HEAD P - MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS

Column No : 676

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Mr Speaker in the Chair]: Head P - Ministry of Home Affairs (cont.)

Resumption of Debate on Question [1st March, 2006],

"That the total sum to be allocated for Head P of the Estimates be reduced by $100." - [Ms Indranee Rajah].

Question again proposed.

Checkpoints

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, I have two points to make. One is on the checkpoint and the other one is on traffic jams at that checkpoint.

Sir, there is a need to tighten the security at Woodlands Checkpoint. Recently, there were two murderers who escaped from Singapore to Malaysia by just slipping through the Woodlands Checkpoint. I wonder if a terrorist can do the same after letting off a bomb in Singapore.

The second point is on the traffic jams at the Woodlands Checkpoint. Sir, I had complained of this last year and I believe the Minister promised to deploy more manpower there. Anyone, having travelled through the Checkpoint, will notice that the jams are still there. They are very crowded especially during peak hours. But I notice that during the peak hours, many of the check-in booths were left vacant and empty. I wonder whether they can be manned with manpower.

Handling the Young

Mr Tan Soo Khoon (East Coast): Sir, recently the Police announced that it would check on teenagers who are found loitering on the streets after 11.00 pm. The aim of this move, according to the Police, is to reduce the incidence of crime amongst young people. I think the aim is a good one but somehow this has caused some unease amongst the people who are affected, namely, the young people, and they are unhappy about the Police playing the role of nanny. Many of them resent the notion of being stopped by the Police and being checked on although, as we know, the Police have a right to check on everyone, young and old.

As a parent, I too would be concerned if my own children were to be wandering aimlessly on the streets late at night. But I think that young people have a point when they start to think that the Police action will amount to an infringement on their personal freedom. The police announcement conjures up notions of Gestapo-like checks on young people and sweeping them off the streets after 11.00 pm, and I attribute this misunderstanding on the part of young people to poor communication by the Police of what is basically a good intention. It was only when the Police clarified some days later that it was never intended to be what was obviously a misconception that perceptions changed. But I think the Police would have to go beyond merely placating young people by words now. It would have to show by its action that it will be discerning in its search and queries so that its image is not damaged in the eyes of young people.

A clear communication of good intentions is a must, especially when we are dealing with young people. It brings to my mind the recent incident when the Police warned a group of schoolgirls about selling T-shirts with elephants printed on them at a fund-raising event and wearing them en masse . My first reaction on hearing about this was that this was something unbelievable. What is wrong with selling white T-shirts with elephants on them, just because they were seen to be symbolising the unhappiness over the delay in opening Buangkok Station? After all, other organisations also have their members wearing white and white, no doubt without elephants. Sir, it took no less than the Minister himself - and I am glad he did it quickly - to say that the Police action was wrong. And as my colleague, Mr Charles Chong, pointed out, it was just a no brainer on the part of the Police. If not for this clarification being made quickly, I think the Police might have just lost some credibility.

Sir, society is loosening up. Young people nowadays behave differently from those of my generation. It is just a loosening up of society that we are all going through. What adults may view as loitering on the part of the young, the young consider that they are merely, what they say, hanging out or chilling out with their friends. It is probably a harmless activity, and we must therefore adopt a balanced approach. Where they have done wrong, we have to take necessary steps, and the best way is preventive action through education, and that is the job of parents and teachers. Tell them that crime does not pay. But a knee-jerk approach in handling the problem may in the end cause more harm than good. Sir, I think what we need to do is to show young people that the law is with them, not against them.

Curfew on Youths

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, in the past, the Police used to organise Boys' Club. I think that is a very good thing rather than putting a curfew on the youths of today. The Boys' Club, I think, is more meaningful. They can keep the boys away from the streets and also keep them away from doing mischief. The Boys' Club can teach these boys social skills. I think this Boys' Club should be revived rather than to impose curfew on the youths, which, I believe, is counter-productive.

The Chairman: Mr Wee Siew Kim is not here. Mr Loh Meng See.

Foreign Workers

Mr Loh Meng See (Jalan Besar): Sir, on the subject of foreign workers, I wish to ask the Ministry of Home Affairs to exercise restraint in the issue of liquor licence to provision shop outlets operating 24 hours and even coffeeshops in housing estates. I would also like to ask MHA to provide a channel for the grassroots organisations and the community to be able to raise objections to the issue of liquor licence in the housing estates.

Sir, in my constituency in the Beach Road area, the problem has worsened with foreign workers congregating there, and residents are very unhappy because of their excessive drinking, getting into fights, making lots of noise and disturbing the peace. They also urinate and litter, posing health concerns to our people. And what is developing is that the locals are also taking up to the drinking habit, especially with the cheap liquor available. Two years ago, we were able to persuade the Liquor Licensing Board to stop the renewal of the liquor licence but they have since revived it and allowed it to continue. I believe the social cost far outweighs the liberal attitude that we adopt in making alcohol, especially the cheap ones, available. The young and the locals are beginning to get hooked in the drinking habit.

Sir, we will not want to have a situation whereby alcohol is purchased and people are drinking in the streets, five-foot-ways and common areas. In fact, this is something that is not the desired situation that we want. People can enjoy their drinks in the privacy of their homes and in places that are not in common areas. And I think this is a trend that we want to stop.

The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Wong Kan Seng): Sir, yesterday, most of the MPs had spoken. And among those who were not here yesterday, an opportunity for them to speak was given this morning. From the English press reports, I notice that the emphasis seems to be on crime, KPIs and related issues concerning the Police. I want to deal with this first, although it is not the most important subject today that we have to deal with, particularly looking at the security situation that we face. But I want to get this subject over with so that I can explain to Members how to look at this issue of crime, KPIs and related issues from the proper perspective. I will then spend a bit of time talking about the more important subject, which is security, terrorism, counter-terrorism and how to prepare ourselves in the event of such a bomb explosion happening in Singapore. My Senior Minister of State and Senior Parliamentary Secretary will then answer specifically some of the other issues raised by Members.

Sir, a number of MPs have asked about the crime situation. While crime remains an area of the Ministry's work, let us not lose focus on the seriousness of the terrorism situation that we continue to face. That said, let me now get into the details of this overall crime situation.

Yes, there has been an increase in crime rate by 19.9%, almost 20%, from 30,620 cases in 2004 to 36,700 cases in 2005. And I do feel that this increase is alarming. But if we were to examine the types of crime which have seen an increase, we will note that many of these crimes need not have happened, had the victims been more careful and vigilant. Many crimes were opportunistic in nature and could have been prevented if the victims were more responsible in taking care of their belongings.

The bulk of the increase in crime rate can be attributed to minor theft and related offences, such as theft in dwelling and other theft. Handphone crime featured prominently in the increases for several offences, most notably robbery, snatch theft and other theft.

Mr Ahmad Khalis has rightly pointed out that there has been a significant increase in cheating and related offences, housebreaking and snatch theft. The increase in cheating and related offences is due in part to a rise in cases of criminal breach of trust. Many of these involved handphones. A typical example is that of a culprit who fails to return the victim's handphone after borrowing it. They will say, “May I borrow your phone?�?, and they will walk away, or run.

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On housebreaking, there was an increase of some 230 cases, from 1,240 in 2004 to 1,470 cases in 2005.

There was also an increase of 48 house-breaking involving culprits who gained entry through unsecured windows or doors. There was no sign of tampering of the premises. This suggests that the residents themselves had failed to secure their premises before they left their homes or before they went to sleep. Such crimes can be avoided if they take care to ensure their homes are well secured. Home-owners can prevent such crimes by installing alarm system to deter housebreakers and when it sounds, even if they are not at home, the neighbours can be alerted and I am sure would-be house-breakers would take precaution and run away. In 2005, there were 23 serial house-breakers arrested for a total of 257 cases, compared to 28 serial house-breakers arrested for 208 cases in 2004.

Mr Khalis asked if there are special efforts to rehabilitate such serial offenders. While Prison does not have special rehabilitation programmes for serial house-breakers, it will customise the rehabilitation programmes based on the individual and his level of needs and the risk of offending. The programmes address the offenders' criminal thinking that causes offending behaviours and also help to impart pro-social life skills to them.

As for snatch theft, where a person's belonging is forcibly snatched away from him, cases involving handphones have increased from 160 in 2004 to 280 in 2005. These 280 cases accounted for 45% of the snatch theft cases in 2005. Of particular concern are cases that target the handphones of young victims, which have increased from 50 cases to 93 cases in 2005. Robbery and theft cases involving handphones remain a key area of concern for the Police. The number of such cases increased significantly by 42% to 4,830 cases in 2005. This is due to the higher mobile phone penetration rate in Singapore, thereby giving to a larger pool of potential victims. Do you know how many handphone subscribers there are in Singapore? 4.3 million. So we must look at roughly 5,000 cases in the perspective of almost 4.3 million handphone subscribers in Singapore.

Similarly, just looking back at the years of the 1950s, I am sure we will find bicycle thefts were high because those were the days we travelled on a bicycle. But today, possibly bicycle thefts are not of the same significance compared to handphones. In the 1950s, it would be zero handphone theft because no handphone was available.

Sir, on KPIs, the increase in theft and related offences, especially in relation to handphones, is one of the reasons for the increase in the number of seizable offences, as reflected in the KPIs of MHA in the Budget book. Another key reason for this increase is more intensive Police enforcement against drink driving, which reflects the Home Team's commitment to keep our roads safe.

Now, I will address Mr Low Thia Khiang's and Mr Charles Chong's query about the Ministry's KPI indicators specifically. May I say that, except for an increase in the crime trend, the Home Team has met, if not exceeded, most of its key performance targets for FY 2004, and is expected to do as well for 2005 despite heightened security demands and limited resources.

