MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF SINGAPORE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1977 TO 31ST MARCH, 1978

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

2.35 p.m.

Head N (cont.) -

Mr Ivan Baptist (Potong Pasir): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead ADA 1101*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Dr Ong Leong Boon.)

In 1975 13,966 accidents were reported to the Workmen's Compensation Section. Of these, 3,278 were reported under the new Act which came into force in that year. When the Workmen's Compensation Act of 1971 was repealed and the 1975 Act came into being, among other things, the new Act included industrial dermatitis and noise-induced deafness as compensable diseases. This was in line with the Ministry's policy to continue in its effort to improve the health and welfare of workers and to bring the legislation in line with the modern working environment - that utilises chemicals and other irritants that can cause serious skin ailments if workers are not protected against them through barrier creams or appropriate gloves. In addition the high noise levels in certain manufacturing sectors could probably deafen workers if they are not adequately protected with ear protection.

Since the introduction of this legislation, Sir, I believe that some cases of industrial dermatitis and noise-induced deafness must have been compensated. The latest Ministry of Labour annual report. 1975, does not carry any figures of compensation paid out for these two compensable diseases. Perhaps it is too early for such cases to have emerged, as the law was only then three months' old. But as the 1976 annual report is not available (I do not know whether it is still being printed or being prepared), I would like to know the latest figures of compensation paid out and the number of cases concerned, separately, in respect of these two diseases, since they were included in the Schedule to the Workmen's Compensation Act as compensable diseases.

Could the Minister also enlighten the House whether these workers obtained alternative employment or are still employed in the same establishment where they contracted the diseases? If they are still employed by the same employer, are they in the same jobs as they were prior to contracting these diseases?

Dr Ong Leong Boon (Kim Seng): Sir, I am raising the question in relation to the workings of the Workmen's Compensation Act. As we know, the patients, i.e, the workers, are submitted to medical examination and the extent of permanent or temporary incapacity is then certified.

I have here a copy of the Workmen's Compensation Guide and a copy of the medical report (standard format) upon which doctors have to fill in the particulars. I am suggesting here that the present format for the operation of the Workmen's Compensation Act is not sufficient and does not give a clear-cut indication as to the workings of the Workmen's Compensation Act. It is not my intention to question the quantum of award for workmen's compensation. Neither am I questioning the guidelines for the award for specific loss of limb or part of it, although I have my own reservation on some of these guidelines. I am referring, in particular, to this format which the certifying doctor will have to fill in, and this can be improved if it could be better tabulated in terms of temporary or permanent loss. On top of this, in the interest of the injured person, a form of Compensation Medical Board should be established. This would then allow for more equitable, more expert and fairer medical certification for injuries sustained or diseases contracted during employment. We know at the present moment, all and sundry among the medical profession attend to workmen's compensation. This ranges from expert professors and consultants to very young doctors who have barely one year's medical experience. I could quote examples where a workman who deserved only 5% compensation award was granted 60%. On the other hand the injured person who deserved 30% was given just 5% compensation. Therefore, in the interest of the injured person, may I kindly suggest that a Workmen's Compensation Board be established.

There are insufficient guidelines provided for other elements like emotional or ethnic characteristics of the injured person. This is important because very often if an injured person knows how to play up certain residual symptoms, he or she tends to get away with more awards. I therefore suggest that some guidelines in this direction be provided.

One other matter, which we are all familiar with, is that the injured resort to cultural medicinal practitioners. Very often we do face this problem and as a result of mismanagement the result of treatment is appalling, and yet the same person comes and expects to be compensated for this. I think some guidelines too should be provided in this direction. I am making this request, bearing in mind the interest of the injured person and in the name affair play.

The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour (Mr Fong Sip Chee): Sir, may I first deal with the points raised by the hon. Member for Potong Pasir. Briefly, the Member is concerned with two matters, that is, industrial dermatitis and noise-induced deafness. For the benefit of Members of the House, industrial dermatitis simply means a skin disease. So I prefer to use this term from now on instead of using the technical term. Industrial dermatitis and noise-induced deafness were added to the list of compensable occupational diseases under the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1975. It came into operation on the 1st October of that year.

2.45 p.m.

On skin diseases, the Ministry has not conducted any survey recently but the figures of notification for the past two years for these two diseases are available, and for the information of Members they are as follows.

There were 9 cases of skin diseases in 1975 and 187 in 1976. For noise-induced deafness, no case was registered in 1975 and 912 cases were detected in 1976. Hon. Members should not be alarmed by this figure as I will explain further on this. 870 of these were early cases and only 42 cases were what we regard as proper cases. So do not be alarmed with the high figure. The reason for the increase in the number of skin diseases confirmed in 1976 was due to the compulsory reporting of these cases by medical practitioners under the law. Prior to that, there was no requirement. So there might be cases that did not come to the attention of the Ministry of Labour. Most of these skin diseases were due to the handling of engineering oil or some raw materials, about 56.7% of them resulted from the handling of engineering oil; 10.7% from handling of resins; 8.6% due to solvents; another 8.6% due to handling of fibreglass; 2.1% on cement; 2.1% on paint; and the others about 11.2%

A programme of prevention has been developed and the main task of this programme was the education of workers to minimise skin contact with the irritating and allergic substances through the use of proper protective covering, such as protective clothings, aprons, gloves, face shields and other barrier cream which the Member for Potong Pasir mentioned earlier. To launch this programme the Ministry printed and distributed 3,500 copies of a pamphlet on industrial skin diseases in two languages, namely, Chinese and English, and 1,800 copies of this pamphlet have been distributed to the various industries with known risks of industrial skin diseases, such as the electronic factories, woodworking where they deal with a certain kind of adhesive gum, cement, paint and other factories.

Members are probably aware that industrial skin diseases are by and large a transient kind of disease. They are temporary in the sense that the condition may last for only a few days to a few weeks and very rarely result in residual disability. Once the worker is detected and is removed from the contact of the offending substance or is isolated from the environment, his condition invariably improves.

The question of the great increase of 912 cases of noise-induced deafness reported was largely due to the introduction of the mobile audiometric screening programme for the noisy industries. It was started in May 1977. The screening programme covered a total of 1,731 employees from 33 shipyards and 942 employees from 20 other noisy industries, such as the bottling, cement and concrete pipe-manufacturing factories, etc. By the end of 1976, a total of 912 noise-induced deafness cases were detected. The majority of these cases were in the early stages and only a small number of 42 cases were severe enough to attract workmen's compensation.

The Ministry has developed a hearing conservation programme as a preventive measure to control noise-induced deafness. The main emphasis of this hearing conservation programme, which has been widely publicised, is to educate and persuade workers to put on hearing protectors while at work. Noise control is carried out only when it is considered technically and economically feasible by the factories. Pamphlets on noise-induced deafness in three languages. Chinese. English and Malay, and also a booklet on the hearing conservation programme have been published and distributed free of charge to those industries with the risk of hearing loss. About 3,000 of the pamphlets have been distributed to noisy factories, such as shipyards, textiles, metal and other manufacturing establishments. Over 600 copies of the hearing conservation programme booklets have been distributed to shipyards, metal can manufacturing. woodworking, textile and other factories.

At this stage. I might wish to draw a line that the hearing conservation programme is distinct from noise pollution control. In the United States, there were arguments as to whether 90 decibels should be the accepted norm instead of 85 decibels. So there was a research trying to reduce 90 decibels down to 85 decibels and they discovered that for every point reduced from 90 to 85 decibels it would cost the industry somewhere around US$2 billion. I do not think Singapore has reached that stage to mount that noise pollution control which is quite distinct from the hearing conservation programme. So we are launching on a more practical approach to this problem rather than throw the problem out of its proportion.

