CONSCRIPTION

3.13 p.m.

Mr Kow Kee Seng (Paya Lebar): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I now move officially,

*That, in view of the seriousness of the situation which will affect the lives and properties of the people of Singapore following the pursuance of the present policy of military expansion and war by the Alliance Government, and the measures taken by the Central Government to coerce youths of Singapore to undergo military training, this Assembly calls on the Singapore Government to urge the Central Government to stop conscripting such youths for military service.

*The motion also stood in the name of Mr Chia Thye Poh.

This motion does not mean that our youths are afraid of death or are disloyal citizens. Mr Speaker, wars differ in nature. We have wars which are waged to protect peace and the interests of the people, and wars which are waged in the interests of the imperialists and colonialists. We have anti-colonialist wars and anti-imperialist wars to protect the people and their interests, and we have imperialist and colonialist wars to deprive the people of their rights and interests. So it is for us to decide what type of war this is, whether this is a war in the interest of the people of our own nation, or a war in the interest of the imperialists and colonialists. Once we know the nature of the war, then we shall be able to decide whether to encourage our people to fight or not to fight in the war.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as a result of their long experience in their struggle against the imperialists and colonialists, the people of our nation know what they should or should not do. Therefore, they are not so gullible as to be led into an unjust war. The Alliance and the P.A.P. Governments all along want the people to do what they dislike and what they should not do. Their refusal to do what the P.A.P. want them to do is termed as an act of disloyalty and anti-national. But is it for the ruling clique to say whether the people are disloyal and antinational? The ruling clique is selfish and reactionary. Anyone who dares to fight for the interest of the nation and against the reactionary ruling clique is described as disloyal and anti-national. Mr Speaker, Sir, what is very strange is that these so-called diloyal and anti-national elements are invariably anti-colonial fighters who receive great respect from the nation at large. The Alliance and the P.A.P. Governments hate them and resort to every means to suppress them. Why should this be so? This is because the anti-colonial fighters threaten the interest of the ruling clique and the British and American imperialists.

Mr Speaker, Sir, let me recount to you the history of our people in their struggle against imperialism and colonialism. In 1941 when the Japanese imperialists occupied our country, the British soldiers did not shoulder their responsibility in defending our country. They ran away on hearing the approach of the Japanese. As a result, our people were left entirely to sink or swim. They were massacred by the Japanese. The blood shed was enough to form a stream and the piled-up corpses could form a hill. This was the so-called protection and defence that the British were able to give us during that critical period. As a result, our people of various races had to come forward to defend their nation and their own lives and properties, and they waged the war against the Japanese imperialists and Fascists. With determination and support from many parts of the world, our people were able to defeat the Japanese. After all these difficult experiences, we realise that whatever hardship and suffering we are subjected to are the result of the suppression carried out by the British imperialists. Therefore, in the name of liberation and to break away from the British imperialists, the people were not afraid to go to gaol, to make sacrifices and carry on their relentless struggle against the British imperialists. In these circumstances, the British imperialists experienced certain pressure from the people. They knew that the struggle was going to be very difficult. So in order to prolong their interest and influence in our country, they made use of certain stooges. The policies of the Alliance were not framed to end the British colonial influence. On the contrary, they were framed with a view to consolidating the British and American imperialist influence. That is why the people are against them. We are against Malaysia because of this. We are against the suppression that is now being carried out against the people of North Borneo. Mr Speaker, Sir, this is a short history and it has been written in blood. It shows the loyalty that the people have to our nation.

Let me ask the people in the ruling clique where they were during the struggle against the Japanese imperialists, what they contributed and what they did to set an example to the people. Let me take the Prime Minister for example. In 1963, on 25th August ---

Mr Speaker: Order. We are on the motion now. I wish that the hon. Mem ber will not drag personalities into his motion.

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not making any personal attack. I am just going to tell you some facts about the contributions made by people in this respect. The Government has all along been condemning my Party as anti-national and disloyal, and I have to tell you some facts to refute this allegation.

Mr Speaker: Order. There is no objection to the Member attacking the P.A.P. as such, but what I am saying is that individual Members must not be dragged into the debate by name.

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): At the present juncture, what have the PAP. Ministers as Ministers done to deserve their places? I remember that at a certain rally the Prime Minister spoke about his difficult experience during the Japanese occupation when he almost had his head chopped off by the Japanese Fascists. He said that he escaped this fate because he was very fluent and very convincing in what he said. But unfortunately, thousands of people who were subjected to hardship during the Japanese occupation were not so fortunate with the gift of the gab like our Prime Minister; otherwise they would still be alive today, just like him, and there would be less widows and orphans. When the Japanese went, the British came in, as a result of which the peole launched into the anti-colonial struggle. What did our Ministers do during this period by way of contribution in this struggle? It was through the leadership of the Secretary-General of my Party and the other anti-colonial and anti-imperialist leaders that the Prime Minister had been able to get some support to be what he is now.

Mr Speaker: Order. I have been listening patiently to the Member. I have been giving him as much rope as I think he should have. But the motion before the House is not the P.A.P. The motion before the House relates itself to "the seriousness of the situation which will affect the lives and properties of the people of Singapore following the pursuance of the present policy. . . .". So will the Member confine himself to "the present policy"?

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): I thank you for your ruling, Mr Speaker. So through the struggle and the strength of the anti-colonial fighters, the P.A.P. came to power. They went into collusion with pro-colonial elements like the Tunku to work for the interest of the British colonialists and they formed Malaysia. They are the No. 1 collaborators of the British colonialists. What right have they to tell us who are and who are not loyal, Mr Speaker? The present tension that is generated in our nation is attributable to the formation of Malaysia by force. What was the idea behind Malaysia? After the Second World War, the anti-colonial and anti-imperialist movement has been gathering momentum in South-East Asia. The cry for liberation and self-determination is resounding throughout this region. The British colonialists knew this trend and in order to continue with and protect their rule in this region, they stated in the 1963 Constitution that Singapore would be given complete internal self-government; Sarawak and North Borneo would be given self-government; and Brunei would be given complete independence. But the British colonialists at that time knew that the progressive I Leftwing movement was very strong and influential and that power would come into the hands of this movement and those people who were against British colonialism. So the British colonialists had no alternative but to entrust power to their agents in order to prolong their interest and influence in this region. They found these agents in the Alliance and the P.A.P. That was how the idea of Malaysia came into being. The ants-progressive elements gathered together and Malaysia was formed. British interests and economic influence have not come to an end as a result of the form ation of Malaysia. On the contrary, they have been further protected. Malaysia was formed to isolate the progressive elements in Indonesia and the national movement in this region. This is precisely in the interest of the imperialists. Mr Speaker, Malaysia was formed against the wishes of the people. According to the Constitution, the people of Singapore cannot enjoy the same status as that of the Federation of Malaya. The people of Singapore do not enjoy the same political rights as those in the Federation. The people of Singapore have no equal representation in the Central Parliament. They do not enjoy freedom of publication, freedom of assembly and freedom of speech.

The Malaysia Constitution has failed to unite the people of various races. In fact, it has gone one step further. It has split them to strengthen the colonialist influence. The Chinese people have been regarded as a foreign reactionary force. What is Malaysia like as a nation? After its formation, the colonial influence still exists. The colonialists still continue to control the economy of our nation. Bri tish bases are still rampant throughout our nation. Rockets and army installations are very common in our country. Malaysia's foreign policy is pro-Western. It is a pro-war policy. Fundamentally, Malaysia is a neo-colonialist plan. That is why the people of the five territories are against it. Previous to the formation of Malaysia, the Secretary-General of my Party, Mr Lim Chin Siong, gave this sincere advice, that if Malaysia was imposed by force upon the people of the five territories, then the consequences would be very grave.

The Prime Minister (Mr Lee Kuan Yew) rose ---

Mr Speaker: On a point of order?

The Prime Minister: On a point of information.

Mr Kow Kee Seng resumed his seat.

The Prime Minister: (In Mandarin): Can the Member for Paya Lebar make it clear whether we have accepted the advice of his Secretary-General when he asked his Indonesian colleagues to give us trouble here?

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): Before the Prime Minister speaks, he should have my permission.

Mr Speaker: Let me clear this point so that we will not misunderstand one another in future. If the Member did not wish to give way to the Prime Minister, he should have remained on his feet and I would have asked the Prime Minister to resume his seat. As the Member had resumed his seat, I understood that to mean that he had given way to the Prime Minister. In future, if the Member does not wish to give way to the Prime Minister, all he has to do is to remain on his feet.

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): Concerning the query raised by the Prime Minister, I think I shall deal with it after my speech. [interruption.]

Mr Speaker, the advice has not been heeded by the Alliance and the P.A.P. That is why there is a war going on in North Borneo. There is also Indonesian confrontation. As a result of this advice not being heeded, things are happening that are against the interest of the people.

Mr Speaker, the war that is now going on in North Borneo is one in which the people want to get self-determination and liberation - a link of the entire national movements. The target of their struggle is the British colonialists. This war unites many people in their struggle and opposition against Malaysia. It is being waged to get rid of the colonialists from our country. This is a war for complete independence. But the British colonialists have taken suppressive action to curb the wishes of the people. Under these circumstances, the people of North Borneo have no alternative but to resort to arms in order to get rid of the British colonialists. Mr Speaker, in order to fight for their national independence and liberation, the people of North Borneo are now bravely engaged in an anti-British and anti-colonial struggle. Any party or organisation and even individuals who are anti-colonialists should support the people of North Borneo. The British colonialists and the ruling Party in Malaysia should be held responsible for the war that is going on in North Borneo today. The Alliance Government is now forcing the people of Singapore to undergo military training as a preparation before they go to fight in North Borneo. This is against the interest of the people as much as it is in the interest of the British colonialists. The present struggle against the British colonialists in North Borneo is a reasonable one. The British colonialists should be held responsible for the consequences. The fate of the people of Singapore and Malaya is similar to that of the people in North Borneo. They have suffered the same savage suppression. Since we have mutual aspirations and wishes, we should support one another to get rid of this suffering.

Mr Speaker, having experienced two World Wars, particularly the Japanese invasion of Malaya, the people in Singapore and Malaya are now longing to go back to the former peaceful days. But the British colonialists and the Alliance Government would not let the people live in peace. When the people in Singapore and Malaya are urging a peaceful solution of the war in Borneo, the British colonialists and the Alliance Government are forcing youths to undergo military training in order to prolong the war. We have no ill-feelings against the people in North Borneo. The British colonialists have carried out this war in North Borneo in order to suppress the people. They do not want to give them self-determination. Why should we, the young people here, be asked to fight for the British colonialists? Even if the struggle for self-determination in North Borneo could be suppressed, what good will it do to -

The Minister for Labour (Mr Jek Yeun Thong) rose -

Mr Speaker: If the Member will give way.

Mr Kow Kee Seng remained standing.

Mr Speaker: The Member does not give way.

