ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS ON HAWKERS

3.15 pm

Mr Goh Chee Wee (Boon Lay): ( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, over the past few months, the Ministry of the Environment has suddenly conducted very stringent inspections on hawker centres. They have also issued summonses and imposed fines on hawkers, thus causing grave concern and fear among the hawkers. So on this development, I hope that the Ministry of the Environment will give a proper clarification and explanation.

First of all, I would like to state that the Government Parliamentary Committee on the Environment has always been supportive of the Government's measures to enhance food hygiene. The GPC on the Environment has also repeatedly asked for appropriate actions to be taken against those food manufacturers, restaurants and stallholders for causing food poisoning. But I feel that the recent actions of the Ministry of the Environment against the hawkers have been excessive and overdone. These controls and regulations should, therefore, be reviewed.

The Ministry of the Environment's objective, of course, is to enhance food hygiene. This is generally understood and supported by the people. But how to enhance the level of food hygiene is a question of the method of implementation. Therefore, it is necessary to have consultations and discussions with the hawkers concerned. Because certain measures may appear feasible, in theory, but may, in reality, have problems with implementation.

As an illustration, the Ministry of the Environment officials say that hawkers are not allowed to handle food with their bare hands. They should use forks and spoons, or other utensils. But the preparation of certain food, such as popiah, cannot be done without using your hands. But the Ministry of the Environment officials say that if they want to handle food with their hands, then they must wear gloves. But the officials forget about the inconvenience caused by wearing gloves.

I have a few samples of gloves here [indicating]. So you can see that some of these gloves, made of plastic, are ill-fitting. Because they are made of plastic, there is no ventilation and a lot of heat is generated inside the gloves. Some gloves are too large. So if you wear an over-sized glove and you have to cut something, it will also cut away the fingers of the glove, and these will go into the popiah. This is a real problem.

Worse still, when they are wearing gloves and have to collect and change money, they must not forget to remove them. And if they change money with the gloves on, then it will be even more unhygienic. Even assuming that the hawker keeps on taking off and putting on the hand gloves, the gloves will become dirtier. And it is against the standard of hygiene. So this is a practical problem. Maybe the Ministry of the Environment should not insit that food handlers must wear gloves. Instead they should require that all food handlers should keep their hands clean. In other words, before they handle food, they must keep their hands clean, and they are not allowed to handle money or other things with their bare hands. Then, of course, they should not be allowed to dig their noses and ears. If they are found indulging in unhygienic practices, then should be fined. This is feasible.

Now, another headache to the hawkers is the Ministry of the Environment's ruling and insistence that all cooked food must be cooked within the premises of the hawker stalls. If food is pre-prepared at home and sold at the stall, then it is illegal. But we must not forget that certain kinds of food cannot be prepared inside the stall itself, because the space within the hawker stall is too small. This is another practical problem faced by the hawkers. The Ministry of the Environment is worried that the food prepared at home may not comply with the standard of hygiene. But I would like to ask the Minister whether he has got any facts to prove that food prepared at home has failed to live up to the standard and has caused food poisoning.

Another complaint by hawkers is that the hawker inspectors, in carrying out their duties, lack flexibility. They tend to make mountains out of molehills. They are discourteous and unreasonable. I hope that the Minister for the Environment will take note of this point and should give proper directives to the hawker inspectors that, in carrying out their duties, they should not adopt the attitude of the police catching the thief. They should not resort to the method of "ambushing" the hawkers. If hawkers should make any mistake, it is for the hawker inspector to tell them where they have gone wrong and show them the right way of doing things, in the first instance. And if such mistake is repeated, then the inspector can summon them.

I have received some complaints. A fruit seller has cut some fruits and displayed the cut pieces of fruits like apples, watermelon and papayas inside the glass case at the stall. On his right hand, there was no glove because he had to hold a knife. On his left hand, he had to hold the fruit, so he wore a glove. But one of the pieces on display was out of alignment, so he used the right hand, which had no glove on, to put it right. Then the hawker inspector who was, in "ambush" suddenly came out from somewhere and caught him using his bare hand to touch the watermelon. And so he was summoned. I think this is too much.