I just want to give the hon. Member some statistics on the number of cases of industrial dermatitis and also the amount of compensation paid. They are as follows:- Temporary Permanent Amount of Year incapacity incapacity Compensation No. of No. of cases cases 1975 6 Nil $ 210.59 1976 109 1 $5,400.97 1977 Up to 12th March 22 - $ 360.13 -------------------------------------------- Total 137 1 $5,971.69 --------------------------------------------

May I now deal with the hon. Member for Kim Seng. The Workmen's Compensation Act provides sufficient basis and guidelines for the award of loss of earning capacity in respect of permanent incapacity suffered by our workmen as a result of injuries while at work. The First Schedule to the Act specifies the percentage to be awarded for the loss of use of the various members of the body. The listing in the Schedule is very comprehensive and covers even the loss of parts of a member, that is, for example, the loss of phalanx. There is therefore no difficulty for the doctor to make an award for such injuries.

However, I agree with the Member that there are certain types of injuries, such as those involving fractures or internal injury which cannot be quite easily determined as to the loss of capacity. It may be possible to have differing medical assessments on the loss of use of the part concerned. Where such differences of opinion occur, although very rarely, it is the practice of the Ministry to refer the injured workman for a final assessment by a specialist. The Ministry is aware of the need for uniformity in medical assessment for these types of injuries. It is, in fact, taking steps to seek the assistance of the Ministry of Health to draw up guidelines for doctors to follow on the same basis as those listed on the First Schedule of the Act.

As to whether or not we should constitute a board or panel. I think the objective is the same. Rather than set up another administrative barrier, which may cause delay to compensation being awarded, I think the main objective is to ensure uniformity. I will bear in mind the Member's suggestion, which is a good one. We will look into that.

In the case of an injured workman who refuses treatment, the Workmen's Compensation Act provides for suspension of his right to compensation until he offers himself for a medical examination. The hon. Member has mentioned that there are a few cases where the injured worker, having submitted himself for treatment, subsequently stopped medication and sought the treatment of physicians of traditional methods who are registered medical. practitioners. I must say that this is a dangerous practice and the injury may be aggravated, and if confirmed by the doctor treating him, might result in legal complication and the objection by the insurance company on the quantum of the final compensation. I would appreciate that if such cases do occur the doctor treating the worker should refer the case to us. So far, there are very, very few such cases, fortunately.

With regard to the other irregularity mentioned by the Member about the differences in the sensitivity to pain experienced by different workers, with different cultural backgrounds, some workers cannot bear to see the sight of an injection needle, it must be pointed out that workmen's compensation, unlike the common law, does not take into consideration such factors. The compensation awarded under the Act is based solely on the objective yardstick of the loss of earning capacity. Subjective factors such as pain and suffering should not be included in the assessment of compensation to be paid under the Act.

I hope I have answered the questions raised by the hon. Members.

Mr P. Govindaswamy (Anson): Sir, one point of clarification. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary mentioned that the booklet was published in three languages. I want to know what are the languages and whether Tamil is included.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: I am very sorry, Sir. The three languages are English, Chinese and Malay. Unfortunately, we left out Tamil because we believe most of the Tamil workers do read English. And for reasons of cost and coverage, we believe the three languages would suffice to cover the entire workforce. If there is a need in some particular industry where Tamil workers are in the majority, we will produce future booklets with Tamil in mind.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Sir, three points of clarification. First, the Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour stated that the noise level of 90 decibels was considered in the United States and after some discussion they decided not to belabour this particular problem due to its cost. But I do believe that noise levels are not the only ones to be considered but also exposure time. Maybe the Senior Parliamentary Secretary had just missed It out inadvertently. I believe it is six hours.

On the second point with regard to noise-induced deafness, the quantum of compensation paid out has not been answered by the Parliamentary Secretary. He mentioned about 2,000-plus workers were screened by the audiometric testing facilities at the Ministry. I believe there are 24,000 workers in about 400 factories with high noise levels. How does the Ministry intend to cover all these. And when they do so, will the levels of noise-induced deafness and the quantum of compensation shoot up to a fantastic level that could frighten us?

3.00 p.m.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, the accepted noise level in the United States should not be taken as a yardstick for our purpose. In fact, the problem in the United States has grown beyond the question of protecting the workers. As I have said, there is a difference between noise pollution control and hearing conservation. We are adopting hearing conservation but not noise pollution control. In the United States this problem has grown far beyond the scope of industrial health. It has become a political issue where even a politician running for a mayor -

Mr Ivan Baptist: Can the Parliamentary Secretary cut it short?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, as to the question of the amount of compensation paid. I am afraid that up till now no compensation has been paid to any of those 42 cases. They are still under medical assessment. To be fair to the workers, we need to observe them, and until such time when the doctor is satisfied that they deserve a certain percentage of compensation, they shall be paid according to the Schedule.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Mr Speaker, Sir, I was not talking about noise level. I was talking about exposure time. Could the Parliamentary Secretary clarify this point? When he spoke about 90 decibels, that is the noise level, but exposure time is important too.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: The question of different exposure time and different levels is rather technical and complicated. It is not necessary that a person must be exposed for six hours to 90 decibels. It is exposure time and the frequency of the exposure. I do not think I should involve the House in this highly technical argument. If the Member insists, I can produce statistics but I do not think it is fair to the House to proceed along this line.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AGA 1101.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as the Senior Parliamentary Secretary has answered most of the questions which I had intended to raise under subhead AGA 1101, I propose therefore to touch on just one point. According to the 1975 Annual Report of the Ministry of Labour, 15 out of 25 granite quarries have installed permanent dust control measures. What steps are being taken to ensure that the 10 other granite quarries introduce these permanent dust control measures?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, the function of the control of granite quarries has been transferred to the PWD. I am afraid I am not able to provide any answer to that without notice. That function is no longer the responsibility of the Ministry of Labour.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Mr Speaker, Sir, I notice that the Industrial Health Unit, now called the Industrial Health Department, is still monitoring dust levels in granite quarries. So could they make recommendations to the correct Ministry concerned?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Industrial Health Department monitors the health level, without the power to insist that the quarries should install certain gadgets or equipment. Discussion is going on between my Ministry and the Ministry of National Development as to how previous regulations and control which were transferred to them can again be, shall I say, revived.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Mr Speaker, Sir, that is excellent. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Teong Eng Siong (Sembawang): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AHA 1101* (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy).

Sir, under this subhead I would like to touch upon industrial accidents. Although this question has been raised many a time in the past in this House, and the Ministry has been urged to take more effective measures to reduce its occurrence, industrial accidents continue to recur now and then. According to statistics, there were 4,252 cases of industrial accidents in 1976 and in 1975 there were 3,827 showing an increase of 425 cases. In 1975 there were 67 fatal cases, whereas in 1976 there were 62 cases, showing a slight decrease. Just about a week ago there was a serious industrial accident at the Senoko Power Plant in Sembawang which resulted in three deaths and three wounded.

What is worth mentioning is that among industrial accident figures for the building construction industry, those relating to HDB worksites rate quite a high proportion. According to Volume 2, No. 8 of Lao gong zhi shi ( ) the Chinese equivalent of the "New Worker" published by the Educational Publications Bureau, in 1975 there were 651 industrial accidents in building sites, of which 155 cases involved the HDB, and from January to July 1977 there were 177 accidents involving HDB worksites, among which there were 16 fatality cases. This shows that there are still many shortcomings and loopholes in the HDB worksite safety measures. There should be more stringent control and supervision. The supervisory or managerial officers should have been severely reprimanded, because it is not a small matter that so many precious lives have been lost and so many able bodied persons have been seriously incapacitated. Had there been better safety precautions taken, these unnecessary losses would have been avoided.

