ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR 1967

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [3rd Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

2.42 p.m.

Head 1001 -

The Chairman: When we rose on Friday, the 16th December, we were debating an amendment moved by Mr Sim Boon Woo to subhead 1051 under Head 1001. I will propose the Question again, "That the sum to be allocated for Head 1001 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1051."

Does the Minister for Culture and Social Affairs wish to add to anything he said on Friday?

The Minister for Culture and Social Affairs (Inche Othman Bin Wok): Mr Speaker, Sir, as I said in this House just before we adjourned last Friday, it is outside the jurisdiction of the Sports Department to direct or order any sports association on the question of premises to be used by the association. It is up to the association concerned to choose the type of premises it feels it can afford. If it has adequate funds, it will probably acquire its own separate premises. But if it is a poor association, then it may probably have to share premises with another sports association.

It is not uncommon, Sir, to see two or three sports associations occupying one premises. In the case mentioned by the Member for Changi, the sharing of one premises by the three sports associations concerned would appear to be a convenient arrangement which has been adopted to their mutual benefit. I understand that they are being managed by one and the same official.

The function of the Sports Department, besides organising and promoting sports activities, is to help, advise and co-ordinate the activities of the various sports associations not only in national sports events but also in international sports competitions. It will also give guidance to sports associations in planning central training either by helping to arrange for the services of instructors and coaches, or by granting monetary assistance where required.

We have also the Singapore Sports Council, which is an advisory body set up under the Ministry of Social Affairs, consisting of representatives from the various sports associations and officials from the Ministry, including those of the Sports Department. The main function of the Singapore Sports Council is to organise the Pesta Sukan and to advise the Minister in charge of sports on the promotion of sports activities in the Republic. The Ministry is also looking into the possibility of establishing a Singapore Sports Foundation which will be the main body for the provision of the necessary funds for sports promotion. I am optimistic, Sir, that when it is established, all sports-loving people in the Republic, including the business community, will not hesitate to contribute to the Foundation.

2.45 p.m.

Hitherto we have had a very generous response from the business community to our appeals for funds. This enthusiastic response from the business community has enabled us to send three sports delegations abroad - to the Commonwealth Games at Kingston, the first Ganefo Games in Phnom Penh, and the Asian Games which is still going on in Bangkok.

I can assure the Member that when the Sports Department begins to function fully within the next few months, there will be a considerable increase in the tempo of sports promotion in the Republic with a view to achieving higher standards all round and ensuring that the cream of our sportsmen and sportswomen will find their way to the top in national and international competitions. The Ministry is now looking for qualified and competent men to man the Sports Department, and applications for jobs in the department will be called for by advertisement soon.

I can also assure the Member that with the establishment of the Sports Department, the Ministry will be reviewing the position of the various sports associations to ensure that they are properly and smoothly run. The Member need not fear that officials, sportsmen and sportswomen sent abroad to participate in international sports competition will be going there just for a holiday and to enjoy themselves. We have set a special Selection Committee under the chairmanship of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Affairs whose job is to select officials and sportsmen and sportswomen who are worthy to represent Singapore abroad. As you will have seen from the selections made for the Asian Games, high standards of performance and conduct are required.

I should like to add, Sir, that under Head 0804 subhead 2255, there is a sum of $175,000 for the promotion of sports. This sum represents various donations which have been received from civic-minded business firms and members of the public as contributions to the Government for the promotion of sports. All existing sports associations are registered under the Societies Ordinance and their bona fides are beyond question. However, it is possible that some sports associations are badly run, with the result that the officials make use of the name of the association to raise funds without proper accounting of some of these donations. Should this practice come to the notice of the Government, the case will be properly investigated and appropriate action taken where necessary. Here again, Sir, it is up to the members of the associations themselves to see that they elect dedicated leaders who will discharge their duties properly and honourably and will not use the association to further their own selfish interests or to acquire funds for their own ends.

Mr Sim Boon Woo (Changi): In view of the Minister's explanation, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1001 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1071.

Could the Minister inform this House how many political parties are registered with the Registrar of Societies? What measures is he proposing to take against those communal, political and pro-Communist trade unions and old boys' associations?

Sir, this House will agree with me that the existence of these organisations is a tremendous threat to the peace and security of our Republic. For instance, the pro-Communist Barisan Sosialis have chosen to carry on their so-called struggle in the streets, and not in Parliament, with a view to creating riots and chaos, and have resorted to intimidation and threats to our law-abiding citizens.

Sir, I want to bring to the notice of the Minister and the Minister of State of Defence that about 40 unruly Barisan members visited my constituency in Pulau Tekong Besar last Saturday and distributed anti-national pamphlets. They visited one of the residents who happened to disagree with their logic and their behaviour. This poor resident was surrounded by these unruly Barisan birds ---

The Chairman: Mr Sim, I take it that there are no prosecutions pending or that you are not speaking on any matters that are sub judice?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Thank you for your guidance. I beg to withdraw.

And this poor chap was being threatened and intimidated.

The Chairman: Mr Sim, can I have your assurance that you know of no pending prosecutions out of the matters of which you are speaking now?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Yes, Sir.

The Chairman: Because, if there are any pending prosecutions, I must rule you out of order straightaway. Otherwise, you may proceed.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: There are none, Sir.

The Chairman: Then you may proceed.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: As regards these communal political parties, such as the M.I.C., M.C.A., or U.M.N.O., whose existence no doubt is highly detrimental to the interests of the Republic and to our efforts to create a multi-racial society, I hope the Minister will give this House the assurance that he will deal properly with these unruly elements in our Republic. Sir, I beg to move.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: Sir, in answer to the query by the Member for Changi, there are at present 1,738 registered societies in Singapore, out of which 12 are political societies. They are the People's Action Party, the Barisan Sosialis, U.M.N.O. Singapore, M.I.C. Singapore, Party Rakyat (Singapore State Division), P.M.I.P. Singapore, U.D.P., M.C.A. (Singapore Branch), Alliance Party Singapura, Peninsula Malay Union, United People's Party, and the Workers' Party.

As I have said, Sir, all these organisations have been registered under the Societies Ordinance, and under its provisions any organisation which is being used for unlawful purposes or for purposes incompatible with the peace and good order of the Republic can be deregistered. On de-registration, such organisations will become unlawful societies and any person managing or assisting in the management of any unlawful society is liable, on conviction, to imprisonment for a term which may extend to five years.

I can assure the Member that a close watch is being kept on the activities of anti-national and communal organisations. And should they be found to be involved in activities which are contrary to the national interest, appropriate action will be taken.

The Member may also remember that at the beginning of this Session I introduced a Bill to amend and consolidate the law relating to societies. The main change provided by this Societies Bill is the power of the Registrar to refuse the registration of any society which is a political association if its rules do not provide for its membership to be confined to citizens of Singapore, or if it has such a provision or connection with any organisation outside Singapore as is considered to be contrary to the national interest. Any political organisation already registered which fails to amend its rules to meet these requirements within a reasonable period, in accordance with the request from the Registrar, may be dissolved by the Minister.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Teong Eng Siong (Sembawang): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1001 be reduced by $l00.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap and Madam Chan Choy Siong.)

Mr Speaker, this Ministry plays a very important role in our society and has a heavy responsibility to shoulder, i.e., cultural construction and the social welfare of our country. I shall now endeavour to speak on culture in general. Generally speaking, in the past few years, healthy cultural activities have been flourishing in Singapore, although there has also been some sexy or unhealthy culture.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: Sir, would it not be better for the Member to speak when the next Head, Culture Division, comes up?

The Chairman: The Member has not got an amendment under the Head "Culture Division", but he can speak on the amendment to the whole Head 1002 standing in the names of Inche Mohd. Ariff, Inche Rahamat, Mr Lingam, Inche Mahmud, and Mr Sim.

Mr Teong, your remarks are more appropriate to Head 1002. So if you will address the House when the last amendment+ on page 20 of the Order Paper Supplement is debated, it will be more in order.

• The amendment reads as follows:

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $100.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I feel that my remarks are on a matter of policy relating to Culture, which I think are appropriate under this Head, but I shall be happy to accept your ruling.

The Chairman: The present Head is related more to Social Affairs. The Culture Division, Head 1002, would be the appropriate one, and you can speak on it.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I feel that what I am going to say is related to other aspects of the Ministry of Culture and not just on Culture alone.

The Chairman: Could you please proceed? But in case I find that these matters are more related to Head 1002, I will draw your attention to the matter.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I ask your indulgence to listen to me first before you decide. Mr Speaker, as I have already indicated earlier, healthy cultural activities have been flourishing in recent years. This is a good sign, of course, although there have also been some unhealthy cultural activities going on, as I mentioned to this House on 5th December during my adjournment speech. In any case, when we are making efforts to promote healthy cultural activities, we must also pay attention to the positive measures taken by civic organisations and individuals. We must pay our respect and tribute to their efforts.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, will you please bear with me? If you look at Head 1001, all the matters under it relate to the Social Affairs Division of the Ministry. We have the Central Complaints Bureau, the Registry of Marriages, the Muslim Religious Affairs Division, the Legal Aid Bureau, the Probation and Aftercare Section. The matters on which you are speaking properly come under Head 1002 and I will certainly call on you when we discuss that head in about ten or fifteen minutes' time.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I shall change my speech.

The Chairman: Could you address the House on Social Affairs?

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Thank you. In talking about the other aspects of the Ministry of Social Affairs, I would like to direct my remarks to the policy of the Social Welfare Department. Mr Speaker, we are spending a great deal of money every year on public assistance, amounting to about $10 million a year, in order to help the poor and unemployed people, including all those who suffer from T.B. With Government assistance, these unfortunate people are able to pull along for the time being. I have discovered that the efficiency in the Department of Social Welfare is praiseworthy. In my Meet-the-people sessions, I am receiving less and less complaints against this department. This goes to show that it is taking great care in handling matters relating to the people receiving public assistance. For example, the payments are very prompt and very little trouble is given to the recipients of public assistance.

But I have some other aspects to deal with. The recipients of public assistance have complained of the inadequacy of such assistance. I give you one concrete example. In my constituency, there is a widow with two children. Every month she receives public assistance amounting to $36. But out of this she has to pay $20 for rent, leaving a balance of $16. According to her, she is unable to maintain three persons on $16 a month. As a result of this complaint, I have suggested to the person concerned to do some work, for instance, washing clothes. She has said that if this is discovered, then her public assistance allowance will be cut off. Under these circumstances, we can see that the public assistance given to this family is far from adequate to maintain it. I would like to ask the Minister whether he is prepared to consider giving some kind of rent subsidy or increase the amount of public assistance in cases like this, so that the people concerned will be able at least to live at subsistence level.

The second point I wish to raise relates to disabled persons and children. At the present moment, there is no home for them, other than two which are not run by the Government. One is run by the Salvation Army which takes care of disabled children and persons, and the other is run by another organisation. But there is no Government run organisation, institute or home for these people. I do not know whether in our future plan, or even at the present moment, the Government is prepared to set up a home to house these disabled persons. Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap (Geylang Serai): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, I wish to get an explanation from the Minister for Social Affairs. He informed the House recently that there was no suggestion to give a rent subsidy to the recipients of the social welfare dole. As the Housing Board rents in Singapore are relatively high, it is appropriate that the Minister should consider the possibility of paying a rent subsidy to the recipients of the social welfare dole. in the absence of a rent subsidy, these recipients are obliged to lodge with their friends or relatives. The officers of the Social Welfare Department will then consider that they have received all the assistance from their lodgers. This is an added responsibility to those who provide lodging for them. This also results in people refusing to provide lodging facilities to recipients of Social Welfare assistance, because they fear they will be responsible. Therefore, I raise the matter with the Minister with a view to asking him to consider giving a rent subsidy to those recipients of Social Welfare assistance in the hope that it will help them in their livelihood.

Mr Speaker, the Republic of Singapore has practised democracy by allowing people to carry out political activities freely. All this is under the charge of the Registrar of Societies, which is under the Ministry of Social Affairs. There are occasions when some societies commit a breach of the rules. However, the Registrar has taken no steps to remedy the situation and this has resulted in the societies committing further breaches. I am not quite sure whether the department concerned is aware that U.M.N.O. Singapore, which is under the control of Syed Ali Redha and Inche Ahmad Haji Taff, are engaged in activities which are against the law.

There are three types of breaches of the law. First, members of U.M.N.O. Singapore are not elected from amongst their members in Singapore. This was explained by Inche Ahmad Haji Taff, as head of U.M.N.O., at the U.M.N.O. delegates meeting, a few months back. This was reported in the Berita Harian. The committee of U.M.N.O. Singapore was appointed by leaders in U.M.N.O. Malaya. There is nobody in Singapore U.M.N.O, who can dissolve the committee. With this announcement, it is clear to us that U.M.N.O. Singapore is not a political body in Singapore but is a part of U.M.N.O. Malaya and receives directions from Malaya.

