HEAD N - MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

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Head N - Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head N of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100.

Sir, it has been two years since 9/11. Governments in many parts of the world are harnessing all their resources to tackle and combat terrorism. Religious

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extremism and terrorism have reared its ugly head in Southeast Asia. There was a series of bombings in Bali, Jakarta and Manila. War had broken in Iraq. The US-led coalition forces had ousted Saddam Hussein from power and a new Iraqi administration is being formed. Singapore has sent a military contingent to help maintain security in post-war Iraq.

This year is a bumper year for elections in the region. The election fever is on. Malaysia is in the midst of a general election, with the major battle lines being drawn between the Barisan Nasional led by Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi and PAS. It is, indeed, a litmus test of the support for the new Malaysian Prime Minister. In Indonesia, President Megawati will have to campaign and campaign hard to win a new mandate. Likewise, President Arroyo of the Philippines is going to have a tough fight against presidential candidate Poe. Taiwan is also having one of its most hotly contested presidential elections ever, with President Chen Shuibian trading blow for blow with former Prime Minister Lien Chan of the Kuomintang. There is also the thorny issue of cross-straits relations between Taiwan and the PRC, with talks of independence and referendum threatening to disrupt the peace in the region.

The region is indeed in a state of flux and change. The outcome of the elections will determine the future of the region.

And in Northeast Asia, there is a potential flare-up with the North Korean Dear Leader Kim Jong Il, flashing his nuclear card at the world. But there is now a glimmer of hope that there will be a settlement and I hope the North Korean Dear Leader will draw some lessons from Colonel Gadaffi of Libya.

In terms of big powers, Sir, the USA remains the pre-eminent power in the

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region and beyond, showing her flag with the Seventh Fleet. And, we have a fast-rising and seemingly unstoppable China. The Chinese giant has indeed awakened and we have to live with it. From the South China Sea, let us move over to the Indian Ocean, where we have another big power - India. The Indian economy is being propelled into the big league by the power of outsourcing and computing, as well as the purchasing power of its growing middle class.

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Sir, Singapore is being sandwiched between two oceans, two big powers, China and India. What do all these mean then for Singapore?

We have to read and discern the power lines, the fault lines. We have to be nimble and adjust to the changes. We have to reposition ourselves. By our strategies and wits, we can ensure the long-term security and prosperity of our country. For example, we can leverage on our position as a strategic hub and make ourselves useful in business, trade and diplomacy. I therefore want to ask the Minister for his reading on the changes in the strategic landscape of the region, and what are the roles for Singapore in the world and the region.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: Sir, Dr Ong's overview was comprehensive. I would like to focus on one question on how the war in Iraq and the war against terrorism are affecting the geopolitics of East Asia, given that in the post-Iraq war era, the United States has emerged as the sole global superpower. I would like to make two observations.

First, the US has become more unilateralist and strategically more intrusive. On a foreign policy level, this means demands on allies and pressures on perceived foes. It is multi-lateral when it suits its purposes and unilateral when it

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wants to get its way. American determination to pursue the war against Iraq without UN authorisation suggests that where its security interests are perceived as being threatened, it will go its own way whatever friends and allies might say. And it turns out that there is no WMD in Iraq for a few years before March 2003 when the US launched its invasion.

Sir, it seems to me, as an observer, that the world can be a more uncertain place if we have a superpower with superior military might but not as superior intelligence. Some of us will remember that in 1999, a mistaken air strike against the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade occurred when a US plane attacked the wrong target because the bombing instructions were based on an outdated map.

The US is our friend and we welcome its presence in this region but it should bear in mind that it can provoke resentment from lesser powers if it continues to behave unilaterally on the international stage and fumble its way around without due regard for the sentiments of its friends and allies.

Sir, second observation. Despite uneasiness of a more interventionist America in the region, states in this region will have to engage America in the long-term war against international terrorism. In a sense, the direction that political Islam will take will have a bearing on how the radical elements can be contained, especially given the elections in Malaysia and Indonesia this year.

Given the American tendency to focus more on the military option in dealing with international terrorism, Washington will need to be reminded that it is also a battle for the hearts and minds and we need to engage the US in this process to sensitise it to the regional problems. Americans'

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security rests not only on military power but also on international respect and an acknowledged leadership based on the superiority of its system and its ideas. If it is undermined by its own actions, that will be the terrorists' victory.

I would like the Minister's reading of this situation.

United States of America

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, I agree with my colleague, Ms Irene Ng, that the United States is the pre-eminent superpower in the world. Its presence is much felt in our region, in terms of economy and security. For Singapore , the US is our biggest export market as well as the most important source for foreign direct investments. In terms of security, we welcome US presence in the region as it provides us as a way of balancing power in the region.

Singapore supported the coalition position on Iraq at the United Nations. Most recently, Singapore has sent a small military contingent to Iraq to help maintain security.

Singapore also gives the Americans access to our air and naval facilities I understand that Singapore acts in our own national interests. In terms of geopolitics, trade and investment, it makes sense for us to align with the United States of America .

However, in April last year, the Straits Times did an opinion survey on the outbreak of the Iraqi war. According to the survey, there were "fears about the possibility of revenge or of Singapore becoming a target for terrorists or others in the region because of its open support for the moves to remove the Iraqi regime."

I wish to ask the Minister to give us the rationale for such close relationship

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and ties with the United States , and what does he see as the real benefits of such relationship. Are there also disadvantages? Will we, by association, be a prime target of opponents of the United States ?

The Minister for Foreign Affairs (Prof. S Jayakumar): **** Sir, I will reply to Dr Ong Chit Chung who has asked for my reading of the strategic landscape and also the comments that he and Ms Irene Ng have made.

On the strategic review, as I survey the region and the world today, I think there are areas of serious concern, not only for the region and the world but, by and large, I think international relations are essentially stable. In saying this, I am not suggesting that there are no conflicts or problem areas, actual or potential. Of course, there are.

Terrorism continues to be of serious concern, as speakers have mentioned - witness the attacks in Turkey , Saudi Arabia , and closer to home, in Indonesia and Thailand . The prospect of terrorists getting hold of WMD is a great worry to all of us. New kinds of transnational challenges, such as pandemic diseases and piracy, also confront us. But what I mean by stability is geopolitical stability.

Sir, relations among the major powers are in equilibrium. Most conflicts do not threaten this equilibrium. Moreover, many of the challenges the world faces today present opportunities for countries to work together to tackle them. My conclusion is that although there are potential problem areas, overall, the world is stable. In fact, I cannot easily recall any other period in modern history when the threat of serious conflicts between major powers has been so low.

Let me explain. Members referred to the United States and I agree with them that the key geopolitical fact of the post-

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cold war period is the pre-eminence of the United States . This does not mean the United States will always get its way- it is clearly facing serious difficulties in Iraq - but America faces no credible challenge to its global geopolitical position. Other major powers may be uncomfortable with the United States ' pre-eminence. But they still want the best possible relationship they can have with the United States . The simple reason for this is that they know that there is no major international issue that can be resolved without the cooperation of the United States , and none of them, singly or a combination, can challenge the United States ' pre-eminence. At the same time, all the major powers are trying to stabilise their relations with each other, at least partially, because they understand that this puts them in a better position to cope with the geopolitical realities of the post-cold war period.

Dr Ong Chit Chung mentioned East Asia . In East Asia , the strategic triangle of the United States-China-Japan relations, which is the foundation for regional growth and prosperity, is also stable. At the same time, China 's relationship with India , Japan 's relationship with South Korea , and China 's relationship with Japan , while not free of difficulties, are all distinctly improving and this is something we should welcome.

On China , I would like to make the observation that geoeconomics is becoming as important as geopolitics. All of East Asia has made a fundamental political choice to fulfill national aspirations through market and trade, and not war. China is always central in this. A changing China is forcing change throughout Asia and beyond. China is important to Singapore and the region. China 's decision to seek an FTA with ASEAN was the catalyst that led to Japan , India and South Korea also wanting to engage ASEAN more deeply. China has a major global and regional role

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and it is increasingly important as an economic partner.

Sir, our relations with China are excellent. Prime Minister's visit last November ensured continuity in our bilateral ties with the new leadership there. We will continue to broaden our contacts with the new leadership. And an outcome of Prime Minister's visit last year was a decision to institutionalise our bilateral ties through a joint council on bilateral cooperation (JCBC) which will be chaired at the DPM level but directed by the Prime Ministers. This first meeting of the JCBC will be convened in May this year.

On the economic front, after the conclusion of the negotiations on goods for the ASEAN-China FTA by June this year, both sides would begin negotiations for a bilateral FTA.

I said there are potential problem areas. This shows that not everything is well. There are three potential conflicts that can threaten geopolitical equilibrium - North Korea , India/Pakistan conflict and cross strait relations. It will not be easy to find clear or definitive solutions to these thorny issues. There are seldom clear solutions to most international problems, but I think all three conflicts can and are being managed.

On North Korea , last year, I expressed Singapore 's concern over the situation in the Korean Peninsula , and North Korea 's attempts to acquire nuclear weapons. It is clearly in our interest and the region's interest to see stability in the Korean Peninsula , so that the strategic balance in the Asia Pacific region is stable and no regional arms race is triggered off. So, I am glad that the six-party talks will continue. These talks are a vital mechanism for managing the situation in the Korean Peninsula .

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On India/Pakistan, I think a new opportunity for rapprochement between India and Pakistan has opened up. These two nuclear states came close to another war not long ago. Now they have taken various steps to restore normal relations and dialogue has been re-established at the summit level. This is good for the region and, hopefully, will remove a potential flashpoint.

Singapore has good relations with both India and Pakistan , and we are happy to note these recent positive developments. South Asia 's great economic potential can be fully realised only when there is stability between India and Pakistan

Dr Ong Chit Chung referred to cross strait relations. Indeed, cross strait relations perhaps pose the greatest risk of miscalculation. It would prove particularly sensitive in view of the elections in Taiwan . The decision in Taiwan to hold a referendum on 20th March has raised regional concerns. Our concern is that the timing of the referendum could increase the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculation by either side leading to a mishap which indeed would be tragic.

Singapore 's position on China has been clear and consistent, most recently stated by Prime Minister Goh on 11th December 2003 following the ASEAN-Japan Commemorative Summit in Tokyo , when he reiterated that Singapore 's policy is for one China . We do not support independence for Taiwan . As a small country, our concern is with regional stability and for the status quo to be maintained. We therefore view with concern any move that may upset the status quo like holding a referendum in Taiwan . That remains our position and we note that similar statements have been made by several other countries, amongst them Japan , United States and several ASEAN countries.