Mr Kow Kee Seng: (In Mandarin): The only people who can benefit from this war are the British colonialists. Therefore, the people in our country have no obligation to fight against the people in North Borneo. This is especially so when the people in Singapore have not been enjoying the same privileges and rights as the people in the other territories. We are in the midst of hardship. We have been deprived of our rights. Moreover, we are being conscripted to fight our brothers. Since the people have no rights, what obligation have they to fight in a war? War will only bring destruction, misery and death to our people. It will destroy our peaceful lives. Husbands and wives, parents and children, brothers and sisters will be separated. There will be more orphans and widows. This is only for the purpose of serving the British and American imperialists. After the formation of Malaysia, many people have lost their jobs. Many factories and shops have closed down. Our trade has declined. Our port is under control. The barter trade has been suspended. Economic activities in Singapore are becoming more and more depressed. The income of the people has gone down. The burden of the people is becoming heavier day by day. At the same time, the Alliance Government and the P.A.P. Government are carrying out repressive measures. Many innocent youths have been sent to gaol and beaten up. They have restricted youths from entering the universities. They have declared a state of emergency, and have introduced reactionary measures and regulations. They have created racial disturbances. Lives and properties have been sacrificed. In short, they have brought misery to the people. This is the result of Malaysia. The war in North Borneo is also the outcome of Malaysia.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the facts are very clear. They have shown that we have no obligation to serve the foreign capitalists and the reactionary stooges. I urge the Alliance Government to value the lives and property of the people. They should defer to the views of the people and stop calling them up, especially the youths, to fight against the people in North Borneo. Our Party advocates peace and the protection of people's lives and property. The people in Singapore are peace-loving. They do not want war. They hate it and they do not want to wage it. If there is any war in our country, it can only benefit the colonialists, and the Government should be fully held responsible for it, because they have allowed the British to station armies here. They suppress democracy and they pursue the pro. Western war policy, particularly the policy of the United States which is anti-Communist and anti-China. New Zealand, Australia and the United States have joined the British in supporting Malaysia and they have promised to provide arms to Malaysia. However, their young people will not come here to fight the war, because in Britain itself the young people are against conscription. Moreover, the British do not have enough troops to cope with the situation in Malaysia. So we see the Alliance and the P.A.P. are trying to conscript the young people here into fighting for the British. The out-of-date armament left over h' the United States and the weapons left behind after the war in Korea are now being handed over to the Alliance Government. The Alliance Government is now trying to arm our people with these out-of-date weapons. Had Dulles known this, he would have laughed in his grave, because his plan of Asian people fighting against Asian people has now been realised. The U.S. Military Mission has come to Malaya to have talks with the Alliance Government. Tun Razak has also said that Malaysia is prepared to send aid to South Vietnam to help the Government there. All this proves that they are irresponsible. All this has been carried out to serve the interests of the foreign powers. That is why they want our people to fight the people in North Borneo. Therefore, in the interest of our people and the interest of the people in North Borneo, I earnestly urge Members of all Parties in this House to forget their party differences and protect the lives and properties of the people by bringing them back from the brink of war.

Question proposed.

3.50 p.m.

The Deputy Prime Minister (Dr Toh Chin Chye): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Paya Lebar wrote to me, as Leader of the House, asking that the Assembly be summoned under Emergency conditions in order to debate this motion. I replied to him that since his motion mentioned the policies of the Alliance Government and the administrative measures taken by the Central Government, it was right and proper that this motion should be debated in the Central Parliament in Kuala Lumpur. This suggestion, as I have seen, has not been taken up by the Barisan Sosialis. We have had two meetings of Parliament since he last wrote to me, and none of their representatives in the Dewan Ra'ayat has sought the opportunity to debate this motion of theirs in the Dewan Ra'ayat, as they ought to if they are nationalist leaders. They have, however, preferred to act as "big frog in a little well", and have asked this House to debate this motion which has been put up in the name of the Member for Paya Lebar.

There is only one consistency in the Barisan Sosialis despite changes in their leadership. Their Party is now without a Chairman; they talked of their Secretary-General, but no mention is made of the Party Chairman. The only consistency in the Barisan Sosialis is their support for Indonesia against Malaysia.

Two and a half years ago when in this House we debated the Referendum Bill, at that time, their Member for Thomson, Mr S. T. Bani, now Member for Crawford, significantly mentioned that Indonesia was the heart-land of Malaysia. At that time, among some sections of the public, little importance was attached to that statement. But it is now transparently clear in the light of recent developments why the Member for Crawford, Mr S. T. Bani, had insisted that Indonesia should be the heart-land of Malaysia. This underlies all the actions taken and statements made by the Barisan Sosialis - their statements opposing Malaysia and national service and their action in organising a demonstration at Hong Lim Park against national service. All this amounts to really a big sell-out by the Barisan Sosialis of the people of Singapore. What they are asking us is to substitute parliamentary democracy, which they are enjoying here today, for guided democracy; economic progress for economic stagnation and decline. They are asking the people to substitute, or to change over from eating rice to eating corn, and they are asking us to relinquish our independence so that we can come under Indonesian hegemony.

Let us review the stand which has been taken by the Barisan Sosialis since the first signs of disaffection broke out in this part of the world. They have openly declared their support for Azahari when the rebellion broke out in Brunei. In fact, it was pointed out in a White Paper released subsequently that there was a conspiracy in which the Barisan Sosialis agreed to provide assistance for Azahari's rebellion. When the Indonesians sent guerillas to infiltrate the borders of Sabah and Sarawak and even when long-houses were attacked, the Barisan Sosialis came out in support of what was called the "liberation army" of Sarawak. In fact, a number of Barisan Sosialis leaders, including the ex-Chairman and Secretary, went across to Kuching and other parts of Sarawak to incite disaffection and raise the standard of rebellion in Sarawak. But as we all know, these pseudo-revolutionaries were unceremoniously thrown out by the Sarawak Government.

Now, we see a sorry sight, when Indonesians are attacking the borders of Malaya itself, when Indonesians are exploding bombs in Singapore, when Indonesians are attacking our fishermen, robbing them and even kidnapping them, there has been no word of protest by the Barisan Sosialis against these acts of aggression. On the contrary, they have expressed sympathy for the Indonesian cause. They have not at any time spoken in favour of our own cause - the cause of our own people, but they wax eloquent against Malaysia and support for Indonesia.

In the space of three months, Mr Speaker, we have had landings at Pontian, Lahis and Muar. Altogether there must have been at least - a rough estimate from news that can be gathered from Press reports - about 300 odd or more Indonesian guerillas who have landed on Malayan shores. There have even been more attacks on Malaysian fishermen. What do the Barisan expect? Do they intend that we should keep our hands tied, that we do not defend ourselves, and that we apologise to the Indonesians for these acts of aggression? This is, in fact, what the Barisan Sosialis are doing. The Barisan Sosialis perhaps would do better to use this opportunity to unite and rally all the races in Malaysia and make this a first-class Opportunity for laying the founda tion for our Malaysian nation, rather than making Malaysia an issue to split the races. That, unfortunately, has been the consequence of Barisan's support for Indonesia.

There are two methods by which Indonesia hopes to crush Malaysia. The first method is to utilise military aggression. The second method is to use subversion - subversion in which race can be pitted against race - so that ultimately the Indonesians hope that Malaysia will fall, not because of external pressures, but from internal collapse. And the Barisan is doing nothing better than to assist the Indonesians in this subversion.

It is a sorry sight, Mr Speaker, to see in front of us Members of the Legislative Assembly who, at this moment, when they ought to show their patriotism, working on the side of the enemy. Rather than the Barisan Sosialis leaders should have wasted their energies misleading innocent school-boys and schoolgirls in an attempted demonstration against national service in September last month, and causing a number of these innocent school-boys and schoolgirls to land up ingloriously in court and in gaol, they should have devoted their energies to promulgating the cause of the Malaysian nation. But theirs has been a destructive policy.

Members of the House will have noticed that the Member for Choa Chu Kang is missing from this House today having paid the price for being indiscreet enough to be caught at the demonstration. But I gather that the Member for Paya Lebar and the Member for ---

The Prime Minister (Mr Lee Kuan Yew): And the Member for Jurong were watching.

Dr Toh Chin Chye: --- and the Member for Jurong were more cagey. They were hiding behind the skirts of school-girls and were discreet enough to remain in hiding until all the mass was cleared by the Police. If this is the capacity for leadership as shown by the present Barisan Sosialis leaders, then I say that if this country were to listen to them, they would be leading us into, not only just disglory, but to hell.

Mr Speaker, we are all aware that our own military setup is inadequate even for our own internal defence. And because of this, everybody knows - it is not a secret - that New Zealand troops were asked to assist Malaysian forces to wipe out paratroopers who were dropped at Labis on 2nd September, and more recently, Australian troops were involved in confronting the guerillas who landed in Muar at the end of last month. It is not desirable for us to depend all the time on foreign troops to assist us in our defence. For then, surely we will be laid with the charge that we are a neo-colonialist force. having to depend upon foreign troops for our own defence. We accept at this juncture while our own forces are inadequate that it is necessary that we should rely upon British troops and even Australian and New Zealand forces. However, it is important that we ourselves should build up our own military forces in order to protect our own independence. No independent country can survive the pressures which are exerted upon it in this world of international power politics, unless it is prepared to defend its freedom.

In Israel, young boys and girls of 18 and 19 years old are conscripted to serve for two years in the national service. On the one hand, they are taught to carry a rifle and, on the other hand, they carry the plough, and they are taught how to drive a tractor. This is possible because the Israelis are aware that the only way they can defend the integrity of their country is to demonstrate an expressive ability to fight and die for their country's independence. Even the neutralism of Switzerland must be defended by military means. Neutralism does not come by itself or is given on a platter to countries which just declare that they are neutral. In Switzerland, young men of 20 years old are called to serve in the militia, and they remain in the militia from the age of 20 years to 50 years during which they undergo periods of military training. They take back their arms with them to their homes and, at a moment's notice, the country can mobilize thousands of militia men. And this has made it possible for Switzerland not to maintain a standing army.

Malaysia is an independent country. Singapore is independent by virtue of our integration with Malaysia, and therefore it is necessary that we should be prepared to defend our independence. The alternative is to remain passive and subsequently fall and succumb to the pressures which will be exerted on us not only from Indonesia but from other parts. Let me just ask the Barisan Sosialis one simple question. Do they or do they not agree to foreign troops helping us to defend our independence? If they do not agree, will the Barisan Sosialis leaders act as a stop-gap?

Sir, national service is no shame. In fact, all newly emergent countries in the Afro-Asian world have made it a point to ensure their independence by indoctrinating the youths of their countries into the significance and nature of independence, partly by propaganda and partly through national service. Rather than agreeing with the Barisan Sosialis on their motion to urge the Central Government to stop conscripting such youths for military service, I must say it is a pity indeed that so far only 100 Singapore's young men have been called up for military training. Over 50,000 young men in Singapore have signed up for national service, and indeed it is regrettable that up to date, to our knowledge, only 100 have been called up. It is our hope that more people in Singapore will be given a chance of demonstrating their loyalty to this country and to show in no uncertain fashion their determination to defend our independence and all that we stand for.

Mr Speaker, I would like to move an amendment to the motion submitted by the Member for Paya Lebar:

After the word "following" in line 2, to leave out the rest of the motion, and insert the following words -

"Indonesia's policy of aggression and subversion, this House calls upon the Central Government to take all measures to secure the safety of the lives and property of our citizens, and for this purpose to give our youth proper military training to help defend the sovereignty of our nation.".

Amendment handed in.

Mr Speaker: The amendment is in order. The Clerk will now distribute to Members copies of the amendment proposed by the Deputy Prime Minister.

Copies of the amendment accordingly distributed to hon. Members.