Secondly, I wish to say in this House that U.M.N.O. Singapore, which is led by Inche Ahmad Haji Taff, has not yet shown its allegiance to the Republic of Singapore. Although this country is independent and sovereign, U.M.N.O. Singapore even up till today has never hoisted the Singapore flag, not even in U.M.N.O. House at Changi Road, when the people of Singapore celebrates National Day. This is to demonstrate their hostility towards Singapore.

Thirdly, Inche Ahmad Haji Taff and Syed Ali Redha, who claim to be leaders of U.M.N.O. Singapore, have collaborated with the employees of Alsagoff Estate in circulating application forms for the purchase of land in Alsagoff Estate. This is done from the office of U.M.N.O. Singapore. These people have been engaged in false propaganda to the effect that if the residents of Geylang Serai refuse to fill these forms and purchase the land, then the Government in 1968 will acquire the land and demolish the Malay houses and instead put up flats. This has proved that Inche Ahmad Haji Taft and Syed Ali Redha have used U.M.N.O. and U.M.N.O. House as a tool for their nefarious activities and selfish ends, in order to create unrest among the Malays, so that they will be hostile to the Singapore Government.

What steps does the Minister propose to instruct the Registrar of Societies to take, and will he condone such nefarious acts? I feel that if these people are allowed to continue with their nefarious activities, they will endanger the safety and peace of Singapore. As U.M.N.O. Singapore has the same name as U.M.N.O. Malaya, this will confuse the people of the two independent countries. U.M.N.O. Singapore is engaged in undesirable activities controlled by Inche Ahmad Haji Taff and Inche Syed Ali Redha. As U.M.N.O. Malaya is the ruling party in Malaysia, so is the P.A.P. the ruling party in Singapore. We should, therefore, maintain a close relationship between the two neighbouring countries. We should avoid indulging in matters which will lead to a misunderstanding between the two countries. In order to solve this problem, I would like to suggest to the Singapore Government that the name of U.M.N.O. and its flag should be prohibited from being hoisted in any building, including the U.M.N.O. building in Singapore, until the amendments to the U.M.N.O. Constitution have been submitted to and approved by the Registrar of Societies.

Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, under this Head 1001, I would like to touch upon matters relating to women in Singapore which have been shelved for a very long time.

3.15 p.m.

Mr Speaker, as a female representative of the people, I crave your indulgence and ask you to allow me to speak about the problems of women after Singapore achieved independence. It is undoubtedly clear that since the P.A.P, came to power in Singapore, there have been tremendous achievements all round for everybody to see. However, concerning the basic problems of women, up to date there has not been much improvement. Such problems are still in existence. As an efficient Government we must not be complacent about our achievements so far. On the contrary, we must go a step further and work progressively for the people in general, irrespective of sex. We must contribute to the population as a whole, particularly as there is no Opposition. As representatives of the people, we are given an additional role to play, i.e., to supervise the work of Government in general so that we can truly say that we have come from the people and shall work for the people and we will go back to the people at the proper time.

Mr Speaker, basically speaking, the social problems of women are no longer of an outstanding nature. Certain efforts have been made by Government to improve the lot of women, and to do away with the legacies left behind by the colonial past. For example, in 1961 the big axe was swung to do away with polygamy in Singapore which had existed for over one hundred years. Steps have also been taken in some sections to see that equal pay is given to women for equal work so that the status of women is raised to the same as that of men. Thus women's social problems have partially been solved.

More creches and clinics have been set up all over Singapore. Homes for misguided girls and women have also been set up in Singapore. Action has also been taken to wipe out illiteracy among women folk in Singapore. But the efforts exerted so far to solve the problems of women have not shown that the Government has been able completely to improve the status of women as a whole and solve their entire social problems basically. The Government should look into the matter and try to improve the social status of women in Singapore as promised by them.

Mr Speaker, circumstances have changed in Singapore. Our country has become independent and has entered a new stage in its history, particularly in the population where one half is female and the other half is male. In other words, both women and men are equal in political potentials and we must encourage women folk to come out and take an active part in social activities together with men so that they can work together shoulder to shoulder in national construction.

We must also depend on the efforts of women to improve our economy. In this respect, it is the duty of the Government to look after the widows and the children. Mr Speaker, to remove this injustice, you will agree with me that it is the duty of the Government to take effective and immediate action to assist women to stand on their own economically so as to change the entire status of women in society. This is what we have always been reminding the Government. We have been urging it to implement the pledges as mentioned in The Tasks Ahead by setting up a Women's Institute. This matter was raised by me in 1965 when I spoke on it with the Minister concerned. The reply given to me was that the authorities were still considering the setting up of this institute. But up to date, Mr Speaker, we are still awaiting its establishment. There has been no better reply than the one already given so far. There is a Chinese saying to this effect - that we only hear footsteps, but we do not see the person coming down the ladder. So today we must raise this matter again in this House so as to urge the Government to take immediate steps to set up a Women's Institute so that women of all races would be able, under the banner of this institute, to consider the problems of women and try to solve them by a concerted effort.

Mr Speaker, I shall stress again the importance of setting up a Women's Institute in Singapore. It is not an institute of an advisory nature only or just for discussion purposes or for prestige. It must be an organisation charged with the responsibility of working out solutions to women's problems and of improving their employment opportunities and welfare. More important still, this organisation must start a campaign for the improvement of women's status in Singapore, for example, educating rural women folk, making more women understand current affairs and the political situation, creating more employment opportunities for them, encouraging more women to take part in social activities, teaching them handicrafts and the importance of their role in national construction through their own labour and sweat. All these are matters which must be considered for the actual raising of women's status so that they are able to contribute not only to the needs of their own family but also to the needs of society.

Mr Speaker, I hope that the matter I am raising now will receive better consideration and a better reply from the Minister. It is my hope that he will give new hope to the women in Singapore.

Mrs Devan Nair (Moulmein): (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, the Home for the Aged, which is run by the Social Welfare Department, is not serving Muslim and Indian food. Malay and Tamil newspapers are also not provided. These matters have been brought to my notice. If they are true, can the Minister take appropriate steps to remedy the situation?

Secondly, if a husband is the breadwinner, then the public assistance given to the family who live with their parents is very small. If there are four children in the family, very little money is given to them. The parents can provide only lodging, but they cannot provide other facilities. The mother has to provide food for five persons, clothing and other amenities. She has to pay for all the expenses, except the rent for the house. The public assistance given by the Social Welfare Department is not enough even for one week. The Department has to look into this and increase the public assistance given to such families.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Members for Sembawang, Geylang Serai and Moulmein have all raised the same question, i.e., whether the Ministry will consider an increase in public assistance grants to the present recipients. The Member for Geylang Serai, I believe, has also raised the question of whether a recipient can be given a rent subsidy. Sir, as a matter of policy, it would not be desirable to provide an increase in public assistance grants to cover rentals being paid for Housing Board flats. If this were done, a similar increase would have to be given to other public assistance recipients who are not living in Housing Board flats. And this will mean a general increase in the rate of public assistance grants. The present rates of public assistance are already the highest in this part of the world, and it is not considered desirable to increase them. The rates are: $21 for the head of household; $10 for the wife; $8 for each dependant of 16 years and above; and $5 for each dependant below 16 years. The maximum allowance payable to a family is $90 per month. In addition, the Ministry also provides allowances from the Silver Jubilee Fund for children of widows who are attending school - those children who have to go to schools further away from their homes. I will be happy, Sir, if Members will bring specific cases about the hardship of widows to me because their children require assistance for going to school, and I will personally look into the matter.

3.30 p.m.

On the question raised by the Member for Geylang Serai, that U.M.N.O. Singapore has not, since the independence of Singapore, flown the Singapore flag on its building, I would like Members to know that U.M.N.O. Singapore has been informed that, in view of Singapore's status as a sovereign and independent Republic, it would be desirable for its name and symbol to be changed, as they resemble those of U.M.N.O. Malaya and may give the impression that U.M.N.O. Singapore still has connections with U.M.N.O. Malaya. U.M.N.O. Singapore, however, has not complied with the request to change its name and symbol.

In the new Societies Bill which has been introduced in Parliament, there is provision requiring any society which is formed for political purposes to have its membership confined to Singapore citizens and to have no affiliation or connection with any body outside Singapore which is considered to be contrary to the national interest. The Registrar is empowered to refuse registration of any society that does not meet this requirement. If any such society which has already been registered fails, within a reasonable period, to amend its rules to comply with this requirement, it may be de-registered.

At this moment, Sir, there is no law to compel any person or organisation to fly the Republic flag and, therefore, it will not be possible for any action to be taken against U.M.N.O. Singapore for refusing to fly the Republic flag.

The Member for Sembawang has also raised the question of the possibility of establishing a retarded children's hospital. Sir, it is the policy of the Ministry to encourage voluntary efforts. The Retarded Children's Society is doing good work in this respect for retarded children. On the medical side, these children are looked after by the General Hospital and the St. Andrew's Hospital. For the moment, the Ministry has no plan to establish such a hospital.

On the question raised by the Member for Delta - it is the same one which she raised in a question to this House - that is the establishment of a Women's Institute, I did then say that the matter was being looked into by my Ministry. It is now proposed to set up a Committee to study the matter and make recommendations to the Government. I hope that the lady Members of this House, including the Member who has raised this matter, will agree to sit on this Committee and assist my Ministry in this matter.

Two questions were raised by the Member for Moulmein. One was about the Old People's Home. She said that the old people there complained that they are not being served with Malay or Indian food. I would like to tell her that the food in the Home for the Aged and other welfare homes is being prepared in a central kitchen. Unfortunately, there are no Indian or Malay cooks. The number of Indians and Malays in the Home for the Aged is very small. However, Sir, I will look into this matter and see whether there is any possibility of preparing Malay and Indian food in the central kitchen.

On the question of newspapers, it is the same thing. There are few Malays and Indians in the Home for the Aged. So I do not think that the Home should provide newspapers for the sake of one or two people. However, I am prepared to look into this matter also.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Just now the Minister has promised that a Committee will be set up to consider the establishment of a Women's Institute. On behalf of all women in Singapore, I thank him for his very good gift before Christmas!

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, can the Minister give me an assurance that the social welfare allowances of those living in the homes of relatives or neighbours will not be cut?

Is it the intention of the Minister to accept my suggestion that the U.M.N.O. flag be prohibited from being flown on U.M.N.O. House or other places until a decision is taken by the Registrar of Societies? This question has not been answered.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: On the first question, Sir, if a person is given board and lodging, the Social Welfare Department provides him with a certain amount of money which is termed "pocket money". He is not provided with the full amount because he is given board and lodging. It depends on the circumstances. I know of a case of a woman who is provided with food and shelter by her relatives and, in addition, receives $16 per month as pocket money.

On the second question, Sir, I have already said that there is no law to prevent U.M.N.O. from flying the Republic of Singapore flag on its building.

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not asking a question about U.M.N.O. flying the Singapore flag. My question is this, will the Government prohibit U.M.N.O. from displaying the U.M.N.O. flag in Singapore until the amendments to U.M.N.O.'s Constitution are approved by the Registrar of Societies?

Inche Othman Bin Wok: I am afraid we cannot do that, Sir.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $1,205,400 for Head 1001 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1002 -

The following amendments stood in the name of Mr S. V. Lingam -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1221.

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1269.

The Chairman: Mr Lingam is not present.

Mr P. Govindaswamy (Anson): (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2251.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I be allowed to speak on amendments(4)* and (5)+ together?

• Amendment (4) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2260.

• Amendment (5) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reducedby $10 in respect of subhead 2261.

The Chairman: Yes, you may do so.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, the sum allocated for subhead 2251 is for Acquisition of Programmes. Another sum allocated for subhead 2260 is for Programme Production - Expenses. The sum allocated for subhead 2261 is for Programme Production - Fees. These three sub-heads are more or less the same. What I want to know is why do we not produce the same programmes in our own country? The expenses could then be reduced and our economic situation would be improved. Can the Minister inform us whether that is possible?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture (Mr Fong Sip Chee): Mr Speaker, Sir, since the Member for Anson has expressed his desire to deal with the three subheads together, I will begin by enlightening him on the purpose of the sums allocated for these three subheads.

Sir, the provision of $1,150,000 for subhead 2251 involves the acquisition of programmes meant for T.V. only. This amount is to cover the hire of films, telerecording and the purchase of rights of locally-produced programmes and films. The estimate for 1966 was $1 million. The increase of $150,000 for 1967 is to provide for more hours of transmission next year.

