Committee

Mr Speaker: Committee stage, what day?

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Now, Sir. Mr Speaker, I move,

That the Assembly do resolve itself into Committee to consider the clauses of the Bill recommitted.

The Minister for Education (Mr Chew Swee Kee): I second it.

Bill considered in Committee.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Clause 46 -

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Sir, I rise to move,

In page 18, lines 36 to 47, to leave out the whole of sub-clause (3) of clause 46.

Sir, this deletion will be re-introduced by incorporation in a later clause.

Question put, and agreed to.

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Sir, I move,

In page 19, line 1, to leave out the figure "(4)" and to insert the figure "(3)" in place thereof.

This is a consequential amendment.

Question, "That the figure '(4)' proposed to be left out, be left out," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the figure '(3)' proposed to be inserted, be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 48 -

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Mr Chairman, Sir, I indicated just now that we overlooked the point that the interpretation of the proviso might well be understood to mean that no one shall be entitled to more than 28 days' paid sick leave in each year. The intention of the Select Committee on the Labour Bill was that no one shall be entitled to less than 28 days. He shall be entitled to at least 28 days and to a further number of days according to any agreement he may have reached with his employer. 28 days should be the minimum.

I therefore move, Sir,

That on line 25, page 19, the word "more" be left out and the words "not less" be substituted.

The clause will then read:

"Provided that no workman shall be entitled to an aggregate of not less than twenty-eight days' paid sick leave in each year."

The Chairman: Would the Member for Tanjong Pagar like to consider that amendment further? I am a bit puzzled about it.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: It is a double negative, Sir. The only alternative would be a recast of the whole proviso and I would rather consult the legal draftsmen on this before we attempt to recast it. Substitution of words will not upset the whole proviso, but I should hate to have to recast the whole proviso unless I have an opportunity first to discuss the matter with the legal draftsmen.

The Chairman: Can I suggest that perhaps the word "no" should be left out and the word "a" substituted? Does that cover the hon. Member's point?

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Mr Chairman, Sir, it does not really, because there is this further difficulty. It may well mean that in any one year in any case a workman shall be entitled to at least 28 days' paid sick leave. There should be a further proviso. I think the intention that we all have is quite clear. The workman shall be entitled, if he is ill and if he gets a medical certificate for it, to a minimum of 28 days. The maximum may be whatever is agreed between him and his employer. If he is sick for 28 days, no trouble arises. If he is sick for 29 days, he will get at least 28 days, but he will get 29 days if his agreement with his employer says 30 days.

The Chief Minister (Mr D. S. Marshall) rose -

The Chairman: Yes, Mr Chief Minister?

The Chief Minister: Can I be of assistance, Sir? I do appreciate what I think the hon. Member seeks. It seems to me very simple. If there are contractual obligations outside the provisions of this Bill, he wishes to see that those contractual obligations should, in no way, be affected by the provisions of this Bill. I would suggest this:

Provided that no workman shall be entitled under the provisions of this section to an aggregate of more than 28 days' paid sick leave in each year,

so that if there is no contract entered into, then he is entitled to 28 days' paid sick leave even if he is sick, say, for six weeks, and the doctor orders six weeks. But if there is a contract between an employer and the union to give six weeks, then it is not affected by the provisions of this section. I do not know if that is what the hon. Member wishes.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: I am much obliged to the Chief Minister, Sir, but, with respect, that is exactly the kind of situation which the unions want to avoid. In that form, the employer will say that under the law the workman is entitled to 28 days, and any agreement made for more than 28 days, because of this clause of the law, will entitle the workman to only 28 days. A great deal of argument will start and a few more strikes may take place just over the wording of this clause on paid sick leave.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I have completely overlooked the fact that this motion was coming up and I had not realised that the Minister for Labour wanted to take the Committee stage today.

The Attorney-General (Mr C. H. Butterfield): Perhaps I can be of some assistance?

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Perhaps the Attorney-General might suggest a formula which will ensure that a workman shall be entitled to at least 28 days, but he can get as many days as he can get his employer to agree to.

Mr Butterfield: What I have in mind, Sir, to resolve this difficulty is a further proviso, something on these lines:

"And provided further that the provisions of this subsection shall be without prejudice to any agreement between a workman and his employer."

I do not know whether this would meet the point made by the Member for Tanjong Pagar.

The Minister for Communications and Works (Mr Francis Thomas): If I might comment on that suggestion, Mr Chairman, Sir, I think the agreement must be one which increases and not decreases the number of days. Otherwise, there might be a lockout to have the 28 days cut down, and that is not the intention. We have to add something further to the Attorney-General's suggestion to provide for this.

Mr Butterfield: I am much obliged to the Minister for Communications and Works. I think he is quite right. The difficulty, of course, is to produce what will be a suitable further proviso, which is to be incorporated in the law, without giving it a moment or two of consideration, and I should like time to formulate this. May I have that, Sir?

The Chairman: Yes, Mr Butterfield.

Mr Butterfield: The Member for Tanjong Pagar and I are not yet in entire agreement on the suggested proviso, Sir. I think we will have to take a few moments longer.

The Chairman: Will this meet the case? If it does not, then I propose that we suspend the sitting. This is what I suggest as an additional proviso:

"And provided further that the provisions of this section shall be without prejudice to any agreement between a workman and his employer which provides for more than 28 days' paid sick leave in each year."

Some hon. Members indicated dissent.

The Chairman: No? In that case, I will suspend the sitting for a quarter of an hour.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the Assembly.

Sitting suspended at 10.55 am.

Sitting resumed at 11.10 am.

Debate in Committee resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Clause 48 -

Mr Butterfield: Mr Chairman, Sir, with the assistance of each other - the Member for Tanjong Pagar and myself - we have been able to agree on an amendment to clause 48 on the point made by him, and I therefore have to move now, in respect of this clause,

Page 19, line 22, to insert after the word "leave" the words "not exceeding in the aggregate 28 days in each year".

And further, I move,

Page 19, lines 24 to 26, to leave out the proviso and to substitute or insert:

"Provided that the provisions of this subsection shall be without prejudice to any agreement made between a workman and his employer providing for a period of paid sick leave exceeding in the aggregate 28 days in each year."

Question, "That the words 'not exceeding in the aggregate 28 days in each year' proposed to be inserted, be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the proviso to sub-clause (1) of clause 48 of the Bill, proposed to be left out, be left out," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the words proposed to be inserted, be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 49 -

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Mr Chairman, Sir, clause 49, page 19, line 33, I move,

After the word "sections" to insert the figure "46" and a comma.

This amendment is necessary in order to reintroduce the subclause (3) to clause 46 which was deleted earlier.

Question, "That the figure '(46)' and a comma proposed to be inserted, be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Clause 49 again, Sir. I move,

Page 19, line 42, after the words "preceding the" to insert the word "holiday" and a comma.

The reason for this amendment, Sir, is to reintroduce subclause (3) of clause 46 that has been deleted earlier.

Question, "That the word 'holiday' and a comma proposed to be inserted, be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Mr Chairman, Sir, I move, "That the Bill, as amended on recommittal, be reported to the Assembly."

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill reported, with Amendments.

Third Reading

Mr Speaker: Third Reading, what day?

Mr Lim Yew Hock: Now, Sir. Mr Speaker, Sir, I move,

"That the Bill, as amended, be now read the Third time."

Mr Mak Pak Shee: I second it.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill, as amended, accordingly read the Third time.