EXTRADITION TREATY AND DEFENCE COOPERATION AGREEMENT WITH INDONESIA

EXTRADITION TREATY AND DEFENCE COOPERATION AGREEMENT WITH INDONESIA:

(Implications and issues): 1.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs what are the implications of the extradition treaty signed with Indonesia and whether it will strengthen bilateral ties.

2.

Er Lee Bee Wah asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will explain the issues taken into consideration in the signing of the extradition treaty and defence cooperation agreement with Indonesia.

The Senior Minister of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed) (for the Minister for:

Foreign Affairs): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am replying on behalf of Minister George Yeo who is overseas. I

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will be addressing the Parliamentary Questions submitted by Ms Irene Ng and Ms Lee Bee Wah together.

Mr Speaker: You are taking Question Nos. 1 and 2 together?

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: Yes. Sir, the signing of the Extradition Treaty (ET) and the Defence Cooperation Agreement (DCA) last month was in line with the decision taken by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in October 2005 to negotiate both the ET and DCA in parallel and conclude them as a package.

Since October 2005, there were several rounds of negotiations on the ET and DCA. Officials on both sides worked hard and made progress. Given that both agreements involve many complex issues, significant give-and-take was required on both sides. On 23rd April 2007, the Foreign and Defence Ministers, as well as armed forces chiefs, from both sides met to discuss the outstanding issues in Singapore. In a spirit of compromise and friendship, both sides sorted out their differing positions vis-a-vis the various issues and reached agreement on the ET and DCA as a political package. This means that the two signed Agreements contained a carefully negotiated balance of benefits. These agreements are good for both countries. Now that they have been signed, the next step is for both agreements to be ratified by Singapore and Indonesia through our own procedures. As they are a package, we have agreed that they should come into force together.

Sir, Indonesia, as we all know, is a close neighbour. Our relations are extensive and broad-based. It is therefore in our interest to find opportunities to work with them where we can. The ET and DCA will help lay a strong foundation for further cooperation in the future. The

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ET will strengthen our cooperation with Indonesia in tackling crime and other offences, including acts of terrorism, in accordance with the domestic laws of each country. Similarly, we would like to enhance the enduring defence ties between the SAF and the Indonesian Armed Forces (or TNI) and strengthen the professional bonds and interoperability of the two militaries through the DCA.

When these agreements come into force, relations between Singapore and Indonesia will enter a new phase. But this does not mean that there will be no more bilateral issues. Indeed, signing an ET has removed a bone of contention in bilateral relations but it may also create other problems. For example, there are legal procedures and judicial processes which have to be followed when an extradition request is made. Indonesia's police and judicial processes will be subject to review by our judges and vice versa. It is therefore important that both sides understand this and allow the due process of law in each country to take its course.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is natural that differences in bilateral relations will arise from time to time between close neighbours. We can resolve them together, as long as we take the right perspective against the overall relationship. This should also not stop us from finding ways to resolve these differences or explore new areas of cooperation on a "win-win" basis. The ET and DCA are good examples of how our countries were able to tackle difficult issues and find mutually beneficial solutions. I am therefore confident that Singapore-Indonesia relations will continue to mature and deepen.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong (Tampines): Sir, the Senior Minister of State said that the Extradition Treaty was negotiated in parallel with the Defence Cooperation

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Agreement and concluded as a package. But we have since learned that the DCA has hit some snags, there are several agreements which have not been signed, and there are problems arising from that. Can I ask the Senior Minister of State whether this means that if the DCA and its implementing agreements are not signed as mutually agreed upon earlier, then the ET will be off?

The other question is, why did we rush into signing the ET when the DCA has not been all tied up with all the "i"s dotted and the "t"s crossed?

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: As I have mentioned earlier, there was consensus and agreement between the two leaders of Indonesia and Singapore - Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and President Bambang Yudhoyono - that both will be taken together. So, we are looking forward that both will be ratified. There are some snags in terms of implementation issues, but we are waiting for the Indonesian side to conclude that, and we look forward to signing both together. Our understanding is that, in fact, both will have to be signed together and both will be made applicable at the same time.

Er Lee Bee Wah (Ang Mo Kio): Sir, I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State: since it was signed two months after the sand ban, did we sign it because we were under the pressure of the sand ban? My next question is: what has we sacrificed or compromised in reaching this agreement?

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: I think sacrifices or compromises are part of any negotiations and relations. In the case of Indonesia and Singapore, as I mentioned earlier, in fact, if we work on the basis of compromises and friendship, much can be achieved. But specifically in answer to her question about sand, they are separate matters and are not linked. As I recounted earlier, the decision to negotiate and

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conclude both the ET and DCA as a package was made much earlier in October 2005. The negotiations were already well advanced when land, sand and granite became an issue earlier this year. It was a distraction but not related to these talks.

The Indonesians have repeatedly stated that there is no ban on granite sales. It is the prerogative of the Indonesian government to sell or not sell us sand so long as they comply with the WTO rules. As you all know, and it has been reported before, we have made alternative arrangements for our sand supplies.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: Sir, the Senior Minister of State did not answer the question of why the rush to sign the ET, especially coming at a time when there was pressure over the land issue and sand ban, which might give some the impression that we are bowing to pressure, especially since the DCA has not been signed, sealed and delivered at the same time. Why the rush?

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: To answer that question, there are others who are saying why it has taken so long. We started back in 2005. Many had, in fact, complained as though we were dragging our feet. In fact, when both Ministers and the chiefs of the armed forces met - after the officials had not been able to come to any agreement - they were able to iron out the differences and even come to a conclusion. I do not know whether it was a surprise, but I think it was timely. I do not think the sand and the granite issue which came just before that was the primary contribution towards the signing of the two agreements.

Dr Ong Chit Chung (Jurong): Sir, I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State whether the Extradition Treaty will undermine or, to use his own word, compromise Singapore's position as an

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international financial centre, and whether Indonesians will hesitate to invest, put their money or buy property in Singapore because of this.

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: I think this question is best answered by MOF. But this is the position we have made clear from the very beginning - that we, as a financial centre, stand on our merits and our own credible position as a financial hub. And I do not think the signing of the ET will undermine that position. In fact, on the contrary, I feel it might strengthen our position.