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Sir, US-China relations are stable. It is clear that while neither side will compromise its fundamental interests, neither wants Taiwan to destabilise their relationship if this can be avoided. Both Beijing and Washington understand that it is in their interest to have good relations with each other. Some degree of competition, of course, between the United States and China may be inevitable, but conflict between them is certainly not inevitable. The very complexity of US-China relations and the multi-dimensional nature require an effort by both sides to balance and reconcile different perspectives and to achieve equilibrium. This calms all of East Asia .

Turning to South East Asia , ASEAN is slowly emerging from its trials and tribulations in the last few years. We are not out of the woods yet, Sir. But the Bali Summit last year took certain critical decisions which set new directions for ASEAN. Foremost amongst these was an endorsement of the ASEAN economic community as a goal. I will speak more about ASEAN when Members speak on their cuts later. On Malaysia and Indonesia , both are having elections soon. For Malaysia, let me just say at this stage that the atmospherics of our relations with Malaysia have improved markedly following Prime Minister Badawi's visit to Singapore on 12th January; and visit of Prime Minister Goh and several of the Cabinet Ministers to Johor on 24th January for the Chinese New Year celebrations at the invitation of Prime Minister Abdullah; and the return visit of Prime Minister Abdullah and his Cabinet members the next day at the invitation of the Prime Minister.

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On Indonesia , our relationship with Indonesia remains strong. Of course, any relationship of close interdependence would never be problem-free. What is important is not to let the problems

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overshadow common interest and the potential for mutually beneficial cooperation as sovereign equals. There is much that Malaysia , Singapore and Indonesia cooperating with one another and ASEAN countries can achieve.

Other neighbours, with Thailand , our relations have increased substantially in recent years. Prime Minister Goh has developed excellent working relations with Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Both sides have adopted a pragmatic approach to issues, such as our approach towards reinvigorating ASEAN through intensifying economic integration, such as the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) and the "2+X" initiative. Our officials have regular exchanges at various bilateral fora, such as STEER (Singapore-Thailand Enhanced Economic Relationship) and the Civil Service Exchange Programme (CSEP).

On Vietnam , our relations have strengthened over the past year and have been given a boost with Prime Minister Goh's informal visit to Vietnam in March last year and Prime Minister Phan Van Khai's visit to Singapore this week. We have just signed the Joint Declaration on Long-term and Comprehensive Cooperation Framework for 21st Century this week. The two countries have continued to make important strides in economic cooperation. EDB and the Vietnamese Ministry of Planning and Investment have signed a Memorandum of Agreement in October last year to promote third country investments to both Singapore and Vietnam . The Vietnam-Singapore Commission of Cooperation (VSCC), a ministerial level economic coordination mechanism, was reinstituted last year to promote economic cooperation. And our relations with other ASEAN countries and neighbours are also excellent. We have stepped up our interactions with Cambodia , Laos , Brunei , helping us to consolidate and expand our linkages with these ASEAN countries.

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But, Sir, I think I should spend a little bit more time on our relations with the United States because Dr Ong and Ms Irene Ng have asked about it. Sir, I would say our relations with United States have never been better. This does not mean that we will agree with the United States on every issue. Neither does it mean that we do not value our relationship with other major powers. We do not see our relationship with the United States as a zero sum game with our relationships with other major powers, and we do not think that even the closest of friends must be obliged to agree with each other on every issue. Last year, I pointed out that our stand on Palestine , Myanmar , cloning are examples of issues where we do not agree with the United States .

But, Sir, the relationship we have with the United States is certainly unique, given the United States' position in the international system. Strategically and economically, as a force for stability, as a major trading partner and as a source of investments, technology and know-how, the United States is of central importance to Singapore , as it is to many other countries in our region.

Last year, we concluded the US-Singapore Free Trade Agreement (USSFTA) which is now in force. This has added an important new dimension to our relationship. We saw the USSFTA as not merely of bilateral significance but also as a means of anchoring the United States in our entire region. And we are happy to note, Sir, that several other South East Asian countries are now seeking FTAs or other trade agreements with the United States . So it has had a catalytic effect. This is a welcome development because we regard them as building blocks towards an eventual ASEAN-US FTA.

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Both Dr Ong Chit Chung and Ms Irene Ng talked about Iraq - on our position and Dr Ong asked if we are too pro-US. Sir, while we look forward to further significant enhancements of our relationship with the United States this year, I am aware of the points made by Dr Ong. I am aware that some Singaporeans seem a little uncomfortable with our close relationship with the United States . Dr Ong referred to the opinion poll done by the Straits Times in April last year where some respondents feared reprisal for Singapore 's open support for the United States on Iraq . I recall that some asked, "Why not stay neutral?" I think some also suggested, instead of making a public stand, why not just drop them a quiet note saying that, "We support you - good luck." But, Sir, when news broke out that we were deploying SAF assets to Iraq , some Singaporeans have expressed concern about the dangers. Now that President Bush and Prime Minister Blair are being questioned on the failure to find WMD in Iraq, I can see that some Singaporeans may well wonder whether our position in Iraq was wrong. Were we, as Dr Ong has asked, too pro-US?

Sir, I do not think that our position was wrong. We do not think that we were too pro-US. In fact, this is the wrong way to try to understand this. Let me reiterate the key points that I made in last year's Committee of Supply debate when this issue came up. I said that we are not pro-US, we are not anti-any country. What we are is that we are pro-Singapore in the sense that, ultimately, what guides us in our foreign policy is our national interest. And that remains our fundamental approach, not just on the Iraq issue, but on any other issue.

Much of what I said on Iraq last year remains valid. There is no doubt that Iraq had been in material breach of many United Nations Security Council resolutions for many years. In fact, Iraq

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was unique in its consistent defiance of the UN Security Council resolutions.

With its abysmal record, what reason was there to suspect that Saddam Hussein will not resume his "cat and mouse" game that he had played so many years with the UN weapons inspectors once the threat of military action had passed? Was it an acceptable risk?

Sir, after 911, it was clear to all that the global security environment had undergone a fundamental structural change. The possibility of terrorists gaining control of WMD was no longer an acceptable risk, not just to the United States , but to every responsible member of the international community, including Singapore . Once the United States had decided, it was no longer prepared to tolerate even the slightest possibility of threat from Saddam Hussein and was determined to ensure its own security by removing him, the creditability of the United States ' resolve then became the key factor in our calculation of national interest.

Sir, one of the most important international issues we will have to deal with for many years is terrorism. International terrorist networks are deeply embedded in South East Asia . It will take many years to root them out. Until they are rooted out, Singapore will be at risk, and the risks, I must add, existed well before we took a position in support of the United States on Iraq . We cannot deal with the terrorist threat alone. The struggle against terrorism is and will be a global one, and only the United States has the capability to lead it.

This is why we supported the United States on Iraq . If, after all that was said and because of the opposition it faced at the Security Council, if the United States had not acted, and when it acted, found itself abandoned by all its friends,

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extremists all around the world would have been emboldened.

So, like all countries, Singapore had to decide whether or not to support the United States . There was no room for ambiguity. We could not, as a reader mentioned in that Straits Times' poll referred to by Dr Ong, just send a quiet note of support - anonymous. Singapore has long publicly spoken about how important and irreplaceable a role the United States plays in the world and in our region. Now what is the point of professing friendship if we do not act on what we say when our support is needed? It was and it remains in our interest to match our words with deeds. Otherwise, how can we, as a country, be credible?

Sir, the failure to find WMD in Iraq has, of course, raised serious questions about intelligence failures. Both President Bush and Prime Minister Blair have launched investigations into why their intelligence agencies did not get it right. But regardless of what these investigations finally conclude, the global threat of WMD proliferation is real. There is no doubt about that. It must always be a real concern to a small densely populated country like Singapore . The nexus between WMD proliferation and terrorism is of greater worry. Last year, SARS gave us just a small foretaste, a sample, of what a biological or chemical attack might be like. Therefore, we cannot take any chances when it comes to our security.

Let me make another point, Sir. The war in Iraq has already had salutary effects on the struggle to curb WMD proliferation. Iran has begun to cooperate with the IAEA. Libya has come clean and has given up its WMD programme. Pakistan has begun to cooperate in investigations about the spread of nuclear weapon technology. All these developments make the world and our

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region safer. So when Dr Ong and Irene Ng asked these questions about our position, I ask, "Are these not developments in our national interest?" The answer is, "They are." And I do not believe that North Korea would have gone back to the six-party talks had not the United States' resolve been made so manifestly clear in Iraq. Does anyone seriously believe that all these developments would have happened if the United States had not stayed the course in Iraq ? A rhetorical question but I would answer, "That was the key factor."

Prevention of WMD proliferation is of prime concern to Singapore . We must do our part in global counter-proliferation and counter-terrorism efforts. We have tightened up our export control regime and we are expanding and deepening cooperation with other countries to take action against WMD proliferation. Sir, last year, we intercepted several shipments of items that could have been used in the manufacture of chemical weapons or missiles. Some companies have been prosecuted for breaking our export control laws. We will continue to exercise great vigilance and work with other countries to curb this threat. And to this end, as Members may know, Singapore recently joined the Proliferation Security Initiative as a member of its core group.

Before I conclude, Sir, I have not forgotten Ms Irene Ng's point about unilateralism. Sir, we wish that we lived in a perfect international system where there are neat and cut and dried solutions. But, unfortunately, the world is a massive place. It is too simplistic to see unilateralism and multilateralism as mutually exclusive alternatives. There is no country that allows its vital security interest to be held hostage to multilateral process, if it had a choice. And no country equally, however powerful, that

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will not submit to multilateral processes if that is the best way to advance its interests. And indeed it is good that the United Nations now, with encouragement from the United States , is exploring a renewed role in Iraq .

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In conclusion, let me say that this year will present new challenges and opportunities in our foreign relations. My Ministry will continue to work to strengthen and consolidate our bilateral relations with all our key partners and countries in the region. The challenge is to continue the momentum of broadening our ties and linkages with these countries and enhance our multi-faceted relations.

ASEAN

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, ASEAN was established in 1967 and it has indeed come a long way. Many fear, however, that the heydays of ASEAN are over. It is now in the doldrums. President Soeharto used to be the anchor man for ASEAN. He was the statesman who gave ASEAN the vision and cohesion. Before the rise of China and India, ASEAN used to be the top priority for other nations and investors. Now, most gravitate to China and India. Even in terms of trade, there is no common market like the European Union. For want of a better way, ASEAN countries, like Singapore, are trying to tie up FTAs with major trading partners, and we have done so with Japan and the USA. ASEAN has to get its act together and remake itself or reinvent itself.

In this context, Sir, I wish to ask the Minister what he sees as the future of ASEAN. Is ASEAN a lame duck? Mr Ong Keng Yong, a Singaporean, is now the current ASEAN Secretary-General. Does this help to move ASEAN forward? I would also like to ask the Minister for his views on the ASEAN Security Community as proposed by Indonesia.