The provision of $300,000 for subhead 2260 is for Programme Production Expenses. Members of the House will note that there is an increase of $50,000 for 1967 and this is due to the following reasons:

(1) The anticipated increase in the hours of production, and

(2) The use of four studios in Television Centre as against one temporary studio which is now demolished in the old Broadcasting House. The increase in the number of studios will naturally increase the number of live productions.

Subhead 2261 is in respect of Programme Production Fees in the sum of $500,000, and this is for payment of fees to artistes. It will take us some time to give a break-down of the increase in payments to individual artistes.

I am grateful to the Member for Anson for his suggestion that we should endeavour to produce more local programmes. In fact, T.V. Singapura under the Ministry of Culture is doing exactly that. In doing so, we have to take several factors into consideration. I will enumerate a few of them for the information of the Member for Anson as well as for the general information of the House.

3.45 p.m.

One of the big difficulties is the scouting for talent which I am sure the Member for Anson will have noticed in some locally-produced programmes. In as much as we wish to improve the standard, we do not find it possible for the time being to do so, as T.V. plays and T.V. acts are still in their infancy in Singapore, and it will take some time for local playwrights and artistes to get acquainted with the T.V. studio. The production technique in a T.V. studio is quite different from that in a normal film studio.

The next problem is markets for our programmes produced. If we can secure a market to sell or to hire out programmes produced by us, it will certainly help in defraying the cost of production. You will appreciate, Mr Speaker, Sir, that it is very difficult to secure a market for our programmes, as some of them are repetitions of programmes already produced in other countries, and when we compare our programmes with theirs, there is quite a wide choice of preference in view of the different tastes of viewers. So we will bear in mind the suggestion by the Member for Anson and will endeavour to produce more local programmes taking into consideration the various difficulties which I have just mentioned.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture has, to some extent, given satisfactory answers to my questions, and I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: I take it that Mr Govindaswamy will not now move *amendments (4) and (5)?

• Amendments (4) and (5) read as follows:

(4) That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2260.

(5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2261.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): That is right. I am not moving.

The following amendment, No. (6) , stood in the name of Mr Tang See Chim -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2297.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (6) , Mr Tang See Chim. He is not here.

The following amendment, No. (7) , stood in the names of Mr Tang See Chim and Mr S. V. Lingam -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2299.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (7) , Mr Tang See Chim and Mr S. V. Lingam. They are not here. Amendment No. (8) +, Mr P. Govindaswamy.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (2) of subhead 243l.+

This item is in respect of Liquors Licensing Board Licences. I wonder why this item comes under the Singapore Conference Hall. Why is it necessary for the Conference Hall to have such a licence?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, the vote concerns the item Liquors Licensing Board Licences in the sum of $720. The reason why we provide this sum of money for the payment of licences issued by the Liquors Licensing Board is that we require a licence for the restaurant at the Singapore Conference Hall for sales of liquor to be issued in the name of the Singapore Conference Hall and not in the name of the restaurant operator. This is because we wish to exercise better control over the restaurant.

There is an existing regulation involving the canteen at the Victoria Theatre, which licence is also issued in the name of the Superintendent, Victoria Theatre, and not the canteen operator.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Government running this restaurant and this liquor establishment?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: No, Mr Speaker. We are not running this restaurant, neither are we selling liquor. This restaurant occupies a space in the Singapore Conference Hall and we rent out this space to the restaurant operator on the basis of tender. We only require that the licence for sales of liquor be issued in the name of the Singapore Conference Hall and not in the name of the restaurant operator. As I have explained, Sir, this is in order to exercise better control over this restaurant.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): We pay the liquor licence but another person derives profit from that licence! Is that the Government's intention? Who pays for the licence and who makes money out of it? That is my question.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, this restaurant operator pays for the licence.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Then I would like to know why this item is shown in the Estimates.

The Chairman: From the Parliamentary Secretary's earlier answer, I think it is here because Government pays the licence fee and because it wants the licence in its name, but the money is recouped from the operator of the restaurant. Is that correct, Mr Fong?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: No, Sir. The Member is asking who pays for the licence now. I say it is the operator who pays for it now. But as from next year we will pay for it.

The Chairman: That cannot be correct, Mr Fong. The 1966 Estimates contains an entry of $720 as well.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, the position now is that the licence is issued to the owner of the restaurant and he pays the licence fee. As I have explained, in order to have better control over the bar and restaurant as from 1967, the Liquors Licensing Board Licence will be in the name of the Superintendent, Singapore Conference Hall. And we pay for the licence, Sir.

Mr Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not understand what is the meaning of this - a licence paid by the Government but on behalf of the restaurant operator! Whether the towkay accepts the money, we do not know. But this I want to know - whether it is utilised for that purpose or is it in the reserve fund?

Mr Lim Cheng Lock (River Valley): Mr Speaker, Sir, may I inquire whether this is a new Government policy in regard to the issue of liquor licences in Government premises?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, the space is rented out to the restaurant at a monthly rental of $1,200, which is inclusive of water and other service charges. We consider this to be on the very cheap side, taking into consideration the surrounding area. And we are looking into the matter with a view to increasing the rental.

With regard to the query by the Member for River Valley, I am not in a position to say whether it is the policy of the Government to have a licence for the sale of liquor to be issued in the name of the Government, but the existing practice in the case of the Superintendent, Victoria Theatre, is to issue the liquor licence in his name. This has been in force for several years.

Mr Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not satisfied with the reply. In spite of that, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment, No. (9) , stood in the name of Mr Tang See Chim -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3523.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (9) , Mr Tang See Chim. He is not here.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi (Kampong Kembangan): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $l00.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Inche Rahamat bin Kenap, Mr S. V. Lingam, Inche Mahmud Awang and Mr Sim Boon Woo.)

Mr Speaker, the Dewan Bahasa has been established some time ago and it has a staff of five - an editor, a research officer, a general clerical officer, a typist and an office boy. What are the duties of these five officers of the Dewan Bahasa? What progress has been achieved? What efforts are being made, apart from the national language campaign, to popularise the use of the national language?

Mr Speaker, I believe that the aim of television, apart from education and giving information, is to provide entertainment for its viewers who pay $36 for a licence a year. Whenever viewers see a programme on T.V. Singapura, there are always interruptions by advertisements. I know that advertisements provide a lot of revenue to the Ministry to help defray the cost of television. But the Ministry should not forget that T.V. viewers like good programmes, and interruptions by advertisements in the middle of a programme will not make them happy, because they have got to take out a licence every year. I suggest that these advertisements be screened before or after a programme.

One more point about T.V. programmes, Mr Speaker, is that there is also a programme on golf which lasts about one hour. Surely we do not have many golfers and golf enthusiasts. I do not know if the Minister himself plays golf, but I know a number of Ministers, including the Minister for Finance, who play golf. I believe there are more football, badminton, sepak raga, even a-go-go enthusiasts among our people. But we have very few football films shown on T.V. T.V. Singapura should have more programmes on football, sepak raga, etc, for the enthusiasts. Singapore is now known throughout the world as an orchid-growing country and the number of people who grow orchids is increasing day by day. Therefore, we should have a programme on orchid-growing on T.V.

4.00 p.m.

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap: (In Malay): As a young and independent nation, we feel it is necessary to look after our security and prosperity so that every citizen will get the benefit of independence and freedom given by the Government. Co-operation between one another is necessary, especially in the local Press. The Press can contribute constructively to our multi-racial society. But we must beware of foreign political publications which can damage our solidarity. Also the publications of a foreign Government, which is carrying out propaganda activities, are very much at large in our country. I feel it is necessary to mention here the names of these publications. They are the Malaya Merdeka and Suara Malaysia issued by the Malaysian Government. The aim of these two papers is to influence and confuse the people of Singapore, particularly among the Malays. This is entirely for the political benefit of their country. We have not forgotten how the Malaysian Government banned the Petir from Singapore and also the Chermin issued by the Ministry of Culture. They have been banned from circulation in Malaysia. If the people of Singapore can be treated in such a manner by the Malaysian Government, is that not a challenge to the Singapore Government? It is because too much democracy is given by the Government of Singapore that the Malaya Merdeka is circulating freely in Singapore. A foreign Government can take advantage of us for the benefit of their own country. As this may cause racial conflict between the various communities, I suggest that the Government should ban these two papers from circulating in Singapore.

As a multi-racial nation, Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe Television Singapura should be improved to adjust itself to such a policy. Malay programmes are very few. Apart from the Pak Awang Temberang show, there is no other Malay programme which can be considered constructive. As we are now a fast developing nation, T.V. programmes should be constructive. For example, there should be dramas which could be an example to our society.

Mr Speaker, in the news coverage by Radio Singapore and Television Singapura, apart from giving local news, there is also a wide range of foreign news, including Malaysian news. In this way, Radio Singapore and Television Singapura have played an important role. They are making a contribution to Malaysia by making it known to foreign countries. The Malaysian Government should thank the Ministry of Culture of Singapore for announcing Malaysian news. This shows that Singapore is very compromising in its attitude and does not consider Malaysia and its neighbours as its enemies. But the Malaysian Government does not appreciate it. Radio and Television Malaysia have never broadcast Singapore news. They prefer to broadcast news from other countries.

Inche Mahmud Awang (Kampong Kapor) rose ---

The Chairman: Before you proceed, Inche Mahmud, would the Minister like to answer specific inquiries and then I will call the other speakers, or would you like to answer all the speakers together?

The Minister of State for Culture (Mr Lee Khoon Choy): Sir, I would like to answer all of them together.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, I would like to speak on the National Library. This Library was erected with air-conditioning supplied. I would like to know why, although the building was erected with air-conditioning facilities, the air-conditioners are not working in several places. In some places, there is no air-conditioning at all. In other places, it is not cold enough. The Library needs cool air, because when people read to acquire more knowledge, they need a cool temperature. The officers in this Library work in warm surroundings, and when they have a meeting it is held in a warm place. At times they have to open the windows and use fans. In the places where children and adults read, the air-conditioners are not as satisfactory as what we have here now. I feel that it would be better if the air-conditioning in this Library is improved, so that with improved air-conditioning, the minds of the readers in the Library will be refreshed.

The Chairman: Mr Lingam - he is not here. Mr Sim Boon Woo is not here. Mr Rodrigues.

Mr Bernard Rodrigues (Telok Blangah): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to query the Minister for Culture whether he is in receipt of a copy of a letter addressed to the Editor of the Straits Times from the Singapore National Union of Journalists. It appears that Mr D. R. H. Brown, Secretary of the Singapore Turf Club, made certain statements on 12th December about profits from the first Singapore Sweep, which statements he clarified in the Straits Times on the following day. In his so-called clarification, he blamed a Straits Times reporter for an error which was, according to the S.N.U.J., Mr Brown's. The Straits Times, which has contracted to print the Singapore sweep tickets, has not published the S.N.U.J.'s letter, even though Mr Brown's so-called clarification statement has damaged the reputation of a local journalist. Will the Minister give this House an assurance that Press and public relations for the Singapore sweep will be properly handled in future by the Turf Club?

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to touch on cultural activities under this vote. Generally speaking, cultural activities have flourished in this country, in spite of the fact that there have also been unhealthy cultural activities which have influenced our people adversely, as I mentioned on 5th December in this House. But the Ministry of Culture's efforts in the promotion of healthy cultural activities cannot be denied. Moreover, the efforts of our civic organisations to promote healthy culture should also be commended. There have been achievements and manifestations of our cultural activities. For instance, recently a Hong Kong All-Star troupe of singing artistes visited Singapore. There was also a Japanese cultural mission to Singapore recently.

[Mr Lim Cheng Lock in the Chair]

4.10 p.m.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: Locally, there have also been a number of concerts, choirs, dramas and other healthy cultural activities. Undoubtedly the performance given by foreign as well as local organisations will help to promote the interchange of cultures in South-East Asia and enrich our cultural life.

Sir, another point which needs to be mentioned is that the Ministry of Culture some time ago organised a mission which performed in Seremban, Malacca, and elsewhere in West Malaysia. That was part of our cultural activities. Cultural magazines and publications have also published those items. Let me ---

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, I was the Secretary to that mission. But in order to refresh my memory, could the Member please quote the name and date of the publication?

The Chairman (Mr Lim Cheng Lock): Mr Teong, could you?

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): At the moment, I do not have the exact date of the magazine, but it was something like a souvenir magazine of the mission. When I have the opportunity in future, I will certainly give him the information.

