MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF SINGAPORE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1982 TO 31ST MARCH, 1983

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [7th Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

2.52 p.m.

Head O (cont.) -

Resumption of Debate on Question [24th March, 1982].

"That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead OB-01 Object Group 1210 of the Main Estimates." - [Mr Yeo Choo Kok].

Question again proposed.

The Chairman: The guillotine time for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was at 2.45 p.m. Therefore, the Foreign Affairs Ministry has had it! Mr Yeo, would you like to withdraw your amendment?

Mr Yeo Choo Kok (Delta): Sir, in view of the guillotine time, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The time allotted for Head O having expired, the following amendment was not proceeded with:

Mr S. Chandra Das:

Mr Ng Kah Ting:

(2) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0 be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead OB-01 of the Development Estimates.

The sum of $49,678,760 for Head 0 ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $12,000,000 for Head 0 ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head J -

Dr Ow Chin Hock (Leng Kee): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JA-01 of the Main Estimates.*

In moving this amendment, I would first like to ask the Minister about the progress of certain projects and activities under the Ministry, just like asking an old friend how he has been getting On in the past 15 months. First, a few specific questions:

(i) What is the present status of the proposed Singapore History Gallery in the National Museum?

(ii) What is the total amount of the Cultural Foundation at the latest convenient date; what is the amount of donations received last year; how much has been spent, and on what projects?

(iii) Whether the Minister is satisfied with the progress made in the promotion of cultural activities by his cultural section in the year 1981?

Next, on a more general point. Knowing the Minister is very receptive to ideas, may I take the opportunity to suggest that the Ministry of Culture come up with an over-all cultural development plan for the next 5-10 years. The plan should include several aspects:-

(a) Cultural Infrastructure

I am aware that there are several buildings for the Arts, such as National Theatre, Victoria Memorial Hall, Singapore Conference Hall and the Kallang Theatre. However, in my view, we still need to proceed with the proposed Cultural Complex in the Marina Centre. The Complex would provide the focal point of all our cultural activities.

(b) More importantly, the cultural development plan should include various schemes to increase the so-called "demand" for cultural activities, such as inculcating an appreciation of the fine arts and reading habit among our people, particularly among our youngsters. From my experience, I notice that the people who go round visiting visual art exhibitions or attending concerts are generally from the same group. Efforts should be made to cultivate an interest in the arts among a wider spectrum of the population.

(c) There should be a long-term plan in the training of our local artists. We should provide opportunities and avenues in selected areas of the arts for our local artists to become professionals.

I believe the Minister is aware of the Report by Neil S. Duncan, who was in Singapore from March to May 1980 to undertake a study under the sponsorship of UNESCO. The Report made many recommendations, some good, some bad, some irrelevant. Many of these recommendations and the views contained in the Report are not original. In fact, they are the views and suggestions of the officials of the Ministry of Culture, National Theatre, People's Association and many local artists who were interviewed by Mr Duncan. However, in spite of this, the Report can still form the basis for a discussion with a view to developing it into a more comprehensive and cohesive cultural development plan. As a matter of fact, I had begun work on this but I was transferred out. Another aspect which the Ministry should look into is the cross-fertilization of cultures of the various ethnic groups. It is an extremely difficult task but nevertheless important. To begin with, the Ministry may want to look into the proposal of a systematic introduction and explanation of the customs and traditions of the various ethnic groups, through TV, radio and publications.

The third point I would like to raise concerns the Information Officers Scheme. It was implemented in June 1980 and there were 64 posts provided, including some 15 Public Relations Officers who will be posted out to other Ministries. May I know from the Minister the progress of this scheme? Has the Ministry overcome the recruitment problem by now? In my view, a successful Information Officer must not only be good in public relations but he must also be well-informed of the policies of the Ministry or department he is attached to.

In this context, may I bring up the issue of the relationship between the press and the Government? Since the newspapers and the mass media have a crucial role to play in informing and explaining Government policies and policy changes to the people, at the same time reflecting the views and reactions from the people, there should be closer co-operation between the mass media and the Government. To achieve this, the journalists themselves must, in the first place, be well-informed of the policies, policy changes and their background and rationale. Of course, sensitive areas such as national security and tax changes should not be touched on. On the other hand, journalists must be worthy of the trust and confidence the Ministry is placing on them. Newspapers must use their discretion and judgment on what to print and what not to print. I need not have to remind our local journalists that they are first and foremost Singaporeans, and secondly journalists.

Sir, our more established newspapers are generally responsible as they are able to place our national interest first. However, I am concerned about some of our younger journalists. Because of their educational background, they may be inspired by the Western newspapers and may want to imitate their Western counterparts. I hope these younger journalists are conscious that the political, economic, cultural background and social attitudes of our country are radically different from those in the West, and should not attempt to play the same game in the wrong court. 3.00 p.m.

Finally, Sir, the Minister for Communications and Labour suggested on 1st January, 1982, that newspapers and the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation should pool their resources together to provide training for journalists to upgrade performance and quality. I feel there is a need for a training school for journalists and information officers. The Ministry should assist the newspapers and SBC in this regard, perhaps even tapping the financial resources of the Skills Development Fund. Alternatively, the SBC training school may be expanded and extended to include our journalists and information officers.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon (Alexandra): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to be able to stand up once again in this House to say a few words of praise for the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation. Indeed, Sir, those who had reservations about whether out Radio and TV service would do well after its incorporation as a statutory board will no doubt agree that it has certainly done well. The improvements that have been made are all too evident and even more so in the last one year. The revamping of our Radio service is just one such example. All in all, progress has been made in making SBC a more interesting and lively station.

Sir, I was interested to read not long ago that SBC is now building up a pool of local talent. Apparently it is the aim of SBC to be able to produce our own TV serials comparable to what we have been getting from Hong Kong. We also read of plans to produce a series based on life in our army, something along the lines of the popular American series, M.A.S.H. Sir, in line with this aim, SBC recently started recruiting Singaporeans to train them to become film stars. I would like to know how successful this hunt for acting talent has been; what progress has been made in the training of our local talent, and how soon can we begin to see our own home-grown stars on our TV screens.

Mr Speaker, my next question concerns the report on censorship rules which, we have read in the press recently, has already been submitted to the Hon. Minister by the Film and Publication Review Board. As hon. Members are aware, this Board was set up last year to draw up a new set of censorship guidelines for various media, like films, video tapes, books and magazines.

Sir, censorship has been a hot topic in this House for many years. I shall not go into details as these have been reviewed all too often, except to say that many times it has been pointed out that our censorship rules are out of touch with reality in some aspects. Again, Sir, before the Hon. Minister jumps to the wrong conclusion about my likes and dislikes, as he did last year, let me point out that while many of us here are in favour of some liberalization of the present rigid rules, I am sure he will agree with me when I say that this has to be done within a proper framework of an acceptable level of morality, and that whatever changes we make will not result in the erosion of our traditional Asian values.

My question is when can this report be made public, whether the Hon. Minister is prepared to give us some preliminary details today? Not only are we keen to know what will be revealed in the report but we will also be interested to know what can be made more revealing for Singaporeans.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Culture (Mr S. Dhanabalan): Mr Speaker, Sir, may I take the points raised by the Member for Leng Kee first. He asked about the progress of the History of Singapore Gallery. This Gallery will comprise two parts. One will be a gallery that will present, through three dimensional displays of historical artifacts and materials, Singapore's early history and try to bring alive and make vivid for Singaporeans the scenes and people of early Singapore. The second part will be an audio visual presentation of the history of Singapore.

The object of the History of Singapore Gallery is to provide Singaporeans, especially the young Singaporeans, with a sense of history and also to inspire Singaporeans with a recreation and recounting of the stories and accounts of the early pioneers of Singapore and the achievements of our founding fathers.

The establishment of the Gallery requires the following work to be carried out. Firstly, renovation of the physical facilities for the permanent display of exhibits. Together with the planning of physical space, of course, research has got to be done to collect and document exhibits, artifacts, paintings, photographs, maps and so on. This is now in hand.

Secondly, the audio visual presentation. For the audio visual presentation, the Ministry is now negotiating with a consultancy firm to undertake the project. This audio visual presentation will be a 20minute presentation which will augment the exhibits in the Gallery. It will depict three episodes; the first episode being the landing of Raffles and the early inhabitants of Singapore. The second episode will depict the life of the early and later immigrants up to World War 11, the Japanese Occupation Period and the Surrender. The third episode will depict the Post-war years leading to Singapore's self-government, independence through Malaysia, and present-day Singapore.

The planning for the Gallery has already commenced. Detailed plans and drawings and cost estimates are being prepared by the Public Works Department. Renovation work will begin as soon as these are finalized and estimates approved.

The second point that the Member raised was on the Cultural Foundation. He asked for the amounts collected in 1981. As at the end of 1980 the Cultural Foundation had a total of $2.7 million in its capital account, in the form of donations received. During the year 1981 the Foundation received a further $850,000 from donations as well as fund-raising projects. Therefore, the total capital amounts to $3.5 million. Of course, this capital has been earning interest. So the total in the Fund now is $4.3 million.

In 1981 the Foundation approved 19 grants/schemes for cultural organizations and talented individuals, and these schemes will cost about $1 million. A total of $166,000 has been spent and outstanding commitments on these schemes amount to $872,000 which will be spent over the next two to three years.

The Member may be interested in some further breakdown in the projects funded by the Cultural Foundation. Broadly, a total of 35 projects have been funded so far. Local cultural events 9 Seminars/workshops 10 Study grants 6 Cultural exchange 1 Literary and other competitions 5 Folk songs, quiz, employment of choreographers and so on 4

The Member also asked about the number of cultural activities organized in the year 1981. The Cultural Division was involved in promoting 259 projects in the fiscal year 1981-82. Off-hand I do not have the number of activities that were organized purely by private cultural organizations but my estimate is that about 80% of the figure that I mentioned were organized by private cultural organizations with the support of the Cultural Division.

The Member raised the problem of Information Officers and what progress has been made in the recruitment and employment of such officers. As the Member mentioned, the scheme was established in June 1980 and 34 new posts were established under this scheme. This includes the 15 Public Relations Officers in the various Ministries. In all 13 new officers have been recruited, some of them to fill vacancies existing before the establishment of the Information Officer scheme. We still have 31 vacant posts. It is not an easy task to recruit suitable people in the required numbers because of the limited pool of Singaporeans with the qualities required of Information Officers and because of the competing demands from other services, such as other Government departments and statutory bodies as well as the media.

No Information Officer has yet been posted as a Public Relations Officer to any department. Those who have been recruited are still undergoing training, but as a whole the Ministry has not been able to recruit enough staff of sufficient experience to do the job straightaway. For the time being, in order to ensure that the public is kept well informed of the work and policies of the Government, each Ministry has been asked to appoint a senior Division I officer to cover the functions of public relations, with this officer working directly under the Permanent Secretary. The problem in the past, Mr Speaker, Sir, has been that those dealing with public relations have not been senior enough to be brought into the confidence of the Permanent Secretary on policy matters and we have tried to rectify this by asking the Ministries to appoint officers who are senior enough to be involved in policy-making and to be aware of the thinking behind policies. These officers will be provided with some training by the Information Division and the Information Division of the Ministry will regularly liaise with them and assist them in their work. It is hoped that this arrangement, which will be a temporary arrangement until such time as we can get sufficiently qualified and well-trained Information Officers, will improve the flow of information to the public until Information Officers from the Ministry of Culture can take over.

The Member for Leng Kee also made some very pertinent points about the role of the press. I can only echo the sentiments expressed by him and reiterate once again the importance of the press and Government working closely together with the press for the common aim of the betterment of Singapore and Singaporeans. He made some suggestions about the training school for journalists. We will take his suggestion into account and see what can be implemented.

The Member for Alexandra made some very welcome remarks about SBC. Usually SBC is at the receiving end of very severe criticisms and I am sure the staff of SBC appreciate his very kind remarks. 3.15 p.m.

He asked about local talent. What SBC is doing to encourage and train local talent. SBC has tried to recruit more local artistes to meet TV and Radio production requirements. Full-time artistes are put on contracts ranging from six months to five years. SBC also engages part-time artistes on a per programme or per series basis. SBC has on its staff now 49 artistes, 70% of whom are local artistes. The number of musicians in the SBC Orchestra has been increased from nine to 29 musicians. Singaporeans make up 83% of the SBC Orchestra. SBC also maintains a register of part-time artistes whose services are called upon when required.

When SBC started its recruitment drive for artistes, it received very good response. The first recruitment exercise for drama artistes attracted 3,500 applicants but, unfortunately, as with such recruitment drives, many who wanted to become stars did not have the qualities. After screening and auditioning, only 10 were selected as candidates who could be offered contracts ranging from two to five years. But the more promising of the remaining applicants were considered for part-time employment. I think this is the only approach that we can adopt if we want to maintain standards. Only those artistes with the potential for training can be selected.

To better tap talent and coordinate matters concerning engagement and casting of part-time artistes, a Casting and Artiste Liaison Unit was formed. Recruitment of talent has been successful in so far as it has helped to enrich and facilitate SBC's local productions as well as, of course, in providing an outlet for local talent. With professional artistes available full-time for training, production standards have been enhanced, especially in Mandarin-dubbed programmes. Being the largest user of performing artistes in Singapore, SBC has become the focus for established talents as well as aspirants to stardom.

Since incorporation, SBC has received and processed about 8,000 local applicants for performing on Radio and TV. In addition to the full-time artistes that I mentioned, SBC has also been able to enlarge the register of part-time artistes by 10% in the past two years. Local talent development for Radio and Television is a slow and difficult process, especially as SBC has to rely almost wholly on its own efforts in this endeavour. Given the realities here, even with all that SBC has been able to do in local talent development, there is need to moderate expectations. SBC will continue to stress on realising qualitative standards and local talent resources.

The instant star is an extremely rare breed and I am not very optimistic that we will strike such instant stars in SBC. And even the instant stars that we know are people who have gone through a long and arduous process of mining, refining and polishing before they become stars.

The Member also asked about the progress of the Censorship Review Committee. That is the title of the Committee. The Committee has made its report which has been accepted by the Government. I think most, if not all, of the recommendations of the Committee have been accepted and the report of the Committee will be published very soon, I hope within the next six weeks. I hate to reveal some of the recommendations of the Committee because the recommendations must be seen in the total context and to just mention one or two might mislead Members of this House and the public into expecting things which will not be realised. I am not certain whether the Member will be pleased when the findings and recommendations of the Committee are published but I can assure him that the last point that he made that any changes that the Committee recommends or the Government intends to implement should not go against the established values and morals of Singapore, has been foremost in the mind of the Committee. I would ask the Member and the other Members of the House to bear with me until we can publish the full report of the Committee.

I think I have answered all the points, Sir, but if I have not, maybe the Members would want to remind me.

Dr Ow Chin Hock: Sir, I think the Minister has missed one important point, i.e. cultural development plan.

Mr Dhanabalan: I am sorry, Sir. I missed that point. If the Member means, by this point, whether we have a plan to arrive at a distinct Singapore culture within a definite time-frame, I must say we do not have such a time-frame. Evolution of a Singapore culture will have to be allowed to take its own time. But we do have plans of what we would like to do for the next five years.

The Member himself, as he mentioned, when he was in the Ministry was involved in the formulation of certain cultural promotion programmes and some of these are on-going projects, such as the Drama Festival, National Music Competition, Festival of Choirs and so on. I do not want to list all of them because I think there are many other things we want to discuss. But the Ministry is now in the process of drawing up its next five-year plan.

Apart from evaluating the present projects, the Ministry will be looking into new areas for development. We are studying the feasibility of setting up professional companies and identifying areas for cultural expertise to nurture. We are studying the additional facilities that will be required to build up more artistes and we are also looking into a more efficient structure for cultural administration. The Ministry is also studying steps to build up local artistes through such steps as publishing their works overseas in publications, records, tapes and so on. All these plans are still preliminary and I am afraid I cannot go into much detail at this stage. The plan should be ready in about six months, and if the money is available we can start implementing the plan later this year or early next year.

Dr Ow Chin Hock: In view of the satisfactory reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JB-04 Object Group 1210 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, in the past, the Ministry of Culture regularly published posters which were widely distributed and displayed at prominent places throughout the country for people to see and read. These posters were full of pictures with simple captions or explanatory notes. They did a good job in informing our people of meaningful and significant events that have taken place in the country. No good reason was given for ceasing to publish these posters. Most of the constituencies have now formed Residents' Committees and these Committees have maintained notice boards at strategic points within the constituencies. I hope the Ministry can resume publishing these posters and display them in these notice boards so that residents can easily read them.

