Announcement by the Chairman

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

The Chairman: Before we resume I would like to clear a point under the Standing Orders which was raised yesterday by the Honourable Member for Tanjong Pagar and commented upon by myself.

The item under discussion was:

"Sub-head 1, new item - Permanent Secretary (Establishment), Grade C ($1,950)... $23,400.00"

under Head 8, Chief Secretary. The Honourable Member stated that the reason why he had not tabled any amendment to this item was because it would have required the Governor's consent, and it was doubtful if the Governor would allow Members of the Opposition to interfere with the terms and conditions of service of serving officers.

I commented that there was nothing to prevent an honourable Member from giving notice of a motion to reduce any item in any head of expenditure, that he might be faced with having to obtain the Governor's recommendation or consent, but that I did not think that he was entitled to assume that he would not get the recommendation or consent of the Governor.

I have had the opportunity to look into the matter a little more closely and I am satisfied that, in this particular case, it was incorrect to presuppose that it was in fact necessary that the Governor's recommendation or consent would have had to be signified. The relevant portion of paragraph (1) (b) of Standing Order 33 reads:

"Except with the recommendation or consent of the Governor signified thereto, the Assembly shall not proceed upon any bill or motion, which, in the opinion of the Speaker or the Attorney-General, would effect any alteration in the salary, allowances or conditions of service (including leave, passages and promotion) of any public officer...".

As I see it, the provision under the relevant item is for a new post of Permanent Secretary (Establishment) and no public officer has as yet been appointed to that post. In my view, therefore, no public officer is affected and consequently the Standing Order would not have applied. It follows that the Honourable Member in fact would not have required the Governor's consent had he given notice of an amendment to reduce the sum allotted to that particular item. I thought it was wise that I should correct that misunderstanding.

Resumption of debate on Question (9th January, 1957) proposed on Head 26 of the Schedule,

"That the sum of $10,000 for Head 26 stand part of the Schedule."

Schedule-

Head 26-

Question again proposed,

"That the sum of $10,000 for Head 26 stand part of the Schedule."

10.05 a.m.

Mr D. S. Marshall (Cairnhill): If it please you, Mr Chairman, Sir, in objecting to the grant of this sum to the Royal Singapore Flying Club, the learned Member for Tanjong Pagar gibed that we were training pilots for bombing the Suez Canal. Sir, much as we may loathe the colonial breed, it would be wrong and churlish not to recognise that it was these young men who not so long ago stood between humanity and Hitler; that it was they who changed the destiny of the learned Member for Tanjong Pagar from that of a nihongo functionary to that of a Kuo-yu patriot.

The Royal Singapore Flying Club, Sir, supplied 30 pilots in actual combat in Singapore during our war with Japan. I received this information last night from a man who was a member of that group and who himself is a domiciled Malayan born in Singapore. But I think one useful purpose has been served by this objection. The learned Member for Tanjong Pagar is right in complaining that the majority of the members of this club are Europeans. That is not the fault of the Europeans who see an opportunity for healthy and interesting activities and take advantage of it. It is the fault of our own youth and it is my hope that this debate will receive sufficient publicity in the Press in order that our youth should be aware of the opportunities which the club offers and that they will take advantage of them. I, for one, Sir, fully support this subsidy.

10.06 a.m.

Mr Lee Choon Eng (Queenstown): Mr Chairman, Sir, I fully endorse the comments made by the Member for Tanjong Pagar yesterday regarding this grant of $10,000 to the Royal Singapore Flying Club. I cannot understand how this grant has been recommended. Could it be that it has been recommended on the ground that the word "Royal" is there? "Royal", Sir, is a very big word!

Mr Lee Kuan Yew (Tanjong Pagar): Down with it!

Mr Lee Choon Eng: Down with the word "Royal"! I am told that only 30 per cent of the members learn to fly. And out of this 30 per cent, a number will gradually leave because they have failed, just as the Member for Cairnhill said that he tried to learn how to fly and he failed and now he is no more interested in flying. The other 70 per cent of the members do not learn how to fly because they are not interested in flying. What they are interested in is to get drinks in the early hours of the morning!

Hon. Members: No.

Mr Lee Choon Eng: Certainly they do. If some hon. Members say no, let me tell them, Sir, that I have been there on one or two occasions. I was introduced by members of that club -

Hon. Members: Shame!