The hawkers feel that they cannot be blamed entirely for all the faults. For example, if rats and cockroaches are found in their stalls, then the hawkers will be severely penalised. But the hawkers said that these rats and cockroaches are not bred by them. Many of them come from the sewers nearby or the rubbish-heaps in the neighbourhood. But once they are found inside the stall by the hawker inspectors, then bad luck for the hawker concerned. So, now, what the hawkers fear most are the rats, cockroaches and the hawker inspectors! And if the rats, cockroaches and hawker inspectors do not visit the stall at the same time, there will be no problem. But if by coincidence all the three come together, then it is just bad luck, woe betide for the hawker.

In short, I hope that the Ministry of the Environment will take a dialogue and educational approach with the hawkers, in order to enhance food hygiene and the hygiene of the hawker centres. I am not saying that the Ministry of the Environment is not doing this. In fact, over the past two years, the Ministry of the Environment has indeed done some educational work and taken measures to enhance hygiene in the hawker centres. This, of course, needs our commendation, and the GPC on the Environment has always been supportive of these measures.

But I feel that education and explanation should be further enhanced and strengthened because, at the moment, there are still some hawkers who feel that they have been using the same method of operation, from one generation to another generation, without any problem whatsoever. Why should the Ministry of the Environment make mountains out of molehills and introduce so many new rules and regulations? To these hawkers, we should go through the method of education, to persuade them to change their old concept and methods, and to give up the old, bad habits. I must say that to those who have refused to listen to persuasion and education, and who do not care about public hygiene, and continue to sell unhygienic food, then apart from the educational method, the Ministry of the Environment has to take appropriate punitive measures.

I will give you a few more examples, Mr Speaker, Sir, to show that, up to now, there are still many hawkers who do not quite understand the rules and regulations of the Ministry of the Environment. My parliamentary colleague, Mr Chandra Das, the Chairman of the Feedback Unit, has recently conducted a dialogue session with the hawkers. One of the hawkers who attended this dialogue session asked if according to the regulations of the Ministry of the Environment, a fruit stallholder could only sell a watermelon in whole. So if a customer wants to buy only half a watermelon, can the hawker display the other half for sale? Or if somebody wants to buy half a watermelon, he must look for two customers, each wanting to buy half, so that he could sell the whole watermelon. These questions may sound ridiculous. But it reflects a problem and, that is, generally, the hawkers do not quite understand the regulations of the Ministry of the Environment. So I feel that the Ministry of the Environment should take the trouble to explain, and, if necessary, explain again to the hawkers all the rules and regulations of the Ministry.

I hope also that the hawkers should not take an indifferent attitude, on the other hand, and deliberately contravene the rules with full knowledge. They should cooperate with the Ministry of the Environment in enhancing the standard of hygiene of hawker centres. In many hawker centres, the standard of hygiene is far from satisfactory and it has to be improved. So with a higher standard of living of the people in general, the consumers have greater demands. The hawkers should also keep pace with the change of the environment and improve their image and standard of hygiene.

Mr Chandra Das: Mr Speaker, Sir, Mr Goh Chee Wee has already raised most of the points I wanted to say about the feedback session which we had with the hawker associations, market committees and market representatives. All I want to inform the Minister is that they all, generally, agree and understand the need to maintain a high standard of public hygiene in hawker centres and markets. But some areas where they feel they would require some assistance, basically refer to management of hawker centres. Several hawkers felt that there was a need to streamline the roles of various agencies, like HDB, Town Councils, and the Ministry of the Environment, that have dealings with the hawkers. Some hawkers have come across contradictions amongst the instructions given by these agencies. They also become confused as to which is the right policy or instruction to follow.

I would like to stress to the Minister that the hawkers generally call for more regular dialogues between the Ministry and the hawker associations and market committees. This would help to iron out many problems and foster a more conciliatory climate rather than the current confrontational relationship, well illustrated by my colleague, between the two parties. All the hawkers felt that the various policy and regulations will be better accepted by the hawkers if they were properly explained to them, rather than the current harsh approach adopted by the public health inspectors. They too should be educated.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that generally the hawkers accept and uphold the need to maintain a high standard of public health in the hawker centres. Except for the use of disposable gloves, they have no quarrels with the various other policies adopted. What they want from the Ministry is for a more fair and reasonable attitude when its officers enforce the various policies and allow them sufficient time to adjust to the various changes.

