ENHANCING SINGAPORE'S NATIONAL SECURITY

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ENHANCING SINGAPORE'S NATIONAL SECURITY:

(Statement by the Deputy Prime Minister and Coordinating Minister for Security and Defence) Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Mr Speaker, Sir, eleven days ago, on July 7th, terrorists attacked London. The facts of the London bomb blasts are now known. Four separate bombs, three in the subways and one on a bus, went off almost simultaneously. The casualty toll stands at more than 50 dead and over 800 injured. In Singapore, we were doubly shocked by the attack. First, it struck against a city and a country that had taken the terrorist threat seriously and prepared for it. Second, it struck London less than a day after that city was selected, in Singapore, to host the 2012 Olympic Games.

Given the sophistication of the attack, it was clear that the preparations for the attack must have required much effort and planning. In targeting the London transport system at peak hour, the attack was clearly intended to cause maximum casualties, disruption and chaos. We do not know why the terrorists timed the attack that day, but the attack appears to have been timed to coincide with the opening of the G8 Summit in order to create maximum publicity.

Sir, the attack on London was a wicked act by evil men. We condemn this cruel and ultimately senseless act. We are deeply saddened by the loss of many innocent lives. The Government and the people of Singapore have conveyed our deepest sympathies to the people of London and the United Kingdom. Singapore also conveyed its strong support for Britain in the fight against terror. In this hour of darkness, the British people showed courage and resilience.

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We applaud the efforts of the UK government in managing the consequences of the attack. We were impressed by the swift and well-co-ordinated response of the emergency agencies in the immediate aftermath of the incident and by the determination of Prime Minister Tony Blair and the British Government to return London to a state of normalcy.

Within four hours of the attack, all the survivors had been evacuated and the London public transport system had been shut down. Government officials held joint press conferences and gave systematic updates on the situation to calm the public. By the next morning, July 8th, most of the light railway and surface rail had resumed operations in East London and buses had begun to run. Roads, previously closed, had re-opened except for those in the immediate vicinity of the attacks. The underground rail network also resumed partial operations but with added security measures, such as sniffer dogs and extra patrols.

The July 7th attack underscores the persistence of the global menace of transnational terrorism. While many key operatives of the terrorist network of Al-Qaeda and its affiliates have been arrested over the last few years, the threat has not been eliminated. Instead, Al-Qaeda has morphed into a loose franchise of terror inspiring the emergence of new groups of fanatics. The London attack confirmed that all countries in the world, including Singapore, face a clear and present threat of terrorism. Our common fight against transnational terrorism must continue. It will be a long struggle and we need to be prepared for a protracted campaign.

Security Measures

Over the last few years, my colleagues and I have been actively thinking and

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working to reduce the likelihood of such terrorist attacks occurring in Singapore. The terrorist threat we face is not ordinary. On various occasions in this House and at dialogue sessions, I have explained how the terrorist threat today is qualitatively different from the terrorist threat of the past, and hence requires a different and strategic response. We live in a different world today. Globalisation is a fact of life that we cannot escape. Indeed, globalisation must be embraced if we are to benefit from the globally interconnected economy. But there is a dark side to globalisation as well - a transnational terrorism that operates on the same autonomous global networking.

The terrorist threat today comprises a network of cells, groups and individuals residing in many countries linked often by personal friendship, inspired by a common extremist ideology and galvanised into deadly action usually by a radical mentor. This is a new challenge in the realm of security which all countries in the world have to confront today.

On May 16th, I spoke to Members of this House about the broad range of measures the Government has instituted across sectors, such as aviation security, maritime security, cyber security and border control, and the steps we have taken to strengthen our critical infrastructure and protect Singapore against chemical, biological, radiological and explosives threats.

Today, I would like to brief Members on the measures that the Government has taken to protect Singapore's transportation system against a terrorist threat. The Government stepped up the security of our public transportation network as a precaution immediately after the attacks in London took place. The National Security Coordination Secretariat in the Prime Minister's Office worked with agencies in the Ministry of Home Affairs

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and the Ministry of Transport to review and enhance our security measures where necessary.

Post 9-11, we have stepped up security measures across all our major sectors, including our public security systems. Even before the April 2004 Madrid train attacks, MHA, MOT and LTA, together with our security agencies, have been progressively enhancing the security of our public transport systems and hardening its infrastructure. In April last year, we formed the Public Transport Security Committee to study what other measures could be taken to protect our commuters' safety. Since then, even more has been done to strengthen the security of our MRT and bus networks. Our security agencies have been working with the public transport providers since the Madrid bomb blasts of March 2004 to prevent an attack on our trains and buses and to prepare them to deal with an incident, if one should occur.

