MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF SINGAPORE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1976 TO 31ST MARCH, 1977

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

5.29 p.m.

Head V (cont.) --

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour (Mr Fong Sip Chee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I was expecting the reply of the Senior Minister of State for Education to be more elucidating and encouraging. However, I must say that his reply has been most pathetic. It was nothing more than a pathetic mitigation. Parliament is the last place for us to plead for mitigation. What the Hon. Members wanted are firm commitments as to what the Minister would direct the Ministry to do. What we heard from the Minister of State was a mere restating of the various policies. He gave us a very good lecture on the contents of the various subjects. These are not what we want. We want a firm commitment from the Minister in categorical terms as to what line of action he would take to correct all these mistakes that have been plaguing the principals, teachers, parents and students.

5.30 p.m.

I do not know how many sinecures there are in the Ministry of Education, perhaps the Minister can tell the House. He told us that as a result of reorganisation some senior officers have been removed. But he did not tell us why these senior officers were removed.

The most unsatisfactory reply I have heard is that on the PPP. This is only one of the minor problems. In fact, there were many other problems mentioned by Members. In areas where teachers and principals should be given some free hand to decide, they were not given. But in the matter of "tried failure", as I have said in my speech in the debate on the Budget statement, the Minister suddenly became so generous that he said. "We will leave it to the principals and the teachers to decide whether or not to adopt the PPP." Why this sudden generosity? This is not the way to cover up a mistake. If it is a mistake, let us acknowledge that it is a mistake, Let us be brave or bold enough to declare that we will discontinue with the PPP, But no, that was not to be the case. So in the end, if all the principals were to decide to drop the PPP, there would not be any more PPP classes in Singapore. And then quietly the Ministry will say, "There you are. There are no more PPP classes." The Ministry can thus achieve its objective without having to admit in this House that it was a failure. I want to hear from the Minister whether or not the PPP was a failure, and whether or not the Ministry is going to discontinue with the scheme.

May I refer the Minister to Hansard. Vol. 34, No. 18, col. 1317, dated 20th November, 1975 where at that sitting of Parliament the Senior Minister of State committed himself that the PPP would be incorporated into the education system. I would like to know from the Minister since when this change of heart took place, that is, between November 1975 when he gave the answer to a question from the Member for Serangoon Gardens and now. He made a firm commitment that he would incorporate the PPP into our education system, And yet today the principals are given a free hand. I can assure you, Sir, that this is one free hand which the principals would not want.

There is another question on the six or seven-year primary education in the restructured education system which many Members have raised. We have not heard from the Minister up till now whether this system is on or off. My understanding is that the restructured education system, as has been pointed out by the Member for Telok Blangah, is still-born. I have also stated in the debate on the Budget that it is still-born. Yet the teachers are still required to attend the evaluation courses. God help us as to what is going on in the Ministry of Education! They have been playing with guinea pigs long enough. We do not want to continue to be guinea pigs.

Dr Augustine H. H. Tan (Whampoa): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to voice my deep regret that the Government has chosen to retain the use of sterilisation as an incentive for admission to schools. Sir, there is no disagreement on the need for population control; neither have I strong objection to preference being given to a two-child family, though one could argue reasonably about the human rights of every child born into this world by mistake or by intention.

There are some questions that Government should consider carefully. Is it necessary at all to use sterilisation to achieve population control? Are there no other less objectionable means? In any case, how many babies are thereby prevented from being conceived? Is it right at all for the majority to ignore the strong convictions of a minority? What will it cost to the majority to reject the use of sterilisation as a means of obtaining priority of admission? Sir, let me emphasise here that the right to govern is not in question at all here. What I question is whether the same objective, namely, population control, cannot be attained by less objectionable means. Surely Government should try to accommodate as many points of view as possible without having to sacrifice its basic good objectives.

And here, Sir, Members are aware of the valuable contributions that the Catholic schools have made in Singapore -contributions to the stability, growth and well-being of Singapore by producing good citizens with the right values and attitudes. People may choose to question about values and systems of values, but I think there are boundaries beyond which the Government should not intrude upon, unless there are good rational reasons for doing so. In the case of population control, why take on sterilisation and use that as a lever to get people to practise population control? Even in the case of abortion, it is clearly a very objectionable measure. The Catholic stand is very simple, namely, that human beings are more than mere animals, I can bring my cat or dog to the veterinary department for sterilisation because I do not want the cat or the dog to proliferate, but human beings are totally a different matter altogether. The Government is only a temporary guardian of the land. It is made up of individuals who are mortal and all are subject to the same law of God.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Mr Speaker, Sir, on the specific point of the PPP raised by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour, I did say that it would be incorporated into the education system. But that was on the understanding that it is workable. As I understand it, and I still maintain, the PPP itself as an approach to teaching is good. But unfortunately, although it is theoretically good, in practice it is highly demanding on our teachers, We do not have that many suitable teachers and, as a result, we have to say that if the principals and teachers feel that they can cope with it they can carry on. This is in line with our latest change of policy whereby principals were given more authority to decide what is best for their schools, basing on the overall concept of the policy decided by the Ministry.

As for the six or seven years of primary education, I would like to clarify to the House that with the re-introduction of the retention system, the question of seven years does not arise at all. Basically, our primary education is still six years. Whether one wants to call it a still-born restructured education, or by whatever name, the question of seven years does not arise now.

On the question of sterilisation, I fully agree that this is something which is very personal. I did say just now that this is a condition for a privilege. We are not forcing it on anyone. If any one feels that sterilisation is against his religious belief, I am not asking him to undergo sterilisation. A policy may sometimes be unpleasant, but I suppose a certain amount of tolerance is expected of citizens.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am still a little confused. Would the Minister of State categorically state in this House whether the restructured education scheme is on or off? Even the teachers and the principals are arguing among themselves whether the restructured education scheme is on or off.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Mr Speaker, Sir, an education system, unfortunately, may be called by many names. When we make some modifications, then another name is given. If we were to say that the restructured education system is off, I would agree that the name is not in use any more. Regarding the six years' primary education, there have been modifications and changes. It is not true to say that all changes are entirely off and that there is no value in training the teachers. But if Members refer to the specific term, yes, I agree that it is not used any more.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, in the restructured education system, as announced by the ex-Minister for Education, I think the fundamental feature of that system is that children in Primary VI need not have to sit for the PSLE, The question now asked by parents and teachers is this: with the recent announcement by the present Minister for Education, are we going to introduce or reintroduce the Primary VI School Leaving Examination?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, there will be an annual assessment. Therefore, the PSLE, or whatever name it is called will be different in nature, In the annual assessment, the child has to pass at every level. And when he reaches Primary VI, of course, there will be an examination. If Members still want to call it the PSLE. then it will be so.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, I think the Senior Minister of State has missed my point. In the restructured education system, it has been pointed out that there will be no Primary VI School Leaving Examination of the old system to determine whether the child will proceed to the academic stream or the technical stream to do his secondary education. And if the child failed the PSLE, he would be considered a dropout. The restructured education system therefore abolished this criterion or assessment to determine whether or not the child could proceed with his secondary education. The impression given by the announcement of the new restructured education system is that every child irrespective of his performance in school (although it will be based on assessment) will go to a secondary school according to his aptitude. But then every child is assured of a post primary education. That was the impression given. Nobody should worry about PSLE any more.

But now with the recent announcement, do we take it that there will still be a weeding out of the failures? In other words, those children who pass the PSLE examination will go to secondary schools, and those who fail will have to grope around and find whatever education is available in the Adult Education Board and other private schools. This is quite an important question but we are not able to get a definite answer.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: I fully understand the question. The PSLE was based on the non-retention or partial retention system. It means that when a child reached Primary VI he would sit for the PSLE, and having passed he would then go to the secondary schools. Therefore, once the retention system is introduced, there will have to be an annual assessment including Primary VI. If the children pass the Primary VI examination they will go to secondary schools. If they do not pass the examination then, as I have mentioned just now about the so-called nine years' schooling, they will be channelled to do various courses of training. This is actually the difference. Whether we like it or not, we cannot do away with the examination system at the moment. We need the examination to assess and select which children will go to secondary schools and which children cannot go to secondary schools.