Mr Lee Choon Eng: It is not a shame, it is an experience. If I had not been there, I would not have known that the club do supply drinks up to the early hours of the morning. Sir, I was asked by my friend who was a member that if I wanted to get drinks even in the early hours of the morning, or if I wanted to entertain my friends right up to the early hours of the morning, I should join the club. I was told that there is no other bar or club in Singapore that provided this amenity. The only alternative, if you want to get a drink in the early hours of the morning, is to join the club. So since 70 per cent of the members join this club for the purpose of drinking only, why not change the name of the club to the "Royal Singapore Drinking Club", as the Member for Tanjong Pagar put it.

Mr G. A. P. Sutherland (Nominated): You start one!

Mr Lee Choon Eng: There is no necessity for me to start another one because one already exists. So why should I start another one to compete with the Royal Singapore Drinking Club?

The Minister for Communications and Works said yesterday that we have the M.A.T.C. and the M.A.A.F. which provide flying facilities, and if anyone is interested in flying, he should join either one of these organisations rather than join this posh and very, very exclusive club. Many flying enthusiasts have refused to volunteer for service with these two organisations because they are subject to discipline. To join a Force, discipline is necessary, but to join the Singapore Flying Club it is considered that one must be a personage before one can join. That is the reason why many people have refused to volunteer for service.

The Minister said that the Club teaches people to fly. If he is thinking of merdeka, then by all means let us fly to merdeka rather than walk to merdeka! I oppose this grant of $10,000 to the Singapore Flying Club and I wonder whether it is in order for me, Sir, to move to delete this sum from the vote?

The Chairman: No notice has been given.

10.12 a.m.

Mr R. Jumabhoy (Telok Ayer): Mr Chairman, Sir, we do need local-born pilots and therefore training in flying is necessary, but the objection to this grant is, I think, because of the conduct of the members of this flying club, late drinking hours and so on.

Sir, a pilot is supposed to be a man of sober habits. That is true, Sir, because I have been flying very often and I have asked the pilots, who refuse to drink, especially on the day when they are on duty.

Sir, I have a suggestion to make which will, I think, meet the objections of the Member for Tanjong Pagar and the Member for Queenstown - that whilst approving this grant of $10,000, we make it a condition that this flying club should not be misused by those who are not interested in flying but in drinking. This is actually a condition to be made in their own interests. I think that is the only solution.

10.13 a.m.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew (Tanjong Pagar): Sir, the Minister for Communications and Works said yesterday, in all seriousness, that it was an intense desire on his part to see a large group of flyers which motivated his recommending this particular item. Sir, I have discussed this matter with the Malayan Airways Local Employees Union and they tell me that they saw the Minister in February last year. They are as concerned as he is over the need for pilots, and they then presented him with a memorandum which set out the figures of the pilots available - European and local - for flying civilian airplanes: they also put forward a scheme to the Minister suggesting how the present unfortunate state of affairs could be corrected. In this scheme they suggested:

"(1) To undertake the training scheme, the following training staff and equipment would be required:

(a) A professional flying instructor on full-time duty to train in the air and organise lectures on theory for commercial pilot licences, instrument rating syllabi.

(b) A professional engineering instructor on full-time duty to give basic aircraft engineering lessons and to organise training to both Singapore flying clubs and commercial operators' workshops.

(c) One twin-engined aircraft fully equipped with instruments, radio communication and navigational sets to enable twin-engined instrument rating to be given.

(d) Certain equipment for both pilot and engineer lectures most of which can be obtained or made in Malaya."

The Minister received this memorandum and he will remember that he had present a man called Mr Warcup who did not think very much of the scheme. The Member for Cairnhill claims that, this being a democratic country, everybody can join the Singapore Flying Club, notwithstanding its royal prefix. Let me remind him how much it costs to qualify, not including the entrance fees and subscription fees, the cost of keeping the social habits of the other members in the club. But assuming one abjures all these, how much would it cost to get an "A" Licence? Regulations lay down that there must be a minimum of 40 hours' flying experience before one can obtain an "A" Licence. The club's fees are $24 per flying hour. Assuming that one graduates in the minimum time (40 hours) and does not meet with a misfortune - as did the Member for Cairnhill who never graduated - it costs $960 per licence minimum, without paying subscription fees, entrance fee, without joining in all the drinking orgies. $10,000 on that scale would produce ten pilots a year. If this vote is passed and this Government is still in existence next year, we will want to know whether there will be ten new local pilots by next year - not white pilots - because it is local money that is paying for all this, although it is a nominated white Minister who is recommending it.

Sir, this is a small matter really- $10,000. After all, last month we agreed to give away $23 million. It seems to be straining at a gnat to argue about this $10,000. But it is a matter of principle that is at stake. [Laughter.] There being all kinds - it is not a laughing matter. It may be a laughing matter for those who do not have to stand before the people, contest elections and answer for what they have done.