Mr Speaker: The first Question is, "That the words proposed to be left out, be left out." The debate may include the words proposed to be left out and those proposed to be inserted.

Now, I draw the attention of the House to Standing Order 39. I do not want to read out the whole of that Standing Order. It is quite long. But for our present purposes the gist of it is this. The House may, if it so desires, debate at the same time the original motion as proposed by the mover of the motion, the words to be left out, and the words to be added as proposed by the Deputy Prime Minister. If the House feels that it is convenient to do this, then we may do so. But if the House feels that it wishes to debate the amendment first and then go hack to the original motion, the House may also do that. I am entirely in the hands of the House as to what it proposes to do. Perhaps it might be more convenient if the amendment and the original motion be debated together, and, at the proper time, I shall just put the questions simpliciter. Is that the general view of the House?

Hon. Members indicated assent.

Mr Speaker: The debate may then range over the amendment, the words to be left out, the words to be inserted, and the original motion. At the appropriate juncture I shall put the motion just simpliciter and ask Members to vote thereon.

4.18 p.m.

Mr Tan Cheng Tong (Jalan Kayu): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I oppose the amendment before us. This amendment motion is mainly to counter our motion, its effect would be to force all our people to be conscripted to fight for something which is against our interests. We have brought up our motion in the belief that conscription is against the interests of all the people of Singapore. To force our people to be soldiers and to force them to go to war would only destroy the family lives of our people. It would also separate families. It would cause the loss of many lives and property. More serious than this is the fact that Malaya has been brought into a war to promote the interests of the Anglo-American imperialists and colonialists. We have been involved in an aggressive war in the interests of the imperialists in SouthEast Asia. Through their so-called merger with Malaya the Lee Kuan Yew clique has handed over our political, citizenship, and financial rights to the Central Government in the name of Malaysia. All important decisions which affect the 1,700,000 people of Singapore - and to quote one example, conscription - are in the hands of the Alliance Government. Perhaps on this matter, Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew ---

Mr Speaker: Order. Mr Lee Kuan Yew happens to be the Prime Minister of Singapore. Will the Member refer to him by his designation and not by his name?

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Perhaps the Prime Minister, Mr Lee, who said that we are limited by law, perhaps the Lee Kuan Yew clique will say that ---

Mr Speaker: Order. If the Member wants to use the word `clique', I have no objection to his using "the Prime Minister's clique" but not "Mr Lee Kuan Yew's clique".

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): On this matter, the State Government has the obligation to accept our motion before the House, a motion that will urge the Central Government not to carry out this reactionary measure in forcing our youths to become soldiers.

Mr Speaker, Sir, why do I oppose the amendment before us? It is because this amendment is chiefly aimed at the following points. Firstly, the people have no obligation to protect the product of neo-colonialists, namely, Malaysia. Prime Minister Lee's clique cannot rebut this -

Mr Speaker: Order. Just the "Prime Minister" and not "Prime Minister Lee".

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps due to the difficulties in regard to terminology as between Chinese and English, in other words, because of the transposition of words in the course of the translation, the translation has appeared to be as you have heard. Malaysia has been brought about by the scheme of three parties, namely, the British, Malaya and Singapore. The "three big men" have had meetings at Cameron Highlands over venison, satay and golf, at the end of which they came to a decision. This scheme has been an open secret. Everybody knows that the Federation of Malaya is really serving the interests of the Anglo-American imperialists. Since that is so, what obligations do the people have that they should shed their blood and sacrifice themselves in order to safeguard British property in Malaysia?

Secondly, the purpose of military training is to send the conscripts to North Borneo to wage war. This fact cannot be covered by any smoke-screen. It is very clear. The war in North Borneo is the result of the British rulers' intention, through constitutional means, to suppress the desire of the North Borneo people to gain national independence and self-determination. The North Bornean people want to shed off foreign rule and domination. They want national independence. This request is right and proper. The desires and ambitions of North Borneo cannot be obstructed by any imperialist designs. The British colonialists, who are devils, are trying to show themselves as angels and to cause Asians to fight amongst themselves. What cause do we have to fight for the British imperialists and colonialists?

Thirdly, under the phoney merger, all rights and political interests have been sold out. The so-called autonomy in labour and autonomy in education which have been claimed by the Prime Minister's clique have been seen through. The recent legislation restricting students from entering the universities is a very good example. Their rights have been severed. Those who harm others will in the end harm themselves.

Fourthly, conscription is part of the designs of the Alliance to expand their war-like preparations. It is also part of the scheme of war of the imperialists. The establishment of Malaysia, in fact, meets the military aim of the Anglo-American imperialists to start a new war of aggression in South-East Asia. Thus from the day Malaysia was born, it was doomed. Its fate has been doomed since its birth, because it will have to shoulder the burden of armaments and war, and become cannon fodder for the foreign imperialists.

Fifthly, we oppose the conscription of our youths and their military training so to become cannon fodder to satisfy the imperialists' greedy desire. Such an aim is contrary to the Charter and the principles of the United Nations, and the principle of self-determination as declared by the conference of the nonaligned nations in Cairo. It is also contrary to the spirit of self-determination of the people in the colonies. The people's opposition to conscription to fight a war for the interests of foreigners, colonialists and imperialists is fully in keeping with the principles of newly independent Afro-Asian nations. The people want to get their right of self-determination from the British colonialists. We have now an obligation to help them to fight the people of North Borneo. If the P.A.P. want to act in the manner they have claimed, then they should support the declaration of the non-aligned nations. The Barisan Sosialis is a Party that has the interests and welfare of the people at heart. Since the P.A.P. clique have rebelled against the people, serious consequences and adverse conditions have been brought upon the people of Singapore. I will now repeat that facts have blatantly exposed the lies of the Prime Minister's clique. Their so-called prosperity, happiness, peace and all such slogans and beautiful phrases have come to nothing. They are like water bubbles. But facts are facts. The Prime Minister cannot deny them. It is clear for all to see that there has been a big increase in unemployment with serious losses to all concerned and an economic depression all round. The P.A.P. ruling clique have been suppressing the people, suppressing the news, facts and information concerning the true situation in order that the people may not know the facts. The traitorous clique of the Prime Minister have gone all out to arrest patriotic people. They control the Press, create public opinion and fabricate false news in order to blind the eyes of the people - [Interruption.]

Mr Speaker: Will the Member please continue with his speech?

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Up till now, the clique of the Prime Minister are just like drowning persons catching at straws to prolong their lives. Their true intentions have been exposed. All of a sudden, they imagine that confrontation has afforded them the last chance of survival. They shout that the people of Malaysia should be united in order to defend themselves against foreign aggression. They lie that the Barisan Sosialis is pro-Indonesia and is traitorous. They are just like gamblers who resort to cheating in order to win. But what they are holding on to is a straw that cannot save their lives.

Mr Speaker, the present situation is brought about entirely as a result of Malaysia. These people who are asking others to defend Malaysia should themselves take up arms - the son of the Minister for Finance is of age now - and they should ask their own sons to be conscripted. Also the sons of people in the traitorous clique of the Prime Minister who are staying in their ---

Mr Speaker: Order. Will the Member refrain from using the words "traitorous clique"?

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): These people who try to collaborate with imperialists and foreign colonialists should not ask the people to support and die for them. The Prime Minister's clique say that we are an anti-Malaysia group. But there are other Afro-Asian countries, for example China, which are also opposed to Malaysia. Then why do the clique not say that we are also pro-China as well as pro-Afro-Asian countries? Formerly, they said that we have been pro-China. Why do they now turn round and say that we have been pro-Indonesia ---

The Prime Minister: A question has been asked. May I say, "Because it is Indonesian troops that have landed in Malaya. It is the Indonesian terrorists who are in Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak. Not Chinese or African troops." That is why.

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, our Party is in the forefront of the struggle for the people. Our principles and our aims are fully in accord with the interests and welfare of the people. The only people who can control us are the general masses. If you want to ask us whom we are for, we can say that we are for the people. We are pro-the-people. The P.A.P. who want to shake their tails in front of the British colonialists try their best to shift their blame on to others and to cover up their anti-people nature. They try in every way to smear and slander all those who are patriotic and innocent. As representatives of the people who are suppressed, we have an obligation to speak for the people who desire peace. We insist on our correct stand. The Member for Choa Chu Kang has already shown a very brave and valiant example ---

The Prime Minister: On a point of order. Can an action which has resulted in a criminal prosecution with a term of imprisonment be properly called "heroic conduct" in this Assembly?

Mr Speaker: Mr Tan Cheng Tong.

The Prime Minister: No. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not putting a retort. I am really asking for a ruling on this because it seems to me that the Member for Jalan Kayu was referring to the heroic conduct of the Member for Choa Chu Kang who was arrested for breaking the law, tried in a court of law and convicted, and is now serving a sentence of six months.

Mr Speaker: I think it is a matter of opinion. The Member for Jalan Kayu is entitled to his opinion on that. Mr Tan Cheng Tong.

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Mr Nehru was also arrested and imprisoned. There are other national heroes and democratic people who have been arrested and imprisoned by their colonial masters.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in order not to allow the anti-national clique of the Prime Minister to escape our censure and not to allow them to blindfold us, I think I had better give a very clear example to show the truth. A woman cannot bear a child without having sexual relationship with a male. Malaysia is caused by the political sexual relationship between the P.A.P. and the Tengku's Alliance ---

Mr Speaker: Order. I must warn the Member not to use offensive language in this House. [Laughter]

An hon. Member: Dirty mind!

Mr Speaker: He can make his point. [Laughter] Will the Member for Jalan Kayu please refrain from laughing? I must ask him to use proper language in this House, otherwise I shall ask him to sit down. Mr Tan Cheng Tong.

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, these facts relating to nature are common knowledge which anyone can understand. So I need not talk further on this.

As a result of the political promiscuity between the parties concerned, Malaysia was born, full of syphilis and venereal disease -

Mr Speaker: Order. I must ask the Member to refrain from using those words. Will he continue with his speech?

Mr Tan Cheng Tong: (In Mandarin): Who can be blamed for this? We can only blame the P.A.P., the traitors. They have achieved this because of their own desires. Here I hope that the Backbenchers in the Government would respect the interests of the people and choose the road of peace. This is not a political dispute. This suggestion relates to an issue which has immediate concern for the interests of the people. I hope they will choose to get out of the clique of the P.A.P. and support the motion before the House.

4.47 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture (Mr Fong Sip Chee): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, we have earlier heard Members of the Opposition talking about and defining war. They say there are different types of war - anti-national war, anti-aggression war and liberation war. The Barisan Sosialis' understanding of the liberation war is this - that it is an act by which anti-national elements try to overthrow a constitutional government. The Barisan Sosialis want the people of this country to commit an anti-national act by rising up and destroying the nation. But they do not say so in many words. We have heard also that the Barisan Sosialis adopts the anti-Malaysian stand because we did not accept the advice given by their Secretary-General. The Barisan Sosialis is now left without a Chairman although it has its Secretary-General. I remember hearing that the Barisan Sosialis members are not interested in having a Chairman. That is why their Party is still without one. In fact, one of the members of the Barisan Sosialis has said that he is not interested whether his Party has a Chairman or not.