5.45 p.m.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister of State has improved somewhat from omission to ambiguity. He has made all of us more confused.

My understanding of the restructured education system was that it would do away with the PSLE which was a kind of objective examination that allowed the pupils during examination to gamble as to whether or not the answer provided was right or wrong. We realise the adversities and the weakness of this system and therefore the restructured system introduced an assessment at Primary III to cause a diversification of two streams, one towards six years' primary education and the other towards seven years' primary education. At the end of six or seven years, there would be a second assessment. But the understanding was that such an assessment would not be on the lines of the PSLE where a student ticks away answers to questions. It would be an assessment based on the yearly performance of the pupils as they proceed upwards.

Let us for the time being forget about the non-retention of students. This is going to complicate things much worse if we start talking about it at this stage. I agree with the Member for Moulmein that what is necessary at this stage is a categorical statement by the Ministry of Education on what is happening now with the restructured system. Are we having a seven-year primary education and would there be a selection process undertaken at that point to stream some pupils to the nine-year primary education? And what kind of selection process is going to be held at that point? Sir, can the Minister answer my questions before I ask more questions?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Mr Speaker, Sir, when I answered a question just now. I said that there is no such thing as a seven-year primary education. There will be no seven-year primary education. It is still Primary VI and there is assessment. It is true that the PSLE, or by whatever name it is called, will most likely remain the same because we need a selection examination and so we have to continue with the PSLE. So the Member for Moulmein can rightly say that the PSLE will be reintroduced.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Hon. Minister of State has not replied to the second point that I raised. It is with regard to girls in Secondary I and II having to attend a three-hour session at the workshop once a week. In that respect, would the Ministry consider scrapping it or give the parents an option? I pointed out that the parents wanted their daughters to take home economics because it would be beneficial to them in their future years when they marry and have their own families. Home economics is a good course for them to learn in their teens, especially when they are in Secondary I and II. At the moment. I am given to understand that at the end of a two-year stint at the workshops, the girls are given an aptitude test. I am also given to understand that many girls prefer to fail rather than pass the test because they do not like to pursue technical education.

On that note, will the Minister of State consider this point? Because many parents are not only concerned with this matter but they are sending their daughters to do workshop practice with some dissatisfaction over this question because the girls are not given an opportunity to opt for home economics. At the same time, they feel that this two-year stint at the workshops is just a waste of time, because after all their children would only acquire a basic technical skill, maybe filing, woodwork, metal work or electricity.

The Chairman: Mr Ng, there is no need for you to repeat. You have been saying that many times over.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I have to repeat because the Senior Minister of State has not taken note of what I have mentioned, and I want an answer now.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, I could not reply to the Member for Punggol just now because I did not have enough time. As regards Secondary I and II students who are required to go through three hours a week of workshop practice, this applies to 100% of the boys and 50% of the girls. It is true that some of them may have to travel some distance to the central workshops as we cannot afford to have the facilities in each and every school. This is for economic reasons. The origin of getting these girls exposed to workshop practice was that eventually when they become mothers they would have a better understanding of the importance of industrial training. And besides this workshop training, they are also required to attend home economics classes.

Sir, I agree with the Member for Punggol that most girls drop out from workshop training after completing Secondary II because it could be that they do not want to go into the technical stream. He has a very good point. We are reviewing this matter with a view to allowing the girls an option whether they want to carry on with the workshop practice. But at the moment though they are doing workshop practice, they are also doing home economics.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I would like the Minister of State to reply to some questions I raised just now. I want to know whether the teachers' organisations would be consulted in the formulation of education policy.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, we will consult the teachers, including the teachers' organisations. In fact, it was announced by my Minister in his speech that we will consult as much as we can and as far as possible. Of course, consultation does not necessarily mean that it will end up with accepting the representation from the teachers' bodies or from principals, because all aspects have to be taken into consideration.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Two questions, Sir. First, whatever you call it, whether it is the restructured education system or ill-structured education system, it is no longer of interest to us now as the whole thing has been dropped. But since the six- or seven-year system has been dropped, why are teachers still required to attend so-called evaluation courses? I have got a letter from a group of primary school teachers in the Stamford Constituency saying that they are still attending evaluation courses. Why is this going on?

On the second question, the Minister has given a free hand to principals to adopt or to do away with the PPP. Will this free hand be given to principals on other policy matters too?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, I am not aware that teachers have to attend evaluation courses. If the Parliamentary Secretary can refer the case to me, I will look into it.

As regards giving the principals a free hand, of course, this has to be within the policy of the Ministry. Otherwise we will have many different policies.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: The principals have a free hand on policy. Is this true or not?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: It is within certain guidelines. The Ministry issues certain guidelines and the principals use their discretion in the implementation of that policy. They do not decide on policy.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister of State's answer to the question of six- and seven-year primary education seems to be wrong. According to my understanding, the curriculum committee has already revised the six-year syllabus to a seven-year syllabus. For example, there is a textbook graded Book Seven. If it is true that the seven-year system has been abolished, why should there be a Book Seven textbook?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, at the time the restructured education system was introduced, there was a move to publish a textbook for the seventh year. But as far as I know no such textbook has been published. As I said, we are not having any seven-year primary education; so there is no need for that textbook. The Ministry of Education definitely has not published a Book Seven textbook. There may be some arrangement during the interim period to redistribute the curriculum into seven years, but no such book has been published.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister of State answered that this book has not been published or issued to the public. In fact, the schools are using this Book Seven textbook.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, not as far as I know.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, before I ask leave to withdraw my amendment, may I just make two points. I think there is a great deal of confusion about six years and seven years primary education. If there is confusion in this House, I think a clear statement from the Ministry to the public, to the parents aid to the teachers is called for. I myself have received a letter along the same lines. It seems to indicate quite clearly that we need a very, very clear statement about what is going on.

An Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Conceicao: My second point is this. I would like to follow in the footsteps of my Hon. Friend from Whampoa in regretting that in Catholic schools, it is being insisted that sterilisation certificates will have to be accepted for priority to be given to holders of such certificates in respect of admission of their children to schools. It would seem, Sir, not unreasonable for consideration to be given to the sensibilities of authorities in Catholic schools in this matter. The Senior Minister of State has not once, but more than once, referred to ethics, sense of values, moral aspects. It is this concern that has led to the position stated by the Catholic Archbishop of Singapore. It seems anomalous when you pronounce an article of moral belief in the classroom to act against this belief in the schools' administration office. We also talk of a special personality given to schools. We want to develop certain characteristics. Some of the schools have for such characteristics certain stated beliefs and I think it is not unreasonable to take these into consideration.

With that, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong -

(2) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1008.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, amendment (2).

Mr Teong Eng Siong: I am not moving.

The Chairman: Mr Ang Nam Piau, amendment (3).

Mr Ang Nam Piau (Thomson): I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Mr P. Govindaswamy, amendment (3).

6.00 p.m.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BAA 1105.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether the authorities are aware of the hardship faced by parents in relation to the high cost of school books. Before the school term closed last year, some schools handed out to students book list with prices quoted for the books. But when schools reopened, the prices of some of the books went up by more than 100%. When the book sellers were questioned, they replied that freight charges had gone up and that their books were new stocks. How is it that these increases were permitted? Who authorised the sale of books, and who controlled the prices quoted in the price list issued by the school? Parents have been complaining about this, but nothing could be done about the increased prices.