In the field of safety precautions. I remember that some two years ago the Institute of Occupational Health and Safety was set up to look into industrial health and safety and related matters. Now after two years of research they must have some valuable and concrete proposals to make. I would like to know what are the results of the last two years and what are their recommendations. When will these recommendations be put into effect to reduce industrial accidents.

Sir, other than the shipbuilding industry which shows a decreasing number of accident cases, there are still many serious accidents involving other industries, particularly the building construction industry. There were 698 cases last year. This is an area which we should pay attention to. Since we have various industrial safety provisions, they should be stringently carried out.

The Minister explained that there was a shortage of inspectors and the funds allocated by the Finance Ministry were not sufficient. I am quite in sympathy with the Minister. However. I feel that this is a matter of life and death. It is not a small matter to be treated lightly. The Ministry concerned should try its best to get more funds from the Finance Ministry in order to employ more inspectors. The Inspectorate now has 77 permanent officers, including inspectors, in relation to tens of thousands of factories. I feel the number is too small. More inspectors should be recruited, in order to ensure better industrial safety.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I fully support the Member for Sembawang. He has produced facts and figures which I want to talk about further.

What safety measures are being introduced in factories, worksites and shipyards? There does not seem to be a reduction in the number of fatal cases at these places. There seems to be too much complacency on the part of the employers and the Labour Ministry. During the last one year, there have been a number of fatal accident cases in shipyards and worksites. It looks as though life is cheap in these places, very cheap. Lately, the accident involving a mobile crane at the Senoko Power Station worksite could be a typical example of a possible lack of proper supervision, and the overall careless attitude to life at worksites. Human life is cheap' Despite safety campaigns, which are sporadic at the most, there seems to be no reduction in accidents involving the loss of life and limb at shipyards, worksites and factories. The safety units and factory inspectorate must really expand and wake up!

There is a shortage of inspectors and they cannot sufficiently enforce safety measures at the worksites. Everywhere buildings are coming up, shipyards and other worksites. There are not enough inspectors. The Labour Ministry should increase the Inspectorate staff. Later we will then see whether there are any more accidents.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, in fact the shortest answer to these two proposals is yes, we welcome more staff. Definitely it will do us a whole world of good.

But before I deal with the specific points raised by both the Member for Anson and the Member for Sembawang, perhaps I might take this opportunity to enlighten the two Members on certain statistical information which they might have read from the Press from time to time and on which they might have based their observations. The Member for Sembawang has quoted the correct statistics. Could the Member for Potong Pasir, please take note? This is very important, as I will explain now.

The state of industrial health and safety cannot be measured merely on simple statistics on the number of cases and the number of fatalities alone. There are other factors which must be taken into consideration in order to obtain a proper assessment of the real situation. A detailed explanation might be too academic for the purposes of discussion in this House. Therefore, I think it would suffice to state that other factors, such as the severity rate, frequency rate, number of man-hours worked, number of workers and so on, are all important considerations.

3.15 p.m.

The random quoting of statistics in the mass media appears to have swayed the views of some hon. Members as well as members of the public; hence the observation that the state of industrial health and safety in the Republic appears to have got out of hand. I have previously explained in this House that there is a difference between the statistics of the workmen's compensation figures and the Factory Inspectorate figures. Briefly, for working purposes, the Ministry defines "industrial accidents" as those reportable under the Factories Act. Take, for instance, the total number of fatalities in the last few years: 88 deaths in 1974, 67 in 1975 and 63 in 1976. Members can see a gradual decline. These figures appear to be roughly one-third, more or less, of the total fatalities reported under the Workmen's Compensation Act which covers non-industrial establishments, that is to say, no licence is required or the need to report in accordance with the provisions of the Factories Act. For this category. I will broadly classify them as "other occupational accidents" which include white collar or non-industrial workers.

Sir, the definition is necessary and important because very often the term "industrial accident" or "accident at work site" is used which, if left unclarified, might result in the psychological resentment and resistance of our young workers in entering the industrial sector or taking on blue collar jobs.

The hon. Members for Anson and Sembawang have raised certain questions regarding industrial safety and health. May I take the Member for Anson first. He asked what measures of safety have been introduced and implied that my Ministry has been complacent in regard to industrial safety and health programmes. In his statement during the debate on the President's Address, my Minister has already informed the House of the measures that my Ministry has taken to improve industrial safety and health. These measures include the setting up of safety and health standards, stepped-up enforcement, training of safety personnel. supervisors and workers and the promotion of greater safety and health consciousness among employers and workers. As a result of these measures, there has been an improvement in safety and health in our shipyards and slight improvement in the construction work sites. The Member for Anson may wish to refresh his memory by looking up the Hansard.

The Member for Anson referred to the accident at the Senoko Power Station. I believe the Member for Sembawang also raised that point. A crane which was stuck in the rut overturned while it was being manoeuvred into position. The accident occurred during salvage operations to upright the crane. Investigations showed that the crane overturned as a result of several factors. Firstly, the ground was at an incline and it was not suitable to bear the weight of the crane which was a heavy equipment. Secondly, the boom - I wonder whether the Member for Sembawang understands what the boom of a crane is. It is the hand of the crane used for hoisting. The boom of the crane was raised and opened up so to speak, thus adversely affecting the stability of the crane. To make it worse, two mechanical shovels were used to free the crane from the rut (rather stupid I would say) one pulling from the front and the other pushing from the rear. It was not a synchronised movement. There were two operators working on two separate mechanical shovels, one pulling and the other pushing. The movement was not synchronised, power was not synchronised, very unfortunate, and this resulted in the crane overturning. There were some workers working around and the accident took place as described by the two hon. Members. Sad to say, Sir, there was supervision at the site by an engineer. Obviously there had been some error of judgment. I do not wish to comment further on this as my Ministry is investigating into the case and is contemplating taking appropriate action. So I think I should refrain from commenting further on this particular case.

Sir, while industrial safety and health has improved in the construction worksites and shipyards, I agree with the Member for Sembawang that there is still room for improvement, especially in the case of the construction industry. The number of fatalities in worksites dropped from 36 in 1975 to 32 in 1976, but the number of minor accidents increased from 651 to 698. The Ministry will concentrate on two major types of accidents, that is, workers falling from heights and also workers struck by falling objects, to make construction worksites a safer place to work.

The main objective of the proposed setting up of the Institute of Occupational Safety and Health is to centralise the various ad hoc arrangements for training of safety personnel. At the moment, training is conducted by several agencies and it is difficult to maintain consistent standards due to the frequency of the courses as well as the change of instructors. This is not to say that the standards are low, but this arrangement is rather haphazard and unhealthy.

Whilst the present arrangement appears to meet the existing requirements, it is considered inadequate in the long run, taking into consideration the type and the number of industries with more and more sophisticated machinery, the handling of raw materials with chemical and other dangerous content. I must assure the Member for Sembawang that this proposal is being actively pursued. An indicative five-year development plan is being worked out and the matter will be taken up shortly with the relevant authorities for approval.

I must caution though at this stage that the Institute must be realistic in its approach and should not take on other responsibilities that may not be immediately relevant to the industrial scene. As the Institute gradually takes shape, other functions such as consultancy and research can then be added, if deemed expedient.

Three safety and health exhibitions have been organised in the past. The first was in 1974 for the construction industry. The second in 1975 for the shipbuilding and repair industry. And the third in 1976 for the woodworking industry. These exhibitions have created among employers and workers a greater awareness of industrial safety and health problems in their respective industries. These exhibitions have, therefore, in that sense assisted us in making work in the industries more safe.

