PEOPLE'S ASSOCIATION (AMENDMENT) BILL

Order for Second Reading read.

The Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

This Bill seeks to amend the People's Association (PA) Act to enlarge its objects and powers and to provide protection from personal liability to grassroots leaders and staff of the People's Association.

Establishment of the Community Development Councils

Sir, as Singapore progresses economically, it must constantly be on guard against social stratification. We must take active measures to mitigate this should it happen. To preserve and maintain social harmony, there must be social cohesion between the successful and the less successful. The more able Singaporeans must have a sense of obligation to society and to help the less able. All Singaporeans, regardless of race and religion, have a responsibility to help foster community bonding.

Hence, the Government proposes to set up Community Development Councils (CDCs) to strengthen the social glue that holds our people together and foster community bonding. The CDCs will allow Singaporeans a greater say in the development and management of the social infrastructure within their community. The more successful Singaporeans, especially those who are not already serving in grassroots organisations, can be inducted to serve in the CDCs to care for and help the less successful. Through this process of self-help, more Singaporeans will be involved in a localised form of participative Government. We already have the Town Councils to look after the estate management. The CDCs will look after the social infrastructure.

The CDC will:

(a) have responsibility and funds to develop bonding among members of each local community; and

(b) induct the more successful Singaporeans, especially those not presently involved in grassroots organisations, to serve, care for and help the less successful.

A few CDCs will first be set up as a pilot scheme. Eventually, CDCs will be established to cover the whole country. Objects and Powers of the PA

Sir, the Government proposes to establish the CDCs initially under the People's Association Act. However, the existing objects and powers of the PA specified in section 9 of the PA Act are not wide enough to cover all the activities of the CDCs. The proposed amendments will enlarge the functions of the PA Act to cover the activities of the CDCs. When formed under the PA Act, the CDCs will become committees of the PA. Clause 2 of the Bill amends section 9(1) of this Act to provide for this.

In time, as more experience is gained, a new legislation could be introduced for the CDCs after they have been in operation for some years and when their role expands. That was also how Town Councils were developed. The Ang Mo Kio Town Council, for example, was established about two years before the Town Councils Act was enacted in 1988. As a "pilot" Town Council, the Ang Mo Kio Town Council was managing and maintaining the common properties of the HDB estates in Ang Mo Kio, delegated by the HDB.

Protection from Personal Liability

Sir, in view of the enlarged functions of the PA, there is also a need to protect its grassroots leaders and staff from being personally liable while acting under the direction of the PA or its committees. Protection from personal liability is a standard provision in the Acts of statutory boards, including the Town Councils Act. The PA Act does not have this provision. Hence, clause 3 provides a new section 9A to protect grassroots leaders and staff of the PA from personal liability when they act in good faith under the direction of the PA Board.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question proposed.

Mr Low Thia Khiang (Hougang): ( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the People's Association is formed with the objective of fostering community bonding and enhancing the social cohesiveness of the people. In order to achieve this objective, it must be done regardless of race, religious and political beliefs. However, nowadays, the community-based organisations under the People's Association such as the CCCs and RCs have become grassroots organisations of the People's Action Party.

In the past, when there were no opposition parties in Parliament, the elected Members of Parliament were automatically appointed advisors to the grassroots organisations in their respective constituencies. However, since the Secretary-General of the Workers' Party, Mr Jeyaretnam, was returned to Parliament, the arrangement was changed. A PAP Member of Parliament of another constituency was appointed advisor to the grassroots organisations there, and a second advisor was appointed to supervise grassroots organisation in an opposition constituency. As we all know, the second advisor would eventually become the PAP candidate in the next general election. Now the second advisors can work the ground in the constituency and gain political capital. On the other hand, the Opposition MP who was elected by the people to represent them in Parliament cannot make use of the facilities and resources of the community-based organisations. He is, in fact, excluded from these community-based organisations. This once again shows that the PAP Government does not respect the decision of the people. Are community-based organisations under the People's Association really formed for the purpose of enhancing the cohesiveness of the people? Or are they actually enhancing the cohesiveness of the PAP supporters?

In order to remedy this, we should also amend the People's Association Act to give the following effect: that elected Members of Parliament of all the single constituencies and GRCs shall be consulted in all activities carried out by the People's Association in the constituencies, and the elected Members of Parliament shall be appointed advisors to the grassroots organisations therein, in order to achieve the objectives of the People's Association.

Mr Cheo Chai Chen (Nee Soon Central): ( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the People's Association (Amendment) Bill 1996 seeks to enhance the social cohesiveness of the people. In order to enhance social cohesiveness, the elected Member of Parliament should be allowed to participate in the grassroots organisations because he is the representative elected by the people. He has the support of the majority of the constituents. Logically, he should be automatically appointed advisor to the grassroots organisations in the constituency to lead and motivate the residents into participating in activities organised by these grassroots organisations. However, there is no such provision in this Amendment Bill. Accordingly, I propose that there should be a provision in the People's Association Act that the elected Member of Parliament for the constituency should automatically become the advisor to the grassroots organisations therein.