The Member for Paya Lebar has said just now that Lim Chin Siong, their Party Secretary, advised with sincerity that we should not take part in Malaysia. Because we refused to accept his advice, the Barisan Sosialis are now against us and against Malaysia. I think the members of the Barisan Sosialis can still remember that their Party Secretary also said, with the same degree of sincerity, to the British at a tea party, that they wanted to have a self-governing country instead of a completely independent country. They were prepared to hand over the right of self-determination to the British. They did not support the call for independence completely. This shows that they are not so anti-colonial as they claim to be.

Talking about their loyalty, the Member for Paya Lebar has said that the Government has described all those whom they dislike as anti-national and disloyal elements. Now, Mr Speaker, when the nation is faced with a crisis, it is for us to back it up. At this juncture the Barisan Sosialis should call upon the people to take part in national service to support and defend our country. But they have done otherwise. So they have disqualified themselves as representatives of the people. Furthermore, they have even tried to mislead some students and youths to take part in illegal processions and demonstrations in order to bring further disorder to our country. I remember in the past Mr Chor Kok Thong, a former member of the Barisan Central Committee, saying something about loyalty and democracy. On the eve of leaving Singapore for China, he said that he never showed any loyalty to Singapore and this nation. These are words that have come from a member of the Central Committee of the Barisan Sosialis. He said that he was never loyal to our country. These words are representative and characteristic of the leadership of the Barisan Sosialis.

Mr Speaker, what we are not clear about is whether they have been really logical. Our national integrity is never doubted among Afro-Asian countries. We have been recognised by many countries in Afro-Asia. But there are still some elements in Singapore, our own country, who still doubt our national integrity and sovereignty, when we already have it. Mr Speaker, this is something that is very puzzling to me. At a time when Indonesian troops are killing and slaughtering our people on the border of Borneo, and at a time when open aggression has been shown by Indonesian landings in Labis, Malacca and Pontian, the Barisan Sosialis have said nothing to condemn the Indonesians. On the contrary, they have turned round to say that we are forcing the people to fight against such aggression. We do not deny that in deal ing with these invaders, as the Deputy Prime Minister has said just now, we have to obtain help from New Zealand and Australia. But this help has been described as a threat to our nation, whereas Indonesia's open aggression is never considered as a threat to us by the Barisan Sosialis. It is very clear that there are Indonesian guerrillas on the border of Sabah and Sarawak trying to disrupt our national security and killing our people. But the Barisan Sosialis have said nothing against it. They say that the Indonesians are part of the Sahah and Sarawak people. This is their logic. It is not so strange as one may seem to think, because the hero in the Barisan Sosialis, Mr Lim Chin Siong, has already suggested a federation between Singapore and Indonesia. By this logic Indonesian guerrilla activities are described by them as acts of heroes fighting for self-determination and national liberation.

Mr Speaker, the Barisan Sosialis have not been successful in acting as the agent of their Indonesian master. That is why their master now has some doubts about them. Knowing this, the Barisan Sosialis are trying to get back the favour that their master used to give them in order to regain the position that they used to enjoy.

Mr Speaker, in various countries in the world, whether in Afro-Asia or Europe, national service has been considered as an honour to the citizens. The people feel proud to be able to take part in national service in defence of their own country. This is a great honour to loyal citizens. But to the Bansan Sosialis, to escape from national service is not shameful at all. Instead of encouraging our youths to take part in national service, they want them to boycott it. This is a very irresponsible act. The self-determination and sovereignty of a country should be safeguarded by us. We should not depend for too long a time on foreign aid to defend our own rights. National service is a step towards strengthening our military power to protect ourselves. But the Barisan Sosiahis do not like this. Instead, they suggest that we should open our doors wide and invite their Indonesian friends to come in with great honour. This is a very clear example of their anti-national sentiments.

Mr Speaker: Order. I think this is a convenient time to take the tea break. I suspend the sitting of the House and will resume the Chair at 5.30 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.59 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.30 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate resumed.

Mr Speaker: Mr Poh Ber Liak, in Mandarin.

Mr Poh Ber Liak (Tampines): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to air my views on certain points raised by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture. All they have said is mere nonsense.

We know that war will bring disaster to the people; war will cause loss of support to aged parents; war will cause disintegration among families. Therefore, we firmly oppose war and the military training measures which are pursued by the Government, because this will affect the normal livelihood of the people. The spread of war may also cause loss of lives among the people. Therefore, we must point out the fallacy uttered by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary, in saying that the State Assembly should not debate this question. Why should that be so, since the question involves the lives and property of the people? We are totally opposed to what they have propounded just now. The State Legislature has full rights and is a proper place to discuss the question which is posed before us. The Singapore Government should pay attention to this question which affects the lives and future of the people.

Regarding the war in North Borneo, the Deputy Prime Minister has accused the Barisan Sosialis by saying that we should not support the war waged by the people in North Borneo. We know that the war there was the outcome of the people's uprising there. Does the P.A.P. not realise that Party Rakyat has got the support of the people in Brunei and that this was initiated by the British colonialists? As representatives of the people, we have a duty and responsibility to offer them support on humanitarian grounds. But the Government has put forward all kinds of falsehoods, pretexts and excuses, and fabricated all sorts of rumours in order to suppress the democratic people ---

Mr Speaker: Order. I understand some earphones are not switched off. Will hon. Members please see that their earphones are switched off, because it does interrupt the proceedings and we do not want the proceedings interrupted, do we?

Mr Poh Ber Liak: (In Mandarin): The P.A.P. tactic has been to fabricate all sorts of rumours in order to confuse and mislead the people. Like the other reactionaries in Malaya, the P.A.P. are trying to mislead the people by saying that the democratic people here are pro-China and pro-Communist. But now they have changed their tune by saying that we are pro-Communist and accuse us of being pro-Indonesia. They say that we have connections with Indonesia. All these deceitful statements will be exposed to the people. All these falsehoods will not be of avail and they will have to fabricate other falsehoods. All these schemings are like those of a woman who wants to change her lipstick.

We know that the present dispute between Indonesia and Malaysia arose from the establishment of Malaysia. It also severed trade relations between the two countries. The economic situation in Singapore has deteriorated. All firms and factories are in a semi-paralysed state. Shops are faced with difficulties because of a trade slump. Many businessmen are earning less and less. All these difficulties are the outcome of the scheme pursued by the P.A.P. and the Alliance in setting up Malaysia. If the P.A.P. and the Alliance had not supported the British Government on the question of Malaysia, then there would not have been such a dispute between Malaysia and Indonesia and there would not have been this confrontation and slump in trade, so that businessmen, hawkers and people from all walks of life would have been able to live a happy life without Malaysia. All these difficulties were created by the P.A.P. and the Alliance.

We are opposed to the policy pursued by the Alliance Government in regard to Malaysia. Therefore, we staged our peaceful demonstration against conscription in protest against the war policy of the Alliance Government. We opposed the Alliance Government because they wanted to force our youths to go to the battlefield to become cannon fodder. There is nothing surprising in their attitude. It can only expose the P.A.P.'s inability to work for the interests of the people.

The Deputy Prime Minister has talked about so many difficulties they have to face. He says they should not depend on foreign aid and military assistance, and that we should build up our own defence. Now look at the example of Ceylon. Ceylon is a small country. Yet it does not depend on foreign troops to protect its independence.

Now that the Deputy Prime Minister is here, I would like to direct my criticism at him. "The military pact was created by the people" - if they have any self-respect, they should oppose the Alliance military pact with Britain, because this military pact would only lead them up a blind alley. It would lead to our people being forced to fight for foreign powers. It would only lead to foreign powers setting up numerous military bases on our soil. In the present circumstances, our troops are under the control of foreign officers. We firmly oppose all conscription being carried out in this neo-colonialist Malaysia. The present purpose of conscription is not to) serve the interests of the people but to serve the interests of foreign powers - neo-colonialists. Conscription means support for the foreign powers to suppress our own people.

I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether he really understands the situation in Switzerland. Has Switzerland allowed any foreign powers to set up military bases in her territory? If Malaya pursues a policy similar to that of Switzerland, of course, we will not oppose conscription, or the policy of non-alignment. How can we compare Malaysia to Switzerland, which is entirely different from Malaysia? The Deputy Prime Minister also talks of the help given by New Zealand, Australia and Britain. New Zealand and Australia have been trying to suppress the peoples of other countries; particularly Britain after governing Malaya for more than a century and suppressing the people here.

Mr Speaker, Sir, let me touch on the points made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture. He has talked about safeguarding our sovereignty and independence. How much does he know about sovereignty? If we have sovereignty, how can we allow foreign troops to be stationed on our soil? How could we allow foreign capitalists to exploit our people? How could we allow foreign personnel to control our administration? If we have sovereignty, why should we not be allowed to take part in the Afro-Asian non-aligned conference in Cairo?

He has also talked of the honour of serving in the army. Where is the glory of serving in the army which is meant to fight, to die, for foreign powers? I want to ask, "What soldiers will they become? Whom will the soldiers serve? And under whose control are these troops?" If the army were under the control of a fully independent nation, then it would, of course, be a glory to serve in it. However, in our present state of affairs, we are not independent, we are not masters of our own selves, and it is not a glory to serve in an army when it is under the control of foreign powers.

5.47 p.m.

Mr Ong Eng Guan (Hong Lim): Mr Speaker, Sir, nobody likes military training or military service because youths are compelled to interrupt their studies or their careers to spend sonic of the most precious periods of their lives in training how to shoot and kill. What a waste of human resources and national income even if what we are prepared for, will never be carried out! It has always therefore been a dream of philosophers from ancient days to find ways and means to abolish war forever. But the nations of the world have not been so successful in their efforts, and in spite of the existence of the League of Nations, and now the United Nations, there are still wars breaking out now and then in all parts of the world. So as long as the threat of war hangs over us, most countries, including neutral countries, have been forced to introduce compulsory military service. It is also for that reason that we find the Socialist Front and the S.U.P.P. supporting the call-up in the Malaysian Parliament. Mr Speaker, Sir, I therefore cannot agree with the motion of the Barisan

Sosialis in advocating a complete boycott of military service altogether. Moreover, the situation in the country has become critical. We are facing the threat of external aggression and internal disturbances. Indonesian troops have landed in Johore and near Malacca. Racial disturbances have exploded on two occasions in Singapore. I do believe that unless peace with Indonesia is restored in time, we cannot discount the possibility of Indonesian planes and guerillas making raids on Singapore Island itself. We cannot advocate, therefore, support of a boycott of military service in these circumstances.

Looking backwards to the 5-13 affair - in those days the fight against conscription was a correct move. In those days it was the British who wanted to conscript the youth of Singapore to fight fellow Malayans of a different philosophy in the jungles of Malaya. After ten years the situation has radically changed. South-East Asia will not be as peaceful as it once was.

The formation of Malaysia has set in motion a chain of events which even the founders of Malaysia had least expected. I believe some of the staunchest pro-Malaysian leaders are now having second thoughts and praying in their heart of hearts that Malaysia will disintegrate. They now realise their former mistakes. But the unfortunate thing is that history once made cannot be undone. We are now faced with the threat of external aggression. The internal situation also requires our utmost vigilance. The buildup of a local defence force to meet external pressures and maintain internal peace, law and order, is necessary.

Many will agree that in the last two civil disturbances the people of Singapore would have been better off seeing local troops being deployed rather than getting troops from other places who are not so familiar with local conditions. Military service is therefore inevitable. But I ask that Singapore youths, after training, should not be sent to other States, particularly to the Borneo territories. The primary role of Singapore youths after military training should be for local defence. After all, Singapore citizens are in an inferior status compared to that of other Malaysian citizens, and it is not fair to ask them to shoulder similar responsibilities as full-fledged first-class citizens when it is a question of citizenship obligations.