On the first point, about the promotion of Malaysian culture, I will change it to the promotion of Singapore culture. That is the main emphasis. The second point is the promotion of the interchange of the various cultures. Thirdly, the promotion of a healthy culture. The next point is the promotion of a sense of loyalty, patriotism and national consciousness among those taking part in cultural activities in order to build our Singapore - at that time they used Malaysia; I think I should use Singapore now - and the promotion of the cultural activities of our civic organisations.

Sir, I feel that these four objectives enumerated in the magazine should also be encouraged. They are still valid because we should know our task and objectives at the present juncture in relation to cultural activities. They are, firstly, to promote healthy cultural activities; secondly, to promote the interchange of the cultures of the various races; thirdly, to promote goodwill and understanding among the various races; fourthly, to promote an understanding of cultural activities and to encourage people to devote themselves to cultural activities and nation-building; fifthly, to raise the standard of cultural activities, be they singing, exhibitions, concerts, dramas or playwriting, etc.

4.15 p.m.

The contents should be in the nature of promoting love and patriotism towards one's country and instilling in the minds of the people a sense of national consciousness and loyalty to our country. Therefore, the one important task facing the Ministry of Culture is to formulate a complete policy on culture and cultural activities, to promote healthy cultural activities, and to help various civic and cultural organisations in this respect. It should also curb all unhealthy and pornographic cultural activities which are poisonous and will endanger our nation-building.

Sir, our industrialisation and economic progress has been described as very encouraging. I can also mention housing construction. On this I should congratulate the Minister concerned. These achievements have contributed greatly to our national well-being. I also hope that cultural activities under the guidance of our Ministers can also flourish and bring us a step further to be more culture conscious so that we can show our culture throughout the world.

I will now congratulate the Ministry of Culture on its efforts, achievements and work in the promotion of the national language during the Language Month, which has also received the warm support of the people. But one matter for regret is that certain political parties such as U.M.N.O., the Barisan Sosialis and the Alliance have adopted an attitude of indifference to this campaign. This has enabled the people to see through them. Their so-called support for the National Language campaign is entirely a deception trying to fool the people.

Finally, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister to give an answer to what I raised on the 5th of this month when I was making an adjournment speech touching on various points on cultural activities and cultural construction.

Mrs Devan Nair: (In Tamil): Sir, we hear pop and undesirable songs in the programmes of T.V. Singapura in all languages. The children are very much attracted to them, and because of that, they tend to go the wrong way. Does the Minister intend to change this attitude? If not, can he look into that in future?

Secondly, there are undesirable scenes in pictures featuring James Bond. These scenes also attract young people and spoil them. Why do we not ban such pictures? Even if we do not ban them, we can censor the undesirable scenes. I hope the Minister for Culture and Social Affairs will take action on this.

Thirdly, when there are good programmes on T.V. Singapura, these are stopped when they reach the exciting parts, and advertisements are shown. People who are interested in the programmes are disgusted because of this. As a result, the advertisements do not get into their minds. So the aims of the advertisements are lost. Can the Minister stop such advertisements which do not benefit anyone?

Fourthly, as far as the programmes are concerned, they should be of a good standard. It is very important. In addition to that, they should be heard by the public properly. In this connection, I wish to touch on Tamil programmes. I do not want to touch on the standard of Tamil programmes over the radio. They are not closely listened to by the people. Recently, the radio wave-length was changed for Tamil programmes. Whatever changes are brought about by the Government should be for the better. But in this .case, it has produced the reverse effect. There are a lot of disturbances in the broadcasts. At times we can hear everything except Tamil programmes over this wave-length. Can this pitiful situation be improved? Can the Minister for Culture take action?

Mr Lim Guan Hoo (Bukit Merah): (In Mandarin): Sir, I will avail myself of this opportunity to give some comments as well as ask some queries. First of all, let me say that my views may not be the same as those of the Members who have already spoken. For instance, the Member for Kampong Kembangan has requested various popular sports to be introduced in T.V. pictures instead of golf and has made several suggestions. These suggestions are tantamount to requesting the introduction into films of animals other than rare wild animal life, such as tigers and lions. Generally speaking, the vote for the whole of the Culture Ministry is still very small. I feel that the Government has not allotted sufficient funds to it to carry out cultural activities, although the Minister has explained in a roundabout-way that the other Ministries have been allotted funds for the carrying out of activities relevant to culture. Some time ago I read certain news items about our Government's intention to organise an Afro-Asian cultural festival. But there is no such vote under this Ministry. Also the expenditure as allotted at present is not enough to meet other expenses. If there are not enough funds available, how can the Ministry carry out such activities? If the water in the tank is so very shallow, how is the Minister going to swim freely in it? How is he able to make use of the limited funds to carry out cultural activities? That is one query I would like him to answer.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, the Member for Sembawang spoke without guts and I am sorry for that.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I would like the Member for Delta to give some specific examples to substantiate her criticism. Where did I lack the guts when I spoke?

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): He spoke without guts. For instance, he kicked somebody and then he said sorry to that person. That shows he is gutless.

Sir, today we are talking about culture. Everybody knows that culture and art are part and parcel of the spiritual life of the people, especially when Singapore is now a newly-independent country with full sovereignty, and when the thinking and the sense of patriotism of the people need to be fostered in addition to being achieved through education.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

4.26 p.m.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: These objectives are to be achieved both through education and cultural activities. At the present stage of our independence, if we do not have good cultural programmes which can lead the people to march forward in the right direction, but allow them to have filthy ideas and thoughts emanating from evil and yellow culture, then it would be detrimental to their well-being and they would not be encouraged to seek advancement and progress. Without healthy cultural programmes, the people will not be able to march forward to progress. On the other hand, they will be indulging themselves in filthy, yellow and cheap entertainment. Therefore, we feel that at this juncture it is necessary for us to educate the people and also carry out cultural activities to guide them towards nation-building, and in this respect the Ministry of Culture has a great role to play. We have to unite the various races together into one community and the cultures of the various races into one national culture. But when we look around we find that filthy cultures and activities outnumber healthy cultural activities. Everywhere in the State we can find yellow culture in the form of books, magazines, mosquito newspapers, advertisements, etc., which are rampant.

4.30 p.m.

There are also a great number of pornographic publications. The Ministry has also taken action against such publications, but is this tanta-mount to the complete eradication of yellow and filthy cultural activities? The answer is `No'. The sex and yellow culture mongers are capable of infiltrating into every nook and corner of our society. In the past, our anti-yellow culture campaign was carried out vigorously. But due to subsequent relaxation, the yellow culture mongers have again raised their heads. If we look at certain advertisements in the newspapers or the walls of lavatories, we will see vulgar and filthy pictures and drawings which are the work of corrupted minds.

We all know that half of our present population consist of youths. The type of education that they receive at their formative age is very important. At such an age, they are susceptible and easily influenced, and if they are subject to the evil influence of yellow culture, what will be their future and what will become of our country? Members of Parliament have stressed the seriousness of this problem and have put forward suggestions to the Minister. But what do we get in return? The Minister turns a deaf ear to our suggestions which have been made in all earnestness.

What do we see when we look at advertisements in the newspapers? They try to induce people to go for abortion and encourage them to go and see filthy pictures. Such advertisements and publications will cause our youths to deteriorate in their moral standards. How can we then build up our country with the contribution and dedication of youths who have swallowed the poison from filthy publications'? How can we expect them to fulfil their role in nation-building? Today we are short of spiritual food and it is the sacred task of the Ministry of Culture to cater for the spiritual needs of the people and to promote healthy cultural activities, such as the establishment of a Cultural Advisory Council, as suggested by the Member for Sembawang, to enable representatives of various sections of the people to contribute their ideas for the promotion of healthy culture, so that our youths will have cleaner and healthier minds.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to clarify one point.

The Member for Delta said that I spoke without guts. I cannot remember when I spoke like that. I would like to say that I have been quite fair in my remarks. If the Ministry of Culture has done excellent work in the promotion of healthy culture, and if any organisation has done anything worthy in the cultural field, of course, I will praise them.

I would like the Member to clarify her statement that I spoke without guts.

I would also like the Minister to reply to the ten suggestions made by me on 5th December.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, many Members have spoken and I too would like to add a few words.

We have been talking at length about culture for the last three years. The culture that one sees in Singapore comes mostly from the West. We have to look into the possibility of altering it to our own use. This is what the Minister should do. We go on talking about culture instead of adapting Western culture to our own needs.

The Member for Delta spoke of activities which hamper the advancement of our youngsters. I suggest that we should appoint a Committee to look into the possibility of leading our youths on the proper path in order to make them good citizens in the future. Most of the cultural material imported into Singapore has been modified to our own purpose. Although textiles are cheap, clothes are getting shorter and shorter, so much so that the human body is being revealed more and more. If this goes on and we cannot adapt imported cultural modes to our own use, our people will look different. As a democratic country, we cannot stop these activities, but we must try to adapt them to our own use.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, frankly I do not see how this has anything to do with culture. It does not come within the purview of the Ministry of Culture. It is a police matter.

The Chairman: No, Mr Fong. I am sure that the tendencies of youths are matters for the Ministry of Culture.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: On a point of order, Sir. There is no law to stipulate how men and women should dress themselves.

The Chairman: Mr Fong, the Member is within the rules ---

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, I am just mentioning whether it is not possible ---

The Chairman: Let me deal with the point of order, please. I think Mr Govindaswamy is perfectly in order. If what he says carries weight, then you go along with him and prohibit short skirts! Mr Govindaswamy.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): The Parliamentary Secretary is losing his temper. I am not attacking him. I am only trying to see how the morals and behaviour of the people can be improved. I know that there are certain things which we cannot do, but I am only suggesting that we should look into the possibility of setting up a Committee to study the matter. I realise that Singapore is a democratic country and that there is a limit to what we can do, but we must look into the possibility of seeing what can be done and the manner in which it can be carried out.

Take the case of the students. If we can instil good habits in them when they are young, they will not easily change these habits. This is what I am suggesting. We only talk about culture, but we are not looking into the possibility of adapting foreign culture to our own conditions. We have accepted four different languages as our official languages. So we must see what plays and dramas can be introduced in these languages. In the same way, we must also see how we can adapt imported cultural activities for our own benefit. It is no use turning round and asking us how to do it. We have given you the power and the salary, and it is up to you to look into the possibility of adapting these activities for the benefit of the people. When we talk about culture, we must think seriously and see how we can adapt foreign cultural activities for our own benefit. I ask the Ministry to look into the various means of achieving this end. But you must not ignore whatever Members speak. You must listen to us and look into the possibility of setting up a committee to study the matter. You must. consider that what we are saying is proper and appropriate so that by the next Budget sittings, you will have been able to set up such a committee, instead of perennially talking about culture and cultural activities.

The next subject I wish to speak on is Radio and T.V. which was also touched on by the Member for Moulmein. Yesterday, a nice film was shown on T.V. for 55 minutes, but 10 to 15 minutes of this period was taken up by advertisements which interrupted the film show. I agree that we must get revenue from advertisements on T.V. In the theatre, advertisements are put on at the beginning and during the interval of the film show. Why cannot the same thing be done on T.V.? Any number of advertisements can be shown at the beginning and at the end of a picture show, but they should not appear time and again during a picture show.

There have been a lot of complaints about the wave-length used for Tamil programmes. The reception for programmes in English, Chinese and Malay is very clear, but not for Indian programmes, because this particular wave-length is apparently a weak one. Perhaps the authorities think that nobody will complain. The people tune in to this particular wave-length, but they do not get any response and they are helpless to complain. The listeners to Tamil programmes also pay the same licence fees as those listening to other programmes. I suggest that this wavelength should be changed. In this respect, I support the Member for Moulmein.

I would also like to touch on what the Member for Sembawang said. I repeat that we must have an advisory committee to look into matters concerning culture instead of continually talking about them. Therefore, I repeat that the Minister should form such a committee.

4.45 p.m.

Mr Lim Guan Hoo: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I feel that when we talk about the problems of culture, we must have a principle to follow in the first instance. Instead of talking about culture negatively, we must talk about it positively and constructively. When we talk about yellow culture and pornography on the one hand, we must, on the other hand, realise that there is a principle behind culture. Negative measures to wipe out yellow culture or contain it are useless. We must take positive steps to promote healthy cultural activities in all ways so that when yellow culture is beating a retreat, the vacuum will then be filled with healthy culture.

Let us now look at what the Government is doing in respect of the vote to be given to the Ministry of Culture. I feel that the vote is too little. Whatever explanation is given, I feel that when these Estimates are framed, certain defects will be noticed because the Budget is unable to show us the various types of cultural activities that will be carried out. Although the Minister for Finance has said that a lot of money has been spent on cultural activities, the expenditure is not broken down and analysed for discussion in the Committee of Supply. So I hope that in future all expenditure in respect of cultural activities will be listed in the Estimates so that when we are in Committee of Supply we are able to go through this matter item by item. That is my view.

