SAND QUARRIES BILL

[Mr SPEAKER in the Chair]

Order for Second Reading read.

5.36 p.m.

The Minister for National Development (Mr Tan Kia Gan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

The purpose of this Bill is to control sand quarries so that they may be operated in a manner which will not create a nuisance or cause damage to an adjoining area. During sand operations, liquid waste is discharged into streams which drain the area, causing them to be silted and blocked up. The blockage of the streams leads to flooding which causes damage to the farmers and villagers living around the area where there are concentrations of sand deposits. These farmers and rural folks have repeatedly complained of the losses they have suffered.

Flooding has been particularly extensive after a heavy rain, and while the Government has taken remedial steps in the past to de-silt the drains, the nuisance will recur unless proper steps are taken to ensure that the operations are conducted in a satisfactory manner. It would be unfair to expect public funds to be utilised for remedial measures solely for the benefit of these operators, but, at the same time, Government does not wish to prohibit sand quarrying operations since sand is an essential material to keep the building industry going. The proper remedy, therefore, is to permit the quarrying to operate under conditions that can be satisfactorily controlled. It may be as well for me to inform the House that complaints from farmers have been coming in year after year. Over the last few years, such floods have caused damage to farmers which could be valued at thousands of dollars.

As far back as 1958, the Rural Board has caused action to be taken under the Municipal Ordinance, and notices were served on the sand operators to require them to abate the nuisance. As a result of this action, the sand operators contributed a sum of $5,200 towards the cost of de-silting. Despite the effort to de-silt and clear the drains and streams, flooding in such areas recurred again in 1959 and 1960. On investigation, it was revealed that the flooding was caused by the drains and canals being choked up with waste from the sand quarries. The Government then took steps to clear the Sungei Api Api and a 60-foot wide canal at Pasir Ris was constructed. This work, however, proved abortive and the canal was chocked up again after a short time.

Sand operations have been going on in many places in Singapore for some years, the principal areas being Tampines, Changi and Bedok. Activities for the last few years have been concentrated at Tampines. In an effort to secure the co-operation of the sand operators, so that their method for the production of sand will not destroy the livelihood of the farmers in the Tampines area, the operators were invited by my Ministry in June this year for discussion, the purpose being to agree on acceptable steps to be taken and for necessary precautionary measures laid down by the Public Works Department and the Health authorities to be complied with to prevent silt from flooding the common drains and streams. The sand operators agreed that they would comply with the requirements of the authorities, and that they would compensate any farmer for losses suffered as a result of sand operations. The quantum of such losses for damage would be determined on the adjudication of a three-man committee, consisting of the farmers' representative, the sand operators' representative and a Ministry official.

In order to prevent further damage to the property of the farmers, steps were taken to obtain an injunction from the High Court to restrain these sand operators temporarily until satisfactory arrangements were made. The sand operators also voluntarily agreed to a payment pro rata among themselves of a sum amounting to some $20,000 as contributions towards the cost of desilting the drains. On the assurance given by the sand operators to abide by the requirements, the farmers were temporarily appeased and no steps were taken to apply to the High Court for continuance of the injunction when it expired on 31st July, 1961. Following the resumption of sand operations, some operators have of late begun to fall down on the undertaking they had given that adequate measures would be taken to prevent nuisance or damage. It is, therefore, necessary, if all the Government's efforts were not to be nullified and the whole issue opened up afresh time and again, that legislation should be introduced to ensure proper control of operations before further damage takes place or serious health hazards arise. There are areas in Changi and Bedok where sand excavations have been going on in the past. Here again, the farmers living in the vicinity have made complaints from Lime to time that the excavations are causing damage to their livestock and their vegetable crops, and polluting their health. New legislation is necessary because most sand quarries stand on land under private ownership over which there is no satisfactory control under existing legislation when such land is used for the purposes of producing sand. In view of the present activity in the building trade, which is likely to increase with the implementation of Government's Four-Year development programme, the demand for sand will continue to arise. Hence, there is every likelihood that the sand operators will step up production activity considerably, giving rise possibly to more damage to the surrounding areas and adversely affecting the farmers, their livestock and crops. It is the responsibility of my Ministry to take steps to ensure that the sand operators work their pits on a properly controlled basis so as not to create health problems or flood or other nuisance.