As regards the targets set for the indicators, I should point out that, among the targets for key performance indicators mentioned by Mr Low, two of them were actually revised upwards, not downwards, in 2004. For the "percentage of urgent cases responded to within 15 minutes", the target was revised from 85% to 87%, while the target of "percentage of non-urgent cases responded to within 30 minutes" was raised from 85% to 90%. The upward adjustment was due in part to the sustained period of good performance. While the actual performances on these two indicators from FY03 to FY05 had declined as reflected in the Budget book, they had actually exceeded the performance targets that we set. The targets then set were much lower than 90%. It was adjusted to 90% in 2004 and 2005.

Despite heightened security demands, we have kept these two targets constant since FY04, and we have thus projected at 87% and 90% respectively for FY06. In addition, the target for "percentage of 999 calls answered within 10 seconds" has remained constant and was not adjusted downwards. It remains at a stringent 90% between FY03 and FY05. Although the actual performance for this target actually declined slightly from 99% in FY03 to 97.4% in FY05, which was just a 1.6% point difference, it still exceeded the target set at 90%. So, if you read the data carefully, we are comparing the actual performance in FY03/04 and the target performance in FY05. The target performance actually was just at 90%. We have far exceeded that target and reached 99% and 97.5%. For FY05, it is 90%, and it may hit more than 90%. We will wait for the final figure. I think MPs have therefore misunderstood in their reading of the MHA's KPIs. Notwithstanding this, we will continue to do our best to improve the performance vis-a-vis the targets we have set.

Mr Low also asked if there has been a compromise on our neighbourhood security due to the focus on counter-terrorism and the hosting of high profile international events, like the International Monetary Fund and World Bank meetings. Let me assure Members that we will continue to pay close attention to neighbourhood community policing and security. The Home Team has been able to manage its limited resources effectively so that we can balance the different competing demands while maintaining a high level of operational readiness and effectiveness.

While the headcount policy does impose some constraints on the Police - the Government has a headcount policy which we are also affected - we have been able to manage it quite well. In fact, we are able to manage the increase in demand because of the corporatisation of CISCO. The CISCO was corporatised with effect from last year which means that the spare headcount there could be added on to the MHA headcount. As such, we have kept the manpower resources in the Police relatively stable, at about 8,000 regular Police officers. If we include the National Service and the non-uniformed component because we also have civilian posts in the Police, the Police's strength has actually increased from 35,500 in 2001 to 37,200 in 2005.

Ultimately, what matters is not just having a ubiquitous and pervasive Police presence but the effectiveness of the policing strategy. This is translated into the sense of security that people feel when they walk around Singapore. Safety and security are very valued dimensions in the quality of life in Singapore. In the first nationwide Safety and Security Survey conducted in October 2004, 83% of the respondents felt safe in the neighbourhood they lived in and 70% did not see crime as a problem. Foreigners have consistently provided feedback. They are amazed at how safe they feel when walking on the streets of Singapore in the wee hours of the morning. And they find this all the more impressive because they do not see an overwhelming Police presence. I have met people coming from America who asked me, "How is it we don't see the Police even though Singapore is called a police state by their newspapers?" I have friends coming from Hong Kong who asked me, "How is it that Singapore's crime rate is so low and yet we don't see the Police officers?" That is something quite remarkable because our people play their role and people feel safe, and the Police is effective.

Let me now turn to the gun-related incidents that Ms Indranee Rajah referred to, and Mr Chiam also touched on it. From the data that we have had for the past five years on firearm offences, it appears that the recent gun-related incidents are isolated incidents. Between 2001 and 2005, there were only two cases of firearm offences, one in 2002 and the other in 2003.

While we need not be overly concerned about the violent crimes involving firearms becoming a serious problem in Singapore, we will continue nevertheless to be vigilant and maintain our tough and zero-tolerance stance towards firearm offences. This is backed by the Arms Offences Act, which prescribes heavy punishment, including the death penalty, for offenders convicted of trafficking in arms and committing or attempting to commit scheduled offences with arms.

On the question of loan sharks, which both Dr Tan Boon Wan and Mr Charles Chong mentioned, this is another crime which has an impact on the overall law and order situation in Singapore. Unlicensed moneylending or loan-sharking is a problem perceived by people to be serious. But let me put this in perspective again. Dr Tan Boon Wan asked what is the situation now after the amendments in the Moneylenders Act, which came into force this year. So far, seven people have been charged under the new Moneylenders Act for unlicensed moneylending with two of them also facing additional charges of harassment. Since last year, Police has conducted many operations and, since January this year, Police has conducted three successful operations which led to the arrest of 36 people. Cash amounting to almost $170,000 was seized together with notebooks, desktop computers and mobile phones. These operations have been made possible because the Police has centralised and beefed up its intelligence and enforcement resources under the Anti-Unlicensed Moneylending Taskforce at the Criminal Investigation Department to tackle this scourge.

Sir, the process of taking down an unlicensed moneylending syndicate, or any criminal syndicate for that matter, for example, drug trafficking, requires detailed and lengthy investigations and intelligence gathering. So it will take some time before we can see the full effect of the enhanced efforts to tackle this problem. I say we are making good progress and the overall assessment is that the enhanced penalties under the Moneylenders Act, the use of the Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act, our policy of cancelling passports of convicted or detained higher-tier loan sharks as well as the more intensive enforcement actions by the Police are beginning to have an impact on the ground. Police is also working with the relevant agencies, such as the Law Ministry, the Housing and Development Board and the MAS, to deal with the problem comprehensively. We will continue to put pressure on the loan sharks to make it more difficult for them to operate in Singapore.

Dr Tan also asked about the case of a woman who suffered a miscarriage after confronting a loan shark. At this stage, we are not able to reveal any details on this case because investigations are still going on. But I wish to assure the House that the Police takes a stern view of unlicensed moneylending activities and will not let up on its efforts to bring to justice the culprit of this case and for other cases.

Sir, my Ministry will continue to monitor the crime trends, adjust our crime-fighting strategies and make legislative amendments, if necessary, to enhance deterrence. One of the strategies that the Police will continue to pursue is a strong partnership with the community in preventing crime. The recent partnership with the community went back a long way, and I want to thank the people for their contributions in this community policing.

Police will work with grassroots organisations to promote a greater sense of vigilance in our neighbourhood. In particular, grassroots volunteers,

such as those on the Citizens-on-Patrol (COP) scheme, would be encouraged to pay particular attention to HDB void decks and other common areas during their patrols. Police will also leverage on the Neighbourhood Watch Zone (NWZ) scheme to rope in more residents to help look out for one another and to inform Police of suspicious persons loitering in their neighbourhood.

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The SMS Crime Alert Services is another new initiative by the Police. Under the scheme, Police will send SMS messages to alert community leaders, Neighbourhood Watch Zone volunteers and business associations on salient crime trends. This has been tried out on a pilot basis since August last year, and the Police will consider extending the SMS alert service to the wider community later this year.

The Police is also working with the town councils to install CCTVs in common areas in HDB estates, such as the ground lift landings in void decks, as a crime prevention measure as well as to deter littering and other kinds of localised problems.

In view of the high incidence of crimes involving handphones, the Police is also implementing measures to disrupt the disposal of stolen handphones. Since June 2005, where there are reasons to do so, the Police has checked the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number of the handphones of persons who were stopped by the Police. In April 2006, a website will be set up to enable the public to check if a used handphone they intend to buy has been reported stolen. So, all they need to do is to look up the website, check the IMEI number and they will know whether the phone has been reported as lost.

The Police will step up its public education efforts through a poster advertisement campaign to remind the public to be alert against handphones and other crimes.

Sir, while the crime rate has gone up in 2005, I would say that the overall law and order situation remains well under control. Singapore remains one of the safest cities in the world. The Home Team will continue to work closely with the community to ensure that Singapore remains a safe and secure best home for all. This is because keeping Singapore safe and secure is not just the responsibility of the Ministry of Home Affairs alone. Indeed, public-assisted arrests accounted for 42% of the arrests of criminals involving outraging of modesty, housebreaking, robbery, motor vehicle theft, snatch theft, murder and rape in 2005. I think very few countries in the world could achieve this rate of public-assisted arrests.

Every Singaporean has a part to play, whether it is in making sure that his handphone is not carelessly left around or his home is improperly secured. Every Singaporean can help beat crime by being vigilant and then alerting the Police of any suspicious activity in the neighbourhood.

To summarise, Sir, crime remains a key aspect of the Ministry's focus. This, however, should not and must not detract us from our fight to keep the terrorists out of Singapore and to put in place measures to deal with a terrorist incident, if one ever happens. Sir, low crime does not mean no crime.

Let me now turn to what I consider to be a more important subject, which is homeland security and our measures to deal with the aftermath of a bomb blast, should it happen. Ms Indranee Rajah and Mr Ravindran asked about the latest assessment of the terrorist threat in the region and in Singapore. Mr Ravindran has also asked about the state of cooperation between our intelligence agencies and the Police and their foreign counterparts.

Sir, terrorism remains a serious threat. It is very much alive and it is going to be around for a very long time. Although the efforts of the governments in the region have seen significant successes, extremist terrorism has shown itself to be highly resilient and adaptive. The Al Qaeda is weakened operationally, but its violent ideology continues to infect new groups in the world. In this region, Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) has been weakened and the members are on the run. Its key operatives, such as Hambali, the JI's key point man in Asia of the Al Qaeda, have been arrested, and the JI bomb-maker, Azahari Husin, was killed by the Indonesians in an operation on 9th November 2005. Others, such as Nordin Mohd Top, Dulmatin, Umar Patek and Zulkarnaen, to name just a few, are still active. They are recruiting new suicide bomb-makers and are transferring their terrorist know-how, including bomb-making, to militant groups in Indonesia and Mindanao. So, even if all these leaders are captured or killed, new ones will take their place, not unlike the many-headed hydra snake of the marshes of Lerna in the Greek mythology.

