ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1972 TO 31ST MARCH, 1973

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

5.47 p.m.

Head 0801 (cont.) -

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, to clear up any misunderstanding that may have arisen during the debate just now, I would like to say that the Ministry of Education will, of course, continue to conduct these in-service courses which carry bonuses, because the exigencies of service may require it with the introduction of technical education and greater emphasis on technical education. It is possible that some teachers who have been in the academic streams will have to undergo special courses for retraining, and for which they may have to spend quite a long time to acquire the skills to be proficient enough to teach certain subjects in the technical stream. So, therefore, these Bonus courses will continue to be conducted.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I am indeed very grateful to the Minister for Education for having pointed out that more courses along such lines will be conducted. I am also grateful that he has clarified the points I have raised just now.

Mr Ho Kah Leong (Jurong): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to see that the Minister for Education is now able to answer all queries with ease and in a calm manner. I hope he will have the same confidence when we come to the next amendment.

In the past few years our education system has been undergoing tremendous changes. Besides the major change from academic-bias education to technical-bias education, there are many other changes. However, I am sorry to say that some of these changes are indecisive in nature, while some others are dependent on the change of Ministers. Whether the changes are all for the good, we will have to wait for history to tell. Because of the speed of the changes, sometimes even people in the educational circles feel at a loss. Thus, I wonder whether adequate and prudent consideration had been given before the changes were made. For example, a few years ago, it is required to use English in teaching Mathematics and Science in Chinese schools, and the teaching of History, Geography and Civics in Chinese in the English schools, and so on. However, before long the directive is not rigidly enforced and principals are given the discretion to decide. At the moment, it is not certain in what language textbooks are to be used for Mathematics and Science in Chinese secondary schools. The reason given for the abolition of geography and history as examination subjects for the combined primary school leaving examination is "to raise the interest of the students in these subjects so that the students may not have to learn by rote for the examination. Thus the teachers will be better able to use their teaching methods freely to obtain greater effect in order to achieve the aims of education as expected." This was the reply given to the Chinese Middle School Teachers' Union by the Ministry of Education and it was published on 1st March this year in the Chinese newspapers. If that is the case, why not abolish the combined primary school leaving examination? Why not let us do away with all this, so that teachers may be able to effect better teaching methods to achieve the expected aims of education?

Another example is the use of so-called "wordless new syllabus". It may be all right to experienced teachers and bright students. But if the teachers are without any experience and the pupils are backward, then it will amount to nothing, whether the students are attending school or not. I have come across certain pupils who, after attending primary school for two years, are still not able to write their own names. Sir, I am not being very archaic and I am not against educational reforms, but the question is whether these reforms are good for our education. Here, I would like to suggest to the Minister that before the implementation of any change in the education system or policy, we should consider the views and opinions of all the people concerned. We should not merely go by the reports of experts or the liking of some. In case of any failure of the reformation, the losers will always be our innocent students. It will also adversely affect the quality and interest of our nation in the long run.

Now, let me touch on the question of the teaching of second language in Chinese schools. All along Chinese schools have been using English as a second language. They have been striving hard to promote the learning of English by increasing the sessions or by other means. Some schools even go to the extent of providing additional English teachers out of their own funds to teach the English language. However, all these efforts seem to have achieved not much success. Basically, I think it is because both the textbooks and the teachers are far from ideal. Generally, not every English teacher in Chinese schools is properly trained in the teaching of the second language. There is great mobility of such teachers too. Some pre-university level classes are taught by teachers with only a Cambridge School Certificate. It is necessary to have trained teachers and to have new textbooks compiled to meet the needs and background of our local situation in order to meet the actual requirement for a better standard of English in Chinese schools.

Sir, I would like to raise a final question for the Minister's consideration. That is the abolition of the post allowance to school Vice-Principals. In October last, the Teachers' Unions had reached an agreement with the Ministry of Education on the readjustment of salary structure. To be fair, the Ministry should not change the substance and spirit of the agreement by acting unilaterally. How can the post allowance of Vice-Principals be entirely abolished in the course of the readjustment after it has been implemented for so many years? I would like the Minister to explain this.

Mr Ho See Beng: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is praiseworthy to note that the Ministry of Education is continually making efforts to improve the quality of education. The recent decision to abolish examinations in History and Geography in the primary schools is an example of such effort. However, this decision has been questioned in some quarters and the validity of some of the criticisms merits close attention by the Ministry.

The main reason for abolishing these examinations seems to be the heavy learning load on children and the lack of time or the teacher to cover the syllabus for these subjects. The pressure of time in the learning of these subjects has caused students to commit to memory a mass of facts which have no meaning to them, who only present them out of context. With History and Geography becoming non-examination subjects, it is hoped that children will be able to learn at their own leisure, thus ensuring a comprehensive grasp of the subjects in their totality so that learning becomes meaningful and directional.

However, the mere abolition of examinations on these subjects may not help to achieve this objective. Children in the Primary School Leaving Examination classes tend to be over-examination conscious, and may not pay due attention and interest to non-examination subjects. This frame of mind applies with equal truth to the teachers teaching in these classes. So it may perhaps be more feasible to revise the syllabi of these subjects by reducing their content so that they do not impose a burden upon the children's capacity for learning. However, if it is intended to carry through with the decision to suspend examinations, then this should be confined only to the P.S.L.E. classes. Examinations in these subjects should continue in the lower standards in which these subjects are taught. An overall suspension of these examinations may lead to its total neglect in the other extreme and defeat the very purpose for which it is intended to achieve. I think the Minister for Education will agree with me that history is an important subject in our school curriculum for it records the events of a nation's past. If students do not know the events of our nation's past, then there is hardly any chance to build a nation's future. And more so, our future generation will not be able to know, for instance, who is the Minister for Education in the year 1972! Whether or not there is merit in abolishing examinations on history, I strongly urge the Minister for Education to seriously consider it before taking steps to implement this policy.

6.00 p.m.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, during the last Budget session, I touched on the integrated school system. I regret that even now there are very few schools that can be truly said to be integrated schools. Many schools display signboards to say that they are integrated schools but, in fact, they are completely segregated schools. Some of these Government integrated schools are separated by language, the English stream occupying one half of the building while the Chinese stream occupies the other half. Even in the field of sports, the two streams are separated. It is further disappointing to note that segregation exists in the English stream where the students are separated by race. Chinese students are put in different classes while Tamil and Malay students are put together in one class. The excuse for this is second language. I wonder how the second language can be used as an excuse for these students to be segregated throughout their secondary school career, when it is the Government's intention and policy to integrate the people of different races. This is a very pressing problem. May I ask the Minister for Education to look into this matter as soon as possible before further damage is done in our schools?

It is commendable on, the part of the Government to lay emphasis on bilingualism, which has been long overdue. It is true that bi-lingualism or bi-lingualism can make our citizens more tolerant and to achieve a better understanding of each other's cultures and traditions. But I wonder if we have sufficient teachers who are themselves bi-lingual. May I suggest that emphasis be laid on persuading teachers to be bi-lingual themselves. It is through their understanding of the complexities or problems faced by the other races that they will be able to impart their views of tolerance on the younger generation. At present, we find teachers educated in one medium only and, therefore, conversant only in one language, like living in cocoons. These teachers are quite often insulted from ignorance of their own problems, customs, traditions. The aesthetic qualities found in a knowledge of a language other than their own are not much of an asset to Singapore.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, an option was given to the various schools to teach Mathematics and Science in the language they prefer, largely because there was insufficient staff to teach these subjects in English in a Chinese-medium school, and as a result we found that the standard of Mathematics and Science began to fall. About a year ago, I announced that when sufficient staff has been trained in the T.T.C, and are available to teach Mathematics and Science, we will make it compulsory to teach these two subjects in English in Chinese schools.