The Minister for Communications and Works (Mr Francis Thomas): Terrible!

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Yes, it is. A terrible fate will befall him if he should appear before the people.

Mr Marshall: He will.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: And then we shall see what happens. For those who do, let me remind them that $125,000 to the Young Women's Christian Association, $10,000 to the Royal Singapore Flying Club - clubs frequented by magistrates who bring dubious women there in the early hours of the morning, whose pictures are subsequently produced in court as exhibits, will all not be forgotten. The Member for Cairnhill was then touring China, I believe. But these are facts. These are the habits of these people. $10,000 to aid and abet this nefarious conduct is a disgrace.

10.17 a.m.

Mr Francis Thomas: This has raised quite an undue amount of excitement in the Opposition, Mr Chairman. I had really prepared myself to be attacked on the grounds that the grant has been inadequate, and I was rather taken aback when I heard these allegations of subsidising drinking. I think I had better go quietly and seriously through a few of the facts and perhaps afterwards if there is time and the House will bear with me, I will deal with a few of the fantasies which are floating around in the rather ill-informed minds of the Opposition.

I think I had better start by pointing out that the $10,000 grant proposal is, of course, linked with another item which stands next to it in the paper before us, i.e., for the purchase of the flying club's properties, and these two items are linked together with the object of enabling the Club to pay off its debts and to equip itself with new aircraft.

In this connection, I might mention that we have been seeking from the Government of India under the Colombo Plan the provision of an H.T.2 trainer made by the Hindustan Aircraft Company and although I cannot say that we have got it yet, I am very hopeful that we shall get it; and it would be very odd indeed if the Government of India was more generous to our local flying club than is the Member for Tanjong Pagar, supported with enthusiasm by the Member for Queenstown.

Perhaps I had better deal with one point which was raised by the Member for Tanjong Pagar yesterday, and that is, the calculation of the grant to the Club. I have here the estimated budget for the Flying Club for 1957 on which this grant is finally based, after the Treasury had very rigorously and closely examined the finances of the Club, not only now but throughout the whole of its post-war history. Under "Direct maintenance costs - licensed engineer, labour force, Provident Fund, insurance, electricity and so on - $63,580: Radio maintenance - $4,800: Direct flying costs - $23,232", giving a grand total of $91,612 expenditure anticipated during 1957. Against that you have estimated income from private owners of $4,000 for hangar space: let to other requirements $5,000: profit on the club-house $5,000: paid trips in commercial flying $12,000: club flying at about 140 to 150 hours per month, estimated at $50,400. You will see. Sir, that that gives a total of $76,400 and an expected deficit of $15,212. The proposed grant will not, in fact, meet the estimated deficit, but we hope that with the provision of new and better aircraft the Club will be able to increase the number of people using its planes, using its capacity much more fully, and that in fact the income figures will be higher.

Since a great point has been made by Members of how one has heard of people drinking very late and not of oneself drinking very late, I think I might point out that $5,000 profit on the club-house amounts to about 6½ per cent of the gross income expected in 1957, and I should think this is probably one of the smallest club-house profits of any club in Singapore. The suggestion, Sir, that this is a drinking club and not a flying club is most rigorously refuted by the Club Secretary who is himself a local-born Eurasian and comes from a very fine old Singapore family as well. He says that 75 per cent of the members come to the club purely for flying.

Mr Lee Choon Eng: 30 per cent.

Mr Francis Thomas: And I regret that the hon. Member used his privileged position in this House to make absolutely slanderous allegations against people who are unable to answer for themselves here.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Have it out in a public forum.

Mr Francis Thomas: Sir, a public forum is an essential part of democracy and, of course, it must be open to abuse by those who wish to abuse it either through ill-will or through ignorance.

Now let us turn to another aspect - this was not mentioned yesterday - but if hon. Members will turn to their Estimates they will find on page 292 under the Head "Civil Aviation", Singapore Headquarters - Other Charges Annually Recurrent - sub-head 5, the figure of $2,500 in respect of renewal of instruments ratings and flying for radio and testing; and further under "Singapore Airport" at page 296, under O.C.A.R. again, the figure of $1,500 for "Aircraft Charter for Inspection of Runway and Approach Lighting", giving you a total of $4,000 allocated for chartering aircraft in order to calibrate radar and instruments and to make inspections of lighting and that kind of thing. When we get further equipment coming in shortly, there will be a need to fly over and around the beacon on St. John's Island and that kind of thing in order that they can be tested not merely by commercial aircraft flying on their correct routes, but on the possibility that somebody would fly off the correct routes, and to make sure that the coverage is overall.