This is because the terrorist training camps, which continue to produce new leaders and operatives for the groups in the region, are still operating, for example, in Mindanao. In fact, in November 2005, the Indonesian authorities discovered an abandoned jungle training camp in Maluku. The instructors at this camp were apparently the graduates of the terrorist academies in Afghanistan and the Philippines. This camp is believed to have provided training on bomb-making and weapons-handling.

The level of cooperation between our Police and the intelligence services with their foreign counterparts, especially those in the region, has grown in strength since 2001. Shared intelligence led to the detection and arrests of several Singaporean JI fugitives, including Arifin Ali in Thailand and, more recently, Mas Selamat in Indonesia. Both of them are now in ISA detention in Singapore.

Besides the sharing of intelligence, the Police and intelligence services also share training and learn from each other's best practices and experience. One of the benefits we have derived from such close relations has been the access that we were given to the different sites where a terrorist incident has happened. Our police officers, for example, were able to go to London immediately after the incident in July last year and learn directly from their London Metropolitan Police counterparts who were handling the investigations. Such timely and first-hand exposure was invaluable to our post-blast investigators. One of our officers was actually part of the team that went into the London Underground where the bomb blast happened.

Ms Indranee Rajah asked if there is a potential danger from home-grown terrorists. The danger is in fact real and it already exists. Nearly all the JI members in detention with us today are Singaporeans. I think all, except one. Many had been involved in various activities to support or prepare for a terrorist attack inside Singapore. Had they succeeded in their plans, we would have had our homegrown terrorists long before the Londoners had. For example, Mas Selamat had planned to hijack and crash an aircraft into the Singapore Changi Airport. Other JI members had been targeting other critical infrastructure and soft targets. The consequences, if they had succeeded, would be very severe.

Sir, although we have disrupted the JI cells in Singapore, we recognise that working with the Muslim community to rehabilitate the detainees and to counter the radical JI ideology are key to fighting this problem. We are not alone in this view. The Zaobao and Today articles on Nasir Abas yesterday is a case in point. Mr Abas was a JI member who confessed that he had trained some of the worst terrorists in our region, including the suicide bombers who mounted the Bali bombing in October 2002. Today, Abas is helping to spread the word in the region that terrorism is wrong and not part of the true teachings of Islam.

We believe that we have broken the JI operations inside Singapore, and the active terrorist threat to Singapore is likely to come from outside our borders. However, we must be mindful that every society has its impressionable and misguided elements and they are therefore vulnerable. All it takes is a handful of such weaker, misguided elements within our society to be indoctrinated by terrorists or extremists with radical ideology to become sympathisers or terrorist elements. Such persons, whether acting on their own or, more likely, in collaboration with militants in the region, will pose a deadly threat to Singapore. This is the reason why several of our Muslim religious leaders have been active in reaching out through forums on subjects like jihad to counter the distortions of extremist teachings. They help to innoculate our people from the influence of terrorist ideology and to raise the level of community vigilance against extremist teachers.

Ms Indranee Rajah and Mr Ahmad Khalis have asked what we have learnt from the terrorist attacks in London, Madrid and Bali and from the recent exercise NorthStar V. Mr Ahmad Khalis also wanted to know the status of readiness of our forces to deal with an incident.

Sir, we have learnt at least two key lessons from the terror attacks in London, Madrid and Bali.

Firstly, it pays to be prepared, and emergency exercises are the best way to get ourselves prepared and operationally-ready to face terror attacks.

Secondly, it was clear that a terrorist attack, especially one which involves homegrown elements, could potentially damage communal relations and social cohesion. I will elaborate later on the Community Engagement Programme which will seek to address this second point. We conducted Exercise NorthStar V on 8th January 2006 to test not only our own emergency response systems but also to sensitise our public and to involve them. Our review of the exercise results gives us confidence that our forces are well prepared. Mr Ian Johnston, the Chief Constable of the British Transport Police, who was an observer at the exercise, commended the high state of readiness of our agencies.

Sir, we will continue to hold regular exercises to keep our emergency responders on their toes. Not all of these exercises need to be on the same scale as Exercise NorthStar V. But we will be exploring ways to have exercises which will involve the public as well as other stakeholders and partners, as we did in NorthStar V.

Sir, several Members have raised issues about our border security. Mr Steve Chia and Mr Charles Chong have expressed concerns on the checkpoint clearance, so has Mr Chiam.

Sir, our land checkpoints are among the busiest in the world. 104 million people and 46 million vehicles passed through the two checkpoints last year. Very few countries have such a high volume of people and vehicular movements. ICA has taken various measures to facilitate and expedite clearance. This includes, for example, the use of pre-registered cards for bus travellers. So, if you are a frequent bus traveller, you can get a pre-registered card. You can then use the automated clearance stations. In the pipeline are efforts to provide the same do-it-yourself (DIY) clearance facilities for bus travellers who are Singaporeans. They can use, for example, their Singapore passports for self-clearance at an automatic immigration clearance station. We will be setting this up soon.

During peak periods, ICA will get more personnel to perform extra shift duties. However, checkpoint officers are trained professionals. They need to be specially skilled in order to do their job well, and the pool of such people is limited. There is, therefore, a limit as to how many more officers we can add during peak times or to recall during peak periods like Christmas eve. Hence, some congestion will be inevitable during festive periods and peak hours. Nevertheless, ICA is exploring various options to enhance a pool of trained part-time staff who can be called upon to help to supplement the manpower resources during such peak periods.

Mr Charles Chong suggested setting a key performance indicator to measure the clearance of travellers and vehicles at our land checkpoints. Sir, I do not think it is appropriate to compare the land checkpoints with the air and sea checkpoints, because the two are totally different systems and the traffic volumes and the patterns of travel are completely different.

The traffic patterns at the land checkpoints are much less predictable compared to the airport and sea checkpoints where there are scheduled arrivals and departures. Nevertheless, let me assure the House that the ICA constantly monitors the flow of travellers and vehicles at the land checkpoints and will take the necessary measures to improve clearance efficiency as much as possible. However, we must also be realistic. Given the volume of traffic at the land checkpoints, we must accept that, even with all the counters manned, there will be some delays, especially when there is a bottleneck

from the surge in traffic numbers occurring at the same time.

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Secondly, whatever ICA does, it must not compromise the current level of security, a concern that takes priority over convenience. This concern was rightly expressed by Ms Indranee yesterday and Mr Chiam earlier on. Our borders remain the frontline of our defence against terrorism and although we know that there is no such thing as a 100% protection, we must do whatever we can to make it difficult for the would-be troublemakers and terrorists.

Ms Rajah and Mr Chiam also expressed concern that the perpetrators of crime and terrorism could slip through our checkpoints undetected. Ms Rajah has also asked for the measures that we have in place to prevent the smuggling of arms and explosives.

Sir, whatever we do, criminals will continue to test our security measures. While many will fail, a small number may succeed. We must learn from the situations where there may have been lapses, and take corrective action. For example, following the escape of Took Leng How through the Woodlands Checkpoint in 2004, Police and ICA jointly reviewed the security systems and put in place additional measures to prevent this from happening again.

To ensure that the checks at the checkpoints remain robust, ICA and Police regularly carry out surprise intrusion tests to assess the security performance of our checkpoints. We also employ a variety of latest inspection technology at our checkpoints, such as gamma ray and radiographic scanners, to prevent smuggling of illicit and prohibited goods in a non-intrusive and expeditious manner. In addition, we are working closely with the industry to tighten regulatory controls over commercially available chemicals that could be used to manufacture improvised bombs, explosives and devices.

As for the recent murder of Lim Hock Soon, the nightclub boss, Police is currently investigating the case. Preliminary investigations revealed that the suspects left Singapore before they could be identified and be linked to the murder. For now, we should let the Police carry out its investigations and not make any further speculation.

Ultimately, Sir, intelligence and information provided by the public are key to preventing the smuggling of firearms and explosives into Singapore. In this regard, members of the public can play their part by being vigilant. They should alert Police or ICA officers if they see any person acting suspiciously or trying to slip in or out of our checkpoints. This will further enhance our security coverage.

Let me now turn to the subject raised by Ms Eunice Olsen concerning the security measures taken at marinas, particularly with regard to pleasure crafts. Travellers on pleasure crafts leaving or arriving Singapore ports are required to proceed to either the gazetted immigration anchorages or the gazetted marinas for immigration clearance. I thank Ms Olsen for her feedback, which I take seriously.

We are reviewing our maritime security measures and practices, including the subject of immigration clearance for such vessels. To enhance security, we presently have a system which tracks closely all vessels, including pleasure crafts, coming into our ports. For smaller vessels below 300 gross tonnage, such as pleasure crafts, we have started to install transponders to allow us to track them within our port limits. Every vessel, large or small, pleasure or not, coming into our territorial waters will be monitored.

The ICA will also require agents or operators at the gazetted marinas to submit pleasure craft's arrival or departure advice, together with the passenger and crew lists for pre-screening of the persons on board. This added requirement by the ICA has ensured that all passengers on board the pleasure craft are thoroughly screened prior to landing and to facilitate detection of unauthorised persons on board on arrival at the marinas.