Both Members touched on the staffing of the Factory Inspectorate. The Factory Inspectorate can certainly do with more field officers. For the present level of operation, the number of field officers is adequate when stretched to the limit with back-up systems of safety officers and safety committee down at the plant level. The Factory Inspectorate continuously reviews the methods of operation to streamline our inspection and to ensure high quality of work and also wider coverage. Hon. Members may have observed that the Factory Inspectorate field officers have been significantly augmented in the past years. In 1973 we had a total of 36 field officers in the establishment, whereas there are now a total of 55 in the current establishment. The rate of increase in the field staff of the Inspectorate compares favourably with the increase in the number of factories registered with the Inspectorate. There were, 4,880 factories in 1973 as compared to 5,747 (not 10,000 as the Member for Sembawang said earlier) by the end of 1976. However. the Ministry will continuously review the staffing position of the Inspectorate and will make requests for more staff as and when there is an increase in workload or the level of operation is stepped up in future.

Finally, may I just touch on two other points raised by the Members for Sembawang and Anson. The Member for Sembawang quoted statistics of construction site accidents. I have got the figures here. In 1976, the total number of accidents at all work sites is 698, out of which 241 took place in Housing Board sites, representing 34.5%. On the cases of fatalities or death cases, out of 32 death cases the Housing Board sites took 21 or 65.6%. The Housing Board has now got its own Safety Department with trained officers and they are setting up their own enforcement and safety standards at their sites. I believe they have been doing good work, and I am informed that the HDB has also inaugurated its own disincentive scheme by imposing penalties on their contractors who are found to have flouted safety rules. I believe that with action on the part of the Housing Board, the safety standards in HDB construction sites will certainly improve in the future.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the detailed reply given by the Senior Parliamentary Secretary, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by the whole sum in respect of subhead AHA 1101.

Before I fire the first salvo, Sir, at the Factory Inspectorate, may I be permitted to give them a bouquet where the shipbuilding and repairing industries in Singapore are concerned. Accident statistics have dropped tremendously in this area, and I believe that it is because of the good work of the Factory Inspectorate. But I must hasten to add that without the assistance of very able personnel from outside the Factory Inspectorate, such a record might not have been possible.

Where the building industry is concerned, I am afraid that the Factory Inspectorate has been quite fast asleep. Accident statistics have been hovering above 600 and shot up last year, close to 700. Fatalities have been over the 30 mark - 34 in 1974, 34 in 1975 and 32 in 1976. I believe the Factory Inspectorate has not grasped the problems in the building construction industry. It is something intricate, something that they will need to go deeper into, maybe seek help from outside as they have done in order to contain the accident rate in the shipbuilding and repairing industry. I am hoping that the hon. Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour will be able to give this House some concrete measures planned by the Factory Inspectorate to ensure that this condition will not be repeated when we meet again this time next year and debate as to whether the Factory Inspectorate should receive the sum as allocated in the Main and Development Estimates.

3.30 p.m.

Sir, let me touch on another point. While agreeing with the Senior Parliamentary Secretary for Labour that knowledge of accident statistics alone cannot alleviate the accident incidence and severity rates. statistics will reflect the safety or otherwise of the working environment and enable Government, employers and workers to put to use tripartitism that exists in most working places towards ensuring a safer working environment. Whilst not wanting to be too technical for the Senior Parliamentary Secretary for Labour. I must say that statistics is an important arm to assist in reducing the number of accidents in working places.

For the past years the Ministry has produced monthly statistics which are made available to employers, trade unions and workers, and any one interested in seeing accident incidence rates dip. Unfortunately, the Ministry has decided to sweep the dust under the carpet, so to speak. It stopped issuing monthly reports containing statistics. No, I am not asking for the American National Standard statistics under Z 16.1. Gross statistics alone will be sufficient and it will not entail too many able-bodied men from the Ministry of Labour to work out these statistics so that people like us and others, who are interested in ensuring that workers do not end up maimed or dead will be able to come together and Sort out the problem that we face either in the factories or in building sites to ensure that accident incidence rates have actually dipped. I feel that statutory safety committees - it is a good thing it has been introduced into the law - will be able to utilise these statistics for the benefit of workers who would not otherwise have been injured. Unless they know the working environment, know the conditions that exist. know the hazards that exist and once these hazards have been spotted, they can control them and prevent their recurrence.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, the American Standard Z 16.1 does not give us the accident statistics. It is a format to teach us how to calculate man-days lost. They call it ANSI Z 16.1.

Sir, may I first deal with the Member's question on statistics. The Member for Potong Pasir has queried on the reason why the Ministry has stopped publishing these monthly reports. I presume the Member is more interested in statistics on accidents alone because this report also contained other information. I wish to say that the Member appears to have been mistaken when he stated that we have ceased publication of these statistics. The Ministry has decided to change the frequency of this publication from monthly to six-monthly. So if the Member could wait until June, I can assure him that a copy will be sent to him.

The publication of the Monthly Report first started in 1955. Unfortunately, for the last two days I have not been able to uncover the thinking behind the origin of this Monthly Report. This is rather an odd procedure. No other Ministry publishes monthly reports. In view of the shortage of supporting clerical staff, the Ministry has been considering for some time the need for the continuance of the publication of the monthly report, which involves the cutting of stencils, proof reading, printing and binding. Senior officers are also involved in preparing and vetting of the draft departmental reports before compiling them for production which, again, would mobilise a good number of officers for a week or so. It is a very labour-intensive piece of work.

Where there is a need to keep a close tab on the situation, such as in the case of the two most accident-prone industries, the building construction and shipbuilding and repairing industries, monthly accident statistics are compiled and submitted for the information of the two advisory committees under the Ministry. These committees, with representatives from interested parties are established by the Ministry to look into ways and means of preventing accidents in these two industries.

The Member for Potong Pasir may be aware that there are representatives from the unions, namely PIEU and NTUC, in these two committees. Nevertheless, if the Member for Potong Pasir is interested to have NTUC representatives on these committees or to have the statistics, we would supply all the data to him.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Monthly?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Well, if the Member is persistent, monthly it will be, but only to him or any other. Member here who is interested. We find that it would be a useless exercise to publish these reports because only about 1% of the people read them.

Generally, I share the concern of the Member for Potong Pasir regarding the safety situation in the construction industry. As stated by the Minister during the debate on the President's Address, while the accident frequency and severity rates have improved, the safety situation in the construction industry needs further improvement. I assure the Member that we know what we are doing. We have been monitoring the situation and the increase in the number of accidents is mainly due to a better monitoring system, as we have repeatedly said in the past. There is a committee looking into this problem with representatives from the Singapore Institute of Architects, the Singapore Institute of Surveyors, the Institute of Builders and the Association of Consultant Engineers. The Member can see that this committee is highly specialised. They are people who know exactly what they are talking about. There is no question of the Ministry not knowing how to handle the problem.

But there is one point which I wish to leave to the Member for Potong Pasir to think about. It is extremely difficult to convince the contractors and their workers because they are not that organised. The workers are not unionised, so the NTUC cannot reach them. With the educational level of the contractors. from illiterate to semi-literate, it is very difficult to deal with them; unlike the shipbuilding industry where we deal with more enlightened people. So this is the problem that will haunt us in the next few years until we find ways and means, either punitive or otherwise, to bring them in line with the thinking of the Ministry.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Sir, from his answer the Senior Parliamentary Secretary has grasped the problem, but I hope that he can filter this down to his Factory Inspectorate. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $9,783,950 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $799,000 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head Q -

Mr Ngeow Pack Hua (Boon Lay): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004* (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs. P. Govindaswamy. Teong Eng Siong, J. F. Conceicao, Ch'ng Jit Koon, Ho See Beng and Dr Ong Leong Boon).

Sir, during the debate on the President's Address in this House, the Minister for Culture made a very important announcement to this House, namely, that the Government intends to amend the Newspaper and Printing Presses Act so that no one without approval would be allowed to own more than 3% of the shares of a newspaper company. The intention of the Government is to see that no newspaper is being controlled by any individual or family. This amendment will greatly affect local newspapers, particularly the structure of Chinese Newspapers. I would like the Minister to further explain, if possible, the contents and the objectives of this amendment Bill. When the Bill is presented for Second Reading. I will speak further on this.