This figure of $4,000 required for aircraft charter is based on the assumption that the Royal Singapore Flying Club will be available for chartering its planes at a cost of $50 to $60 an hour. If the Club is denied this grant and has to close down, as it would, then it will be necessary to charter planes from the commercial airlines. The cost would be between seven and ten times as great, depending on what type of plane you are able to get and the time at which you want it; and consequently, instead of a figure of $4,000, you will get a figure of between $30,000 and $40,000, at least $20,000 more on the public budget than is available and is charged on the budget by this grant. So that quite apart from the question whether the bar is a popular part of the Club, I hope that the charter services will be popular with this Assembly and will not force us to come back for an A.S.V. for another $25,000 or $30,000 in order to charter aircraft to maintain the safety of the airport. If hon. Members would scrutinise the Estimates with more care and ask useful questions, they would learn these things and would not have to be taught them when they misrepresented the facts to the public and show that they do not, in fact, know what is going on.

So much for the club's estimated budget and the fact that we are not meeting its deficit. Let me turn to the information we sought about flying clubs in other countries. There are subsidised flying club systems in a number of Asian countries - in Pakistan, Indonesia and India - and we have particularly attended to the very full details which we were given by courtesy of the Director-General of Civil Aviation in New Delhi. In India clubs are placed in four classes- I, II, III and IV. A Class I club is one which is expected to fly 3,500 hours in the course of a year; a Class II club 2,500 hours: a Class III club 1,500 hours, and a Class IV club 1,000 hours. A Class I club has a direct subsidy grant of 100,000 rupees; for a Class II club 75,000 rupees; a Class III club 60,000 rupees; a Class IV 40,000 rupees. In addition, Class I and II clubs get 40 rupees per instructional hour grant related directly to the actual instruction given; Class III and IV clubs get 50 rupees per instructional hour.

In addition, in India clubs get free hangars, one-third of their aeroplanes free, free landing, free V.H.F. radio equipment, both air and ground, and they also have generous free scholarship flying schemes. Sir, if we compare all that with what we are proposing for the Royal Singapore Flying Club, we will find that the estimate of $50,000 revenue from flying is based on the expectation of 140 to 150 flying hours per month, or somewhere over 1,500 to 1,900 flying hours per year, which puts them in the Class III category of the Indian scale. Therefore, if it were an Indian club it would be eligible for a grant of about $40,000 (converted from rupees) plus about $30 per instructional hour, and of course it would also get all the other free hangars and other facilities which I have just mentioned.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: They are teaching Indians how to fly.

Mr Francis Thomas: The hon. Member is obsessed with what he calls the white races. He is not prepared to accept anybody who has not got certain pigments in his skin, either as a fellow being or a friend. I will refer again to the Flying Club's racial construction at a later stage.

We have some very spirited remarks about the M.A.A.F. and the M.A.T.C. The M.A.A.F. is, of course, providing training for Service pilots and the hon. Member has, I think, supported it in the Estimates, and the Service pilots are of course those who, if they wished, would be able to drop bombs on people. The idea that the owner of a private pilot licence, who has been taught to fly in a Chipmunk in Paya Lebar is going to leap into his Chipmunk and fly off to drop bombs on Egypt is so fantastic that it does not deserve consideration.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: The Member for Cairnhill said one of them fought with Japan.

Mr Francis Thomas: They might fight in defence of this country and they would, like the pre-war pilots who included local men, as the Member for Cairnhill pointed out, be able to defend their own country. This is perhaps the objective which the hon. Member does not support.

The M.A.T.C. does not itself provide flying, but it does get from the Royal Singapore Flying Club facilities for what it calls "familiarisation flights" in order that the M.A.T.C. members may be able get off into the air and have an idea of what flying conditions are. This is one of the services which the Royal Singapore Flying Club provides for those uniformed and disciplined sections of the aviation world in Singapore. It also provides a free junior membership service for students from the M.A.T.C. The M.A.T.C. will, of course, be deprived of these services if the hon. Member succeeds in stopping this grant.