I would also like to request the Ministry to look into the feasibility of publishing a colourful pictorial regularly for the reading pleasure of both locals and foreigners. These colourful pictorials can be in the form of a monthly or bi-monthly magazine. Most of the countries have this type of magazine, It serves to depict the way of living and the culture of the people and the various developments and achievements of a country. I think our country can afford to have this type of publication.

Mr Dhanabalan: Sir, I think the posters which the Member referred to is the Photo News, full of pictures. It was started in 1959 and it used to cover events like official opening of schools, factories, community centres and so on by Ministers and MPs. It also used to cover visits of foreign dignitaries, visits of the Prime Minister overseas, and so on. This used to be displayed in community centres and other institutions but it was discontinued in 1968 because of the widespread ownership of TV by then. People could see these events on their TV and the posters were really outdated. Since then, of course, we have only just presented photographs taken by the Ministry of Culture in two places, i.e. in Supreme Court and City Hall. But we do take the point that the Member has made that there is a need for something similar to the Photo News that we used to have from 1959 to 1968.

The Ministry is now looking into the feasibility of producing a Photo Display by theme, and pictorial broadsheets. These broadsheets which will have photographs pertaining to the themes of the particular broadsheet will be sent to schools, community centres and institutions of higher learning for display. Those Residents' Committees who want the broadsheets can also request for the broadsheets when they are produced. Our initial inquiry shows that most RCs claim that they do not have notice boards that are large enough to take these broadsheets and their present notice boards are already taken up with many little notices and notices of the activities of the RC. But, as I have said, if any RC wants to have such broadsheets it is welcome.

In addition to this, it is also intended to identify 20 more sites where photographs can be displayed. Photographs have to be changed periodically showing visitors to Singapore or other important events in Singapore. Display boxes will be put in 20 strategic sites and the photographs will be displayed in these display boxes.

The Member also asked about the production of a pictorial. We do have at present two publications, the Singapore Mirror and the Bulletin and the Ministry is now looking into the possibility of either combining the two or starting a separate publication of the kind that the Member has mentioned. The trouble about starting this venture is that to do a good job you need good people. It is not just a question of having the money. It is a question of having people who are trained, who are able to present articles and views in a manner that will attract and keep the attention of the reader. This subject is in hand and I hope that I will be in a position to report, maybe at the next budget, that it has started.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, in view of the promising reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment, standing in the name of Mr Yeo Choo Kok, was not moved:

(3) That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JC-01 Object Group 2610 of the Main Estimates.

Mr J.B. Jeyaretnam (Anson): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead JC-04 of the Main Estimates.

Subhead JC-04, Sir, as Members are probably aware, is a vote for the Regulatory Services of the Ministry of Culture. If one looks at the programme description, it is for "the control of films, public entertainments and publications by the Board of Film Censors, Public Entertainments Licensing Unit and the Publications Section." It is the control of the media that I shall be confining myself to in this amendment.

Sir, we have heard in this House, not just during the last week or so but even before that this Government believes in free enterprise and competition and how good it is for the economy of the country and that the Government is firmly anchored to free enterprise and competition when it comes to economic activities. But there is one area where it would appear that the Government does not believe in free enterprise and competition. This is the exchange of ideas, ideas which are so vital to the health and well-being of a community. 3.30 p.m.

We have seen ever since this Government came to power the draconian control of the press and all forms of media. We have seen the disappearance of papers, newspapers, notably the Singapore Herald. We have seen how papers which made themselves amenable to this control were allowed to carry on; papers which tried to challenge this in any way were soon put out of business. So the matter continued, with Singaporeans being regaled every morning with news in their newspapers about the various activities of the Government, to be repeated over TV and radio.

I ask, Sir, why is this Government so frightened of allowing the free interplay of ideas and exchange of ideas? Why are they frightened that people should not be allowed to listen to other views, views put forward by people other than those who are in the Government or in the ruling party?

As I said, the newspapers that were prepared to accept this control were allowed to continue with their publications, so long as they agreed to accept the strict control from City Hall, from the Ministry of Culture. At one time this control was exercised from City Hall. There was still a bit of a distance between City Hall (I am talking about the English papers) and Kim Seng Road where Times House is. But after the 31st of October last year, after an event that happened in Singapore - I need not tell this House what took place on the 31st of October last year - it appeared to those in authority that the control from City Hall was not good enough. It seemed to appear to those who had the direction or control of the media that perhaps the papers were getting a little out of line. They were perhaps being carried away by this event that had taken place on the 31st of October.

So we saw the censor moving into Times House. No longer was the distance between City Hall and Times House allowed to intervene between strict control over the papers.

Mr Ho See Beng (Khe Bong): The Managing Director of Straits Times.

Mr Jeyaretnam: So we had the appointment of an Executive Director of the Straits Times, a man who had served the Government well as Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - I think his last appointment, I stand corrected. I do not know whether he has any experience of editing newspapers. But we all do know that he was at one time in the intelligence service of the government. What is perhaps not widely known in Singapore is that he also worked for the Japanese Police during the Occupation days.

So we have seen after that a total clamp down on any news or views that may be considered in any way a criticism of the Government policy or programme. I ask, Sir, why is this Government, so passionately believing in free enterprise and competition in other fields, so frightened when it comes to exchange of ideas? Are they really so frightened of the other political parties that they must not be given any space in the media?

Sir, a political party applied to hold a public rally on the 9th January this year. Under our present laws, before a political party can hold a public meeting it has got to get the permission of the Ministry of Culture. An application was accordingly submitted, and whoever was in charge of issuing this permit rang me up and said, "What are you going to talk about?" Sir, I told him that I was going to talk about the sun, moon and stars. The poor man took me very seriously.

The Minister of State of Defence (Dr Yeo Ning Hong): You mean you told a lie!

Mr Jeyaretnam: You ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer; I mean, to ask what a political party is going to talk about when it applies for a permit for a public meeting. So we were told that no rallies can be held outside elections.

Sir, I have been subject to a number of challenges here. Last week, or was it this week, the Minister without Portfolio asked whether we would challenge him at the forthcoming election for the Secretary-General's post of the NTUC. He did not tell us what the rules were under which this election would be held. Well, if he would let me see the rules, then I will tell him whether we will challenge him, whether the rules are so arranged that it would be very difficult for us to do anything about it.

An hon. Member: Very free.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Now, what I would like to ask the Minister without Portfolio is, since he has issued me a challenge to the party, whether he would step down in his constituency at Bukit Merah and let the public decide who should be elected at Bukit Merah.

Finally, Sir, may I ask the Minister to say in this House now whether his Ministry -

The First Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Education (Dr Goh Keng Swee): Mr Speaker, Sir, his time is up. The hon. Member should stop talking and sit down. Will he obey the Standing Orders?

The Chairman: So be it.

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, I was wondering, as the Member rambled on, what he was actually getting at, because suddenly he seems to have become the champion of the press. But fortunately, he got to the real point of his complaint towards the end of his statement, which is that his party was not allowed to hold a rally.

Sir, I want to make it very clear what the policy of my Ministry is on this matter. It has been the policy since 1976 that no permit will be issued for public rallies or meetings of political parties except during elections or to celebrate special occasions, such as National Day or to inaugurate a party. A political party can, of course, hold a meeting of its own members in any place it chooses to hold as long as the meeting is confined to its members. This rule applies to all parties, including the PAP.

Sir, in his comments on newspapers, the Member has clearly revealed that he has picked up ideas and ideals of a by-gone era, maybe in the country where he was educated, and is trying to transfer and apply them wholesale to the situation in Singapore. Sir, I make no apologies that we in Singapore do not follow the rules that he thinks we should follow. We make our own rules as to how political parties or the press should conduct themselves and how public issues should be discussed. As I said, Sir, I make no apologies for not following the practice in countries like the United States, UK or other Western countries.

We know from bitter experience in Singapore as well as from what is happening elsewhere in the world today, how easily political parties and discontented groups can twist issues and hold meetings which degenerate into riots and mob rampage. We must be aware of the sensitive issues peculiar to Singapore which can be easily used by irresponsible elements craving for publicity to incite crowds into violence or other such behaviour.

It is clear from the performance to-date of the Member for Anson that he is prone to present half-truths and untruths and to magnify imagined injustices.

One of the main factors, and I like to emphasize this to the Member, the main, if not the decisive factor, for our successful development is the internal stability and peace that we have enjoyed. My Ministry has no intention of allowing any room for anyone to attempt to disturb the internal peace and stability of our nation or to undermine our security. Confidence in the Government's ability to maintain internal peace and stability is crucial to our continued progress.

Every Singaporean is only too well aware of the chaos and confusion in countries where political parties and pressure groups with vested interests are free to organize meetings and provoke incidents to arouse public protest against specific government policies and actions, before such policies can be implemented or before such actions can be demonstrated to be beneficial to the people. Singaporeans can see such examples often on their TV sets and read in the newspapers. In this respect not only political parties but newspapers and the media can also be pointed as being responsible for such situations in these countries. The spectacle of governments being driven from pillar to post putting out bush fires ignited and fanned by single interest pressure groups may be their idea of democracy and may be the Member's idea of democracy in action. But, Sir, that is not my idea, nor the idea of this Government, and we will never allow such a situation to be created in Singapore.

We have been elected to govern the nation on the basis of a programme that has been presented to the people. We are still waiting for the Member's programme. Some parts of the programme may involve immediate hardship and time is required to demonstrate that the people of Singapore will benefit from such programmes and policies. At each general election the people will be able to examine as a totality the Government's performance and achievements and they can deliver their verdict through the secret ballot. 3.45 p.m.

I think the Member for Anson should be the first to bear witness that the ballot in Singapore is secret and fair. The people of Singapore have decided through many past elections that what they are interested in is the substance of good government and not merely in the form which is what the Member for Anson seems to be so obsessed with.

The Member for Anson can make known his views. He is free to make known his views and that of his party in Parliament here. He can give press conferences, tell fables to foreign correspondents or hold meetings of his party members. Incidentally, Sir, lately there have been a spate of articles where foreign correspondents have been quoting "local experts", and from the remarks that the Member has made, I think I have an idea of who some of these "local experts" are.

As far as I am concerned, I have no intention of allowing a situation either of political parties holding public rallies or newspapers to use the position that they have, to undermine the security and stability of Singapore. If you have constructive suggestions, constructive criticisms, there are avenues for you to make them known. The Member would be well advised to come out with a positive programme. So far all we have heard from him in this House is just carps on Government policies, He has not been able to produce a single idea, Mr Speaker, Sir, of how Singapore can be made a better place. He has had many ideas as to how we can spend our money, how we can fritter away what we have saved so far, but he has not produced one single idea, to my knowledge, of how we can earn more.

The Minister (Mr Lim Chee Onn): Sir, may I have your indulgence to speak since my name was mentioned?

Two points raised by the Member for Anson require answering. First, he asked whether the NTUC would send him a set of the regulations governing the elections. I would say this to him. Some days ago he offered to show the Member for Khe Bong a list. He subsequently retracted and invited the Member for Khe Bong to go to his office. Today, he wants regulations governing the NTUC elections sent to him. I would have thought that a very easy and pleasant way of finding out what it is all about is to go to the National Library, get a copy of the NTUC Constitution and he can have the full facts there if he does not want to spend the bus fare or bother to walk to the NTUC. We would, in fact, be very glad to give him a copy of the Constitution, and I can assure him that we do not even charge a dollar, which the Workers Party does for the Workers Party manifesto.

The second point I want to make is his challenge to me to step down in Bukit Merah. I recall that, maybe some four or five months ago, the Second Deputy Prime Minister raised a question in the local press, I think, asking the Member for Anson whether he would be staying in Anson for long and, if so, for how long. I suspect, to-date, no answer has been given. I think I am correct here - the answer has been given today. He would not be staying in Anson long. I think he is going to Bukit Merah the next round. I would welcome him there.

Some hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I am afraid that the Hon. Minister has not really answered my criticism as to why this Government is so frightened. We have consistently said that we are for constitutional change and for change in the elected government through the ballot box. We have never, never advocated any form of violence. And then the Minister says here about people wanting to start fires, violence and riots. It is a sweeping indictment without trying to understand what others are trying to do. I think it is not worthy of the Minister to resort to this sort of sweeping indictments.

As regards the Minister without Portfolio's statement, Sir, I did not ask him to send it to me. I merely said he challenged us to put somebody to contest his election to the post of Secretary-General of the NTUC. I said perhaps he should have told me what the rules were. He has not, Even now he says I can go and look at it. But my challenge still remains to him. I say let the people decide, and at Bukit Merah they will decide.

An hon. Member: Are you standing in Anson especially?

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, this Government is not afraid of challenges. But challenges must be of substance. The Member said that I was creating a spectacle of riots and violence which were not founded on facts. The Member is the leader of the Workers Party but I do not think he has much idea of the personality, character, aims and motives of many of his members who have been presented as leaders, candidates and activists of his party.

Take the specific case of the Workers Party rally. He applied to hold a rally on 9th January 1982. Members and Singaporeans are aware that five members of the Singapore People's Liberation Organization arrested on the 9th and 10th January 1982 were Workers Party members. 10 people were arrested and five were members of the Workers Part%, ,. The members of the SPLO chose the meeting in connection with Prophet Muhammad's Birthday celebration in the National Stadium on 9th January, the same date as the date on which the Workers Party wanted to hold its rally, for the distribution of inflammatory pamphlets. Fortunately, they were apprehended before they could cause mischief. If the Workers Party rally had been held on the same day, it is obvious that five of the 10 who were members of the Workers Party would have seen the Workers Party rally as a target for them to cause mischief. Sir, we have no confidence in the assurance of the Member for Anson that he knows what is going on in his party or that he can control his members.

The Chairman: Mr Jeyaretnam, are you withdrawing your amendment?

Mr Jeyaretnam: No, Sir.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived.

The Chairman: The guillotine time for the Ministry of Culture is 4.05 p.m. Amendment (5), Mr Yeo.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JC-06 Object Group 1310 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the Kallang Theatre was bought by the Ministry sometime last year. Several months have passed since then and we have heard nothing about this theatre. I understand that the theatre needs to be renovated before it can be used. I just want to know when the renovation can be completed and what events or activities have been planned to be held in the theatre.

Sir, the provision requested here is meant only for recruiting temporary and daily-rated staff. How can staff of this category maintain and run such a big building? Why can we not have permanent staff to look after the theatre?

Sir, I also want to find out from the Hon. Minister whether outside private organiza- tions can make use of the theatre for cultural and entertainment purposes.

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Kallang Theatre Complex was purchased by the Government in November 1981 for $12.5 million for conversion into a concert hall cum theatre. Tenders will be called as soon as the architects and engineers have completed the plans for the conversion. In the meantime, the building is looked after by temporary watchmen. Therefore, the provision in the estimates is only for temporary staff. Once the building is operational, permanent staff will be employed. When converted, the theatre will be fully equipped for full-scale dance and musical performances including operas, concerts and theatrical shows, It will also have facilities for SBC to do live TV transmissions or recordings of popular music or variety-type presentations. If necessary, it can also be used as a venue for ceremonial functions requiring a large auditorium. It will have a seating capacity of close to 2,000. The theatre, of course, will be available for private organizations to hire in the same way as the other facilities at present maintained and run by the Ministry of Culture.

The conversion is expected to take 1 1/2 to two years from the date of commencement of renovation work.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Dr Ow Chin Hock: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JD-01 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, in view of the time, I just want to raise one question. I understand that recently a number of foreign artistes' contracts with the SBC have been terminated or not renewed. May I ask the Minister what are the reasons for this? I observe that first, it is wasteful for the SBC to recruit foreign artistes and then send them off before their contracts expire and secondly, it is damaging to the image of the SBC.

I want to make it very clear that I am not speaking on behalf of these foreign artistes but rather in the interest of the SBC.

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the masked remark made by the Member for Leng Kee about recruitment of foreign artistes. In the recruitment of foreign artistes or local artistes, the auditioning process plays an important part. However, it is not practical to put a potential artiste through, for instance, the whole gamut of character roles before a contract is offered. SBC's effort at recruiting overseas talent has been largely successful. In a few instances, artistes hired have not been found to be wholly satisfactory and therefore they have been asked to go. The same applies to local artistes who are not found to be up to the mark after they were recruited, and their services are terminated.