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Sir, ASEAN has convened a number of meetings on terrorism. May I ask the Minister on the outcome of such meetings? Further, what is Singapore's position on the early release of Abu Bakar Bashir in Jakarta? I think this is really a setback for all the efforts of the countries around the world to combat and contain terrorism.

Mr Ravindran: Sir, post-1997 crisis, observers have commented that ASEAN has weakened. I would like to ask the Minister the following questions:

Firstly, what is the true state of affairs of ASEAN today and whether the Bali Summit last year marked the beginning of a resurgent ASEAN?

Secondly, I would like to ask the Minister what steps are being taken within ASEAN to help the CLMV states, so that they can catch up in the development stages as fast as the other six states.

Lastly, Sir, in the area of security, are there plans to have an extradition treaty among ASEAN members in the area of terrorism, and also whether in the area of security engagement of the different countries in South Asia, Southeast Asia and North Asia, what are the future plans that ASEAN has to continue to engage these countries, so that we continue to have an ASEAN region which is peaceful and free of multi-power rivalry?

Mr Tan Soo Khoon (East Coast): Sir, I too would like to join my colleagues in expressing my concerns about ASEAN.

The Minister has earlier spoken about the Bali Summit, from which has emerged the Bali Concord II agreement as well as the idea of establishing an ASEAN Economic Community (AEC). I welcome this objective of setting up the AEC. But my concern is whether we will find out later, as had happened with other

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agreements in the past, that national interests and sensitivities will impede its progress. The AEC is to be built upon the ASEAN Free Trade Area. But, to recall, Sir, how difficult it has been for AFTA to get off the ground, as in the past years we have had different countries backtracking on their commitments to AFTA. Such reluctance on the part of the countries to go full steam with AFTA can only fuel further scepticism that ASEAN meetings produce lots of rhetoric but, in practice, much less is achieved. Already, the concept of the AEC seems to have gone off to a rocky start with Singapore and Thailand wanting a single market by 2015 while the other countries are settling for 2020, ie, if they do not start making excuses nearer the date.

The Minister also spoke earlier about the idea of the "2+X" approach, whereby any two countries can move ahead as long as they want to do so, instead of the old arrangement whereby ASEAN would only move as fast as its slowest member is prepared to go which in fact meant, on many occasions, that quite often, ASEAN could not move fast enough. One must, therefore, ask whether this "2+X" approach undermines ASEAN cohesiveness or does it merely augment the view that ASEAN is just a collection of countries with so many disparate views that its members are more often in disagreement than in agreement.

Sir, we all know that ASEAN has lived up to the realities of facing competition, particularly from China. We must also seek to regain the confidence of our economic partners, otherwise it is no use to keep on repeating that we have such a large market of 500 million people to offer to investors. Take another example - America's war against Iraq. ASEAN countries have been deeply divided over this and, even in the war against terrorism, as has been mentioned by the other speakers, while every country proclaims itself to be against all acts of

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terrorism, one can easily detect that some member countries have not quite got their hand on the handle in dealing with this issue because of their own domestic politics.

Sir, a very serious question has been raised over the past year.

The Chairman: Mr Tan, you have to start winding up your speech, please.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: Yes, Sir.

In fact, the question of ASEAN solidarity has been raised. I would like to ask the Minister therefore whether, in his view, the ASEAN countries now still have the political will to get its act together to meet the challenges ahead, and is there in fact a leadership vacuum to the extent that the organisation is rudderless.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: Sir, some of the most important accords adopted by ASEAN concern political and security issues, such as the 1971 Declaration designating Southeast Asia as a zone of peace, freedom and neutrality; the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia; the Declaration of ASEAN Concord in 1976; and the Southeast Asia Nuclear-Free Zone Treaty of 1995. With the establishment of the ASEAN Regional Forum, ASEAN created a major consultation process and confidence-building mechanism for peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.

Sir, those mechanisms were created in an era when the potential threats to ASEAN came from outside the region, eg, imperialism, war and communism. But in the 21st century, ASEAN's greatest threats come from within, namely, terrorism. It takes the nebulous form of a shadowy network of fanatics who have hijacked a global religion that gives them an endless supply of recruits and allies in

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a war. The Bali bombings in October 2002 exposed Jemaah Islamiyah as a region-wide terrorist network. The subsequent arrest and trials of the perpetrators of the Bali bombings give an illusion of a threat contained. The recent news about Abu Bakar Bashir being released showed how much of an illusion it is.

Sir, our own intelligence has told us that he was the JI's spiritual leader. His impending release has raised a question mark on whether JI will be suddenly energised. It would seem difficult for ASEAN to face the security challenges posed by groups like JI without a coherent regional security plan and without considering long-standing practices, such as non-intervention and non-interference. The threat of terrorism also sharpens attention on a broad spectrum of transnational non-conventional security threats, such as arms trafficking, sea piracy, illegal movement of peoples across borders, and the threat of disruption to shipping and maritime trade - challenges that regional states are increasingly under pressure to address as part of a comprehensive war against terrorism. Given these, I would like to ask the Minister three questions.

First, what can ASEAN do as a regional grouping to stamp out the breeding grounds for terrorism, especially given fresh suspicions that JI could have evolved into small independent operating units?

Second, I would like to echo the questions of my colleagues on what is Singapore's position on the proposal to create an ASEAN Security Community by 2020 which was discussed recently in Vietnam.

Third, whether the ARF could be a good venue to engage ASEAN's partners, especially the US, in giving weight to Southeast Asia in fighting terrorism.

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Dr Warren Lee (Sembawang): Sir, with the advent of bird flu and SARS, the response of countries in the region has been varied. How has this affected relations between ASEAN nations? Have efforts to market the region as a tourist destination been affected? Is the ASEAN mechanism for greater cooperation in the areas of security and intelligence sharing been really effective, given what we have been seeing and reading in the newspapers today? I would like to ask the Minister for his assessment of our relationship with the ASEAN neighbours and his reading of where ASEAN is heading as a regional organisation. I share the concerns of my parliamentary colleagues in this area.

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman (Sembawang): Sir, we heard summits and ministerial meetings in ASEAN are organised every so often, the most recent one being the Bali Summit. Yet, observers have commented that ASEAN has not made much impact, especially in the last five years, in the larger global arena, because each country is dealing with its own set of issues and problems.

Sir, we have heard that diversity is strength and should be capitalised on. How can diversity in ASEAN be converted into opportunities? As a founding member of ASEAN, I would like to ask for the Minister's assessment of Singapore's role in the development of ASEAN, especially with regard to the less developed members of ASEAN. How has ASEAN introspectively assessed the factors that have facilitated or inhibited its development as a region? In this regard, we have heard so much about the political instability in the region in inhibiting its development. How can ASEAN ensure greater political stability in the region for its own good? What are our plans in making ASEAN a more effective grouping?

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ASEAN-EU Relations

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: Sir, two years ago, I raised the question of ASEAN's relationship with the European Union and I then expressed my concern that EU relations with ASEAN appeared to be drifting further apart. At last year's Asia-Europe Meeting of Foreign Ministers, the EU had pledged to invigorate the relationship and to expand the scope of relations. However, I note that at this summit of Foreign Ministers, EU was represented by only three Foreign Ministers out of a possible 15. The other 12 countries were represented by junior officials. So, while there was a lot of rhetoric on the part of the EU people over how close the EU wanted to be with the ASEAN countries, this absence of important Ministers only enforced the perception that the EU places little importance on such meetings with us and, by extension, even less so on the relations with ASEAN countries. The EU also has been cool to Singapore's proposal of a Free Trade Agreement, unlike other countries. It prefers to have a Free Trade Agreement with ASEAN as a bloc. But it has, at the same time, been quick to add that it will not start negotiations for a FTA with ASEAN until the Doha Round of talks within the WTO is completed, and I think that will only take place probably next year.

I would like to ask the Minister, therefore, for his assessment of ASEAN's and Singapore's relations with the EU and how, in his opinion, we can move forward.

Assistance to Other Countries

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, though a small country, Singapore has over the years extended assistance to a number of countries affected by natural disasters as

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well as other countries in need of technical training and assistance. We have also provided peace-keeping missions under UN sponsorship to various countries, like Timor-Leste. We have now reached a certain stage of development.

May I ask if our participation in Timor-Leste makes a difference, for example? Was it worth the tremendous amount of resources deployed by Singapore? Have we done enough for the other less developed countries in South-east Asia? Further, are our assistance and missions welcomed and appreciated by the various countries? I hope that the money we spend and the assistance that we extend will help to enhance the image of Singapore overseas.

[Mdm Deputy Speaker (Mrs Lim Hwee Hua) in the Chair]

4.30 pm

Dr Tan Cheng Bock (Ayer Rajah): I agree with the Chairman of my Committee on what he has said. I would just want to raise one small point. We have been giving assistance to countries. But Singapore has been noted to be very business-like in our dealings and we always expect returns on what we give. This has actually dented our reputation. I am sure that many of this assistance that we have given to the countries, we do not expect them to pay us back. I just want to know from the Minister whether some of these assistance programmes that we have given to the surrounding countries were without any strings attached. This is important because at least Singaporeans will know that we are not so cold.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: I would like to echo the views of my colleagues. I would like to urge our Government to do more to craft a creative public diplomacy

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that conveys more effectively to the world the assistance that we have been giving to many other countries in the various forms, from peacekeeping missions to technical assistance.

Norway is a good example of a country that has a voice and the presence on the international stage through its concentration on a single message - Norway is the force for peace. This reputation gives Norway a greater visibility than its size warrants. Main activities in this field include Norway's large foreign aid budget and its conflict resolution efforts in the Middle East, Sri Lanka and Columbia.

Norway also operates a rapid reaction force to assist in election monitoring and conflict prevention in about 20 countries annually. The Nobel Peace Prize, originating in Oslo, is a historical fact that also raises Norway's profile. In Singapore, we do not have a big budget so we have to be quite prudent. But we do a lot with what we have. We help a lot of countries, but we are not so good at packaging ourselves and conveying our message effectively on how we are - generous within our means.

We need to present much broader dimensions of ourselves and more creative ideas in our diplomacy to win the hearts and minds of states in the world beyond being known for our economic achievement and for our military strength.

I would like to ask the Minister what are the efforts taken to project its good work and image on the international stage.

Technical Cooperation

Dr Warren Lee: Madam, Singapore's technical cooperation programmes have been in existence for many years. We are told that they bring many benefits to recipient countries. But how does

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Singapore benefit from these programmes? I have a different angle from Dr Tan Cheng Bock.