It seems that the Government is very concerned about the development of newspapers. This is a good thing. We all agree that a newspaper is a very important mass medium and it should not be made use of by a handful of people working against the interests of the country. On the other hand, we must also remember that the newspaper can contribute much to a country. However, the Government's concern is more from the negative angle rather than from the positive angle.

As a medium of communication, one of the important functions of a newspaper is to disseminate news and views. With regard to relations between the Government and the people, it is a newspaper's duty also to publish Government policies and activities and to reflect the views of the people. However, I must say with regret that the Government has not actively helped newspapers to disseminate news. Two years' ago, when debating the Budget not a few Members of Parliament criticised the newspapers for the paucity of news and the low standard. Some even said the newspapers knew only to print the Ministers' or MPs' speeches. The low standard of newswriting is due to the low standard of language education. However, this is not what we are discussing here. The main question is whether a newspaper can offer a good supply of lively and significant news to its readers. The difficulty of newspaper reporters now is the question of getting news particularly from Government departments which merely treat the newspapers as a medium for publicising Ministerial statements. If newspaper reporters go out of their way to get news from Government departments, they will invariably meet with objection. We seem to have formed the habit that the Ministers must be high on top and inaccessible and that civil servants know only to carry out their work according to rules and regulations and they are out-and-out bureaucrats. All enquiries by reporters are met with the answer "No comment". Many important departments have got Public Relations Officers. What are they doing? They only know how to write letters to the press to answer readers' enquiries. To newspaper reporters' news enquiries, they either disregard them or try to be' evasive or equivocal. In the Ministry of Culture, we do not even have a PRO.

Sir, let me quote one example. Not long ago, the Ministry of Education decided to abolish the automatic promotion system. This is a very important decision. However, the Ministry was extremely embarrassed in having to make such a decision. So much so that it tried to do it stealthily. When the newspaper reporters came to know about this decision, they made enquiries at the Education Ministry. However, the officials in the Ministry tried to be equivocal and gave two versions to two different newspapers causing unnecessary confusion. In the end, people interested in education suffered and not the newspapers.

We know that newspapers are owned privately and they are not under the direct control of the Government. However, the Ministry of Culture has a duty to help journalists in their work, which will also benefit the Government. The PRO in every department should have something more practical and meaningful to do and not just to write letters. Some years ago, various ministries used to have "meet-the-press" sessions. Now, there seems to be none. I remember when I was a newspaper reporter, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development who was also the Chairman of the Urban and Rural Services Committee used to have this kind of meet- the-press sessions regularly, when the whole of Singapore knew about the URSC activities. I do not know why he does not have any more of these meet-the-press sessions. Is it because he has nothing more to say or has somebody not allowed him to speak?

3.45 p.m.

Sir, in a country like ours, Government activities are one of the main sources of news for the newspapers. If the Government were to cut off such source of news, it would not do any good to the newspapers as well as to the Government. I hope the Ministry of Culture will take the initiative to solve this problem.

Next, I would like to touch on the news handled by Television Singapore. By "news" I mean there are news items and views. In this regard, the Chinese section is doing better than the English section. In the Chinese section, there is the programme called "News Magazine" which is quite successful. However, the English section does not have such a programme. It has more programmes on entertainment than on news and education. RTS has very little time for daily news. Although there are two English news bulletins, there is only one news bulletin each for the Chinese, Tamil and Malay sections. The news broadcasts in the four languages could not include late news, such as MPs speeches as at 7 p.m. here. The Chinese Section does not include it in the news telecast. I suggest that both Channel 5 and Channel 8 should broadcast the late news briefly in all the four languages, English, Chinese. Malay and Tamil, before closing time. RTS is Government-owned and operated, therefore it should be a means to educate and to entertain our people. In Hong Kong, the television station is privately owned, yet their news broadcasting time is more than ours.

Next, I want to talk about the news readers. We must be careful in the selection of news readers. If a news reader appears too often on television and becomes well known, then if he suddenly becomes an opposition candidate, it will be very embarrassing to all of us. I believe the Member for Serangoon Gardens will agree with me. Therefore, I suggest RTS should not engage any more guest news readers in future.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Culture seems to be obsessed with the formation of a Western style symphony orchestra. May I ask: is this symphony orchestra really necessary? We should first and foremost develop our own Asian music, art and literature and not be inclined towards the West for our cultural development. It seems that very little is being done by the Ministry of Culture in the development of Asian art, music, dance and literature. And what little development there is, is the result of the initiative and interest of a few hard-working people who had to struggle against great odds in both financial and material matters. Should we not develop good Chinese, Indian and Malay music and painting in keeping with an Asian concept?

Sir, what is the Ministry of Culture doing to encourage Art among our youngsters? The Young People's Gallery has become a museum piece of late. The few outdoor exhibitions were so poorly patronised that it is high time the Ministry of Culture did something to coordinate its efforts with the Ministry of Education. Credit can be given to the Ministry of Education for taking the initiative to open a sales centre at Hotel Premier. This is really commendable.

Sir, we have in the past been talking so much about the concept of a Singapore culture of our various races. What efforts are being made in this direction? There seems to be very little motivation and drive in this effort. We do not seem to get many programmes on the Singapore culture. Even the National Theatre Trust of late does not seem to be in the limelight. What has happened to the Trust in its promotion of a Singapore culture? I feel that more quality programmes on Singapore culture should be organised at various levels and distributed locally and abroad so that we can be culturally identified by others in a better light.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, every year when Parliament meets to discuss matters relating to the Ministry of Culture, the subject of culture has always been a very hot topic. This shows that everybody is very interested in culture and it also shows that everybody is very concerned with the development of our culture and art. Of course, culture and art is very important to the nation and it is particularly important to the spiritual life of our people. If we do not have sufficient cultural food then the life of our people will become lonely, devoid of spiritual and cultural content. We will be like people living in the desert. Since culture and art is so important to the cultural life of our people, therefore we must regard the promotion of culture and art as a pressing need and an immediate task to bring our people to the oasis of their cultural life.

Sir, since our independence, cultural and artistic activities in our country have never been as progressive or active as our economic progress. There are several reasons which I would like to enumerate. First, the Ministry of Culture has not fixed or formulated any definite objective in the field of promotion of culture and art. Although the Ministry of Culture has stressed that it intended to promote the cultural and artistic heritage of the various ethnic communities in the country, no concrete steps have been taken to effect such a decision.

Secondly, the Ministry of Culture is lacking in experienced artistes. The Minister admitted this on the 15th of this month in this House. What is the reason for the shortage of experienced artistes? The main reason is that the pay is too little. We expect people to give more value than they are paid for. This is not the way to raise our cultural standard. Obviously, at present it is not possible to get such dedicated talents. The Ministry should give more reasonable awards, in order to get good talent. This is a prerequisite to the promotion and the raising of the standard of culture and art.

Sir, under the Main Estimates of the Ministry of Culture, the allocation for the financial year amounts to $47.7 million whereas for the Development Estimates the allocation is $10.4 million. There is a decrease of $3 million in development allocation. Would it affect the cultural and artistic development? I remember the Member for Katong raised this question in this House two years ago, and the reply by the Minister was that the solution to the question of culture and art did not depend on any amount of money and culture and art needed nurturing over a long period. It is, of course, true to say that the amount of money spent on culture is not the criterion to the standard of culture and art. Nevertheless it is one of the necessary boosters. It is all very well to say so, but if people engaged in cultural and artistic activities are not reasonably paid, how can we expect them to give good performances? This situation has taken place in respect of TV programmes. For instance, for a TV script the payment is $99, whereas the producer would get $50. [Interruption]. This is too little. How can we expect to get a good standard of programmes? This is the reality of things. When we talk of "from each his best, and to each his worth", in the field of art, particularly in respect of the RTS and its artistes, they should also have their remunerations raised. Otherwise how can we expect them to produce better quality stuff for our TV and Radio programmes?