At present, SBC offers artistes contracts ranging from six months to three years. In the light of recent experience, and to take the point that the Member made, SBC will in future be engaging artistes for short-term and, wherever possible, for specific productions. One of the problems, Mr Speaker, Sir, has been that artistes who are engaged on long-term contracts cannot be fully employed because their use depends upon other resources being available such as scriptwriters, producers, directors and so on. So in future, SBC will be recruiting artistes for specific projects, specific dramas or series and at the end of that project, they can go back to where they come from. If they are from Singapore, of course, they can do something else.

The attrition rate among artistes at SBC has not reached alarming proportions. Of the nearly 80 musicians, dancers, singers and dubbing voice talent, only three have not had their contracts renewed or terminated prematurely.

Dr Ow Chin Hock: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment which stood in the name of Mr Rohan bin Kamis was withdrawn:

(7) That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JD-01 of the Development Estimates. 4.00 p.m.

Mr Bernard Chen (Clementi): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead JE-05 Project 8101 of the Development Estimates.

Sir, the National Library has a Master Plan to introduce libraries in the major housing estates. But since the construction of these libraries has to take some time, the National Library has also provided an extension service whereby library books are loaned to smaller libraries in community centres for the readers until the new libraries are completed.

What I would like to find out from the Minister is whether we can improve the library extension service in terms of giving a greater number of books to these smaller libraries in the community centres, and also to make sure that the books sent to these smaller libraries are not old and out-dated. That is what I have understood from those who are using the libraries at the moment.

Mr Dhanabalan: Sir, the National Library provides bulk loans of 300 to 400 books at a time to community centres at their request. This library extension service provided over 24,000 books to over 20,000 people in 50 organizations, including community centres, Residents' Committees, child-care centres and so on. In addition, the Central Library lends books to two community centres, the Kampong Eunos Community Centre and also the community centre in Toa Payoh.

Books lent to community centre libraries by the National Library do not include old books or books which are not suitable for the young. Such books are likely to be obtained by the community centres themselves in the form of gifts of old books given away by residents and other donors. So perhaps the people who run these libraries have confused the books donated by residents with the books lent by the National Library. Community centres are welcome to make full use of the bulk loan facilities of the National Library which will provide them with a variety of good books for children and adults.

Mr Bernard Chen: Sir, I will take on the Minister another time and show him the books that we got from the extension service. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $22,710,190 for Head J ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $20,117,000 for Head J ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head W - The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement:

Mr S. Chandra Das: (1) That the sum to be allocated for Head W be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead WA-01 of the Main Estimates. (2) That the sum to be allocated for Head W be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead WC-01 of the Main Estimates.

Mr S. Chandra Das (Chong Boon): Sir, may I have your permission to speak on the two Amendments standing in my name?

The Chairman: All right.

Mr Chandra Das: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head W be reduced by $10 in respect of Subheads WA-Ol/WC-01 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, we attribute our economic growth and social progress to our belief and practice in the free enterprise philosophy. This philosophy tempered by the Government's perception of what is good for the people has served us well. Thus, the Government has on several occasions stepped in to dampen the fires of inflation.

Prices perform a very crucial role in a free market economy. Insofar as perfect competition does not exist in the real economy, it is justifiable for the Government to intervene and correct undesirable distortions. Indications are that the Government would and, in fact, should continue with this practice.

However, over the years, a new phenomenon has emerged. Here, I am referring to the phenomenon of trade associations such as those covering the pork merchants and others. The objectives and usefulness of these associations are commendable. Among other things, they serve as a focal point for consultation within the industry and as well as with the Government. However, this phenomenon has also given rise to an undesirable situation. These associations seem to collude and dictate price hikes. In fact, I am afraid these associations have degenerated into cartels, or at least in the danger of degenerating into cartels.

Would the Minister like to tell us what steps have been taken or will be taken to ensure that these associations do not degenerate into price-fixing and price-setting cartels?

Sir, next I would like to move on to my second amendment and this refers basically to the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board. I would like to raise the question of the 3% cess levied by the STPB. It is appropriate that the STPB should continue to develop tourist infrastructure and other attractions to induce tourists not only to visit but to stay more days in Singapore. Such developments and promotions cost money. So the STPB imposes a 3% cess on all bills at designated restaurants and other public entertainment spots.

In principle, the 3% cess looks very fine. However, a quick check will reveal that the majority of the patrons at these so-called tourist-orientated eating places and coffee houses are Singaporeans.

I strongly feel that the cess collected should also be utilized to promote national tourism. Here, I am referring to attractions for our citizens as well. For example, the National Museum could be transformed into a more appealing place suitable for Singaporean visitors as well as tourists.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to raise two questions for the Minister for Trade and Industry. Firstly, would the Minister explain the criteria whereby only certain restaurants and public places are liable for the 3% cess? Secondly, what steps are being taken to invest part of the cess collected to cater for the need of our citizens?

Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe (Geylang Serai): Sir, may I have your permission to speak now instead of on Amendment (3)?*

The Chairman: Yes.

Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe: Sir, one of the issues which my constituents frequently bring up when I meet them during my house-to-house visits, Meet-the-People sessions and on other occasions, is the rising cost of living. They are very disturbed that the cost of living is continuing to rise, especially the increase in food prices. In 1981 food prices rose by 10%. If we compare the increase in January 1982 to that of January 1981, the increase in food prices amounts to 16.3%. One reason for this, as the Minister has pointed out, is the Chinese New Year and in February food prices declined. I am happy to note that the Ministry of Trade and Industry is monitoring the inflation very closely. It is also looking into cheaper sources of food and other essential commodities. I would like to ask the Minister what progress has been made in this area.

Some trade associations, traders, manufacturers and producers act like cartels and engage in price fixing and other restrictive trade practices. This is against the spirit of free competition. They are tempted by the temporary imbalance in supply and demand to profiteer. Could the Minister elaborate on the action taken to deter blatant profiteering? What measures are being taken to ensure that the domestic prices of essential commodities and food items like rice, sugar, wheat flour are fair, having regard to prevailing prices of such commodities in the world markets?

The Minister for Trade and Industry (Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam): Sir, the Member for Chong Boon and the Member for Geylang Serai have both raised the question of trade associations and the danger of their degenerating into cartels. Perhaps they may have in mind a number of instances in the past few years when the office-bearers of some trade associations acted in collusion to effect uniform price increases which are then complied with by the members of their respective associations.

I share the Members' concern about such practices. Price fixing by associations is unhealthy and will not be condoned. We have a free trade policy in Singapore. By and large this policy has served us well and has benefited the consumer. It will be wrong for us to try and fix the prices of goods. In those countries where the prices of goods are fixed by the bureaucrat rather than by the free market, the inevitable result is an inefficient distribution system and ultimately shortages of foodstuffs and other goods, as has been shown repeatedly in Communist countries which have rigid central planning systems. Where possible, traders, shopkeepers should be permitted free play in fixing their prices. And if costs go up then, of course, prices must go up.

However, we should not and we will not tolerate increases which are administered by an association of traders, particularly when such increases are unjustifiably large. Fixing of prices by an association inhibits competition and is detrimental to the interests of consumers. My Ministry is actively looking into such practices with a view to introducing legislation to make it illegal for trade associations to engage in price fixing or other restrictive trade practices. I assure the Members that we shall pursue this matter vigorously.

The Member for Chong Boon has also asked about the criteria whereby certain restaurants and public places are subject to the 3% cess levied by the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board. He has inquired as to what steps are being taken to invest part of the cess proceeds to cater for the needs of our citizens.

Let me first give some background to this matter. The 3% cess is at present levied on two categories of establishment. Firstly, on all gazetted hotels and their food and beverage outlets. Secondly, on all restaurants outside hotels which are holders of a First-class Public House licence.

The Singapore Tourist Promotion Board is well aware that many Singaporeans patronize restaurants both in and outside hotels and are therefore subject to the 3% cess. STPB has therefore always adopted the principle that any new tourist project should also benefit our local people. Indeed any tourist attraction which does not appeal to our local people is also not likely to succeed.

Over the past few years STPB has, for example, spent a substantial amount of its resources to revive traditional festivals. These include the Mooncake festival, the Dragon Boat festival and the Kite-flying festival. More than 40,000 people attended last year's Dragon Boat and Mooncake festivals and 90% of these were Singaporeans.

STPB has also made substantial contributions to develop new attractions in Singapore and to upkeep existing attractions. Since 1971 the grants, subsidies and contributions made by STPB totalled $23 million. Although these attractions are sometimes called "tourist attractions" the majority of visitors to these attractions are, in fact, our own people. The following are a few examples of some of the larger contributions made by the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board: Contribution to the Singapore Zoological Garden $1.4 million Contribution to the Jurong Bird Park $0.5 million Contribution to the Sentosa Development Corporation $2.9 million

Furthermore, the STPB has recently decided to set aside for the Sentosa Development Corporation a further sum of $10 million in this financial year to develop Sentosa into a premier recreational resort for Singaporeans and their families.

The Member for Chong Boon has also cited the National Museum as one of the local attractions that could be improved for locals and for tourists with perhaps the assistance of STPB.

4.15 p.m.

The Singapore Tourist Promotion Board is, in fact, prepared to provide financial support for the redevelopment of not only the National Museum but also the whole of the Fort Canning Park area. The Tourist Promotion Board has set aside $10 million for this purpose. The Board is at present awaiting the completion of a study by the Museum Development Committee which is drawing up a long term redevelopment plan for the National Museum. The STPB will make a decision on its contribution once the master plan is ready.

Finally, the Member for Geylang Serai has asked, in general, what measures have been taken by my Ministry to check the increases in food prices. As I mentioned during the debate on the financial policy of the Government, prices of essential food items are monitored by the Committee on Profiteering and Inflation. This Committee meets regularly to monitor prices and price changes. Under the guidance of this Committee, the Department of Trade ensures that supplies of essential commodities such as rice, sugar and wheat flour are sufficient and readily available. The Department of Trade also ensures that our traders do not restrict supply so as to artificially push up prices or to profiteer. When world prices decline our traders should also keep in line with the international market. For example, following the decline in international prices of rice and sugar, the Department of Trade has successfully influenced the reduction of local retail prices of these two commodities to the benefit of our consumers. The Government has also actively encouraged the import of foodstuffs from both traditional and non-traditional sources to ensure that there is adequate supply at competitive prices. For example, when there was a shortfall in the supply of pork late last year, imports of pigs from neighbouring countries were allowed. Though pork prices remained high in January as a result of the festive season, I am sure that Members will know that the situation has returned to normal and pork prices have now come down to much fairer levels.

I assure the Member that the Department of Trade will continue to seek cheaper sources of supplies in order to ensure that the cost of foodstuffs in Singapore is kept at the lowest possible level.

Mr Chandra Das: Sir, I am grateful to the Minister for his very positive response to my request. On this note, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Lim Boon Heng (Kebun Baru): Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head W of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100*.

Sir, the financial policy of the Government, as outlined by the Minister for Trade and Industry during the Budget statement, seeks to ensure that the economic restructuring that was commenced in 1979 would continue to make progress. Several deliberate policy measures have been taken since June 1979 to speed up the pace of restructuring throughout all sectors of the economy.

One of the primary targets of the economic restructuring process is to improve the overall productivity of the workforce. The Government therefore launched a three-year wage correction policy - firstly, to drive home the point that labour is a precious resource to be used efficiently, and secondly, to bring wage levels to equilibrium level. The ,wage increases were implemented gradually over three years to allow employers to anticipate the full range of wage adjustment and to make their plans accordingly. According to the Economic Survey of Singapore 1981 published by the Ministry of Trade and Industry, there are already encouraging signs of industries responding well to the policy.

According to statements made by the political leadership since the announcement of the NWC wage increases in June last year, it is expected that wage increases this year will come to normal levels and be closely related to productivity increases. This begs the question: what is a normal increase? Is "normal" to be taken to mean the average wage increases before 1979 or is the increase to be the average of the last three years? It would not be fair to our workers if we take "normal levels" to mean the average wage increases that we have experienced before 1979. During that period, there was a deliberate policy to keep wages low because we did not want to price Singapore products out of the world market. On the other hand, would it be fair to take the average of the last three years' wage increases to be the level of normal wage increases?

Sir, the National Wages Council has commenced discussions on this year's wage increase. It is not my intention to dilute the role of the NWC. However, I feel that the terms "normal wage increase" and "productivity" are contentious terms because of misunderstanding. At the same time, wage and productivity trends are crucial factors influencing economic development. It is the function of the Ministry of Trade and Industry to analyse the implications of these trends.

I would therefore request the Minister to enumerate the factors that must be taken into account in determining a wage increase, so that the parties to wage bargaining will be able to arrive at a fair wage increase for our workers without undermining our economic growth.

It is also the function of the Ministry of Trade and Industry to promote industrial development. Several pace-setting steps have been taken by the Government including the computerization of the Civil Service and the setting up of the National Computer Board, to act as a catalyst for the widespread adoption of computer technology in all sectors of industries.

At the same time the Ministry of Trade and Industry should closely monitor the productivity growth of each sector of industry. The Ministry should also determine the reasons for low productivity growth. The Economic Survey of Singapore 1981 commented that the productivity performance of the trade sector was dismal. What steps can the Ministry take to assist this sector? Could the Ministry, for example, organize study tours for the trade sector to see whether we can learn from the experiences of other countries? Perhaps the Ministry could commission a comprehensive study to find out the causes of low growth and to develop strategies for higher growth. The Ministry may want to consider providing a service to inform local entrepreneurs of technological developments that have been successfully adopted elsewhere.

In this respect, I would like to make a suggestion in connection with departmental stores and supermarkets which have been criticized by one employer's association as employing staff just to be unproductive. The supermarkets, warehouses and retail outlets in Europe and the United States have adopted bar coding. This is a code using a series of lines of varying thickness printed on the labels of goods. I am sure that Members have seen this code printed on consumer goods that we import from the developed countries. This bar code allows an optical reading device, the laser scanner, attached to the cash register, to read the information on the bar code symbols. At the point of sale, the cash register which is linked to a central computer will then identify the product and the price, and charge the customer accordingly. Simultaneously, the supermarket stock level record is amended. When the stock level falls below a pre-determined level, the central computer will automatically issue instructions for replenishment. In effect, the cashier at the terminal is simultaneously checking out the goods, billing the customer and updating stock records. Furthermore, the adoption of bar codes will dispense with the laborious task of labelling each product with a price tag. All that needs to be done is to display the price label on the shelf. If there is a price change, then all that needs to be done is to change the price in the central record in the computer and the price label on the shelf. The adoption of bar codes in the retail trade therefore seems a logical step to take to promote higher productivity. The Ministry could help to give greater publicity to this system and to assist local entrepreneurs to implement this system. There is also a need for our manufacturers to be familiar with bar codes if they are to successfully export their products to developed countries. One local company has already commenced to use bar code labels on their soft drink packets. Others should be made aware of the use of bar codes.

If the Ministry of Trade and Industry can actively promote labour saving systems, such as the one I have just described, it would accelerate the restructuring of local industries.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, the Member for Kebun Baru has inquired if I could comment on the factors determining a normal wage increase that workers may expect in 1982. It seems to me to be a rather leading question. I am sure that the Member knows that the guidelines for wage increases are a matter for deliberation by the National Wages Council which has representatives from the Government, unions and employers. The NWC secretariat has started to seek the views of the private sector and the unions for the purpose of helping the NWC establish what guidelines it should recommend to Government on the magnitude of the wage increase for 1982-83. I shall therefore refrain from the temptation to pre-empt its findings here.

Nevertheless, I think that it would be in order for me to comment briefly on the factors which, in my view, should influence wage increases this year. I shall speak in general terms and scrupulously avoid making any specific projections which might embarrass the NWC. First of all, we must take into account the wage correction policy carried out over the last three years during which high wage increases of over 20% per annum were deliberately recommended. The purpose of the wage correction policy was to speed up the pace of our economic restructuring and, as we have already announced, 1981 was the last year of the three-year wage correction policy. In future, we must make sure that our wage increases go up in line with growth in productivity, particularly where the increases in productivity are due, not so much to increased capital investment by the employer but more as a result of the application of higher skills and production of better quality work by the worker. In this way, we can make sure that our goods and services will not be priced out of our export markets. We will then retain our competitiveness and Singapore will continue to attract high quality investments with consequent benefits for our workers. If we can improve our productivity as we have done in the last year, then there is no reason why our wage increases should not keep ahead of inflation which fortunately will, I believe, be moderate this year. This will be a considerable achievement when we see how workers in other countries are fighting a losing battle not to improve but merely to maintain their standard of living. 4.30 p.m.