If we train people in port management, air traffic control, town planning and so on, are we giving away our economic advantages? Yes, from time to time, we read of people in other countries wanting to follow the Singapore model of economic development. But, at the end of the day, being a small country and needing to use our resources, as it were, to create economic and political space for ourselves, how does our technical cooperation programme really fulfill these objectives? Are we sure that our schemes are actually attractive to donor countries in this regard? Perhaps, the Minister may want to comment.

Malaysia

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Madam, for the last few years, Singapore-Malaysia relationship has its ups and downs. It was never short of thrills and excitement and we heard much of it in this House. We have the water issue, the Malayan Railway land, Pedra Branca and the crooked bridge.

This is not what we want or desire. We want a stable and positive relationship, a win-win situation, with maximum cooperation on both sides, in trade and investment. And I am glad that the new Malaysian Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Badawi is making a new start and had visited Singapore twice recently.

In this context, I would like to ask the Minister whether Malaysia has come up with any new proposal regarding what the Malaysian Prime Minister called "low-lying fruits" and what is Singapore's position on these new overtures. Can we do more to speed up the process?

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Mr Ravindran: Madam, I share the same concern as the Chairman of the GPC and I would like the Minister to explain the queries raised by the GPC Chairman.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: The relationship between the political leaders of Malaysia and Singapore this time of the year has improved very much since last year when we last sat. While we welcome the warmer ties, we are also alive to the fact that things can change, especially if these good vibes are not nurtured at the different levels and grounded on principles of mutual respect and equality. But it is good to note that since ties have improved, more business deals have been struck between Singapore and Malaysia, and the clearer sign of this is that Temasek Holdings has been allowed to take a stake of slightly more than 5% in Malaysia's Telecom, its first purchase across the Causeway. And now came the good news about football. It will not be the Malaysia Cup but, at least, we will be playing against each other in good sporting spirit. It is better to be kicking a ball in the field and cheering away in good spirits than to engage in political football that can be destructive.

Madam, we should use this window of opportunity to build better trust and understanding between Singaporeans and Malaysians at the different levels, not only at the political and Ministerial levels, but also at the backbencher level. Perhaps, we could exchange teams and have discussions amongst ourselves, at the civil society level and also at the people-to-people level. This is a good time for us to seize the moment, create better understanding and trust.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Madam, I would like to speak on the economic union with Malaysia which I advocate.

When the Prime Minister of Malaysia had a meeting with our Ministers on 12th

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January this year, he said that he preferred to talk to Singapore on specific issues. He wants time to prepare the specific issues that he shall be talking to Singapore at the next meeting. On our end, Singapore should talk to the Malaysians on the issue of the possibility of forming an economic union or signing an FTA agreement with them.

Singapore has signed FTA agreements with America and New Zealand and is also negotiating to do so with other countries. Of all the FTAs, to me, the most obvious one is to sign one with Malaysia. Malaysia is our immediate neighbour and Malaysia is our second largest trading partner. I think there is nothing wrong with forming an economic union with Malaysia before the 2017 arrangement of the ASEAN Economic Community. The benefits of an economic union with Malaysia are tremendous. For a start, we shall have a market of over 23 million people and our export business shall boom and much of our present economic stagnation can be solved. The benefits are a lot and I would like to urge our Minister to make strong efforts to have an economic union with Malaysia.

Mr Sin Boon Ann: Madam, during the recent Chinese New Year celebrations, Singapore and Malaysian leaders showed a high level of goodwill on both sides. This is a welcome development as I am sure we would rather much prefer that both sides spend their energy focusing on the positive rather than the negative aspects of their relationships.

There is much that both Singapore and Malaysia can benefit from closer cooperation than intense competition. The interests that both countries share, as we have said many times before in this House, need not be mutually exclusive. It is not a zero sum game, but one which

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we can bring about a win-win situation for the two countries.

Since the last update in this House on the progress of the various issues that we have with Malaysia, I would like to ask the Minister whether there has been any further progress on our on-going talks with Malaysia; for example, whether we have plucked any fruits yet and whether there is any real basis for hope that the new leadership in Malaysia will signal the dawn of a new beginning between the two countries.

Dr Warren Lee: Madam, Malaysia is our closest neighbour and I share the concerns that have been expressed by other hon. Members of the House about how our relationships with our closest neighbour are going along.

But while it is appropriate to speak of relations on a government-to-government basis with more forefront countries in ASEAN and in the world, we may need to see our relations with Malaysia because of its close proximity. It is not just the question of promoting relations with government-to-government or even people-to-people in a sort of amorphous sense, but realising that actually the people of East Malaysia, Terengganu, Kedah, Klang Valley and the people of the southern Peninsular Malaysia may actually have different views and attitudes about their closest neighbour, Singapore.

How does the Minister see this set of relationships? Do we not feel that good feelings among the people in the various regions would be to our advantage? Down at the ground, and given that the various regions of Malaysia have their own peculiar local government politics as well, do our neighbouring people share our view that Singapore has a prosper-thy-neighbour approach to business? Or do they believe the line that we are trying to beggar our neighbour? I believe that as

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the independence generation moves on, and younger people come to power, it becomes so much more important for the relationships between the two people to be revisited, that all bonds be renewed and new bonds forged, perhaps without the baggage of the past, but certainly with better hope and understanding for the future.

People might agree with me that sometimes Singaporeans are very familiar with countries and cities far away from Singapore, but we may be guilty of not being very familiar with the places nearby. Of course, if we are made more welcome, and we feel more welcome, we might also visit more. Would the Minister comment on this?

Indonesia

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Madam, Singapore has excellent relationship with Indonesia under President Suharto. After Suharto, Singapore has to deal with a series of Presidents from Habibie to Gus Dur to Megawati. And now, Indonesia has another presidential election.

I wish to ask the Minister whether our relationship with Indonesia under President Megawati is significantly better than that under Gus Dur. Further, whether Singapore has broadened its relationship base so that our state of relationship will not be so dependent on who is in power at the presidential palace.

In times of controversy and crisis, a broad-based relationship will provide a balance and serve us better. We should therefore cultivate and nurture relationship across the board, for example, with parliamentarians, cultural activists, religious leaders, captains of industries, professors and editors.

4.45 pm

Secondly, Indonesia has time and again complained about the release of

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statistics on trade between Indonesia and Singapore. Has this issue been resolved?

Then there is the issue of sand export to Singapore. Indonesia has claimed that Singapore is not cooperative on this. May I ask the Minister on the latest on the export of sand to Singapore.

Mr Sin Boon Ann: Madam, like Malaysia, Indonesia is a close neighbour of ours and we have had the good fortune of maintaining close ties with the Indonesian Government over the years. This strong foundation, which was laid by Mr Suharto, has helped us to continue with our close exchanges during the period of political transition. However, as with the concern expressed by my colleague and Chairman of the GPC, I know that a number of issues have surfaced in recent times which have put our ties to the test. And, sharing the sentiments of my colleagues here, I would just like to reiterate my concern relating to the supply of sand and also the dispute over trade statistics that we have with the Indonesians.

I would like to ask the Minister how far we have progressed in our discussions on these issues with the Indonesian Government and also whether or not more can be done to strengthen the ties between our two countries.

Mr Ravindran: Madam, there are many outstanding issues between Singapore and Indonesia, which are still outstanding. I am quite sure that with the coming election, some of these issues may be raised as part of the campaign process there. One of the key things that I think is emerging in Indonesia over the past five years and which will be a recurrent pattern in Indonesia is that there will be many political players and many influential people who will interfere in Singapore-Indonesia relations. For a start, the President, the Ministers, political parties, religious leaders, parliament, local

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governments, the military and even the business community would want to have a say in these bilateral matters.

I would like to ask the Minister on how Singapore intends to engage Indonesia amidst the fact that there will be so many players wanting to have a say in these matters. And, also I would like the Minister's input on how he sees the changes that may take place arising from a resurgence of the Islamic parties in the election which will take place next month. I would also like to ask the Minister on how Singapore intends to engage Indonesia, both at the bilateral level and at the ASEAN level, in ensuring security for the region and also in the area of checking terrorism in the region.

Brunei

Dr Warren Lee: Madam, Brunei and Singapore have had a long and fruitful relationship. We have also had very strong defence ties through the years and, in fact, even now many of our servicemen go there to train. I would like to ask the Minister in what other ways can our relationship with Brunei be improved? Are there any other ways in which our economic cooperation can be improved, even when oil runs out, for example? How can the leadership of both countries continue to engage and how can we continue to make our point of view heard and noted?

Myanmar ****

Mr Ravindran: Madam, I would like to ask the Minister as to the state of relations between Singapore and Myanmar. In particular, I would like to ask the Minister as to what is happening with regard to the road map that was proposed by Thailand, in order to set the path of change for Myanmar? And, in the light of Myanmar, the chairmanship of

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ASEAN next year, how will it impact relations between ASEAN and Myanmar, vis-a-vis the EU and the Americans?

Foreign Relations

Mr Chandra Mohan K Nair: Madam, in terms of foreign relations, Singapore has conducted itself quite well as a friendly nation with our neighbours in ASEAN and in the eyes of the United Nations and the world at large. The only problem, although it may not be a major one, seems to be with Malaysia, over a few issues that have been pending for some time. As the hon. Minister has indicated, this can happen with friendly neighbours. We hope that, with the new Prime Minister, Abdullah Badawi, this problem would be minimised, if not resolved completely.

As an observation, Madam, it is important that personalities play a secondary role in the merits of our respective cases and also the give-and-take attitude to come to an amicable settlement. It is important that what we have seen in our case with Malaysia, because of the relationship perhaps between the personalities at the helm, some problems have been created. I hope things will improve with the new Prime Minister of Malaysia, coming out with the friendly relations that we have now and I hope positive results would be forthcoming as soon as possible.

I would like to ask the Hon. Minister if there are time-lines which both Malaysia and Singapore have agreed upon to resolve outstanding issues like water supply, railway matter, Malaysian rights to the raillway properties, the CPF issue, etc, because these do affect citizens of both countries.

I would also like to enquire what are our foreign relations policies with regard to countries other than ASEAN? For instance, countries in West Asian

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countries, Arabian countries, African, South American, East European and Central American nations. It might not have been a priority in the last two or three decades, but I think as the years go by, it would be more and more important as these emerging nations do come to the forefront. I think it is good to build relations now for our future generation of citizens. Is there greater involvement with countries in these regions? Do we have ambassadors, roving ambassadors, charge d'affaires, with these countries? If not, why not? If not, do we see a positive move towards increasing the involvment with these other nations? Perhaps we should also consider having exchange programmes with these countries, between civil servants, parliamentarians, university scholars, students and also civil society groups and government-related agencies.