Thirdly, we should open up more training classes for our new artistes. On 23rd February, in this House, the Minister in reply to my question said that at that moment there were already courses for the training of local artistes. One was meant for adults and the other for children. Of course, this is a very good plan. I hope good results will be achieved so that in the not too distant future we will be able to see better local programmes.

Fourthly, we should encourage civic and artistic organisations in our community to take part in TV programmes. The President has pointed out in his Address that we should develop our traditional cultures and arts. If that is so, we must try to formulate plans to effect this. We could investigate how many artistes are available. There could be many elites who are capable in this field whom we have not discovered. We should organise them and make use of them so that they can contribute their best towards the development of culture and art.

Furthermore, as regards cultural and artistic organisations in our community, we should allow them more time and opportunity to perform for TV and radio so as to encourage the promotion of local talents in culture and art. There is another question I would also like to ask the Minister and that is whether he would consider filming newsreels on our local activities reporting on the various aspects of our life and progress so that our people can understand our own situation and progress better.

The Minister for Culture and Science and Technology (Mr Jek Yeun Thong): Mr Speaker, Sir, may I be permitted to reply to the first three speakers before the other Members speak?

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, during the debate on the President's Address I have laid down the policy on the restriction of ownership of newspaper companies' shares. I have stated the principle, the objective and the reasons for such action. There is really nothing more for me to add now. As regards the details and how they are to be implemented, I think it is best to leave it to the legal draftsman. We have already instructed them to work out an amendment based on the principles laid down in the policy speech. This will be presented to the House in due course, and I am sure the Member will be able to read all about it when it comes up for the First and Second Readings.

4.00 p.m.

Regarding public relations officers and the spokesmen for the various Ministries. I share the sympathy which the Member for Boon Lay has for his fellow journalists about their difficulty in getting information from the public relations officers in Government Ministries and departments. This is nothing new. He may wish to know that even our RTS reporters have experienced the same difficulty. Unfortunately my Ministry has no control whatsoever over this.

The Publicity Division of my Ministry receives through its Press Section policy speeches and press statements issued by Ministries and departments for release to the press. It also helps to arrange press conferences for them. For instance, the one by G. Raman and Arun Senkuttuvan was arranged by this section. However, the Publicity Division is in no position to obtain information for reporters if the Ministry concerned is reluctant to release such information.

There is always a tug of war between the journalists and Government officials. On the one hand, it is the duty of Government officials to see that no information of a sensitive nature should fall into the hands of unauthorised persons. If there is any news story at all, it would be issued by the department concerned. They will wait until the most opportune time to issue it, in which case every journalist will get a copy of the statement. On the other hand, it is the duty of a journalist to dig out any information there is from a Government department, so as to be ahead of his rival journalists. So there is always this conflict of duty and interest. The Government official is in a dilemma. If he leaks out a story, he is in trouble, he will lose his job. If he releases the story and it does not get good coverage from the newspapers, he is also in trouble and he will also lose his job. So there is a constant battle of wits and manoeuvring skill between the two. I do not think the journalists should expect us to fight the battle for them.

I do not think it is fair to blame the Ministry of Culture for the low standard of the newspapers. It is not true to say that Ministers are sitting in high places and ignore the people from the low - gao gao zai shang (). This is not true. Being elected MPs and elected Ministers, we meet the people all the time. In fact, we create the opportunity to meet the people. We canvas, we go round, and we meet the lowest of the low. The way the criticism was directed at us is very unfair. But if the newspaper boys want to see the Ministers every now and then in order to confirm or deny a story or even to create a story for them, then I think the Ministers are wrongly paid. They should not be doing that. It is not their job.

The production of News Magazine in English had to be suspended in August 1974 owing to a serious shortage of staff in the English News Editing Unit. Of the 12 posts of News editors and sub-editors in the Unit, only eight were filled at that time. Since then the position has not improved. Production of News Magazine in English will be resumed when the English Unit has a full complement of staff.

I would like to assure the Member for. Boon Lay that all the candidates selected for permanent and part-time appointments in the Department of Broadcasting are security-screened before assuming duty. Although they are all right when we employ them, we cannot guarantee that they will not do foolish things later on. Mr Harry Crabb is one of them. Mr Harry Crabb joined the Department of Broadcasting in 1960 as a temporary Broadcasting Assistant, and was promoted to Programme Assistant in 1964. He resigned from the service in 1971. Later, he was re-engaged as a part-time newsreader until July last year. I may add that good news readers are not easily found. So RTS has to engage part-time news readers. News readers will invariably become familiar to households over a period of time. However, familiarity is different from acceptability. The fact that Mr Crabb lost the elections, notwithstanding his familiar face, shows that he is not acceptable to the voters. Otherwise Pte Lau Teik Soon, the Member for Serangoon Gardens, would not be here. I think the people of Singapore are sophisticated enough not to go for familiarity or popularity of candidates, but to examine the records and achievements of a party before they cast their votes. I am, therefore, not in the least worried whether members of the opposition party are familiar faces. Indeed, familiarity without substance may even breed contempt.

The Member for Anson seems to be very impatient in seeing a Singapore culture coming into being and, indeed, I would be if I were his age. But this matter takes time. It may take years or even generations for it to take form. There is no way we can hasten it. Mao Tse-tung tried to do it when he started the cultural revolution. But look at what happened to him. His widow was discredited and the Cultural Revolution has fallen into disrepute. There is no culture and there is no revolution.

But in Singapore it is the policy of the Government to preserve the inherited Chinese, Indian, Malay and Western cultures and to give them the necessary encouragement for their harmonious development into an identifiable culture of our own. We favour no single culture but allow the blooming and interaction of all our inherited cultures so that eventually a distinctive Singapore culture will emerge. We want a hundred flowers to bloom and our only regret is that there are not so many flowers around. For him or even for me, it may be a bit slow. We may not be able to see the full bloom of its glory. But if we do the right things now, those who come after us will be able to enjoy the benefits. As the saying goes, the forefathers planted the tree, the children enjoy the shade.

We are not obsessed with the idea of forming a Western style symphony orchestra. If there are enough talents and musicians to form one and if it is within our budget to do so, we will form one. If not, we will let things lie. There is no hurry. There is no advantage in forcing something down the throats of the people if they are not ready for it. But in the meantime we have a Chinese orchestra formed by the People's Association Chinese orchestra, of which we are proud as it enjoys a large following.

On the matter of ASEAN art, music, dance and literature. I agree that steps should be taken for us to learn and appreciate more of the cultures of our ASEAN partners. It must be remembered, however, that ASEAN is only ten years old. But despite this, there have been frequent visits of artistes, painters, photographers from member-countries. Steps have already been taken at official levels, such as the ASEAN mobile art and photographic exhibition, the ASEAN exchange of radio and television artistes. exchange of radio and television programmes, the ASEAN film festival and the ASEAN literary award, to promote an awareness of the rich cultural diversities as well as similarities of member-countries.

It is incorrect for the Member to say that the Young People's Gallery has become a museum piece. From April last year to February this year seven exhibitions of students' work were organised, and these exhibitions attracted over 100,000 visitors. The hon. Member may be interested to know that for the rest of this year another six exhibitions are being planned. Besides the Young People's Gallery, the exhibitions held in the National Museum Art Gallery and the other public galleries continue to attract large numbers of young visitors. My own Ministry's open air art exhibition for the young held quarterly also provides opportunities for our young budding artists. More than 2,000 young artists have participated in these exhibitions. The on-the-spot drawing exhibition held in the Zoological Garden was also a success, attracting more than 2,000 young participants. The National Theatre Trust together with the National Theatre Club has been promoting various cultural activities. Besides maintaining a permanent art gallery at the Theatre's foyer, the National Theatre Trust organises song writing competitions, open air concerts and classes on music and dances.