Our Internal Security Department (ISD) has no specific intelligence to indicate terrorist attacks in Singapore are about to take place. But we should bear in mind that the Jemaah Islamiyah had previously planned to attack MRT stations here. This makes the work of the Public Transport Security Committee critical. The Committee monitors prevailing security threats to Singapore's public transport system and enhances existing security measures. The Committee has since August 2004 developed plans to deploy transit security guards to MRT stations and bus interchanges. A Police MRT unit has been set up and will be deployed from August 2005. CCTV coverage for MRT stations and trains will continue to be enhanced. An MRT security audit framework has been implemented. We are continuing efforts to boost commuter vigilance and are conducting exercises to validate contingency plans in a multiple simultaneous attack scenario.

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In the immediate aftermath of the London bomb blasts on July 7th, our Police HQ Command Post quickly initiated action by police units. Police patrols were stepped up at all MRT stations. The MRT operators increased the number of checks done on commuters. As London and other cities implement more measures to detect and prevent terrorist attacks, we must do likewise. For example, we are planning the deployment of Explosive Detection Dog teams at MRT stations to carry out surprise checks. We will also install CCTV at bus interchanges for better surveillance.

National Resilience

Sir, the London attack underlines the point that no one is immune from the threat of transnational terrorism. The UK Government has a robust security architecture and professional service in dealing with terrorism. Yet, even a city as hardened and prepared as London became victim to terrorist attacks. The next target could well be Singapore. I would like to urge all Singaporeans to be psychologically prepared, and vigilant. I am glad to note that, in recent months, there has been an increase in the number of reports made to our security agencies by members of the public about suspicious activities and bags left unattended. It shows that our people can be alert when jolted out of their comfort zone. This does not mean that we should live in fear or that we should be paranoid about every single item left unattended in public places. Rather, it is about taking ownership of our well-being. We must share the conviction that together we can defeat any attacks against us. As I have often said, Sir, fighting terror is not just the Government's fight. It is Singapore's fight against terrorism.

But winning the fight against terrorism does not mean that there will not be an attack. Even with the best preparation

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and the most comprehensive security measures, an attack is possible and can take place without specific warning. How we conduct ourselves in the aftermath of a terrorist attack will be a major test of our national resilience and our mettle as a people. We need to remain resolute in the face of terrorism. The people of London have proven to be tenacious and unyielding. Time and again, we have seen how important the resilience of our people is in the face of an attack. This is best epitomised by the reactions of many Londoners. When asked about how they are coping with the terrorist attack, one Londoner put it this way, "I think the idea is to get back to normal as quickly as possible. That's the best way to show them [the terrorists] it isn't going to work." The response of the whole British society - the victims and their families, the British people, the emergency responders, the media, Government and politicians - all rallied and refused to be cowed by the terrorists. London will prevail. So too must Singapore.

The reactions and responses of Singaporeans to the terrorist attacks in London are encouraging. They now recognise that security measures, which were previously regarded as onerous, are now a necessary fact of life. Many supported the widening of security measures to protect Singapore.

Social Cohesion and Religious Tolerance

Sir, social cohesion across various ethnic and religious groups in Singapore is an integral part of our national resilience as a nation.

We should be alert to the impact of a terrorist attack on the social fabric of our nation. The British authorities have identified the perpetrators of the London blasts and they are four young, Muslim British citizens. Three of them were born in Britain of Pakistani descent. The fourth was an immigrant of Jamaican

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descent. Let me say categorically at this point that terrorism has nothing to do with the true faith of Islam. I cannot agree more with Prime Minister Tony Blair when he said, and I quote, "Fanaticism is not a state of religion but a state of mind." Let us not dignify these murderers, for this is what they are, by associating them with any great religious faith of the world.

At the same time, we should not take the strength of our social fabric for granted until it has been tested by fire. In the wake of an attack, a backlash against our Muslim community could split our country and lay to waste the decades of hard work we have put in into nurturing racial and religious harmony and in building up social resilience. All Singaporeans must be sensitive to this concern. For example, in the wake of the London bomb blasts, several arson attacks against Muslim targets were reported in various parts of the UK, and the Muslim Council of Britain and Muslims in the UK received hate mail and threats.