Let us now turn to the distressing complaints about the white man put forward by the Member for Tanjong Pagar. I myself am a white man and he is unable to forgive me for that unhappy element in my background in spite of the fact that I have spent more than half my life here, that I have been domiciled in this country and that I have a Malayan wife, and that I am heart and soul and for much longer than himself a worker on the political scene on behalf of the labour movement of this country. But leaving that aside, I may point out what I said yesterday and what he conveniently ignored, that the Royal Singapore Flying Club is progressively malayanising itself, and that of the student pilots under instruction - he did not listen to this yesterday and now laughs at it - more than 40 per cent are in fact now Asian. He also asserted, and it is quoted again in the newspapers - I think twice over in the English papers (this is the Singapore Standard, which is all I have with me here)- "so far not a single qualified pilot from Malaya has been offered a job in any of the airlines. This alone is sufficient to indicate the nature of the times." I am not sure whether the Straits Times did not publish this inaccuracy. In any case, the fact of the matter is that four of the Malayan Airways pilots were trained in the Royal Singapore Flying Club. The hon. Member will have an opportunity, I am sure, Mr Chairman, Sir, of rising to apologise for this wilful misrepresentation of the facts - I must not use the word "lie". I do not suppose that he would rise to apologise because it would be confessing that he had been wrong.

With regard to the membership of the Flying Club, I happen to have here the figures year by year, the names and details of those who were taking student pilot and other licences. As I look down the first page alone, I see Chinese, British, Australian, Chinese, Indian, Chinese, Indian, Canadian, British, Chinese, British, Filipino, American, Eurasian, British, Indian, Malay, Eurasian, Chinese, British, Chinese, British. Further on I find Arab and Ceylonese and others. This is the answer to the allegation that this is a white man's club seeking to drain the lifeblood of the people and spend money on drinking. It is a club in which there is a happy all-races membership happily working together as fellow club members. His attempt to make racial bars where they do not exist seems to be abominably mischievous in the circumstances of Singapore.

Since we are on this question of drink, I might mention once again this further point, that if you have a lot of people drinking in the club and if their profits are used for subsidising flying, it has pretty much the same effect as when we put a tax on drinks and cigarettes in order to increase the revenue of the colony. When people are drinking, they are actually assisting in the flying needs of the club, but the club is not necessarily disqualified for a grant.

The Member for Tanjong Pagar referred to the Malayan Airways Local Employees Union's memorandum about the training scheme. He did not quote the cost which would be incurred if you were going to employ full-time instructors in flying and engineering and a full-time aircraft and other costs. We did not go into that in great detail. We have looked at the scheme and it was obvious, however, that a grant of $10,000 would by no means be enough to pay for a full-time qualified instructor and to provide an aircraft to be available for training. We have, in fact, been working and are still working on schemes which, I hope, will in due course produce considerable expansion of training facilities. It may not be wise or necessary to set up a costly local organisation if we can get the training facilities we need in friendly neighbouring countries such as India.

Mr Chairman, I have taken rather longer over this than I would have wished, because I felt that it was a matter of some importance to deal with these ill-informed statements made by the hon. Members. Perhaps I can conclude by making the three points which I have already made. I will summarise them. First, the Flying Club does provide specific training facilities which have been used and which we hope will be used more extensively in the future, and that is a very valuable factor. Second, it also provides charter facilities which do bring genuine revenue into the Civil Aviation Department and do help to reduce the taxes quite significantly. Thirdly, it does provide a stimulus to air-mindedness which is of very great importance in this mid-20th century time when all technical training is of the greatest importance, and technical training depends partly on interest in technique. If I may, I will just read, Mr Chairman, from the opening paragraph of the New Delhi notes to which I referred just now:

"The flying club movement in India has been in existence for a very long time. In fact, the development of civil aviation in India has proceeded side by side with the growth of the flying clubs. The very first flying club in India dated back to 1928. More flying clubs have grown up since. The total number now active is twelve. They are centred in various big cities all over India. They provide flying facilities for students from various universities and also cater for the needs of the general public in respect of sports and hobby flying. They have all along helped to promote air-mindedness and have created, so to say, a pool of people interested in flying out of which have emerged young men who have selected flying for a profession. Being fully aware of this, the Government of India have accepted that the flying clubs must be given substantial financial aid. The operation of aircraft being a costly affair, the flying clubs are not on their own able to meet the expenditure involved in the running of the clubs."

That is the policy of our great neighbour and friend, India, and I must say that I think it is a very much more realistic and competent policy than the policies enunciated by the Members of the Opposition who have objected to this proposed grant.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $10,000 for Head 26 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 31-

The sum of $14,100 for Head 31 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 43-

Question proposed,

"That the sum of $53,600 for Head 43 stand part of the Schedule."

Mr Lee Choon Eng: On a point of clarification, Sir. I wonder whether the officer who has been seconded to this job on the Housing Authority will be paid. He is now being paid as Chairman of the Singapore Improvement Trust.