Sir, I am afraid the Member for Jurong really made a wild and sweeping statement when he said that many children who have been in school for two years cannot write their names. I know there are always black sheep to be found in a group of people and probably we also have our share of retarded children among the young ones. However, if it is really true that these students cannot write their names after two years of schooling, I think what they need is not so much a teacher or help from the Education Ministry, but help from the psychologists. However, I am sure that such cases are, few and far between, and if they should come to the notice of the Member for Jurong, I would ask him to appeal to the Ministry of Health for assistance.

Sir, on the question of incorporating the allowance of the Vice-Principal into the new salary scale, it may also interest and please him to know that we have written to the Ministry of Finance on this subject. This was a point which was probably overlooked by both the Union and the Ministry during the negotiations. Anyway, we are trying to rectify this. The final decision will have to depend upon the Ministry of Finance, though I can assure him that the Ministry of Education will advocate the incorporation of this allowance, because we think that there is a case to be made.

I am very glad that the Member for Bras Basah has realised, or agreed, that it will be a good thing to do away with examinations in History and Geography in the P.S.L.E. If this is so, and if his own reasoning has led him to this conclusion, I think it will lead him to the fact that we should abolish this examination in the primary schools. Therefore, I cannot understand why, on the one hand, he considers that it is advisable. in order to make the students less examination-orientated, to abolish the P.S.L.E, examination, but on the other hand to continue with the examination of these subjects in the primary schools at the lower levels. Anyway, I am of the opinion, though I am not a professional educator, that it is no use talking about the significance of History or the importance of Geography, if children do not understand what they read. I think our first priority should be to teach and allow children to get a firm grasp of the language or languages. That is the reason why I thought, after consulting professional educators, that we should take History and Geography as part of a language lesson. Although there is no examination for the two subjects, part of the information and facts which they read and gather from the History or Geography textbooks would be required when they sit for their language examinations. This would also allow the teachers more freedom in approaching the subject and to make it more interesting. So it is not a question of free-for-all for the teachers to do what they like and ignore the subjects. But we hope that, by making both History and Geography non-examination subjects, they would be made more interesting and more pleasant for the child to learn.

Sir, all of us, including the Member for Anson, would like to see actual integration taking place in the schools. But I think it is too much to expect a miracle to be performed in five years. and to see all our people mingling freely. The barrier to integration lies in the ability to communicate in a common language. We want to integrate them by making them multi-lingual. Therefore, it is not true to say that instead of encouraging integration, the Ministry is discouraging it by putting pupils of different races into different classes, i.e., the Tamil and Malay students are in one class and the Chinese students in the other classes - students are only put in the same class when they take a second language. For instance, if the Tamil and Malay students are studying either Tamil or Malay, then, wherever possible, we put them in the same class. I think all the teachers and principals are aware of this integration policy. So I do not think the Member for Anson has got the right information. There is no segregation in the way that he seems to think.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I think I have covered most of the points. But if there are any points which I may have left out, probably Members can remind me.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I am glad to know that the Minister for Education has seriously discussed matters with us here. However, there is one point which he has overlooked, and that is the question of raising the standard of English in Chinese schools. I would like to hear his views on this.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to express the hope that the Minister for Education will enlighten us on the present policy of the dollar-for-dollar grant-in-aid for aided schools in the rural areas. I have discovered that several schools in the rural areas have to rebuild their schools, but they have not been able to obtain this dollar-for-dollar grant in aid or any capital grant. Now, if the Board of Directors of the school or the school authorities do not understand the procedure in applying for this dollar for dollar grant-in-aid, I wonder whether the Minister will consider giving more information to such people.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on a particular point on the post-allowance for Vice-Principals which the Minister, in his reply, had left out. He mentioned that this allowance was possibly a point his officials and the unions had missed in their negotiations. I would like to tell him that that is not so, because the principles enunciated in the agreement are very clearly spelt out and they cover them. May I suggest that someone in the Finance Ministry has messed it up.

Mr Lim Kim San: I will not quarrel with the Member for Moulmein about that. Coming first to the Member for Paya Lebar, let me assure him that there is no change in the policy of giving a dollar-for-dollar grant to aided schools. Where he has difficulty. I would say that it is largely because the management committee has probably experienced difficulty in raising the requisite amount, which they will have to raise in order to continue the projects which they have in hand. Or it could be that, as I have said earlier, the school is likely to he resettled, or that the area is marked for further development so that it would be wise not to spend further money rebuilding and repairing the school because it would have to be demolished.

Sir, with regard to the Member for Jurong on how to improve the teaching of a second language, we are trying to supplement or give further sessions in English as second language by opening classes in the afternoons, so that those who really need it will have the opportunity to spend more time on the study of the language. But here again, I think it depends on whether we can evolve a suitable system to teach English as a second language, or Chinese as a second language for that matter because of the special content of our society. This is where professionals like the Members for Jurong and Paya Lebar can help if they will just get their unions to consider what is the best approach under the special circumstances. Anyway, the Research Officers in the Ministry of Education are exercising their minds on this matter and possibly we may come up with a new syllabus and new methods. It could be something of the type which was considered a great success in America and which is now telecast over our T.V. But I do not consider this method to be exactly appropriate here, because it deals with people who already know how to speak English, and moreover it deals with adults. Anyway, this is food for thought for the professionals in the Ministry of Education. I hope they will be able to come to some conclusions, so that we can have a syllabus appropriate to our surroundings arid so make it easier for our students to acquire a knowledge of English, Malay. Chinese or Tamil as a second language without too much sweat; though in the end it comes to sweating on the part of the students before they can grasp a command of the language.

6.15 p.m.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Sir, perhaps when I moved the amendment and spoke on the expenses of uniforms for students in the uniformed groups. I did not make myself clear. If I remember correct, the Minister mentioned that all such uniforms are provided free And he has also said that I was perhaps misinformed. I want a clarification, to make clear on what I have said, and also to listen to the Minister's further views on free uniforms,

If I am correctly informed, uniforms are provided free in the case of members in N.C.C. that is, the National Cadet Corps of the Army and the Police. However, the uniformed groups in schools are not confined to these two categories alone. There are other uniformed groups, for instance, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides, the Red Cross, the Boys' Brigade, the St. John's Ambulance Brigade and, most important of all, the school bands which we are very keen on advocating. As I have said earlier on, I speak with some experience as I have children in schools. I have said that there are many schools which provide these uniforms free of charge, on a loan basis. However, there are also some schools where the children have to buy the uniforms themselves. It is all right for me to buy uniforms for my children, but there are some people who cannot afford to buy them. This is where I think the Minister said that the school management committees are even looking into the possibility of providing free lunches if students have to stay behind for technical education. This is a welcome move. Perhaps we can extend this privilege by providing free uniforms so that we do not confine children from the lower income group to the N.C.C, of the Police or the Army. If they have talent and if they are interested, they can join the school hand. It is exorbitant to buy uniforms, especially those for the school band. I know this from experience. Can I have the Minister's clarification on this issue?