In addition, the Police Coast Guard patrols keep a close watch at sea and conduct selective checks of vessels based on intelligence and profiling. These checks include face-to-face checks of passengers and physical checks of the vessels. Such checks are important as they prevent the off-loading of illegal immigrants or other undesirable elements within our territorial waters and before the crafts proceed to the gazetted immigration checkpoints. The surprise checks have yielded good results in tightening security. For instance, ICA's Anti-Smuggling Teams have picked up about 120 smuggling cases in 2005. And just last week, we detected a pleasure craft with two crew members who failed to seek immigration departure clearance when it left for fishing activities the day before. Shortly past midnight this morning, the ICA Anti-Smuggling Team detected a vessel carrying about 8,000 cartons of cigarettes and 40 kilogrammes of shag tobacco. A person wanted by CNB and Police was also arrested on board the vessel. Cases like these bear testimony that our stepped-up security efforts have been effective and fruitful in the detection of contraband items and undesirable persons.

On Mr Ong Kian Min's suggestion to introduce smart chips in our NRIC to tighten security for commercial premises, I think there is no need to have the smart chip capability in our NRIC. We have studied this issue before and we think that right now, the technology is such that it is expensive. And in terms of the investment, the money spent, it is not worth the benefit derived from it. We will continue to monitor the development of this technology before we decide whether to use smart chip for NRIC or not. There must also be some uses for the NRIC. The NRIC is not such a "dumb" device, as Mr Ong said. In the NRIC, you will find a magnetic strip. All the building owners need to do is to install the barcode reader and just swipe it through and the building owner or the guard will be able to easily record the particulars of the NRIC holder. All that is already in the NRIC. Building owners need to put in some money to ensure that the buildings are safer.

The points raised by Mr Ong regarding the way the guards conduct their security checks are valid. In fact, the guard that just let go of a person who signs himself in as superman, or as superwoman, ought to be sacked, as it means that he was not doing his job.

We are going to engage building owners. In fact, we have started working with the building owners through the Security Watch Group Scheme. Today, more than 500 buildings are already in the Security Watch Group Scheme. They are improving their standards and the training of the unarmed guard industry. So all guards require training before they can take on the job. In fact, since last year, any person setting up a security guard agency will need to have trained security guards who must have the NSRS qualifications.

Mr Ahmad Khalis asked whether the businesses are prepared for a terrorist attack. Sir, this is the direction we are taking by developing the Security Watch Group Scheme to involve the businesses in security and emergency preparedness. Such businesses or the tenants of a building should also know how to deal with suspicious persons and packages and respond to an incident in the building. Through the Corporate First Responder Scheme, pre-identified tenants will be given access to the cordoned area to execute business continuity recovery plans in the event of a bomb blast incident. This is important because, apart from saving lives, we must also be ready to bring life back to normal. We are progressively rolling out the scheme to all members of the Security Watch Group. Ultimately, building owners and their tenants must take greater ownership of their own security because the cost to them is much higher if a terrorist attack takes place, as compared to the cost of implementing security measures and hiring better guards.

Sir, now on community engagement. What we have done so far are the hard measures that the Government can take or has taken to prevent a terrorist attack. I have said before that the Government would do its very best to harden Singapore against terrorist attacks. I have also said before that our Government agencies will prepare themselves to the utmost in order to deal with a terrorist attack, particularly in the recovery situation, when a bomb blast happens. But what I have also said before is: are our people equally prepared? I think right now, we still have work to do. Our people themselves must deal with such a situation should they arise. The most significant issue that we have to deal with is the possible rising of communal tensions and the fray in our social cohesion. That is the part which our people should think very carefully about because in the event of a bomb blast, how will they respond to such a situation if they are not prepared? That is an effort which we will be embarking on in the next one year or so.

It is the people that defeat terrorists and terrorism, not Government alone because they are the ones on the ground. They are the ones who know their neighbours, they are the ones who should know what goes on as well. They are the ones who must recover from an attack and not be cowed by it. They must rise above the situation and get back to life as normal and be psychologically resilient. For our multi-racial society, that is particularly important because any incident may fray communal tension and that is a key lesson we learn in other countries, when they have a bomb attack, for example, in London.

Mdm Ho Geok Choo and Mr Ahmad Khalis have asked about the Community Engagement Programme. Ms Indranee Rajah and Mr Ravindran have also asked about how our community leaders and the members of the public should react to a terrorist incident. I am glad they asked because it gives me a chance to say a bit more.

Mdm Ho is correct to point out that the key concern is, even if we have a community engagement, can it be sustained? That is the reason why I said that it is not just the Government that works at it. It must come from the people and they must sustain it and we will help them to sustain it. We will build on the current programmes such that they do not start afresh all of a sudden. There are already many structures, organisations, may efforts ongoing. And, in fact, we started this way back since the 1964 riots.

But we need to constantly review, update and improve on them. New people take on leadership positions. New people need to know one another. And that is the kind of network that we need to build amongst our leaders in the various organisations. I am not just talking about grassroots organisations, because community organisations are more than just grassroots organisations that the PA runs. It involves all sectors of our people, whether they are unionists, employers, clan leaders, chambers of commerce or even in schools, for example, there is a big network of organisations and people that we must tap on. The question is how to link these various centres of leadership together such that they know one another so well that they can pick up a phone, see the person and talk to the person and say, "Let us do this and calm the ground, should a bomb happen." And many of our community organisations like the voluntary welfare organisations, the ethnic-based organisations, the religious organisations, they too play a very important role in this.

So it is not just the Government's role and I would prefer that such an engagement programme comes from the bottom. They give us ideas, we help them piece together, we help them connect. Then, we will run sessions, courses, seminars, forums, to ensure that we keep updated and keep current on the terrorist threat issue. It is only when they own it that they will feel that they have a responsibility to carry it through. If it is dictated from the top and by the Government, they will say, "Let me wait for the Government to tell me what to do." So I would like to reach that situation where the people exercise initiative. Of course, we will work with them to make sure that they do.

In a terrorist incident, should it happen, the people must first know what to do. They are the people on the ground. Let us, say, a bomb blast happens. If they all leave the scene, that leaves the scene quite free for the security forces to move in and investigate. But there could be situations where they can help. For example, when somebody is injured, that somebody needs help to be brought up, whether it is in an MRT station, bus or in any place, he needs to be moved away from the scene

of the blast to avoid further danger. So members of the public who are there ought to help. We have seen this in other countries. And, in the case of London, for example, it is the first responder, not the government, their police or ambulances, but the people who were there in the same tunnel were the ones who helped one another. So, I am very happy to see that, indeed, we do have such people on the ground. As when they see an incident, whether it is a traffic accident, we have people coming forward and help, and that is the kind of spirit that we want our people to have.

1.15 pm

Mdm Ho talks about getting women involved. Of course, we cannot forget the other half of our population. We have, I think, 51% women in our population, slightly surpassing the men in terms of numbers. They have a very important role to play. And as for the suggestion that all women should learn first aid skill, yes, I encourage that. We will try to facilitate that. In fact, the SCDF does run courses on first aid. I am very happy to read recently when the newspaper reported that a very young lady, 17 years old, Ms Esther Tan, who responded to a man gasping for air. She went to give him CPR before the ambulance arrived. I think that is a remarkable act and I hope more people will take up such life-saving skills.

It is not just the SCDF who can run such first-aid courses. We have many other organisations. The Red Cross can do so too. So do St John's. They too can play their roles in helping to educate the people on first aid and CPR.

Recently, I attended a women's Seminar on Terrorism and Emergency Preparedness. Ms Indranee invited me because this seminar was led by our group of women MPs and 400 other women leaders also attended it. The participants were given hands-on training on first aid and fire-fighting. I hope more of them will come and join us and we will try to do our best to accommodate their training needs.

So the long and short of community engagement is that we need time to work on it. I hope we had done this two years ago. In fact, we had done it 40 years ago but I hope that we had carried on improving on it. It is not too late, but let us start now. I would hope that our people and leaders in the various positions would take an active interest in this.

Sir, given the long-term terrorist threat that we face, the fall-out from a terrorist attack on our social cohesion as a multi-ethnic society can be very significant. Therefore, the Community Engagement Programme aims to ensure that communal relations in Singapore can withstand the strain of a terrorist attack. What we do today would increase and strengthen the network of trust and bond for the community, which will determine how quickly we, as a society, recover from such an attack. The Government will work closely with the community to coordinate, facilitate and provide support. The Government will also expand and deepen the network of community partners engaged under this programme.

Mr Low Thia Khiang (Hougang): I would like to seek a clarification from the Minister.

The Chairman: Let Prof. Ho speak first.

The Senior Minister of State for Home Affairs (Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee): Sir, first let me respond to Ms Indranee Rajah's and Mr Charles Chong's queries on child sex tourism and the Penal Code review.

Ms Rajah expressed the concern regarding the sexual exploitation of minors. Sir, I share her concerns. We have and will continue to prosecute offenders with the full extent of the law. We are also exploring other ways to enhance protection of minors who, because they lack maturity, are especially vulnerable to exploitation. The Inter-Agency Committee on review of sexual offences, which I chair, has been studying this issue.

First, let me address the problem of young persons engaging in prostitution. While prostitution is not an offence in Singapore, young persons should be protected from providing sexual services. Being more easily influenced, their consent can be impaired. As such, they are more vulnerable to being trafficked, controlled and exploited by pimps and traffickers who prey on them and live off their earnings. The existing legal age of consent for sexual activities is 16 years. Although there is no evidence to suggest that there is a problem of significant numbers of 16 and 17 year olds engaging in prostitution in Singapore, there should be a higher age of protection for commercial sexual activities. As such, Sir, we intend to make it an offence for any person to purchase sexual services from another person who is under 18 years of age. Other countries, such as the UK and New Zealand have adopted a similar approach. This move is part of the wider approach we are adopting to protect young persons against engaging in commercial sexual activities and possible exploitation and not specifically in response to the possible sexual victimisation of the young via the Internet which Ms Indranee had touched on.