The Minister for Local Government, Lands and Housing (Inche Abdul Hamid Bin Haji Jumat): Mr Chairman, Sir, the officer in question will, on secondment, only draw one salary. He will not be drawing any salary at all as Chairman of the Singapore Improvement Trust.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $53,600 for Head 43 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 46-

The sum of $23,400 for Head 46 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 49-

The sum of $11,700 for Head 49 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 50-

The sum of $14,100 for Head 50 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 54-

The sum of $123,940 for Head 54 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

10.44 a.m.

Head 55-

Question proposed,

"That the sum of $56,700 for Head 55 stand part of the Schedule."

Mr Lee Choon Eng: Mr Chairman, Sir, what a shame that, apart from asking us to approve the grant of $10,000 to the Royal Singapore Flying Club, we are now asked to provide $56,700 for the purchase of a building for this club. A fierce attack has been launched against the grant of $10,000 to the Flying Club and if we approve this grant of $56,700 to purchase a building for the club, I am afraid in the future they will come back to us and ask if we can provide equipment for their bar. It is a real shame. The last paragraph of this item at page 5 reads:

"The Club was in receipt of a subsidy from Government from its inception in 1928 until the war. In 1938, the subsidy amounted to $30,000 per annum."

Sir, between 1928 and up to the period before the war, there were no elected Councillors or Assemblymen at all. This is now a different Government with elected Ministers, and I do not think we should follow the footsteps of the previous Legislative Council where most of the Members were nominated. Let us try to save money rather than throw away money. The last paragraph says that "in 1938, the subsidy amounted to $30,000 per annum." What I am afraid will happen, Sir, is that when next year's Budget comes up for consideration, we might be asked to provide another grant of $50,000 or $100,000 or even more. Then where will we end again, Sir?

Mr Marshall: Maybe you will not be here!

Mr Lee Choon Eng: I do not think this is right, Sir, because once you give a grant you will have to stick to it; and now we are asked to purchase a building for this club. There are more applications that will be coming in for the purchase of buildings or for assistance, and I do hope that the Chief Minister or his Government will look carefully into them, because I am fully aware that there is already an application asking for some grant and I would like to see how the Government treat that application.

The Chief Minister (Mr Lim Yew Hock):Mr Chairman, Sir, it would seem that the hon. Member has not learnt any lesson at all from the debate on the grant of $10,000 to the Royal Singapore Flying Club.

Mr Lee Choon Eng: I was never convinced.

10.46 a.m.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Sir, on the arguments advanced by the Minister for Communications and Works, we would at some future date be asked to support the principle that the Minister for Health's Singapore Gun Club should be granted a subsidy. And if this club gets into difficulties because the Minister's drinking companions have not been frequenting the bar, we would be asked to take over the building of the Singapore Gun Club, on the grounds that it trains marksmanship and we want more rifle shooters in this colony. Sir, we could argue on that basis ad infinitum. It is quite a different thing to come to this Assembly to cite India to prove that because the Indian Government has a flying club scheme, and since our Royal Singapore Flying Club is analogous to the Indian flying club movement, therefore we ought to support it.

Sir, I was talking to an expatriate yesterday and he told me that there was only one other place in the world, to his knowledge, where one could enjoy pleasure flying more cheaply, and that was Egypt. But when Colonel Nasser came in, he put a stop to it.

I am also told, Sir, that although the number of pupils seeking instruction is 40 per cent local people as against 60 per cent expatriates, the number of people who make use of flying facilities does not correspond to that ratio at all. The bulk of the expenditure is incurred in the maintenance of the aircraft, and that is a facility enjoyed almost altogether by the expatriates. Let us face facts. These expatriates are not Malayans, and never will be, although they often write in the newspapers, "We Malayans so and so...".

As to the actual sum involved- $56,700 - we would like to know what is the market value of these buildings, what was the cost originally, and how much has been allowed for depreciation.

10.48 a.m.

Mr Francis Thomas: Mr Chairman, Sir, it is now clear whom the hon. Member regards as a better model - Mr Nehru or Colonel Nasser. It is now clear that he regards Colonel Nasser as the finer person of the two. I must say that I personally prefer Pandit Nehru.

He asks a specific question which I think we ought to try to answer, and that is the valuation of the club. The buildings, I think, cannot be easily valued precisely because they were, in fact, built very largely by the labour of the club members themselves and with the loyal co-operation of the bar-boys who worked side by side with the members in carrying the bricks and spreading the concrete and that kind of thing. There is a spirit of comradeship in that club which is singularly lacking in the Member for Tanjong Pagar. But I am advised that the cost of the transfer from the Kallang club-house which they had to give up to the reconstructed club-house at Paya Lebar was in the nature of $72,000. That is the only figure I have got. It would probably vary considerably if we went into the detailed costing of it all, but that is a recognisable figure to take. The gross valuation for the club-house was $39,000 but a certain amount had to be deducted from that, and that is the cost of making certain repairs. The value of the hangar was $33,600. Again deductions were made for the cost of replacing one of the walls and various other minor improvements were effected if it were to become a government building. The figures are, I think, adequate for the Member's needs.