From the Budget estimates, there are 1 59 posts of non-teaching staff required by the Ministry of Education. I understand that at present most of the posts are filled by temporary clerks. I wonder why these temporary clerks are employed on a month-to-month basis. They have no incentive and they have nothing to look forward to. Therefore, their turnover rate is very high. How can a school work properly when the clerks are not emplaced on the permanent establishment? As a result of this, many school clerks have resigned and sometimes the teachers have to take over the duties.

Another problem is that the relief teachers are employed on a day-to-day basis to fill the vacancies. These young school leavers are unqualified and inexperienced. They do not have any sense of attachment to the schools nor do they have any loyalty for the simple reason that they could become unemployed overnight. They take up the job because they want to get extra pocket money, and in the meanwhile they are looking around for some other jobs. We are leaving the future of our young citizens in the hands of these inexperienced, undedicated young relief teachers. Is this the right thing to do? Why cannot our retiring teachers be given an extension of two to three years to meet the shortage of teachers, instead of depending on relief teachers? I am sure that many retiring teachers would certainly accept this offer, if they are given a chance.

Sir, it is my fervent hope that in future the senior officials of this Ministry would consider the views of the principals and the teachers first before introducing any change in education policy. I also hope the senior civil servants in the Ministry would contain their enthusiasm about certain ideas which have cropped up in their minds, probably in their wild dreams.

Finally, I understand that in some schools, the Vigilante Corps members who are using the premises as their branches at times misuse the place. For example, they have been known to damage school property, like tuck-shop furniture, displacing classroom desks, throwing cigarette butts into toilets and choking the sinks, etc. I have also heard that some of them who come very early to the school showed no respect for the National Anthem. They were seen moving around while the National Anthem was being played. And in co-education schools some of them went to the classrooms and started to change into their uniforms openly. What I want to know is whether steps have been taken to discipline these inconsiderate members of the V.C. I do not blame all of them. But these complaints do come from some schools. I am told that some school teachers have reported the matter to the superiors in the V.C, who had promised to advise their members. But they seem to pay only lip service. Will the administrators see that remedial steps are taken in those schools with problems of this nature?

6.08 p.m.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, on the question of prices of textbooks, I would like to inform the Member that principals are authorised to look after the sale of school textbooks. They are issued with lists of books and stationery with prices stated, well before the end of the school year.

The price of textbooks is one of the main factors to be considered in the selection of textbooks for use by any school. Mindful of the price increase of certain textbooks, the Ministry has carried out a survey of textbook prices and at the same time held informal discussions with representatives of the Singapore Booksellers' Association and the Singapore Book Publishers' Association. It was found that 80.4% of our school textbooks had not increased in price, while the rest, comprising 19.6% of the textbooks, registered an increase in price from 1% to 20%. No textbook had gone up 100% in price. It should be noted that all-primary school textbooks are locally produced and imported textbooks are used for upper secondary and Pre-U classes only. The increase in price of imported textbooks is imposed by the publishers in the country of origin and we have no control over this.

The Ministry of Education and school principals are very much aware of the hardship experienced by some parents in relation to the high cost of textbooks. Thus, a free textbook loan scheme is operated to help all needy pupils to be provided with textbooks. The Educational Publications Bureau, a non-profit organisation under the Ministry, is producing school textbooks and other educational materials at low cost as a means to stabilise book prices. The NTUC's Fairdeal is also doing its part by buying textbooks and stationery in bulk arid selling them to school pupils as cheaply as possible.

On the question of temporary clerks, to-date the Ministry has only six temporary clerks. These six clerks are appointed on a temporary basis, as they fail to meet the requirements of the Public Service Commission for permanent appointment. As the number of temporary clerks is small, they do not pose a problem in the schools.

As regards relief teachers, admittedly they have their shortcomings. These are to be expected. However, they are performing a useful service in the schools. We cannot entirely dispense with their services because they are required to fill casual vacancies arising from substantive teachers who go on leave, sick leave, etc. Relief teachers who possess the qualifications and are interested in making teaching their career may undergo training at the Institute of Education and be considered for a permanent appointment in the Education service.

Touching on the question of extension of service for retiring teachers, this Ministry is already taking action to extend, wherever possible, the employment of retiring teachers. For 1975 a total of 119 teachers had their services extended or were reemployed.

On the question of Vigilante Corps members using the school premises, the Member for Anson is correct in pointing out that some of them have caused damage to school property, littering classrooms and toilets, and other acts of indiscipline. When this was brought to the Ministry's attention by school principals, it was taken up recently with the Assistant Commissioner in charge of Police National Servicemen and the Vigilante Corps. The Assistant Commissioner has taken a serious view of this matter and the Ministry is given to understand that disciplinary action will be instituted against those found guilty. In addition, close liaison will be established between principals concerned and officers in charge of each of these training centres in order that problems of mutual concern, such as discipline of these uniformed officers, cleanliness and damages to school property may be resolved promptly.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I would avail myself of this opportunity to ask the Senior Minister of State a question, namely, the redundant teachers in Chinese schools, I shall be grateful if he will inform this House how he is going to deal with this problem.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: (In Mandarin): Sir, just now when the Member for Sembawang raised this question, I did not have sufficient time to give him a full answer. According to the information I have here, there are 57 redundant teachers in the Chinese primary schools and only one in a secondary school. Altogether 58 Chinese school teachers are redundant. They will be sent to other schools to share in certain classes. It amounts to certain schools having one or two extra teachers. But when some teachers retire, they will fill up the vacancies caused, otherwise there will be some adjustment in posting.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State to answer the third question that I have raised. The question is: will he consider giving the principals a higher salary scale?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: We recognise the importance of the work performed by school principals, and we are currently looking into how to accord recognition of this importance.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Will the Ministry of Education control the price of school textbooks?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: We will do as much as we can to help, but I do not think we can really control, in the sense of the word.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: In view of the explanation of the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CAA 1105*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Lai Tha Chai, Yeo Choo Kok, Sia Khoon Seong and Phey Yew Kok.)

When we note that corrective and remedial measures to the education system have been taken to correct the defects which have persisted through the years before they are identified, I am led to the belief that there never has been an effective system of monitoring the effects of education policy and implementation. For instance, now we know that the additional learning load of bilingualism upon children was too much for them. If there had been a reliable feedback by the officers of the inspectorate, who are all professionals, the slide into illiteracy would have been apparent.

What is wrong with the inspectorate of the Ministry? The inspectorate is the unit which should be able to quickly sense the effectiveness or otherwise of education policies. Assuming that this facility and expertise exist in the inspectorate, then the education and development officers (assuming that the education and development officers have fed back relevant information to a high level in the Ministry), the question may be asked, why then has there not been any impact on those people at the high levels in the Ministry who are in charge of policy? I feel that the inspectorate operates within limitations. Being a unit within the service (and they are constrained on educational development officers to make realistic independent views), to this extent the system of monitoring effects on education policies suffer.

6.15 p.m.

Earlier. Sir, I referred to a professional mechanism which operates in the Ministry and I called upon the Minister to be alert towards the operation of this in-built mechanism in his Ministry. This mechanism is barely discernible most times, but once in a while it shows itself. Let me give an example. In the Budget debate last year when I stressed to the then Minister for Education that a lot was wrong with the system. I said that "pupils' performance was falling, that pupils cannot count, speak or spell correctly,' (Hansard, Vol. 34, col. 1021). And I asked the Minister for his views. The Minister obviously answered on the basis of what the professionals in the Ministry had advised him. So the Minister denied that there were these defects and referred me to the Bullock Report on Reading which applied to the situation in the United Kingdom. The Report denied that "the standard of English was going down but that the demand on the standard of English was going up." (Hansard, Vol. 34, col, 1024), Sir, I am still wondering how this Report is relevant in our situation,

A few months later the Deputy Prime Minister revealed the extent to which our school leavers are illiterate and the fact that illiteracy is acknowledged by all today. This is the mechanism in the professional side, which I am alluding to, which operates very insidiously. The Minister of State himself has not been spared. He has unwittingly allowed himself to be ensnared by this similar mechanism.