Japan

Mr Sin Boon Ann: Madam, we have enjoyed close ties and cooperation with Japan over many decades since independence. We are mindful that the Japanese MNCs were early investors in Singapore and have helped transformed Singapore into what it is today. Japan is also one of the first countries that have concluded an FTA with us, which we believe will begin a new chapter in our bilateral ties. It has been a year since we signed the FTA with Japan and, I am sure there are many issues that the two Governments have yet to iron out. I would like to ask the Minister if he could give us an update of how the FTA is working out, thus far, and whether there are outstanding issues to-date. And, if so, what these issues are.

Separately, I also know that the number of Japanese arrivals in Singapore has fallen in recent times and this has affected our tourism industry somewhat. In order to attract more Japanese tourists to Singapore, our Government should

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perhaps look into new initiatives. Recently I had lunch with a Japanese diplomat in my capacity as the Embassy's Legal Counsel in Singapore. Over lunch, he told me that Japan has tied up working holiday programmes with several countries. This allows young Japanese to travel to foreign places on working holiday trips, which can last between six months and a year. Japanese travelling in such countries get special visas to work. The Japanese Government felt that this is a good exposure for the Japanese because it gives the Japanese a better opportunity to understand their host culture better at close quarters. This will help to strengthen the bonds between the two countries on a people-to-people basis. Equally, countries that have concluded such treaties would also be able to have their young people go over to Japan to work and stay for a limited duration. This will also give them an opportunity to understand Japanese people and culture better.

We do not have such an arrangement with Japan at the moment, but I thought it would be good if the two countries can have one. I would like to ask if the Ministry would consider such an arrangement with Japan.

Middle East

Dr Warren Lee: Madam, recently our Prime Minister led a delegation to countries in the Middle East, which included Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, with a short stop-over in Dubai. I would like to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs for his assessment on how he feels that we can improve our relationships with the countries from this region. In what ways can we learn from them? In what ways can we further engage their scholars and the people in the civil societies on issues of mutual interest, eg, issues that affect our Muslim community? Are there also opportunities that we can learn from them in the area of trade? For example, I note

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that Bahrain and Dubai appear to be really after wealth management of wealthy overseas Indians. Perhaps we could learn something from these countries with regard to wealth management activities as well. Does the Minister feel that there may be further opportunities for free trade or other trade agreements? Does the Minister feel that there may be opportunities to upgrade further our diplomatic presence in the region?

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: Madam, Islam has been the focus of much media attention since September 11 and the subsequent terror-related events in this region as well as elsewhere. The perception of non-Muslims about Muslims was affected the world over. Middle East, for some time known as the Arab world, is seen with caution. At home, we established the IRCC to facilitate greater understanding and appreciation of diversity to counter any possible threats to our inter-ethnic relations. Opportunities for inter-ethnic interactions were enhanced to increase familiarity and expand their comfort zones.

Madam, from the global perspective, relationship between countries and the Arab world is similar. The nature of this relationship will send a message on the way Islam and the Muslim world is being perceived by the other parts of the world. Greater opportunities must be created for more interactions with the Arab world. Madam, this message will subsequently trickle down to the people in their respective countries.

In Singapore, a stronger relationship with the Middle East sends a clear message to Singaporeans, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, that we must delink Islam from terrorism. Madam, PM's recent visit to the Middle East is indeed encouraging, as we not only saw the significant economic potential of the

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Middle East for mutual cooperation and growth, it also signals to Singaporeans that we are comfortable in working with the Muslim world. It will provide opportunities for Singaporean businesses to feel comfortable in the Muslim world and conduct businesses there.

Madam, in this regard, I would like to ask the Minister on the status of Singapore's relationship with the Middle East. Apart from economic cooperation with the region, what are the other areas of cooperation that we can establish with the region? Essentially, Madam, following PM's visit there, where do we go from here? I am confident that the benefits that we can reap will be mutual, ie, Singaporeans will know more about the Muslim world and the latter will be more connected to secular societies like Singapore, thus enhancing appreciation for diversity in values and lifestyles and, in the same vein, reducing apprehensions and suspicions.

Piracy in the Malacca Straits

Mr Sin Boon Ann: Madam, ASEAN governments have a moral duty, as well as economic interest, in safeguarding the safety and security of our sea lanes and, in particular, the Malacca Straits. Ships plying in the region are our life-blood and they continue to underpin the region's economic foundation. Lately, there have been several reports of increasing number of incidents of piracy in the region. Last year, there were 445 cases of piracy reported, up from 370 cases reported in 2002. It is with concern that I note that Southeast Asia has acquired a notorious reputation of being one of the most dangerous places for commercial shipping. I note that the Singapore Government has stepped up security measures to combat piracy in the region. The formation of a high-level task force to boost maritime security evidently demonstrates this commitment. This is very assuring for Singaporeans indeed and also for the

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shipping industry. However, we all know that the efforts to combat piracy are not just the Singapore Government's alone, but also the collective efforts of the ASEAN governments.

I would like to ask the Minister whether greater efforts have been made towards getting the regional governments to work closely to deal with this problem once and for all. And if efforts have been made, would the Ministry give us an idea of the plans that have been put in place to deal with the problem?

Prof. Jayakumar: Madam, I want to thank the speakers who have made many observations and questions on so many countries. Mr Chandra Mohan wants us to increase our linkages with other countries and asked how many ambassadors, and consuls we have. If you look at the United Nations' list there are some 180 countries in the world. It is physically not possible for a small country like Singapore to have embassies and representatives in every country. So we have to improvise. In some places, we cover with non-resident Ambassadors from Singapore . In some places, we have to use honorary Consuls. In some places, we do not have any representative at all. But it does not mean that we do not try to reach out to them, either through visits or receiving visits from them, or working with their Ambassadors who may be accredited to us. So, it requires quite a lot of imaginative ways to create space for us in our foreign relations, and we will continue to do so.

5.00 pm

Madam, with your permission, I would like to answer and reply to colleagues in the House who have asked about ASEAN. Thereafter, my colleague, Minister of State Raymond Lim, will answer on the questions about technical assistance and assistance to other countries. Again, with your permission, I would like the floor

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again to answer on Malaysia and Indonesia . Thereafter, my colleague, the Second Minister will answer the remaining comments.

On ASEAN, Dr Ong Chit Chung asked: is ASEAN a lame duck? In my view, it is not a lame duck. But it is true that last year had been a very difficult year for ASEAN when it was buffeted by so many challenges - the war in Iraq , terrorist threats, the SARS outbreak and, more recently, the Avian flu. But despite these daunting challenges, I believe ASEAN has worked quite well and responded in a decisive and determined way.

We also recently had a retreat of Foreign Ministers. This retreat, for Members' benefit, is unlike other ASEAN meetings, it is just the Ministers only without officials plus the ASEAN Secretary-General. So, it enables us to have very frank and candid discussions. The concept of a retreat was, in fact, started by Singapore some time ago. And we had a very frank discussion on a wide variety of ongoing ASEAN projects.

I say that ASEAN is not a lame duck, and ASEAN has worked together, because it continues to be focused on two important tasks. One is closer integration and the second is enhancing our linkages with external players. Both of these are areas where Members have spoken on.

Why do I say that we have worked well? Mr Tan Soo Khoon asked a pertinent question - whether we have got our act together or is ASEAN still drifting aimlessly. There are two important accomplishments of ASEAN in the last year which give me hope and make me confident in saying that ASEAN is showing some resolve in tackling its problems. One is the way in which ASEAN responded to terrorism, and that is the point which Ms Irene Ng has asked. And the other is the way in which ASEAN dealt with SARS and, more recently, the

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Avian flu. This showed ASEAN has worked well and responded in a decisive and determined manner.

First, let me take terrorism. At the 9th ASEAN Summit in Bali on 7th October 2003 , ASEAN leaders agreed to continue to undertake and build on specific measures outlined in the ASEAN Declaration on Joint Action to Counter Terrorism, which was adopted in Brunei in November 2001. ASEAN also intensified its efforts to prevent, counter and suppress the activities of terrorist groups in the region. ASEAN also underlined the need to maintain practical cooperative measures among itself and with the international community.

Ms Irene Ng asked about the ARF, whether it has a role in counter terrorism. ASEAN's efforts are strongly supplemented by ongoing cooperation within ASEAN Regional Forum. ARF has had a series of practical workshops allowing ARF members to exchange best practices in various sub-fields of counter terrorism, such as measures against terrorist financing, prevention of terrorism, measures for major international events, border controls and responses to chemical/biological/radiological attacks. I will not under-estimate the importance of these, because some ARF countries have got the skills, experience, and knowledge than other ASEAN countries.

The ASEAN Home and Interior Ministers also had their Special Meeting on Transnational Crime and Terrorism in May 2002 and decided on concrete measures centred on enhancing practical cooperation among our law enforcement and security agencies, including sharing of intelligence, technical expertise and best practices. There was also a follow-up meeting on Transnational Crime in Bangkok in January 2004 where we

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signed the ASEAN-China MOU on Cooperation in the Field of Non-Traditional Security Issues. The ASEAN-India Joint Declaration for Cooperation to Combat International Terrorism was adopted at the Bali Summit in October 2003.

I believe that the practical cooperation between countries is the most effective means of achieving tangible progress in countering terrorism. The question was asked: are all these conferences, accords and agreements all just meaningless documents? If I have to be honest, I cannot guarantee that these documents will lead to practical action. But they are important in the sense that they enable the Home Ministers and officials to meet and discuss key information and how to get their enforcement agencies to cooperate. And this is very important because we are dealing with a new area where agencies have not had the habit of regional meetings. But, in the end, in reply to Ms Irene Ng, let me say that the nature of international terrorism itself ,although we have these ASEAN and regional meetings and declarations, is such that international cooperation will be meaningless unless every country shows political will and resolve to take the necessary action within their countries. So, there are two sides of it. On the one hand, each country cannot combat terrorism on its own without international cooperation; on the other hand, it is equally true that international cooperation is premised on each country taking the necessary steps within its borders.

Ms Irene Ng and Dr Ong Chit Chung talked about the recent news of the reduction by an Indonesian court's verdict on Abu Bakar Bashir. I have to say that we are disappointed with the Indonesian Supreme Court's decision as reported in the media. Despite the Court's decision, it is our hope that the Indonesian government will continue to take strong action against the terrorist groups.

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In the area of SARS, ASEAN had acted particularly well. ASEAN speedily coordinated a regional response by convening the Special ASEAN Leaders' Meeting on SARS attended by all 10 ASEAN leaders. In fact, since 1967, it was the first occasion when the leaders in the region have come together to address a serious regional health threat. They adopted a Joint Declaration spelling out concrete measures to combat SARS such as early warning systems, pre-screening at airports, information sharing and joint epidemiological surveillance activities. ASEAN Health Ministers then quickly followed up to implement what the Leaders had decided.