The Singapore Muslim community has made great strides in forging a unique Muslim identity shaped by a deep conviction in Islam and fostered by Singapore's unique context of a pluralistic and progressive society and a globalised and secular state. The Singapore Muslim identity is rooted in the principle that Muslims faithful to Islam can play an important and integrative role as active citizens in a secular Singapore. MUIS and other Malay/Muslim leaders are taking the lead in forging the Singapore Muslim identity. They will draw from the lessons we have learnt from the experiences of other Muslim communities. We will apply these lessons carefully as they relate to the context of the Singapore Muslim community. Some of these lessons have broader, universal appeal, for example, tolerance of diversity and the need to adapt one's religious life to the unique context of the society and the state we live in.

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Sir, in May, I joined Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs, Minister Yaacob and President MUIS, Alami Musa, on a visit to Egypt and Turkey to have a first-hand look at the practice of Islam in these two countries. Egypt, and in particular Al-Azhar University in Cairo, is the cradle of Islamic scholarship and an icon of Islamic learning. Our visit to Egypt and our meetings with the Grand Mufti Dr Ali Jummah and Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar Sheikh Tantawi reinforced the message of religious leaders in Singapore that Islam, as a religion of peace, is tolerant of diversity and is progressive and inclusive. I would encourage MUIS to share its observations of the Egyptian and Turkish Muslim communities with the public and of how the visits have helped to reaffirm the validity of key principles in the Singapore Muslim identity. In general, the message that is conveyed by the Islamic scholars and leaders in these two countries (Egypt and Turkey) is that each Muslim community has to decide on the unique way in which it should lead its religious life. Singapore's context of a multi-religious society and a modern, globalised and secular state is unique. It exerts an influence over the religious life of the Muslim community.

A Muslim community's integration with other communities in a secular state is key to reducing suspicion and mistrust. A Muslim community's denunciation of radical Islamic groups that perpetrate acts of terrorism will help other communities see that Islam is a religion of peace, that the vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving and that Islam should not be tarnished by the acts of a small radical minority. This will help mitigate any backlash in the event of a terrorist attack. In this connection, I welcome the statements by MUIS and other Muslim groups in Singapore denouncing the attacks in London.

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Conclusion

We have been fortunate that there have been no attacks on Singapore. But we cannot be complacent. Our security agencies cannot be everywhere. The people of Singapore play a critical role in partnership with the Government to keep Singapore safe and secure. They do so in three important ways. First, our people are the eyes and ears and the extended reach of our security agencies. In this regard, I would like to urge all members of the public to continue to be vigilant and to report suspicious articles, persons or activities to the security agencies. Second, our people are the arms and legs of the emergency response agencies. Singaporeans should take an active interest in life-saving skills and participate in emergency response exercises organised in their neighbourhoods and constituencies. Third, our people are the hearts and minds of the country. The psychological resilience of Singaporeans and the unity and harmony among the different communities are crucial to see Singapore through crises.

We can learn from the example set by Londoners in how they reacted and responded to the terrorist attacks of 7th July. They have remained resilient and defiant in the face of terrorism, and they have achieved a remarkable recovery. The Muslim community in the UK has contributed to the healing process and has worked hard with the other communities to strengthen the moderate voice of Islam.

Since 9-11, my colleagues and I have worked to upgrade the physical security protective measures in Singapore, review the strategic framework that facilitates greater coordination across Government agencies and cooperation internationally, raise the public's awareness and enhance our collective resilience. However, we must be prepared for a long struggle. The

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fight against terror cannot be left to the Government alone. The nation must come together and stand up to the threat facing us. Only through sustained vigilance and unity can we secure our safety and security.

Dr Wang Kai Yuen (Bukit Timah): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Deputy Prime Minister for issuing a statement on terrorism and the attack on London. But would the DPM not also agree that, besides taking security measures, we could also learn quite a bit from the social change currently undergoing in Britain? And one of the key questions is: why would well-adjusted young men from 19 to 20 years become so radicalised that they would undertake such act against their fellow citizens? A question has also been asked, in the preaching of Islam to these young people, whether there was a shortage of British-born Imams , so much so that they have to bring in foreign-born Imams , and as a result they could not preach to the young people using British terms, thereby exposing them to external Islamic radical ideas.

