DECLINE IN EMPLOYMENT

Dr Thio Chan Bee asked the Minister for Labour what are the reasons for the decline in employment over the past four years.

Inche Ahmad Bin Ibrahim: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Tanglin is really begging the question. He takes for granted that the truth has been ascertained, that there has been a decline in employment over the past four years. This I would dispute. Perhaps the Member for Tanglin would state on what basis he arrived at his conclusion. Otherwise this question must be treated in the same manner as the familiar question: why did you beat your wife? Or even, did you beat your wife with a big stick or a small stick?

Dr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of explanation, since the Minister has asked for verification.

Sir, I wonder if the Minister has studied his own Labour Reports - the Annual Report of the Labour Department for 1960, page 4, where the following figures were given: Workmen in Employment - In September 1957 123,000 1958(8,000 less) 115,800 1959(9,000 less) 106,800 1960(1,000 less) 105,600

Inche Ahmad Bin Ibrahim: Mr Speaker, the Member for Tanglin says that the official labour statistics of total employment showed a decline, and he refers to this Report. If he does this, the answer could be as follows.

I rather expected the Member for Tanglin to say that. If this is the evidence on which he bases his conclusion, then it merely shows that one must be very careful in handling statistics. Variations in employment figures collected by the Labour Department are often due to the completeness which employers make in respect of returns. Sometimes the percentage of employers making the returns is higher than at other times. So variations in figures collected only indicate the thoroughness with which the returns have been collected. Also, there are differences in definitions. The Labour Department statistics gives figures of employment of workmen as defined in the Labour Code. Some time in the past, people such as trishaw riders and taxi-drivers had been included in the Labour statistics. Subsequently they were excluded; hence the decline in total employment figures resulted. This decline is, of course, quite illusory. Some Members may think it strange that the Minister for Labour should publicly disparage the statistics collected by his Ministry. I done as properly as it should be. This is because we inherited a defective system from the previous Government.

An hon. Member: Exchange it!

Inche Ahmad Bin Ibrahim: My colleague, the Finance Minister, who is a statistician by profession, has repeatedly asked my Ministry to improve its system of collection of Statistics. Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, there are many pressing and immediate matters which demand the attention of the staff of the Department and it will be some time before we can effect improvement.

Before I conclude, Mr Speaker, may I point out that if we were to use another set of data, we might come to the conclusion that there has been an increase in total employment. For instance, the Central Provident Fund provides figures of employment not only of labourers but all employees liable to contribution. Their figures show a steady increase. But here again I am not going to claim that they prove an increase in total employment. The increase in the total number of contributors may be due to improved coverage. Once again, I repeat, you have to be very careful in handling statistics.

Mr David Marshall: If it please you, Sir, I take it that the statistics the Minister gave to this House but a few moments ago are reliable - that there are 8,000 additional unemployed registered this year and that the total is 53,000. I would ask the Minister whether this figure is in fact, the highest for the last four years.

Inche Ahmad Bin Ibrahim: The answer is that it is the highest number of people registered for jobs.

Dr Sheng Nam Chin: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that the Minister has expressed utmost contempt for the statistics in the document published by his Ministry, would he not consider scrapping that Report?

Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Member ought not to misinterpret what has been said by the Minister. I think the Minister said he disparaged. He did not express contempt.

Dr Sheng Nam Chin: I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker, Sir. I do not want to debate with the Chair. But if you will just bear with me, Sir, from the way he expressed himself, it would appear that the statistics as provided by the Report were totally inaccurate, and in view of the inaccuracy,. would he not consider scrapping altogether the Report of the Labour Department henceforth so that the public and Members on this side of the House would not be further misled?

Mr Speaker: It is a different question.

Dr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of what the Minister has said, are we on this side of the House henceforth no longer to regard statistics published in official reports by the Department as reliable?

Mr Speaker: The Member for Nee Soon has suggested that it should be scrapped. I do not know whether the Minister would like to make a comment on that?

Inche Ahmad Bin Ibrahim: Mr Speaker, I think the statistics are reli able, as far as the data are available.