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, if school bands are encouraged by the schools and form part of the school curriculum, then uniforms are provided completely free. I would not know whether Scout uniforms are given free, but I know for certain that needy students who join the Boys' Brigade or Boy Scouts are given free uniforms. Anyway, all the N.C.C, uniforms are given completely free. In the case of Scouts group, where the Troop belongs to the school, free uniforms are probably provided. If it is not free, then it is a remnant of the old custom. Whether or not the school management committees will provide free uniforms, I do not know. As far as the Ministry of Education is concerned, we have provided free uniforms for the different categories of uniformed groups which I have stated. Much as we like, I will not make promises just now, because finance is not in the hands of the Ministry of Education. It has to come from the Ministry of Finance. There are many aspects of the problem which must be looked into before we can provide free uniforms for the uniformed groups, like the Boys' Brigade, Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. And I say it again that in the case of the N.C.C., which is encouraged by the Ministry of Education, uniforms are completely free, For sports too, jerseys, shorts, boots and spikes are supplied completely free if the students are members of the school team. In cases where these items are not supplied free, the poor students can apply for and be given aid,

Mr N. Govindasamy: I thank the Minister for his elaboration. I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong -

(2) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1003.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Mr Sia Khoon Seong, amendment (3)*

• Amendment (3), standing in the names of Messrs Sia Khoon Seong, Tay Boon Too, Yeo Choo Kok and Ho Kah Leong, reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: I am not moving. Sir.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005*.

I have said just now that even if I were allowed to speak for one whole day on the question of education, I might not be able to finish expressing all my views. However, let me briefly touch on some problems of education which require urgent attention. My colleagues and I, who are in the teaching profession, are of the opinion that the numerous educational seminars organised by the specialist inspectors were not very well managed. There were too many. In the first term of this year alone there were seminars for Primary I and II revised syllabus for Mathematics, the Primary III and IV revised syllabus for Physical Education, the Primary III and IV revised syllabus for Music, etc. All these so-called seminars were of two or three hours' duration only. In these seminars, the specialist inspectors merely took out their notes and rattled them off, and that was the end of it. However, the teachers who had to attend these seminars, especially those who come from the rural areas are experiencing some difficulties. As soon as their schools were dismissed at about 12.50 p.m., they had to take a quick lunch, rush off to catch a bus and should within one and a half hours reach their destination. The seminars would begin at 2.30 p.m. They were in such great haste that when they reached their destination they were panting like dogs. The seminars were of two or three hours' duration. I doubt whether these seminars will help the teachers in familiarising themselves with the new teaching methods and whether any real objectives can be achieved. Moreover, most of the primary school teachers are not specialist teachers. They should be able to teach all subjects. The subjects taught by them are not the same every year. Sometimes before they are conversant with a certain subject they are asked to attend a seminar. We can imagine the outcome of such a seminar. As for those teachers who come from the small schools, they have to teach many subjects in different classes. Therefore, it is very likely that they will be asked to attend seminars on various subjects. Under such circumstances, it is not possible to expect these teachers to perform their duties well and to benefit from such seminars. Hence, the main objective of the seminars was lost.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no limit to learning. It is the duty of a teacher to keep himself abreast of the latest trend in his particular field. He must keep himself informed of the latest knowledge. The theory of education cannot be studied in two or three hours, A teacher has to spend a lot of time studying the methods of teaching. Whether or not the methods of teaching are suitable will depend on the specific school in which he teaches. I am of the opinion that the seminars should be well planned. They should be conducted during the long vacation period. They should last at least a few days. The discussions should be held in a systematic manner. The results of the discussions, including the teachers' reactions, should be considered, and any proposals made should be implemented. It is only logical to do so. It is impossible to discuss a subject within three hours at a seminar. To my mind this is only a waste of time and effort.

Sir, let me touch on a different problem which has become quite common in Singapore, but which has not been solved. I am referring to the allegations of members of the public against public officers. We live in a democratic country and the people have every right to censure any corrupt officials or to make any constructive criticism against certain aspects of the Government's policy. They are allowed to exercise such rights. However, some of the allegations are groundless and are not based on facts. Some of them are mere frame-ups. Such allegations are usually made in the form of anonymous letters. On receipt of such letters, the department concerned will carry out an investigation and if there is any truth in the allegation, the officer will be punished. If not, then that is the end of the matter. We can imagine the mental torture the alleged officer has to undergo when an investigation is being conducted, and the effect it might have on his reputation. However, the person who makes an untruthful allegation has achieved his purpose, that is, malicious defamation of a certain official, and is allowed to go unpunished. Such procedures in dealing with the complaints will result in the victimisation of these officers.

Mr Speaker, Sir, those in the teaching profession are very particular about their good name. When dealing with such complaints, the Ministry of Education should follow a rational procedure. Any letter of complaint which does not bear any real names and addresses should not be dealt with.

6.30 p.m.

The Chairman: Your time is up, Mr Tay.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not want to talk on the problem of policies. I merely want to touch on the technique of implementing our policies. Our policy of multi-lingualism is a wise and farsighted one and has won international acclaim. However, from the views expressed by other Backbenchers, it seems that they are not entirely satisfied with its implementation, and that something has gone wrong somewhere.

Our students are not fluent not only in their mother tongue but also in their second language. This might be due to the fact that our Government is more concerned about fostering science and technology, thereby resulting in the neglect of the languages. Subjects such as the humanities have been neglected. A certain Chinese press recently advertised for translators. There were about 20 applicants and the result of the interview was that the applicants were not proficient in their second language or even in their first language. And these were graduates. This shows that there is no proper training in the second language. In the Universities, there are courses in translation. There are also language laboratories. However, such courses appear to be mere frills, not being put to good effect. By themselves, they are not adequate to train our pupils' ability in languages and translation, There will be more and more scope for translators, as translation has become a profession. There may be language specialists in the higher institutions who are not fully utilised and as our language teachers have not been given any special training, may I suggest to the Minister to set up a specialist language training course for our language teachers. We can get the T.T.C, to make use of the language laboratories in the universities to train them. The T.T.C, can organise training in these labs for our language teachers at all levels and from all streams. There are many language teaching scholars who had been trained abroad and they have been posted to teach simple language classes, Thus, their talent is little used. The authorities concerned have not fully made use of their ability and talent, which can be fully used to train our language teachers. Such scholars should be properly utilised by the Ministry. There should also be theoretical courses in language teaching so as to enhance the standard of teaching of languages.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to touch on the behaviour and thinking of our students in the schools. I think the kind of behaviour and thinking they have will have a great bearing on our future. Sir, not long ago the students in our schools were guilty of extremism in their thinking and behaviour which caused us some concern, They were a bit radical and this lasted for some length of time, and they were criticised by the society at large. However, now there has been a complete change to the other extreme. They have become indulgent in pleasure seeking and licentiousness, and some of them even try to imitate hippies of the West. This has also infected our schools. You can notice it. If we do not arrest such trends now, allow it to continue, it will result in our young people becoming decadent and degenerate.