So I thought, perhaps, we also have to ask ourselves whether in a multi-racial and multi-cultural society like Singapore, terrorism can be internal rather than external. If the threat is mainly internal, then all the ICA barriers that they put up may not stop terrorism. Therefore, it is more important, Sir, that we might have to look further into this and ask the same question that the British have asked - can the young people in Singapore become so radicalised to take similar action against their fellow citizens?

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, Dr Wang Kai Yuen has asked a question as to whether terrorism can be internal as well as external. The answer is yes. Terrorism can be in our midst. It is not

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something far away. It can be something which is home-grown. Three of the four people who blew themselves up in a bomb attack in London were born in Britain, British citizens. None of them were poor. All of them had jobs. They were well adjusted. Dr Wang has asked: why should well-adjusted young men be prepared to be radicalised, carry out terrible acts, kill themselves, kill other people, to pursue an evil objective? Sir, this is a fundamental question which the world is asking. What is it that can inspire young men and also young women in the Middle East to give up their lives is a scenario which is difficult to understand. What do they gain from it? What do they believe?

The psychological profile of suicide bombers in Britain and other countries is a surprising one. These suicide bombers are not people who are devout, who know Islam, who have studied the religion. Quite often, as with the four suicide bombers in London, they are ordinary citizens - people who have jobs, people who mix with other communities. One of the bombers loved to play cricket; another one worked in his father's fish and chips shop. None of them were the type of people whom you might regard as people prepared to give up their lives, but they had been to Afghanistan or Pakistan. They had been radicalised by somebody who could twist their minds. One of them in fact was, according to the papers, somewhat of a playboy and a worry to his parents because he was not serious. But a visit to a terrorist camp, an extremist group, in Pakistan changed him. He became devoutly religious. He was born again, but for an evil purpose.

On the 31 Jemaah Islamiyah extremists whom we arrested in December 2001 and interrogated, the most worrying thing about these extremists is that they were so ordinary. All of them were fully employed. Some of them had served in our Singapore Armed

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Forces. None of them could be regarded as being ill-treated. Why should they be prepared,

if we have not got them, to carry out attacks, deeds which would have killed not only Americans, foreigners, but many of their own friends and some of their own relatives?

Sir, this is a difficult question to answer. I will not try to do it here. When you talk about religion, you are reaching into the innermost recesses of a person's personality. We have to understand this. We are working with our counterparts in other countries to try and understand it. We are exchanging intelligence. There is a new mood sweeping this Islamic world. That is why the Singapore Muslim identity project, initiated by MUIS and the other Muslim leaders in Singapore, is so important. One theory is that people, like the London bombers, are, in a sense, empty vessels. They had no religious ballast at all. They were empty, and, being empty vessels, when they met a radical mentor, it was easier to pour poison into their minds. It is a theory. Possible? We have to see whether this is true.

But it comes back to the point that in the case of our own Muslim community in Singapore, we must make sure that they have got a sound religious foundation. That way, there will be some protection against an external radical preacher being able to influence them. But that is not a 100% guarantee. There is no 100% guarantee. We can take certain steps in order to reduce this probability. One of the problems which they have in Britain is that, up to recently, they have no means to stop people coming into Britain and preaching in their mosques messages of hate, jihad and violence. Here, MUIS monitors our mosques very carefully, what is being preached at Friday prayers. I think in that way, we can help perhaps to moderate the possibility of an attack happening in Singapore. But I stress again, despite all the measures which we

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have been taking, and we are taking, we cannot give a 100% guarantee that there will not be an attack in Singapore. We have to be prepared.

Winning the war on terrorism does not mean that there will not be an attack. We have to live with terror today. This is a stark message which all of us are confronted with. Our security agencies are working hard. We have a sound strategic framework which we have implemented. Our people are on the alert. We need to be vigilant all the time and we will prevail over terrorism. London has prevailed, so must we.

Mr Sin Boon Ann (Tampines): Sir, we learn that the London bombers were radicalised because of the visits to the madrasahs in Pakistan. I would like to ask the Minister whether he is aware of Singaporeans who have gone over to Pakistan to study at the madrasahs there, and what steps are being taken to restrict Singaporeans from travelling to such places and perhaps run the risk of radicalising themselves in the process.