In my subsidiary question to him on the evaluation of the Primary Pilot Project last year, he endorsed the project and stated his intention to incorporate the project method into our education system. (Hansard, Vol. 34, col. 131 7). I do not think he said it with the kind of reservation that he has intimated to the House. I asked the Minister again whether he really intended to incorporate this project method into our education system because, frankly speaking, I am apprehensive. I made it a point to try and gather as much knowledge myself on the effectiveness and efficacy of this project method. It is an integrated system of learning where one learns the 3-Rs all at a time Arithmetic. Reading, Writing - on apparatus prepared by the teacher. When I asked the question it was still a pilot project at that time and it was known to the professionals who were advising the Minister that about 250 upward schools had already been operating this project method -- which is a strange kind of pilot system, if you ask me, Sir.

I would imagine that a pilot system would be limited to a few schools and an assessment and evaluation made before a decision is taken as to its usefulness or otherwise for the purpose of improving the education system. I feel that the project method of learning is unrealistic and unworkable for our needs and does not suit our educational imperatives.

Sir, I would like to touch on the need to stir some areas in the Ministry of Education. In the Estimates, the lay-out of the Ministry of Education is impressive. But the question is how coordinated are the efforts of these units in getting the system remedied as fast as possible and going. In fact, the Minister may not know it but complaints have reached me that some of his officers are still retaining foot-stools in their offices to rest their feet on as they undertake their work. Whatever be the merits of foot-stools arid their contribution to the grey matter, I think that these are work excesses which we can do without.

Finally, I would ask the Minister to respond to two issues which I raised in my opening observation under the Minister's subhead but which I grant the fact that he did not have time to do so. First. I would like to have the Minister's response to the desirability of reactivating parent-teacher association for the purpose of jelling obligations in education on the parents and teachers and to stimulate an awareness of how these obligations may be effectively undertaken. I think that the approach to parent-teacher association by the Ministry has been a nominal approach and I see a scope for the parent-teacher association in Singapore to make a substantial contribution to education especially in the primary school.

The other issue which I would ask the Minister to respond is the observation which I made: to try and recover in the system the form teacher situation and the reduction of subject teaching in the primary school which, as I maintained, is dissipating the intimate relationship between the teacher and the pupil.

Mr Lai Tha Chai (Henderson): (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, before Parliament sat on this Budget debate the Education Minister announced outside this House a new education policy. Before I speak on the question of education here I would like to praise the Minister for having changed well and done well.

I feel that over the past few years some educationists seem to be involved in a mountain climbing race, which is a favourite sport in the West. But our local mountaineers, however, are not as experienced as the Westerners. On climbing to higher and higher levels they have to work their way through a winding course, and in doing so they lose their bearing, and finally also lose their way. I have been musing to myself that this exercise in copying and aping educational development in foreign countries, without taking into account our local conditions and practical reality, what will it turn our teeming youngsters into? What will they become after this training?

We know that in this multi-racial and multi-cultural society of variegated backgrounds, education is a very big and thorny problem to handle. But it does teach us one lesson, and that is, if administrative instructions issued in the morning are changed in the evening, and innovations of teaching methods are churned out every so often as described by my colleagues here, then this kind of ad hoc exigency measures is not the way to plan our education programme on a long term basis. Now the Minister for Education has decided to carry out a thorough reform as indicated by the Senior Minister of State in his reply relating to the six-year or seven-year primary education. One characteristic is that the principals are given certain power of discretion in respect of administrative matters. This enhances the social status of the teachers. This is a good beginning as it has strengthened the confidence of the principals and the teachers in general and the parents in particular. In this favourable atmosphere of confidence, those people who have leadership potential, those teachers who have administrative capability, and those educationists who are good teachers, will then come forward to give of their best in education and lead the teaching profession forward for the benefit of thousands of our school children. In this way, they will gradually get the respect of the people in our country.

In recent years, we can see a strange tendency in Singapore. Good teachers are getting lax; good principals are resigning; and good schools are becoming fewer and fewer. As a result, parents are scrambling to get places for their children in good schools. If they succeed, they feel happy and have peace of mind, knowing that they have done something for their children. If they fail, they become dejected and constantly worry over the fact that they could not succeed in doing something good for their children, And for this, they spend sleepless nights.

Sir, to my colleagues here in this House and to my friends outside, I say to them: as parents, do you not hope that your children will some day become important figures, endowed with rare attributes, and be superior to others? This is the common aspiration of all parents. From the educational point of view, I feel that if a school is able to train only a very small group of talented children and weed Out a lot of those with a low Ia, then education is a failure. On the other hand, if a school is able to train a lot of children and weed out only a few with low IQ, then true education would have been achieved. In fact, a good school will produce many more talents than stupid people.

I can give some statistics on examination results achieved by some 20 schools over the past five years, 10 of which are good schools and the other 10 are not so good schools. I have categorised these 20 schools into five groups, and the percentage of passes for these five groups over the past five years is as follows: First Group of Good Schools Percentage of Passes 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 1971 94.8 93.4 95.3 98.7 98.2 1972 96.6 89.1 93.5 98.8 98.8 1973 97.8 98.2 97.1 99.4 97 1974 95.9 95.4 96.6 99.4 98.2 1975 94.2 96.4 93 98.9 100

I can give more statistics for the other five schools but I will withhold them for the time being.

I now come to the list of poor schools. These are the results for the second group of poor schools: Second Group of Poor Schools Percentage of Passes 1st 2nd 3rd 1971 44.4 43.3 42.1 1972 40.7 41 39.2 1973 43.4 44.6 39.1 1974 36.5 40.9 32.2 1975 37.6 40.9 31.6

The Chairman: Mr Lai, are you going to read out the percentage figures of all 20 schools?

Mr Lai Tha Chai: No. I am only giving the figures of five of each category of schools.

The Chairman: I think you have made your point, and there is no need to carry on giving your figures.

Mr Lai Tha Chai: (In Mandarin): All right, Sir, I have a list of 20 schools and I have given some statistics to make my point. But if the Minister is interested. I can even give him the names of the schools, However. I do not wish to disclose the names of those poor schools and so put them to shame publicly.

Sir, from the figures that I have given we can see clearly that the first category of schools is successful. There are more than 90% passes. These schools should be publicly commended. The second category of schools are failures because their school results average 40%. This is a serious matter that we should not overlook. I suggest that the Ministry of Education should draw up certain criteria for awards or reproaches to serve as guidance for the principals and teachers and to ensure that good principals be given at least some incentives of post allowance -

6.30 p.m.

As regards those teachers or principals whose bodies are in the schools but whose hearts are in business, they should not be retained in the Education service so that no harm may be done to the school or to themselves. On the contrary, we should ask them to join the commercial sector to give rein to their ambition to make more money for the country rather than remain in the schools. On the other hand, we should totally reform the Institute of Education, raising both the quality and the quantity of its contents. so as to ensure a new breed of educators who will take over the task of education from us.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, before I Come to the point which I wish to make, I would like to compliment the Senior Minister of State for having so valiantly stood up and defended the education policies that were formulated in the last decade or so, but which he has had no part in their formulation. I feel somewhat sorry for him in that today we have to crucify him for the misdeeds for which he is not responsible. Having said that, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to -

The Chairman: Further crucify him?

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Yes. I wish to further crucify him, Recently, the present Minister for Education - - you will notice. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, that I have used the word "present" because of the frequent changes in the appointment of Minister for Education, and this clarification will indicate which Minister I am referring to the present Minister for Education made an announcement recently to the effect that principals and teachers will be consulted before new policies are formulated. I think the intention behind such an announcement is commendable. But what I am afraid of is this: how do we implement a good intention when we have 20,000 teachers? I think the fault with the Ministry of Education is not because there is a lack of good ideas, but very often the fault is that these ideas are not properly implemented. They are so badly implemented that even though they are good ideas, in the end they have resulted in a lot of ill-effects.