Dr Warren Lee asked about the Avian flu. Similarly, with the emergence of the Avian flu, ASEAN Health Ministers and officials had come together again in Bangkok in January to share information and identify joint cooperative efforts to address the outbreak of the Avian flu. Separately, an ASEAN-China Forum held in Beijing in early March to address the same problem.

We cannot preclude the possibility of the emergence of new diseases such as SARS and Avian flu. We cannot afford to let our guard down. ASEAN countries will continue to take a common approach to such regional problems that recognise no boundaries.

Several Members have asked about the future directions and agenda of ASEAN. Apart from terrorism and SARS, I would say that ASEAN continues to be focused on two important tasks. One important task is to achieve deeper integration between the older and newer ASEAN members. The second is to continue to strengthen ASEAN's linkages with key external players.

Let me first address the task of closer integration. ASEAN countries have

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realised that in an increasingly globalised world, we need to remain engaged and stay ahead of the curve. How are we to do this? Obviously, ASEAN needs to get our act together to stay unified and focussed on the approaches we need to take.

The Initiative for ASEAN Integration, Prime Minister Goh's initiative, has now become the key to achieve deeper integration between the older and newer ASEAN members. More will be said about what is done on technical assistance when my colleague, Mr Raymond Lim, addresses the issue.

On economic competitiveness, ASEAN has realised that we have to be competitive. The ASEAN Summit in Bali , as Mr Tan Soo Khoon mentioned, adopted Bali Concord II, which sets out three key pillars for ASEAN's move towards the ASEAN Vision 2020: (1) the ASEAN Economic Community; (2) ASEAN Security Community; and, (3) the ASEAN Socio-Cultural Community.

On the ASEAN Economic Community, Mr Tan Soo Khoon asked whether this would be only rhetoric. I think it is more than rhetoric. Because I have attended many FMs' meetings and, last year, was the first time the Foreign Ministers asked the consultants for ASEAN, McKensey, to attend the meeting and to give them a briefing on what ASEAN needs to do to stay competitive. In fact, not just the Economic Ministers' Meeting, but also the Foreign Ministers' Meeting. I think it was fairly unprecedented.

The ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) is a critical part of ASEAN's push towards greater economic integration. The aim is to create a single market and production space where there is free flow of goods, services, investments, capital and skilled labour. When realised, the

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AEC will make for a more competitive and dynamic ASEAN economic region.

5.15 pm

AEC's first step is to further strengthen its current economic measures in the area of trade, goods and services. This includes putting in place a clear and definite work programme for the removal of all non-tariff trade barriers and establishing a non-politicised and legally-binding dispute settlement mechanism which will promote greater certainty and predictability in ASEAN's business environment.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon also mentioned the "2+X" proposal. It is a Thai and Singapore innovation whereby ASEAN countries which are ready to liberalise certain sectors can do so bilaterally, without waiting for the others who can join in later. For example, the Cargo Open Skies Agreement signed on 25th February by Singapore , Thailand and Brunei .

Mr Tan Soo Khoon posed a question as to whether this will be divisive for ASEAN. I think it will be divisive for ASEAN if others are excluded. But what this means is that you do not have to wait for everybody to be ready. Because if you are going to wait for everybody to be ready, then you will not have rapid movement. This way, countries who are ready can sign the accord but is open to others who can come on when they are ready. This approach is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. A series of "2+X" knitted together will increase the pace of ASEAN economic integration.

On ASEAN Security Community, which Ms Irene Ng asked about, let me say that the ASC's intention is to bring about ASEAN's political and security cooperation to a higher plane to ensure that the countries in the region live at

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peace with one another and with the world at large in a harmonious environment.

Our clear understanding of ASC is that ASEAN countries adhere to the principles of non-intervention and the ability of each country to pursue its own foreign policy and defence policy. ASC is not intended to change the character of ASEAN which is not a defence or security organisation.

We welcome Indonesia 's Plan of Action for the ASC which was discussed at the recent retreat. Indonesia 's Plan of Action contains bold and imaginative ideas on the ASC. However, we need to proceed in gradual steps, starting with the doable short-term projects before progressing to the more difficult or ambitious ideals. For example, on the ASEAN Peacekeeping Force idea, our view - shared by most other countries in ASEAN - is that for the time being, the peacekeeping force is probably not the right time - precisely because ASEAN is not a defence or security organisation.

The ASC is a generally good and timely idea. It reflects a certain comfort level within ASEAN and comes at a time when ASEAN needs to rethink its role in the wider regional community. Together with the two other pillars- ASEAN Economic Community and ASEAN Socio-Cultural Community - the ASC will complete the picture for ASEAN integration process.

Dr Ong Chit Chung asked about the new ASEAN Secretary General, Mr Ong Keng Yong. I wish to stress that Mr Ong Keng Yong now is wearing a regional hat, and not a Singaporean hat. But I believe that he has helped to move ASEAN forward. His appointment comes at a time when the workload at ASEAN Secretariat has expanded a lot. It is a challenging task, but he has been very active and has put in place many measures to streamline the organisation.

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On ASEAN's external linkages, asked by Mr Ravindran and others, this is the other area where it has to be remained focused. We cannot be inward-looking. And here, we have achieved considerable progress. Let me list a few. Last year, India acceded to the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation. ASEAN and Russia had signed a Joint Declaration on Partnership for Peace, Security and Stability. Our closer economic partnerships with China and Japan have sparked off similar interest by many other countries. China is negotiating an FTA with ASEAN and Japan has signed a framework agreement on CEP. The United States is taking its first steps towards the possibility of FTAs with ASEAN members, through its Enterprise for ASEAN Initiative or EAI. EU is keen to strengthen its ties with ASEAN through the Trans-Regional EU-ASEAN Trade Initiative or TREATI, which seeks to remove non-tariff barriers. South Korea recently announced its interest to explore closer economic cooperation, including the possibility of an ASEAN-ROK FTA. And our relations with China , Japan , Korea under the Plus 3 relationship have also considerably improved in substance.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon asked about ASEAN-EU relations. He is right that at the last ASEAN-EU Foreign Ministers' Meeting, there were not many full Ministers in attendance. So his question was whether this means that the EU does not take the ASEAN-EU relationship seriously. I would not immediately jump to that conclusion because the EU Foreign Ministers explained to us their scheduling problems, the amount of meetings they have to attend. I am prepared to take their explanations in good faith. We have to wait for one or two meetings and see how it goes. ASEAN takes these meetings seriously, we have to impress on the Europeans to take these meetings seriously. There are some issues that continue to bedevil ASEAN-EU relationship, such as Myanmar . Our point

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to them is that they should not hold this important relationship, which is a long standing dialogue relationship, hostage to one issue. At the last ASEAN-EU Foreign Ministers' Meeting held in Brussels last year, the Europeans were agreeable to Myanmar being represented by its Deputy Foreign Minister. We will continue to engage with the Europeans because the relationship with the Europeans is one of the important dialogue relationships which ASEAN has.

Madam, with your permission, I will ask Mr Raymond Lim to answer on technical assistance.

The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr Raymond Lim Siang Keat): Madam, I would like to thank Members for their comments and helpful suggestions on our assistance programmes to other countries. Dr Tan Cheng Bock made the point that there is a perception that when we deal with other countries, we do so in a business-like fashion. And he is quite right that against that is the fact that we do, despite our small size, actively seek to help developing countries in ways which concentrate on human resource development, with no strings attached. Let me give you some numbers.

Since 1992, when the Singapore Cooperation Programme was initiated, 28,000 officials from 152 countries have benefited from Singapore Cooperation Programme. These are not small numbers. And for a small country like Singapore, this is really no mean feat. And we go beyond that. We also provide customised courses to some of these recipient countries. They have specific needs, they tell us, could we do a particular course for them, and if we can, we tailor-make it for them and provide the course. Indonesia, for instance, has been the recipient of customised courses in housing, accountability management and capacity building.

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Our approach, given our finite resources, is that while we reach out to all developing countries, we pay special attention to our ASEAN neighbours. Our commitment to ASEAN is demonstrated by the fact that last year, 54% of participants (2,812) came from ASEAN member countries.

We have chosen to focus our assistance on ASEAN for obvious reasons. We are an integral part of this community and should look first to see what we can do for our neighbours. This is why Singapore has been very active in helping the newer ASEAN countries, Cambodia , Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam , close the development gap with the older members.

Our flagship programme here is the Initiative for ASEAN Integration. Projects include the Singapore Scholarships where we give bright students from ASEAN scholarships in our local universities and after which they return home to contribute to their home country. We have also set up training centres in the CLMV countries and special programmes to train instructors in education and IT so that they, in turn, can train their own people.

Dr Ong Chit Chung has asked about the role we played in Timor Leste. Singapore has been and continues to be firmly committed to helping Timor Leste address their security and development concerns, bilaterally and through the United Nations.

We have been active on the bilateral front with Timor Leste. Under the Singapore Cooperation Programme, we have trained their officials in a wide range of development fields. In July 2003, our Foreign Ministry sent a training team, comprising serving and retired Foreign Service Officers to share their experiences with Timor Leste government.

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From the start, we have been a firm advocate of a strong UN presence in the country and against a precipitate withdrawal of the UN as this may destabilise the new country. This is why Singapore peacekeepers have served in Timor Leste under the auspices of the United Nations since 1999. In addition, a Singapore an, Major General Tan Huck Gim, became the Force Commander of the 4,000 strong UN Mission of Support in East Timor (UNMISET) from August 2002 to August 2003. Recently, Singapore strongly supported the UN Secretary General's recommendation to the UNSC - United Nations Security Council - that UNMISET be extended for another year.

Timor Leste, todate, has been rightly described as one of the UN's success stories. The world's youngest nation has certainly come a long way. Tribute must be paid to the people of Timor Leste and its leaders who have done a very admirable job. The United Nations has also played a critical role here. We are proud that Singapore has played a part in Timor Leste's reconstruction and development.

Finally, Ms Irene Ng said that we should do more in creative public diplomacy. I agree with her that we should do more in publicising our efforts. Besides involving our local and foreign media when important assistance events take place, we also have a newsletter Experience Singapore that publicises our technical cooperation programme as well as Singaporeans who have made personal efforts to help developing countries. Experience Singapore has a circulation of 22,000 and is distributed to foreign government officials and international organisations in over 150 countries. In 2002, we featured an article on a Dr Wong Ting Hway, who was the first Singaporean to work full-time with the International Committee of the Red Cross. From time to time, we also feature SIF's Singapore Volunteers Overseas. Last year,

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we highlighted Ms Wong Yim Kuan, a retired school principal, who had spent a year teaching English in Vietianne, Laos.