Mr Lee Khoon Choy: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is very good to have such an enthusiastic debate on the development of culture. I will deal first with the comments made by the Member for Kampong Kembangan. The first point he has raised is about the Dewan Bahasa and what its achievements are. It is difficult to give full details of its achievements, but the fact that the national language is popular in the City State, where 75 per cent of the population are Chinese, is enough to show that at least the Dewan Bahasa is doing its best to encourage the study of the national language. We are now considering expanding this organisation into a Research Institute into Languages and Culture. When this is done, it will not only deal with publications but also research into the various languages and cultures of our people.

On T.V. advertisements, the Member was not the only one to raise it. Of course, to the viewers it may be annoying to see an advertisement popping out in between very exciting moments of a film. But from the business man's point of view, that is exactly the time you hope to catch the attention of the viewers. Anyway, as we have explained many times, we have to include advertisements to help defray the expenses of running the radio and T.V. From radio and T.V. alone in 1966 we got $4,629,000, and from this money we were able to get better programmes for T.V. and radio. By next year we may get more than $5 million from advertisements. I can assure you, Sir, that much of the money received will be used to acquire better quality films as well as programmes for our viewers.

The Member for Kampong Kembangan has also mentioned about programmes for golf players, and asked why we should have them. I have to enlighten him by saying that the programme on golf and bowling is introduced on T.V. and over the radio to cater for a cross-section of our viewers. We must not forget that we are a multi-racial, multi-cultural, as well as a multi-religious population, and we have to give a chance to every section. There are only three films on bowling. Whenever programmes on sport are included, the popularity of the sport is taken into consideration. For instance, there have been films on the World Cup soccer matches, wrestling, boxing, etc., and whenever possible good matches of local sport, such as soccer, badminton, and sepak raga are covered.

With regard to orchid-growing, sometime back in the series of Woman's World, there were talks on orchids: for example, how to recognise the different species, and how they are grafted. Also the production of a programme on orchids will take time. However, we will look into the suggestions put forward by the Member for Kampong Kembangan and other Members.

The Member for Geylang Serai raised the question of foreign publications, and he specifically mentioned Suara Malaysia and Merdeka. He advocated their banning. The Singapore Government is aware of these publications. We are adopting a very generous attitude towards these publications. We believe in an open society and we are not afraid to allow publications like those mentioned by the Member to compete in the market-place of ideas and thoughts in our society. We are sure that our people will be able to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong. However, we also hope that the same spirit will be reciprocated from across the Causeway. I assure the Member for Geylang Serai that action has already been taken on his suggestion by the Singapore High Commission in Kuala Lumpur.

About Malay films and films in general, it is a question of staff. We are very short of staff who are able to produce programmes, particularly in the national language. There is only one Malay producer for the radio, and he is now mobilised into the Army. For television, we have three producers. With the removal to the new Television Centre, we have two big and two small studios as compared with one temporary studio in the old Broadcasting House. With these facilities and with more staff, we hope to be able to improve the production of Malay programmes.

As for news from Radio Malaysia and T.V. Malaysia, I think that those who have been listening to the news from T.V. Malaysia will agree that, in fact, there is no news at all about Singapore. But this is beyond our control. It does not mean that we have to follow the same narrow-minded policy of not letting our viewers know what is happening in this part of the world, including Malaysia.

The Member for Kampong Kapor has mentioned about air-conditioning the National Library. In fact, this suggestion has been put forward by us since 1962. But owing to the high recurrent cost, the matter has to he shelved. Everybody will welcome more comfort in the National Library, not only for workers but for children and other sections of the population. But we have to bear in mind the financial burden of the Government. On the other hand, comparatively speaking, the standard of living in Singapore can be considered to he very high: if not the highest, then the second highest in this part of the world. And at this time of nation-building, we should not make the people too comfortable, or they will become too soft, such as going to the National Library to read in an air-conditioned room. If this is the type of population we are producing, I do not think our nation can survive very long.

Mr Speaker, Sir, coming to the point raised by the Member for Telok Blangah on public relations between the Secretary of the Singapore Turf Club and the Straits Times, I am afraid the relationship between the Secretary of the S.T.C. and the reporters of the Straits Times is not our concern. We have not received a copy of the complaint, but if we receive it, we will look into it, But I am afraid the Ministry of Culture cannot interfere too much in the relationship between other people and the Press.

Coming to the comments by other Members, generally speaking, the Member for Sembawang wanted me to reply to his ten points, and the Member for Moulmein spoke about James Bond and other matters. I think I will cover all their points at one time. Mr Speaker, Sir, it is good to hear Members - for instance, the Member for Bukit Merah - asking for more funds to be allocated to the Ministry of Culture for the promotion of culture. Normally a Ministry is criticised for over-spending or wasting public funds. Any Ministry would, of course, welcome more funds, because with more money you can have more results.

5.00 p.m.

However, we have to appreciate that there is such a thing as priority in the allocation of Government funds. This Government has to look after the rice bowl of the people, housing, education, health, welfare and the rest. Without the basic requirements - a full stomach, a roof over one's head, good health, a basic education - one will not have much time or energy to participate in cultural activities. That is why the Government has to pay more attention to these basic requirements first. Notwithstanding the small sum of money available for the promotion of culture, the Ministry has done its best to encourage healthy cultural activities and to promote a cultural interchange in our multi-racial society.

Since 1959, regular performances of Aneka Ragam Rakyat - the people's concert - in the city as well as the rural areas have brought about a better understanding and appreciation of our multi-racial cultures. In 1963 we even went one step further by organising the South-East Asia Cultural Festival which, to a certain extent, helped to promote better cultural understanding among the various people of this region. The promotion of culture and the task of shaping a national culture out of a diversity of cultures is not the sole responsibility of a Ministry, in a democratic society like ours, it is the people - when we say the people, we mean the multi-racial, multi-religious, and multi-cultural citizens o Singapore and in particular the artistes - who can shape the national destiny of our nation. The function of Government is just to guide them, to give them encouragement, morally if not financially. In this respect, cultural organisations have since 1959 responded very well to our call for a healthy culture and for a cultural interchange. The marked increase in the number of cultural performances, as the Member for Sembawang has agreed and has also mentioned, exhibitions and plays performed during this period compared to-those of the pre-P.A.P, days speak for themselves. Although there was vitality in the cultural field in the past few years, I must say, however, that there was a lack of concerted effort in the field of creative art; I mean the meeting of minds among the leaders of different cultural streams to study the problem of cultural integration and the development of a national culture. Most of the performances, whether in the field of music, the dance or drama, were still foreign-inspired and did not reflect local conditions, the spirit and aspirations of our own people. Although there were encouraging attempts at local composition, there was no concerted and organised effort. This aspect of our cultural development was hampered by the unsettled and unstable political situation which prevailed during the two-year "romance" of one but now two nations. When the life or death of a nation and its people looms over the political horizon, very little time and energy can be spared on the promotion of culture or the finer side of life. Now that there is better political stability, we can devote more time and energy to the cultural aspect of our national life.

In 1967 we will enter a new phase in cultural development. Next year the Arts Council will be formed to assist in the promotion of the creative arts, such as music, the dance, drama, painting and sculpture. The Arts Council will comprise cultural experts and leaders from the four cultural streams. The establishment of this Arts Council, we hope, will capture the imagination and satisfy some of the aspirations of our people. The Council will help to tap the cultural resources and cultural talents of our young nation for the purpose of nation-building.

The Chairman: We are approaching guillotine time. You have about three minutes more, Mr Lee.

Mr Lee Khoon Choy: National construction is not only confined to providing housing, education and jobs for our people. We have also to look after the spirit of the people. We have inherited in a multi-racial and multi-cultural nation, the cultural heritages of four great civilisations -Malay, Indian, Chinese and European. But as a nation and a people, we should not live in separate cultural compartments forever. Out of the four cultural streams we should try to mould something characteristic of our nation. Our music, dancing, drama, painting and other forms of art should reflect the spirit and aspirations of our people and our time. This may take time, but a start has to be made. The proposed Arts Council will help to gather forces towards this end. To enable the Council to fulfil this task, the question of promoting a national cultural fund is also being considered. Meanwhile, an interim cultural workshop, comprising prominent local composers, choreographers and artistes, is busily hammering out a programme for next year's music and dance festival. This festival, the first of its kind ever to be sponsored by this Ministry to perform locally, will compose music and dancing depicting the life, history and aspirations of our people and our young but dynamic Republic. We have also several other sub-committees dealing separately with the promotion of drama, art and other subjects. The activities of all these committees will come under the umbrella of the proposed Arts Council. The Government has all along been encouraging the promotion of healthy culture. We have not at any time encouraged yellow culture, if yellow culture means things obscene or vulgar. But it is quite a different thing to restrict the activities of a private individual; for instance, the call to ban. A-Go-Go or asking people to cut their long hair.

The Chairman: Mr Lee, I must ask you to wind up in about half a minute.

Mr Lee Khoon Choy: The question is a question of yardstick. We are against anything that is obscene and vulgar. But we have to emphasise that the right to differ is the essence of democracy. The moment a person or the Government demands the privilege of shaping others to its image, taste, its likes or dislikes, then the whole essence of democracy is gone. Our approach to cultural progress is positive and not negative. We intend to promote culture and accept the challenge put forward by the other side, the so-called yellow culture.

5.10 p.m.

The Chairman: Order.

Inche Mohd. Ariff: (In Malay): I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $14,780,380 for Head 1002 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairman: Perhaps this is a convenient time to suspend.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: I will suspend the sitting now and take the Chair again at 40 minutes after 5.00 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.11 p.m. until 5.40 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.40 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head 1003 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $100.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Tang See Chim.)

Sir, I have two questions to raise under this head. The first question is in connection with those who are getting public assistance. Once they have odd jobs or temporary jobs, at a piece rate or an hourly rate, will their public assistance allowance be reduced?

The second question is, what is the total amount allocated for public assistance, and how much is derived from public donations?

The Chairman: Mr Tang See Chim is not present.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: The present rate of public assistance allowances is based on the means test and takes into consideration any income earned by the recipient. Where the income earned does not exceed a certain figure in certain circumstances, no deduction will be made from the public assistance allowance. The following are the maximum incomes allowed for public assistance recipients in various circumstances. Single person; maximum income allowed per month without reduction is $10 per month. Recipient with one dependant, $15 per month; recipient with not more than four dependants, about $20 per month; recipients with more than five dependants, $25 per month. Thus, in the case of a recipient who has five or more dependants, he will be allowed to earn about $25 per month in any part-time job or odd job without having his public assistance allowance deducted. There may, however, be cases where special considerations apply and where it may be possible to assist the recipients with other assistance outside the ambit of the public assistance scheme. For example, a special grant may be given from the Silver Jubilee Fund which is also being administered by the Social Welfare Department. Every such case, however, will be considered strictly on its merits, and if the Member will refer such cases to me, they will be given due consideration.

On the second point, Sir, the Member wishes to know the amount of money from public donations for public assistance. I am sorry I have not got the figures available, but from last month's figures, the sum of money spent on public assistance is far less than $1 million a month. I think it is slightly over $700,000 a month.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I thank the Minister for his explanation. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $14,012,190 for Head 1003 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

5.45 p.m.

Head 1004 -

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1004 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2010.

Sir, why has so much money been allocated to this subhead? Is there not a way of reducing this expenditure and economising? If not, can reasons be given?

Inche Othman Bin Wok: This provision of $120,000 is intended for payment for water and electricity supplied to all the five fire stations in Singapore and firemen's quarters. Every attempt has been made to cut down this item of expenditure as much as possible. But it has been found that the expenditure has been in the region of some $120,000 yearly. In 1965 the expenditure was $126,000. Figures available up to the end of October this year indicate that $119,000 has already been spent. The Chief Fire Officer has been instructed to keep a close watch on this item of expenditure and to ensure that it does not get out of hand.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): In view of the satisfactory reply, I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $2,819,110 for Head 1004 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1005 -

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1005 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parks and Recreation Department has been in existence since the colonial days. Now there are parks and recreation places which still follow the former policy, but these former policies cannot be followed any more. The places I refer to are playgrounds in which many people gather to watch games or sports, or for the purpose of seeing television. At these places there are swings and seesaws, and accidents could occur. The reason I bring up this point is that the people of the Kampong Kapor Community Centre have been bringing up this matter since 1964, with a view to improving the facilities at the places and doing away with the swings and seesaws, so that accidents can be reduced and the children of these people who watch games, sports or television there will be saved from accidents when playing on the swings and seesaws. When these accidents happen, they could bring about misunderstanding between the parties concerned. So in order to avoid this, the swings and seesaws should be removed entirely.