Mr Ahmad Khalis Bin Abdul Ghani (Hong Kah): Mr Speaker, Sir, on a quite different point, I wonder whether the Deputy Prime Minister can let us have his views on comments made, both locally and internationally, that London paid the price of Britain's involvement in the war in Iraq, bearing in mind that Singapore also supported the military operations in Iraq and there are fears that by doing so we have made ourselves more vulnerable to terrorist attacks.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, with regard to the point about monitoring of Singaporeans who may have gone to madrasahs in Pakistan and be radicalised, yes, we try to keep track of who goes there. But we are a free society. So we cannot be sure of everybody. We do know that there are Singaporeans who have gone to some madrasahs, or

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religious schools, in a neighbouring country and from there went on to Pakistan. We have to depend very much on feedback from relatives and friends about such activities. And in fact, Sir, it was a tip-off from a member of the public about a particular Muslim Singaporean who had gone to Afghanistan for training that led us to the arrest of the 31 Jemaah Islamiyah extremists in December 2001.

We cannot control the movements of Singaporeans. We keep watch on them. We try and make sure that we know who goes where. But for the other places, they can go to the southern Philippines to be radicalised. As to whether the bomb blasts in London were due to the involvement of Britain in the war in Iraq, there is no conclusive proof that one is linked to the other. There is no proof that if Britain had not joined the war in Iraq, there would be no bomb blast.

Sir, the agenda of the terrorists is not with regard to any particular incident or war. What they want is to overthrow the present international world order in which all of us are party and replace it by an Islamic caliphate, to bring Islam back to the practices of the 6th or 7th Century, to overthrow the open society in which all of us live in, and to close up the religion, be exclusive. Anybody who does not conform to the practices and beliefs of the radical Islam is a kafir, an infidel, and is therefore a fair target to be murdered. Sir, this is a murderous ideology. But it is real. It is not over there. It could reach here. We have to live with it. We support the war in Iraq. We believe that it is good for us to join the coalition led by the US against terror. The fight against terror is worldwide. We cannot opt out by not taking part. We are in it. We must continue whatever the difficulties. Ultimately, the civilised world will win out. The moderate Muslims will know that they cannot tolerate this radical

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minority in their midst. Otherwise, Muslims throughout the world will be marginalised and regarded with suspicion. That cannot be so. We must win this war. There is no choice.

Dr Amy Khor Lean Suan: I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister if there are any plans ahead for us to conduct anti-terrorism drills at MRT stations, bus interchanges, and so on, like what UK actually had done previously, not just to educate the public but also to train the staff of the public transport operators as to how to react if such an incident were to occur. I would also like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister what more could be done to prepare Singaporeans psychologically if such an incident were to happen because, if you talk to some Singaporeans, many of them may feel that such an incident happening could be remote in Singapore.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, as to whether we are conducting anti-terrorism drills in MRT stations and bus interchanges, the answer is yes. We are already doing so. We have conducted such drills in order to guard against terrorists and also to prepare our people to know what to do if there should be a terrorist attack in our MRT station or in a bus interchange. I think one of the lessons which we can learn from Britian is that practice does work. In Britain, they have, what you call, the Civil Contingency Secretariat which has practised this scenario again and again. What happens if there is a terrorist attack in a subway station, and that is why when it happened, all the systems went into place. There was no panic. People were evacuated, rescued, and life went back to normal within a day. That is what we have to do in Singapore, and we have practised the scenario, not only in the case of one terrorist attack at one MRT station, but the possibility of simultaneous attacks in many stations. We have to prepare for the worst. Only by preparing

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for the worst, can we ensure that we will not be caught off-guard.

What can we do to prepare Singaporeans for a terrorist attack? Singaporeans must be ready. The message must get through and it is here that Members of the House can assist by participating in the exercises conducted by the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Police, in order to prepare Singaporeans psychologically so that they will not panic. MHA, for example, has this very useful initiative of distributing, what you call, 'Be Ready' bags in all the constituencies - bags which have got a radio, a torch and some medicines. That is a useful psychological reminder to Singaporeans of the world in which we now live and the danger possibly in our midst. But we have to keep at it all the time. Unfortunately, the fact that terrorist attacks do take place, for example, on July 7th in London, the place which is familiar to many Singaporeans, brings home the message to all Singaporeans that, today, no one is immune from the terror threat. So keep at it, reinforce our resilience, strengthen our security, and we will prevail.