Although I support national service in principle, I would not wish to support the war-mongering moves of the P.A.P. Government which attempt to persuade the British Government to take the initiative of bombing Indonesia, thereby escalating the present conflict into a full-scale war. We should condemn not only Indonesian acts of aggression but, at the same time, we should expose any move to seek political capital and political salvation from an extension of the present skirmish. What consolation do we get if Singapore, Penang and Kuala Lumpur are reduced to ashes at the same time as all Indonesian cities are blotted out?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I see that a solution to the present dispute is not impossible. Let us take a determined stand and tell Indonesia that we will fight and that we cannot be cowed. But at the same time let us not fail to find ways and means of re-establishing peace in the region, on the basis of a fair and honourable settlement. Only then, Sir, can we earn the respect and support of the Afro-Asian nations and the world.

But, Mr Speaker, Sir, I cannot support the amendment of the Deputy Prime Minister. The P.A.P. leadership have now understood the real significance that power in most countries of the world, and more so in Asia, rests in the barrel of the gun. From North and South Korea, Communist and Kuomintang China, North and South Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, Pakistan and Indonesia - in the countries of Asia stretching from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean Sea, we see in the lost analysis that it is the control of the gun that really decides where power shall lie. Only in a few countries, like Japan, the Philippines, the Federation of Malaya, India and Ceylon, could the democratic vote effect at least in theory a change of government. But how far the governments and ruling groups in these countries would allow the ballot box to effect a genuine change of government is still left to be seen.

The P.A.P. leadership knew from its experience in the last Federal elections that it has no hope whatsoever of assuming political power in Malaysia. For the P.A.P. knew that not only must it be given a fair chance to compete in the democratic vote in Malaysia which it has denied to its opponents in Singapore, but that even if it can win in the democratic vote, which is not an easy matter, it is still the control of the gun that shall finally count. And, therefore, we find the P.A.P. complaining that Singapore youths are not given a fair chance to receive proper military training. The Deputy Prime Minister has said just now, with real understanding, and perhaps apprehension, that only one hundred of the 50,000 youths registered for national service have been called up to receive military training. For in the minds of the P.A.P., if the 50,000 youths of Singapore could receive, as the Deputy Prime Minister has described, "proper military training", we might find ourselves in a situation, in the event of the Federal-State relationship further deteriorating, a South Malayan army, predominantly Chinese in content, marching into battle against a North Malayan Army across the causeway, predominantly Malay in composition.

Sir, Singapore can only be a turtle in a tub. Singapore can never be a beachhead, a launching-pad to launch an offensive against the Federation. Yamashita has proved it. Singapore cannot be a Cuba, neither can it be a South Korea where the Causeway is our 38th Parallel. We have warned the P.A.P. of the consequences before entering Malaysia. Sir, the die is cast, it is too late to retrieve the position. The present conflict between the Singapore State Government and the Central Government should be resolved by further consultation. If there is ever the idea of a 50,000 secret army to be trained by the Central Government which will one day come to the rescue of the P.A.P. Government, I am afraid the idea will not help. Sir.

Dr Toh Chin Chye: He is a peace-maker!

Mr Ong Eng Guan: If I am asked, surely I am prepared to do it. The Federation leaders are more calculative and intelligent than the P.A.P. like to admit.

6.00 p.m.

Mr Ho See Beng (Bras Basah): Mr Speaker, Sir, the usual poor intellectual content of the Barisan has further deteriorated. This is proved today by the Member for Paya Lebar who has tabled the motion of anti-national service before this House. Even the Member for Hong Lim does not agree to the motion. At one time, he was shouting similar slogans like the Barisan. Today the people of Malaysia are interested in carrying on and fighting the invaders who are now fighting in our land. Yet the Barisan has come to this House to object to national service. This shows there is no intellectual content in the Party and the Party is gone.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the amendment proposed by the Deputy Prime Minister. I have heard the Member for Paya Lebar saying that the formation of Malaysia has brought misers and hardship to the people. If there is any truth in it, it is encouraged and abetted by the Barisan who have collaborated with Indonesia. That the Barisan Sosialis is infiltrated by Communists is an open secret and it is this element which has encouraged Indonesia to confront Malaysia. As early as 1962 the Barisan have openly professed their support of an uprising in Brunei led by Azahari who is now in exile in Indonesia. The Secretary-General of the Barisan Sosialis. Mr Lim Chin Siong, collaborated with him. The Barisan knew full well that they were not in a position to fight, to capture power by constitutional means, so they chose to capture power by violence. In this connection, the Barisan have spread falsehoods and told Indonesia that the people of Singapore are anti-Malaysia. They hope by this to receive aid from Indonesia in order to help them to capture power. Is that not the truth? However, man proposes, but God disposes. This plot between the Barisan and Indonesia was exposed, and it led to the arrest of Lim Chin Siong and company. Sir, following the arrest, the people came to realise that the Barisan are closely aligned with Indonesian Communists. That is why the people voted them out in the last election. It is common sense, Sir,If they are anti-Malaysia, they should not blame the people of Singapore for voting them out. According to their logic, if the people had been against us - the P.A.P. - they would have voted us out in the last general election. It is the verdict of the people, Sir,If the Opposition had any sense of shame, they should by now have realised and kept their mouths shut.

6.03 p.m.

Mr Lim Huan Boon: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, at present Malaysia is isolated in international circles. It has only the sympathy of Australia, Britain, New Zealand and Canada. It can only get support from such countries, but it cannot get the support of Afro-Asian countries and our neighbours, the Philip pines, Thailand and other neighbouring countries. The reason why Malaysia has not been able to get support from Afro-Asian countries is that Malaysia is controlled by the British in respect of matters concerning economy, military and politics. For instance, if there is any matter of importance in public affairs, the P.A.P. would not like to consult the Opposition or to solve the problems on the strength of the people. On the other hand, the Government resort to help from Ottawa, Washington and London. Mr Speaker, Sir, the P.A.P. Government is the same as the Central Government, because whenever there is any problem confronting it, it will go to London to seek a solution.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the P.A.P. and the Alliance Government have not taken the people's opinions and wishes serious ly. On the contrary, they regard them as enemies, and those who are friendly with Malaya and who are actually loyal have been termed by them as traitors. The British military is regarded by them as their intimate friends. Do the P.A.P. not know that the British military has been occupying colonies throughout the world and that the people of the Afro-Asian countries are against neocolonialism? The P.A.P. have been suppressing democracy, arresting people, disrupting the normal family life of the people, and causing distress and disaster. They regard the people as their enemies. On the one hand, they oppose the Barisan Sosialis' stand in calling off conscription and fighting for the interests of the foreign countries. On the other hand, they try to step up this action. We should pay heed to Afro-Asian opinion.

We have three ways to deal with the present situation. Firstly, to discard all foreign bases and control and to ask all foreign troops to withdraw from Malaysian countries. Secondly, to pursue a non-aligned policy. Thirdly, to give the people a greater degree of freedom and democracy. If the people cannot get this, then they have no obligation to fight for the present Government. If the P.A.P. and the Alliance Governments cannot put into effect these three suggestions, then all the consequences will be theirs to bear.

6.06 p.m.

The Minister for Labour (Mr Jek Yeun Thong): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, after hearing the Barisan Members just now, I feel very disappointed in them. I also feel sad for them. After one whole year's training in this Assembly, they are still the same as before, raising past issues, reciting cant phrases and mentioning anti-colonialism, neo-colonialism and the rest of it, similar to what they have been doing in the past four or five years. There has been no change in their tune. They are just like a charlatan selling medicine to the people on the road side. There has been no change and they are unable to bring out anything new to show. But times have changed. It is now a new era. The present Singapore is very much different from the Singa pore one year ago. Yet their talk, their attitude and tune have remained the same. This is because of their obstinacy and ignorance in not paying attention to the people's wishes. They have thus lost the support of the people.

Just now the Member for Paya Lebar has been boasting about the heroism of his former Secretary-General, attributing merit to him and lauding him for his achievements. We cannot say that any individual can be solely responsible for any contribution or achievement to society. But collectively we bring about better housing, better schools, better medical health and care and various projects and benefits to the people and improvement in society generally. But this so-called hero has he brought about any such things to the people? The most he has done has been to create such unrealistic people as the Members of the Barisan Sosialis who are ignorant of social changes. As a Minister, I am not unaware of any problem or hardship in Singapore. My being a Minister is not by appointment of the British colonialists. I have been elected by the people - [Interruption].

Mr Speaker: I wish Members would allow the Minister to continue his speech uninterrupted.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: (In Mandarin): As regards the motion put up by them, at first I thought they would withdraw it because there had been changes in the circumstances and it was time for them to withdraw it and yet they have not withdrawn it. I have given undue credence to their intelligence in taking cognisance of the situation. There is a Chinese classical saying to the effect that everybody has a duty in respect of the existence or death of a country especially facing foreign aggression. Every duty-conscious citizen will rise to the occasion to try to defend and safeguard his country. Now that we are faced with the crisis of Indonesian aggression and confrontation, many infiltrators and troops have landed on our soil and many traitors have been carrying out sabotage and destructive work in our country. The Indonesians have unreasonably car ried out economic confrontation against us, causing economic losses to us, in facing all these attacks and aggression by Indonesia, the Barisan Members have not only refrained from condemning the Indonesians hut have instead asked us not to conscript, not to raise an army to defend our country, and not to take any steps to safeguard our own safety and integrity. Now, this, according to me, is a traitorous act, abetting the enemies, and is downright high treason.

Although the Central Government may have some faults in certain mea sures, I do not think that the recent conscription order is not a correct policy. I think it is correct in this situation. Malaysia, since its independence, has never had the need to conscript until Indonesia started its confrontation and aggression. This also goes to prove that in the past Malaysia had been carrying out a peaceful policy. If the military brings about any inconvenience to our people, then I would say that it is because foreign aggressors have brought this upon us. Then we should first condemn the Indonesians for their unreasonable confrontation and aggression against us, causing great losses to our people. Now, this is the only right and correct step to take to safeguard the integrity of our country.

It is the bounden duty of every citizen to defend his country. It is so throughout the world. I cannot see any reason why we should condemn conscription at this hour. The Indonesian confrontation against Malaysia is not only news - a matter pertaining to this area - but it has also become headline news throughout the world. All democratic countries have condemned Indonesian aggression against us except the Soviet bloc. No other country except the Soviet bloc has said that Malaysia is wrong. Indonesia condemned Malaysia in the Security Council.

The next point is that the Barisan Sosialis has condemned the Malaysian Government for resorting to conscription in defence of the country. This proves that the Barisan Sosialis are following a treasonable line, aligning with the Indonesian aggressors.

In the debate in the Security Council recently, 11 countries voted in favour of the Norwegian draft resolution condemning Indonesian aggression against Malaysia. Out of the 11 countries, nine Afro-Asian countries supported it. Only Russia and Czechoslovakia opposed it. Russia had to cast a veto and this blocked the passage of the draft resolution.