Sir, the Bill before the House provides that after the coming into force of this Bill, it shall be an offence for anyone to operate a sand quarry without a licence. The grant or renewal of a licence will be given at the discretion of the licensing officer, who shall impose such restrictions and conditions as are necessary for the sand operations to be conducted on a proper basis. To ensure that such conditions are carried out, there is provision for the depositing of security so that, in the event of failure on the part of the licensee to provide remedial measures, such work would be carried out by the licensing officer who may then recover the cost of the work from the security deposited. The Bill will ensure that sand digging and sand washing operations shall not cause any nuisance or damage to neighbouring lands and buildings. There are provisions to require that the licensee shall use only fresh water for his sand operations in view of the possibility of contamination of wells.

There is also provision to prevent the licensee from interfering with the banks of rivers, streams of water courses and to give effect to the proper disposal of earth, dirt or other waste matter from the sand quarry. In the case of these used sand pits, provision is made for them to be fenced in and the necessary precautions taken to prevent danger or damage to life or property.

To avoid any case of possible hardship in special circumstances, the Minister will be empowered to exempt any sand quarry from all or any provisions in the Bill when necessary. There is also provision for appeal to the Minister in the event of any action to grant or refuse to grant, to renew or to suspend or revoke any licence by the licensing officer.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question proposed.

Mr Tee Kim Leng (Pasir Panjang): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister for National Development has today tabled this Bill. But before it was brought up some operators of sand quarries had been prosecuted, and so the minor operators are unable to carry out their work and business. On the other hand, all along the farmers who have suffered damage have not been given compensation. Even in this Bill we do not see any provision for compensation to be made by the operators to the farmers in respect of the damage caused by such operations. It is not stated clearly that compensation will be made accordingly. So, can we say that when this Bill is passed by this House, the interests of the farmers and other vegetable gardeners will be protected by it? I am very doubtful about this.

I also want to know whether this Bill will be able to solve the shortage of sand in the building industry. At present the building industry is expanding very rapidly, but the production of sand is rather slow. There is a reduction in the production of sand. Why? Well, this has come about as a result of the action taken by the Minister for National Development. So I must tell this House that before this Bill was brought up, the Minister for National Development had acted in accordance with some of the provisions in this Bill by prosecuting some operators of sand quarries. As the Minister himself has said, in June this year an injunction was applied for in the High Court of Singapore against certain operators of sand quarries. So we would like to know whether this Bill will be able to bring about something good for the farmers and workers, and what it will do to the building industry in respect of sand production.

Mr Speaker, Sir, never in the history of Singapore have we heard of any shortage of sand in respect of the building industry, lit is only recently, according to the report of the Ministry of National Development, that we have this shortage of sand. As a result, some 1,000 workers have been out of work. Now, who is to be responsible for this? I think the main blame or responsibility should be put on the Minister for National Development for his dealings with the sand quarry operators. Actually the Tampines area contributes 90 per cent in respect of sand production. Recently, because some operators have come to a stop in their business, some 4,000 workers dependent on such operations have been out of work. Some sand quarry operators just carry on their business without any regard to the interest of the farmers. As a result of this, many drains have been choked, water cannot flow freely, and on rainy days there is flooding in this area. As a result of this situation about 100 farmers in this area had to suffer damages and losses. So they went to their representatives, i.e., the Singapore Rural Dwellers' Association, and asked them to complain to the Minister for National Development in the hope that the said Minister would be able to solve their problems and reduce the damage they were suffering. But the Minister for National Development, in dealing with this matter, had, on the one hand, no knowledge of sand quarry operations, and, on the other hand, did not consult the dwellers concerned. He rashly took steps without giving consideration and warning to the sand quarry operators. So when these sand quarry operations were stopped for a month, some 1,000 workers dependent on such operations were put out of work. There was a standstill in the building industry, as a result of which some building construction workers were put out of work as well. Lorry drivers engaged in carrying sand were also put out of work. So I say that this trouble has come about due to lack of experience on the part of the Minister for National Development. We all know that in dealing with any matter, you must take into consideration the interests of all parties concerned. You must also know the true situation. Without knowing the true situation, it is not right to act or make any rash decision. Let us take, for example, these sand operations again. Before any action is taken, the following points should be considered:

1. The 1,000 workers connected with sand quarry operations must be taken into consideration, so that they would not be confronted with the difficulties of unemployment.