Inche Othman Bin Wok: Sir, if the swings and seesaws are a source of danger to the public, particularly the children, I will direct the Chief Parks Officer to look into the matter. If there is need for them to be removed from the children's playground near the Kampong Kapor Community Centre, we will move them to other children's playgrounds.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1005 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2011.

In my opinion, this sum is rather excessive. Will the Minister give an explanation?

Inche Othman Bin Wok: Sir, the increase in this item from $132,000 to $230,000 for 1967 is due to: (a) lighting of four new children's playgrounds; (b) payment for electricity and water for the new Civilian Victims Memorial at Beach Road; and (c) payment for electricity and water at the new fountains at Tanglin Circus, Holland Circus, King George V Park, Raffles Place and Empress Place. For item (c) , the payment for electricity and water at new fountains involves a sum of approximately $98,000.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): In view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $1,700,860 for Head 1005 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1007 -

The following amendments stood in the name of Mr S. V. Lingam -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1007be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101.

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1007 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2210.

The Chairman: Mr Lingam is not here.

The sum of $5,203,740 for Head 1007 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1101 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1101 be reduced by $l00.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Chow Chiok Hock, Mr Tang See Chim, Inche Mahmud Awang and Madam Chan Choy Siong.)

Mr Speaker, Sir, we have a Legal Aid Bureau which is meant to give assistance to workers and people who are in need of such aid. Before the establishment of this Bureau, such people if they wanted to seek aid from lawyers in legal matters, had to spend at least several hundred dollars. At present, they need only pay $1 to get legal advice from the Legal Aid Bureau. This is one example of the Government's achievements in helping our people. The achievements of the Legal Aid Bureau have aroused great interest among the people in South-East Asia. Certain legal officers from Hong Kong came to Singapore recently to study the achievements and administration of the Legal Aid Bureau in order to learn from us.

But I have received some complaints from people who seek legal aid. They complain that sometimes the Legal Aid Bureau does not do their work fast enough. Sometimes people have to wait for more than eight months before their complaints or cases can be dealt with. So I would like to ask the Minister whether he is aware of this situation and why this is so. Is it because the Bureau is short-staffed? How many lawyers are serving on this Bureau?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development (Mr Ho Cheng Choon): A point of clarification, Sir. The Legal Aid Bureau is not under the Law Ministry. It is under the Ministry of Social Affairs.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, I was actually turning the pages of the Estimates to try to locate it. It comes under the Ministry of Social Affairs on page 303.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): According to what is shown in the Estimates, it is under the Ministry of Law and National Development. Can you please turn to page 367? The subtitle is Law Division. It is under the Ministry of Law and National Development.

6.00 p.m.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, please look at page 303.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): There is a Law Division under the Ministry of Law and National Development, and it ought to be under this Ministry. That is why I raised the question, if the Legal Aid Bureau is not under the present Ministry, then I will not touch further on it.

The Minister for Law and National Development (Mr E. W. Barker): Mr Speaker, Sir, I think it is reasonable for the Member for Sembawang to be confused. Legal aid deals with the law and he thought that it is under my Ministry. He has said that there are several complaints but he has not given any details. But if he will forward these allegations to me, I will pass them on to my colleague who is in charge of the department and have them looked into.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock (Ulu Pandan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I know that Head 1101 is the Law Division. But can I have your ruling on the subject on which I wish to speak? I wish to move an amendment to Head 1101, but I would like to speak on both the Law Division and the National Development Division.

The Chairman: May I suggest that where your remarks relate to the Law Division, you speak now and on other matters you speak on Head 1108?

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: Could the Minister allow me to speak on both of them, because law and national development are subjects dealt with by the Minister?

The Chairman: They come under the same Minister. But on what aspect of national development do you wish to speak?

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: I wish to speak on rent control which comes under the Law Division.

The Chairman: Yes, but on national development, what particular aspect of the Ministry's work do you wish to speak on?

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: Mr Speaker, Sir, let me speak on the Law Division.

The Chairman: Unfortunately, Mr Tang See Chim, in whose name the amendment is put down to reduce the sum for the whole Head by $100, is not here. So while you are speaking on rent control, I will try to find a subhead on which you can speak if you give me the topic you are interested in.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: I would like to speak in Mandarin, Sir.

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1101 be reduced by $100.*

(* See footnote at cols. 919-20)

Sir, I would like to ask the Minister for Law whether he is aware that certain disputes arise between tenants and developers in respect of rent and whether he intends to amend the present Rent Control Ordinance to deal with the situation, because the Government is at present encouraging the construction of more houses by developers. He should be aware that within the purview of this law, removals have been enforced in cases of disputes between tenants and developers. The developers are selling houses at higher prices, and so the tenants want a higher compensation. Can the Ministry institute better measures to deal with the situation? For instance, certain tenants who have been asked to remove have requested several hundreds of thousands of dollars as compensation. In fact, this is only a one-sided picture as presented by a certain section of the people. But, in fact, certain capitalists or land-owners make use of the procedure under the law to demolish houses without the payment of a single cent to the tenants. There is a provision in the Rent Control Ordinance which says that all houses built after 7th September, 1947, will not be subject to rent control and that those built before this date - but not in cases where such houses have been demolished and re-built - will be protected by this Ordinance. So the developers usually resort to the provisions in the Rent Control Ordinance to put the tenants in an awkward position. Of course, there are some cases where the tenants request an excessive amount of money as compensation before they remove. All these things contribute to the higher prices of houses.

Sir, I feel that under the present Rent Control Ordinance, it is not possible to settle these disputes because the tenants who are protected under this Ordinance take advantage of the situation by asking for excessive amounts of compensation before they remove. On the other hand, those who are not protected under the law cannot get even a single cent before they are forced Out of their homes. Therefore, many unpleasant events take place. I feel this is a very grave social problem facing us. I do not know whether the Minister for Law can formulate any legislation to prevent such events from taking place. I will go a step further and suggest - this has also been suggested by the Member for Choa Chu Kang that if the Minister could set up an arbitration court on rent and land matters, I feel that the tenants will get proper and adequate compensation. The Review Board can look into rent conciliation and the problems of land resettlement. If the Minister is agreeable to the setting up of such a Board or Committee, a Judge can be asked to be its Chairman and the members can consist of the Commissioner of Lands, a lawyer, an architect, an assessor or a valuer. Such a Board or Committee will be able to resolve disputes between landlords and tenants. When the parties concerned cannot come to a settlement, this Board or Committee should be the final Tribunal of Appeal and the parties concerned will have to abide by its decision. Both parties should have the right to be legally represented before the Tribunal and the developer or landlord should meet any expenses for survey of the land. The housing developers should not be allowed to chase out any tenants before a decision is made by the Tribunal or before the land is approved for development by the authorities. I feel that it will be able to speed up development and contribute towards the economic development of Singapore.

On matters relating to national development, I will touch on them later.

The Chairman: The Question is,

"That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1101 be reduced by $100."

Mr Tang See Chim is not here. Inche Mahmud.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to speak on housing. I feel that Head 1108 - National Development Division - has no connection with housing, and that is why my amendment appears under Head 1101.

Mr Speaker, Sir, if applicants apply for one-room fiats, or if they want alternative flats, or if they want flats to be provided earlier, and these applications cannot be met, is there a directive from the Minister or his Parliamentary Secretary that they should be given two-room flats instead? A number of such incidents have been reported to me. A person who needed a one-room unit was given a two-room unit instead. An applicant for an alternative flat was given a two-room unit instead. I feel that this is a wrong procedure.

6.15 p.m.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: On a point of clarification, Sir. The hon. Member for Kampong Kapor is talking about a problem that concerns the Housing Board. This does not come under the Head we are now discussing. Perhaps he can bring this matter up when we come to the Head National Development Division.

The Chairman: I think the Member did explain that he found no Head for housing under National Development. Actually all matters relating to the Housing Board should properly come under the vote for Subsidy to Housing and Development Board in the Ministry of Finance. I do not want to shut out discussion, but Ministers have come prepared to meet questions on certain departments, and it will be difficult for them to answer matters not within their province for which they are not prepared for today's debate.

So, Inche Mahmud, I am afraid that if you are speaking on housing, then very reluctantly I will have to rule you out of order.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): May I relate the matter I wish to speak under Head 1101 to the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Law and National Development?

The Chairman: I think the Minister only gives general directions to the Housing Board and he can also request information from them. But since the Government is not asking for any money under this Head to pay to the Housing Board, I am afraid I must rule you out of order, Inche Mahmud. In fact, I seem to recall that at the last sitting, or the one before where the vote for Subsidy to Housing and Development Board was part of the Estimates, Members did speak on the Housing Board and the Minister for Finance did answer the queries. Perhaps you could take your matter up-under some other device at a later date. Mahmud Awang.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I merely wish to know whether or not I can relate this matter to the pay of the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary responsible for the Housing and Development Board.

The Chairman: I am afraid not, because the Minister is not answerable for the Board. He can only give them general directions under the Ordinance and he can also ask them to furnish information, but he is not responsible for the day-to-day administration or routine matters like allocation and size of flats. This should properly have come under the vote for Subsidy to Housing and Development Board. In other words, even if you succeed in your vote here, the Minister will be unaffected because be is not asking for any money for the Housing Board.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): That being the case, Mr Speaker, Sir, I will not pursue the matter further.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Ulu Pandan has referred to disputes between landlords and tenants. He has referred to the Control of Rent Ordinance which protects tenants who occupy buildings built before the 7th day of September, 1947, and which does not protect tenants who occupy buildings built after that date.

Mr Speaker, Sir, Members of this House will remember that when this Government first came to power on the 31st of May. 1959, two provisions of the Control of Rent Ordinance were suspended, namely, section 15 (1) (i) and section 15 (1) (k) . Section 15 (1) (i) dealt with cases where the premises consist in whole or in part of a building or buildings of a temporary character, and the site thereof is required by the landlord for the erection of a building or buildings of a permanent character for which plans have been approved by the local authority; or the site thereof is required by the landlord for any purpose which forms an essential part of any building plan or project of a permanent character for which plans have been approved by the local authority. The next paragraph (k) dealt with cases where the landlord of any premises intends to demolish the premises or any part thereof for the purpose of rebuilding on the site or part thereof, and the Court is satisfied that such demolition is necessary in the interests of public health or town improvement either by reason of the condition of the building or otherwise.

Mr Speaker, Sir, if I may repeat myself, both paragraphs (i) and (k) have been suspended. I have received many a representation from building developers saying that it is time for this suspension to be lifted and to make these two paragraphs law again. I have also received representations from developers suggesting that the Control of Rent Ordinance should be limited in its operation to certain specific areas in the city, namely, the town area. On the other hand, as the Member for Ulu Pandan has pointed out, where a tenant is not protected by the Control of Rent Ordinance, the landlord can evict him without any compensation. This is one end of the stick. The other is where the tenant is protected by the Control of Rent Ordinance and holds the landlord to blackmail. I have heard of a case where a tenant occupying a small hut asked for compensation to the tune of $200,000 from the building developer who, of course, was not willing to pay that sum. The net result is that we are at the moment considering the implications of the Control of Rent Ordinance. We are also considering the setting up of a tribunal to look into the question of providing adequate compensation for tenants or squatters who are evicted whether or not the premises are controlled premises or uncontrolled premises. Mr Speaker, Sir, that deals with the Member for Ulu Pandan.

The Member for Kampong Kapor was a little worried about two-room flats being offered to people who ask for one-room flats. You have ruled him out of order, Mr Speaker, but with your permission I would like to say a few words in reply.

The Chairman: Mr Barker, since I have ruled the Member out of order, I will have to rule you out of order as well if you speak on it.

Mr Barker: Very well.

The Chairman: But I have just discovered that the Member may perhaps be able to discuss this tomorrow under Head 40 subhead 103 - Loans to Housing and Development Board.

Madam Chan, you were not here when I called you earlier, but do you wish to speak on this Head 1101?

Madam Chan Choy Siong: I am not speaking.

Mr Lim Guan Hoo: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, on the estimates for the Ministry of Law and National Development which is under discussion now, I would like to take the opportunity to ask a few questions of the Minister. Singapore is at the present moment practising parliamentary democracy. Our nation is run on this system, and so the Ministry of Law is responsible for the satisfactory implementation of the democratic system. Not very long ago certain anti-national elements tried to undermine our democratic system in Singapore. But I do not know whether the Minister for Law has made any Ministerial statement to explain the spirit in which Singapore is building its own nation. This is, of course, regrettable. I also know that in taking action against the anti-national elements, our Minister of Defence is directly responsible. I appreciate this fact. So I cannot blame the Minister for Law too much for not explaining the legal aspects of the constitutional position under a democratic system. But at least I believe that within the ambit of the law we can take legislative action to allow our own people to show their love for the nation.