How then are we going to bring up a rugged generation? The purpose of having extra-curricular activities in the schools is to channel the learning and energy of our students to the right direction. Hence we have civic subjects in our schools. How then could our youths have changed? I think we can deal with this matter under several subheadings. Firstly, the evil vogue and environment in our society exert harmful influences over our youngsters. Youngsters of lesser will power will not be able to resist such enticements and trends, Mass media like Radio and T.V, broadcasts, gramophones, the press, advertisements and posters, bookstores and coffee houses, all exert a kind of degenerating influence on our young people. On this, the Member for Thomason has given his view in the House a few days ago. Secondly, the disciplinary control by the schools has recently been lax on our students. Many teachers have sighed with a heavy heart about this. What are the causes? The answer may be that the schools do not bother to control the students, The less you do, the less trouble you get, otherwise your good intention may get you evil recompense from the students, What is the reason for this situation? It is because the schools are not given proper authority to deal with the students. Teachers are not given the right to mete out corporal punishment. With the system of automatic promotion, persuasion and character records will have no avail on the situation. If any corporal punishment is to be meted out, the school must be prepared to brave the possible anger of parents because they may write to the Ministry or to the press to complain. Under such circumstances, is it any wonder that most schools do not want to get any credit hut hope to avoid getting into trouble by not exercising control over the students? Thirdly, parents do not exercise their guidance adequately. This might be due to lack of time or proper understanding on their part. Most of them send their children to school in the hope that they will be taken care of by the schools. Since students spend about 5� hours in the school and most of the time at home, then if parents do not take proper care of their children but allow their children to wander about and to get mixed up with bad elements, they will be led astray. These are hut a few common causes; there are many other factors.

If we want to produce a rugged and healthy generation, which possesses not only brawn hut brain, we must allow the schools to have a settled and peaceful environment. To achieve this, the maintenance of discipline in the schools is most important. At the moment, the tendency to indulgence, looseness and self-seeking on the part of youths is still in the incipient stage, anti therefore it is time we took steps to arrest such tendency. However, this cannot be done by merely holding a few seminars or talking and lecturing by some experts. It is not a time to sit and talk but a time to stand up and act. In this respect, the Ministry of Education should shoulder its particular responsibilities.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad Backbenchers are not happy with certain aspects of our implementation of policies. As my colleague, the Minister for Communications, has said earlier on, any improvement which has been made in the Ministry of Communications is in a large part due to the dissatisfaction of Backbenchers; that it is largely due to the constructive criticisms that improvements have been made. In the same way I hope that improvements can be made in the Ministry of Education, partly due to the' criticisms and dissatisfaction of Backbenchers.

I can assure the Member for Delta that because of the introduction of technical education, there is no likelihood of our neglecting academic studies at all. Probably his dissatisfaction, and the dissatisfaction of many other Members, is with regard to the lack of linguistic ability of our students stemming largely from the fact that probably we are expecting too much in too short a time. This question of multi-lingualism and bi-lingualism is a recent phenomenon, I am not surprised at his disappointment in finding that, in answer to an advertisement for translators, there were only 20 applicants who turned out to be inadequate for the job. I should think it is too general to blame our educational system for the lack of proficient translators because if I were an efficient and proficient translator, I can make a much better living elsewhere rather than being a translator and spending my time translating documents. The mere fact that there were only 20 applicants with inadequate qualifications for the post or translator does not mean that we do not have efficient bi-linguists or multi-linguists in our midst. They are there, but we expect to see more of them.

Here again, we must realise that today's child in school, whether he be' in a primary or secondary school, is expected to learn much more than what was required in my time. In those days, first and foremost, we spent all our time on one language. There was then not that much explosion of knowledge as today, such that the child now has to divide his time not only studying the great mass of new knowledge and discoveries that have come to the fore, but also studying two languages. On top of that, he is also involved in extra-curricular activities. This is where we have got to be a bit chary anti wary in choosing the kind of syllabus that is required to develop our children in an all round manner, so that they will be technically orientated and will also have the academic background to live a fuller and a more gracious life. I would say that we are in a position of flux just now and the Research Department of the Ministry of Education will have to spend more time in evaluating carefully the kind of syllabus anti teaching that we have, and the kind of subjects that are being taught in schools.

6.45 p.m.

I am very pleased to hear that we have what the Member for Delta described as linguistic scholars, who are being underused in Nanyang University and his offer of their services to improve the teaching of language in the T.T.C, is most welcome. For the information of Members, we are not lying idle in the T.T C We are running classes in E,L.II, i.e., English classes for non-English medium teachers anti Chinese classes for non-Chinese medium teachers, to improve their command of anti skills in the languages. All this takes time. It does not happen all at once.

On another point, I do not know what the Member for Jurong actually meant when he said that we can do something in the way of controlling the very lax attitude of the students, and their love for an easy life. Among the points raised by the Member for Jurong I would think that what he expects us to do is to return to corporal punishment in school. He is an educator himself, but from reports I have gathered, I would have thought that this is a retrograde step. Anyway, there is sufficient authority in the school for corporal punishment, if the case warrants it. The principal is already empowered, but to allow' each and every teacher to inflict corporal Punishment on a child is a retrograde step. From the limited experience that I have in the Ministry of Education, I can well imagine the amount of abuse that can come up from this because among the 20,000 school teachers some are probably not quite conversant with the object of corporal punishment. Probably some of them may need psychiatric treatment, in the same way that psychiatric treatment may be needed for those who are unable to write their names after being in school for two years, as mentioned by the Member. Therefore, it will he very dangerous to empower teachers in general to administer corporal punishment. There are other solutions. But what I can agree with him is that we can improve the behaviour and attitudes of our students if more parents take an interest in looking after their children while they are away from schools. I think this trend should spread through a society because in a very highly urban uric! industrialised society the tendency is for more and more parents to leave the training or their children entirely to the schools So if parents will take more interest and more time in looking after their children, half the battle is won.

It is true that some parents do not fulfil the responsibility of training their children, but by and large, most of them do. We only hope that more anti more parents, having listened to the views of a professional educator about the role of parents, will now take an interest in their wards, so that it makes it easier for us to give them the requisite education and an all-round education for their future development.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, before I beg leave to withdraw, I would like to point out that the Minister has not answered my question. Is it possible that he is waiting for me to read another text before answering my point?

I mentioned earlier that the complainant must furnish his own name and address to facilitate investigations into an allegation. If there is any truth, then action must be taken by the Ministry of Education. But if the allegation is unfounded, I think the complainant himself should be punished for a false complaint. Sir, I have brought this matter up because I feel that if a school is undergoing great reform there will be lots and lots of complaints and counter-complaints. And another related point is that at the time when principals were enjoying the post-allowance, the teachers would make complaints against their principals before their retirement.

Mr Lim Kim San: My apology to the Member for Paya Lebar because I have completely left him out while turning over my notes.

To come to the point that he raised with regard to scurrilous allegations, the Member must be aware that during the last year we have not entertained any frivolous or scurrilous allegations by anonymous writers. We only take action where there are specific instances named and where, on the surface of it, there are some doubts as to whether the allegations are true or not. We do not just act on receipt of any anonymous letters.

Quite a large number of his colleagues disagreed with his view that seminars serve no useful purpose. We have received, as well as the newspapers, requests for more of these seminars. So they must have served a useful purpose. The Member also said that most of the teachers are general teachers; that they take several subjects, and it is a waste of time to spend two or three hours listening to a specialist. I say that even if a teacher does not teach the subject of the seminar which he is attending, he will be the better man for it because he is learning first-hand tips from a specialist who knows the subject.

I cannot agree with the Member that seminars are not well-planned. A lot of work, time and thought are put into the planning of a seminar, and I do not think that the School Inspectors or officials in the Ministry of Education will spend time, effort, money and thought over something which they think will be useless. Nor will they plan the seminars in a haphazard fashion, because they know that Backbenchers like the Member for Paya Lebar will surely bring it up in Parliament. In the majority of cases these seminars are well-planned. I have no doubts in my mind that these seminars do serve a useful purpose for those teachers who attend, except perhaps for a few who probably arrived panting, tired, and hungry, and therefore did not know what was going on. The rest of them must have derived some benefits from attending those seminars.