The Member has also pointed out the low productivity of the trade sector and suggested that a comprehensive study should be done to find out the causes and to develop new strategies, My Ministry monitors closely the productivity growth of each sector of our economy. Now, one of the main reasons for the poor performance of the trade sector in 1981 was simply the stagnation in world trade. However, as the Member for Kebun Baru has pointed out, one has only to look around our hotels, restaurants and department stores to draw the conclusion that we can do more to improve productivity in the trade and commerce sector. The National Productivity Council has established a Committee to consider ways to improve productivity in this sector. This Committee, which comprises representatives from the relevant Government departments and statutory bodies, unions and the private sector, will initially concentrate on the hotel and the retail sector.

The Member has also mentioned the use of the bar code system used in the point of sales system in the United States and some other developed countries. I have two comments on this system. Firstly, the bar code system is particularly useful for large countries where domestic manufacturers supply the bulk of consumer market requirements. Therefore, the United States, Japan and the United Kingdom have each adopted their own bar code systems. Unfortunately, there is no universally accepted code as yet. Since no single country provides more than 20% of our imports, our supermarket operators may not find the bar code system to be cost-effective if they have to re-label 80% of their shelf products.

Secondly, when we refer to the retail trade, we should not think in terms of only the supermarkets and the department stores. Our census figures show that there are about 4,500 establishments in the retail trade. Of these, there are only 81 supermarkets and department stores. In terms of sales volume, their share forms only 16% of the total retail trade in Singapore. I am, of course, not opposed in principle to the use of the bar code system by our local supermarkets and shops, but it is up to them to make their own calculations and to consider the use of this system in relation to the economics of their own operations.

Mr Lim Boon Heng: Sir, as far as the bar code system is concerned, my understanding is that an international code will very soon come into practice. So I hope the Minister would have a second look at this matter. On that note I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $62,088,430 for Head W ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $494,106,000 for Head W ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

The Chairman: I propose to take the Suspension now.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 5.05 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.35 p.m. until 5.05 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.05 p.m

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head V -

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi (Kampong Kembangan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead VA-01 of the Main Estimates.

Usually, Sir, when I speak on the Ministry of Social Affairs, I would spend some time talking about the Singapore Islamic Religious Council or Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS). This year I do not intend to speak a lot about MUIS. I do not have much to criticize them. But if you will allow me, Sir, I would like to say a few words of praise. I have seen the President, the officials and staff of MUIS spending so much time in trying to understand and to solve the problems that are referred to MUIS. But I sense a style in which strenuous efforts are made to reach out to the community to go down to the ground, to meet the common people, to have more regular dialogue sessions. I think this is the sort of style that MUIS should continue, because it is only by going down to the ground and meeting the people will MUIS understand the feelings, sentiments, aspirations and problems of the Muslim community. I therefore like to take this opportunity to encourage the President, the Council members and staff of MUIS to continue the good work.

There have not been many problems really pertaining to the Muslim community. Maybe there are problems of possible increases in the construction price of mosques but I am sure this is being catered for quite adequately, and the response of the community in raising the required funds has been most encouraging.

There is, however, a recent development concerning religious mission committees or, in Malay, it is called Jawatankuasa Hajah Dakwah (JHD). It is a committee which consists of representatives of various religious organizations, Muslim religious organizations of a particular region or catchment, and they work together to upgrade various community services and religious education in respect of the residents in that particular catchment. This is a very good move because it brings together the programmes of various bodies in that particular region. It also leads towards better coordination and better use of the limited amount of personnel or leaders in the area.

This Jawatankuasa Hajah Dakwah is a new concept. It ought to be implemented with proper planning because if it is not done in a proper way, the JHD will weaken or negate the activities of bodies which have long been operating in the area. I think the JHD will not serve the purpose that it has been set for if this happens. I would therefore like to ask the Minister if he could inform the House about the programmes of the JHD, in particular, how many committees have been formed so far, how many civic organizations are involved in the Jawatankuasa Haiah Dakwah? What have been the activities so far, and what are the important roles the JHD can play in the socio-economic development of Singapore?

Secondly, Sir, there is an apparent misconception that MUIS has been seen as a body which caters only for the Malays in the community. I think it is necessary for me in this debate to mention that, from my dealings with MUIS and its officials, the scope of MUIS covers all Muslims, whether they are Malays, Tamil Muslims or other non-Malay Muslims. I think this has been so and will continue to be so. In fact, the members of the Council are not all Malays. There are non-Malays in the council. MUIS should spend time to assess how serious this problem is because if it is not clarified at the early stage, there could be a misconception about the role and contribution that MUIS can make in the socio-economic development of the Muslims in this Republic.

The third point which I would like to raise, Mr Speaker, Sir, concerns the aged, in particular the sick aged. I understand from my colleagues, the hon. Member for Punggol, that there is a long waiting list of applicants wanting to seek admission into the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai in Punggol Constituency. This Home, I understand, offers not only accommodation but also food and other related services. But there is a limit to what this Home can do to help the aged sick. I understand that the Home receives $60 from the Social Welfare Department for each patient who is a recipient of public assistance allowance. I have been informed that to maintain a patient, the Home needs more than $200 per month. This is considered modest or even low because I know of other homes for the aged sick which spend more than $1,000 per month for each patient. I am aware, Sir, that the Home at Jalan Payoh Lai does receive from time to time contributions both in cash and in kind from various charitable and voluntary organizations and also from individuals in Punggol. But these I am sure are far from adequate.

I would therefore like to ask the Minister for Social Affairs two questions: (1) whether the Ministry has plans to help the Home at Jalan Payoh Lai and also other Homes resolve their financial problems; and (2) in view of the long waiting list, whether the Ministry's appeal to charitable organizations to set up Homes for the Aged has met with any success.

The fourth point I wish to mention concerns the day care centres. The Ministry of Social Affairs has set up a number of day care centres for children. This is to cater particularly for those children who have working parents. I think this concept is good. I would like to know whether the Ministry has plans to expand this. If so, could the Ministry consider the possibility of getting pensioners, aged people, to be involved in the possible administration and running of these day care centres because I know grandfathers and grandmothers can be close to children and how well they can look after children. If in a particular neighbourhood we can get pensioners to be associated actively with these day care centres, I am sure they will not only feel useful but they can also give a substantive contribution to the care of the children in the constituency.

If this concept is a possible concept, then it can lead to the possibility of having a place where the old people can congregate, meet and also rest. I know many constituencies have started centres for the aged. But I would like to see if this could be extended and linked to these day care centres. Our concern is social service for the needy. Our concern is also to ensure that all Singaporeans not only have decent living standards but also raise the quality of life.

I am concerned about the recent statement where - 5.15 p.m.

The Chairman: Encik Mansor, you have one minute left.

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi: - where a Member of the House has made reference to the fact that there are people in Singapore who are said to be starving. I do not want to make an issue with the hon. Member for Anson, but I think his statement is a very serious statement and I wonder whether the Minister has anything to say on this point. I am sure, as the Ministry of Social Affairs is concerned with social service, the Minister would be in the best position to know who are the people in Singapore who are really starving.

The Chairman: Dr Toh, as I said, I allow you to speak because you have been away.

Dr Toh Chin Chye (Rochore): Sir, I am obliged to you for permitting me to speak in the Committee of Supply. Sir, I speak against the background of proposed salary increases in the Civil Service and increases in pension allowances for those who are drawing under $850 a month. It is unfortunate that I should do so under the heading of the Ministry of Social Affairs.

I would like to draw the attention of the House to a relevant fact. In 1981 the cost of administration was budgeted at $2.5 million. In 1982 it is $4.4 million, or an increase of 76%. The budget for Community Services, for which the Ministry is really responsible for, was $14.2 million in 1981 and $15.8 million in 1982, an increase of 11%. If we were to take the cost of administration at headquarters against the value of community services the Ministry is offering, we find that the ratio of Administration cost to Community Services is 1:5.7 in 1981 and 1:3.6 in 1982. I think the meaning of these figures is quite clear - that we are getting less community service for more administrative work. We have been talking so much about productivity. Obviously this is an index which the Ministry of Social Affairs may well have to look into.

While I am in a way sympathetic to the Ministry of Social Affairs - to the Minister in particular, because it may not be his fault really that he is not providing more community services - I see there is really a distortion in the budgeting that we are providing more for administration and less for community welfare. Take Public Assistance. In 1971 there were 8,915 persons receiving a disbursement of $2.71 million. In 1981 this has been reduced by more than half to 3,809 persons receiving $3.4 million. It works out that in 1971 the average disbursement was $304 per person per year. In 1981 it was $892 per person per year. However, do not be mistaken by figures because this does not reflect the generosity of the Ministry. We have to discount for inflation. If we were to consider that $1 in 1971 was worth 25 cents in 1981, the recipient in 1981 was really receiving only $223 a year.

For 1982 the budget for Public Assistance is $4.35 million, of which $793,000 is for staff salaries, allowances and CPF contributions and contributions to the Skills Development Fund, leaving only $3.5 million for Public Assistance. What it adds up to is that it costs $1 to give away $4.40.

The Ministry in some respects is to be sympathized, and in some respects I think we need to spur it on to greater efforts. It is commendable that the Ministry's staff has carried out a survey on the aged. As the report is not available to Members of Parliament, we will have to take it at face value from excerpts which have appeared in the newspapers. Reading it, I must confess I find it difficult making sense of the conclusion they have come to, The relevant passages are:

'Only 15.6% of the households had income less than $400 a month while 30.2% had income of $1,000 and more.'

I was just wondering how was it that they did not measure the number of families that were earning less than $1,000 a month. They went on to say:

'Most of the non-government homes charge between $100 and $300 a month.' I have a vested interest here, Sir, in admitting that my Rochore Citizens' Consultative Committee runs a Kongsi for the aged. They do not charge $100 a month. Therefore, I think this is a perversion of a fact. Secondly, they say:

'The fact that they can still afford to support the residents shows that financial difficulties are unlikely to be strong reasons for the residents' admission.'

I cannot help feeling that it is reductio ad absurdum. I want to point out to the Minister, lest he has forgotten his 1980 Annual Report, that there are currently 14 non-profit community homes run by the public for the aged, of which I mentioned there are two in Rochore, one organized by the Welfare committee of my Citizens' Consultative Committee and the other by the Christian Brothers. These homes cannot substitute for the Ministry's efforts. They can only be supplementary.

What I would like to put to the Minister are these two questions. (1) Is it the Ministry's policy to encourage public-spiritedness in helping in the care for the aged? Will it deal with more sympathy the problems faced by voluntary bodies who are now running these community homes? (2) What is the attitude of the Ministry to public assistance being given to a resident in one of these homes, should such a resident be able to find part-time employment and be given a nominal allowance?

Sir, I raise these two questions with considerable passion because it involves a tenant or resident in my Rochore Kongsi for the Aged. The practice in the Kongsi is that they, being recipients of public assistance, should be able to contribute towards their own upkeep. But this is not possible because at $60 a month you expect them to live on two meals a day. It is not possible. 70% of the expenditure of the Kongsi goes to purchases of food. For every $1 that the resident contributes to the operation of the Kongsi, $1.60 has to be found from donations. In practice, we return $15 for every $60 that the resident receives. The $15 is being kept by the resident for his own consumption. So the resident really contributes $45.

The idea of the Kongsi came from my observation that the amahs in my constituency were very self-sufficient. They never went to the Government for jobs nor did they plead for public assistance. But they pool their resources together and there were 40 of them in one decrepit old house. They manage to get along and survive through cooperative efforts. It was this that gave us the idea for the Kongsi and how those on public assistance can learn to help themselves by pooling their resources.

The cost per person per month in my Kongsi works out to round about $140 per month per person. This excludes the cost of voluntary nursing provided for by volunteers from the Singapore Nursing Association and also visits by a general practitioner who is a member on the Board. What I would like to raise is this.

The Chairman: Dr Toh, you have one minute more.

Dr Toh Chin Chye: We have to use one of the residents to provide information to the members of the Board who are all part-time on the Kongsi, information as to who among the residents require medical treatment, who requires hospitalization, and who are terminally ill so that they can be provided for. This man happens to be in receipt of public assistance. But because the Committee on the advice of the officer of the Social Welfare Department gave him an allowance of $100 for this administrative work for keeping records, to my consternation I learn that his allowance of $60 was withdrawn. Today this man is now living on our hands without public assistance. I would like, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister to give his judgment on this case and to reply to the questions that I put.

The Chairman: Your time is up, Dr Toh. Dr Mattar.

The Acting Minister for Social Affairs (Dr Ahmad Mattar): Sir, I will first deal with the questions raised by the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan. He has raised three issues which concerns my Ministry directly and several issues concerning the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS).

I shall now deal with the issues concerning MUIS. First, let me outline to the House the objectives of the Jawatankuasa Haiah Dakwah (JHD) or the Islamic Missionary Committee. The objectives are:

(a) to organize the celebrations of Islamic commemorative occasions.

(b) to organize talks, lectures, general discussions, seminars, forums on Islam.

(c) to distribute, to interested Muslims, books, journals, magazines and other literature on religion published by the Central Islamic Missionary Committee or JHD Pusat.

(d) to develop good neighbourliness.

(e) to eliminate the propagation of false doctrines.

JHD is a three-tier structure, Sir. At the head, there is the Executive Committee made up of two members of the MUIS Public Relations Committee, five members drawn from leading Muslim organizations and six ex-officio MUIS representatives from the MUIS Secretariat. Then there is a Central Organizing Committee which is made up of one representative and one observer each from the District Committees and from Muslim organizations and their affiliates. Finally, Sir, there are the District Committees made up of one representative each from the various organizations, mosques, suraus, madrasahs, Resident and HDB Block Committees in the districts concerned. To-date 24 District Committees have been formed. A list of these District Committees will be made available to the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan if he so wishes.

Next, I shall go on to the number of civic organizations involved in the JHD. Sir, 11 Muslim civic organizations are involved in the activities of the JHD at the Central Organizing Committee level. Again, the names of these associations will be made available to the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan, if he so wishes. However, I do not have information on the number of civic organisations involved at the JHD at the District level. If he still requires this information, Sir, I will ask MUIS to send it to him later.

The Activities of JHD

At the Central Organizing Committee level, the JHD Pusat organized the Awal Muharram celebrations 1402 at the National Theatre and the Prophet Muhammad's Birthday celebrations at the National Stadium. The District Committees also organized similar functions to celebrate these two occasions in their various districts. A Koran Reading competition was organized by the JHD Gabungan Pekerja-Pekerja Makanan dan Minuman (Food and Drinks Employees Federation) and more functions are being planned at the District level as pad of JHD's objectives to propagate the teachings of Islam. 5.30 p.m.

Then the hon. Member went on to ask about the role the JHD can play in the socio-economic development of Singapore. Sir, JHD can play a useful role in:

(i) centralizing the socio-religious activities in the different districts; and

(ii) synchronizing fund-raising campaigns in aid of specific projects, for example, bursaries, scholarship schemes, tutorial classes, training programme for "da'is" or missionaries. The JHD is also assisting the Muslim Counselling Service of SANA by providing it with venues and speakers for lectures and talks to Muslim youths to drive home to them the message that drug-taking is dangerous and injurious to health.

The Member then went on to talk about non-Malay Muslim representation on MUIS. As he has correctly pointed out, there are non-Malay Muslim representations on the present MUIS Council. I can assure the Member for Kampong Kembangan and the House that we will try to get a few more good ones in.

The third issue raised by the Member for Kampong Kembangan is on the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai. He has asked two questions. The first question was whether there are plans to help the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai and also other homes to resolve -their financial problems. Sir, at the moment, there are no plans to help the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai because the home is financially sound. The said Home, like other similar Homes and, as correctly pointed out by the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan, obtains its funds mainly through donations from the various charitable Foundations, the Turf Club and also the general public.

The Home had healthy surpluses of $119,103 and $253,591 for its income and expenditure account for 1980 and 1981 respectively. The surpluses represent 69% and 119% of the recurrent expenditure of the corresponding years. In addition, Sir, the Home has many other funds, such as Accumulated Fund, Amenities Fund, Building Reserve Fund, etc. These funds amounted to $1.15 million and $1.4 million for 1980 and 1981 respectively.