We all know that we have a national anthem in Singapore. When it is played in some cinemas, for example, it is encouraging to note that many spectators of their own accord stand at attention. But there are still some who refuse to stand at attention when it is played. Worst of all, some anti-national elements do not bother to stand up at all. When the national anthem is played, influence is not exerted on the anti-national elements to make them respect the anthem. I do not know whether some legislative measures can be taken to see that this is done so that we may have patriotism all round. Of course, I believe that we cannot create patriotism by punishment, but, on the other hand, we must not overlook the fact that we must have some legal restrictions.

The Chairman: I find it difficult to see the connection between your remarks and the Minister for Law. What you have said may have been very appropriate for the Ministry of Culture for having failed to build that body of knowledge and patriotism where the audience in the cinemas stands up when the national anthem is played. But can you relate your remarks to the Ministry of Law and National Development?

Mr Lim Guan Hoo: Perhaps I should have spoken on the vote for the Ministry of Culture. (In Mandarin): However, I withdraw what I have said, but I hope in any case that Government will take measures to legislate this matter.

6.30 p.m.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: (In Mandarin): I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $433,670 for Head 1101 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1104 -

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Lim Cheng Lock -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1104 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

The Chairman: Mr Lim Cheng Lock.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: I am not moving, Sir.

The sum of $76,940 for Head 1104 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1105 -

The Chairman: Mr Lingam, amendment No. (l)*. He is not here. Mr Lingam, amendment No. (2)+ He is not here.

• Amendment No. (1) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1105 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2002.

• Amendment No. (2), which also stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong, reads as follows:

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1105 be reduced by $100.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1105 be reduced by $100.

Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister certain questions under this head. We have noted that the land policy announced in the P.A.P, manifesto has not been resolutely adhered to. In the past, the colonial Government paid more attention to the big landlords. It did not frame any definite equitable policy on land. When they drew up the Master Plan for Singapore, it was so drawn up that the general interest of the public was sacrificed to satisfy the big landlords. This unrealistic Master Plan has been amended from time to time. But what is the extent of the amendments that would make them more beneficial to the general public? At the present moment, it is said that there is not enough land to resettle farmers, or to allocate land for some other construction purposes. But I do not understand why there are still vast areas of vacant land available which are not acquired by the Government for the purposes I have mentioned. Some vacant plots of land are used as play grounds. Some are reserved for unknown purposes. I would like to ask the Minister whether it is possible to make full and better use of the existing vacant lands for construction purposes or to resettle evicted persons.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Delta has referred to the P.A.P. manifesto, and has condemned the colonial Government for supporting big landlords. I wonder whether she believes that the P.A.P. today is supporting big landlords. If she believes this, then I would refer her to the deletion from our Constitution, since the separation, of Article 13 of the Constitution of Malaysia which only provided for acquisition of land with payment of adequate compensation. I may say here that we have deleted Article 13 and we have no intention of restoring it to the Constitution in its present form or in its amended form.

As for the Master Plan, she says again that it was drawn up to satisfy big landlords, that it has been amended from time to time, but that the amendments have been few. I cannot agree that the Master Plan has been drawn up to satisfy the big landlords.

She refers to vast areas of lands which have been somewhat sterilised for development. This is the green belt. She asks why such lands are not acquired for resettlement or put to better use. Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer is simple. In an urban town like Singapore, one must have a green area around. One must reserve land for future development. The Government is not looking five years or ten years ahead. Being a responsible Government, we must look 30 years or 40 years ahead, and when the time comes, we must have land available for the requirements of that age. When the Member for Delta says that the declaration of land as a green belt sterilises the land, this is not completely true. Green belt lands can be used for farming. One cannot put up flats there, but, besides farming, green belt lands can be used, as the Member has pointed out, for recreational purposes or institutional purposes.

To summarise then. Green belt lands serve the following useful purposes. They are used or reserved for essential purposes, such as farming, recreational and institutional purposes. The uses allowed in green belt lands are light type of uses and afford relief in a situation where development is not only urban but intensively urban. Lastly, green belt lands hold scarce lands in reserve for much more intensive uses should the future requirements of the Republic demand this.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree with what the Minister has said just now, but as regards the questions I have asked just now about lands which are reserved for future purposes, his reply is that these lands will be reserved for some future use. I agree to this, but I would like to know whether he can answer me on this point. There are certain areas in Singapore which are not reserved but are used as recreational grounds. These playgrounds are not under the control of the Government, such as a sports stadium. They are under private control for private benefit, for example, amusement parks. Why are they not under the control of Government and put to better use?

Mr Barker: This appears to be Question Time once again! The acquisition of, say, the New World, the Great World, or the Gay World is surely not going to solve our land problem in Singapore. These are not green belt areas. What the Member is worried about is this. She asks why certain lands are not acquired by the Government for resettlement of farmers. The answer is this. We have enough land for farmers as long as these farmers are given not more than two acres, and for the moment we do not find it necessary to acquire more private lands for the purposes of resettlement. I say for the moment only. We may have to acquire more land in the very near future.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $686,490 for Head 1105 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1108 -

The Chairman: Mr Lingam, amendment No. (l)*. He is not here. Mr Lim Cheng Lock, amendment No. (2)+ .

• Amendment No. (1) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1051.

• The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr S. V. Lingam.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Mr Speaker, Sir, I move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251.+

6.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, motorists seem to be the worst hit these days. I would like to inquire from the Minister whether there is a policy governing the development of car parks, whether the policy of the Car Parks Division is to raise more revenue for the Government, and whether this Division is to regulate the use of parking places so that everyone can get a fair share in using the place and proper control is exercised. Also, what is the policy governing the taking-over of streets or roads to be marked out for car parks?

Mr Barker: As the Member for River Valley has put it, it is the motorists who are being hit today. But I wonder whether he is referring to my Ministry or that of the Minister for Finance who has upped the licence fees and upped the road taxes that car owners have to pay. The Member wants to know whether there is a policy for car parks. The answer is yes, and it is this. Our problem is that there are more and more motor-cars, motor-bikes, motor-lorries and other vehicles on our roads. A situation has been reached where it is difficult to find car parking space in the city. It is for this reason that the charges for car parking have been increased. Otherwise, it would be difficult for motorists going into town to find a car parking space. Our policy is not to make money. We increase the fees not with that object in mind, but to enable as many motorists as possible to get car parking spaces.

There are two types of car parks. One in multi-storey buildings, like the Multi-storey Car Park, and the other is the Underground Car Park at Raffles Place. Both these car parks are about 100 per cent full on two or three days of the week, namely, Wednesdays and Saturdays, and about 90 per cent full on other days. We hope to build more car parks, either multi-storey or underground, and we have in mind Colombo Court behind City Hall. We hope to pull down the old building there and put up car parks. But, as is usual, we are meeting with resistance from tenants who refuse to move. We also hope to build more car parks in open spaces, and we have one in mind along the "Golden Mile" at Nicoll Highway. Many a Parliamentarian has received complaints from members of his constituency about the siting of new car parks in various areas in their constituency. I have had many of these complaints and I have directed the Superintendent of the Car Parks Division not to site open area car parks on any road or street without first having consultations with the Parliamentarian of that constituency.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: I beg leave to withdraw, Sir.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendments stood in the name of Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1258.

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1259.

The Chairman: Inche Mohd. Ariff is not here. Mr Lim Cheng Lock.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3131.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in moving this amendment, I just want to seek information as to the necessity of the temporary staff. Is it because of more areas being developed that all these temporary staff are required for the Car Parks Division?

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, this is not a provision just in respect of temporary staff in view of new car parks being built. The fact is that the great majority of the staff in the Car Parks Division are employed on a temporary basis. In fact, all the car parking attendants are not permanent. The reason is this. We feel that this is not a job which is the beginning and the end of the particular employee. We created the job and kept it temporary in order that the employee can improve himself, probably by studying at night, and hope for better things to come. It is for this reason that the staff has always been treated as temporary.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Tang See Chim -

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $100.

The Chairman: Mr Tang See Chim is not here.

The sum of $7,916,390 for Head 1108 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1109 -

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I just want to inquire why is it that the Director of Public Works is drawing less money than that of the Deputy Director?

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, there is a good explanation for this. The Estimates are rather confusing and today Members have moved under wrong heads. Here the Member for River Valley has a legitimate question. On the surface of the Estimates, the Director of Public Works appears to be drawing only $11,700 a year and his Deputy Director $21,240. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to say that the post of Director of Public Works brings to the person who holds the post much more than $11,700. In fact, much more than $21,240. But, at the moment, we have no one who is in the permanent position of Director of Public Works and we do not expect that the post will be filled next year. So we have made no provision for the salary of the Director. What appears in the Estimates is, in fact, the total sum of the extra emoluments which will be paid to those who act in substantive positions. For example, today the Deputy Director of Public Works is acting as Director. In addition to his salary of $21,240, he will be paid the difference in basic salary between his acting post and his permanent post divided by two. The Director of Public Works, in fact, is paid a basic salary of $1,950. The Deputy Director is paid $1,770 basic. When the Deputy Director acts as Director, he is paid the difference between those two sums divided by two, roughly $90 a month more. In the same way, when the Deputy Director acts as Director, someone below him will be acting as the Deputy Director and he will be entitled to an acting allowance. And it goes right down. The sum of $11,700 is to make provision for these acting allowances.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

7.00 p.m.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr S. V. Lingam -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1541.

The Chairman: Mr Lingam is not here. Amendment No. (3) * - Inche Mohd. Ariff is not here. Mr Teong Eng Siong.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $100.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr S. V. Lingam and Inche Mahmud Awang.)

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Public Works Department has carried out satisfactory work in the building of roads, bridges and sewerage projects in various parts of Singapore. But some defects have appeared and I do not know whether it is the fault of the Department. Let me give some examples. Certain projects have, all of a sudden, been stopped. Work on Ulu Sembawang Road began in September and when I passed by that place one day - and it was not on a Sunday - I saw heaps of rubbish piled up and no workers in sight. This is a very unsatisfactory situation because it will obstruct the flow of traffic.

I have also found that some parts of Sun Loong Road in Sembawang, which was completed in October, are now - a period of a little over one month - in a bad state. I have already written to the Chairman of the Urban and Rural Services Committee requesting him to investigate the matter. I would like to ask the Minister why so many holes have appeared in the road and why certain parts have collapsed after only a period of one month since the road was completed. Is this due to malpractices on the part of the contractors?

The next point is that certain projects have been delayed for some time. For instance, in some areas, including Sembawang, the construction of certain roads was approved but these projects were started only one year after approval. From the point of view of our efficient Government, the rate of progress is not very quick. So I hope that the Minister will instruct the department concerned to investigate the reasons for this delay and take immediate steps to remedy the situation in order that the department can keep up its good work.

The Chairman: The Question is,

"That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $100."

Mr S. V. Lingam and Inche Mahmud Awang are not here. Mr Ho.

[Mr Lim Cheng Lock in the Chair]

7.05 p.m.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Sir, the Member for Sembawang has complained about the construction of roads in his own constituency. This was due to the contractor who did not do a good job of it. I can say that this complaint s now under investigation and the Public Works Department will submit a report after the investigation is completed. When the report comes in, proper action will be taken against this contractor.

I can inform the Member for Sembawang that in the last few months, we have received complaints of this nature and a certain contractor has been barred from future contracts for a period of six months to one year.

I would also like other Members to bring such complaints to our attention so that we can check thoroughly the work of the contractors concerned.

With regard to delay in the construction of roads and other projects, this is the first time I have received such a complaint from the Member for Sembawang, but if he can give me more particulars, I can assure him that the delay will be shortened.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary did not give a reply to my third complaint regarding the projects that were started only one year after they had been approved. So I ask him whether he can take steps to remedy the situation.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: I have already said just now that this is the first time I have heard from him that some projects have been held up for one year. If he can give me more particulars of the projects which have been held up for one year, of course, I will look into them and see that the projects are carried out as soon as possible.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I think the Parliamentary Secretary did not understand my complaint. I said that work on certain projects had already started and that they were stopped half-way. That is quite different from work on certain projects which was not started until one year after approval.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: I will speak in Mandarin. (In Mandarin): It is true that work on certain approved roads was started only after some delay. After the approval of the projects, the engineers have to plan and consider what materials are required and advertisements are put out calling for tenders to build the projects.

As regards the delay of one year, this is not a frequent occurrence. If the Member for Sembawang can give me more specific information about the construction of roads which has been delayed for more than one year, I will be glad to look into the situation and ask the Public Works Department to proceed with the work immediately.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for his detailed answer. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $9,742,240 for Head 1109 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1111 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1111 be reduced by $100.