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, there is a glaring discrimination against the Opposition MPs. All Opposition MPs are not appointed advisors to the grassroots organisations whereas all PAP Members of Parliament are automatically appointed advisors to grassroots organisations. The Board of the People's Association in this respect is going against the wishes of the people. The constituents want their elected representatives to be their advisors in the grassroots organisations but the People's Association thinks otherwise. In fact, the PA has elevated a defeated PAP candidate at the polls to a higher status than the elected Opposition MP at Potong Pasir. The defeated PAP candidate is given all the facilities to win back the seat. He has been given special facilities such as a room in the void deck to hold meetings and to hold his meet-the-people sessions. That room is fully air-conditioned and fully equipped with computers and other clerical aids. On the other hand, the elected Opposition MP has to work from a table that is placed in the open void deck, no different from a fortune teller plying his trade on a five-foot way.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Another Singapore's first.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Such is the humiliation accorded to an elected Member of Parliament. But the people of Singapore are mature. They know what is going on and such shabby treatment of an Opposition MP shall be counter-productive.

I support Mr Low's suggestion that the Act be amended to allow all elected Opposition MPs to be appointed as advisors to the grassroots organisations. It is not just right to appoint a defeated PAP candidate to be the advisor of grassroots organisations, such as in Potong Pasir, it is an incongruity which must be put right. At Potong Pasir, as an elected MP, in fact I have to make applications for CIPC funds to the Chairman of the CCC for which the defeated candidate is the advisor. How do you think the defeated candidate will advise the CCC? To give support to the Opposition's application? Naturally not. My Town Council's applications for CIPC funds have been rejected. I am not surprised at those rejections. How can one expect a defeated candidate, who is trying hard to unseat the incumbent Member of Parliament, to support that MP in his community projects for which he will gain credit, and to make his own chances of success to be elected more remote?

If the Opposition Member of Parliament is not made an advisor to the grassroots organisations, the Opposition constituency shall be deprived of CIPC funds and other benefits and it shall be put in a most disadvantageous position. So I call upon the Minister to amend the Act.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, it came as no surprise to me that the three Opposition MPs have raised the same point. I suppose they may have discussed among themselves. But this is not a new point. It is a question which has been raised on many occasions, ever since I was the Minister for Community Development. A question was raised by Mr Chiam about the role of grassroots organisations and the advisors and the role of the Opposition. And I have explained many times too that grassroots organisations and the PA serve the interest of the Government. The Government's objective is to ensure that its programmes are carried out, its policies are understood, facilities are open to the public, and to make sure that they come in and enjoy the facilities and at the same time to take part in discussions and feedback and various other activities. So, from time to time, the grassroots organisations carry out all these Government policies.

I have also said in the past that I find it very difficult to believe that Opposition MPs will serve this role well, compared to the people that the Government will appoint. And, in this instance, we happen to appoint all our Members of Parliament to be the advisors of grassroots organisations and people whom we think can carry out Government policies to be their advisors. So, for the same reason now, I am telling the three Members here that we do not think that they can really perform the role that the Government envisages of the advisors of the grassroots organisations and therefore they will not be appointed as advisors.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Mr Speaker, Sir, clarification. The Minister has just mentioned that the grassroots organisations serve the PAP Government's interest. That is what he has mentioned.

Some hon. Members: Serve the Government.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: So perhaps the grassroots organisations should be separated from the community organisations. The Amendment Bill says "the fostering of community bonding and strengthening of social cohesion amongst the people of Singapore". If the grassroots organisation is going to be termed as a community organisation, and where a constituency is held by the Opposition, the people clearly voted for the Opposition, how do you propose to bond the people of Singapore? I would suggest that maybe it is more appropriate to say, "the fostering of community bonding and strengthening of social cohesion amongst the PAP supporters of Singapore." What is the view of the Minister?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, I mentioned the Government's programmes and policies. Of course, this is a PAP Government. There is no doubt about that. But Government's interest is to look after every Singaporean's interest. Therefore, social cohesion is one of the objectives and you must find the organisation that will serve this objective. There is nothing to stop the four Members of the Opposition from having their own committees to do the same thing. But as far as the organisations that the PA has, these are to serve the Government's interest and the Government's programmes.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Minister saying that if the Opposition were to form a committee, it would be recognised as a community-based committee and thereby accorded the same status and privilege as those committees under the PA?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, right now, the Opposition already have facilities to do that. They have access to town councils. They can do projects within the town councils. If you look at the Town Councils Act, it gives you enough leeway to do what you think is necessary for this purpose.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Mr Speaker, Sir, my question was whether if such committee is formed by the Opposition, it will be recognised and accorded the same privilege as these committees under the PA. And I wish to remind the Minister that the Town Councils Act is going to be amended today as well which would make it difficult.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, the People's Association Act does not provide for such committees to be formed outside the Act, as required by the Member for Hougang. The PA Act has its own committees and organisations.