Let me stress again that the evolution of a Singapore culture is a long and time-consuming process. We can encourage it but we cannot direct it in the same way that we direct economic development.

The Member for Sembawang has said that we lack artistes. Yes, we do lack artistes because there are very few people in Singapore. So we have very few artistes here. We do not have a large base of population from which to tap our talents. But in any case, if there are talents from other places, we are very glad to accept them.

Mr Ho See Beng (Khe Bong): Taiwan.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: They are not artistes. We do not consider them as artistes. They are entertainers. They come and go.

Regarding training of the staff, we do have training for the artistes in the television and radio services, but we must bear in mind that training is being undertaken by full-time staff in the Broadcasting Department who, apart from their normal duties, have to undergo this training. The training of artistes is a very time-consuming process. I do agree with the Member for Sembawang that fees for artistic services rendered on our radio and television are low when compared with other stations. But we have taken steps to revise the scales of payment and to improve certain rates. But whatever improvements that are going to be made will have to relate to the annual budget allocation for such fees; in some cases to the salary scales of permanent staff carrying out similar duties. There is provision for payment of up to $149 for a good 30 minutes of a TV drama script and $500 for an outstanding one. The crux of the matter is that the quality of the script submitted does not justify payment in excess of the $99 mentioned.

4.15 p.m.

On the development of traditional cultures, I would like to assure the Member that radio services have provided ample opportunities for cultural organisations to perform in their programmes. Even with a predominantly local nature of its production, our radio services rely very heavily on local talent. They are also given opportunities to perform on TV. From 1975 up to the present, there were 18 series of cultural programmes produced on television using local talent, and no less than 19 cultural organisations drawn from the four language streams were featured in the RTS programmes last year.

Apart from the RTS staff doing their own talent scouting, organisations are welcome to write in if they think they can contribute to radio or television programmes and those found suitable after audition will be given opportunities to perform.

The Member for Sembawang has also suggested that we should resume our old practice of producing films or newsreels for screening in cinemas. When we produced newsreels in those days, TV had not yet been introduced and the cinema then was the only visual medium within the reach of the general public. But since then, TV newsreel has made the cinema newsreel obsolete. What happens in the morning can be seen on TV in the evening. Since TV newsreel is much more effective than cinema newsreel, it seems a waste of money to continue producing newsreel for the cinemas.

Mr P. Govindaswamy rose -

The Chairman: Mr Govindaswamy. You were not here when the Minister made his reply. How can you raise your points now?

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Never mind. I was told about it. I am getting old and before I die I want to see a Singapore culture. When can we have a Singapore culture? After how many years can we form a Singapore culture? I urge the Minister to be quick about it.

Mr J. F. Conceicao (Katong): Mr Speaker, Sir, two areas where it has been feasible to stress practical cultural development has been the area of visual arts and music. With the reorganisation of the National Museum and the establishment of the Art Gallery there, encouragement for the development of the visual arts has for the time being risen to a fair level of satisfaction. The Minister has indicated with statistics that this has been so and he has described and I agree with him the extent of the activities in the sphere of development of appreciation of the arts and activity in the visual arts.

It is time to stress the ordered development of a music policy for Singapore. Sir, I speak along the lines of what I am familiar with and that is, of course, music derived from the West, but I would not like in any way to exclude music that has our own local and indigenous origin. The ground seems fruitful for music development. To serve as a base we have quite a number of musical activities organised by a fairly large number of bodies including the Ministry of Culture and its divisions, such as the National Theatre Trust and the RTS, the Ministry of Education's ECA unit, the Institute of Education, the University of Singapore. as well as private musical organisations. Orchestras in sporadic operations include the Singapore Youth Orchestra, the Singapore Schools Orchestra, the University of Singapore and, of course, the People's Association Orchestra that the Minister mentioned. Music making is quite a widespread activity and it seems to me that when the Minister spoke about the availability of appropriate numbers, perhaps if stock is taken we will find that we have reached a situation where there are appropriate numbers. But activity in the music area seems to lack overall national direction. This is perhaps because there has not been previously an adequate articulation of a policy for music. In fact, there has not been an adequate articulation of a policy for culture until perhaps the last year or so.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Until the Member for Katong's suggestion.

Mr Conceicao: I am glad that the Minister has taken note of what we have suggested, not only the Member for Katong but other Members too.

I think such a policy should aim at involving as many people as possible especially young people in the various forms of music making such as performing in orchestras, small ensembles, bands, choirs, and here of course, in relation to Asian as well as other forms of music. Secondly, the policy should aim at raising the level of music participation and performances so that, thirdly, this may contribute to the establishment of national performing bodies like the National Choral Society or even a national symphony orchestra. The development of a national symphony orchestra is without prejudice to the development of Asian instrumental groups.

Moves towards the establishment of a symphony orchestra have been aborted because of cost. The Minister has talked about cost two years ago and he still keeps talking about cost. However, it is with some imagination still possible to establish a national orchestra, on an economic basis of a core of full-time professionals plus others consisting of part-time musicians. This is not an original idea. In fact. I got this idea from the Ministry of Culture itself. The Ministry of Culture has been thinking along these tines and I am sure the Minister is aware of this.

An hon. Member: No action!

Mr Conceicao: Yes, no action. This is the point. The Minister for Culture has my sympathy in his uphill struggle to get financial support for cultural development of this kind but still the onus is defintely on his shoulders. He is the Minister for Culture. The onus is defintely on his shoulders, and I would urge him to use his powers of persuasion to get support from his Cabinet colleagues.

An hon. Member: Wrong support!

Mr Conceicao: He has got our support but apparently he has not succeeded in fully getting the support of his Cabinet colleagues and this is the point I am making.

Another point that must be brought up, and this again hinges on finance, is that an orchestra needs a place in which to practise and perform. [Interruption] If the acoustics are good and if the place is acceptable, certainly. I recognise the impracticability of asking presently for a new concert hail. This is completely out of the question, of course. But we should look into the possibility and I think it is feasible of restructuring the Victoria Memorial Hall despite the fact that that was the venue for the foundation of the Party, for the purpose of serving as a concert hall. I believe the acoustic possibilities for orchestral presentation are good and such a provision would give focus to the implementation of a music policy. I am not asking that all this should be done overnight although the Member for Anson has sounded a note of urgency. [Interruption]. Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Member for Anson should not listen to the agitation that is going on his right. I have stated yesterday that I have the highest regard for the Member for Anson.

Sir, as I said, these steps cannot be done overnight but steps towards achieving a good outcome in music development in Singapore would be quite relevant in view of definite possibilities.

I would suggest that to place a music development policy on an even firmer basis, the Ministry of Culture should cooperate very closely with the Ministry of Education as this will greatly enlarge the base in respect of those who would either participate in music making or could form an appreciative audience for such activity.

The Chairman: Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon is not here. Mr Ho See Beng.

Mr Ho See Beng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I often notice that newspapers and some publications in Singapore do not seem to have a clear picture of our nation-building policy which encompasses none other than (1) pursuit of internal security and (2) economic prosperity. These two charted courses are the major outlets for the survival of over two million people of Singapore. Yet, Sir, two of the local Chinese papers and some publications have often been found publishing workers' complaints about suppression by employers, even about abject poverty, about having no money to seek medical treatment when they fall ill. Sir, writings such as these run counter to our national policy because:

(1) they create confrontation between employers and employees, between the rich and the poor;

(2) the occasioning of employer/employee confrontation gives rise to the communist concept of class conflict in their anti-Government subversion;

(3) the presence of the concept of class conflict generates hostility between employers and employees and between the poor and the rich;

(4) consciousness of hostilities affects our internal security and deals an instant blow to our industry.