2. We must make sure against whom action is to be taken. Action should not be taken against the farmers.

3. Adequate consultation should take place between the Government and the sand quarry workers' representatives so that their interests could be well looked after.

4. Such action before it is taken and when it is taken should not put a stop to the sand quarry operations, which would put the workers connected therewith out of work.

So I can safely say that, as a result of such actions taken by the Minister for National Development, there were some difficulties. He had laid down certain stringent conditions in respect of the sand quarry operations. As a result, minor operators are not able to carry on their business smoothly. So about 200 to 300 workers are out of work or will be out of work. Then as a result of such stringent regulations and conditions, you will have major operators in sand quarries. These people will then be able to monopolise the trade and raise prices as they like.

Mr Speaker: Order. It seems to me the hon. Member is reading something he cannot even read! I do not know whether the hon. Member is making his own speech. But I ask him to try and make a speech and not read too much.

Mr Tee Kim Leng: (In Mandarin): he price of sand has been raised by one-third and consequently building costs have also risen. The taxpayers will have to suffer in the end and so will the poor people.

The third aspect of the problem that I wish to touch upon concerns the farmers whose interests have not been protected by way of compensation. This unilateral action of the Minister for National Development has given rise to more difficulties with no actual solution to the real problem. The problem of sand shortage has not been solved; the unemployment problem of the workers connected with this trade has not been solved; the farmers' interests have not been adequately protected. All these are to be answered by the Minister for National Development. In the meantime, in dealing with the matter, the Minister has disregarded the views of his Parliamentary Secretary.

6.00 p.m.

Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I have heard the lengthy speech of the Member for Pasir Panjang Without knowing what he was talking about, because I could not catch the main point in his speech. I do not know whether he said that our Bill is detrimental to the farmers or to the sand quarry operators. He has not made himself clear in this respect.

The Minister for National Development has tabled this Bill with this main aim, and it has been clearly stated by him. We are trying to do our best and hope that Members opposite will give their valuable views in respect of this Bill so that it will be able to look after the interests of all. But it is a pity that the Members opposite - especially those in the Barisan Sosialis - oppose good and bad things at the same time. They do not seem to have any principle at all in this debate, as they do not try to put their valuable views across. For example, the Member concerned says that the shortage of sand is unprecedented and he does not know the cause. We can tell him that this was not due to our absentmindedness, but because we have had very little rain for a long period. It was because of this that sand quarrying was affected, as sand quarrying is dependent on the supply of water. As a result of this, some workers connected with this work were affected and we received a lot of complaints from these people in the Ministry of National Development. On receipt of such complaints, we investigated the cases and we found that the farmers also suffered a great deal. So the Minister for National Development thought fit to take proper action to deal with this situation. Of course, in the course of this action, some inconvenience and difficulties may have been caused to sand quarrying operations. But we must also realise that, in view of the expanding building industry, we must not put an end to sand quarry operations and that, on the other hand, we must also look after the interest of the farmers. That is why we have this Bill which is in the interest of both the farmers and of the sand quarry operators. We want to ensure that sand quarry operations can be carried out systematically and orderly without causing any interference to the farmers' crops.

So I hope that the Members opposite - especially those in the Barisan Sosialis - will not go against the Bill just for the sake of going against it. They must take into consideration the interest of the people and put across their views accordingly. They can make a contribution to this Bill by telling us how to deal with the situation. But it would appear from the speech of the Member for Pasir Panjang that he did not write it himself. I do not know where he got the speech from, because it appears to me that he could not even read his speech properly. We must try to say things which come from our hearts and we must not do otherwise.