Just now the Member for Bukit Merah has said that Malaysia has been isolated in the Afro-Asian world. But what is the truth? What is the truth in the Security Council? Who is isolated? It is not us. The facts are very clear. World opinion is on the side of Malaysia. If you think that is the U.S.A. opinion, then it is a kind of Communist stand to have such a view. Only Indonesia and the Soviet bloc think so. Only they condemn Malasia. Does it not clearly show who is the aggressor and who is being attacked? Who are traitors and who are not?

Just as the Member for Paya Lebar has said, there are many kinds of war - wars of aggression or wars in defence of the country and others. Ours is a war of defence to maintain the peace, security and sovereignty of our country. It is a just war. The war waged by Indonesia is an aggressive war, a neo-imperialist war which is condemned by all the people in the world. Whereas the Barisan say that Indonesia's action should be lauded. Now, this is a most shameless treasonable statement.

The Member for Paya Lebar has talked about the people of our country now and then. I would like to ask him about the so-called "our country". What does he mean? What does he refer to? When I asked him this question, he dared not answer. To what country does the term refer? Then he said it refers to Malaya. We have also heard about their songs, "We love Malaya". "Malaya is our homestead". Now, since Malaya is their homestead, why then should they oppose Singapore's entry into Malaysia last year?

Indonesians have landed at Pontian, Labis and Muar. All these are part of Malayan territory and also Malaysian territory - or the territory of "our country" as the Member for Paya Lebar has said. Now, since the territory of our country has been infringed upon, and the Barisan Sosialis is a patriotic political Party, why should it not voice protest against this unreasonable aggression? They say that the people have no obligation to defend Malaysia. But now it is Malayan territory; in other words a part of Malaysian territory that is being infringed upon. As patriotic elements, do they not have the obligation to defend this country?

I believe the Barisan Sosialis themselves are undecided on the question of conscription. If they should agree to this, then people might criticise them for changing steps, if they do not support it, then people might criticise them as being unpatriotic. Now, it has caused internal contradiction and conflict in their Party. For many days they have been talking across the table, pulling strings inside their own Party. It is entirely their internal Party affair. In addition to this, there are also two views existing in the Barisan Sosialis. There is the saying that if the nomenclature is not right, then the action is not proper. If the action is not proper, then the cause is not just. Because of this, they are inciting the people to support their action. They have organised an anti-conscription demonstration which has caused great disgust to the people. As a result of the two recent disturbances in Singapore, people have been longing to live in peace and security. They hated the demonstration sponsored by the Barisan Sosialis. The demonstration failed because the people did not co-operate. This is because the mood of the people has changed. For the sake of the security of the country, everyone longs to take up arms to defend the country against Indonesian aggression. But the people in the Barisan Sosialis, on the other hand, want to pour cold water on the heads of the people. Even the Member for Hong Lim can understand this situation. He dare not support the motion by the Barisan Sosialis. He also understands that times have changed and that there should be a new approach. But the Ban-san Sosialis cannot see that times have changed, and that there should be a new formula to deal with the new situation. Conscription to defend the country is a common system throughout the world. Even Switzerland, which is a nonaligned country pursuing a neutralist policy, has this system in practice. In fact, the conscription now in force in Malaysia has shown us that we are no longer in slavery. Why should we have conscription to defend our own country? It could be left to the masters to defend it. So it is just as what the Barisan Sosialis has said in the past -"This land is ours. Except for this land we have nowhere to go." If this land unfortunately is occupied by Indonesia, then our livelihood will be badly affected. That is the reason why we should protect and defend our country. The Barisan Sosialis argue that our condemnation of Indonesia is a lie. Do they mean that all the Indonesian infiltrators who landed in Labis and Muar were non-existent? We had an exhibition recently in Singapore. It was a very successful exhibition at which weapons like machine-guns supplied by the Indonesian Government were displayed. Do they mean that all these were faked?

The Member for Tampines touched on foreign bases. He said that these bases should be withdrawn. He said that if these bases had been withdrawn, then nothing would have happened. Let me ask him whether Ceylon, which has a powerful neighbour, is in danger of being invaded. The answer is no. If Indonesia can assure us that it will not invade us; if the whole world can assure us of our safety and security, we, of course, will request the withdrawal of foreign bases. But the question is whether we can get such an assurance from Indonesia, or from the United Nations, to protect our security and safety. If not, then how are we going to protect and safeguard our country? Of course, we will then have to arm ourselves and build up our forces. When we ask foreign countries to help us, to defend us, they turn round to say that it is not proper to do so. Do they mean that they want our country to be handed over to another power before they are contented? The Barisan speakers and their propaganda have been of no avail. They are going into a blind alley from which position they cannot save them selves. Their action is an anachronism. I hope they will mend their ways.

6.33 p.m.

Mr Ong Lian Teng (Bukit Panjang): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Minister for Labour has said that the Barisan are using hackneyed phrases, and that we are repeating what we have said in the past. That is right, because there has been no change in the situation. Our former colonial masters are today still controlling the fate of Singapore and Malaya. Singapore and Malaya are still under the control of colonialism. If there is no change in the situation, then of course we will not change our attitude and words. I admit that the P.A.P. have changed. They are very fond of changing themselves and their position. They could pose as anti-colonialists, and later on they could also become a pro-colonialist Party. They could co-operate with our Secretary-General and they could also sell him out. They could also become a woman to please the Tunku. They can also become a screw-driver to loosen screws or to tune up the machinery of the Alliance.

Mr Speaker: Order. The earphones are not right. They do not seem to have been switched off. Will Members responsible for their earphones, please check? Mr Ong Lian Teng.

Mr Ong Lian Teng: (In Mandarin): Furthermore, I believe that the Minister for Labour is also a versatile person judging from his speech. He has referred to the discussions held in the United Nations on Indonesian aggression against Malaysia, and has tried to show that Malaysia has the support of world opinion. If he wants to give a full analysis, he should also mention the facts of February 1963. He should also mention the non-aligned nations' Conference in Cairo. It is only fair for him to mention these two events.

The P.A.P. are also fickle in this way. They have all Sorts of propaganda tactics. Previously they said that the Barisan was pro-China. Later they changed their tune and said that we were pro-Communist. Now they say we are pro-Indonesia. This is a classic ex ample of their incapability.

The Minister for Labour has also touched on a Chinese saying that when a nation is faced with danger, everybody has a duty to defend it. However, he has forgotten that there is also a Chinese saying that good iron will not become nails, and good people will not become soldiers.

The Members sitting opposite have also said that we should bring up this issue in the Central Parliament. What do they imply by saying this? Firstly, I think they want to pass the buck to the Central Parliament in order to shirk their responsibility. Secondly, their in tention is that maybe the people in Singapore have no rights and that everything has to be decided by the Central Parliament.

Now, let me rebut some of the points raised by the Member for Stamford. He said that the border of Sabah has been invaded by Indonesian troops. However, does he know that the Chief Minister of Sabah, Dato Stephens, said that about 2,000 youths had escaped into the jungle? The Member for Stamford should approach the Chief Minister of Sabah to find out the real situation.

Mr Speaker: Order. The earphones are still not switched off. I wish Members will pay attention to their earphones and have them switched off, so that the debate will not be interrupted. Mr Ong Lian Teng.

Mr Ong Lian Teng: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, the P.A.P. claim to represent the interests of the people, but the real fact is that they only represent their own interests. Everybody knows that it is no good to serve in the army. Why should the P.A.P. ask the people to serve in the army? They say that it is to defend our country. But my colleagues have said that our country is not fully independent. If we do not have full independence, obviously our youths will be under the control of British officers after they have completed their training, and they will not be under the control of the people.

Conscription does not mean looking after the interest of the country. If we want our youths to undergo military training for the purpose of going to war, this will run counter to their aspirations and wishes. We must pursue a policy of peace. If we want peace, we must find ways and means to resolve the dispute between Indonesia and Malaysia. If our youths are conscripted, what will be the consequences? We can imagine them. There will be disintegration of families. There will be separation of husbands and wives. What good will it be to send our youths to fight on the battlefields of North Borneo? For whom? Even if we gain victory, what will we benefit? Nothing. Soldiers are needed to safeguard a nation. Let me mention this. Tun Razak has recently said that whenever possible Malaysia will send some of its troops to help the South Vietnam regime. It is very clear what the purpose is of our youths serving in the army. The first Infantry Regiment of Singapore was sent to Sabah. 96 youths from Singapore were sent to Port Dickson for military training. All these people have been sent outside Singapore. We have to understand the situation, otherwise we ill just be like blind men.

The Tunku said on the 14th of August that the United States would send a mission to Malaysia to find out our military needs. He said that he hoped the United States would give us the same amount of aid that it was giving India to fight against the Chinese. What will be the result of this aid? The United States are also aiding Indonesia because they are training Indonesian officers. How can anyone explain this paradox? If there is a war in these countries, nobody will gain anything by it. Only the Americans will derive any benefit from it. All these factors should be studied by us.

The Minister for Labour has touched on the demonstration that took place on the 12th of September. If he is accusing us of repeating ourselves, then we can say the same of him because speeches have been put over the radio to the effect that it was the Barisan Sosialis who wanted to create trouble and disturbances in Singapore. But has he considered who were responsible for the disturbances before the Barisan demontration? We wanted to discuss this matter in the Assembly, but the P.A.P. did not have the guts to do so.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: On a point of order.

Mr Speaker: Will the Member resume his seat?

Mr Ong Lian Teng resumed his seat.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Speaker, I understand that you have already ruled that their motion on the communal disturbances in Singapore is sub judice. Therefore, it is not to be debate I in this House. But the hon. Member said just no that we dare not debate this motion in the House because we were afraid that we would be exposed. I do not think this is a fact.

Mr Speaker: If the Member for Bukit Panjang is referring to those disturbances, then he is out of order, because that matter is now sub judice.

Mr Ong Lian Teng: (In Mandarin): I am just recalling the events that took place before the 12th of September. There was still a curfew on the night of the 12th of September. The P.A P. Government made use of military troops and policemen to arrest some 30 persons. These persons were not responsible for the racial disturbances. Why was this action taken before the curfew was lifted? Even before the 11th of September, the Government took similar action on four occasions. They arrested certain people and locked them up in gaol without trial. Why cannot the people express their views on such matters? If the Government can arrest people without trial, then the people are entitled to express their views either for or against this action. The demonstration on the 12th of September was one of the means by which the people tried to express their views. That is the first point.

The Minister for Law (Mr E. W. Barker): On a point of order.

Mr Ong Lian Teng resumed his seat.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think the hon. Member is being relevant. I wonder what all this has to do with the motion before the House?

Mr Speaker: I wish the Member would get on with the motion. He can make his points as he goes along, but he should not dwell on them too much and so get out of line with the motion.

Mr Ong Lian Teng: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I have brought up these matters because the Minister for Labour has spoken on the demonstration held on the 12th of September. I have to bring them up by way of reply.

Mr Speaker, the Minister for Labour has also touched on one other point, namely, that Ceylon is not experiencing any foreign pressure. Of course, we know that there are no foreign troops in Ceylon. That is why there is no external pressure. We can also say that Cuba is experiencing pressure from foreign sources because at one time foreign troops were stationed there.