Coming back to the point about consulting principals and teachers. I just want to say this. It is no use making a public declaration of intent. More important is, how will the Ministry of Education impose this policy on 20,000 teachers and principals? Is it the intention of the Ministry to call them up in groups and discuss the issues with them from time to time? Is there an organisation or machinery in which there are capable officers who are able to lead the discussions. A discussion must be a two-way affair. I feel that this is an idea which has not been given very careful consideration in its implementation.

This is the impression I get just now when the Senior Minister of State, in replying to the Member for Jurong on the question of consulting unions, said that it need not necessarily end up with consulting the unions. This reflects the lack of consideration of what unions can do in these matters. This is an accepted practice in more advanced countries when there are organisations, especially if they represent members of interested groups. They are the best' representatives with whom one can consult. One can seek the views of the teachers' unions because through their organisation, experience and the feedback which they get from their members, they have a wealth of ideas which one can tap and fruitfully engage in discussions with them so that better decisions can be made in regard to many matters that will come up before the Ministry for consideration. Not to recognise the role of consultation that the teachers' unions can play is to ignore a very important channel of communication. It proves my point that very little consideration is given to the implementation of ideas.

I do not know why there is a reluctance to accept the unions with open arms in matters like this. Is it because they are afraid that the unions are able to show up their faults and, therefore, as far as possible, it is better to keep them out? It is good public relations to consult. However, besides the declaration of intent, in actual practice there is no consultation. I saw the Senior Minister of State nod his head when I asked whether there is such an organisation for consultation. I say this is also another eyewash. How would you organise 20,000 teachers effectively, solicit their opinion, and make them understand the rationale behind some of the education policies? How would the Education Ministry get this done with 20,000 teachers if it intends to have a proper and effective consultation?

Mr Seah Mui Kok: Meaningful consultation.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Yes, a meaningful consultation, as the Member for Bukit Ho Swee has kindly helped me with the correct word.

Mr Phey Yew Kok (Boon Teck): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the trade union movement in Singapore clearly recognises that the social and material well-being of our society is irrevocably linked with our total development. This is a lesson which we have learned, unlike trade union movements elsewhere, many of which have become enmeshed in economic, social and political concepts and practices which are irrelevant to the harsh and naked realities of today's troubled world. What we have built so far must be sustained and strengthened for the future lies in the hands of our young people who should be equipped with a deeper and more profound understanding of the facts of life.

I would commend to the Ministry of Education to consider including in the curriculum of secondary schools, both at Secondary IV and pre-university levels, a subject on the trade union movement in Singapore, embracing such topics as its history, its economic role and function in a modern society, its responsibilities and obligations and on labour laws and our industrial relations machinery. Many of our youngsters after leaving school will find their way to industrial and commercial enterprises, while some of the more fortunate and bright ones will, after tertiary education, enter into business or become managers and executives. Whether they become workers or executives, they will be better able to understand and appreciate their respective roles in the world of commence and industry, develop a greater sense of industrial and social discipline through the subjects that I have mentioned and thereby be able to contribute to the betterment of our society by directing their ambitions and values to larger and higher social ends. If anyone raises his eyebrows in dismay or dismisses this suggestion as trivial. I would like to tell him that subjects on trade unions and labour laws are taught in high schools in some countries. For instance. I am told that in Japan high schools teach students these subjects and one of the end results is the well-known skill amid disciplined dedication of the Japanese worker.

I believe that we can instil in our youngsters the right attitudes and values by including in the secondary school curriculum such subjects. For in the ultimate the value of a person, whether he is a worker or a business executive, is measured by what he can give in a disciplined manner to our economic and social progress and prosperity.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, on the points raised by the Member for Serangoon Gardens, I would like to inform the House that the Ministry of Education is now in the process of setting up a feedback unit to monitor the results of any policy which has been implemented. This will also answer the question raised by the Member for Moulmein as to how to consult. Once this unit is set up, then of course it would be easier to monitor the principals' and teachers' views, especially the rationale behind the various objections or support for any policy. I fully agree that we need a feedback in order to make modifications to any policies.

On the question of illiteracy, I would like to say that there will always be a certain percentage of people who are illiterate, even in a monolingual society in advanced countries where education is free and compulsory. The recent statements made by the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister merely drew the attention of the people, especially the Ministry of Education, to some aspects of illiteracy which we have not perhaps given sufficient attention We are now directing our attention to this problem so as to minimise illiteracy in our population.

On the question of parent-teacher association raised by the Member for Serangoon Gardens, it is a good idea. We will encourage the setting up or such associations whenever possible. But It would appear that there are not many such associations being set up at the moment.

The Member for Henderson has pointed out that a large number of good principals and teachers have resigned from the education service. I would like to give some statistics in case a wrong impression is created. In 1975 there were only 306 resignations, giving a total of 1.7%. In 1974 there were 350 resignations, giving a total of 1.9%. Members will notice that there were less resignations in 1975 than in 1974. In 1 973 there were 379 resignations. giving a total of 2.1%, which was even higher. In other words, the trend in resignation is coming down. It is not true that the teachers are running away.

6.45 p.m.

Sir, I fully agree with the Member that good teachers and good principals should be remunerated or should be commended because sometimes it is not always possible to adequately remunerate a person in terms of money, especially in the field of education. Wherever possible and wherever we can identify, I fully agree that we must give them due recognition for the good work done. So if Members come across any particular principal or teacher who has done very well and has not been discovered, please let me know and I will personally look into it.

I would like to clarify one point made by the Member for Moulmein. He quoted my words saying that when I replied to the Member for Jurong, I said that it v/as not necessary to consult the teachers' unions. I did not say that. I merely said that the consultation does not necessarily mean that it may end up with their views being accepted. I did not say that it is not necessary to consult the unions.

Sir, on the question raised by the Member for Boon Teck whether we could include trade unionism as a subject in secondary and pre-university classes, I would like to say that it is not feasible at the moment, especially when there are so many complaints of overloading of the curricula on the students and whatnots. I would like to let him know that the general idea of trade unionism is discussed in current affairs and the study of economics, in the upper secondary and pre-U classes. But it is not taught as a subject.

Mr Ho See Beng: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, it cannot be denied that the turnover rate of teachers has been high. This leads to a shortage of teachers, especially in the secondary schools. I do not know why, but it could be due to some mistake or due to the policy of the Ministry of Education. But the situation is that, on the one hand, while we are short of teachers with tertiary educational qualifications, on the other hand, we find that these teachers with tertiary educational qualifications have been asked to teach in primary schools instead of secondary schools. This is one question which I would like the Senior Minister of State to clarify.

Another matter is that we have accepted professionals from Taiwan in the field of architecture, engineering and so on. But for teaching, our Government has refused to recognise the Taiwan graduate. I understand that a number of Taiwan graduates have not been allowed to teach in the secondary schools, and this has created a bad feeling among the Taiwan graduates who are now still teaching in the primary schools.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, there are a few graduates, both local and foreign, teaching in primary schools. Most of these graduates have been accepted for training in the Institute of Education specifically for primary school teaching.

As for Taiwan degree holders not being allowed to teach in secondary schools, this is the practice all along. Some of the graduates may have the ability to teach in the secondary schools but the point is how are we to select and get the right person to teach in the secondary schools, especially when we have an excess of Chinese language graduates. What we are short of is English language graduates who are able to teach the English language in secondary schools.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would just like to request the Senior Minister of State to clarify certain matters in regard to bilingualism. I have already quoted the Prime Minister in my speech just now. The Prime Minister said that after 15 years' heart-searching he has decided on the bilingual education policy using English and Chinese or the mother tongue on equal terms as a policy for education in Singapore. Today, is the use of the bilingual education policy declining? The Senior Minister of State is now shaking his head.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: No.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Of course, I am glad to hear that the answer is "No".