But the Government, Sir, does provide indirect financial assistance to such Homes through Public Assistance allowances to residents who are Singapore citizens and through the Silver Jubilee Fund administered by my Ministry to those residents who are permanent residents. The Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai, for instance, receives about $6,145 per month for 103 Public Assistance recipients out of its total resident population of 140. Another $520 per month is paid to 13 of its residents from the Silver Jubilee Fund. These 13 are, of course, permanent residents and as the Member for Kampong Kembangan as well as Members of the House know that from 1st April 1982 Public Assistance rates will be in accordance with the revised rates which I have announced in the sitting of this House on 15th March 1982.

Sir, such Homes are also granted tax exemption for donations received, while donors are also granted tax exemption on their donations. Government officials and representatives of the Singapore Council of Social Service serve on the Management Committees of such Homes to advise on their operations. In the case of other Homes for the aged sick, like Villa Francis and Sree Narayana Mission Home for the Aged Sick, my Ministry also assists them in obtaining leasehold land or premises at nominal rental.

For example, in the case of Villa Francis which was built on a piece of leasehold land in 1973, this piece of land was obtained for the Villa Francis through the support of the Social Welfare Department. The Singapore Council of Social Service was then entrusted with the task of constructing the Home. The administration was then handed over to the Franciscan Missionaries of the Divine Motherhood, the Sisters of Mount Alvernia Hospital.

The Sree Narayana Home, with the support of the Ministry of Social Affairs, obtained approval from the Land Office to rent two blocks of double-storey buildings at a nominal rent of $12 per annum for setting up the Home in February 1979. The Home is sponsored by the Sree Narayana Mission and managed by an advisory committee. Unfortunately, Sir, the Sree Narayana Home is affected by acquisition but, nonetheless, the Ministry has managed to get an alternative site for the new Home in Yishun New Town.

Just for the information of this House, my Ministry did not assist the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai in getting leasehold land because this piece of land on which the house now stands was donated by a philanthropist, for which my Ministry and certainly the Government are grateful.

The Member for Kampong Kembangan then went on to ask whether the Ministry's appeal to charitable organizations to set up homes for the aged sick has met with any success. Sir, my Ministry's appeal to charitable organizations to set up homes for the aged sick has met with a good degree of success. To-date, Sir, nine voluntary organizations, including religious bodies and service clubs have embarked on or put forward proposals to provide for an estimated 565 beds for the aged sick. This will supplement the 213 beds in the three existing voluntary homes that have facilities for the aged sick, namely, Villa Francis, Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai and the Sree Narayana Mission Home for the Aged Sick.

Just for the information of this House, Sir, the nine charitable organizations that have responded positively to the appeal are:

The Phor Kar See Old Aged Home - now under construction. This $5 million project is expected to complete by the middle of this year.

Then there is the Ling Kwang Home for the Aged which is sponsored by the Bible Presbyterian Welfare Services. The Management Committee have already embarked on fund-raising projects to raise $5 million.

The Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai itself is also embarking on an expansion programme. Another wing to house the aged sick will soon be constructed.

Then there is the Methodist Welfare Service which is planning to set up a home for the aged sick in a disused Tamil school at St. George's Road. My Ministry will render whatever assistance we can to secure the premises.

The Singapore Lions Club has already been offered a site at Gibraltar Crescent in Sembawang constituency for them to set up a home for the same purpose.

Then there is the Singapore Buddhist Lodge. This Lodge plans to construct a Welfare Complex for elders at Kim Yam Road and this includes a wing for the aged sick.

There is the Singapore Buddhist Federation which also has plans in the pipeline to reconstruct the Tat Kwong Buddhist Home to accommodate the aged sick.

The Singapore Buddhist Welfare Service has already purchased a site at Punggol Road and planning approval has already been given by the Building Control Division to set up a Welfare Complex, similar to that proposed by the Singapore Buddhist Lodge.

Lastly, Sir, the Hock Chuan Temple. This temple also plans to set up a Home for the aged sick and the handicapped destitutes.

The hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan also asked whether the Government would be setting up day-care centres for the aged in the same way as the Ministry has set up day-care centres for children of working parents. My answer to his question is that the Government has no plans at the moment to set up day-care centres for aged parents. But nevertheless the Singapore Council of Social Service (SCSS) which is under the Ministry of Social Affairs has started a pilot project called "Day-Care Centre for the Elderly", at No. 84, Block 119, Bukit Merah View, in November 1980. The Centre has a capacity for 30 ambulant and semi-ambulant persons aged 55 and above. It provides rehabilitative services, for example, basic therapy for the upper and lower limbs and occupational activities of daily living. It also provides simple medical treatment, lunch, refreshments, transport and also counselling and supportive care. The response has been encouraging. so far.

But whatever it is, Sir, the SCSS Day-Care Centre for the Elderly is, as I have mentioned earlier, at best a pilot project. Professionals and young adult family members may see these day-care centres as a solution to problems. But the attitude of Singapore's old people to daily attendance has yet to be tested. Problems related to transport and travel will have to be overcome, and we do not yet know what pattern of service provision will be necessary to motivate attendance.

Sir, I agree with the Member for Kampong Kembangan that day-care centres for the aged, like the day-care centres for children, would reduce the need for domiciliary services as the frail elderly would be attended to, and provided with company and supervision in a central place.

Sir, if I may announce at this juncture, the Singapore Action Group of Elders or better known as SAGE, and of which my colleague, the Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Trade and Industry is its advisor, also plans to set up an Elders Village to provide respite service to between 300 and 500 senior citizens. 5.45 p.m.

This is a very welcome move because such provisions would undoubtedly reduce the pressure on the family of long-term care of an aged patient. It is generally felt that members of the family can tolerate a greater degree of stress where there is some break to look forward to, where there are a few nights a week where sleep is undisturbed by the need to attend to the patient.

In the proposed Elders Village by SAGE, Sir, I am told that users will be taught good health habits and I have also been told that they will also be provided with indoor and outdoor recreational facilities, such as folk dancing, tai chi, etc. Those interested in gardening, for instance, can indulge in this outdoor activity, If they are not interested in any of these activities, they can just meet and talk about the good old days. Medical and nursing services, nutritional programme and special library service will also be provided. I am confident, Sir, that ambulant elders might find a week or two at the Village a welcome break from the hurly-burly of life in a three-generation flat household.

Sir, hitherto grassroots organizations, as well as voluntary organizations, run a total of about 20 senior citizens clubs, friendship clubs and other recreational centres for senior citizens. Working children can make arrangements to send their aged parents to any of these clubs while they are at work.

The hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan then mentioned something about "starving people" in Singapore. He was referring to something which was brought to the notice of this House last week. I know clearly what the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan has in mind. I think he was referring to the article in the International Herald Tribune of 15th March, 1982, which was brought to the attention of this House by my colleague, the Hon. Minister of State for Law and Home Affairs during the sitting on Tuesday, 16th March.

Sir, I would have preferred if the Member for Kampong Kembangan had submitted a Question for Oral Answer, for it would then give me an opportunity to give the Member for Anson a really good reply. But never mind, Sir. I was so angered and disgusted by the article that, I think, I can give just as good a reply, if not better, speaking off the cuff.

Let me see if I have a copy of that article with me today. Yes, I have it with me. It has remained in my brief case since it was given to me on the 15th March. I do not know why. By the way, this article was actually lifted from the New York Times. So we can see that there are at least two publications which carried this article: the International Herald Tribune and the New York Times. To refresh the memory of Members of the House, I would like to read the second last paragraph of the article:

"'But someone must say," he said, [he, referring to the Member for Anson], "that there are 5,000 detained people in Singapore who have not had a trial. People don't really know what is happening in Singapore. They see the clean streets and tall buildings and they don't know people are starving here." '

I would not touch on the part dealing with the 5,000 detained people. I leave it to my colleague, the Minister for Home Affairs and his Minister of State, to deal with it at the appropriate time, I am more interested in the "starving people." My reaction, when I read the article, was that it was a blatant lie.

Mr Jeyaretnam: You don't know if anyone is starving.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: But should we be surprised by such portrayal, by such description of Singapore from the Member for Anson? I am not surprised, especially after I have watched his conduct in this House during the current sittings.

Sir, if a Member of Parliament can utter untruths in this august Chamber, he can utter untruths elsewhere outside this Chamber. He can utter untruths at rallies during elections, by-elections; he can utter untruths at dinners at which he is the so-called guest of honour; he can also utter untruths to naive and gullible reporters.

Before I proceed to answer the Member for Kampong Kembangan, Sir, I would like to ask the Member for Anson one simple, straightforward question. Did he or did he not say or write those words which I have just read? Yes or no? That is all I am asking. He can answer later.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Yes, of course.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, the report in the International Herald Tribune and the report in the New York Times are the out-pourings of a man who, if you ask me, Sir, is himself starving of ideas and issues.

It is the responsibility of my Ministry to care for the under-privileged and the handicapped. Twenty years ago, Sir, there were thousands and thousands of people - more than 20,000 to be exact - who were receiving Public Assistance from the Government. Today there are only 3,300. Sir, sustained economic growth during the last 20 years of PAP rule in Singapore has ensured that every Singaporean who is willing and able to work can find a job. As a result, only a small number of persons, the genuinely needy comprising the physically infirm and disabled, rely on Public Assistance from the Government today. As I have mentioned in my reply to the hon. Member for Punggol on 15th March, 1982, the Public Assistance which the recipients receive is being supplemented by additional assistance in cash and in kind from welfare voluntary organizations and also from other funds administered by my Ministry. Let there be no mistake. This PAP Government knows where compassion ends and welfarism begins. We have no intention of smothering initiative and industry. We do not reward indolence.

My Ministry has for many years now implemented a continuing programme to alleviate the hardship of a singularly unfortunate sector of our population, namely, the destitutes. They comprise the elderly and the frail who can no longer look after themselves and have no close relatives in Singapore.

My Ministry runs four welfare homes with a total capacity of about 1,400 beds to cater to the needs of the destitutes. In addition, voluntary and religious welfare organizations provide between 2,100 and 2,200 beds in institutions run by them. Sir, we are mindful that most of these destitutes, having migrated to Singapore in the first half of the century, unaccompanied by their families, have contributed their fair share to the development of Singapore. Now that they have lost the ability to look after themselves, it is our duty to make sure that their basic needs are met. So, Sir, these "starving hordes" can only exist in the fertile imagination of the Member for Anson. It occurs to me that otherwise these people would have offered their services to the many employers who are having to recruit labour from other countries.

I think I have more or less finished with the issues raised by the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan. I shall now turn to the issues raised by the Member for Rochore.

I must thank the Member for Rochore for his sympathy to me as well as to my Ministry. I shall do my best, with his support, I hope, to get more money from my colleague, the Minister for Finance. He talked of a survey on the aged which appeared in a local,press. He said that it did not make any sense reading it. If that article does not make any sense to the Member for Rochore or to any reader, then it is the newspapers that is to be blamed. The survey which was reported in the local press is, in fact, Appendix VI to the Report of the Committee on the Care of the Aged which my colleague, the Minister for Health, mentioned in this House yesterday, and which my colleague, the Minister for Trade and Industry, also mentioned in his Budget Statement.

The Report, Sir, is still under consideration by me. It has not been released to the public yet. However, upon the request of the Singapore Council of Social Service, five copies were sent to, the Council on 15th June, 1981, with specific instruction that it was not for public release. I am unable to establish how the press managed to get hold of the report. In fact, during Suspension just now, I was approached by a lady reporter who gave me a list of questions. She wanted to interview me on the Report of the Committee on the Care for the Aged. Based on the revelation by the hon. Member for Rochore that there has already been a leakage to the press, I do not think I will grant her that interview.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Why not?

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Then the Member for Rochore also talked of a case of a Public Assistance recipient whose allowance was withdrawn. This recipient is a resident of the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged. 6.00 p.m.

Sir, first of all, let me recapitulate the facts of this case. I will not mention the full name of this person. I will just call him Mr Tan. The said Mr Tan was transferred from the Woodlands Home for the Aged to the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged in July 1977. As the Kongsi needed a warden but could not afford one on a full-time basis, Mr Tan was recommended by my Ministry for the job. Mr Tan was then paid a Public Assistance allowance of $40 per month and an honorarium of $80 per month. Out of the total of $120 per month received, Mr Tan had to contribute $40 per month, i.e. from his Public Assistance allowance, towards his maintenance in the Home. When the Public Assistance rate was revised in February 1980 from $40 to $60 per month, the honorarium given to him by the Home was also revised to $100 per month. He was then required to contribute $60 per month towards his maintenance in the Home. This was the tacit agreement between the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged and the Social Welfare Department.

Sir, when Mr Tan's case was reviewed in February 1981 to ascertain his continued eligibility for the allowance under the revised Public Assistance scheme of 1st February 1980, he was found to be ineligible for Public Assistance under the new regulations, as he was a resident warden of the Home with an income of $100 per month. He would still have $40 pocket money after deduction of $60 per month for his maintenance in the Home, even when his Public Assistance allowance of $60 was withdrawn. This is one of the criteria which we follow when we consider cases of Public Assistance, or whenever we review existing cases who are receiving Public Assistance.

In this case, the argument that has been brought forth by the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged to the Social Welfare Department is that the Public Assistance of $60 per month cannot maintain a destitute at today's cost of food alone. The argument by the Social Welfare Department was that this was also applicable to all the other recipients of Public Assistance in the Kongsi. This has been going on for some time, Sir. I am aware of this case. In this case, it is not Mr Tan who is asking for Public Assistance. It is the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged which is asking for the Public Assistance.

The Social Welfare Department strongly feels that if the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged thinks that Mr Tan has become a burden to the Kongsi, then the Social Welfare Department will be happy to re-admit him to the Woodlands Home where he came from.

Dr Toh Chin Chye: Mr Speaker, Sir, if the Minister for Social Affairs has worked out the estimates for running the Woodlands Home and the Woodstock Home which, together, have a total of 721 persons, he will find that on the average it will cost him $3,670 per person per year. And he is asking for Mr Tan to go back to the Woodlands Home at $3,769 per person per year, whereas we are asking the Minister or his staff to award Mr Tan $720 per year, at $60 per month. I am afraid the economics of it is all lost.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have said, Mr Tan was quite happy at the Woodlands Home for the Aged. He is a destitute person. He was having some kind of employment there too when he was at the Woodlands Home for the Aged. It was at the request of the Rochore Kongsi Home for the Aged - because as I have said earlier on, they could not afford to engage a warden on a full-time basis - that the Social Welfare Department recommended that Mr Tan be given the job. So, as I said, it is the Kongsi which is applying for the Public Assistance, and not Mr Tan. I am afraid that we have to abide by certain strict criteria in awarding Public Assistance. So the position remains as it is.

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi: Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for his explanation even though I realize that the hon. Member for Rochore is not fully satisfied. Never mind. In view of that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead VB-02 Object Group 3110 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, I would like to touch on two of the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura's main functions: (1) administration of mosques; and (2) promotion of Islamic education among the Muslims.

Under Phase I of the Mosque Building Fund Scheme, six modern mosques were built in various housing estates. These mosques are provided with various facilities including a common prayer hall, separate prayer room for the female wor- shippers, library and multi-purpose hall. Another nine new mosques will be built under Phase II of the Scheme. The achievements under the Mosque Building Programme are salutary, and I would like to congratulate MUIS as well as the various Muslim community leaders living in the various estates who have given their time and services on a voluntary basis for the good work done. They have worked very hard for the benefit of the Muslim community in Singapore.

However, I would like to make one observation on the Mosque Building Programme, namely, that there should be closer supervision during the construction period of these mosques. Some of the new mosques have various construction defects, namely, there are cracks along the walls, leaking roofs and so on. Among other things, these are due to poor workmanship. I would like to ask that closer supervision be exercised during the construction period which would help ensure that such defects are kept to the minimum. Further, the experience gained during the Phase I project can be put to good use for the Phase II project.

While we are building new mosques, we must not forget the older mosques in the Republic. From time to time, repairs and renovations have been carried out to maintain them in good condition. MUIS can also play a role to help the mosque committees of these older mosques to get financial assistance for their renovation programme.

On the promotion of Islamic education, we will be introducing religious education in Secondary 3 and 4 with options for the students to take up the subject at the 'O' level examinations. In this connection, MUIS is working with the Ministry of Education to provide teachers to conduct the Islamic Religious Knowledge classes, both in Malay as well as in other languages as may be required. I would like to ask what steps MUIS will take to ensure that there will be sufficient number of teachers who are qualified to teach Islamic Religious Knowledge in the schools. I would also like to comment that, in order that there will be adequate teachers, their terms and conditions of employment must be attractive.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin (Pasir Panjang): I wish to speak in Malay, Sir.

The Chairman: But your amendment is Amendment (3)*, Encik Abbas.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: Yes, but it is on the same topic, Sir.