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Mr Speaker, Sir, allow me to thank Mr Goh Chee Wee and Mr Chandra Das for their comments and suggestions and indeed all the other Members of this House who have on several occasions outside this Chamber discussed the subject with me, usually during lunch time at Parliament Annexe. I certainly find the feedback useful and, wherever possible, have taken them into consideration in the implementation of our policies.

Let me now turn to the points brought up by them. First, let me deal with enforcement actions taken by my Ministry's Public Health Inspectors (PHIs). Hawkers are unhappy with the enforcement actions by the PHIs and they complain that the inspectors are high-handed. Sir, I can understand their unhappiness with the enforcement officers whose duties are to check on them.

I do not intend to repeat what I have said in my reply to Mr Chiam See Tong earlier today during Question Time. But what I would like to stress is that my Ministry does not and will not tolerate any high-handedness, rudeness or display of arrogance by any officer. So to hon. Members of this House and to members of the public, hawkers included, I say this: if there is a specific complaint on any officer behaving rudely or in a high-handed manner, please let us know. The complaint will be thoroughly looked into.

As regards rats and cockroaches, Mr Speaker, Sir, as we all know, cockroaches and rodents are attracted to and manifest in places that are poorly maintained with lots of food scraps around. Periodic surveys on cockroach and rodent infestations in hawker centres are carried out by my Ministry. For instance, in May this year, out of 4,716 stalls in 53 hawker centres checked for cockroach infestation, only 64 stalls or 1.4% were found to be infested with cockroaches. These 64 stalls were very poorly maintained.

In the case of rodent infestation, 10 out of 57 hawker centres surveyed were found to be infested. These centres were found to be unkempt with food remnants in the perimeter drains and in articles haphazardly stored in the common areas. In such cases, the management of the hawker centres will be asked to spruce up the place. For the information of Members, no individual stallholder has been fined for rodent infestation.

An hon. Member: What about cockroaches?

Dr Ahmad Mattar: Cockroaches, yes.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the preparation of cooked food, I am afraid the request to allow hawkers to prepare food at home cannot be acceded to. In fact, there are only 48 hawkers who are still preparing their food at home. The other 7,345 hawkers are preparing food at their respective stalls. However, these 48 hawkers have been given adequate time to make the necessary adjustment.

On the use of gloves, I would like to reiterate that the use of gloves is advocated only if the hawkers cannot use other appliances such as tongs or scoops to handle ready-to-eat food. Nobody is forcing the hawkers to use gloves if they can use tongs, scoops or other suitable implements to handle ready-to-eat food.

Let me now turn to the subject of management of hawker centres. The roles and functions of the various agencies such as the HDB, Town Councils and the Ministry of the Environment are clear and distinct. Hawker centres in HDB and Town Council estates are managed and maintained by the HDB and the Town Councils respectively. The Ministry of the Environment is the authority responsible to ensure that the public health regulations are complied with.

On the need for more regular dialogue sessions between my Ministry and the hawker associations and market committees, hon. Members may be pleased to know that plans are already under way to organise them on a formal basis. In fact, a programme is being drawn up at present.

However, hon. Members must also recognise that we also have a responsibility to the consumers to maintain a high standard of food hygiene in our food centres. In order to have a balanced assessment of various actions and policies taken by the Ministry regarding food hygiene, dialogue sessions with the consumers will also have to be held to obtain their comments. I believe, Sir, the Consumers' Association of Singapore (CASE) has requested the Feedback Unit to conduct one such session.

As for education, I would like to point out that public health education for hawkers is ongoing for many years. Numerous food hygiene campaigns have been organised at hawker centres and many information and educational brochures and materials have been distributed to the hawkers. Nevertheless, we will see if more can be done. I also wish to inform this House that on the other side of the coin, the PHIs are being trained on communicative skills and how to be tactful when dealing with members of the public, including hawkers.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I know that the majority of our hawkers fully appreciate my Ministry's role in protecting the health of the population at large. I have no doubt whatsoever that they know what their responsibilities are towards the consumers who are their customers. They also know that the way to ensure clean and safe food for the public is to raise their level of hygiene standards and professionalism.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved,

That Parliament do now adjourn.

Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-One minutes to Four o'clock pm to a date to be fixed.