I think I have answered most of the points that the Member has raised.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin):Not enough.

Mr Lim Kim San: If he can mobilise the members of his union to come and attend a seminar during the holidays, I say welcome to them.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Sir, what I would like to clarify with the Minister is this. I am not opposed to the holding of seminars. What I am saying is that with this short duration of one or two hours only for the seminars, even if you can get the experts to lecture, you cannot make better teachers out of those trained in the old or new teaching methods. The period is so short that you cannot produce any results at all.

The next point is this. I have received complaints from my members against the seminar on the teaching of music. The music specialist in the seminar was publicising his own composition of music. That cannot be called a true seminar. On the seminar on physical education, it was a session for the selling of lottery tickets run by Inche Othman Wok. Can this be called a true seminar? I am not opposed to seminars as such. In fact, I am asking for longer sessions for seminars, so that teachers can really learn something. I do not want seminars to be turned into sessions for selling lottery tickets or Toto tickets, or sessions to publicise the compositions of music specialists.

Mr Lim Kim San: Sir, if the Member had studied Economics, he might like to know where Singapore is heading in the next 10 years, or he might want to make or to listen to a good analysis, and if he had attended the talk given by Dr Gob Keng Swee at the Symposium at the University of Singapore, which lasted less than an hour, then I wonder whether he would still be of the opinion that a seminar of one, two or three hours is useless. A seminar does not improve one's knowledge or understanding of a situation, but to make one understand the situation and therefore make one a better teacher.

With regard to the selling of tickets, it is probable that some teachers undertook this extra-mural activity. It could not be, and I would not say that the organiser of the seminar encouraged ticket-selling among his fellow members. But in the other case of publicity, if the music specialist in the seminar is a good composer, I see no reason why he should not publicise his composition. It is up to the teacher to evaluate whether the composition is worth their while or not. I would not say outright that the composition is useless; it may have its own merit.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Sir, before I beg leave to withdraw, I wish to say that the Minister for Education mentioned the talk given by another Minister at the University of Singapore. I have more confidence in our Cabinet Ministers than experts. Although I am not very satisfied with the answer, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn,

The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Ng Kah Ting-

(4) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1010.

Mr Conceicao: I am not moving my amendment, Sir.

7.00 p.m.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1010.

Sir, in moving this amendment, I am merely seeking information with regard to the appointment of a Visiting Professor to the Ministry of Education, I shall be grateful if the Minister will be kind enough to inform the House about the provision of a salary scaled at $1,950-50A-2,050 for this post. What is the purpose of this appointment, and what is this Visiting Professor expected to do in the Ministry of Education?

The Minister of State for Education (Dr Lee Chiaw Meng): Mr Speaker, Sir, this provision of Visiting Professor was made with a view to engaging an expert in Teacher-training to assist the Principal of the Teachers' Training College, in view of its enlarged functions because the School of Education of the University of Singapore has closed down. We are keeping this in review, if the manpower of T.T.C, is sufficient to meet our own requirements, we may not fill this post.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: In the light of the reply from the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Yen Choo Kok-

(5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1081.

Mr Conceicao: I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Mr Yeo is not here.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1111.

Sir, I received several complaints from principals that for the past year they have been filling in more than 100 different forms. They complained that these forms are very complicated and have to be completed in English. It is not easy to fill in all these forms. Sometimes when forms have been filled in and submitted to the Ministry of Education, they are returned because they have been wrongly filled. As a result, a lot of time is wasted before all the forms are properly filled. If a school principal is kept busy with this form-filling exercise, then the rest of his work will have to be sacrificed.

Let us take this academic year by way of illustration. So far, more than 20 forms have to be filled in by principals. In one instance, a form is to be filled in by school children giving the constituency to which they belong. In this respect, even the teachers themselves are not sure about what is required. The students are also confused, because they do not know which constituency they belong to. When they ask their parents, they too do not know. So they just fill up the forms haphazardly, as a result of which the necessary correct information is not obtained. I have also been given to understand that these forms are required by the Research and Statistics Department to ascertain the school requirements for the next ten years. If this information is to be supplied in such a great hurry. I do not know whether they will be of any use.

Sir, I would like to know what is the exact function of the Research and Statistics Department in the Ministry of Education. What has this department done so far to be of benefit to education? Can the Minister concerned please enlighten the House?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Member for Jurong complained about the Ministry of Education changing its policy without planning, but now he is complaining that we send the principals too many forms calling for statistics. I do not see how the Ministry can make any plans without statistics and data.

The sending of the various forms to schools asking for details is an annual affair, We are trying our best to send them out in one lot so that the schools can fill them up either at the beginning: or at the end of the term,

With respect to the particular form mentioned by the Member, he has correctly pointed out that it is designed to make a study of the mobility patterns of the student population, and so to enable us to prepare a school building programme for the next ten years. The Education Ministry has already clarified that the information, regarding the constituency where the student is residing, is supposed to be filled in by the teacher and not the student or his parents. This information is only used as a rough guide.

He has also asked about the work of the Research Unit. The Research Unit has various functions. amongst them the appraisal of the education system -I believe the Member for Jurong is extremely keen on this - the evaluation of teaching methods, and curriculum development. Over the last two years, the Research Unit has done some 20 reports, which have proved extremely useful to the Ministry.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, if the forms to be filled by the schools are of any use, then I have no objection. But as far as I know there are some forms which have been filled in and submitted to the Ministry of Education, but they were just shelved without putting them to any use at all.

Sir, I would like the Minister to give us an assurance that, in future, all forms to be filled in by Chinese schools should also be in Chinese.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: I can give assurance to the Member for Jurong that we will try our best to get the forms translated into all the four languages.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the assurance given, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1161.

Sir, I understand that after the readjustments of salary scales, following the negotiations between the Ministry and the Teachers' Unions, the post of "Principal" does not appear in the Estimates any longer. Teachers are no longer known as teachers. All teachers and principals are known as Education Officer, Senior Education Officer and Principal Education Officer. All the salaries of these Education Officers have been properly regraded too, in view of this, I do not understand why there are still two posts of Principals of Secondary Schools, Grade G, appearing in the Estimates. Can the Minister concerned explain which are the two schools that require a Principal at Superscale G, and why?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, I hope the Member for Jurong does not imply in his question that we should abolish the two Superscale promotion posts for secondary school principals. I agree with him that the designation does not sound very well. Perhaps it should rear! "Education Officer, Superscale G" instead of "Principal of Secondary Schools". But this is a minor point. Promotion posts to Superscale grade are very hard to come by. We have only two and we intend to keep them for the promotion of those in the teaching profession.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, the Minister has not told this House whether or not the two Principals are for two separate schools, and what are the schools.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, as the Member for Jurong is aware, the newly revised salary structure is to allow for greater flexibility. Therefore, we do not intend to designate the principal of any two schools for these two Superscale G posts. At the moment, these two Super-scale posts are held by the Principal of the Raffles Institution and Principal of the Raffles Girls' School. Sir, if the Member will refer to last year's Estimates, he will see that it was designated as Principal, Raffles Institution, and Principal, Raffles Girls' School. But this year, it has been designated as "Principals of Secondary Schools" to allow for the necessary flexibility.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the answer given, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1191.