Mr Speaker. Members on the Government side have also said that the Barisan Sosialis have refrained from condemning Indonesia. The question of condemnation of Indonesia has been brought up in the international field, that is, in the United Nations. We can challenge them now by saying that if they can cause foreign troops to withdraw from our country, then the democratic rights of our people will be respected. Give them the freedom which they deserve. As my colleague has said, if the people have no democratic rights, then their hands are tied and they have no obligation to serve in the army. But if the Government is prepared to release all political detainees, including those arrested during the colonial regime, we will then change our attitude. We will then be prepared to serve in the army. We are prepared to serve in the army provided the Government is prepared to do what I have already stated.

6.53 p.m.

Mr Bernard Rodrigues (Telok Blangah): Mr Speaker. Sir, conscription was brought about because of Indonesian aggression. It was all because of the failure of the confrontation policy. I think the question today is, who brought about confrontation? It was the seven blokes there that brought about confrontation today.

Mr Speaker: Order. I did not hear. The seven - what did the Member say?

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: The seven Barisan Members. Malaysia was brought about by the consent of the people of Malaysia. Yet they have got the cheek to come here today and say that they are afraid of the masses, whereas in reality they are working against the wishes of the masses. These are the hypocrites who, on the one hand, shed crocodile ---

Mr Speaker: Order. Is the Member referring to the seven Members sitting in this House'?

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: I mean these are the Barisan Members ---

Mr Speaker: Order. I ask, is the Member referring to the seven Members in this House opposite him?

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: It is not only the Barisan Members in this House but the Barisan members as a whole.

Mr Speaker: Outside this House?

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: Outside and inside, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Then the Member must withdraw that expression.

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: The Barisan Members ---

Mr Speaker: Will the Member please withdraw that expression?

Mr Bernard Rodrigues: Yes. The Barisan Members, on the one hand, shed croco dile tears because of conscription and, on the other hand, support confrontation and Indonesian aggression. Malaysia is at war today, not cold war, but physical war. The Indonesians have sent troops here to kill our innocent ones. Our brothers and sisters have lost their lives. But what do the Barisan Sosialis do today'? Instead of condemning Indonesia, they have come here instead to ask us to stop conscription in the hope that the Barisan Communist bosses from Indonesia will take over Malaysia and that their leaders could go on holiday overseas and enjoy their leave with their different wives. Whereas the ordinary people in the street have to eat rats for breakfast, rats for lunch, rats for dinner; and even rat soup in the case of the sick. Why do the Barisan anti-nationals for once not denounce confrontation and, condemn Indonesian aggression? The giant National Trades Union Congress has said that the workers are prepared to fight for Malaysia so that their children and their children's children will be guaranteed three square meals a day instead of being forced to eat rats.

Mr Speaker, Sir, if I had my way today, the people concerned would not be allowed to enjoy the privileges of this country. Instead they would be made to experience eating rats by banishing them to the country from where they get their instructions.

Mr Speaker. Sir, when I was elected to this Assembly I thought we had 13 Opposition Members, hut now it seems the number has been reduced. I sincerely hope that the day will not come when we have to face no opposition at all.

7.00 p.m.

Mr Koo Young (Thomson): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, we call upon the State Government to urge the Central Government to stop forcing our youths to serve in the Army for good reasons. The Members opposite talk about invasion, aggression and patriotism. They try to show that they are very patriotic, and very loyal, more patriotic and more loyal than those who do not agree with their views. They describe those who disagree with them as disloyal and unpatriotic. They even go to the extent of saying that we are for aggression. Before one can come to the-conclusion that the other is patriotic or not, one has to go into the actual facts.

We say that Malaysia is the brainchild of neo-colonialism. The P.A.P. want our people to be loyal to the British colonial masters. Their patriotism is not based on the interests of the people but on those of their colonial masters. There are different forms of patriotism. Japan and Hitler of Germany had their own ideas about patriotism. Their patriotism was one of aggression. That is one form of patriotism. The colonial masters want to continue their rule over foreign lands and they also require some form of loyalty of the' colonial people to the ruling clique. The so-called patriotism of the P.A.P. belongs to the second category that I have described.

Mr Speaker, we have already made our stand very clear. We cannot make it any clearer. There is a war going on in Borneo. They say that Borneo is being invaded. So let me deal with this point now. Borneo belongs to the people of Borneo. It is the British who have forced their way into North Borneo and occupied it. As the waves of anti-colonialism mount, the people rise to the occasion to drive away their colonial masters. They do not want to be ruled by the British any longer. So for fear that the people will succeed in getting rid of them, the British thought of an idea by including North Borneo in Malaysia.

Like the British, the Alliance Government has sent some troops to suppress the uprising in North Borneo. Now, who is being invaded? The P.A.P., although it is without any troops, is also shouting that North Borneo is being invaded by foreigners. Who is actually guilty of aggression? Has anyone the right to deny the right of the people of a country to fight against foreign rule? The people of Borneo want to fight for their own rights. They want to fight for democracy and independence. Borneo belongs to them and they want to regain it from a foreign ruler. So the British should actually leave the matter entirely in the hands of the Borneo people. Because of the formation of Malaysia by force, there is trouble going on in North Borneo. There is also trouble arising from conscription. The ruling clique want the people of Singapore and Malaya to support the British in their suppressive actions against the people of Borneo. How can we give them such support? No, certainly not.

At the present juncture, the Alliance Government and the P.A.P. are faced with certain difficulties arising out of the formation of Malaysia by force. Because of this the people are against them. Internationally they have received criticisms from Afro-Asian countries; internally they are isolated. So to resolve all these difficulties, they have no alternative but to expand the armed forces and to prepare for war. The Alliance Government, in doing this and in trying to obtain the support of the people, are making full use of the expression "loyalty and patriotism". They try to equate the interests of the minority to the interests of the majority in the view of the broad masses of the people. They try to say that the fight for their own interests is a fight for the interests of the people. What good will anyone get from this fight?

Members of the P.A.P. contend that conscription is intended for the defence of our own nation. The Minister for Labour has said that every citizen has a duty to his nation when it is confronted with a crisis. Others have said that it is an honour to serve in the army. Yes, all this is very true. But we want to ask this question: if we should serve in the army today, as they say, to defend Malaysia, what good will it do to the people? Malaysia has been formed and within the short space of a year a series of events have taken place, and some events are still taking place, much to the disadvantage of the people. They say that Malaysia will bring prosperity and happiness to the people. But during the course of the formation of Malaysia, we have mounting unemployment, a great slump in trade, and a lot of businessmen have to put down their shutters. This what they call "prosperity and happiness". If we were asked to defend something that is useless to the people, it would be absurd. No one in his right senses will ever do this.

There is one other important point. You may say that Malaysia is now independent. But who is in actual control of the forces? Who is directing the war in North Borneo? It is none other than the colonial masters - the British. They are all in actual control of our forces. Are they doing all this for the interests of the people of Malaysia'? No, they are doing it for their own interests because they want to continue with their exploitation in this region.

At the time when Malaya was invaded by the Japanese, that was the time when the Malaysian people required foreign aid. But what happened to the British troops then that were described as troops fighting for our interests? Who actually rose to fight against the Japanese? The P.A.P., the Australian troops, or the British troops? I believe, Mr Speaker, they would not have the guts to answer my question. Those who are capable of safeguarding Malaysia are our own people, not foreign troops. The words and utterances of the P.A.P. are not different from those of the imperialists. How can one imagine that the independence and freedom of a nation require the protection of a foreign power?

Mr Speaker, not so long ago the nonaligned nations held a conference in Cairo. What were the resolutions of that conference? Those taking part in that conference resolved on an immediate and unconditional withdrawal of foreign troops from colonial countries. On the agenda of that conference, foreign bases was a topic for discussion. On this mat ter their resolution called upon the imperialists to give up all their military bases in foreign lands. Now, are foreign troops and foreign bases in a position to protect us? The Party in power says that they have got international support and support from Afro-Asian countries. But what are the actual facts? The facts have already been mentioned and they are very clear. One resolution passed at the conference of non-aligned nations was to condemn the existence of foreign bases and foreign troops in colonial countries. And what is most surprising is that the so-called independent Malaysia was not invited to participate in the conference of non-aligned nations in Cairo. Why? It is very clear - it is because Malaysia is pro-colonial and is not on the side of the majority of anti-colonial nations of the world. Instead of fighting against imperialism and colonialism, Malaysia is helping them. That is why Malaysia was not invited to the conference.

The Deputy Prime Minister has stressed the need to continue with the military pacts that we have with the British and the need for foreign troops in our country. We in principle are against the so-called military defence pact with Britain. If we say that this pact is necessary, then we will be scorned by other independent nations in the world. Just imagine one nation having to resort to foreign military aid in order to safeguard its own integrity. Is it really necessary? Cambodia is a neutral country and is non-aligned. The P.A.P. is proud of it, but has Cambodia signed any military pact with America or Britain to safeguard her own sovereignty? Let us look at South Vietnam which is being bullied by the Americans, The Cambodians do not require any foreign protection. If the Ministers and the Backbenchers of the Government do not recognise this fact, then let me tell them that in Cambodia they have been having some trouble along their border recently because of American stooges in South Vietnam. Ac cording to P.A.P. logic, it appears that Cambodia has to sign a military pact with Britain in order to counter these acts of aggression. No, there is no need. Cambodia does not do so because it wants peace. It is an independent country and it is not isolated internationally. In spite of the fact that it does not have troops or atomic weapons, it can still exist in this world because it has the will and the determination to exist. The people there love peace. They love freedom and they want to preserve their independence. Cambodia has the support of its people and the world.

My colleague has also said that Malaysia has brought about great dif ficulties and hardship. If this should go on, it will be harmful to our people. If this is allowed to go on by force or by some other means, then the consequences should be pinned on the shoulders of the P.A.P.

The Minister for Labour, in trying to defend the Alliance Government, has said that the Alliance Government in expanding the armed forces is not preparing for war. He has said that the Alliance is trying to stop foreign aggression. Let us look back to 1947 and the period before the formation of Malaysia. Was there any necessity to prepare for war then? Talking about the year 1957, which he said was a terrible period, the real master was the British and not the Alliance. He has also said that he had said before that we wanted to safeguard Malaya. But I want to point out that Malaya is still within Malaysia. If the P.A.P. and the Alliance Government are prepared to accept the views of the people by getting away from the control of the British and the colonialists - that is by dissolving Malaysia - then we will come forward to safeguard Malaya.

Before Malaysia was formed, we had already pointed out to the Party in power that Malaysia would not get the support of the people and that it was neo-colonial. We said that time and again and also expressed our correct views, hut the paid no attention to us. So, as a result of the formation of Malaysia, there came about difficulties and they try to put the blame on us. They want to get us to fight for the interests of the colonialists.

The P.A.P. always say that a citizen has a duty to his nation. We all agree. But they do not mean what they say. The people are reluctant to become cannon fodder of the imperialists and the colonialists. Two months ago we carried out a house-to-house visit all over the island and we came to the conclusion that the people do not desire the expansion of the army. Now if the P.A.P. want the people to serve in the army, then they themselves should first set a good example. During the period after Malaysia there are enough lessons for the P.A.P. to learn, in spite of their slogans saying that they serve the interests of the people, and that the people support Malaysia, the people do not give them their support.

The P.A.P. have handed over some powers to the Central Government as a result of Malaysia. In spite of this, they still persist in continuing with their actions. If they should persist further, I am afraid that the results will be tragic. So in order to curry favour with the Central Government, they have to say things which are against their wishes. This is a good lesson for them to learn.

7.26 p.m.