Madam, properly managed, such publicity will enhance a positive image of Singapore, help us win friends abroad and just as important make Singaporeans proud of their country and fellow citizens.

Prof. Jayakumar: Madam, may I respond to Members who spoke on Indonesia and Malaysia . If I may, first, state Singapore-Indonesia relations. We attach great importance to our relationship with Indonesia . We have good relations with its leadership. Indonesia is one of Singapore 's closest neighbours and a major trading partner and is also strategically important to the region.

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Since last year, several exchanges of visits have taken place. Prime Minister Goh met President Megawati in Batam on 4th August 2003 at the launch of the South Sumatra-Singapore natural gas pipeline. Deputy Prime Minister Tony Tan visited Jakarta last December. More recently, Deputy Prime Minister Lee visited Jakarta from 26-28 January 2004. There have also been interactions by officials at various levels. Singapore hosted the 3rd MFA-DEPLU Dialogue last August, and Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda made a visit to Singapore on 11th September 2003.

In answer to Mr Ravindran's question, yes, we do not just deal with the Jakarta government. Of course, in government-to-government relations, we have to. But we also have good contacts with journalists and parliamentarians who have come over, and also we have invited the leaders of the provinces to visit Singapore . Overall, the bilateral relationship is good and was affirmed by President Megawati when she met DPM

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Lee on 26th January 2004 and said that "there are no problems" on the bilateral front. Of course, as with any two neighbouring countries, there will always be outstanding bilateral issues that need to be resolved by both sides.

Both leaders have agreed that Indonesia and Singapore should form a Joint Cooperation Council (JCC), a ministerial level forum, which will discuss both outstanding bilateral issues and areas of cooperation. This JCC will enable both sides to continue to explore areas for mutually-beneficial cooperation. The JCC will strengthen institutional linkages and enhance understanding between Singapore and Indonesia . Officials from both sides are now discussing the details of the JCC.

Dr Ong Chit Chung asked about the trade statistics issue. Singapore published bilateral trade statistics between Singapore and Indonesia for the first time in January 2004. Prior to this, Singapore handed over trade statistics to the Indonesian government annually, in accordance with an agreement made in 1974 between the leaders of both sides. That was to avoid misunderstandings over the figures, as Indonesia and Singapore have different methods of compiling trade statistics. We told the Indonesians that we would have no problem if Indonesia chose to publish the statistics that we handed to them. And since 1974, Indonesia has chosen not to do so.

Last year, the Indonesian government asked to end the 1974 agreement and asked Singapore to publicly release Singapore-Indonesia trade statistics. Our agencies are currently in the process of putting in place the appropriate systems and procedures to enable us to eventually publish Singapore-Indonesia statistics on the same basis as we do for trade statistics with other countries and in line with international requirements. This will take some time, about two years. In the

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interim, we decided to publish the Singapore-Indonesia trade statistics in its present form that we have been routinely handing over to the Indonesian government all these years. Indonesian Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda welcomed this when he said: "I think the Singaporean decision is excellent as we can now start to remedy the discrepancies."

The issue of trade statistics and discrepancies is part and parcel of normal relations between neighbours, and will be remedied over time.

Members also asked about the sand issue. Madam, the Indonesian ban on the export of sand to Singapore , imposed in February last year, remains in force. However, the question of Singapore being "not cooperative" on the sand issue does not arise at all. As we have conveyed to the Indonesians, the Singapore Government is not involved in the sourcing and trading of sand. Sourcing is carried out by contractors on a purely commercial basis. We leave it to our contractors to source for sand from where it is available, on the basis of commercial viability. These contractors are also expected to comply with the laws of the countries they source sand from.

Those who have accused Singapore on the sand issue have so far not furnished evidence that the sand from Indonesia has been smuggled in. Singapore does not condone the smuggling of any commodity. Our authorities will investigate possible instances thoroughly, if there is credible and timely evidence provided. But Singapore , on the other hand, cannot be expected to carry out the Customs work of another country.

Mr Ravindran also asked about the levels of cooperation with Indonesia on

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terrorism. But, as we have heard in my answers on ASEAN, we do it on both bilateral fronts with countries as well as in regional and international framework.

On Malaysia , many Members were very keen to know what has happened since I last briefed them, whether there have been proposals, whether the "low hanging fruits" have been plucked, and so on. I will not go into details to recap what I have told this House except to say that the atmospherics have improved as a result of the exchanges of visits recently. You all know that our preference was for the outstanding issues to be resolved through third party arbitration or adjudication. PM Abdullah preferred to give it another go and PM Goh agreed, but both understood that if this attempt did not succeed, then they will have to refer these to third parties. The understanding was that Malaysia , Prime Minister Abdullah would present new proposals direct to Prime Minister Goh. We have not yet received these proposals but, as you know, they are in the midst of elections and the position is that we will now wait for the proposals to come and when the proposals come, we will, of course, study them. That is where matters stand at present.

Meanwhile, the atmospherics in our relations continue to improve. Ministers on both sides have exchanged visits. Minister Wong Kan Seng and Minister Mah Bow Tan, and the Malaysian Minister for Culture, Arts and Tourism have exchanged visits. The Malaysian Foreign Ministry has informed us that they want to resume the Wisma Putra-MFA games, and they are going to fix a date soon. These games were scheduled to be held sometime ago but had been called off.

Dr Warren Lee made the point about whether the local people in various parts of Malaysia are familiar with Singapore 's attitudes and whether Singaporeans should travel more and so on. I was not

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sure what is his specific proposal, but I am all in favour of greater people-to-people relationships, including contacts by Members of Parliament. And I do not think that Members of Parliament have to wait for a formal invitation from the other side. I would encourage such exchanges and visits at all levels, both parliamentary, Ministry officials as well as non-governmental organisations and businesses.

On economic union, Madam, may I have your permission to call on Mr Raymond Lim to answer Mr Chiam See Tong's questions.

Mr Raymond Lim Siang Keat: Madam, Mr Chiam See Tong mentioned the free trade area and economic union in the same breath. But they are not quite the same thing; they are quite different animals. On the economic union, like he said, this is not new. This is something that he has brought up before, and Prime Minister Goh and Prof. Jayakumar had answered him on previous occasions.

There is some economic logic to this - there are benefits, like efficiency gains, from economic union. Mr Chiam mentioned one. He said we will have a larger market. That is quite right. But against that, there are certain costs and obligations involved in an economic union. The key matter to consider when we have an economic union is that it involves the harmonisation of our fiscal, monetary and trade policies. Let me give you an example of the implications. You tend to lose economic flexibility in terms of policies.

The two economies, Malaysia and Singapore, in terms of economic structure, are not quite the same. If, supposing, today you have a global commodities shock, and that the Malaysian economy goes on a slowdown, and the Malaysian government feels that it needs to ease up on monetary policy, it

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might actually create inflationary pressures in Singapore, because we might be at the other end of the business cycle. So, these are important considerations when it comes to economic union. It is a very significant undertaking and, if we were to do it, we need very careful studies.

Mr Chiam also brought up free trade agreements. As I said, he used them almost interchangeably, but actually they are quite different. So far, we have sought to pursue a free-trade agreement, a free trade area, with Malaysia, within the context of ASEAN. There is, in terms of the goods sector, an ASEAN Free Trade Agreement; services sector, an ASEAN Framework Agreement for Services; and an ASEAN Investment Area (AIA) in terms of investments. In a bilateral free trade agreement with Malaysia, the key difference then would be acceleration in these areas.

But within the ASEAN context that is now being addressed, and as Prof. Jayakumar mentioned just now, it will be on a "2+X" principle, which means that any two ASEAN countries, if they are ready to move, and ready to move faster than the rest, they can do so. They can liberalise, say, the services sector faster, if they both agree.

Madam, I would say that, ultimately, the exact form of closer economic integration between Malaysia and Singapore should be driven in a measured and thoughtful way, in line with economic and political circumstances.

The Second Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr Lee Yock Suan): Madam, several Members have spoken about relations with Brunei, Myanmar, countries other than ASEAN, eg, Japan and Middle East, and also issues concerning piracy in the Malacca Straits. I will try my best to answer these issues in the time remaining.

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First, concerning our relations with Brunei. As Members are aware, our relationship with Brunei is excellent. We enjoy warm and close ties, underpinned by broad-based cooperation. Both sides have long-standing cooperative arrangements in diverse areas like defence, broadcasting, education and health. Singapore and Brunei also cooperate in regional and multilateral fora. As small states, we share many common interests and similar challenges. We have always worked well together in ASEAN and other international fora.

The Brunei-Singapore Exchange Visit is entering its 11th year. It provides a regular platform for Ministers and senior civil servants, including younger leaders, from both sides to interact and exchange views. The large number of bilateral visits by leaders and officials is indicative of the healthy state of the bilateral relationship, as well as the comfort level shared by both sides. Bilateral relations were further strengthened by the Sultan's State Visit to Singapore in February last year. DPM Lee Hsien Loong visited Brunei shortly thereafter to reaffirm our close ties. Next week, at the invitation of His Majesty the Sultan, President and Mrs Nathan will be visiting Brunei. This will be the second State Visit by a Singapore President to Brunei.

Dr Warren Lee also asked in what other ways we can improve our economic ties, eg, when the oil revenue in Brunei runs out. Here, I can give you a couple of examples. One is the recent 2+X Agreement which was concluded by Singapore, Thailand and Brunei to have an open skies policy relating to the movement of cargo by planes. This is a good example of the close cooperation that is possible amongst these countries.

Another example would be in the area of media. For example, we loan the TV

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authorities in Brunei a lot of our programmes, and there is a regular exchange yearly. So I think it is true to say that, in many areas, we are cooperating very well with Brunei. And I think they have found it useful to learn from Singapore how to tackle various issues.

Of course, their challenges are different. Their population is much smaller and the economy is very much dependent on the oil revenue. There is, for example, no tax on individuals. So they have a big challenge on how to gradually wean people away from this system, and move into a system that is more market-based, market-oriented. And Singapore will do our best to help them when we can.

Mr Ravindran asked about the state of relations between Singapore and Myanmar. There has been some progress in Myanmar towards reconciliation since the arrest of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi in May last year. Following his appointment in August 2003, Prime Minister Khin Nyunt has announced a "Road Map of Myanmar", with plans to reconvene a National Convention towards a new Constitution.

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A "Forum on International Support for National Reconciliation in Myanmar" was hosted by Thailand on 15th December last year. I was present at that forum. Myanmar's Foreign Minister Win Aung briefed delegates from Indonesia, Singapore, China, Japan, India, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Australia, and Special Envoy Razali Ismail on the Myanmar Roadmap process.