The recent restructuring of the Education Service has enhanced the promotional prospects of the serving officers in the Education Service. May I know what steps have been taken by the Education Ministry to determine the criteria for assessing the merits of deserving Education Officers for promotion from one grade to another? How and when will the Ministry conduct the next promotion exercise, and how regular will future promotion exercises be conducted?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe the Member for Moulmein will recall that when agreement was reached on the restructuring of salary scales, it was pointed out that it may take a few months to finalise the conversion. 1 think we will he able to finalise it by the end of this month. Meanwhile, we have already drawn up certain criteria for promotions for the consideration of the Public Service Commission and the Ministry of Finance. This involves a newly developed Staff Confidential Report which, among other things, takes into account assessment on the performance of teachers, including personality, E.C.A., and work in community services. As soon as agreement is reached, we will carry out a promotion exercise. The promotion exercise will be carried out for Group III officers first. Being smaller in number, we will carry out promotions first for craft teachers, and then for technical teachers. As for frequency of these exercises, I am afraid I am not able to answer the question, but it is supposed to be flexible. For the coming exercise, we do not know the number of promotion posts that will be available.

I believe I have answered most of the points raised.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Point of clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir. He has mentioned that the immediate promotion exercise will be conducted for craft teachers first and then for technical teachers. Will there be a promotion exercise for the other teachers? If so, how soon?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: This is subjected to the final agreement with the P.S.C, and the Ministry of Finance. Once the newly developed Staff Confidential Report is ready, we will carry out a promotion exercise.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: In view of the reply given by the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Sia Khoon Seong -

(9) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1192.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: I am not moving amendment (9), Sir,If I may proceed with my next amendment. Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1211.

With the recent restructuring of the Education Service, promotional opportunities for aided school teachers will be considerably enhanced. In view of the fact that the promotion exercise for aided school teachers does not come under the purview of the Public Service Commission, what steps will be taken by the Education Ministry to ensure that promotion exercises are conducted for them, regularly and fairly? Will the Education Ministry also consider seeking the Finance Ministry's concurrence to allow aided school teachers to apply for holiday bungalows recently acquired by the Government from the Royal Air Force, particularly in view of the recent policy of the Finance Ministry to let out such holiday bungalows to members of the public?

7.15 p.m.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the first part of the question, a Special Committee, headed by the Director of Education as Chairman, has been formed, and it will study and review the position and carry out a promotion exercise for all aided school teachers. It will also follow the same pattern as the promotion exercise for Government school teachers.

On the second question regarding holiday bungalows, aided school teachers can apply for bungalows as any other member of the public. The fees chargeable to them will be the same as those for the public. Incidentally, I would like to point out that bungalow allocation is under the charge of the Ministry of Finance.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, I am not happy with the reply to the second question. However, since he has passed the buck to the Ministry of Finance, I will in due course raise the matter again with the Minister for Finance. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1221*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.)

When the new Minister for Education took office, he shelved the Institute of Education Act. It was a great disappointment to the teachers and as a result, some of them left the Education Service. I understand that the School of Education in the University of Singapore has also closed down recently. I would like to ask the Minister concerned what opportunities for advancement are there left available for ambitious and promising teachers? Are there training courses for teachers to acquire degrees in the T.T.C.? If there are, ambitious teachers in the primary and secondary schools can undertake such degree courses and thus our education system will be improved. I wonder whether the Minister has any information on this matter.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, why is discrimination shown by the Ministry of Education towards the Indian graduates in the Tamil secondary schools? Although these officers possess university degrees and have gone through the T.T.C, they are not paid a graduate's salary. In other words, their degree is not recognised and they are not paid accordingly. It is time the Ministry looked into this discrimination and put an end to it once for all.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker. Sir,I am afraid the Member for Jurong has completely misunderstood the Minister when he said in Parliament last year that we were reviewing the role the Institute of Education would play. In fact, with the closing down of the School of Education in the University of Singapore, the T.T.C, will enlarge its function and take over the work of the School of Education in preparing students for post-graduate degrees. like Master of Education and Ph.D. (Education). If he wants to know more about the degree of Bachelor of Education, I would like to refer him to the report by Lord James who was appointed by the British Government to study the question of the role of the Institute of Education in the United Kingdom. The finding is very revealing.

With regard to the query raised by the Member for Anson, there is absolutely no question of discrimination. As far back as 1961, a Foreign Qualifications Committee was set up by the Public Service Commission to assess the qualifications and to consider the merits of applicants possessing foreign degrees. As a result, many teachers in possession of Indian university degrees were put on the appropriate salary scale. Since then all teachers with foreign qualifications, irrespective of the country of origin, have been considered on individual merit for emplacement on the appropriate salary scale.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker. Sir, there are some graduates who are trained teachers, but they are put on a salary scale not on par with those in the English stream, Why is it so? After all, their education js higher than Senior Cambridge or the S.L.C.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, one of the findings of the Foreign Qualifications Committee was that, and I believe the Member for Anson will agree with me, different universities have different standards.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to recognition of foreign degrees, while accepting the fact that it is the prerogative and the role of the Special Committee, a set-up by the P.S.C. to assess foreign degrees, the point at issue is this. This particular Committee was set up sometime in 1961, and is no longer active. Since then, there could be deserving cases requiring the assessment of this Committee. Perhaps a solution to this particular problem is to resuscitate this Committee so that it could assess the merits of foreign degree holders.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, all foreign qualifications should be considered on their individual merits, and there is no question of giving a blanket recognition.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to concern myself too much with the closure of the School of Education, so long as opportunities for further education are given to ambitious and enterprising teachers. I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn,

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251.

Sir, since the introduction of the Educational Television Service, there have been programmes for technical and primary schools. However, all these programmes are screened in the daytime. Sometime ago the Adult Education Board announced its intention to introduce E.T.V, programmes for adults. So far there is no sign of it. May I ask when will these E.T,V, programmes be introduced for our adult population?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether the Member for Anson watches television. The E.T.V, service for adults was introduced as far as five years ago. There is a programme titled English for Everyone, dramatised by "Connie and Walter". It was produced jointly by the Adult Education Board and the E.T.V. This is followed by "Slim John". In addition to this programme designed specially for adults, there arc other programmes, which the Member for Anson has made reference to, which have been repeated on T.V. over the last five years. These are being telecast during viewing hours on Sunday evenings. The programmes include Health Education, Discovering Science, etc. With the establishment of C.E.P.T.A., that is, the Centre for the Production and Training of Adult Education and Television, the Member can be rest assured that both the range and intensity of E.T.V, for adults will be increased.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: In view of the explanation of the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1401*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs P. Govindaswamy, Ng Kah Ting and Ho Kah Leong.)

Sir, in view of the current campaign to promote industrial safety conscious ness, I would like to enquire what steps have been taken by the Ministry of Education to promote such consciousness in the technical workshops. What schemes are there, if any, to cover occupational risks and accidents for teachers? Will the technical teachers in the aided schools be covered by any insurance scheme in case of accidents in the technical workshop?

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, today, our secondary schools are giving emphasis on technical education. This is a very sound policy indeed. However, on second thought, do all our students have an aptitude for technical education? The aptitude test at present carried out is very unsatisfactory. It takes into consideration the school examination results, and the workshop practice. From the results of this test only the best students go to the technical schools. The rest are left to plod their way in academic schools. This system of selection will mean that the State is liable to lose political scientists and experts in the other fields. Moreover, do we have enough technical schools in Singapore? Are we not emphasising too much on technical education and producing too many school leavers with secondary technical education and thus produce a surplus of technicians?

Mr Ng Kah Ting: I am not speaking Sir.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the emphasis on education has been shifted from the academic to the technical, resulting in the Establishment of the Technical Education Department. Technical education has been given priority from all quarters, and consequently the officials in the Technical Education Department seem to have become rather arrogant.

