COMMITTEE OF SELECTION (Appointment of Members)

The Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr S. Dhanabalan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Motion* standing in my name, and appearing as item 2 on the Order Paper.

*The Motion reads as follows:--

That this Parliament, in accordance with paragraph (1) of Standing Order 95, appoints the following as members of the Committee of Selection:-- Mr Chua Sian Chin Mr S. Dhanabalan Mr Lee Yiok Seng Mr Lim Boon Heng Encik Sidek bin Saniff Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam Dr Tay Eng Soon.

Sir, this Motion is self-explanatory. The Members of the Committee of Selection will be the same as in the last Session. Nothing has happened since the last Session to warrant any change.

Question proposed.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to move an amendment to this motion. Sir, I beg to move,

That the Motion, standing in the name of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, be amended by deleting the name "Mr Chua Sian Chin" appearing therein, and substituting therefor the name "Mr Chiam See Tong".

Mr Speaker, Sir, as the Minister said, this Motion seeks to reappoint the members of the Committee of Selection, who served on the Committee in the last Session of this Parliament, for this current Session. I have had occasion, more than once, to refer to the work of the Committees of this House and also to the lack of powers given to the Committees, and to the absence of adequate Committees to discharge the functions and responsibilities of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, Sir, was it last year, I advocated the creation of several new committees, the departmental committees, so that Parliament may perform its proper functions as a watchdog on the Executive's actions. They supervise the powers given to the Executive by this House, and to see that the Executive is kept within the bounds of Parliament's mandate. I have said that the work of the Committees is, in one sense, far more important than even the meetings in this House because it is in Committee meetings that we get down to the nitty-gritty of Government actions. Parliament, by the very nature of the debate and proceedings, cannot find the time to get down to the details of Government's actions and powers. It is in the Committees.

Mr Speaker, Sir, you will find that in the American House of Congress, the committees are very powerful. They perform the most important task of seeing that the President and his various Government departments are kept within bounds. The role of the committees in the American style is greater than the role played by committees in the United Kingdom House of Commons. But even there, as I explained last year, there was reform made and departmental committees were appointed.

Sir, I am aware of the provision in the Standing Orders and I have no doubt that Members of this House are aware of that provision, that the Committees of this House shall reflect, as far as possible, the composition of the House. After I came into this House in October 1981, I complained of the absence of the Opposition Member on any of the Committees of this House, from 1982 to the end of 1984. I suppose in an attempt to shut us down, shut me down, at the First Session of this Parliament, the Committee of Selection proceeded to appoint the two Opposition Members to two Committees. But what Committees were they appointed to? The Member for Potong Pasir was appointed to the Committee on Standing Orders. This Committee virtually, Mr Speaker, Sir, as far as I know, has really nothing very much to do except if and when questions on Standing Orders are referred to it. I had the great honour and privilege of serving on the House Committee to attend to the comforts of all the Members of this House. And I am afraid that I have not done anything about the comforts of Members. I have failed abysmally in that duty of looking after the comforts of the Members of this House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the main function and purpose of Parliament does not lie in looking after the comforts of its Members. May I repeat again, at the risk of repetition, that the main function and purpose of Parliament is to see that the Executive is kept within bounds of the mandate of this Parliament. We have two Committees in this House which go to some extent to do this. We have the Public Accounts Committee which scrutinizes all the accounts of the Government, the Ministries, the departments. And we have also the Estimates Committee which looks into the expenditure by the Government of the taxpayers' monies. These two Committees, as I said, to some extent, serve to discharge the functions of this House. But has the Opposition found a place in any of these Committees? Why not? It boils down, Mr Speaker, Sir, in the last resort to whether this House believes in a full-blooded democracy or whether it believes in a wayang kulit democracy, a shadow democracy, a sham democracy, where the Opposition Members of Parliament are merely put there on show, so that the world at large may be told, "Oh, yes, we've got two Opposition Members of Parliament." And they go away saying, "Oh, Singapore is a great democracy."

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have several times spoken of the lip-service paid by this Government, and particularly by the Prime Minister, to the need for Opposition in Parliament. I heard this in the first general elections that I contested in 1972, and I have heard it since then: lip-service to the need for an Opposition, to the need for a democratic institution of Government. You only get that, Members, if Parliament consists of a two-party or three-party Chamber where the views of the people who are opposed to the government may be heard, where they may make their criticisms, where they may make their contributions for the welfare of the State. As I said, we have heard this lip-service time and time again, lip-service. But the truth emerged when finally an Opposition Member made his way into this House in the by-election in October 1981. Then we saw the Prime Minister in his true colours. The Prime Minister was not really interested in an Opposition. Neither was the Government. They were prepared, so long as they could keep the Opposition out, to pay lip-service to the idea of an Opposition. The idea was the great thing, not it becoming a reality in this place. Since then, of course, every attempt has been made not to give the Opposition its role in Parliament and outside Parliament. And I say that this attempt inside Parliament not to give the Opposition a role consists of keeping it out, keeping the Opposition out of the Committees which really serve to discharge the functions and role of Parliament.