Sir, next, I would deal with the issue of child sex tourism. Sir, child sex tourists take advantage of the inability or unwillingness of the host country to prosecute them. I think, Ms Indranee Rajah, in fact, gave a picture of who these people may be, who may look innocuous on the outside but terrible inside. Meanwhile, very often, prosecution at home is constrained by the lack of jurisdiction as most countries do not extend extra-territorial jurisdiction over sexual offences. Presently, Singaporeans who have sex with minors in other countries cannot be prosecuted in Singapore as our courts do not have jurisdiction over them. Members had earlier urged the Government to stop our nationals from preying on minors in other countries by denying them a safe haven through enacting legislation with extra-territorial effect. Sir, we have taken note of these views and have factored them into our review. The Inter-Agency Committee has studied laws governing sex with minors overseas in other countries. Countries that have extended jurisdiction overseas include Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, UK and the US.

Sir, while we do not condone sexual exploitation of minors in other countries by our nationals, we also recognise that if extra-territorial jurisdiction is introduced, it would be challenging to investigate and prosecute cases involving offences committed by Singaporeans in other countries. Ms Rajah mentioned some of these obstacles yesterday in this House, such as language barriers and the different local conditions, making it difficult to trace and interview foreign witnesses and to gather evidence. The Singapore Police has no powers of investigation overseas and would have to rely principally on the cooperation of its foreign counterparts. Sir, I have explained these difficulties in Parliament, taking the opportunity also to urge host countries to do their part to toughen their laws and enforce them vigorously. At the same time, I said that we will continue to study the issue and monitor developments in other countries.

Our point was that efforts in this regard must be a collaborative one. Enacting extra-territorial laws by itself is no panacea. Sir, I am happy to note that what we said in Parliament, our exchanges galvanised action on several fronts. But still, despite the constraints and difficulties, we recognise that having sex with minors anywhere is, indeed, deplorable. Hence, the Government has decided to amend our laws to extend extra-territorial jurisdiction over our nationals who sexually exploit minors overseas. I agree with Ms Rajah that by doing so we send a strong signal that we are against this appalling act and, hopefully, it will also act as a deterrent.

The measures against child sex tourism will be introduced as part of the legislative changes that we will make once we have completed the review of the Penal Code, a pet topic of Mr Charles Chong who has asked once again for an update. Sir, this review has taken a long time. It has been prolonged because, I am sure Mr Chong understands, the Penal Code with more than 500 sections is a very important piece of legislation and we want to be as thorough as possible in reviewing it. After all, this is the first comprehensive, holistic review of the Penal Code that we have undertaken for a long time. Moreover, the review has stretched out because, as we went along, new issues surfaced. For example, the impact of technology such as the Internet and mobile phones which have become an integral part of the lifestyle in Singapore and which is increasingly employed by criminals to perpetrate their criminal activities, has delayed our progress somewhat. But, let me assure Mr Chong that we will indeed be completing our review soon. Thereafter, as I have said, we intend to carry out a public consultation exercise at which time Mr Chong and other members of the public, including the Law Society, would be welcome to give their comments.

Sir, let me now move on to the topic of youth crime and our recently announced initiative to keep our youths safe, which Mr Tan Soo Khoon had alluded to in his speech. Last year, nearly 4,600 youths were arrested - actually it is a drop of some 8% from the year before. Youth crime statistics for rioting, shop and other thefts, actually fell 16% and 3% respectively, last year compared to the year before. Hence, let me assure Mr Fong that our youth gang situation is under control. I am happy to assure him that his hypothesis that there may be a "staggering number" of youth gang members in Singapore, does not accord with reality. But I have said many times before that every youth crime is one crime too many. Moreover the drop of 8% is only for one year. Before that, for two to three years, the number of youths arrested actually was rising, so it is not time to bring out the beer, not the time to celebrate yet. Beer is something that Mr Loh Meng See has talked about just now. So we will not drink beer here. Nevertheless, although the youth crime situation has improved, from 2004 to 2005, youths continue to be involved in shop thefts and other thefts and also rioting ,and youths are also victims of offences, such as snatch theft, robbery, rioting and outraging of modesty, where the numbers have increased. This is a phenomenon that bears study. The increase in the number of youth victims of snatch theft and robbery can be mainly attributed to more youths being targeted for handphones.

Mr Fong has suggested inculcating in students an understanding of the consequences of committing crime. That is a good point. Indeed, let me assure Mr Fong that we have been doing this through the Inter-Ministry Committee on Youth Crime (IMYC) which I chair. So, for example, 2004, IMYC launched the Prison Visit Education Programme for Schools (PVEPS), a joint project involving the Police, MOE and the Prisons Department. Under this programme, at risk youths in schools are sent to the prisoners' living environment, taste the food that the prisoners eat and also get locked up in the prison cell for a while. They also witness a mock caning, all of which, I am sure, has a sobering experience. Mr Fong suggests that we extend this to all students. Let me say that this will certainly stretch the Prison's resources. I do not think there is a need for us to do that. It is a focused approach where resources are maximised and it will dilute our message if we let all the students undergo this.

Also in 2004, IMYC commissioned a series of road shows in schools. This was something special because we made it a point to make the road shows interactive, engaging the students. So that is our approach, something that Mr Tan also mentioned, that with youths we cannot have a talk down approach, we should engage them, we should ensure that they understand what adults like us are doing. And that specifically was how the road shows were rolled out two years ago and continue to be rolled out - interactive, participative, engaging them.

In March this year, the Police and the NPCC also piloted the NPCC Police Youth Ambassador Programme, where NPCC cadets will be equipped with crime prevention and problem solving skills. With these skills the cadets will help to impart crime prevention messages to their peers and assist the schools in addressing youth-related issues. Thirty-two secondary schools would be participating in the pilot phase.

I am happy to report that there are also other partners involved. For example, the Law Society has been holding its Law Awareness Project through talks, the launching of a newsletter and also a website. They inject their expertise by informing youths and young people about the consequences of their crime, and that is Mr Fong's point, not just the legal consequences but the social and personal consequences of what they do. And, indeed, the Singapore Association of Women Lawyers actually published a very good useful "Teens and the Law" handbook which talks directly to the students. My point is that we are all doing our part to help our youths realise their full potential and to also extend helping hands to those at risk and who may fall into trouble. But Mr Tan has rightly mentioned that parents are a pivotal group and this is what the recent initiative was actually meant to do - to partner parents, to let them know that we are partners with them and, through this measure, through the knowledge of information given to them, that they could be more effective as a parent.

1.30 pm

Let me first say that Police already conducts checks on youths found congregating in public areas after 11.00 pm, basically to prevent them from getting into trouble, either as victims or perpetrators of crime. Last year, during the school holidays, some 15,000 checks were conducted. So, it is nothing new in terms of conducting these checks. Over this period of time, Police has already developed some expertise. It is not intimidating or talking down to youths in a heavy handed manner. It is what Police calls, "engaging them in conversation" - basically, to ask them what they are doing, and also to alert them of the dangers that they face. They may be very well meaning and law abiding. But, sometimes, even females, being in a very quiet place at 2.00-3.00 am, and especially in a crime-prone area, I think that is the least Police can do.

Sir, what Police is now doing is really a logical step up - scaling up of what they have been doing - which is to inform parents, not in every case, in those situations that I have mentioned, that their child has been found in this area. This is just to inform them, and leave the rest to parents. If they know about it, that is fine. If they know about it and want to do a bit more by talking to the child, that is fine. If they do not know about it, I think it is good for parents to know. And, indeed, the letter that goes out will be signed by the CO of the NPC indicating the time, date, the details of the check and also a telephone number that the parents can call if they want to get more information from the Police. So it is really a partnership that I think will help us manage youth crime better.

Could it have been better publicised? This news came out when Police gave a briefing on the crime statistics. It was not a press release as such. But in the process of discussing the youth situation and what more can be done, the Police informed the media about this measure. I think the presentation by the media may have, in a way, caused some people to think that it was a ban or curfew. It was never intended to be a ban or curfew, and that is why the Police had to clarify.

Sir, let me just reiterate here that parents out there - all of us are parents - I think we can do more. Indeed, this is what the MCYS has been doing for many years, reaching out to parents through school talks, camps and so forth. Really, this new measure is just another plank in our package of measures that should help us to tackle this problem better.

Mr Chiam See Tong says why not reinstate the Boys' Clubs. Mr Chiam made this call in 1997 and I responded to him - to explain to him that there was no need for the Boys' Clubs, because the clubs had outlived their usefulness. They had been replaced by the People's Association's T-Net Club. Over these years, more T-Net Clubs have emerged and reaching out to a larger group of youths, and a bigger spread of youths and promoting the things that Mr Chiam talked about - social values, self-esteem, social skills and also keeping them away from danger zones.

Sir, I think this is the way to go. And do not forget, since 1997, in fact, new youth organisations have emerged. MCYS has been working with many of these organisations and the partners of MCYS, which include police officers on the ground who will then interact with these youth organisations in a very natural and complementary way to ensure that our youths are healthily engaged. There is really no need to reinstate the Boys' Clubs.

Mr Fong asked about our efforts in helping ex-offenders reintegrate into society so as to prevent them from being dragged into a vicious cycle of criminalisation. Mr Fong asked about the recidivism rate. First, let me say, at the outset, that MHA is committed to assisting ex-offenders reintegrate back into society. Working closely with community partners again, our reintegration efforts begin from the time the offenders serve their sentence in prison and continue after their release.

During incarceration, offenders acquire useful skills through employment and workshops. Currently, 26 firms operate different industries in prisons employing more than 2,000 offenders. Offenders also enhance their employability and educational qualifications through literacy and vocational courses. In the year 2005, more than 4,000 offenders were trained in areas such as landscaping, cleaning, IT skills and food preparation.