I have received complaints from principals and teachers that there is too much bureaucracy in the Technical Education Department. I have personal experience of this attitude. I have tried to take up the case of a teacher who claims recognition of his past teaching experience but without results. I wrote two letters on the 14th of June and the 21st of July last year to the Technical Education Department. There was not even an acknowledgement, not to say of achieving a due reply. Such treatment is meted out even to a Member of Parliament, and let us not mention about treatment to members of the public. I do not know whether or not letters from Members of Parliament carry any weight, or is it a question of inefficiency in the department itself? I would like the Minister to explain this in this House.

The next point I wish to raise is the question of textbooks for technical subjects. We are on the fourth year of technical education. However, there are still no proper textbooks for the technical students. There is only the syllabus on technical education, and because of the dearth of textbooks different teachers have devised different notes for distribution to students. As a result, the progress in technical education differs from one school to another. I do not know whether the Technical Education Department has taken any action to produce textbooks.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have also received complaints from principals of schools which do not have technical classes for Secondary III and onwards that, as a result of the aptitude test all their best students have been selected to go to the technical schools. This has been mentioned by the Member for Anson just now. If the best students are selected for the technical classes, what will happen to the teaching of the humanities and other social sciences? Of course, we will produce the best of technicians, However, if we do not have people with a knowledge of the humanities and the social sciences, then we can at best build only a technical society which can be listless. In the long-term interest of the nation, I do not know whether or not this is good.

The next point is that after these students have been selected for the technical classes in other schools, the extra-curricular activities, in particular, the uniformed groups in their schools, are affected and put at a great disadvantage. They cannot carry on their activities because the best students have been taken away. I would like the Minister to think of a solution to this problem.

7.30 p.m.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry has always been aware of the need to develop safety consciousness and correct work habits and aptitude among technical students, In fact, we consider this an integral part of the whole training. In most technical schools, we have introduced instruction in first aid, and in most schools we have such a set-up as a safety committee. Constant care is always taken to stress the safety aspect of workshop practice to the students by the teachers. In fact, pupils are not allowed to use any machine unless they have been briefed by the teachers on its proper use and the safety precautions to be taken.

I believe the Member for Moulmein also raised certain issues about the question of insurance coverage in case of accidents occurring in technical schools. All technical teachers in Government schools enjoy the same coverage as any civil servant. So there is no question of a separate insurance scheme to cover any occupational hazards encountered by them. In the case of aided schools, their technical teachers are in a position similar to all other teachers in aided schools, where there is no insurance scheme to cover them. It is up to the management committee of the school to decide whether they should provide such an insurance scheme.

There have been no major injuries sustained by the technical students so far, largely due to the safety precautions that we have taken, But should any accident occur to students in the Government schools, the Government will take full responsibility of the accident, as in the recent case of accident in Anderson Secondary School. In the case of aided schools, I am afraid the first claim will be on the management committee. To the best of my knowledge, there is no precedent case yet.

The Member may be interested to know that for the students of the only Government-aided vocational institute, i.e., the Boys' Town Vocational Institute, there is a limited form of insurance cover for each student provided by the school management.

The Member for Anson has some misgivings about the channelling exercise. As pointed out by the Member himself, the channelling exercise was based on (a) aptitude; and (b) their performance in related subjects, i.e., Language, Mathematics and Science over the first two years in the secondary school. As far as we are concerned, the preliminary evidence seems to indicate that the system we are adopting is functioning very satisfactorily, although I must admit that no amount of testing and measurement is 100 per cent accurate, and there is bound to be a few exceptional cases.

I am afraid it is not true that we have put too much emphasis on technical education. After all, technical education is only part of an all-round education to be provided in secondary schools. And there is, therefore, no danger of over-training.

I think the Member also asked for the number of technical students. The intake of technical students depends very much on the manpower requirements of our industrialisation programme. Our present level, which is roughly one-third, or one in every three school leavers will be technically biased, is, I think, about the right level for any country. I do not think we should increase it any further.

The Member for Jurong referred to the efficiency of the Department of Technical Education. I must apologise if the Department has not replied to his letter. It must be due to an administrative slip-up. I give him my assurance that it will not happen again and, in future, all such inquiries will be acknowledged immediately. The particular case that the Member for Jurong has raised has become so famous that it has also come to my ears. It is about a teacher with teaching experience in some other countries, and the delay was due to the prolonged correspondence between the Ministry and the foreign government on the recognition of his experience as a teacher.

Technical education has only been introduced very recently and we have not really drawn up a very comprehensive list of textbooks to be used; we have to bear in mind that the system we adopt, which is the modular system, is quite unique. We will develop the textbooks to be used by all the technical students. The guidelines we provide to the teachers are very comprehensive and, in fact, are based on a programme-learning approach, which is fairly satisfactory. In fact, the Member may be interested to know that we are in the process of developing textbooks for metal work at the moment.

Both the Members for Jurong and Anson raised the question of students being transferred out of academic schools to attend technical schools. We tried to rectify this by introducing the concept of the arrangement of centralised workshops at Technical III and IV levels, which is now being practised for 16 schools, whereby a student will remain in his own school but go to a centralised place to study the technical subjects. This arrangement unfortunately will affect the E.C.A activities of the students and, therefore, both the supervisor of the centralised workshop and the principal of the sender-school have been asked to liase with each other to cut down the interference with the E.C.A, activities of the students as much as possible.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, in view of the explanation by the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement -

Mr P. Govindaswamy:

(14) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1531.

Mr Ng Kah Ting:

(15) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2015.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok:

(16) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2108.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong:

(17) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2116.

The Chairman: Amendment (14), Mr P. Govindaswamy.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I am not moving amendment (15).

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, I am not moving amendment (16).

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, I am not moving amendment (17), but I will proceed with amendment (18). Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2120.

Sir, the holding of the Annual Youth Festival by the Ministry of Education places great strain both on the teachers and the pupils in those schools which annually participate in this Festival, I wonder whether the Ministry of Education has considered the desirability of zoning the schools into two zones, so that the schools need only to take part in the Annual Youth Festival once in two years.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, the Singapore Youth Festival is, in the nature of things, an excellent opportunity for highlighting the achievements of our youth and the rich cultural heritage of a multi-racial society. The Festival brings about a sense of fulfilment in many schools and also serve as a source of inspiration to others. However, if and when the activities connected with the Youth Festival become too onerous, we will consider holding it biennially, as suggested by the Member for Moulmein.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, in view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting-

(19) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2127.

The Chairman: Amendment (19), Mr Ng Kah Ting.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2251.

Sir, I would like to enquire what approved courses were organised last year, and what bonus payments were made to participants of such courses? What approved courses are planned for the coming financial year? And what are the criteria for determining bonus payments to participants of such courses?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe my Minister has already touched on this matter earlier. As pointed out by him, the courses run last year were mainly to strengthen the teaching of languages and technical subjects. And more of such courses will be run for the next financial year.

As regards bonus, I believe the Member asked about the quantum of bonus?

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: What is the criteria for determining the payment of bonus? In other words, what are the conditions that the teachers must satisfy before they are eligible for bonus payments?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, the criteria depend on the length of the course, the demands on the teachers' time, and also on the demands of the services.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, in spite of the very vague answer, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Sia Khoon Seong -

(21) That the sum to be allocated for Head 080! be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2257.

The Chairman: Amendment (21), Mr Sia.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2458.