10.50 a.m.

Mr R. Jumabhoy: Mr Chairman, Sir, I think the Government side have an obsession that, with the help of the Nominated Members' votes and the ex-officios' votes, they will carry anything through. They will not admit any mistakes. This side of the House has already pointed out the defects of the Royal Singapore Flying Club-house, but the Minister for Communications and Works has neither assured us nor touched upon the subject of drinking at late hours at the club. I cannot understand the logic of just putting everything to the vote and carrying it through because they want it to be so.

Mr Francis Thomas: Mr Chairman, Sir, I should say that I have dealt repeatedly with the question of drinking at the clubhouse. I pointed out that the profits to be expected were $5,000 or 6½ per cent of the total estimated revenue for 1957. That was one mention which the hon. Member failed to notice. I referred to the drinking habits of the Member for Tanjong Pagar and the Member for Queenstown who made remarks about it. I indicated that if, in fact, some of the members did help to support the club by lifting their elbows, well that, of course, was common practice in almost every club in Singapore. It is, in fact, the practice of Singapore as a whole to derive revenue from taxes on liquors and cigarettes and similar consumption in order to pay for necessities. The fact that the club does what the Government does is not a very bad thing to do.

I think I might take this opportunity of saying this, Mr Chairman, Sir. We have, I think, very fully argued the reasons why this grant to purchase buildings is necessary. If the hon. Member is not convinced, then he will no doubt be fully convinced if we can stop the grant. He will no doubt fully support my application in due course for a very large A.S.V. to meet the cost of chartering aeroplanes and that alone might serve to convince him that he ought to support this purchase and this grant. I hope that if this House has again to consider possibly increased subsidies rather nearer to the Indian rates, Members will by that time study the facts more carefully and will be ready to give favourable consideration. This is the minimum subsidy which can possibly keep the club going as a useful part of the civil aviation structure in Singapore. It is possible that it may be too low and that we ought to have made it bigger. That will take, of course, experience to find out.

10.53 a.m.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Since the Minister is so anxious to give the impression that this club is intended for a serious purpose, we ought to acquaint ourselves with the facts. The memorandum that was presented to him in February last year pointed out the acute shortage of Malayan pilots. If we intend to run our internal airlines, we should have a big scheme, not this feeble idea of supporting a flying club meant primarily for recreational purposes.

Sir, the pilot position in civil airlines is as follows:

Malayan Airways - 39 expatriates; 12 Asians.

Federation Air Service - 3 expatriates; 1 Asian.

Sabba Airways Limited (Borneo) 5 expatriates; no Asian.

International operators are left out.

The total comes to: 47 expatriates and 13 Asians. There is no Asian who is flying an aircraft as a captain. No local aeroplane can fly over Malaya without a white man on board. Let us face facts. We are fighting colonialism and the white man stands for colonialism. So we fight him. When we settle that fight, we will settle other fights amongst ourselves. But first we settle who is to be master in this country. I make no apologies for being anti-colonialist. I do not quibble and say, "Oh, I am against the colonial system, but I am really a friend of the British and I love the British." I do not. I am against colonialism and as long as the British represent colonialism in this country, I fight them, unrelentingly, as they fight me.

It offends my sense of propriety to have every local aeroplane piloted by a European. I support the union when the union said, "If you are really serious about training pilots, then have a serious scheme." I have already pointed out to the Minister that $10,000 could, if used for no other purpose than just pay for the training of pilots, produce ten pilots a year with an "A" Licence. He said he had not costed the scheme which the union put forward to him, but it was something much more than $10,000. And so it would be. If we are serious about it and not just toying with the idea, let us set about it in a serious way. The union put forward these suggestions - I am reading from their memorandum:

"Providing for reasonable expansion of aviation and for the replacement of expatriates, there is a requirement of some 60 pilots for the next five years (60 fully qualified pilots) to fly commercial aeroplanes.

Making allowance for trainee wastage, it would be necessary to have an intake of 20 pilots each year to begin with, which could be decreased or increased in the light of experience."