The Committee of Selection, Mr Speaker, Sir, as you are well aware, appoints the other Committees of this House. I have no doubt that when the other Committees are appointed, I shall find myself in the glorified position of being a member to look after the comforts of Members, and I suppose my colleague, the Member for Potong Pasir, will be told, "You can deal with the Standing Orders whenever we want to look at that. Otherwise, thank you very much for your services and contributions."

I would urge this Government that if it really believes in democracy, in the fact of a Parliament with an Opposition in it, then I say, you should show your sincerity in this belief by allowing the Opposition its full role in this House, and that is, by appointing it to the Committees that really matter. It is for that purpose, Mr Speaker, Sir, and it is to that end, I have proposed that the motion be amended by replacing Mr Chua Sian Chin with Mr Chiam See Tong from the Opposition. That will demonstrate the sincerity of the Government. That will tell the people of Singapore that at last this Government is determined, and I say that again, is determined to allow democracy to take its roots in Singapore and to flourish, and that it will go along to help that process. And to help that process, this Government will give the Opposition their proper role and function in that democracy.

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: It has been proposed as an amendment:

In line 4, to leave out "Mr Chua Sian Chin" and there to insert "Mr Chiam See Tong".

The Question is, "That the words proposed to be left out, be left out.".

Mr Jek Yeun Thong (Queenstown): Mr Speaker, Sir, I object to the amendment put forward by the Member for Anson. While I have every respect for the Member for Potong Pasir, though he may not earn so much money as a lawyer and therefore, by the definition of the Member for Whampoa, he may not be such a good lawyer, I have more respect for my friend, the Member for MacPherson.

The Member for MacPherson, as you all know, has been in this House for a very long time, and for that I have more confidence in him. He is like what the Chinese called the shi tu lau ma (the old horse who knows the way). But what we have in the Member for Potong Pasir is chuan tze ma (it is a crazy horse). It will lead us to a crash. So we have got to be very careful when making selections for the Committees, especially when this Committee is such an important one, as the Member for Anson has said. So we should not put Members there just because they are Opposition Members. We should put Members there to serve a purpose, to see that they can contribute, and I have every confidence that my friend, the Member for MacPherson who sits next to me, will have a very great contribution to make in this Committee.

I think the Member for Anson is putting too much importance in themselves. Just because they are not there, we have less democracy in the House or less democracy in the Committee. Can you make people believe that? It is incredible, is it not?

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, the proposed members of the Committee of Selection and the other Members of this House are fully aware of the responsibilities, privileges and duties of Parliament. I think we are all getting a little tired of the long and tedious speeches that we have to listen to on what we are supposed to do.

The Committee of Selection after its appointment will take various considerations into account in appointing the various Committees. One consideration which it cannot avoid taking note of is that two does not equal 77. That must be a consideration in the appointment of the various Committees.

Mr Chiam See Tong: There will be more grouses.

Mr Dhanabalan: Sir, the Member for Anson, together with his colleague, cannot demand that they get equal representation in this Parliament. As I said, two does not equal 77. I was not aware, Mr Speaker, Sir, that the two of them were appointed by the PAP in order to give democracy a good name in Singapore. I want to very quickly tell the people of Singapore that we are not responsible for their appointment here.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I move that this House reject the amendment and we get on with the main motion.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, may I have a clarification from the Leader of the House, provided he knows what he has said.

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. I think the word "clarification" has been abused in this House. Standing Orders are very clear. If the Member wants to clarify what he has said, he can clarify. He cannot ask me to clarify.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I can ask the Leader to clarify what he meant because it seems to me that the whole of what he has said is non sequitur. It is inconsequential. He says, "We cannot give them equal representation." No one is asking for equal representation. Then he goes on to say, "Two does not equal 77". But the Committee of Selection last year conceded that there was a place for the Opposition Members on the Committees, and we were appointed to two Committees. All I am saying is, this year would at least one of the Opposition Members be appointed to either the Estimates Committee or the Public Accounts Committee? So I do not understand the Leader.

Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, that is entirely for the Committee of Selection to decide.

Mr Speaker: The Question is, "That the words proposed to be left out, be left out." As many as are of the opinion, say "Aye".

Mr Jeyaretnam: Aye.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Aye.

Mr Speaker: To the contrary, say "No".

Other hon. Members: No.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I call for a Division, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Shall we ask for a show of hands?

Mr Jeyaretnam: All right.

Mr Speaker: It will be recorded: there are two "Ayes" and the rest "No".

Amendment accordingly negatived.

Original Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this Parliament, in accordance with paragraph (1) of Standing Order 95, appoints the following as members of the Committee of Selection:- Mr Chua Sian Chin Mr S. Dhanabalan Mr Lee Yiok Seng Mr Lim Boon Heng Encik Sidek bin Saniff Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam Dr Tay Eng Soon.