Sir, I am taking this opportunity to enquire from the Minister as to what is being done in the area of career guidance in the technical and non technical streams. From my own personal enquiries from school leavers and some of the youngsters in the final year of secondary education, I often get the idea that they seem to be rather vague as to what they want to do or what they can do. Perhaps more can be done in the area of career guidance not only by the Ministry of Education but also at the school level. Perhaps there should be teachers delegated to the special charge of guiding the pupils as to the requirements of commerce and industry.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, the unit under the Technical Education Department is only for administrative convenience but it covers work on all aspects. In fact, in each secondary school there are at least two career teachers to organise and co-ordinate career guidance activities, and there are about 200 teachers in this category. The activities cover talks, seminars, exhibitions, excursions to factories, and also include publications of the various literature for the benefit of the students.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

7.45 p.m.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3001.

Sir, I notice that there is a reduction in the vote for this subhead, from $7.00() to $5,200. I would like to enquire what educational exhibitions, career conventions and teachers' seminars were held last year? Moreover, why is there a reduction in the vote for the next financial year instead of an increase, seeing that they are such highly desirable educational activities?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, the sum of $5,200 was based on the expenditure which was incurred over the last financial year. I cannot give off-hand what type of educational exhibitions, etc., were held last year. If the Member could give us notice, we should be able to give further details.

He also raised the question why there is a decrease instead of an increase in the vote. We were hoping that, by soliciting participation from the industrial sector, we would be able to carry out more such exhibitions at the same cost as has been done for many of the previous exhibitions.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: In view of the explanation by the Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi (Kampong Kembangan): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $100*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Sia Khoon Seong and Ng Kah Ting.)

Sir, the Government Printing Office is now a commercial corporation and is competing with the private sector in placing tenders prom statutory boards and private firms for printing work. But in respect of the magazine Harapan which I know is printed by Eurasia Press, why was the printing job not given to the Government Printer? Were tenders invited before the job was given to Eurasia Press? What was the cost per copy charged by Eurasia Press as compared with that of the Government Printer?

Because a lot of technical work is required, I wish to know how many Malay students from both the Malay and English streams have opted for technical education? From this number, how many have passed and how many have failed? Are these technical students given the opportunity to opt for the particular subjects of their choice, or are they being taught technical subjects not of their choice?

Another point that I wish to know, Sir, is - this, The Government has encouraged its staff, including the teachers, to enhance their knowledge. Those teachers who wish to go to the university after having served 10 or 12 years, can they be given study leave, if they have been accepted by the University of Singapore, the Nanyang University or the University of Malaya?

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, in filing my amendment on this subhead, I originally wanted to speak on a variety of topics pertaining to the Ministry of Education. But it appears that, in tact, most of the points have already been covered by my colleagues, the Backbenchers. However, there is still one small point which I wish to raise since I have missed it just now, and that is, the Milk Feeding Scheme that has been introduced. This is, in fact, a new provision which comes under subhead 2127.

I personally welcome the setting up of such a scheme in our schools. I presume this Milk Feeding Scheme is for primary school children, but I would like to know whether the provision of $10,800 is sufficient for all the primary schools. I understand that this is a pilot scheme to cover only a few primary schools, and that children are given powdered milk, But it appears to me that in some schools the children do not like either the taste of the powdered milk or its colour. Therefore, these schools tried to induce them to drink by adding some colouring. But this does not go a long way to make them drink either. Subsequently, I was told that sugar was added, but I do not know what the result is.

I would like to seek some clarification from the Minister as to what steps are being taken to encourage more school children to take to the drinking of milk, I believe that this supply of powdered milk comes from UNICEF. Has the Ministry any plans to supplement this scheme by giving a better type of powdered milk instead of the present supply which has no taste and has to be sweetened by adding sugar? In this respect, can the Minister also inform this House as to the number of schools and the number of children who are under this pilot scheme? And will this scheme be extended to all primary schools?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, may I answer the question raised by the Member for Punggol? This Milk Feeding Scheme is run on a nation-wide basis. I think it applies practically to all the primary schools. Unfortunately milk does not agree with the Asian stomach. Whether you add colour, flavour, or sugar, I think the Asian people still do not quite like to drink milk, I believe we do not belong to the zone called the "milk drinking belt", Anyway, we are encouraging the milk-drinking business by adding flavour to the milk for the primary school children to induce them to drink. I think that answers the point on milk drinking.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think I can disagree with the Minister of State's assertion that the Asian stomach does not react favourably to milk. I am a layman to diet, but I would have thought that most of us, if not all, were fed with milk in our infant years. The Minister of State in all probability was also brought up on milk to a certain extent! As I have said, it was probably the type of powdered milk with a taste which the children did not like, and the quality was not too good. I am not quite sure, but perhaps his Ministry would care to look into this to see why a good number of school children do not like this kind of milk supplied to them.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Sir, no doubt I was brought up on milk also, but when we were young we were always hungry; there was not much choice!

The Ministry of Education does not have to carry out an investigation to find out why our young children do not like to drink milk. In fact, research has been carried out by international agencies and it proved that we do not belong to the "milk drinking belt". No doubt there are people who drink milk, but I think this is just a diet-preference. Incidentally, this is skimmed milk which tastes slightly different.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff: Sir, my question has not been answered.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, in answer to the Member for Kampong Kembangan, I hate to have to disappoint him. One of the questions he asked calls for details as to the number of Malay students who have been admitted to technical streams in the schools, and how many have been able to be admitted into classes of their choice. If he were to put in a notice for Oral Answer then the relevant details will be given. 1 thought we are here debating matters of general policy.

With regard to his query on the publication of the Harapan, with your kind permission. Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like my Parliamentary Secretary to reply to it because he is closely connected with this magazine.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff: What about study leave?

Mr Lim Kim San: As regards study leave, my Parliamentary Secretary is au tab' with the question, and he will also answer that question.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Inche Mohd. Ghazali Bin Ismail): Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the matter of Harapan, raised by the Member for Kampong Kembangan, the Harapan is a publication of the Educational Publications Bureau, and not of the Ministry of Education. It is a magazine mainly on current affairs, and is intended for Malay secondary school students. The articles have to be submitted to the Ministry of Education for vetting to ensure that the contents are in every way suitable for publication. Of course, the editors of Harapan are officers in the Ministry.

There is another point queried on the printing of Harapan. The contract for the printing was awarded to the lowest tender.

In regard to his other question about granting study leave to teachers, the answer is yes, if the subjects of study are relevant to the teaching service. But each individual case has to be considered on its own merit,

The Member also wanted to know the number of Malay students who are successful in their option for the technical stream, and the number allowed to take the technical subjects of their choice. I would like to inform the House that all technical students, irrespective of language media, are given the opportunity to indicate the preference for workshop subjects. While the preference is taken into account, the final selection of a student for the various workshop subjects depends on his aptitude and performance in the workshop subjects in Secondary I and II levels, and his performance in the relevant supporting subjects, for example, Mathematics and Science.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, there are teachers from the Malay stream who wish to further their studies by going to the university to take up Malay studies. Is this a relevant subject as mentioned by the Parliamentary Secretary?

Inche Mohd. Ghazali: Sir, I think the number of graduates in Malay studies is already too great, and therefore it is considered not really relevant to our immediate requirements.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff: (In Malay): Sir, can the Parliamentary Secretary inform this House what are the subjects that are considered relevant?

8.00 p.m.

The Chairman: Order. Moment of interruption.

Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff: (In Malay): Sir, I beg leave to withdraw,

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $209,784,470 for Head 0801 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1972, to 31st March, 1973, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Speaker: So be it.