We are now told that we are going to give $57,000 to take over some buildings. From the description of the way in which the buildings were put up, they must be very unsound, if bar-boys were used to carry bricks and stick them up with a bit of mortar! No wonder nobody is able to give a correct estimate of the value of these buildings! But we are asked to subscribe the sum of $56,700 for these buildings. We have not been told what they really are worth. The Minister says he does not know what they are worth. Obviously it does not matter. All he wants to do is to get the club out of a jam.

What are these buildings going to be used for? Are they really necessary? Is $56,700 worth the price we are paying for what we want to make use of these buildings for? We come back to this basic objection. We are not here to give financial support to European recreational activity in this country. We object to it even more when they try to camouflage it behind some beneficial results for the local population.

The Indian flying clubs, Sir, are teetotal. That perhaps is the reason why my friend the Member for Telok Ayer kept on insisting about drinking habits. They have a serious purpose. They may have grown out of the old colonial flying clubs they had in India when Europeans amused themselves by flying. But the Indian flying clubs are now engaged in the serious pursuit of trying to build up as large a field of men who can fly as possible. But the flying clubs are not the basis of India's Air Force, or India's growing force of flyers. They have properly organised training courses. And further - there is no need to laugh at this - even Ceylon has an Air Academy to train people how to fly, in a serious way, and not to throw away public funds on a European - whatever is the colour of the flying club secretary - flying club in which we are sinking $57,000 and to which we are giving a grant of $10,000 a year. The Singapore Flying Club might as well make up their minds now how to find their money next year, because if there is to be an election this coming August, whatever happens, whoever wins the election will not be in a position to vote another $10,000 next year.

10.58 a.m.

Mr Francis Thomas: I am afraid, Mr Chairman, Sir, we must pursue this subject more. A most helpful contribution from the Member for Tanjong Pagar was that we should give a further grant of $10,000 to the Flying Club so that they could take on ten Malayans, give them 40 hours' training each at a cost of $960 each and they would then be able to go ahead and produce ten more pilots among the wastage of people not getting through and who should get through somehow. Sir, I will give very serious consideration to that possibility and I do welcome the fact that he recognises that the Flying Club could perform a most valuable service if we cannot get the service performed elsewhere. I cannot go into the scheme since we are working on it at the moment because it involves other governments and it must be brought to a final form before I can make statements about it. There is, of course, always the possibility that it may not come to a successful final form, and in that case it is certainly very reassuring to know that we can count on the support of the People's Action Party for at least another $10,000 to pay specifically for ten pilots to be trained by the Flying Club, and I do welcome this generous gesture on his part which I think is the most fruitful contribution made to the debate so far.

He said that I did not give any figures of the cost of the buildings. I would remind him that I gave him the cost of the transfer - $72,000 - and the estimated valuation was $39,000.

He further complained that he did not know what use was going to be made of the buildings which are going to be used by the Royal Singapore Flying Club. In the event the Singapore Flying Club ceased to exist, the buildings would be taken over for government use. There are a number of uses to which they could be put in the Paya Lebar Airport for which space would be required ultimately and could be used right now. We have restricted building at the airport as far as we possibly could and there will probably be further buildings required. These buildings would fit in very well.

If any further Opposition Members are going to make speeches, I hope they will take into account the facts that have been stated and not get up and say we have not said what we have, in fact, said very clearly and in great detail.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $56,700 for Head 55 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

Head 56-

The sum of $123,361 for Head 56 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

11.02 a.m.

Head 57-

Question proposed,

"That the sum of $9,600 for Head 57 stand part of the Schedule."

Mr Lee Choon Eng: Mr Chairman, on a point of clarification. Is it not the Government's policy that all vehicles should be insured against all consequences? There is no indication here to say that this money will be recoverable from any insurance company. On the other hand, the Government insist that all vehicles of the public should be insured.

The Financial Secretary (Mr T. M. Hart): Sir, Government carries its own insurance.

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $9,600 for Head 57 ordered to stand part of the Schedule.

The Chairman: Turning to the motion, the Question is,

"That the sum of $540,291 for the Heads of Expenditure and for the services specified in the Schedule stand part of the motion."

Question put, and agreed to.

The sum of $540,291 for the Heads of Expenditure and for the services specified in the Schedule ordered to stand part of the motion.

Mr Hart: Sir, I move,

That the motion and Schedule be reported to the Assembly.

Question put, and agreed to.

Motion and Schedule reported, without Amendment.

Question,

"That this Assembly resolves that the sum of $540,291 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure and for the services specified in the Schedule contained in Sessional Paper No. Cmd. 2 of 1957,"

put, and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this Assembly resolves that the sum of $540,291 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure and for the services specified in the Schedule contained in Sessional Paper No. Cmd. 2 of 1957.