The Chairman: So you are not going to move Amendment (3)?

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: No, Sir.

The Chairman: All right.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: ( In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, on this Subhead I wish to touch on three matters connected with MUIS. First, the role of the Muslim Religious Council; second, the problem of the construction of new mosques; and, third, deviationist or false teachings. I take this opportunity also to congratulate MUIS which has carried out its task very well, as has been voiced by the hon. Member for Kampong Kembangan just now.

Sir, the Muslim Religious Council, Singapore, is the highest controlling body in the Republic for all matters pertaining to Islamic affairs. Since its inception in 1968, the Council has been burdened with increasingly varied responsibilities.

In 1981, MUIS became involved in other missionary activities which include, among other things, the coordination of scholarships for Muslim students as well as supervising religious instruction in Singapore on a nation-wide basis, besides welfare homes, prisons, detention and rehabilitation centres. With the establishment of the Jawatankuasa Haiah Dakwah (JHD), MUIS has been coordinating the celebration of important festivities in the Muslim calendar throughout Singapore. MUIS has also been invited to attend conferences outside Singapore, involving various Islamic missionary activities.

What I would like to ask is whether MUIS has sufficient qualified and trained manpower to handle these multifarious responsibilities enumerated earlier. I pose this question with a view to ensuring that MUIS, being the highest body administering Islamic affairs in Singapore, can discharge its tasks and functions more effectively.

The second point that I wish to raise concerns the construction of new mosques. It has been announced that nine new mosques are to be constructed under Phase II of the Mosque Building Programme. In certain areas, Mosque Building Fund Committees have been formed. One pressing problem faced by these Committees is the competition for fund-raising projects. Apparently they all have a target for donations from the Muslim community.

In view of this, would it not be possible for MUIS to centralize all fund-raising activities and to coordinate all fund-raising programmes? 6.15 p.m.

My third point is on the prevention of false teachings. One of the initial responsibilities of MUIS is to check on the spread of false or deviationist teachings of Islam. Could the Minister throw some light on this subject? How many cases have been reported to-date? What remedial measures have been taken to warn the Muslim community of the unscrupulous intentions of the propagators of such false teachings?

Encik Saidi Haji Shariff (Kaki Bukit): ( In Malay): Sir, I would like to add and support all that have been said by my colleagues.

The Muslim Religious Council has been and is playing a positive role for the benefit of the Islamic religion and the Muslim community in Singapore. One of the most valuable services it has rendered to the Muslim community, in particular those living in HDB estates, is the building of new mosques under the Mosque Building Fund Scheme. Six mosques have been built so far under Phase I of its Mosque Building Programme, and I believe eight to nine more mosques are to be built under Phase II. The Muslim community has contributed to a large extent in terms of money and kind towards the building of these mosques which include the cost of land.

These mosques are constructed as large multi-purpose mosques. They have ample facilities such as conference rooms, libraries, halls for social gatherings and other purposes, classrooms and even wash rooms for the dead. These mosques are therefore meant to be used not only for religious purposes but also for community programmes. The main function of the mosque is to serve as a place of worship and it is important that Mosque Management Committees do not over-emphasize the other activities which detract from making it a place of worship. Running a mosque is just like running any organization. It is not a difficult and complex affair but we nevertheless must ensure that the mosques are properly managed and run to meet its objectives. Is the Hon. Minister satisfied totally with the work carried out by the Management Committees of the present six mosques? What are the difficulties and problems being faced by these Committees whose members are mostly resident volunteers? What plans do the Muslim Religious Council have to assist them and to ensure that these mosques and those to be built under Phase II are properly managed and run?

These mosques have been beautifully designed and built on land allocated by the HDB. The facilities in these mosques are meant for use by residents within the satellite town. It has been observed that these mosques are fully crowded with worshippers during Friday prayers to the extent that the open courtyard and every vacant place is taken up. The response of residents to the activities organised by the Mosque Management Committee such as commemoration of religious events like Birthday of Prophet Muhammad, religious and educational classes has been so overwhelming that the space and classrooms available are not sufficient to accommodate them satisfactorily. This kind of situation has made it necessary for the Mosque Management Committee to find ways and means to maximize the use of whatever space available. One mosque has taken the step to construct a roof over its open courtyard to accommodate the increasing number of worshippers. These additional constructions are commendable for its practical purpose and the good intention of the Mosque Management Committee but may perhaps mar the original aesthetic design and construction of the mosque.

I wonder whether sufficient consideration has been given to the number of Muslim residents in the estate before the mosque was designed and constructed. I believe that the designing and construction of the mosque is very much constrained by the land area available and the surrounding environment. It is therefore suggested that the Muslim Religious Council should ensure that maximizing the use of land allocated must be the over-riding guiding principle in the design of the mosque in our land-scarce Republic. Let our mosques have their own Islamic but unique Singaporean features. On the other hand, the Ministry of Social Affairs should strongly appeal to the HDB for a bigger allocation of land for the purpose of building mosques which in the long run could play a constructive role in community development in promoting a more cohesive, socially responsible and tolerant community in our satellite towns.

Another valuable service of the Muslim Religious Council to the Muslim community is its efforts in opposing teachings purported to be Islamic but deviate from the true path of Islam. The Council will respond accordingly and take the necessary action on receiving information that Muslim individuals or organizations are preaching doctrines which are misleading. It has also taken steps to scrutinize publications and recommends the banning of undesirable ones which pose a danger to Muslims in the Republic. Can the Hon. Minister inform the House to what extent has the Muslim Religious Council done in this direction? How many individuals and organizations have been identi- fied and advised by the Council to desist from teaching false doctrines? What steps are being taken by the Council to ensure that films and programmes shown on the TV are not undesirable and do not pose a danger to Muslims in the Republic?

Islamic Religious Missionary Committees have been formed to plan and coordinate religious activities in various districts in Singapore, particularly in the organization of religious events such as the commemoration of the Birthday of Prophet Muhammad. The HDB has been generous and cooperative with these Committees in allowing Muslim residents to hold these religious functions in the void decks and open spaces in the Estate.

It is observed that presently there are many religious classes being conducted by individual religious teachers or organizations in HDB estates. These classes are normally held privately in the flats of individual residents and they do not cause any inconvenience. These classes help to spread the teaching of Islam among Muslims and promote development of good citizenship and attributes of a desirable resident in a housing estate. This is also in line with our Government's encouragement for the people to study religion. In view of the size of these flats, these classes are not adequate to cater to the needs of the increasing number of children or adults who want religious instruction. The Islamic Religious Missionary Committee formed by the Council to function at HDB estates could undertake the organization of these religious classes. The problem faced by these committees is a proper place to conduct these classes. Can the Council consider ways and means to help find and allocate a suitable place in a void deck or a shop unit which these committees can use as an office and classroom for religious classes or study rooms?

One of the most valuable services of the Council to the Muslim community is the effort shown by the Council to associates and involve itself with grassroots Muslim/ Malay organizations in undertaking projects which are meant to uplift the education of Malay/Muslims both religious and secular. It has continued to give financial assistance to these organizations to enable them to continue with their good work. The Council has been collecting yearly fitrah from Muslims who are obliged to pay. The main object of this fitrah collection is to assist the poor and needy Muslims. The fitrah proceeds should be utilized fully according to the Muslim law governing distribution. I would like to request the Muslim Religious Council to consider whether the surplus monies collected could be utilized for educational purposes.

Mr Rohan bin Kamis (Telok Blangah): Sir, I would like to join my colleagues in commending the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS) for a good job done to-date. Six mosques have been built. God-willing, nine will be built in the years to come. I notice that with the appointment of a full-time President of MUIS in November 1980, more activities have been planned and implemented to the benefit of all Muslims in Singapore. Even the hygiene factor in the current MUIS offices has greatly been enhanced.

I would like to bring up two points. One is on the mosque, the other is on the Haj. Building mosques is already a difficult task as mosques are very expensive to build nowadays. Administering it is even harder. As mosques grow in number, its impact on our Muslim population will be greater. I notice that some mosques are well managed while others could have done better. My question is, would MUIS further strengthen the administration of some of these mosques by, say, conducting courses and provide guidance, and what plans are there to make sure that these are achieved so that the same high standard of administration can be achieved by all mosques?

The other point is on the Haj. Pilgrimage is a divine command to the Muslim. It may be worth mentioning that Muslim Singaporeans, who perform their pilgrimage to Mecca, are most happy with the services given by MUIS in coordinating such pilgrimage affairs. I am pleased to note that for the first time MUIS has even made available a medical doctor in Mecca and Medina. When I spoke to the pilgrims in Mecca, they were most appreciative of this move. Like all Singaporeans, we should not be complacent and I am sure that the Minister will be thinking of ways and means to further improve these good services. I would appreciate if the Minister could inform this House of the plans that he has to further improve these services.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, first of all, I will reply to some of the issues raised by the hon. Member for Geylang Serai. He has, all in all, raised five issues and I will take them one by one in the order they have appeared in his speech.

First, on the construction of new mosques. He talked of leakages and cracks on the walls, and other defects. If my colleague, the Minister for National Development, is here, he will agree with me that it is quite difficult to find any new building which is free of defects. It is unfortunately true, Sir, that defects, such as roof leakages, wall cracks, etc. were found in the mosques built under Phase I of the Mosque Building Programme of MUIS. 6.30 p.m.

However, under the building agreement which HDB entered into with the building contractors of the mosques concerned, the contractors were legally bound to rectify, without any additional charge, the defects which were uncovered during the one-year period from the date of the handing over of the mosque to the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura. Most of the defects found in these mosques were rectified within the one-year guarantee period.

On mosques to be built under Phase 2, I would like, at this juncture, to correct the Member for Telok Blangah. We plan to build only nine mosques - not more than nine as he said.

Mr Rohan bin Kamis: Sir, point of clarification. I said that I hope at least nine mosques will be built in future, not only under Phase 2, but also maybe under Phases 3, 4, 5 and so on.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Noted, Sir. Anyway, for mosques to be built under Phase 2 of the Mosque Building Programme, MUIS will liaise more closely with the HDB, its agent, to ensure that there will be more stringent supervision during the construction period to minimize defects.

The Member for Geylang Serai then discussed the renovation of old mosques. MUIS has provided, and will continue to provide, every assistance to Management Committees of old mosques that are in need of repairs and renovations. Firstly, before the Mosque Management Committee finalize plans for renovations, they are advised against embarking on grandiose renovations which are beyond their ability to pay. They should undertake only essential repairs, if they foresee difficulty in raising the required funds. Management Committees of old mosques undertaking renovations are also encouraged to be self-reliant by organizing fund-raising projects to meet the cost of renovation. Besides issuing the Mosque Management Committees with permits for fund-raising, MUIS also monitors the progress of the projects closely. When the situation calls for it, MUIS, in conjunction with the Singapore Local Council for Mosques, also assists the Management Committees to secure additional funds.

The third issue raised by the Member for Geylang Serai is on Islamic Religious Knowledge (IRK) in schools. So far, IRK classes have been conducted in the Malay language only. The Ministry of Education has decided that all ethnic Malay pupils in Secondary 3 and 4 will offer only Islamic Religious Knowledge programme which will be fully implemented in all schools by 1984. The subject will be taught by qualified Muslim teachers employed by the Ministry of Education. MUIS will work closely with the Ministry to assess the suitability of these teachers as well as to recommend other religious teachers should there be a shortage of teachers to teach the subject either in Malay or in English.

The Member wants to know the steps to be taken to ensure the provision of qualified teachers. At this moment, Sir, most of the 30 teachers qualified to teach IRK have been deployed to teach ML2 in schools (or Malay as second language). However, in view of the Education Ministry's policy on religious knowledge, these teachers will be deployed to teach the subject in Secondary 3 and 4 in the first instance. In case the Ministry of Education is still short of IRK teachers, then MUIS will assist the Ministry in identifying teachers from the present complement of ML1 and ML2 teachers in schools. MUIS and the Ministry of Education will ensure that teachers so identified will not only have a basic grounding in Islam but also possess an acceptable attitude towards the teaching of the subject. If more Islamic Religious Knowledge teachers are needed, the Education Ministry will also consider employing part-time teachers from amongst the existing complement of Ugama teachers presently teaching in Islamic schools in Singapore and authorized by MUIS. MUIS is prepared to assist the Education Ministry to draw up a teacher-training programme for IRK. The training should be undertaken this year and the next so that full implementation can take effect as scheduled in 1984.

The Member for Geylang Serai also wants an assurance that the terms and conditions of employment of Islamic religious teachers are attractive. Sir, qualified Islamic Religious Knowledge teachers employed full-time with the Ministry of Education will enjoy the same terms and conditions of service as their colleagues in the Education scheme of service. As far as the part-time teachers are concerned, their terms and conditions of employment will be comparable to those of other part-time teachers employed by the Education Ministry. They will be paid the current rates. This was assured to me by the Ministry of Education. If the Member for Geylang Serai would like my colleague, the Minister of State of Education to confirm what I have said, he is available in the House.

I next turn to some of the issues raised by the Member for Pasir Panjang. He has touched on three important issues. Firstly, on the manpower of MUIS; secondly, on the building of new mosques by MUIS, and the third issue raised was the check on false teachings of Islam.

Manpower

Last year, during the debate on the Estimates of Expenditure for the Financial Year 1981, in reply to a question by the Member for Telok Blangah, I informed the House that my Ministry had asked the Management Services Department to make a study of the MUIS Secretariat. The House was told that consequent to the MSD study, the Ministry of Finance had approved one post of Financial Officer and one post of Public Relations Officer, both in the Executive Personnel Group, and the upgrading of the part-time post of President of MUIS to a full-time Superscale Grade 'H' post. An Education Officer has been seconded from the Ministry of Education to MUIS to perform the duties of Public Relations and Information Officer. The post of Executive Officer (Finance) has recently been advertised after several unsuccessful attempts to second a suitable officer from the civil service to fill this position.

Activities which are related to religious affairs have increased significantly during the last couple of years, and it is the Mufti's responsibility to ensure the efficient resolution of problems in this area of work. Last year, my Ministry requested the Ministry of Finance (Budget Division) to create a post in the General Executive Personnel Group so that an officer can be recruited to assist the Mufti. Unfortunately, this request was turned down.

The MUIS Secretariat has 26 officers. It is headed, as Members have mentioned earlier on, by a very capable President who has more than 30 years of administrative and teaching experience behind him. I am confident that under his able guidance MUIS is fully capable of performing its multifarious activities efficiently.

Development of new mosques

I agree with the Member that there should be a central body to plan, to organize and implement fund-raising projects to finance the activities of the new mosques. I am pleased to state, Sir, that MUIS has given its unequivocal support to the formation of a joint committee to coordinate the activities of mosques in HDB new towns. This Committee known as Jawatankuasa Penyelaras Masjid (Mosque Coordinating Committee) or LARAS for short, was set up in January this year. While the main object of this Committee is to centralize fund-raising activities, its other laudable objects are to standardize:

1. the salaries of imams, bilals and religious teachers;

2. the allowances to be paid to guest speakers who are invited by Mosque Management Committees to give talks on special occasions;

3. the fees to be paid by children and adults attending religious classes organized by Mosque Management Committees;

4. the rental for the use of conference rooms in mosques by Muslim organizations; and

5. the syllabus for kindergarten and religious classes conducted in the various mosques.

This Committee will involve Mosque Management Committee members in pooling their efforts to jointly celebrate Muslim festivals, such as the Maulud (or the celebration to commemorate the Prophet's birthday).

Members of LARAS comprise representatives of the Management Committees of the six mosques built under Phase I of the Mosque Building Programme and representatives of the Mosque Building Committees of four mosques to be built under Phase 2. The building committees of the remaining five mosques under Phase 2 will be invited to join LARAS as and when they are formed. Each management or building committee is represented on LARAS by its Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer.

The projects are being undertaken by LARAS to raise funds. They are the sale of Hari Raya cards and the organization of a Jog-a-walk. LARAS will print 100,000 cards for sale to the Muslim public in 1982. The profit from the sale will be distributed based on the number of cards sold by each member. A Jog-a-walk will be launched towards the end of the year. Other activities are in the pipeline.

Sir, while the Mosque Buildinq Committees are receptive to the concept of centralized fund-raising activities, there are some Muslim individuals who prefer to donate regularly to a specific mosque. That is why Mosque Building Committees appoint block representatives to collect, from such individuals, monthly voluntary donations for the Administration Fund of the mosque concerned. Check on False Teaching of Islam

Since 1974, MUIS has received nine complaints on false teachings of Islam. Investigations on eight of these complaints have been completed, whilst the ninth is still being looked into. In the eight cases completed, five were referred to the Fatwa Committee for deliberation whilst the three more straightforward ones were handled by the Mufti personally. 6.45 p.m.