Ms Irene Ng Phek Hoong: I would like to ask DPM whether he can enlighten us on how we can educate Singaporeans to spot possible terrorists within their midst. I know it is difficult. But the thought of having it so easy for terrorists to strap suicide bomb materials onto their bodies and just going into MRT stations to blow off stations simultaneously is too terrible to bear. I wonder whether it is possible because I saw an ISD video where there was a suspicious-looking man with a cap and sweater on a hot day in Raffles Place, with a fake bomb strapped onto him, and nobody around him batted an eyelid. So I wonder whether more could be done to educate Singaporeans on such matters.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: I would say again, Sir, that what we should do is

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when you see something which is suspicious, if you see a bag which is left unattended, report to some authority. We will look into it. We have to. And I am glad that we are getting more reports today, be vigilant. I saw a programme on television where they conducted a test and left a bag in Raffles Place, and two people who were alarmed from it were two foreigners - two American women - because they have been used to an attack. To be safe, do not wait until an attack in Singapore. After that, everybody will be vigilant, but it would be too late.

Mdm Ho Geok Choo: In view of the group of Singaproeans who have travelled to Pakistan and studied in a madrasah , and DPM had indicated earlier on that indeed there is a tracking on this group of people, I am just wondering whether there has been any detection of abnormal behaviour in this group of people and, since this group of people is in the midst of our community, whether there is any effort made to engage employers or people who actually do come into contact with these people so that this group of people who are in close contact can be made aware of the behaviour and movement of these people.

Mdm Halimah Yacob: Sir, first, I note with some concern that the person accused of murdering Huang Na, Took, was able to just leave Singapore and go into Johore without a passport and without being stopped

by immigration on both sides. I think that causes some concerns among Singaporeans on the issue of security. So, I would like to ask DPM's comments on that.

My second point, Sir, is that one of the comments about these four men who were the bombers is that they came from the Beeston area of Leeds. There was a comment piece which I read which pointed out the fact that there is not much integration in that area. In fact, there was extreme segregation and

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isolation among British who are Caucasians and those who are Asians living in the Beeston area. What I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister is whether, in his view, there is something else that we can do a lot, in terms of integration. We have already got the IRCCs in place. Are we comfortable with that or is there something more that we can do to ensure more integration in Singapore?

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, let me take Mdm Halimah's question first.

With regard to this suspect, Mr Took, who is accused of murdering Huang Na and who just strolled across the causeway, yes, that was a breach of border control. This should never have happened, and that this is something which our immigration authorities would have to tighten up. It is something which we will have to look into.

As to whether the segregation situation in Beeston contributed to the radicalisation of these Muslims, it is possible. But, as I said, the three young men were regarded as well-adjusted British people. They played cricket, they integrated well. One of them had British girlfriends, much to the worry of his parents, and yet he could be radicalised. Here, in Singapore, Sir, we are very conscious that there should not be segregation of the races, and that is why in our housing estates, CCs and all our activities, we encourage all the races to mix together, and I am happy that in our mosques as well, our mosque leaders and community reach out to other communities, and the more that we can participate in such activities the better. Let me just give a plug for brisk-walking. I think that is a good example where early this month we had an exercise and 5,000 people of all races and ages could take part in such an activity. And I think this

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helps to create understanding and we should do more. It may appear trivial but it is not. It is a way in which one community or race can be comfortable with another, and we should never neglect this. It is very important.

As to whether we are monitoring people who have been to Pakistan and come back and what we are doing about them, the answer is, yes, we have a very efficient ISD. They monitor such people and that is why, from time to time, as hon. Members would know, people are arrested and detained, and it is necessary but it is a continuous job, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, and this monitoring has to go on and we have to be very grateful to all our security people, ie, the police, ISD, SAF, SID, the people in our National Security Coordination Secretariat for the effort which they have made to keep Singapore safe, and I think that we cannot continue to do so without the help of Members to mobilise the public. This is not a job for the Government alone. This is a job for all Singaporeans.

Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong: Sir, if I may ask the Deputy Prime Minister, with our tight border control and security checks at the border, how do we expect that the smugglers or terrorists can actually manage to smuggle the bombs into Singapore when security is so tight?

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, I would say that just the fact that we have had no bombs in Singapore shows that our border controls work.