Miss Fung Yin Ching (Stamford): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the explanation of the Member for Delta seems to be all right on the surface, but I have a feeling that she seems to want to represent the Minister for National Development. It seems that she is more qualified than the Minister and the Government should appoint her as the Minister for National Development.

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, the speech made by the Member from the Barisan Sosialis, the Member for Pasir Panjang, is not as absurd as it might seem. First, he wishes the interest of the farmers to be protected. Then he wants to protect the interest of the sand quarry operators. Then he wants to protect the sand itself. Then he wants to protect the building operators. Then he wants to protect the lorry-drivers. Then he wants to protect all the workers connected with the sand quarry operations.

On the face of it, Mr Speaker, Sir, quite a few of them seem to me, anyway, to be conflicting interests which you cannot protect. Sir, I asked my colleague sitting on my left which particular division the spokesman for the Barisan Sosialis represented. I was told that he is the Member for Pasir Panjang. So on that basis, Sir, it was quite a rational speech that he made. What he is trying to persuade the Minister to do is to give up the pits at Tampines and go to Pasir Panjang.

Mr Teo Hock Guan (Changi): Mr Speaker, Sir, in principle, I do not oppose this Bill. The purpose of introducing it is to control sand-washing operations in the rural areas.

Sir, this Bill, in fact, should have been introduced in this House in the early part of 1960. If it had been introduced then, then there would not have been so much trouble about sand-washing operations in Singapore. But the Government paid no attention to the sufferings of the people, and it completely ignored the opinions of Assemblymen. As a result, places in sand quarries are always flooded when rain falls and people suffer a loss of their domestic animals and their properties are damaged for which they get no compensation. Recently, sand-washing operations had to come to a standstill and quite a number of sand-workers lost their jobs.

Sir, in 1959, I did ask the ex-Minister for National Development to control sand-washing operations, and he did send some members of the Primary Production Department to investigate; but nothing was done. In 1960, this matter was always brought up for discussion in the Rural and Urban Services Advisory Committee, but the Government did nothing about it. At the beginning of 1961, I wrote a memorandum to the present Minister for National Development requesting him to license sand-washing operators but I received not a word of reply from him. In the middle of 1961 - I was a P.A.P. Assemblyman then - I again wrote a memorandum to him criticising him for ignoring my memorandum and delaying a settlement of the problem, and I again received no reply.

Sir, in page 3 of the Bill, clause 8 reads:

'No licence shall be granted unless the Licensing Officer is satisfied that the use of the premises as a sand quarry will be unlikely -

(a) to cause any nuisance or damage to occupants of adjoining or neighbouring land or buildings;'.

Sir, damage caused by sand-washing is not always near the sand quarries. Damage can be caused to a person living one mile away. For example, Sir, if one person has a farm which is flooded because a stream is blocked up by sediment washed down -

Mr Byrne: On a point of information, Sir.

Mr Teo Hock Guan resumed his seat.

Mr Byrne: The Member for Changi has overlooked paragraph (b) of the same clause - the point he is making here - which reads:

'No licence shall be granted unless the Licensing Officer is satisfied that the use of the premises as a sand quarry will be unlikely -

(b) to cause depreciation in the value or amenity of adjoining or neighbouring land or buildings;'.

So damage to adjoining or neighbouring lands and buildings is also covered by this clause.

Mr Teo Hock Guan: Mr Speaker, Sir, I will come to that. Sir, as I said, because the stream is blocked up by sediment washed down from sand-washing operations, has the Government thought that the farmer has a right to claim for compensation? But we cannot see any clause under which people can claim for compensation.

Sir, in clauses 9 to 14, provision is made to prevent flooding. But the provision is not positive. Also it is inadequate. Sir, compensation must be given to those whose property and domestic animals are affected by sand-washing operations.

Sir, we cannot see any clause in the Bill where farmers or any person affected can claim compensation. We also cannot see any clause in this Bill to protect the farmers. I hope the Government will see to it, otherwise there will be much trouble.

Sir, the Member for Delta talks about sand-washing operations. She does not know what is sand-washing operation. She has not even seen how sand-washing operation is carried out.