In all these eight cases, the Fatwa Committee and the Mufti have advised these teachers of the wrong doctrines they propagated and requested them to stop their practice. Sir, the Muslim community has been alerted to the unscrupulous intentions of the propagators of such false doctrines by exposing their wrong teachings in MUIS publications like Warita and at Friday sermons.

MUIS has also requested members of the Jawatankuasa Haiah Dakwah Islamiah (JHD) Pusat and its 24 district committees to be alert to any person propagating false teachings and to report him to MUIS. JHD is committed to promote the propagation of the teachings of Islam to the local Muslim public and, in doing so, will inform Muslims to be aware of false teachings.

I now come to the issue raised by the Member for Kaki Bukit. If I am not mistaken, he has raised about 10 issues altogether. First, I will deal with the work of the Mosque Management Committee and the difficulties and the problems faced by them. Members of the Mosque Management Committees are all volunteers. Most of them are holding full-time jobs during the day and some, on shift duties, may at times even work at night. Given these limitations, Sir, I am very satisfied with the good work that they have been doing for the Muslim community in Singapore. However, there is an insufficient number of Muslim professionals who have come forward to serve on these Mosque Management Committees. I have said this before in this House and also outside this House. Perhaps hon. Members of Parliament can persuade some of their Muslim friends to volunteer their services so that more and better activities can be organized in the mosque. But, of course, I would like to add that appointments to the Mosque Management Committees are subject to approval by MUIS.

Another issue raised by the Member for Kaki Bukit is how MUIS can ensure proper management of mosques. Sir, to ensure that the mosques are properly managed and run, MUIS has actively assisted the Mosque Management Committees in their activities. For example, courses on mosque management and accounting were conducted for members of Mosque Management Committees as well as Mosque Building Committees. More of such courses will be conducted in future for the benefit of the new Mosque Management Committees. Officials in the Finance Section of the MUIS Secretariat often assist and advise members of the Mosque Management Committees and Mosque Building Committees on keeping proper records of monies collected and spent by them. MUIS Secretariat staff also hold frequent dialogue sessions with members of these Committees to help resolve their problems, if any, with them. MUIS officials attend important meetings of the Mosque Management Committees and Mosque Building Committees to give advice whenever needed.

Then the hon. Member for Kaki Bukit asked whether MUIS could get bigger allocations of land from the HDB for the purpose of building mosques. If I recall his speech, Sir, the Member for Kaki Bukit has rightly pointed out that there is a scarcity of land in the Republic. This being so, I am sure he will agree with me that it would be a better suggestion to have more storeys (funds permitting, that is) to the new mosques to be built than to ask for a bigger piece of land for each mosque.

As regards false doctrines, I think I have given the answer to a similar question raised by the Member for Pasir Panjang. The Member for Kaki Bukit went on to discuss undesirable publications. Sir, whenever a complaint about undesirable publication is received by MUIS, a thorough investigation is carried out to determine whether it is genuine. If it is substantiated, MUIS will then inform the Ministry of Culture to ban the publication. This is the standard practice and understanding between MUIS and the Ministry of Culture.

On films and programmes shown on TV, a very well known Muslim educationist, himself a devout Muslim, sits on the Board of the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation. One of the duties of the Board is to ensure, among other things, that films shown on TV are not morally unacceptable to the Muslims. Apart from these precautionary measures, Sir, I am sure SBC would also welcome suggestions and positive criticisms from Muslim viewers with a view to improving our TV programmes.

The next point raised by the Member for Kaki Bukit was on void deck or shop unit for religious classes. MUIS will lend every assistance to religious organizations to find suitable premises to conduct religious classes. It will explore with HDB and other agencies the feasibility of tapping facilities in public housing estates for the running of religious classes.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

6.50 p.m.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Lastly, the Member for Kaki Bukit, in rushing through his speech because time was catching up, wanted to know whether surpluses from the Fitrah could be channelled to an Educational Fund. Unfortunately, the proposal of the Member for Kaki Bukit that an educational foundation fund be established from surpluses of Fitrah collected from Muslims, is not allowed under Muslim law. This does not come from me. It comes from the Mufti. I think I have answered all the points raised by the Member for Kaki Bukit.

I shall now turn to the point raised by the Member for Telok Blangah. He has raised two points. On the administration of mosques on which I have answered in fairly great detail in my reply to the Member for Kaki Bukit, I would like to assure the hon. Member for Telok Blangah that MUIS will do its best to help the Mosque Management Committees as well as the Mosque Building Committees in the management of their affairs.

The next point raised by the Member for Telok Blangah was on the Haj. I would like to thank the hon. Member for Telok Blangah for the favourable report on the arrangements made by MUIS for the pilgrims during their Haj. He did not base this on rumour because he went for the Haj himself last year. I know it. Last year was the first time that MUIS included a doctor in its nursing welfare team to look after the pilgrims. In addition to the Medical Officer, there were four Nursing Officers and four Welfare Officers.

Sir, the Holy Cities of Makkah and Medina are acutely congested during the Haj period. Pilgrims from all over the world face the common problem of accommodation. For this year's pilgrimage, MUIS has negotiated with a pilgrim broker in Makkah for about 800 MUIS-registered Singapore pilgrims to be accommodated in two or three lodging houses adjacent to one another. This will enable the Nursing and Welfare Officers to attend to Singapore pilgrims who have health problems without unnecessary delay. However, there may be some Singapore pilgrims who still prefer to stay with pilgrim brokers of their own choice in Makkah and Medina. These pilgrims will have to accept that they may not be v!sited by the Nursing and Welfare Officers as often as they would like if the lodging houses in which they are accommodated are scattered and some distance away from the main group.

For this year's pilgrims, MUIS is also looking into the feasibility of having at least one official to stay back to look after the pilgrims who fall sick and have to remain in Jeddah to recuperate. The presence of the official will be a comfort to the pilgrims as well as their anxious relatives in Singapore.

Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe: Sir, on behalf of my colleagues who spoke on this amendment, I would like to thank the Minister for his answers. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead VB-03 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, in moving this amendment, allow me, first of all, to highlight the case of a couple who had contracted a customary marriage in Malaysia and wanted to register their marriage in Singapore. At the time of their customary marriage, the couple were Malaysian citizens and were domiciled in Malaysia. The marriage was not registered in Malaysia. Subsequently, the man became a Singapore citizen. He approached the Commissioner for Employment to approve the marriage, and it was approved. The couple then called at the Registry of Civil Marriages to register their marriage. They were asked whether they had gone through a customary marriage and the answer was yes. They were then asked to make a statutory declaration stating that they had gone through a customary marriage. The officer at the Registry even helped them to fill in the statutory declaration and they were asked to supply photographs showing evidence of their customary marriage. This they did in good faith. They were all along led to believe that their marriage would be registered eventually. Everything went on fine until they received a letter from the Registrar informing them that there was no provision in the law to register a marriage after the parties concerned had gone through the customary marriage. This has disappointed the couple. 7.00 p.m.

If they were not allowed to register their marriage, in the first place they should be told right from the beginning. Instead they were told to do all the necessary formalities leading them to believe that the registration of their marriage would be in order. The couple was also told that the marriage could only be put on record for administrative purposes. The couple complained that there would not be any proof of their marriage if the marriage is just to be put on record for administrative purposes. For example, if they wanted to apply for a flat or to register their child in school, they will not be able to prove that their marriage is legal.

Sir, there are two points here. (1) Why were the couple misled in the first place as to the intention of the Registrar of Marriages? They had gone there for a legitimate purpose but were led up the garden path by officials of the Registry. Quite unwittingly, they did things which only serve to confirm that the registration of their marriage could not be proceeded with.

(2) Technically, they did not commit any offence as they were both domiciled in another country. It was only when the man became a Singapore citizen that he sought to put things right, at least in the eyes of the law of the country of which he is now a citizen. In such an instance, if the marriage cannot be registered, can the Registry of Marriages not furnish the couple with a statement to the effect that the marriage would be recognized by the Government, at least for administrative purposes?

The next matter on the Registry of Marriages that I want to raise concerns the notice that the couple must give in order to have the marriage solemnized at the Registry. Under the law, a 21 -day period is required. Another aspect of the law is that a civil marriage must take place before a customary marriage. In recent times, there have been reports in the newspapers of cases of couples going through the customary marriage first before the civil marriage, or of couples coming to the Registry of Marriages and wanting to have the marriage solemnized before the 21 -day period is up. There are good reasons for this and I hope the Hon. Minister could take this occasion to explain once again for the benefit of the many people who would be getting married.

Hon. Members will certainly agree with me when I say that getting married is a serious affair. However, Sir, there are not many Members in this House who could recount from first-hand experience. But I am a bit confused about the atmosphere at the present Registry of Civil Marriages, whether it is intended to be a serious thing or whether it is intended to be comical. For one thing, the Registry of Civil Marriages has for many years been located in a ram- shackle building. It is a tumbledown house with rickety staircases and squeaky floor-boards. It is, to say the least, a place which is not very conducive to solemnizing a marriage. Some have even called the place a joke. Sir, I think it is a shame.

Perhaps the staff there also contribute to the grim atmosphere of the place. Sir, one is treated with the same officiousness at the Registry of Civil Marriages as that accorded in some other Government departments like applying for HDB flat or applying for a passport or applying for a dog licence. Sir, the Registry or the Ministry must take cognizance of the fact that the seriousness of solemnizing a marriage must be counter-balanced at least to some extent by the fact that this is a couple's happiest occasion, if not the most important occasion in life for man and woman. Lest I be mistaken, it is not my intention to suggest that the Registry of Marriages be turned into a circus or carnival but certainly it is an occasion more than merely paying $14, getting a receipt for it and told to come back 21 days later. Sir, couples even say that they are embarrassed when they go to the Registry because when you tell them you are there to get married, the first question they ask you is: "Have both of you ever been married?"

Sir, I cannot say more about the clerk who is seated at an old table in one corner who hands to all applicants an invitation to attend family planning talks except that I feel it is not very appropriate an occasion to remind a couple of such a thing. Surely we have enough of that already and there is no need to resort to what looks like a last minute attempt by the Family Planning Board to get the message through. Sir, this only reminds me of the trailers in the cinema that are inserted just before the main feature commences. The sober classical music that is played over the loud-speakers at the Registry belies the fact that it is a happy occasion and not one of grief. Perhaps for some who are being hauled quite reluctantly to the altar by their spouses, that may be so. But I am sure for many it is a happy occasion and the Registry of Civil Marriages should strive to make it a memorable one. Perhaps a smile here and there on the part of the staff could help to defrost the chilly atmosphere that is prevailing there.

Sir, I am glad to read that a new building is being put up and I hope the Hon. Minister can take this opportunity to supply us with more details, and I hope that in the new building things would be quite different.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Affairs (Mr Teo Chong Tee): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am replying on behalf of my Minister. In moving his amendment, we thought that the hon. Member would like to recount his recent experience to Members of this House. In fact, I am quite pleased that the hon. Member has brought up a few issues and I have the facts here to relay to him and to hon. Members of this House.

Sir, the hon. Member for Alexandra has cited the case of a couple who, having contracted a customary marriage in Malaysia, wants to register their marriage in Singapore. At the time of marriage, the couple were both Malaysian citizens and were domiciled in Malaysia. The Women's Charter does not provide for the registration of a customary marriage contracted outside Singapore if neither party was domiciled in Singapore at the time of marriage. It was therefore not possible for the Registrar of Marriages to register the customary marriage of the couple in question, notwithstanding that subsequently the man acquired Singapore citizenship.

Sir, I know that Government departments and public agencies sometimes require the production of documentary evidence of marital status, for example, when applying to rent or purchase an HDB flat or when registering a child in a school. The Registrar of Marriages will assist such couples by issuing them with a letter which will state that since the law of the country of domicile recognizes their marriage, they may be considered to be validly married. However, the Registrar can only issue them with such a letter after he has satisfied himself that they did, in fact, go through a customary marriage as claimed. Acceptable evidence would include their children's birth certificates, wedding photographs and a statutory declaration that they had undergone a customary marriage. The couple can produce the letter from the Registrar of Marriages as proof of their marital status when they visit the HDB, the Ministry of Education or other public agencies.

Sir, in the case cited by the hon. Member for Alexandra, the staff of the Registry of Marriages had told the husband at the outset that his customary marriage could not be registered in Singapore. When the husband asked in what way the Registry could assist him, the Registrar advised him to produce acceptable evidence of his customary marriage to enable the Registrar to issue him a letter, the contents of which I have just mentioned. This the husband did and the Registrar thereupon issued him a letter. I have a copy of the letter here which was issued to the couple.

The hon. Member also wants to know what is the rationale for the 21 days set for one's marriage to be solemnized. It is provided under the Women's Charter that any person deciding to marry in Singapore must give to the Registrar a notice in the prescribed form. The Registrar must under the law post a copy of this notice up in a conspicuous place in his office for 21 days. The 21 -day period is to enable anyone having any valid reasons to object to the marriage to do so in writing to the Registrar. On expiry of this 21-day period, if there is no valid objection received by the Registrar, the marriage may then be solemnized and registered. Such solemnization must take place within three months from the date of notice.

Sir, the hon. Member also asked what is the rationale for the solemnization of a civil marriage before a customary marriage. Before the enactment of the Women's Charter, a couple who had gone through a customary marriage were recognized and accepted by society as husband and wife. The customary marriage, however, had no legal status. It was not in the interest of women that customary marriages without civil marriages should continue to be allowed as the men could take more than one wife and dissolve their marriage with relative ease. It was to protect the interest of women that the Women's Charter was brought into operation in 1961.

Under the Women's Charter, a marriage, except a Muslim marriage, is valid only if it has been solemnized before the Registrar of Marriages or a person licensed to solemnize marriages. Couples who had their marriages solemnized before the Registrar of Marriages or before a person licensed to solemnize marriages may undergo customary marriage ceremonies after their civil marriage if they so desire. However, such customary marriages have no legal standing. Couples marrying under customary rites today without first obtaining a marriage certificate from the Registrar of Marriages or from a person authorized to solemnize marriages are committing an offence under the Women's Charter. This offence carries with it a penalty of imprisonment for a period up to three years or a fine of up to $5,000. 7.15 p.m.

As regards the proposed Registry of Marriages, I am pleased to enlighten the hon. Member as well as hon. Members of the House some of the new facilities which will be available at the new Registries of Marriages at Fort Canning Park. The project was approved by the Committee on Project Evaluation on 6th July 1981, The total project cost is $3.48 million, of which $3.38 million will be used to pay for building works and $100,000 for furniture and equipment. The new Registry will be located amidst landscaped gardens where couples after their solemnization ceremony can take photographs in a garden setting. Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Alexandra has missed his chance.

The Registry will be provided with sound equipment for piped-in music and for paging members of the public. The facilities that will be provided also are: two air-conditioned and carpeted solemnization rooms for the Registry of Civil Marriages and a large air-conditioned and carpeted bersanding room for the Registry of Muslim Marriages. Presently there is only one solemnization room in the present Registry. There will be bigger rooms for the two Registrars. There will be comfortable and attractive sofas which will be placed in the waiting areas for members of the public. There will be four make-up rooms, two in each Registry, one for the bride and one for the groom. This is not provided in the existing Registry. There will also be a prayer room for the staff in the Registry of Muslim Marriages. A ramp will be provided also for the car park to the ground floor of the building for the disabled. A small cafeteria in the back portion of the building will also be provided. There will be 21 car park lots and three bus bays for visitors to the Registries of Marriages. Construction work for the new registries began on 15th December 1981, and is expected to be completed by December 1982.

In addition to this, Sir, perhaps the hon. Member for Alexandra as well as hon. Members of the House are also interested to know that we are setting up a Branch Registry for civil marriages at the Chinese Garden in Jurong. Work has already started and operation will start sometime in June this year. The Branch Registry of Marriages, measuring approximately 95.2 square metres, will occupy the entire first floor of the Stone Boat in the Chinese Garden. There will be a solemnization room, a waiting room and a small administrative office. It will be fully air-conditioned and carpeted. The solemnization room will have curtains all round and will be appropriately furnished. The windows of the waiting room will be panelled with tinted glass to give vantage views of the beautiful landscape outside. It will be provided with comfortable and attractive sofas. Again, the hon. Member for Alexandra has missed his chance. The project was approved by the Development Planning Sub-Committee on 16th February 1982. The total project cost is $64,000 made up of renovation works and air-conditioning for the entire area and also for furniture and equipment. As I said just now, the operation will begin in June 1982. However, work has already started and it will be completed in May 1982.