Inche Mahmud Awang (Kampong Kapor): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I have still not quite understood the arguments put forward by the hon. Members opposite. They have submitted this motion before us which says that the seriousness of the situation will affect the lives and properties of the people of Singapore. If a leader is sincerely responsible towards his country, he should inevitably say that the lives and property of the people of Singapore should be safeguarded so that our enemies, whose intention is to destroy the lives and property of our people, can be prevented from colonising us. Unfortunately, the hon. Members have not spoken in that tone. They do not defend our right to protect the lives and property of our people and of our State. On the contrary, they say that our country is defended by' foreign forces. Are they conscious that the Government is exhorting its citizens to respond to its call to protect the lives and property of our people?

Mr Speaker: Order. If the hon. Member could keep a little distance from the mike, perhaps we can get on better. His voice is coming through very loud.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think I was a little carried away by emotion when I talk about lives and property.

Mr Speaker, the Government has called upon the people to come forward to defend and protect their lives and property. It is not our intention to call upon the people outside the State. In the circumstances, the Opposition Members are not aware of the situation. Perhaps they have not read the local newspapers and they are not aware of the landings which took place in Pontian and Labis, and more recently in Muar.

Those troops who landed on our soil could be correctly referred to as foreign troops whose intention it is to destroy the lives and property of the people. Because of the presence of these foreign troops who want to destroy our lives and property, we are duty bound to protect and safeguard our lives and property. We must therefore defend our country so that the lives and property of the people might be protected.

Mr Speaker, I am obliged to repeat "lives and property" over and over again in the hope that I can bring home to hon. Members opposite the true meaning of these words.

They say that Malaysia has been forced upon us, whereas in fact they realise that they were rejected by the people at the Referendum, although they tried to instigate our people into voting against merger and Malaysia. Perhaps leaders like the hon. Members opposite have no standing - they have no responsibilities towards the people. Perhaps they conveniently forget that the Referendum which was held two years ago has taught them an object lesson that our country aspired to merger and Malaysia. Therefore, it goes without saying that their allegation that Malaysia was forced upon us is nothing but a falsehood or untruth which was uttered by irresponsible Members in the House in order to mislead the people. And they further say that we must learn in order to lead our people to the path of peace and harmony. What they have said earlier on contradicts what they ask of us to do in order to achieve peace and harmony. They tell us not to defend our country. They desire, in collaboration with their foreign masters, to rule us with a view to breaking the law and order of this country. They also say that only they are prepared to listen to the advice of their Secretary-General, Mr Lim Chin Siong. They are not prepared to heed the advice of the people of this country. Their Secretary-General has advised that the lives and property of the people must be protected in peace and harmony! The advice from the people of this country is unheeded by them and they are in collusion with their foreign overlords with intent to destroy their own electorate who have property in this country. Needless to say, such leaders have no place 1n our midst, since they have enjoyed peace and freedom of speech but are not prepared to shoulder ,their responsibilities to the State. Let those Opposition leaders scrutinise the local newspapers. If they are not prepared to go through the English or Malay newspapers, then they can read the Sin Chew fit Poh or the Nanyang Siang Pao from which they can see reports of landings at Labis and Muar. Surely they realise that lives and property are being threatened there, and that therefore it is our responsibility to defend our country from our enemies, and thus protect the lives of our fellow citizens and prevent their property from being grabbed by such foreign masters.

Mr Speaker, that is all I wish to say. I hope the Opposition Members will realise the gravity of the motion they have tabled and how to be responsible to this country.

7.39 p.m.

Mr Chia Thye Poh (Jurong): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir,I will try as far as possible to give a brief reply to all the criticisms levelled at us by the Government side regarding our motion and I will also touch upon the amendment of the Deputy Prime Minister.

We all know that today the people are faced with a very serious situation, and a depression in trade and commerce. The people are suffering and there is unemployment. There are also other ill consequences. So you can see the seriousness of the situation.

Firstly, in Sabah and Sarawak, you can see a guerilla war going on, and it is becoming more serious every day. From the Press we have read how many British soldiers have been killed or security force members wounded. We have also read that British aeroplanes have been shot at. We can see that the situation is worsening and deteriorating.

Also in Malaya in Johore - Malacca and Muar - there have been youths landing along the coast. It is undeniable that among those landed there have been some local Chinese and Malay youths. The Government have declared a curfew in those areas and this has affected the livelihood of the people there.

In addition to this, we have also seen the Alliance Government going along the path of military expansion and embarking on a policy of war. At present Malaysia has been declared to be in a state of emergency and all freedom and right of association and assembly have been banned. The Government have been using money earned by the blood and sweat of the people to buy armaments. They are carrying out enforced conscription throughout the territory in order to send our youths to any place to fight.

Now this situation cannot be said to be not serious. You cannot say that this situation does not have any far-reaching consequences and influence on the future of our people. Who is the culprit? Who is to blame for this situation today? Political party propaganda by the other side has claimed that it has been from Indonesia, in two ways: external military aggression and internal subversion. They say that because of this foreign aggression, therefore, we have these ill consequences and this serious situation. Now this is their logic. They have told the people that Malaysia will bring about peace and prosperity. But what is the actual result? The actual result is that Malaysia has brought about pain and suffering and misery, because Malaysia is a product of British neo-colonialism, because it is not in the interests of the people but in the interests of the British colonialists. The Party in power says that it is ridiculous to say so, but even the British people themselves have claimed what I have said not very long ago. A British newspaper, the Observer, published an article saying that Malaysia was a communal arrangement. Not very long ago a British Conservative Party Minister said that Malaysia was very important to Britain. Why? Because Britain has great financial investments in this territory, and also this territory would serve as an important military link and a point of communications in a world-wide network. So from this you can see the motives of the British in setting up Malaysia. It is merely for their own interests.

The Minister for Finance (Dr Goh Keng Swee): On a point of information.

Mr Chia Thye Poh: All right.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: The hon. Member has mentioned British investments in Malaysia. Now, can I ask him how much British investment there is in the Malayan States as compared with British investments in Sabah and Sarawak which makes it so important that Sabah and Sarawak must join the new Federation of Malaysia?

Mr Chia Thye Poh: (In Mandarin): Sir, I think the Minister for Finance is trying to test me. According to my information on the question as to how much investment there is, I understand it is �400 million sterling by the British. So the British, because of the financial benefits and because of their military advantages in having this area, tried to form Malaysia.

Dr Goh Keng Swee rose ---

Mr Chia Thye Poh resumed his seat.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Sir, the hon. Member has said �400 million or what ever it is. My question is, "How much in the Malayan States, and how much in the Borneo States?" If Malaysia was formed because of British economic interests, then British investments in Sabah and Sarawak must be so great that they want to bring it into Malaysia. My point is. 90 per cent of British investment is in Malaya in rubber estates and tin mines. So what is the point of bringing in Sabah and Sarawak? I mean. where is the benefit?

Mr Chia Thye Poh: (In Mandarin): From the Minister's question asked just now, it is clear that he wants to defend British interests. He has claimed that most of the investment is in Malaya. Now this goes to prove the point that Britain wanted to set up Malaysia in order to protect its economic interests in Malaya. As I have said, the investment amounts to about �400 million. It does not matter where most of it lies - in Malaya or in Sabah and Sarawak. If they want to bring Sabah and Sarawak into Malaya, it is because the struggle of the people in these areas against colonialism is gaining momentum. Seeing this situation, the British wanted some agent to look after their interests in this area. Under these circumstances, they formed Malaysia. Because the British point of view is such and the motive is such, it has aroused strong opposition by the people in these five territories, and the people of Sabah and Sarawak have started a struggle against Malaysia. Even in Singapore the people are doing so. How do the Government resort to suppressing this movement? They are closing down and banning the organisations and arresting the people. Under such circumstances, the people of Sabah have no other alternative but to take up arms against the British. No matter how the Party in power may say that this is very terrible and violent. Even in the recent non-aligned nations' conference in Cairo, there was a resolution which stated that colonial territories should be independent as soon as possible. If the colonial powers would not let them be independent, then the colonial people could resort to any means, including force, to achieve independence.

So in Sabah the people have been waging a struggle for independence and the British have tried to suppress them. It is just like the struggle that is taking place in, say, Cuba and other colonial territories. It is a righteous struggle. No matter how the British persuade the Federal Government to do things which meet with the interests of the British, i.e., to form Malaysia and to salvage their sinking political fortunes in this area and to look after their interests, the struggle of the people of Borneo has become stronger and more vehement. I think it will continue until success is achieved. It is only a matter of time before the people will be victorious. There is no doubt that they will get support from various quarters - spiritual support as well as moral support. Perhaps Malaysia will be getting support from the British and elsewhere, as has already happened in the past. For instance, the liberation of West Irian had the support of people in various Asian countries. So the struggle for freedom in Borneo will also receive the support from Afro-Asian countries and all those who love independence and freedom.

Just now I have mentioned this and now I would like to say how the situation can be resolved. The Alliance Government has been trying to increase their military armaments and to go along the path of war. Not very long ago the Prime Minister, the Tunku, went to Britain and America for the purpose of asking for more military and financial aid. America also agreed to provide more military equipment, such as helicopters, and even technical personnel to train military officers here. In order to beg for more money and military aid, the Alliance Government also announced its support for South Vietnam, thus running the danger of involvement in the American War. How much military aid will come from America we wilt see in the future.

Britain is also trying to build up her military armaments here even to the extent of supplying nuclear warheads to be stationed here. Thus there will be danger to the lives of the people in this territory under the pretext of preserving Malaysia. They are actually making ready to expand war in this area when necessary. This is just like a kind of competition. America also puts ---

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, on a point of information.

Mr Speaker: Would the Member give way to the Prime Minister?

Mr Chia Thye Poh resumed his seat.

The Prime Minister: I am a little puzzled on this. Because the British wanted the exploitation of the �400 million worth of investments, therefore Borneo and Sabah were thrown in for that. But now the Member says the British and Americans also want to enlarge the war in this area. But if they do that, they will be losing money. So I am a bit puzzled. Are we to understand the Barisan view is that the British are interested in investments and profits, or in war and destruction, which would mean the end of their investments and profits?

Mr Chia Thye Poh: (In Mandarin): The imperialists, of course, have their motives in expanding the war in this area. For instance, America, when she cannot maintain her position in South Vietnam, will have to extend the war into North Vietnam. Some officers of the British forces have also suggested the bombing of Indonesia. So in order to preserve their interests, they would go to the extent of expanding the war. So there is a sort of armament competition in this area. It is a question of building up military strength here. America wants to preserve her military balance here; so she is trying to dump in this area her military build-up. So Malaysia would become a battlefield in South-East Asia. Now, of what benefit is it to the people? None at all. The people under these circumstances will suffer more in an imperialist war in this area.

Furthermore, the Alliance Government, in addition to buying armaments, is trying to conscript youths to be soldiers. No matter how the Party in power tries to explain that the conscription of youths is for the defence of the country, we say that conscription of the youths is to defend British interests, and it is a deception on the people. The British have never given us any assurance to protect us. They have poured into our territory and they are not our own people. Who are in control of the forces here? None other than the British. So to say that conscription is to replace British forces does not hold water. The real purpose is to make the people serve imperialist interests and to force the youths to undergo military training. What will be the period of training then? As far as we understand, the war here will be a long one, a war of attrition. Even the British military officers have said ---

Mr Speaker: Order. Moment of Interruption.