Mr Low Thia Khiang rose ---

Mr Speaker: Mr Low, may I remind you that the debate has ended and I have allowed you to seek clarification. But I will not allow you to continue with the questioning.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Mr Speaker, Sir, a clarification

Mr Speaker: All right. One last clarification.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: I wish to clarify. How does the Minister propose to foster community bonding and promote community spirit when the Opposition is excluded from the community by the Act and by the actual appointment of advisor?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, what he is saying is that the Opposition Member of Parliament is excluded. But by excluding the Opposition Member of Parliament from the grassroots organisations does not mean that these grassroots organisations cannot perform the role of fostering community spirit and social cohesion. There are other leaders and people whom we can find to do the job, and they are much better than the Opposition.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Further clarification, Sir. Does the Minister say that the people who are doing the community work should be politically neutral to serve the interest of the community or are they supposed to serve the PAP Government?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, the Government does not question the political inclination of the grassroots leaders. It is up to them. In fact, they may support the PAP.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, may I have a clarification from the Minister?, I suppose fostering of community bonding would mean the bonding of the different races - Malay, Chinese, Indians and others. And with regard to social cohesion, this would probably mean the cohesion of different class levels - working class and people who are not in the working class and of different professions. Can I have a clarification on this, please?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Fostering community spirit and social cohesion cover all Singaporeans, regardless of race, language or religion.

Mr Chiam See Tong: What does the Minister understand by these two phrases? Can I have a clarification? What is community bonding and what is strengthening of social cohesion?

Mr Speaker: Order. It appears to me that the hon. Members are questioning the Minister when in effect the debate has ended. I would like to remind the Members that in seeking clarification, they should actually confine themselves to seeking clarification as defined under the Standing Orders. But it appears to me that they are putting new questions to the Minister under the guise of seeking clarification.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, I was going to follow up with another question.

Mr Speaker: Mr Chiam, you should have asked these questions during the course of your speech. That is the point that I am trying to make to you.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Can I ask the Minister then, how does he intend to have community bonding and strengthening of social cohesion when he keeps out a representative who represents 70% of the constituents? How are you going to achieve your ends?

Mr Speaker: I think these points have been raised by the Minister in the course of his speech. Mr Wong, do you still wish to reply?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: I think Mr Chiam did not understand my answer. I have already answered the question.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, the Minister, by practice and the Act, is keeping out the elected representative of the constituency from grassroots activities and he represents 70% of the constituents. If 70% of the constituents are not represented in these grassroots organisations, how is he going to achieve this end of community bonding and social cohesion? That is my question.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, I thought I have answered all these questions. He did not quite understand it. Let me repeat it one more time. These community organisations and grassroots organisations serve everyone in the constituency. It does not need the Opposition MP to be the advisor.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, the leader that he is talking about only represents 30% of the constituents. How is he going to achieve the objectives?

Mr Speaker: Order. Mr Chiam, I do not think you are seeking clarification. I think you are repeating yourself. I will put an end to the debate now.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have a further clarification.

Mr Speaker: Yes.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Under clause 2(e), it says "the carrying out of such activities as appear to the Board to be advantageous towards, or necessary or convenient for, the furtherance of the objects ...". I would like the Minister to clarify what are "such activities" referred to in the Bill. Is an activity like pasar malam considered as an activity to further the Board's objects?

Mr Speaker: Order. Mr Low, you are not seeking clarification on the point raised by the Minister in the course of his speech. You are in fact introducing new material into the debate. I will disallow that.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Wong Kan Seng].

Bill considered in Committee.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2 -

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, I have asked the question just now. What do "such activities" refer to under clause 2 of the Amendment Bill? Is an activity like pasar malam considered as an activity to further the objects of the People's Association?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, there are many kinds of activities that we cannot anticipate. That is why this clause is worded this way, ie, to carry out such activities as they further the objects of the Act. If pasar malam happens to help foster community bonding and gets the grassroots leaders to work together with the residents and if it provides them with an opportunity to get together, it will fall under the ambit of this Amendment Bill.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: A further clarification, Sir. What would be the principle in considering activities which would deem to be fostering community bonding? Are there any criteria or standards to decide on such activities, or just any activity as you wish?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, for example, if an organisation wants to have a gambling pasar malam, a session for gambling, that definitely will not be the kind of activity that we envisage. But if an activity that helps to bring people together, provides them with a place to go to and brings the people together so that they know each other better, that will be within the spirit of this Bill.

Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported without amendment, read a Third time and passed.