SPEAKERS' CORNER

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Simon Tay asked the Minister for Home Affairs if he will give an update on the use of the Speakers' Corner and, in particular, the number of complaints received and police investigations that have resulted from events held at the Corner.

The Minister of State for Home Affairs (Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee) (for the Minister for Home Affairs): Mr Speaker, Sir, since its inception on 1st September 2000, there have been about 800 registrations to speak at Speakers' Corner. Many more have gone there to listen.

To date, Police has received no complaints from the public on the use of the Speakers' Corner. However, from a website posting, it would appear that an illegal assembly had taken place at the Speakers' Corner on 10th December last year, which I had already discussed in this House at our last sitting. Police is currently investigating into this.

Mr Simon S C Tay (Nominated Member): Sir, may I ask if it is the principle of the Police to investigate everything it sees on the website?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, if the Police receives information from a reliable source such as media report or website that an offence may have been committed, and there is indicative evidence, then it is Police's professional duty to investigate.

Mr Simon Tay: Sir, may I remind the Minister of State that he said that the Police has received no complaints from the public. Is he saying that every website is reliable?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: The website posting was in the Think Centre website. It was a report and, in fact, there was also a photograph of people with clenched fists raised, and the report said that they chanted "Abolish ISA" several times. The Police assessed that this may be indicative of a demonstration having taken place. So, they saw it as their duty to investigate.

Mr Simon Tay: Sir, this is pending investigations, therefore, I am sure the Minister of State will not want to go too much into the details of this particular case. But may I ask, more generally, what is the difference between speech and demonstrations? And whether per se if I were to go to the Speakers' Corner and clench my fist in the air, is that a demonstration, Sir?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, at the last sitting, I had an exchange with Mr Jeyaretnam. Many speakers have gone there to speak. Many people have gone there to listen. They have not met with any problems from the Police. But if there is an organised meeting at the Speakers' Corner to demonstrate, in this case, for the abolition of ISA, and five or more people gather there, then it is indicative evidence of an illegal assembly having taken place. So Police has to investigate.

Mr Simon Tay: Sir, I take it then that it is not the clenched fist which he mentioned that is the cause. May I go on to the next question, Sir? This is whether five or more people could register to speak on the same topic, either sequentially or at the same time, at the Speakers' Corner?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, investigations are ongoing. So we should not go into details. Basically, we have said that the laws of the land must be observed, and the laws include the Miscellaneous Offences (Public Order and Nuisance) (Assemblies and Processions) Act read with the Miscellaneous Offences (Public Order and Nuisance) (Assemblies and Processions) Rules, which defines what an "illegal assembly" is. That is the basis upon which Police is investigating.

Mr Simon Tay: Sir, without going into the details of this case, I am concerned for future use, in the sense that any speaker goes down and if five or more people were to follow him and start clenching their fists and saying, "Yes, we agree with you" or "No, we don't agree with you with whatever it is you are saying", how would the Minister be satisfied that this too is not worthy of investigation?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, I think it is quite different if you go there on your own accord, as an individual speaker, you go and speak. And indeed when your speech is a rousing one, people may support you. But you cannot be said to be organising an illegal assembly. It is quite different from the situation in hand.

Mr Simon Tay: Sir, may I ask the Minister of State that if I were to e-mail to friends saying, "I am turning up on Friday evening. Will you come and support me?", will that be considered organising an illegal assembly?

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, as I said, we have to look at the Miscellaneous Offences (Public Order and Nuisance) (Assemblies and Processions) Rules. If you look at rule 2, it defines when an "illegal assembly" has taken place. Rule 2 says:

"If five or more persons . [gather together] to (a) demonstrate support for or opposition to the views or actions of any person; (b) to publicise a cause or campaign; or (c) to mark or commemorate an event," then an illegal assembly may have taken place.

Sir, let us go on the law. In the context of these questions, it is better for the investigations to be completed before we further this discussion in the House.

Mr Simon Tay: A final question, if I may, Mr Speaker? This is to ask the Minister of State whether they will, in fact, help us by tracking the continued usage of the Speakers' Corner, subsequent to the public knowledge of these investigations. My concern is that there will be some chilling effect that people will stop using this early experiment in Singapore.

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, we do not track the use of the Speakers' Corner. I think that is the starting point. In this case, indeed, but for the website posting in the Think Centre website, the Police may not have known of the event. That is the basis on which we should operate the Speakers' Corner.

Mr Simon Tay rose -

Mr Speaker: One more question, Mr Tay.

Mr Simon Tay: I think I was misunderstood on that point. The Minister of State has told us that 800 people have registered to use the Speakers' Corner since its inception. I am asking the Ministry just to keep track of the numbers since knowledge about the investigations that have happened. My concern is that usage will fall to close to zero, because people will be very frightened to speak.

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Yes, we can do that. That is not really tracking. The numbers are there because people register. We can look at the numbers in due course.