Mr Alexander Chan Meng Wah (Nominated Member): Sir, one of the successes of the British investigation after the fact was that they had a network of thousands of closed circuit televisions and there was one statistic which said that the chance of a Londoner being caught on camera is like 300 times a day. My question is whether or not we think that

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this might be necessary for us to implement in Singapore.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, we are extending the CCTV coverage in our bus stations, MRT stations and other places in Singapore where people congregate. It is a part of life now. For example, at our MRT stations, all our CCTV cameras are those where the films are recorded and we can analyse them. Surveillance is one of the effective ways of deterring terrorism. We have to expand this to areas where many Singaporeans go to in order to travel or to get together for meals and recreation. We cannot, of course, have a system where the whole of Singapore is under surveillance. So, one has to have a judicious balance between the needs for security and respecting the privacy of Singaporeans. That is a difficult decision which all societies in the world have to make today.

Prof. Ivan Png Paak Liang (Nominated Member): Sir, I would like to take up a point made by another Member on the connection between the war on terrorism and Iraq. I note that our engagement in Iraq was singled out in the joint statement between President Bush and our Prime Minister Lee in the Prime Minister's recent visit to Washington. But, Sir, even some years after the coalition intervention in Iraq, there has been no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. So, I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister for his views on whether the coalition intervention in Iraq has actually advanced or brought us backwards in the war against terrorism.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, I am not going to enter into a debate about whether the war in Iraq is justified or not. That is another issue. But I would say, Sir, that with all the measures which have been taken over the last three years since 9/11, including the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, the arrest of the Al Qaeda leaders, the detention of the JI leaders

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here, breaking up of cells, on the whole, the world is a safer place today than in 2001, and it is because of the fact that the world is now alert to this threat of terrorism and it is a world-wide fight across many sectors, dimensions and areas. It is not a fight where you can isolate it in one territory. It is not a fight which is external. It is a fight which is everywhere, including in our midst, and that is why eradicating terrorism is going to take a long time, possibly two or three generations, and we must be prepared for this long struggle. That is life.

Dr Geh Min: Mr Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister has pointed out that we should not deteriorate into paranoia. I fully agree with him. He has also emphasised the importance of prevention, particularly integration of society. I would like to make a point here that I think that we could do better with integration between the different races in schools. I know that a lot of effort is put into this, but I get the impression that, because of the mother tongue policy, a lot of school children today are perhaps not as well integrated with other races as they could be. For instance, my daughter went to school where there were hardly any Malay or Indian children because it did not offer those mother tongue languages. So, can I say that we should look more into integration at the school level because I feel that, as has been seen, a lot of these terrorists are actually very young, and I am sure the seed of this would be planted at the educational level?

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, the Minister for Education is in this House and I am sure that he has listened to the point which Dr Geh Min has said so eloquently. If the Minister would like to reply, he can do so. Or, if Dr Geh Min could file a Question for Oral Answer, I am sure the Minister would give her a comprehensive reply.

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Mr Inderjit Singh: But, Sir, I think this is an important area that should be under the purview of the Coordinating Minister for Security and Defence. If we look at the Pakistani boys who were born and bred in London and they could not perhaps integrate and could then be cultivated for such terrorist acts, my fear is, not today but down the road, if our children are not cultivated to integrate with one another. And it is a real problem, particularly when we talk to the minorities. I was just discussing with Mdm Cynthia Phua that my daughter was asked to form a study group in her school in Cedar Secondary. All her group members were Indians, and I worry about this because I thought that she should have had a mixed group. And this is not an isolated story. There are many incidents like this. I hope that Members will bring up their experiences. Perhaps it is not just a matter for the Ministry of Education, but it is a security issue.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, I will just make one general point, and that is in a multi-racial society like Singapore, we must use every means possible in order to foster more integration among our races, particularly among our young people and, wherever it is possible to do so, we should encourage such activities so that communities would have a better understanding of each other. That is why, while we understand that each religious group and each community will have some activities which they would prefer to do on their own in public places, in schools, for example, we should foster integration as much as possible, and I agree with Mr Inderjit Singh on that point. But, as to whether if we do all these, if other societies do all these, if we look into the problems of poverty, this will remove the terrorist threat, that is still to be debated, because the analysis so far is that it goes beyond social problems. It has an illogical, perverse religious inspiration, and no amount of

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attention to social problems can remove that, although attention to social problems may help to alleviate or perhaps turn people away from the path of radicalism.

Mr Speaker: Order. I propose to take the break now. I suspend the sitting and will take the Chair again at 4.20 pm.

Sitting accordingly suspended

at 3.58 pm until 4.20 pm.

Sitting resumed at 4.20 pm

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[

Mr Speaker in the Chair: ]

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