Sir, I have received several complaints about the work carried out by the Building Survey Division, and I would like to bring them to the notice of the Minister. For instance, the approval of building plans is delayed for a long time. A Malay in my constituency applied in March or April last year for a permit to build a house at the place he was staying. He has not received any reply for over a year now, and the Building Survey Division has not even sent anybody to inspect the site or take any steps to deal with the application. I came to know of this when I toured my constituency in April this year. I was surprised to hear this from this particular Malay who complained to me. It is rather surprising and unexpected to know that the approval of building plans can be delayed for more than one year by the Building Survey Division, which is under the control and management of an efficient Government! On hearing this complaint, I immediately contacted the head of the Division and found that it was true. He told me that he would take immediate steps to send some people over to investigate. Two or three weeks later, the application of this particular Malay was approved.

Sir, the example given by me is only one of many similar cases that happen. We know that many villagers are ignorant of the procedures with regard to applications for building permits. They do not know these procedures unless they are advised by those who are in the know. So I hope the Minister will pay attention to this matter and take appropriate steps to remedy the situation.

Sir, there have been complaints by certain people about the arrogant and superior attitude adopted by building inspectors towards them. These building inspectors sometimes purposely try to embarrass the people. Could this be because they want to obtain extra benefit from their work? Now that is a very bad sign and I hope the Minister will take the proper steps to remedy the situation.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

7.15 p.m.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Sembawang has just now mentioned the delay in the approval of building plans by the Building Survey Division. I think it is necessary to give him a rough picture of the Division. In this Division there are at present 18 officers dealing with applications for the rebuilding of houses and applications for temporary buildings. Twelve of them are in charge of the rural areas and six are in charge of the urban areas. Every month the Division receives about 70 applications, most of which come from the rural areas. Therefore, each officer has to deal with about six applications.

The applicant has, first of all, to get a permit from the landlord and, secondly, to submit a plan showing the nature of reconstruction as against the original plan. If these two requirements are met, then the application will be approved very quickly. Normally rural folks do not quite understand the procedure. They merely submit a letter to the officers concerned, saying that they want to repair their houses, without even getting the consent of the landlord. And in cases where they get the consent of the landlord, they do not submit plans. Sometimes the plans do not meet the specifications and, therefore, the officers concerned ask the applicants to submit amended plans, which is not done in time for the consideration of the Division. Therefore, there is inevitably some delay in the process. Sometimes the addresses of the applicants are not clearly written; thus building inspectors cannot locate the addresses. Moreover the addresses, if given correctly, are found to be situated in far out of the way places and cannot be located. Therefore, the officers want the applicants to appoint a time to enable the officers to visit the places concerned. For these various reasons, delay is inevitable and naturally gives rise to complaints.

Regarding the particular case complained of, I feel that it is an isolated case, but I can assure the Member that we have already instructed the Building Survey Division not to delay such applications for too long and that they should, as far as possible, speed up action and deal with the applications promptly.

The Member for Sembawang has also raised the point about the arrogant attitude of the building inspectors towards the rural people. I feel that such an accusation is rather general. However, I shall instruct the Division to take immediate steps to remedy the situation. No doubt there may be com plaints in the Sembawang Constituency, but the Member for Sembawang should have noted down the date, time and place of the occurrence and, if possible, the names of the officers responsible. With such information available, I can then look into the matter, and if it is found that such an occurrence did take place, then our Ministry will take disciplinary action against those officers.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I should say that the answer given by the Parliamentary Secretary is only 60 per cent satisfactory, and the remaining part is inconsistent and contradictory in nature. About the arrogant attitude of the building inspectors, he has admitted that the complaints have been quite general.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Point of clarification, Sir,I said that he passed a general remark - he did not pinpoint which officer was rude to the people.

The Chairman: I suppose a general complaint merits a general answer!

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I was not distorting his answer. If he felt that the complaint was quite general, then why did he not take steps to investigate it? So I feel that his answer is quite contradictory in that respect. But, on the whole, I am quite satisfied with his answer, and I therefore would like to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $1,176,010 for Head 1111 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1112 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1112 be reduced by $100.*

(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Tang See Chim and Inche Mahmud Awang.)

Sir, the work of this Planning Department, if I am not wrong, is based on the Singapore Master Plan. We know that the Master Plan has to be reviewed every five years in order to incorporate certain changes and adjustments which are made to keep up with the changing conditions. I feel that it is only right and proper to do so. But I also know that such adjustments or reviews are mainly concerned with the major aspects of the- plan. For instance, sometime this year - I cannot remember which month it was - the Master Plan after a review was made public for the people to inspect. But this review was not publicised as widely as possible so that the rural folks could also come to inspect it. For instance, about a few years ago certain marshy lands were not suitable for use in the Master Plan, and they were marked out as marshy lands. But after ten years such a situation no longer holds true, because after the land owners and developers had developed the land, it became housing estates. But this improvement was not noted in the plan.

The land between the 13th and 15th mile of my constituency is a good example of this improvement. The urban land between these two milestones has already been developed, and yet it is still depicted as marshy land in the Master Plan. This is ridiculous. And there are other places, similarly improved, which are depicted in the Master Plan as green belt areas, which means that the land cannot be used for development purposes. But, in actual fact, these lands have already been developed as housing estates and there are also community centres set up in such areas, in spite of the fact that some of the houses are illegal structures, and have been in existence for many years, and they are still depicted as green belt areas in the Master Plan. And when some people apply for permits to develop such lands, they are told by the officers that these areas are green belt areas or barren land and approval cannot be given.

Under these circumstances, I hope the Minister will pay more attention to this matter and instruct the officers to go to the spot to investigate if there have been any changes. I would like to advise the officers to go to the East Coast in Kallang Basin just to see what development has already taken place there. Former certain stretches of beaches have now been developed into housing estates, and if the officers do not go to the sites to make an on-the-spot investigation, they will not know the real situation.

I feel that the Minister should pay attention to what I have suggested and try to improve the situation, so that applications for development in green belt areas and vacant land can be approved expeditiously.

Mr Lim Guan Hoo: (In Mandarin): Sir, I just want to interpose to find out whether there is any yellow culture in this green belt area.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): If the Member is interested, he should go there to see for himself whether or not there is any yellow culture.

7.30 p.m.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: In reply to the Member for Sembawang, I just want to remind him that my Minister has just now given a very good answer about the green belts, open space and reserved space in the Master Plan. So there is no need for sue to repeat it. It is true that in the Master Plan there is a new town, but at the moment the plan has not been implemented.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): The Parliamentary Secretary has not given me satisfactory answers to the questions I have asked. I have said just now that certain green belt areas have been changed into housing estates. I have also said that if the officers concerned should go to the sites to make on-the-spot investigations, they will find that many places have been changed into housing estates and not as depicted in the Master Plan. If the Parliamentary Secretary is interested, I will bring him round to see such places and he will know whether what I say is true.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, what the Member for Sembawang wishes to know is why green belt areas can become housing estates and some green belt areas cannot be developed. A green belt area is mainly reserved for future development which is to meet our increasing population in the years ahead. For instance, we reserve certain areas for green belt, so that in 10 or 20 years' time these areas may be developed as housing estates; or a hospital, school, clinic and roads or some other projects may be built there. So there is no point in arguing further as to why some green belt areas can be developed and some cannot.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not mean to argue with the Parliamentary Secretary on this matter. But it is my duty to bring this situation to the notice of this House so that the Minister will pay attention to what I have mentioned. For instance, take a certain area. Part of it is green belt which is made into a development area, and part of it is not approved as a development area. This is not fair.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: I do not wish to prolong unnecessarily the sitting today. There are only 25 minutes more. I have been listening with patience. Sir, I think town planning generally is a long-term policy which cannot be realised in a short period of three to five years. In deciding on the zoning of a certain area, the town planner must take into consideration the possible development and the shape of things to come in the next 10, 20 or even 30 years. It is not possible, once you have decided on the zoning for a particular area, to have it implemented forthwith. I should like to quote one example for the rural area, and another example for the city area. If you look at the island map of the Master Plan, you will notice there are four types of maps - the island map, the town map, the central area map, and the central area programme map. If you look at the island map, you will find that certain parts of land are zoned as green belt or open space, and yet when you go down to the actual site, it is all occupied by either squatters, or a portion of it may be even occupied by one or two permanent structures. That does not mean that once you zone a piece of land as green belt, then all the squatters there and even the semi-permanent structures there must be demolished forthwith, and the whole area turned into a green belt. The idea is to reserve that piece of land, as my colleague has pointed out earlier, for possible future development, and also to provide sufficient green area in the Republic to serve as lungs for the people. That is why green belts and open spaces are demarcated.

If you look at the town map, there are certain areas which are zoned as shopping areas, but when you go down to the actual site and carry out a survey, that particular piece of land may be full of residential houses. The idea is that in the next 5 or 10 years, in the event of urban renewal or if the land owner wishes to demolish a block of buildings to rebuild, then he must comply with the Master Plan provisions, and that is to use that piece of land to erect premises for shopping purposes. As I have said, town planning is a long-term policy which cannot be achieved even in 20 years. I am not aware of areas in the Master Plan zoned as swamps as suggested by the Member for Sembawang. I do know of some un-fixed zoning and they are areas which are shown as white in the Master Plan and are known as "undetermined use", but I am not aware of any area that is used for swamps.

Now, the Member has referred particularly to the east coast. I take it that he is referring to the Bedok reclamation area and the Kallang Basin. The reclamation at Bedok and the Kallang Basin is carried out with the full knowledge of Government. It is part of a scheme by Government, in conjunction with the Planning Department, to reclaim land. This is totally irrelevant to the subject under discussion. The Member has said that a green belt area two years ago was so designated as a green belt area and now it is all filled with houses. The reason is that one of two things might have happened. One, there must have been a re-zoning of that particular area whereby they have permitted residential or other forms of development in the green belt area, or houses might have been erected there without the approval of the Government. If that is the case, they are more likely to be squatters who have erected temporary structures. But it is not possible to have an area zoned as a green belt and then suddenly over a period of three years you find a new housing estate springing up there. By a new housing estate, I take it that the Member for Sembawang means permanent structures like bungalows or semi-detached bungalows and terrace houses. It is not possible, Mr Speaker, Sir. There is provision in the Planning Ordinance - I think it is No. 12 of 1959 - to allow the Minister to waive certain zoning requirements for a certain piece of land; in other words, to exempt the planning provision applicable to this piece of land. In short, if a piece of land is zoned as a shopping area and if an application comes in for the erection of buildings for residential purposes and if the Minister, after weighing the circumstances, decides that it is more beneficial to have this piece of land for the erection of residential premises, then he will waive the requirements under the Master Plan that this piece of land must be used for shopping purposes. So there are sufficient provisions in the law to enable some degree of flexibility so as not to hamper the proper and justified development for the benefit of the Republic and for the benefit of our economy. I am surprised the Member for Sembawang has put up instances like that, it is very difficult to understand what exactly he has in his mind.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I think it is not necessary for me to argue further. But the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture seems to be overstepping his bounds by dealing with a matter which concerns the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development. Perhaps he was once an officer in the Planning Section and, therefore, is quite conversant with the work in this division.

The Chairman: There is nothing improper in what the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture did. He and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development both belong to the same Government and they are together responsible for their activities.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Thank you, Sir. I do not think it is necessary to delay this sitting any further.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: I was merely participating in the debate just now - that was not the reply. I am still awaiting a reply from my colleague here. Would the Member please not withdraw his amendment until my colleague has a chance to reply? The Member seems to imply that my colleague is not in a position to reply. My taking part in the debate is to clarify the picture for the benefit of Members in this House.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: I thought I have already replied.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $652,230 for Head 1112 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairman: The remaining heads of expenditure in respect of which no amendment stands on the Order Paper are Heads 0101, 0102, 0106, 0303, 0306, 0308, 0704, 0802, 0803, 0805, 0806, 0808, 1006, 1103, 1106, 1107 and 1110.

Question, "That the sums stated for those heads of expenditure which appear in the last column of the Abstract of Estimated Expenditure on pages 53 and 54 of Paper Cmd. 26 of 1966 stand part of the Estimates of Expenditure for 1967," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the sum of $514,547,740 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Estimates of Expenditure for the year 1967 contained in Paper Cmd. 26 of 1966," put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has come to a certain resolution.

Resolution reported ---

That the sum of $514,547,740 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Estimates of Expenditure for the year 1967 contained in Paper Cmd. 26 of 1966.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That Parliament doth agree with the Committee on the said resolution."

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolution accordingly agreed to.