During his visit to Myanmar from the 1st to the 4th of March 2004, the UN Secretary-General's Special Envoy Razali Ismail met both Prime Minister Khin Nyunt and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Razali Ismail

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has said that he was, and I quote, " encouraged by the expressions of commitment of the Prime Minister", meaning Khin Nyunt, "to implement, in an all-inclusive manner, the Government", the Myanmar government's, "seven-step roadmap, starting with the reconvening of the National Convention". Razali Ismail also said that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi had indicated her willingness to work for a " harmonised " relationship, and I am quoting from him, with Prime Minister Khin Nyunt to move the national reconciliation process forward. Prime Minister Khin Nyunt has also been meeting various minority groups in Myanmar to involve them in the process.

As Members know, Singapore is open to all options to improve the situation in Myanmar. No initiative for national reconciliation can succeed without the approval and support of all the key groups and individuals in Myanmar. Any attempt to impose a solution from the outside is likely to fail. It could even exacerbate the situation.

Singapore and other ASEAN neighbours maintain a "constructive engagement" policy with Myanmar. It is not intended to dictate to Myanmar what it should or should not do. It is also not to isolate or impose sanctions on them. Instead, our approach is to speak to the Myanmars quietly as a friend and fellow ASEAN member, and to encourage and assist them in their national reconciliation efforts.

Mr Chandra Mohan raised some issues about our relations with countries other than ASEAN. I think, to a certain extent, the answers have already been given by Minister Jayakumar in that we have representation in many countries. We have also appointed roving ambassadors and, of course, there are many countries with representation in Singapore and the numbers are growing.

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On our part, we have also been active, for example, in getting the ASEAN-EU process going and also the Forum for East Asia and Latin American Countries.

I think our Prime Minister, Mr Goh Chok Tong should be given the credit for building these two bridges, these two important bridges to Europe and to Latin America. And we continue to work very hard to establish and improve our links with countries all over the world. This is shown by the strong support that has been given to us on various issues, for example, on our proposed hosting of the IMF World Bank Meeting and also on our representation in maritime issues.

**** And not forgetting India. I think Members will know that we are developing our relations very well with India. There has been a very good flow of exchange of visits by top leaders of both countries. Prime Minister Goh has made many trips to India himself. I think he is very well regarded as a friend of India. And, on their part, the present government has been very active in coming to Singapore and in trying to enhance its relations not only with Singapore but also with ASEAN.

Now besides China, India is the other major power that is developing rapidly in terms of trade, in terms of influence. And we have been working very closely with them.

As Members are aware, we are negotiating a free trade agreement, what is known as the Closer Economic Co-operation Agreement (CECA) with India. The negotiations are in an advanced stage. It is now held back somewhat by the elections. But we expect that after the elections, we will be able to move forward, and hopefully conclude the agreement within the second half of this year.

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Mr Sin Boon Ann asked about the relations with Japan. Our relations with Japan have deepened and broadened over the last few years, particularly with the signing of the Japan-Singapore Economic Partnership Agreement (JSEPA) in 2002. Relations have been very good, in fact they have become better, and I would say they are excellent. Bilateral relations have been multi-faceted. Besides regular exchanges at the political and officials' level, both countries have also cooperated in other areas such as combating SARS and piracy.

There are also substantial people-to-people exchanges between the two countries. Throughout Japan, many friendship associations with Singapore have been established, such as in Hiroshima, Ishikawa, Kagoshima, Ehime, Nagasaki and Okinawa, and many of these associations have offices in Singapore to help them promote ties with us. Singapore and Japan also have a regular symposium called the Japan-Singapore Symposium, where we try to reach out beyond politicians and officials to include academics and businessmen to meet to discuss pertinent political, security, economic and social issues and developments which are of interest to both sides. And as Mr Sin has noted, Japanese tourists are one of our main sources of tourists. I think they were somewhat frightened off by the SARS crisis, but now they are back and their numbers are increasing.

I think Mr Sin made the point about having some kind of a Work Attachment Programme in Japan. If I understand correctly, in fact our Ministry of Manpower has put forward a proposal to the Japanese for such a Work Attachment Programme to encourage our students to spend some time in each other's country for work attachment. I think this will be very good for their learning experience

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and also for enhancing ties between the two countries.

As regards the JSEPA, there is a yearly review and the aim is to try to broaden and deepen the areas of cooperation. I believe the agreement has brought many benefits. Perhaps, more importantly, it has served as a catalyst to get others to start moving as well. And, of course, there is competition with China. We are trying to persuade the EU to talk to us, to start off in Singapore and later on broaden to ASEAN as well.

Dr Warren Lee and Dr Maliki Osman asked about our relations with the Middle East. Singapore has warm and friendly relations with many countries in the Middle East. We continue to build on our bilateral relations with these countries through visits, meetings and training programmes.

As Members have noted, our Prime Minister recently made official visits to the Middle East, his second as PM. He last visited Oman and UAE in February 2000. In addition, there were Ministerial-level visits to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and Israel last year.

We have also received frequent visits from Middle Eastern leaders, including the Jordanian King and the Bahraini Prime Minister in 2003.

Singapore has close relations with Egypt, Jordan and Bahrain. PM was warmly received in all three capitals where he had substantive meetings with his counterparts. Although PM did not make an official visit to the UAE, he used the opportunity of his transit in Dubai to take stock of the developments that have taken place there since his last visit two years ago.

We signed an Economic and Technical Cooperation Agreement with Egypt; two MOUs on Cultural and Tourism

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Cooperation with Jordan; and an Avoidance of Double Taxation Agreement with Bahrain during PM's visit. We are currently negotiating a bilateral Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with Jordan and will commence negotiations with Bahrain and Egypt shortly.

There is potential in the Middle East for the expansion of social, political, economic and cultural ties. Many Middle Eastern countries are now looking "East" towards Asia to diversify their economies and seek new strategic partners.

To enhance our relations with this region, PM launched the Middle East Technical Cooperation Programme, whereby we will share our developmental experiences with other countries in fields like port/airport management and IT. Since the mid-1990s, we have trained 53 Bahrainis, about 100 Egyptians and 62 Jordanians.

In addition, PM floated the idea of a Middle East-Asia Dialogue, which would seek to promote greater cooperation and understanding between the two regions. Participants will be invited in their individual capacities. It will involve eminent persons such as policy makers, academics and opinion multipliers from the two regions. This initiative has the support of Egypt, Jordan and Bahrain.

Finally, I will respond to the issue of piracy raised by Mr Sin Boon Ann.

Maritime security is a priority issue for the entire region. Singapore's approach has always been to work with as many countries as possible to promote the safety and security of all our sea lines of communication, including the Straits of Malacca. Such efforts have intensified in the current security climate, extending beyond piracy to counter-terrorism measures.

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ASEAN remains a key pillar of Singapore's approach to regional maritime security. Combating sea piracy is one of the eight areas of ongoing cooperation under the Work Programme to implement the ASEAN Plan of Action to Combat Transnational Crime, adopted by ASEAN law enforcement ministers in May 2002.

ASEAN also works with its dialogue partners under the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF). The 10th ARF adopted a Ministerial Statement on Cooperation Against Piracy and Other Threats to Maritime Security in June 2003, committing members to cooperation in combating piracy and other maritime crimes.

In August 2002, ASEAN adopted a Joint Declaration for Cooperation to Combat International Terrorism with the US. In June 2003, ASEAN Senior Officials dealing with Transnational Crime met with their US counterparts to formulate an ASEAN-US Counter Terrorism Workplan. One outcome of this will be a joint workshop with the US on "Enhancing Maritime Anti-Piracy and Counter Terrorism Cooperation in the ASEAN Region", to be held in Manila in April this year.

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Singapore and other ASEAN countries are also involved in a broader regional maritime security initiative in partnership with Japan. Singapore played an active role

in the drafting of the Regional Cooperation Agreement on Combating Piracy and Armed Robbery Against Ships in Asia (ReCAAP), to be signed by 16 Asian countries. In support of this process, Singapore has offered to host the Information Sharing Centre (ISC) which is a key pillar under ReCAAP. This Centre will facilitate the exchange of information between ReCAAP members relating to piracy and armed robbery against ships, research and best practices.

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A final decision has yet to be made on the location of this Centre.

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Madam, I want to thank the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ministers for their clear and comprehensive answers, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Heng Chee How (Jalan Besar): Madam, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head N of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code NA 1500.

From the exchanges that we have heard earlier, it is quite clear that the world has major concerns in the area of politics, economics, as well as security. As a small country, any changes in these areas would have a major impact on Singapore. Accordingly, it is important for us to manage these well and I can see that the role of successful diplomacy in the conduct of foreign affairs will become increasingly important in helping Singapore deal effectively with all these challenges.

As part of the machinery to help the Ministry of Foreign Affairs execute its objectives and intent, our network of foreign missions would have to play their role. In this connection, I would like the comment from the Minister, and his assessment, as to whether the resources that we allocate to our missions overseas, in terms of infrastructure, system support, manpower and overall capabilities, would be sufficient in allowing them to deal with the growing volume as well as the complexity of tasks that would be required of them to support the overall aims and plans of our nation.

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Mr Raymond Lim Siang Keat: Madam, I want to thank Mr Heng Chee How for his pertinent comments. To begin with, when it comes to the issue of overseas missions, we must recognise that our resources are limited. But what is important is that we make the best use of them to achieve our purposes. Thus, MFA regularly reviews the operations and workload of our overseas mission to ensure that they are operating effectively in promoting and safeguarding Singapore's national interest and in providing consular services to Singaporeans overseas. For example, we have increased our staff in our four overseas missions in China in recent years to meet the increased workload arising from visa applications and consular services to Singaporeans there.

MFA currently has a total of 41 overseas missions - embassies, high commissions, permanent representative missions and consulates in 27 countries. In order to maximise our coverage, 10 of our Heads of Missions are also accredited to 15 other countries. Further, as behoves a small country, we have, perhaps in a more innovative way, appointed 24 non-resident ambassadors in 36 countries and 25 honorary consuls in 25 cities to extend our presence. Altogether, MFA has representation in 79 countries.

Also, to support the Government's regionalisation policy, we have opened consulates in Dhaka, Bangladesh in 1997 and Pekan Baru, Indonesia in 2001. Our Consulate-General was opened in 1999 in San Francisco to provide consular and other services to Singaporeans in the west coast states of the US and to strengthen business and educational ties with these states. We are also reviewing our consular representation in India, given the growing bilateral trade and visitors from India.

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Again, to maximise resources, our overseas missions also provide office space to offices from other Government agencies. For example, IE Singapore has offices stationed at 15 of our overseas missions to better service Singapore enterprises overseas.

Mr Heng Chee How: Madam, I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $235,632,780 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $50,000,200 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.