6.17 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development (Mr Chor Yeok Eng): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, the Minister has very clearly explained the Sand Quarries Bill. I fully support this Bill because we know that anything we do must have its merits. Members of the Barisan Sosialis oppose this and that, but they have not put forward any principles. They object for the sake of objecting, and the Member for Delta has touched on this very clearly.

As regards the speech of the Member for Pasir Panjang. the Member for Farrer Park has touched on it - that the first part of his speech contradicts the latter part. If he knows something about construction, he will not say anything like that. The building construction industry has been expanding over the past few years. Let me tell him that in the building industry not only is there a shortage of sand and bricks, but there is also a shortage of other building materials. Now, what are the causes of the shortage of building materials?

Mr Speaker: Order. I will not allow that, as we might have a debate on building materials. Will the Parliamentary Secretary confine himself to sand quarries?

Mr Chor Yeok Eng: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I just want to repeat what I have said just now - that as regards the question of compensation our Minister has said very clearly that we have a committee comprising representatives from the sand quarries industry and officials from the Ministry to discuss this. This is the proper way to go about it. This matters concerns the farmers and the sand quarry operators, and the Ministry officials act as go betweens to reconcile their differences. I am sure sand production can be stepped up. I will be repeating what has been said, and therefore I will not touch on it.

I am disappointed as regards the Assembly as it is being made use of as a place where jokes are exchanged. I hope that Members from the Barisan Sosialis will change their attitude towards debates. They should not take the Assembly as a place where they can joke. This is my sincere hope and I hope that other Members have the same feeling.

6.21 p.m.

Mr Ong Chang Sam (Choa Chu Kang): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I was not here just now during part of the debate. But I heard my colleague the Member for Changi and also the Minister for National Development. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development said that we in the Barisan Sosialis were joking. This is wrong.

The Sand Quarries Bill before us is a very important Bill and deserves our close attention. In principle, we do not oppose it. We do not say this Bill is bad. We just want to give our opinion to the Government and point out that the Minister for National Development has so mishandled this question that a lot of people have suffered. But the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister said that we were joking and being lighthearted about it. He also touched on the question of compensation. The Member for Changi has said that there is no provision in the Bill for compensation to be paid to farmers or others whose properties are damaged by sand-washing operations, and that the operators must compensate those who are affected. This is what we are concerned about - why was this Bill brought up? The reason is to protect the welfare of those affected by sand quarry operations. If the Government does not protect them, what is the use of bringing up this Bill? If the Bill cannot solve this problem, then it is useless. If there is no provision for compensation, then it will lead to trouble.

Just now the Parliamentary Secretary mentioned that the Government had formed a three-man committee to deal with the problem of compensation. That was a good constructive move. We do not oppose it. But what we are concerned about is whether this three-man committee can really shoulder this task, and whether its recommendations can have any effect at all. That is what the Assembly should pay attention to. Let me tell the Parliamentary Secretary this: what is the use of establishing this three-man committee? When it was established, it recommended certain conditions for compensation to those affected by the sand-washing operations. But the sand operators paid no heed to its decisions, and the three-man committee had not enforced compliance with its decisions, and so no compensation was paid to the farmers affected. From what I know, the three-man committee mentioned this to the Minister for National Development, and he summoned the sand operators to his Ministry to talk it over. But what was the result? Only the Minister can now tell us whether the sand operators did turn up in his office or not. The final result was that the sand operators paid no heed to the committee and did not turn up at the Ministry. They considered the summons of the Minister as something insignificant. This shows how the three-man committee dealt with this problem. It is a great disappointment. I believe after this first failure, there will be successive failures in future. The reason is this: if there is no provision in the Bill to provide for compensation to the farmers, then the interests of the farmers cannot be looked into.

Mr Speaker. Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary has said just now that we oppose every Bill. This allegation is not true. We shall be happy if we can be of any use or help to the Government to resolve all difficulties and problems. We can assure them that we shall try our best to help them solve all kinds of difficulties and problems, and that they should not consider our suggestions meaningless and think that we are only trying to embarrass them by putting up such suggestions. That is a wrong attitude on their part.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary has also touched on the matter of building materials. I do not want to touch on it. What I want to say is that Government's policy in regard to sand quarrying is full of contradictions. We know that the Work Brigade is shouldering the responsibility of sand quarrying. The usual method of sand quarrying is -

Mr Speaker: Order. I wonder if those details come within the general principles of this Bill. We are discussing the general principles of this Bill.