Upon release, an ex-offender who requests for aftercare support will be given counselling and assistance by the Community Action for the Rehabilitation of Ex-Offenders (CARE) network, again comprising key partners like SCORE, SANA and so forth. At the same time, SCORE assists in the job placement of offenders as well as ex-offenders - with offenders being placed under various work release schemes.

Last year, SCORE offered employment assistance to almost 3,000 offenders and ex-offenders. To further enhance the assistance provided, SCORE launched an online drop portal in September last year. Thus far, 443 employees have registered and 343 job vacancies have been posted online. In total, 1,473 employers are registered with SCORE's job bank - up from 1,381 the year before.

Sir, let me now give a brief update on the amendment we made last year to the Registration of Criminals Act where, by now, ex-offenders with spent records can declare in the job application forms that they do not have any criminal record. Since the scheme came into effect last year in October, about 114,000 ex-offenders have had their criminal records rendered spent. An estimated 6,000 ex-offenders will benefit annually from this scheme. As promised, when I moved the amendment Bill, MHA subsequently engaged the business community to get their support for this major initiative. We conducted a study to determine employers' attitude towards the hiring of ex-offenders and held a workshop with employers to discuss the findings. Leading by example, as announced earlier by Minister Teo Chee Hean, the Government has decided to amend its application forms. So that will help ex-offenders with spent records. Basically, we have now taken the lead. Some employers have done it. I take this opportunity to urge more employers to come on board and to also take that step.

On our part, MHA, as a Ministry, has also been working on an e-portal to allow those who think they may benefit from the scheme to verify whether they have a criminal record that has been rendered as spent. And this system will come into operation within the next one or two months.

Sir, we all know that Government's efforts alone are not enough. Employers, families and society at large must all play a part to change mindsets about ex-offenders. For those determined to change for the better, we must extend helping hands, recognising it is the CARE network that launched the Yellow Ribbon project in the year 2004 - another ground-breaking initiative. This project has grown from strength to strength. For example, a Yellow Ribbon fare was held in the prison complex for the first time last year. 238 pre-release offenders took part in the job fare and 175 were offered jobs on the same day. I am particularly pleased that the Yellow Ribbon project has galvanised community action. I know of several groups, including employers and tertiary institution students, who have been inspired by the message behind the Yellow Ribbon to unlock the second prison, and they have come on board. I think that is wonderful. In particular, I want to thank the 125 new employers who offered jobs to ex-offenders last year. Because I have said in Parliament before that getting new employers to come on board is one key strategy that we must pursue more vigorously in the future.

Mr Fong asked about the recidivism rate. I am happy to share that all these efforts have resulted in lower recidivism rates which have declined steadily over the past few years. In 1998, the recidivism rate peaked at 44.4%. In other words, for every 100 released prisoners, about 50 returned to crime within two years. But, today, the recidivism rate for the 2003 cohort - two-year span - has improved to 24.9%, the lowest rate thus far.

Sir, in my remaining time, let me now deal with the other topics raised by Members. First, Mr Fong talked about the question of emergency vehicles - how we can educate Singaporeans to give way to these vehicles. I agree that public education is important, and we must get the maximum cooperation from our motoring public. This is why the importance of doing so is covered in the basic theory of driving handbook, the advanced theory of driving handbook as well as the riding theory handbook. As part of the training syllabus, the three driving schools, as well as private driving instructors, are also required to teach all learner drivers about the requirement to give way to an emergency vehicle. In addition, questions regarding this rule are included in the driving and riding theory tests, which all motorists are required to pass before they are allowed to obtain the licence.

Apart from educating learner drivers, Traffic Police also constantly reminds motorists of their obligation to give way to emergency vehicles through road safety talks, especially those targeted at private companies and Government agencies which own large fleets of vehicles, such as Chevron Texaco and SAF. So it is a targeted approach. 68 such road safety talks were conducted in 2005, reaching to a total of about 10,000 drivers and riders. I thank Mr Fong for highlighting this point. This is one area that Singaporeans can do more about, and let us all continue to press home this message.

Mr Ahmad Khalis would like to know whether the fire situation is improving and what more can be done through public education efforts. Fire incidents have been declining over the past 10 years, from a high of over 6,700 fires in 1997 to 4,600 fires in 2003, down 30%. In 2004, the number of fire incidents increased by 8% to some 4,916 fires; and last year, there was a marginal increase of 3% to 5,039 fires. Last year, indeed, the marginal increase was attributed mainly to vegetation fires which, I am sure Mr Khalis remembers, besieged us for a while in the beginning part of the year. But residential and non-residential related fires actually fell by 5% and 7% respectively last year, compared to the year before.

Sir, the fire situation has improved. And, again, like in the other areas that MHA is involved in, basically, it is because of a complementary partnership approach. Here, it is spearheaded by the National Fire Prevention Council which works with many agencies on the ground. I think many Members would know of these agencies, such as the Civil Defence Executive Committees (CDEC) and Community Emergency Response Teams (CERTs). For example, last year, in particular, home fire safety visits were conducted under the programme launched earlier on in August 2003. CDEC members and CD volunteers went house to house to promote fire safety tips and help residents identify potential fire hazards in their homes and, specifically, to address rubbish chute fires, which is something of concern, not because they are dangerous but because of the numbers. More than one-third of residential fires were rubbish chute fires. The SCDF and NFPC rolled out a public education programme in three housing blocks with high incidence of such fires. Here again, SCDF and CDEC members visited homes specifically to educate and to encourage them to desist from this act.

What is the SCDF's target for making Singapore households emergency trained? The target set by SCDF is to train at least one member per household in civil defence skills - first aid and other essential knowledge - to survive an emergency. The Minister has already said some of these programmes which have been launched by the SCDF, both in conjunction with the terrorism outreach as well as all the efforts throughout the year. And, indeed, the lady, Esther Tan, a 17-year-old girl, actually had picked up her CPR skills in one of the courses conducted by the SCDF. We never know when her skills can come in handy. I think her case, hopefully, will inspire more Singaporeans to learn basic skills.

The SCDF is also targeting the young as part of its effort to have more Singaporeans emergency trained. Last year, SCDF and MOE initiated the National Civil Defence Corps in 12 secondary schools spearheaded by Mr Charles Chong. The aim is to impart civil defence skills amongst our youths to nurture and develop them into resilient and responsible citizens. This has been well received and we intend now to have more schools come on board. Since then, SCDF and MOE have introduced the uniformed group to seven more schools this year.

Let me now answer Dr Maliki's two points. He makes the first point about Subutex abuse and the second point about foreign spouses of Singaporeans who are here. First, Subutex is, let me say, a prescription drug registered by the Health Sciences Authority for the treatment of opiate dependence. It is regulated by the Ministry of Health under the Medicines Act and Poisons Act. Since the abuse of Subutex first came to CNB's attention in late 2003, CNB has been working with MOH to explore possible measures to tackle the problem. Last year, in November, MOH issued a set of clinical practice guidelines on the treatment of opiate dependence to doctors. For example, doctors who wish to prescribe Subutex must undergo an 8-hour training course on opiate withdrawal and replacement therapy conducted by the Community Addictions Management Programme (CAMP) at the IMH. At the same time, MOH has also set up a Central Addiction Registry for Drugs (CARDs), an online registry which allows the central monitoring

of all Subutex prescriptions to patients. Doctors who prescribe Subutex are required to register their prescriptions in CARDS. So in this way, doctors can monitor whether their patients are doctor-hopping.

Notwithstanding these control measures implemented by MOH, CNB is keeping a close watch on the situation. The number of Subutex tablets seized monthly has increased from a high of more than 500 tablets in July last year to 180 tablets in December last year. The number of public complaints and information received by CNB on Subutex abuse has also come down to 19 in December from a high of 31 in November last year.

Dr Maliki has asked whether Subutex will be classified as a controlled drug under the MDA. Given that MOH's control measures were implemented recently in November last year, I think we should allow some time for the measures to take effect and then we can assess. But let me assure Dr Maliki that CNB remains vigilant and we will not hesitate to make Subutex a controlled drug, if the need arises.

Dr Maliki's second topic is on immigration and he has asked about the impact of our policies on immigration facilities for foreign spouses of Singapore and how we can better educate Singaporeans on the requirements. First, let me assure Dr Maliki that our policies on long term immigration facilities take into account the preservation of family unity. We are mindful of the need to manage this carefully, as the proportion of marriages involving a Singaporean and a foreign spouse has increased from about 21% in the year 2003 to almost 30% last year.

But the Member well knows that marriage to a Singaporean does not automatically guarantee that the foreign spouse would be granted long-term immigration facilities. However, even in cases where the foreign spouse is not eligible for Permanent Residence, we would still consider granting the foreign spouse a Long Term Social Visit Pass to enable him or her to remain in Singapore.

So essentially, we need to ensure that foreigners given PR status do not become a burden to the State. Basically, citizens and Permanent Residents sponsoring their foreign spouses or children of PR would need to show that they are able to support them financially. Nevertheless, as I have said earlier, ICA adopts a sensitive and calibrated approach. And based on ICA's records, the approval rates for PR and Long Term Social Visit Pass applications for foreign spouses have been relatively stable for the past three years, at 60% for PR cases and 85% for Long Term Social Visit Pass cases. So where appropriate, ICA now also has been providing applicants with the reasons for rejection, to help them understand what they can do to improve their eligibility when they re-apply.

Sir, in short, ICA's guidelines governing the grant of long-term immigration facilities to foreign spouses are sufficiently compassionate to allow deserving spouses to stay in Singapore. We will be keeping in mind the importance of sustaining their marriage and supporting family cohesion.