Sir, I would like to ask, or rather make a suggestion. Can the two languages be given equal exposure time, i.e. 50% for the mother tongue and 50% for English? Perhaps only in this way can we eradicate the long existing barriers among the various types of schools in Singapore and mould a common type of Singapore school in the end. In my view, there should be no English schools. Chinese schools. Malay schools or Tamil schools as such, There should be no such distinction in our schools, but Singapore schools.

Sir, we also understand that there are students who do not have the capacity to learn two languages, particularly English as a second language. Having accepted that, can we say that in the common Singapore schools we can set up a system in which emphasis will be given to learning the mother tongue but the second language, namely, English can be used as a common medium of instruction?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, just now when I answered in English, maybe there was some distortion in the interpretation. So if I may now speak in Mandarin to answer the Member for Paya Lebar's questions.

Basically, there is no change in our bilingual policy. There has only been some emphasis placed on certain aspects of the policy as a corrective measure. The Member for Paya Lebar asked whether equal exposure time could be given to both the mother tongue and the second language in pursuit of the Singapore type of school espoused by him. I must say that although the schools in Singapore belong to different language streams, they are, in fact, gradually moving towards one common type. We cannot enforce the change rapidly. The reasons are quite obvious. There is a shortage of suitable teachers: furthermore, the pace cannot be enforced just by making some regulations that cannot be carried out. But it is obvious that the trend is going towards that direction.

Mr Phey Yew Kok: Sir, I regret to hear from the Senior Minister of State that at this moment he is not prepared to entertain my request, But I must say that if Singapore is to continue with our industrialisation, it is very important to us that our secondary school children should know the ABC of our Employment Act so that when they leave school they have the right attitude and are more disciplined. I would also say that I am sure that unless the Senior Minister of State thinks that the children in schools are really overloaded, as mentioned by quite a number of my colleagues here, I feel that this is more important than asking our school children to save in the Post Office Savings Bank.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, I fully realise the importance of trade unionism. As I said just now, this is being discussed in schools in the General Paper because, among other things, they have to understand current affairs; but not to the extent of making it a separate subject as you need fairly seasoned minds to understand it. At upper secondary and pre-.U level, I feel that the curriculum is already overloaded. I realise the importance of trade unionism and whenever possible they should discuss it under current affairs.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V her educed by $10 in respect of subhead CBA 1109.

Sir, in order to further promote education, the Ministry has set up an Educational Media Service whose main function is to provide educational aids in the form of ETV programmes. The provision in the Main and Development Estimates for this Service is $2,131,500 which is not a small sum of money. Of course, to enable the students to better understand the teaching content, the use of these modern scientific teaching aids make up for what is lacking in teaching materials. This is something that I will not be up against. However. Sir, if we spend so large a sum of money every year and still do not know its effects, it is high time that the situation was reviewed.

Sir, according to the representations which many principals and teachers made to me, the content and screening times of the ETV programmes are not exactly in keeping with the learning progress of the students. As a result, the students who attend ETV periods do not benefit. On the contrary, it is a waste of time. So many schools simply do not allow students to attend the ETV periods.

Sir, I know that the ETV section has been very conscientious in producing educational films. The standard is also quite high. But having spent so much money and so much effort, if in the end the films produced are not effectively made use of by the students, it is really a waste of time and money. I do not know whether the Ministry of Education will make duplicates of the TV films produced by ETV section and loan them to schools which need them.

7.00 p.m.

I understand that many schools have facilities like video tape recorders, So there will be no difficulty in the use of video tapes for such purposes. If we can do this, then the educational films produced by the ETV section could be screened in keeping with the pace and progress of teaching. In this way, the amount of money we spend will be the more worthwhile, and the students will also derive great benefits from these educational aids.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, the Member for Jurong said that the content in the ETV programmes is not very suitable, as commented upon by some principals. I am not sure whether he is right or wrong, but the evaluation exercise carried out by the Ministry with the assistance of the Data Processing Unit of the Ministry of Finance indicated just the reverse. The programmes telecast by SEMS (Singapore Education and Media Service) were all intra-curricular programmes and directly related to the curriculum.

At the primary school level they enjoy an acceptance rating of over 90%, that is, according to the evaluation. And at the secondary level, a rating of nearly 100%. So I am at a loss to know who is right. At the junior college/pre-university level, an acceptance rating of about 90% is indicated. Unless in the evaluation exercise the wrong information is fed into the computer, which I am sure is quite unlikely, these are all the indications. Maybe if the Member has any specific information, he can draw my attention to it so that I can make further checks on it.

On the question of the frequency of its use, that is, the time of the broadcast, there were a number of inherent problems that make it difficult for some schools to utilise every ETV programme. Examples are the difficulty in the time-tabling, the large numbers of classes, and the difficulty in matching the ETV programme to the sequence of lessons taught. This is genuine.

On the question of increased use of video tape, video recorders are, as he had rightly said, introduced to schools. Certain schools have their video tape recorders as well as television sets. SEMS send out Video officers to schools to assist them in the utilisation of the video recorders and, in addition, a special programme on utilisation of the video recorders was produced for schools. Schools are encouraged to video-tape the selected ETV programmes in order that the inherent problems mentioned above, such as the timing and the progress difference can be overcome. If SEMS is going to produce all the video tapes for borrowing, that may not be financially possible for the Unit. However, video taping is very easy. As long as you have the video recorder to play back, you can tape the programme from the television.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I did not suggest that the contents of ETV films are not very good. On the contrary. I said that this ETV section has been very conscientious in its production of educational films. However, because the programming times and the contents are not in keeping with the learning progress of the students, therefore, many schools do not find much practical use for them. Since the Minister of State said that as a result of scientific progress some schools have these video tape recorders and TV sets and so on, I hope he can allot more funds to more schools to buy such aids so that the problems I mentioned will be solved. In view of his reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CCA 1111.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a must for teachers and pupils to involve themselves in some sort of extra curricular activities in the schools. This is in line with the policy of building a rugged and robust society. The different extra curricular activities are of varying degrees. Some may be tough and others may be easy or simple. The pupils and teachers have to carry out their ECA outside the normal school hours. This means that the time meant for studying is sometimes taken away because of these activities.

The teachers who are involved in the uniformed groups like the Police Cadet Corps, Army Cadet Corps, St John's Brigade etc, find it difficult to resign from these groups after involving themselves for many years. It seems that once they are engaged in a particular ECA, they are unable to get out, though participation is voluntary. They themselves are in suspense and do not know exactly when they will be released. Are they to be released only when they retire from the service? May I ask the Minister why is this condition for release so strict? Because of this condition, the recruitment of new members to the uniformed groups is rather poor. Also one of the reasons for the poor response to join the Institute of Education is due to this move, as all new recruits must undergo training in one of the uniformed groups. Such conditions are obstructing the recruitment of teachers. May I get the Minister's view on the subject?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Mr Ahmad Mattar): Sir, it is time for me to relieve my Senior Minister of State who has been working very hard since 2.30 this afternoon.

It is not quite correct to say that officers of uniformed movements are not allowed to resign. In 1974 and 1975 alone a total of 1 63 officers of the National Cadet Corps and the National Police Cadet Corps were allowed to resign. These movements are accorded national importance and the demand for enrolment by the pupils is overwhelming. But these movements are seriously affected by a current shortage of 350 officers. All means of encouraging more teachers to join have been tried out. Training courses are held during term time, the parade and camp allowances have been raised, promotion within the movements has been speeded up, and the organisation has been revised to raise morale, but the demands on officers are heavy. As long as there is a shortage of officers, coupled with a high demand by pupils, it is not wise to allow any and every officer to resign upon request. However, a system is now being worked out by the councils of the National Cadet Corps and the National Police Cadet Corps on how officers may be allowed to resign.