Mr Ong Chang Sam: (In Mandarin): What I want to say has something to do with the principles of the Bill. Members of the Work Brigade are carrying out sand operations. The usual method of operation is to make use of the water from the rivers, by drawing the water into the sand quarry to wash away certain sediment to get the sand. The Minister has also said that some wells should be dug in order to store the sediment. But then Government's action in this respect is a kind of mockery. On the one hand, the Government is carrying out water rationing and, on the other hand, the water used in sand quarrying is pipe-water. I want to know from the Minister whether, according to his suggestion. there will be no damage or no bad effects as a result of their making use of pipe-water to wash sand. I want to ask him whether this kind of operation will not be more costly, using pipe-water rather than using water from a stream or river for sand operation.

The Sand Quarries Bill tabled by the Government in the Assembly today comes about only because in May this year the Rural People's Association responded to the Minister's request by giving their views and suggestions as to how to resolve the problem of sand quarrying, which has caused much damage and losses to the farmers in the affected surrounding areas. Therefore, I want to ask the Minister whether in drawing up this Bill he has consulted the Rural People's Association. I hope that in future, when the Government deals with this kind of problem, it will consult all the people concerned. The Government should consult the rural people's organisations before any steps are taken. At the same time, I hope that after the passage of this Bill, those people and farmers living in the rural areas will, in fact, have their interests safeguarded.

6.34 p.m.

Mr Speaker: Mr Tan Kia Gan, in reply.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: Sir, the Member for Pasir Panjang, the Member for Choa Chu Kang and the Member for Changi. three Members in the Barisan Sosialis front -

Mr Teo Hock Guan: We live in Tampines.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: They live in Tampines. Before this Bill was brought into the House, with the exception of the Member for Changi who wrote a memorandum to me towards the end of 1960, they never brought up this question or paid any attention to the sufferings of the farmers in their constituencies.

Mr Teo Hock Guan rose -

Mr Speaker: Point of order?

Mr Teo Hock Guan: No, point of explanation.

Mr Speaker: If the Minister will give way.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: I said with the exception of the Member for Changi - [Interruption].

Mr Speaker: Let us get on with the debate.

Mr Ong Chang Sam: On a point of clarification, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Minister will not give way. Mr Tan, let us get on with it.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: The Member for Changi wrote to me. He is very good for this sort of thing, Sir. He just writes a note to you and expects you to do everything. Sir, I have not lived in that constituency. I do not know the details of the damages to farms from sand operations. They are the people who have been living there for years. Yet they never brought -

An hon. Member: Because you are in charge.

Mr Speaker: This debate is getting "untidy". Mr Tan.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: Sir, when the Member for Pasir Panjang talked about this Bill, he was clowning. The Member for Farrer Park did not want to use that word. My Parliamentary Secretary took objection to it. That is why he said Barisan Members are not responsible at all when they made statements in this Assembly.

Coming back to the Member for Changi, Sir. He wrote this note to me. Admittedly at that time I just became the Minister for National Development. I was taking over from the Member for Hong Lim. Later on he wrote to me again. But this time I took notice of it. I think it was only a matter of one or two months. Then I did ask him, Sir, to come and see me and discuss the matter.

Mr Teo Hock Guan: No, you did not ask me.

Mr Speaker: Order. I have already called some Members of the Barisan Sosialis to order many times. If they do not listen to the Chair, then I will have to take very serious action under the Standing Orders. Mr Minister.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: Sir, to understand the position about the damage that has been caused to farmers through the years by sand operations, I asked the Member for Changi to see me to discuss the details. Possibly what I should have done, as I have done on many occasions after understanding the position in certain cases, was to go with him and have a look into these matters. I did this after representatives from the farmers saw me. Sir, whenever we look for the Member for Changi, it is very difficult to find him. I asked him to see me. He never turned up. I looked for him. He could not be found.

An hon. Member: The Special Branch!