Now, let me take Mr Loh Meng See's topic which is my last topic before my colleague, Mr Maidin, covers other aspects on the training and the professionalism of the Police Force. Mr Loh Meng See's query is whether liquor licences are being issued too liberally, especially to provision shops and coffeeshops. First, let me assure Mr Loh that Police takes a very careful approach in this because every application is assessed by Police. So it is not a liberal approach. Police takes into consideration factors, such as the location of the store and background of the applicant. Since 1999, our figures showed only a very gradual increase of about 2.5% per year for all liquor licences. So let me assure Mr Loh that there is no liberal policy when it comes to issuing liquor licences.

Moreover, the issuance of a liquor licence is subject to conditions relating to the sale of the liquor. Perhaps, for example, in HDB estates where neighbourhood provision shops and coffeeshops are located, sale of liquor is prohibited beyond midnight, or in some cases, 1.00 am. A licensee is also prohibited from supplying intoxicating drinks to any drunken person or contribute to situations of drunkenness and disorderly conduct, such as brawls on the premises. And to ensure full compliance with licensing conditions, Police will keenly conduct checks on licensees. So licensees who breach these conditions may have their licences suspended or revoked. So the licences are issued with conditions and checks are carried out.

Mr Loh asked if we can consider for Police or the Liquor Licensing Board to consult the grassroots leaders who can raise objections before an application is approved. If we do that, my guess is that most grassroots leaders would say, no. Because it is a facility where they want accessibility, but not near enough because it causes problems for residents. When that happens, then Police and the Liquor Licensing Board will be in a dilemma. Then, it would be difficult for this aspect of Singapore life to function properly. I think we should leave things as they are. I accept the point that there must be dialogue and consultation should problems arise. Because after all, the grassroots leaders know the situation and their help is invaluable in tackling problems that arise. And I concede the point that in Mr Loh's ward, because of the congregation of the foreign workers, he has the problems of noise, maybe some brawls and perhaps blocking a passageway. And Mr Loh himself will know that, over the years, Police has been working very closely with the grassroots leaders under the CSSP project that harks back four to five years, to ensure that the foreign workers who are enjoying their day of rest, particularly on weekends, will not cause undue and excessive problems with residents. So measures have been taken.

Sir, this is an approach that we must continue to press on. But I would encourage Mr Loh to continue to work with the Police and, indeed, let me know what other measures Police can take to help him manage this problem better.

The Chairman: Mr Maidin, you have 18 minutes 4 seconds left.

The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Home Affairs (Encik Mohamad Maidin B P M): Sir, I will now respond to some of the questions raised by Members concerning their Neighbourhood Police Centre (MPC) system, Home Team training and professionalism raised by Dr Maliki, Mr Ravindran and Mdm Ho Geok Choo yesterday.

Firstly, Sir, Dr Maliki raised some questions about the NPC system and the level of Police presence on the ground. Sir, the transition from the Neighbourhood Police Post (NPP) system to the NPC system started back in 1997 when the first NPC was established and was completed in 2001. It was a strategic move by the Police to evolve and keep pace with the changes in the operating environment, and to improve the system of community policing.

Currently, there is a nationwide network of about 32 NPCs supported by 65 Neighbourhood Police Posts (NPPs). Under the NPC system, the NPPs still retain an operational role and have not been completely replaced. Overall, the number of service points has not changed significantly under the two systems. There were 98 fixed service points under the previous system compared to 97 fixed service points today, comprising NPCs and NPPs.

The operating hours of the existing NPPs have been shortened to allow for the redeployment of more officers for patrol duties during periods of lull activity at NPPs, in other words, more officers are being released to do patrol work. This means their presence is more visible in the neighbourhood, rather than reduced.

Dr Maliki has also asked about the number of personnel assigned to police our housing estates under the NPP and NPC systems. Sir, prior to the implementation of the NPC system, a total of 2,210 officers would patrol the total land area of Singapore. Under the current system, this number increased to 2,761 officers, or an increase of more than 500 officers, or about 25%. This works out to a ratio of about one officer serving 1,580 residents as opposed to 1,700 in 1997. This was achieved, although our population has increased from around $3.8 million to $4.35 million last year. The increase in the number of officers is achieved through the optimisation of our police resources, including better utilisation of our full-time Police NSmen to complement the regulars in frontline duties. The number of Police cars on patrol at any one time has more than doubled from 45 to 96, giving an average of three for each of the 32 NPCs. Furthermore, in addition to the frontline NPC officers, we now also have strategic reserve forces from Special Operations Command and Key Installation Command, making regular patrols in designated areas to project greater Police visibility.

Sir, it might however be recognised that effective policing is not determined solely by the number of police posts or police officers on the ground. The public, as explained earlier, has a crucial role to play as well. The cornerstone of our NPC system is the focus on developing community leadership and responsibility for the safety and security of the neighbourhoods. In particular, the Community Safety and Security Programme (CSSP) and the Neighbourhood Watch Zones serve as useful platforms for the Home Team to connect with the grassroots leaders and residents to tackle local safety and security issues.

Dr Maliki also asked about the key performance indicators (KPIs) of our NPCs. Sir, the performance of the NPCs is measured under various KPIs, such as crime rates, response time and community engagement, which should reflect the corresponding emphasis on the NPC system. We monitor these KPIs closely and there have been improvements in several areas.

For CSSP, for example, the number has gradually increased over the years from around 492 in 1999 to 695 last year. And since the implementation of the NPC, we see more members of the public coming forward to assist the Police in apprehending criminals. This percentage of public assistance, as mentioned by the Minister earlier, reached 42% last year. It was about 30% in 1996.

Sir, on the question of how the crime rate has changed since the switch from the NPP system, let me say that this is not a very meaningful comparison as the crime rate is influenced by many different factors, social economic factors and all, and it would not be correct to attribute changes in the crime rate solely to our move to the NPC system.

Sir, Mr Ravindran and Mdm Ho have requested for an update on the training of Police officers. I am happy to inform the House that beyond enhancing its operational capabilities, Police has continued to place strong emphasis on the training of its officers to ensure that they are equipped with the necessary skills and knowledge to cope with today's policing environment.

Over and above the basic training, special groups of officers are provided with advanced training in skills that are becoming increasingly critical for tackling the latest crime and terrorism challenges. This includes computer forensic skills for investigating cyber-crimes and post-blast investigations skills for dealing with terrorist bomb attacks. With the migration of the Police Academy to the new Home Team Academy early this year, the training of our Police officers will be supported by even better facilities, including a Training Village, where a realistic scenario based training will be conducted. Police officers will also be able to attend various

advanced developmental courses there. While we cannot substitute for experience, we believe that enhancements to training content and training methodology, coupled with the wider use of tools, such as After Action Review, will enable our police officers to discharge their duties effectively. In addition, the Home Team will explore how we can tap on the experiences of suitable retired officers, such as re-employing them as instructors in the Home Team Academy, so that their experiences will not be lost. Mr Ravindran mentioned that if an officer dies today after 30 years of service, all his experiences will be lost. If we compare one-to-one, maybe we will get worried, because someone with such vast experiences will retire and a new rookie will come in, without experience and almost "blur". But in reality, that is not true. If someone with 30 years' experience retires today, there is another guy with maybe 29, 28 or 25 years of experience. In other words, the full force of the police team has people with varied experience. We will try to tap the experiences of those who have left. I must mention that the new Home Team Academy also has what we call the Knowledge Depository Branch. They will help young officers to get to know better on what has happened, what we have gone through. This institutional memory will be passed on to the newer officers.

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Sir, Mdm Ho also suggested that police officers today should receive special training to deal with youths. Dealing with youths is not something entirely new for our officers. The police has various procedures in place to assist our officers to engage the young ones. These procedures have been designed so that we will not alienate our youths but, in fact, to reflect the authority and, where possible, befriend them, because the police officers are there to assist them in whatever ways to look after the young and protect them from possible crime. There are instructions on how police officers handle different categories of people, such as the young or those in the category of being a suspect or non-suspect. They will know how to handle these cases.

Sir, we will also take up Mdm Ho's suggestion to extend such training to officers in other Home Team departments who have to interact with youths. Indeed, one of the reasons for setting up the Home Team Academy is for the Home Team departments to share their core expertise with one another.

I am also pleased to inform Mdm Ho that we will be launching a Behavioural Sciences Programme, which would be spearheaded by the Police Psychological Services Division. The programme will develop the knowledge and skills of our Home Team officers in the specialised area of behavioural sciences. Tie-ups or collaborations with external institutions of higher learning and research institutes will certainly be something that we will explore.

Mdm Ho also noted that the law enforcement officers today have to strike a balance between protecting the wider interests of society and that of the individual. Indeed, the police is very mindful of the need to manage this delicate balance. I would like to assure Members that the police will continue to improve the training of our officers so that it remains a professional outfit that is capable of meeting evolving challenges in crime and terrorism.

Sir, in conclusion, I would like to state that the Home Team will continue to strive for excellence in upholding our mission to provide a safe and secure best home for all Singaporeans.

The Chairman: We have some time left under this Head. I will allow clarifications but no speeches. Mr Low.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, listening to the Deputy Prime Minister's reply, I wonder what is the message that DPM wishes to send to the police. Is he saying that counter-terrorism is the focus now and not crime-busting? DPM seems to attribute the increased crime rate to victims being careless. I would like to seek clarification from him that is this the new philosophy of the police in dealing with crime rates. Is he saying, for example, that if a person is being robbed, it is because the person is careless, that he or she walks into the path of the robber? Or if the pocket is being picked, is he saying that the person is careless because his pocket is not deep enough?