On the question raised by the Member that poor response from people to join the Institute of Education is due to the move that all new recruits must undergo training in one of the uniformed groups, I am sorry to say that I have checked with the Registrar of the Institute of Education this morning and learned that there is no such policy as far as the Institute of Education is concerned. What has happened is that, as part of their recruitment campaign, officers of the extracurricular activities centre have been to the Institute of Education to give talks and lectures to trainees in the hope that they would join the movement when they graduate from the Institute of Education and are selected to be teachers in schools. So it is not true to say that it is compulsory for the Institute of Education trainees to take up one of these movements as an activity.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Can the Parliamentary Secretary assure me that they can resign any time they want?

Mr Ahmad Mattar: As long as there is a shortage. I am afraid it will not be so easy, if I may put it, until we have overcome the shortage. As far as I know, in these two movements, the National Cadet Corps and the National Police Cadet Corps, we are trying to build up a corps of NCO leaders at student level. Once this corps of NCO leaders at student level has been established, hopefully these NCO student leaders will overcome the shortage. When that time comes, I think resignation may be a little easier. But until then, we hope that the officers concerned would cooperate with the movements for a little longer.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Si-, the Parliamentary Secretary has assured the House that when they have overcome the problem of shortage, they will be allowed to resign. Is that right?

Mr Ahmad Mattar: That is right. Sir.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, in view of the explanation of the Parliamentary Secretary, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement - Mr J. F Conceicao: (7) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of item (c) of subhead AAA 2420. (8) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of item (c) of subhead AAA 2430 Mr L. P. Rodrigo: (9) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of item (h) of subhead AAA 3020. Haji Mohd. Ariff bin Suradi: Mr Ho Kah Leong: (10) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 3020.

The Chairman: Mr Conceicao, Mr Rodrigo, and Haji Mohd. Ariff are not here. Mr Ho, Amendment (10).

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 3020.

Sir, I would like to ask the Minister a few questions. First, can he inform the House the amount of allowance for each student in the Singapore University and the Nanyang University for FY 76?

Secondly, as we know, Nanyang University has improved its standard and it is embarking towards the status of a national university, when it will take in students from all streams of education. The Singapore University is enjoying this status. I would like to ask whether the Government will amalgamate the two universities into one national university with two campuses, one at Kent Ridge and the other at Jurong. In this way, we can avoid the duplication of academic courses in these two universities as at present, and it will be better able to train our people for future manpower requirements.

The third question concerns the Southeast Asian Research Institute. I do not know what has been done in the past year, but I would ask whether this Institute can be incorporated into one of the two universities, or whether it should remain an independent body.

7.15 p.m.

The fourth question is in regard to Youth Associations. We know that the People's Association has embarked on an extensive youth movement and many community centres have set up their own youth sections or youth corps which also have extensive scope of activities. In these circumstances, should we allocate funds to assist the Youth Associations? Could these Youth Associations be incorporated into the People's Association so that they need not be an independent body?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, on the question of the subsidy per student for Nanyang University and the University of Singapore for FY 76, I regret to say that it is not possible to provide information for FY 76 since the actual increase in expenditure for the two universities as well as the student enrolment are still not available. Similarly, the information for FY 75 is dependent on the finalisation of accounts due to be closed on 31st March, 1976.

However, I can give the Member some figures for 1974. I am making a comparison of the Arts and Social Sciences, Commerce and Business Administration, and Accountancy because Nanyang University has place for only three departments and it is not comparable to take in Medicine, Law. Engineering and Dentistry. For the University of Singapore the subsidy per student for these three departments works out to an average of $4,279 whereas for Nanyang University the subsidy was $3,506. But I must hasten to add that subsidy means a deficit, and in Nanyang University there are other incomes to be taken into consideration. If we take the actual expenditure, not the subsidy, per student for 1974 for these two Universities the total sum for the University of Singapore was $4,729 whereas for Nanyang University the actual expenditure per student was $4,637.

On the question of merging the two universities, I would like to say that the Government is not contemplating a merger of the two universities, There is no good reason to do so. On the contrary, because of their traditional academic organisational and administrative incompatibility, there is every reason to encourage them to develop their individual disciplines, each on its own, Even economically there is no benefit to be gained in the proposal. Furthermore, with similar courses being offered by the two universities, the spirit of competition will spur them on to greater heights of achievement.

On the question of Youth Associations. I would like to inform the Member that the grant to the Youth Associations in question is meant only to supplement the shortfall in annual operating costs in respect of the Singapore Scout Association and the Singapore Girl Guides Association. The activities of these two associations form an integral part of the extra-curricular activities organised for students and are distinct and separate from other youth activities run by community centres.

On the question of the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. I would like to inform the Member that in the past year the Institute of South-east Asian Studies awarded a total of seven Research fellowships for research into various areas of current interest. These are: three Institute of South-east Asian Research Fellowships, three fellowships in conjunction with the Federal Government of Australia on South-east Asian relations, and one Fulbright Hays scholarship. In addition to these, the Institute received five Visiting Fellows.

On the seminar and conference front, only one major international seminar was organised and this centred on the topic "Trends in Thailand" as a follow-up of the previous year's seminar on "Trends in Singapore". Occasional seminars held during the year numbered 20 and in addition to this, 28 in-house seminars were also organised. The research effort has resulted in a total publication of 17 new titles for the year.

The existence of the Institute has brought about closer contact among scholars and specialists concerned with modern Southeast Asia and its development. Various research projects conducted by the Institute centre upon the socio-economic and sociopolitical problems of the South-east Asian region. The nature of the problem delved into and the contact developed with scholars of the region will also promote a better understanding between the nations of the region. The Institute is presently located within the campus of the University of Singapore. To absorb it into the University proper would cause it to lose its regional and autonomous character. Further, it exists to serve the region as a whole and its interest lies further afield than the more restrictive curriculum and research conducted at either of our universities. Therefore, to absorb it as part of either of the universities would stifle the original objective in the establishment of this Institute besides curtailing the freedom under which it may operate. There is no economic advantage too in the proposal.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to thank the Minister of State for his detailed reply. Before I withdraw my amendment I would like to suggest that the term "Youth Associations" should not be used because it is misleading. He has said that the funds will be allocated to the Singapore Scout Association and the Singapore Girl Guides Association. Such allocation should not appear under `Youth Associations". I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok (Delta): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of item (d) of subhead AAA 3030

Sir, the South-east Asian Ministers of Education Organisation (SEAMEO) is to me an anachronistic organisation. It has been outdated by the new developments in Indo-China. I wonder if the new governments of Indo-China will continue to subscribe to the concept and to contribute to the various centres of SEAMEO. I do not think the programmes and activities of these centres have meaningfully helped member-countries in those fields in which these centres are purposefully engaged.

The Regional English Language Centre (RELC) has recently been renamed. The letter "E" in the abbreviation RELC does not stand for "English" any more. This letter "E' now goes with the letter "R" to stand for "Regional". Sir, what does this change imply? I am sure Members in this House would like to know what the Centre has done, with or without the word "English", in helping this country to improve the teaching and learning of English apart from sponsoring the eye-wash type of seminars from time to time.

Sir, everyone is complaining about the ever lowering standards of English in our schools from primary to tertiary levels. Has the RELC done anything to help solve the problem of poor English by designing a teaching or learning programme that is relevant to the context of this country?

Sir, I would also like to ask the Minister the following questions:

(1) Is there any change in the membership of SEAMEO?

(2) What monetary contributions have the Indo-Chinese states made hitherto to SEAMEO?

(3) What are the breakdown figures of our contribution to the Secretariat and the various centres of SEAMEO?

(4) Does RELC intend to introduce new language programmes which are really regional? Sir, I think languages such as Thai and Tagalog of the Philippines should be studied at the Regional Language Centre, if we are really interested in promoting the concept of regionalism.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, on the question of whether there is any change in the membership of SEAMEO. I would say at the moment "legally no" although the three Indo-Chinese states did not attend the meeting.