As regards the hon. Member's point raised just now that the first question that the staff at the Registry of Marriages ask is whether the couple have ever been married. This is a normal question to make sure that the couple have, in fact, not been married before so that proper administrative work can be done.

An hon. Member: Safety device.

Mr Teo Chong Tee: Yes, my colleague here said it is a safety device, to make sure that nothing goes wrong. So with all these facilities being planned, I hope that members of the public, people who are getting married, will be able to enjoy better facilities. If they decide to get married after the building has been completed, they will be able to enjoy all these new facilities. Sir, I think I have answered most of the points raised and I hope the answers I have given will satisfy the Member for Alexandra.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: Sir, I am glad that the hon. Parliamentary Secretary recognizes that in moving this amendment I have no further vested interest in the matter. I am appreciative of his brief and concise reply, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Mr Jeyaretnam, Amendment (5).

Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, in view of the limited time I do not propose to take up all the ten minutes on this, my first Amendment No. (5). Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead VC-02 of the Main Estimates.

This is for Services for the Aged, Vagrant and other Destitutes. The House has already heard about the need for bedridden patients and that there are at the moment only a few homes that are able to take non-ambulant bedridden patients, notably among them the Jalan Payoh Lai Home for the Aged Sick and the Sree Narayana Mission Home for the Aged. The Minister in reply said that there are plans to provide another 565 beds. He does not tell us when these 565 beds will be available. Does he have any idea as to how many are on the waiting list for beds in these homes for non-ambulant bedridden patients? I understand that there is a long waiting list and the Payoh Lai Home for the Aged Sick has a waiting list which will absorb the new unit or hall when that is built.

Apart from that, Sir, may I also say something about the people who are not too ill to be kept at Woodbridge Hospital but are not safe enough to be accommodated back into their family homes. I am told that there is a need for what are known as half-way homes. In my own constituency, the case of a patient who had been discharged from Woodbridge Hospital was brought to my attention. She came back to live with her brother who has a family and a son of about a year or 18 months. He found that this sister of his who had been discharged tended to get violent at times and he was very worried about the safety of his 18-month old boy. He therefore approached me for assistance and I had to write to the Hospital. I think they said they would take her back again, I do not know for how long. There is a need for a home for persons like her. I hope something is done to meet this situation.

The other thing is about the assistance given to these Homes for the Aged and the Aged Sick. I understand from the matron of one of these Homes that the PUB services are charged at commercial rates. She tells me that they have appealed again and again for these rates to be put on the domestic rate. This has been refused. I do not know why it is not possible to give them some help with PUB charges. I hope the Minister would perhaps lend his assistance to try and get a cheaper rate for these homes. That would be some practical help to them.

The other matter springs from the inadequate provision of beds for non-ambulant patients. A number of them have to be kept in the homes of their children or their relatives and cared for. If you have got a couple working and they have a non-ambulant aged parent or grandparent living with them, they need some assistance. Is there any plan that the Ministry has at the moment to provide what are known as supportive services for children of families who are looking after the aged sick in their own homes? They need some help. Sir, no amount of teaching of Confucian ethics and filial piety is going to help. A little bit of practical help goes a long way. I would ask the Minister, at this time when there is, I am told, an acute shortage of beds for non-ambulant patients, to consider providing some supportive services for children of families who have bedridden people staying with them.

The House was told yesterday about the Chronic Sick Unit at Trafalgar Home, and the Minister said there are enough beds there. I was told by this matron that she has had to take 10 patients from this Chronic Sick Unit at Trafalgar Home because they were unable to take them, and in the last two weeks she has already had five requests from this Chronic Sick Unit to take patients into her Home when her own home is already crowded.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, first, I would like to answer the Member for Anson as to the waiting list for admission to the existing three Homes for the Aged Sick.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Bedridden.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Bedridden, yes. First of all, Sir, the Home for the Aged Sick at Jalan Payoh Lai. It has a capacity of 144. The number of residents as at December 1981 was 138. The Sree Narayana Mission Home for the Aged Sick at Canberra Road in Sembawang has a capacity of 100. The number of residents as at December 1981 was 82. And Villa Francis at No. 9 Mandai Estate has a capacity for 150. The number of residents as at December 1981 was 124.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Waiting list.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Waiting list? Sir, there is no waiting list. There are vacancies. Maybe I would like to join my colleague, the Minister for Health when he was debating on the Woodbridge Hospital, in asking if the Member for Anson would care to apply for admission to any one of these Homes. He can get a place there.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Why are you then providing another 565 beds?

Dr Ahmad Mattar: We are anticipating the number of aged 60-year-olds by the turn of the century, by the mid-1980's and by 1990. We plan ahead.

The second issue raised by the Member for Anson was to appeal for public utilities consumed at voluntary homes to be charged domestic rates instead of commercial rates. This matter has been referred to my Ministry time and again. The matter has been taken up with the Public Utilities Board. The Board has replied that it is prepared to apply the Domestic Water Tariff and the Domestic Electricity Tariff to voluntary organizations, charity Homes and voluntary welfare Homes which are used exclusively for residential purposes for the aged, aged sick, orphans, handicapped and delinquents. 7.30 p.m.

However, these Homes will have to undertake, at their own expense if necessary, all the work connected with the installation of separate electricity and water meters for the portion of premises not used for residential purposes. This decision should go a long way to reduce the recurrent cost on utilities. So the PUB has been very considerate and I think my colleague, the Minister for Trade and Industry, who is in charge of PUB, and who is known to be a very considerate and sympathetic person, has done his best to accommodate the wishes of such Homes.

The last point raised by the Member for Anson was on the chronic sick.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Supportive services.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Supportive services. I knew he did not have time to take it up yesterday. But nevertheless, I will reply on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health. Sir, my Ministry is aware of the problem brought up to this House by the Member for Anson, and is presently considering a proposal in conjunction with the Ministry of Health to renovate a total of 25 Trafalgar Huts and the vacated Lorong Buang Kok Government School situated next to the Trafalgar Hospital to house this group of persons. Fifteen of the 25 huts had already been renovated at a cost of $103,300 by the Ministry of Health. The renovations involved the installation of heat-resistant ceilings, the replacement of the electrical wiring system and general repainting of the premises. When completed, these Huts are expected to house about 400 such persons. A paper on this proposal including staff requirements had been sent to the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, there are about 800 destitute patients in the Woodbridge Hospital who do not require close medical treatment. However, because they have no relatives to discharge to, they are allowed to continue staying in the Hospital. It was agreed at a meeting between the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Social Affairs that the former is primarily responsible for the treatment of sick cases that can be cured. In this case, there is no permanent cure for the mentally ill persons, and it would be more cost-effective for them to be looked after by the Ministry of Social Affairs.

The Trafalgar Huts proposal will cater for 400 such persons. The balance 400 will remain with the Ministry of Health until such time suitable premises can be found to house them. So the Government is looking into supportive services for such category of patients.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I think the Minister has missed my last point. The supportive services that he talks about are the halfway homes, is it not? I am talking of supportive services for the aged sick, chronic sick, those being looked after by their children or relatives in their own homes - whether there is any nursing care for them, i.e. nurses visiting them to give them help with the nursing of these patients.

The Chairman: Mr Goh, I think, is more appropriate to deal with the Ministry of Health.

The Minister for Health and Second Minister of Defence (Mr Goh Chok Tong): Sir, perhaps I could answer the point. It concerns my Ministry more than the Ministry of Social Affairs. There is a Home Nursing Foundation where about 60 nurses are available to attend to the needs of non-ambulant aged parents who are in the circumstances described by the Member for Anson. The Home Nursing Service is available to people who belong to this group where their own children are unable to look after them for personal reasons.

I am surprised to hear that some 10 applications have been made by the Trafalgar Hospital to the matron of a certain home. Either my official has misin- formed me or the Member for Anson has been misled by the matron, so I will be happy to have the facts from the Member for Anson, because it could be a case of my being misinformed or the Member being misled.

May I say that Trafalgar Home or otherwise known as Trafalgar Hospital is a hospital for leprosy patients. Those who have recovered, what you call "burnt-out" cases, but have no place to go back to are put into Trafalgar huts. So I will be surprised that patients of this category from Trafalgar Hospital -

Mr Jeyaretnam: Chronic Sick Unit.

Mr Goh Chok Tong: The chronic sick in Trafalgar Hospital belong mainly to this category. I will be surprised that they would apply to the Home for the Aged at Jalan Payoh Lai but, nevertheless, it is a matter which I think we can sort out when we have the full facts.

I would also assure the Member for Anson that no patient from Woodbridge would be asked to go back to their home unless they are certified by the doctors that it is safe to do so. Sometimes they suffer from relapse and that is because they do not take the drugs which are prescribed to them. The reason for getting the patients to go back to the home environment is, in fact, to help the patients to overcome their mental difficulties. Home environment is all-important to help the mental patients recover from their mental illnesses and if you were to build half-way house it might be defeating the very basis of our treatment which is to get the patients to go back to the home environment where parents, brothers and sisters can help them adjust to society. So I do not think at this stage a half-way house in the treatment of these patients is justifiable.

The Chairman: Dr Ahmad Mattar, do you want to reply again?

Dr Ahmad Mattar: I think my colleague, the Minister for Health, has more than adequately replied to the Member for Anson. I have nothing more to add.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead VC-03 of the Main Estimates.

This is a provision for the physically and mentally disabled persons. I am, in the time that is allotted to me, going to confine myself to the education of the disabled and mentally or physically disabled children.

Sir, I have it, on the authority of a social worker who knows what he is talking about, that Singapore is the least progressive when it comes to providing education for disabled children, whatever it may be in other fields. There is the instance of the Singapore School for the Deaf, for which there was some publicity, I think, at the beginning of this year. This school has an enrolment of about 500 and I am told that the recommended ratio, internationally, of trained staff to students is 1:8 and this has been adopted in most countries. We are talking about trained staff, to teach children who are deaf. On this ratio, the School needs about 60 teachers to look after these 500 students who are enrolled at the School. I am told that at the moment they have only 22 teachers supplied by the Ministry of Education and the Singapore Association for the Deaf employs another 17 who are untrained and are paid very low salaries because the Association is short of funds.

Would the Minister say whether any steps will be taken to see that schools like this, the Singapore School for the Deaf, and other schools which are catering to disabled children, are provided with adequate trained staff? After all, Sir, the parents of these children pay tax like any other parents, and why should their children be denied the education? They can be made useful citizens of our country if they are rehabilitated and given the proper education. Why should they be denied when they should perhaps be given more attention than others because of their disability?

That is about the staff. There is another matter, and that is the equipment. Again, taking the Singapore School for the Deaf, I understand that of the 19 classrooms only two are fitted with auditory equipment, and they need this equipment for the proper teaching of the children. Why is it not possible to fit all these 19 classrooms with the auditory equipment? I ask, Sir, that the Government rethinks its policies on providing education for disabled children, either physical or mental. Last year was the Year of the Disabled. I do not know what was done for the children last year. But perhaps we can start doing something now.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, as I have said in my reply earlier on to the Member for Kampong Kembangan, it is the responsibility of my Ministry to care for the under-privileged and handicapped, and this includes the category of disabled persons the Member for Anson has talked about.

Sir, for the information of the Member for Anson and for the information of this House, the Singapore Council of Social Service, which is under my Ministry, has, on behalf of the voluntary organizations serving disabled persons, submitted a memorandum to the Ministry of Education on the need for greater Government involvement in the provision of special education for the disabled. I believe discussion has been held between my colleague, the Hon. Minister of State of Education, with the persons concerned, and things are being considered now. What the Member for Anson has suggested - that we look into the equipment and teacher to student ratio - all these have been taken into account in this memorandum which was submitted by the SCSS on behalf of organizations serving disabled persons.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I would withdraw my amendment, Sir.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment (7), Mr Jeyaretnam. May I remind you that we have about five minutes to go before guillotine time.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I am aware of that, Sir. I would not go beyond that.

The last amendment, Sir, is a vote for Public Assistance. I do not want to say too much on this. The Minister has announced the recent increases. I hope he will be able to answer now the question that I put to him and he was not able to answer by how much the overall allowance was reduced when the first revision was made. He conceded that there was a downward revision but he was unable to tell us how much.

The Chairman: Would you move your amendment first? 7.45 p.m.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Yes, Sir. I beg to move, Sir,

That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead VC-04 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, in a social survey on Singapore in 1953-54, it was estimated that a family of four needed a sum of at least $102 to keep body and soul together. In 1973, in a thesis submitted for a Master's degree, this sum was estimated to be not less than $240.11, just for a family of four to keep themselves alive. Now in 1982, we are told that the Ministry has graciously agreed to increase this sum to $170. This is still less by $70 of what was thought to be the barest minimum in 1973. I say, Sir, that our public assistance rates are a mockery.

The Hon. Minister says he is very angry because of what I had said to the editor of the New York Times. I would suggest to the Minister that, instead of spluttering with rage, he should perhaps sit down and calmly think about it. I am telling him that a family who is paid a public assistance of $170 for a family of four must be starving. There must be a number of days when they probably go hungry. It is those people that I am talking about. I would suggest that the Minister tries living on $170 for a month, and then tell us how many days he would have to go starving.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, if I may be permitted to interrupt.

The Chairman: Are you prepared to give way, Mr Jeyaretnam? We have only three minutes to go if you want a reply.

Mr Jeyaretnam: May I just finish what I want to say, Sir?

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr Jeyaretnam: The other point is about the figure of 5,000. Again, I would commend to the Hon. Minister that he sit down calmly and do a bit of arithmetic. If he adds the number of persons who are detained under the criminal law, under the Internal Security Act, under the Misuse of Drugs Act and the Immigration Act, he will get a figure of 4,400. What are we quibbling about?

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Sir, I think the Member for Anson is in the habit of asking this question in the very last minute available. I have invited him to submit a Question for Oral Answer. He has not done so. He seems to choose the dying minutes of the debate to ask this question. I invite him once again to submit a Question for Oral Answer and I will give him a lengthy reply.

With your permission, Sir, I do not think I would like to reply to the Member's question. I would like to invite him once again to submit a Question for Oral Answer.

Mr Jeyaretnam: What is wrong with answering now?

The Chairman: Would you like to withdraw the amendment, Mr Jeyaretnam?

Mr Jeyaretnam: No, Sir.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived. 7.48 p.m.

The Chairman: I do not think we have time to go on to Amendment No. (8).

The Guillotine time for Head V being 7.50 p.m., the following amendment was not proceeded with:

Encik Abbas Abu Amin:

Encik Saidi Haji Shariff:

(8) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead VD-01 of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $29,341,170 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $8,875,700 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

The Chairman: With that, we have disposed of all the amendments standing on the Order Paper Supplement. I shall now deal with the remaining heads of expen- diture in respect of which no amendment stands on the Order Paper Supplement. In respect of the Main Estimates, they are Heads B, C, D, E, F, G, H and X.

I propose to take those heads of expenditure en bloc.

Question, "That the sums stated for those heads of expenditure which appear in the last column of the Schedule of Estimated Expenditure under the Main Estimates on page 19 of Paper Cmd. 6 of 1982 stand part of the Main Estimates," put, and agreed to.

The Chairman: In respect of the Development Estimates, they are Heads E and F. I propose to take those heads of expenditure en bloc.

Question, "That the sums stated for those heads of expenditure which appear in the last column of the Schedule of Estimated Expenditure under the Development Estimates on page 20 of Paper Cmd. 6 of 1982 stand part of the Development Estimates," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the sum of $6,184,014,240 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1982 to 31st March, 1983, contained in Paper Cmd. 6 of 1982," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the sum of $6,849,448,000 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Develop- ment Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1982 to 31st March, 1983, contained in Paper Cmd.6 of 1982," put, and agreed to.

Resolutions to be reported.

Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

The Minister for Trade and Industry (Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply have come to certain resolutions.

First Resolution reported -

"That the sum of $6,184,014,240 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1982 to 31st March, 1983, contained in Paper Cmd. 6 of 1982."

Second Resolution reported -

"That the sum of $6,849,448,000 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1982 to 31st March, 1983, contained in Paper Cmd. 6 of 1982."

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That Parliament doth agree with the Committee on the said resolutions."

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolutions accordingly agreed to.