Sir, the last clarification I have is on crime rate. The fact is that the crime rate has been going up. But DPM, based on his macro-assessment, says that it is not really a problem because generally we are still a very safe society. What is the correlation between crime statistics and social safety? Can he clarify that, because I am a bit "blur" with that?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, Mr Low is seldom "blur". I do not know whether he is "blur" here because he wants to blur the situation. On the message I am sending, am I telling our police officers that busting crime is no more important but put all their time on to counter terrorism? I did not say that. What I am saying is that the focus of the MPs' speeches, and as reported in the English press, seems to be that crime is the most important thing of what MHA does.

MHA has many roles. Dealing with crime is one of it. And dealing with that is not just the MHA's role. It is also the role of the public. Here, I am glad to say that 42% of the arrests of various types I mentioned were helped by the members of the public. I say again here that no country in the world has achieved this. When I mentioned this to police forces overseas, they said they wished they had the same situation. When I mentioned this to some people in some of our neighbouring countries, they said that they just encountered the opposite. When they see a crime, they would rather run away. So, our public is willing to confront a criminal, as can be seen in the case of the recent gun robber who went to an NTUC Fairprice outlet. At the carpark, a naval officer went around and assisted the security guard, who happened to be a retired police officer, in overcoming the suspect.

So let us not under-play the issue of crime-busting. In fact, clearance rate by the police has been maintained at a very high level. In other words, when a crime is committed, the police managed to clear many of these crimes.

Has there been a new philosophy where the police say, "Well, it is your problem, not ours, so please do not create the problem for yourself."? There is no new philosophy. I have always said here that dealing with crime is not just a police responsibility. Everyone has a responsibility to prevent the crime from happening. For example, we have read of stories, we have seen Crime Watch programmes. Why do people lose handphones in hawker centres? They have such great confidence in the safety of Singapore that when they go to the hawker centre, some of them will leave their handphones on the table to reserve the seats. Then, merrily, they trot along to the hawker stall to queue for the food. Can you imagine, if we were to ensure that such crimes do not happen and we need police presence, how many more police officers do we need? Should we be putting police officers as security guards and standing watch at hawker centres for such people? Surely not.

If a person has a home and he has valuables in his home, I would advise strongly that he installs an alarm system and turn it on at the right time when he leaves home. No point installing it and not turning it on. We have a spate of such incidents in the 1990s where some homeowners had their homes burgled when they did have an alarm system but they did not turn it on. So is it only a police problem that they did not turn on their alarm system? Surely not. It must be that of the homeowner. So, whatever it is, we are not advising them to walk into a robber. Nobody knows when a person is going to turn into a robber, unless they have the prescience to know that.

So let us not try to "blur" the situation. I did not say that crime is no longer a problem. I said low crime does not mean no crime and that the crime situation is under control. The targets that the police has set have been met. In many years, they have over-achieved. That is the situation.

On counter-terrorism, let me not under-state this. I think it bears repeating that counter-terrorism is the most important issue facing us today. If we have would-be terrorists slipping through our checkpoints, because, as some people prefer, to facilitate checks and make it easier for people to come through our Woodlands Checkpoint, like Mr Steve Chia has suggested, I think we will have a bomb or maybe guns in Singapore too. Do we want that? I think let us be more cautious about that, be stricter in our immigration and checkpoint measures, prevent such people from coming in or such guns from being smuggled in or, worse still, explosives from coming in, and we will be able to sleep better at night.

Mdm Ho Geok Choo: Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister of State with regard to the liquor licence whether there could be an imposition of a time limit for the sale of such liquors in the hawker centres or food centres. Also, with regard to the attire of the serving girls, they are normally mini-skirt attired, and I think that is part of the reason why it is also contributing to many of these foreigners coming to the hawker centre and actually spending their nights there and drinking into the wee hours of the morning.

Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, depending on the location of the outlets, eg, in HDB estates, the sale of liquor is prohibited beyond midnight or, in some cases, to 1.00 am. So there are limitations and conditions.

As to how the girls who are serving are dressed, it all depends on what your own sense of taste is because, if you are in those places where you are drinking beer, you are with people I think who can accept the dress. Of course, if the dress is indecent or obscene, then the police can take note of it. But if it is a short skirt or a bustline that may not be as high as some women would like it to be, it is subjective. I think those who want to go to frequent these places must know that this is the setting.

Mr Ong Kian Min (Tampines): Sir, I would like to ask about the security for our commercial buildings and shopping centres. I would like to ask whether the police advises or guides the management on the appropriate level and practice of security checks in and around the building. The reason I ask this is that a businessman friend of mine from Taiwan told me just earlier this week that when he visited one of our regional shopping malls - I think it is Kovan, but I will have to check with him - and took photographs of the shops inside the building, he was approached by a uniformed security guard and told to stop. He was even asked to go into the security office as the guards wanted to go through the pictures that he had taken on his digital camera. He also noticed that the dustbins within the shopping mall had all been removed. So I would like to ask whether this is the position recommended by the police or is it something the building management has taken upon itself and, secondly, whether the private security guards have the power or authority to stop innocent people from taking photographs in public.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, Mr Ong has raised a point which is valid. Indeed, building security is a responsibility of building owners. In fact, the tenants in these buildings can and should also play a role, because we cannot expect the police to be guarding that property. A building is a private property. It is owned by a commercial organisation for business purposes. Therefore, the security of that building must belong to that of the building owner and the management.

The police has indeed worked with the management of these buildings to tighten up security and help them with measures. In fact, we give advice. We go around Orchard Road and many other places in the key parts of Singapore where we have a lot of members of the public accessing them, to advise them on what sort of security measures that need to be taken on the outside as well as the inside of the building. The fact that a guard in a regional mall stopped that person from taking photographs shows that he is doing his job. He is doing his duty. If somebody is taking a picture of his building, surely he can ask, "What are you doing?" This is especially so when that person is inside the building,

then, all the more he has the right to see to say, "Let me see what you are taking." Maybe he is taking something else that should not be taken. I am glad that the guard is vigilant enough to stop that person.

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Sometimes, it is not just the guard who should stop that person. Even members of the public will call the Police hotline and say that they notice so and so, travelling in this car, taking pictures of this particular building and they give us the car number, and the Police will follow up too. We have taxi-drivers calling up the Police that they have ferried a passenger who asked them to get from a certain place to another and asked them to stop en route to the Embassy of a particular country or a particular key installation and took pictures. These are very useful tips from the public. We never know that such a tip can be very useful in preventing a terrorist incident.

Ms Eunice Elizabeth Olsen (Nominated Member): A point of clarification, Sir. I thank the Minister for taking my feedback seriously on this matter and I commend the Police Coast Guard for their efforts. Sir, I understand that there are transponders that are going to be installed on the boats so as to detect the location and that the Police Coast Guard does selective checks. But I feel that in this area, if we can do more, we should do more.

I would like to ask if the Minister can look into the implementation of thorough procedural checks at all marinas so that every vessel that comes into berth at the marina would be subjected to the security checks. This would not only serve to reinforce the Police Coast Guard's efforts but it would also make sure that nobody skips past us, so as to enhance our national security.

I would like to ask the Minister if these thorough checks are conducted, whether they fall on the responsibility of the ICA or the marina, and if they do fall on the responsibility of the marina, whether or not the ICA and the Police Coast Guard can work closely with the marina.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, indeed, the Home Team department works very closely with the marinas. In fact, we are doing a review of all these places where people can come in by boat, pleasure craft or whatever it is, into our shoreline. A marina is like a building. It is no different from, let us say, Tanglin Mall or Ngee Ann City, except that this particular building is near the sea where, instead of people coming by car, they come by boat. So the security of the marina is also the responsibility of the marina owners and the operators. What the ICA and the Police can do and will do is to give them advice on how to step up such security screening measures. That is what the Police will be working with the marinas on.

Mr Ahmad Khalis Bin Abdul Ghani (Hong Kah): Sir, I wish to seek clarifications on two points. Firstly, on the extent of the involvement of businesses during Exercise Northstar V, I reckon that their involvement was rather minimal because it was held on a very early Sunday morning. If this is so, I would like to ask the Minister what other efforts would be made to increase their involvement in future exercises.

The second clarification relates to serial house-breakers. I would like to ask the Minister what is his Ministry's definition of a serial house-breaker and how many of them actually commit repeat offences after serving sentence for a similar offence in the past.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, on the last part of his question about how many of the serial house-breakers went back to serial house-breaking, I do not have the data. On what constitutes a serial house-breaker, when a person has done more than one, two or three times - I do not know the precise number - if there is a string of such offences, we will classify him as a serial house-breaker.

On the involvement of businesses in dealing with security and counter-terrorism measures, yes, we do involve them. When it comes to exercises, of course, we also want to rope them in. But at that hour when we had Exercise Northstar V, not many shops would be open at 6.30 in the morning. But there would be those that opened at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock when the exercise was at its tail-end. They were already briefed prior to the incident and they knew what to do. Of course, we want to involve them more and particularly, when we are going to have exercises, maybe not at 6.30 in the morning, then we will need to get these businesses and their tenants more involved in the planning as well as in the preparation for these exercises.

The Chairman: Are there any more clarifications? If not, Ms Rajah, are you withdrawing your amendment?

Ms Indranee Rajah: Sir, I would like to thank the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs, the Senior Minister of State for Law and the Senior Parliamentary Secretary. I should also clarify to the Senior Minister of State for Law that it is normally the necklines that go up and down, and not the bustlines. With that, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

The Chairman: Thank you for that clarification.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn .

The sum of $1,988,936,750 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $427,021,700 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

The Chairman: Order. I propose to take the break now.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 2.45 pm.

Sitting accordingly suspended

at 2.22 pm until 2.45 pm.