As for our contribution to the Secretariat, it varies from year to year. Based on a formula, Singapore's contribution is approximately 4%, or slightly more, of the total expenditure.

Touching on linguistic studies at RELC, the RELC is a regional institution with regional responsibilities. It has to concern itself with the varying needs of the South-east Asian member-nations in the improvement of English language teaching. These needs are expressed to RELC equally by each country through RELC's governing board. One of the means of meeting these diverse needs is through RELC's training courses for key personnel from the region. The courses are specially designed for teacher-educators rather than teachers, designers of research rather than researchers, supervisors, inspectors and curriculum specialists and other key personnel. It is, therefore, necessary to design the curriculum content of these courses to meet the needs of training personnel at this high level.

The Centre nevertheless does offer short-term courses designed specially to assist teachers in improving their methodology in the teaching of English in schools. The Ministry of Education is aware of the need to review continuously the need of upgrading Singapore's English language teaching programme that can best be served by the RELC. These are being channelled to the Centre through the governing board. Our suggestions for change to meet the needs of Singapore, however, would have to be considered by the governing board in the light of the overall programme of priorities of the Centre. The Centre is, in fact, in the process of planning to upgrade the courses for senior English language teachers in secondary schools. These courses are specifically designed to meet the needs of Singapore.

7.30 p.m.

On the change of the name of the Regional English Language Centre (RELC) to the Regional Language Centre (still RELC), I would like to inform Members that the first 5-year phase of operation of the RELC is scheduled to end in December 1976. During this phase of operation, the primary objective of the Centre was to improve the teaching of English as a second on foreign language in member countries of SEAMEO. The Centre will soon move into its second 5-year phase of operation. At the same time, its name will also be changed to the Regional Language Centre. Its emphasis will correspondingly shift to the undertaking of research and publication of the problems and needs of the region. While it will not be engaged specifically in training in the use of the different languages, it will delve into contrastic studies, cross cultural studies. social linguistic studies and other such related studies, all of which cut across language barriers. It will continue to assist member-countries in improving the teaching of the English language.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, do the three states of Indo-China still send trainees to the RELC for training?

Mr Chai Chong Yii: No.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr J. F. Conceicao --

(12) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 4001.

Mr Conceicao: I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 8302.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, under this subhead, the sum allocated for Nanyang University Students' Hostel was $500,000 for FY 75 and $1.5 million for FY 76. And there is a revote of $237,800. For Nanyang Staff Quarters, the sum allotted was $100,000 for FY 75 and it is also $100,000 for FY 76; and a revote is also sought. Sir, I would like to ask why is there a need to revote on these two items.

The second question I would like to ask is when will the Sports Complex for Nanyang University be completed. On completion, will the facilities be available also for use by, say, the villagers living in the vicinity of Nanyang University?

My third question is in regard to the new canteen for the Library. I understand that at the moment there is a canteen on the top floor of the Library building. Why is there a need to allocate $80,000 for another new canteen? I would like the Minister to enlighten this House on the need for this provision.

My last question is in regard to the provision of $120,000 for the Department of Student Affairs Building. At the moment the Department of Student Affairs has its own office. If it is necessary to shift the office. I feel that a better place for it will be in the students' building, that is, the Union House, because the Department has very close relationship with the students. I would like the Minister to enlighten this House on the need for an allocation for the Department of Students' Affairs Building.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: Sir, the need to revote the provision for the Students' Hostel is due mainly to a change in the decision to resite the hostel from the site near the Sports Complex to the present site near the Auditorium next to an existing block of hostels. The delay has also been due to construction activities, such as boundary surveys, soil testing, earthworks, layout, drawing up of detailed architectural plans, and plan clearance by the relevant authorities. In the case of Staff Quarters, the delay was, in part, due to difficulties in finalising the policy of allocation and the actual number of units to be built. Formal clearance of the Development Planning Committee is also awaited before expenditure could be incurred.

As for the Sports Complex, it is expected to be completed in mid-June or early July this year. When not in use by the students, I understand that the University is prepared to make its facilities, or pant of them, available to organised groups only.

On the question of building a new canteen, I would like to inform the House that the present location of the canteen on the top floor of the Library has been found to be unsatisfactory. Those using the Library are disturbed by the students and staff members going to and from the canteen, as they have to pass through the Library. The present canteen, therefore, has to give way to expansion of the Library to cope with the increase in student enrolment and an increase in the collection of books. The new canteen will be constructed outside the Library building to replace the existing one.

On the question of whether there is a need to put up a building for the Department of Student Affairs, the Member for Delta happens to be the Director of the Department of Student Affairs, and he may be able to substantiate or to add to my reply if it is not satisfactory. Although it would seem practical and convenient for the Department of Student Affairs to be housed in the Students' Union House, this is not feasible as it is fully occupied by the various student societies of Nanyang University. The existing premises of the Students' Union House is not adequate even to meet the requirements of the students. The various sections of the Department of Student Affairs are presently operating at different parts on the Campus due to a shortage of space. Besides, with the increase in the student intake and the corresponding increase in students' activities, the present general office of the Department of Student Affairs will be inadequate to cope with the day-to-day administration of the Department. This situation affects the efficiency and smooth functioning of the Department of Student Affairs. Hence, there is a need for a new building.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to ask the Minister whether he would ensure that construction of the Students' Hostel and Staff Quarters would not be again delayed. I hope we will not find it necessary next year to again ask for an allocation of funds for these buildings.

On the question of building a new canteen for the Library, I feel that the provision of $80,000 is not enough. It will require about$200,000 to $300,000 to construct even an ordinary building. I wonder what kind of canteen can be built with this small sum of $80,000.

As regards the office for the Department of Student Affairs, the Minister of State said that the canteen on the top floor of the Library will be shifted out and the space used for the Library. As far as I know, the Library has enough seats for the use of the students. When the said space is vacated, it could well be `used to accommodate the Department of Student Affairs. In this way, we can save the $120,000 meant for the Department of Student Affairs Building and add it to the provision for the building of the new canteen so that a better one can be built. I wonder whether the Minister would agree to this suggestion.

Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon: (In Mandarin): Sir, I understand the Nanyang University authorities have consulted some specialists on a comprehensive plan for development. I wonder whether the proposal to build the Students' Hostel, Staff Quarters and other buildings has been envisaged in the comprehensive plan for the development of Nanyang University.

Mr Chai Chong Yii: May I first answer the Member for Tiong Bahru, Sir, It is most likely that the proposals would not deviate fan from the development plan. But I myself am not sure about this because the detailed operation of Nanyang University is under the control of the Council and not under the Ministry of Education as such. The Ministry of Education merely looks after its finance.

The Member for Jurong wants an assurance regarding the building of the Students' Hostel and the Staff Quarters. I have just looked at the Budget estimates and I find there is no asterisk to these two items. I presume the plans have already been approved and it is now a matter of administrative expediency. I will convey the wishes of the Member to the Nanyang University authorities to see that they are built as soon as possible.

On the question of the "New Canteen for Library", I see an asterisk against the provision in the Budget estimates. There is also an asterisk against the provision for the "Department of Student Affairs Building". This means that they are subject to sanction by the Development Planning Committee. The final approval still remains with the DPC. They have only been approved in principle. Regarding the canteen, I have said that the top floor of the building would be used as additional space for the Library. But I would like to inform Members that, as far as I know, the Department of Student Affairs is quite large. One floor in the Library building is not big enough to accommodate that office. In fact, it is quite far from the Students' Union House and, therefore, it would not be practical.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the Senior Minister of State's assurance that he would convey our wishes to the Nanyang University authorities and hoping that the Students' Hostel and the Staff Quarters will be built soon. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $391,843,670 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $74,005,000 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.