Mr Tan Kia Gan: Well, they will probably use the Special Branch!

Coming to the point about these three Assemblymen who are living in the Tampines constituency. After repeated discussions, I made many trips to Tampines, seeing the sand operators, seeing the farmers themselves from house to house, and I came to the conclusion, from the mouths of the farmers themselves, that they had no faith in these three people who have been living there -

Mr Ong Chang Sam rose -

Mr Speaker: On a point of clarification?

Mr Ong Chang Sam: Yes.

Mr Speaker: If the Minister will give way. The Minister is not giving way.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: Sir, instead of wasting the time of the Assembly talking about the Barisan Assemblymen, I had better get back to the Bill. Sir, the P.A.P. Government has the welfare of the State, the interests of the farmers and justice at heart.

The Sand Quarries Bill has been deigned to ensure that the sand operators may continue producing sand for profit and, at the same time, to provide the necessary safeguards and controls and prevent damage from being caused to the farmers and other rural folks as a result of the sand operations. The complaints of the rural folks, the farmers and the fishermen abut the damage that they had suffered because of the sand operations are of long standing, but the previous Governments, because of vested interests or for reasons best known to themselves, had not looked into the grievances of the farmers.

Mr Speaker: Order. Might I remind the Minister that he is replying to the debate? Therefore, he cannot make another Second Reading speech. In replying to the debate, he must answer the points raised by the speakers.

Mr Tan Kia Gan: The complaints of these rural folks, farmers and fishermen were brought to the Member for Hong Lim when he was Minister, when he was responsible for rural matters. But again the farmers and the rural people received no redress. The sand operators carried on with their operations, doing more damage and making themselves a nuisance. This resulted in my Ministry taking drastic action to apply for an injunction from the High Court to stop them from carrying out sand operations that would cause damage to the rural residents. The Bill now before the House provides all the necessary safeguards to ensure that damage to the farmers will be prevented or minimised.

It is also intended that the regulations made under the provisions of this Bill will help the farmers to establish liability for the damage caused to their property. Hitherto, it was not easy for the farmers to make any claim for compensation even though they had suffered considerable damage as a result of the flooding caused by sand operators. It is intended to seek the assistance of the Legal Aid Bureau to provide the farmers and rural folks with the necessary help in their claims for compensation, should any damage arise from sand operations.

There is also the further possibility of the Government doing the work of desilting and recovering the cost of such work from the security deposit which must be put down by the sand operators with the licensing officer before a licence is issued. In the event of the operators not abiding by the rules of the game, it will be possible for the Government to withhold their licences and to prevent them from operating. There have been occasions when mischievous operators have tried to frustrate Government's attempt to reach an amicable settlement between the farmers and the sand opera, tors. These sand operators have only themselves to blame if their licences are suspended or revoked. If they play the game according to the rules, they will find that the Government is just and fair. But if they think that they can get away with it because there are loop-holes in the existing legislation, they are sadly mistaken, for the Bill is specifically designed to prevent mischievous and mercenary sand operators from doing harm and damage to farmers and fishermen,, all because of their selfish private motives. We are aware that the farmers have not been able to obtain justice because of their lack of acquaintance with the process of law and also the intricacies of legal procedure. But there is little doubt that they understand what is justice, and can differentiate between what is right and wrong. It is doubtful, however, because of the lack of evidence, whether compensation for damage that has been done previously by the sand operators can be obtained from them. But the Government will continue to pursue this matter and hope that the three-man committee who has been agreed between both farmers and sand operators will be able to come to some satisfactory finding. Mr Speaker, Sir, we are doing this for the helpless farmers and fishermen who had for years suffered at the hands of sand operators, landowners and vested interests. For those who think that they can get away with their mischief, the Government will use whatever there is in its power as provided in this Bill to prevent them from causing further damage and nuisance. To those who abide by the law and ensure that, in seeking after profit they will not in any way adversely affect their neighbours' property, the Bill provides a fair and just way for them to continue their occupation.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Assembly.

Assembly immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.-[Mr Tan Kia Gan].

Bill considered in Committee; reported, without amendment; read a Third time and passed.