Instability at home will weaken Government's control, cause industrial unrest and result in investment and productivity sliding downhill. Sir, if we fail to maintain the foundation of a stable government, if investments do not come forward and productivity remains stagnant, our economic growth will slow down immediately. Our two million people will then lose a firm hold on their means of livelihood. This situation will then afford a good opportunity for the communists to seize power and enslave our people. Our national policy admits of no class conscious communist ideology to use our newspapers to poison our youths because this would jeopardise the security of our country and the survival of our people. It is as morbid as a poisonous rose.

4.30 p.m.

Sir, before passing this budget, I wish to raise this solemn question. Apart from issuing publication permits to the newspapers, does the Ministry of Culture ignore this kind of writing or does it prevail upon the editors to refuse to publish any more these class-conscious writings about so-called "employer/employee" and "rich/poor" confrontation? Besides, our Ministry of Labour accepts the workers' complaints against the employers. There is absolutely no oppression by employers to speak on. As for the poor having no money to seek medical treatment and having to wait for their death, this statement is even more absurd. The General Hospital gives free treatment to patients who are genuinely penniless and to those receiving public assistance. Our workers' living standard here cannot match with that of their counterparts in the United States. But compared to those in China, they are living in paradise here.

Dr Ong Leong Boon: Sir, I rise to raise a small issue. This regards the issue of permits by the Ministry of Culture for staging wayang shows, puppet shows, sing-song sessions, etc, for festivities. This is particularly relevant during the Seventh Moon Festival.

I appreciate the necessity for the Ministry of Culture to regulate these festivities by requiring them to have a permit issued for staging the show, and the attendant problems of traffic flow and noise pollution. We are familiar with the problems of the applicant who has to go through a number of stages before he could finally have a wayang show to commemorate Tua Pek Kong's birthday. We know that the applicant has to go and see his local Member of Parliament for recommendation. For one, I cannot see what relevance the Member of Parliament has got to do with Tua Pek Kong's or Kwan In's birthday. I find this quite perplexing. In the course of one year, I am sure the Member of Parliament would have to deal with something like 20 to 30 applications. Hence, the necessary recommendation. Members of Parliament too are required to say, "No" or "Yes", Quite honestly, I do not know what guidelines there are for me to say "No". I adopt the policy of saying "Yes".

The second area where the applicant has to go through is the Housing and Development Board Area Office, where I am told the Area Officer is supplied with a very well documented list of approved sites for staging of these shows. Very often we know that these approved sites are not necessarily the most suitable sites for staging these shows.

Thirdly, he has to run along to see the traffic police officer. Eventually having gone through all these obstacles, he turns up at the Ministry of Culture for the permit.

My question is, the list of approved sites has been drawn up by the Ministry of Culture. To my knowledge there was no prior consultation with the local Member of Parliament. It is obvious that some of these sites were just convenient sites, convenient to the Area Officer, convenient to some planners but without having a realistic understanding of the needs of these various temples or their followers. HDB Area Officers tend to adopt a rather inflexible attitude when it comes to approving a request for staging such shows, in spite of the fact that certain sites might be more suitable but because they do not fall within the approved list they are automatically turned down. We therefore have a situation where a temple celebrates its great occasion at one place and the wayang is staged some three or four blocks away. This reminds me of the effort by Government many years ago to clamp down the firing of crackers by insisting that everybody goes to a community centre to fire crackers, not realising the irrelevance of cracker firing at community centres and the significance of cracker-firing to the Chinese community.

May I therefore humbly suggest to the Minister that a review of the approved sites be made and this be made on the request of the local Member of Parliament, and also a more flexible attitude be adopted by the relevant authority with better understanding and that the Member of Parliament's recommendation for seeking the permit be unnecessary.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin rose -

The Chairman: Mr Hwang, do you want to say something?

Mr Hwang Soo Jin (Jalan Kayu): Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir, this is just a point of clarification. In the Minister's reply to the Member for Boon Lay, he used the expression, "The lowest of the low." I do not know exactly what he meant to imply, but I certainly loathe to think that one of our Ministers could be thinking of class distinction or class consciousness, in terms of high class or low class, especially when we are a party committed to striving for a more just and equal society, bearing in mind what the Member for Khe Bong has just said. Perhaps the Minister would care to clarify what he exactly means by "lowest of the low".

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, may I clarify the point mentioned by the Member for Jalan Kayu? When I used the phrase "lowest of the low", this is in reply to the phrase levelled at me - gao gao zai shang ( ). Since there is this description of me sitting on the top of a very high mountain, therefore, there must be somebody down at the very low base. But I do not mean that every one is low or that there is this kind of people in our society or that there is this class structure. What I mean is that we as elected Members are ordinary citizens, whether we are Ministers or Members of Parliament. We pay income tax. We are equal before the law and we drive our own car and so on. In our society actually there is no such thing as low or high class. But since there is a reference by a Member that I was sitting on the high top of a mountain, therefore I must refute this thinking that we are sitting on the "high side" and ignoring the people on the "low side". I am sorry that I have given the Member for Jalan Kayu the wrong impression but this is really in reply to what the Member for Boon Lay has said just now.

I must come back to the Member for Anson. When I made reference to his age, I did not mean any disrespect. In fact, it is an Asian custom to respect people who are old. They are supposed to be wise. I respect him for his wisdom and his wit. But I cannot promise quick action, as he said, in culture. I must say that there is no such thing as "instant culture". There is instant coffee or even instant Asia. I am sorry there is no instant culture.

We are very much concerned with the development of music, as the Member for Katong has said. But the formation of an orchestra is not just money alone. We did have an idea of starting an orchestra. In fact, on two occasions we wanted to start an orchestra but they failed very miserably. The success of an orchestra depends on many things. First, we must have the talent. We must have enough talented musicians and we must also have the audience to enjoy the music. We must also have a proper place for it to perform. We do not have all these.

The Member for Katong mentioned that we have enough musicians. I beg to differ from his opinion. Yes, we have enough musicians. We have enough pianists and enough violinists, because when parents send their children for music education they seem to prefer the violin or the piano. But an orchestra is not just formed by pianists and violinists alone. There must be many other kinds of musicians in an orchestra to make the music pleasant.

As regards conversion of the Victoria Memorial Hall into a concert hall, I do not know whether it is possible. Apart from the fact that it is the site of the first meeting of the PAP, it means that it is a monument of historical interest and therefore it should be preserved. But my own view is that converting the Victoria Memorial Hall into a concert hall may pose many problems. I do not know whether or not the acoustics there is a problem, but I am sure it is very expensive to carry out such a conversion. It may well be cheaper to build a new concert hall somewhere else instead of converting the Victoria Memorial Hall.

The Member for Khe Bong is annoyed that some people write irresponsible letters to the press when they want something done. I must inform the Member that we are not in the habit of calling up newspaper editors and telling them what they can or cannot do or print. My Ministry cannot be responsible for what the press publishes. It will also be difficult for us to keep tab on all the articles that appear in our newspapers. My Ministry will only intervene in cases of distorted reporting on sensitive issues. Newspapers which indulge in reporting which subsequently proves to be inaccurate, false or misleading, are acting irresponsibly. If they persist in doing so, they are creating a credibility gap between themselves and their readers, and it is up to them to answer their readers. But I do not want to go into the question of class struggle again with the Member for Khe Bong. Do we ignore this kind of writing in the press? No, we do not ignore them. We monitor them. We know what is going on.

4.45 p.m.

It may be interesting to some of the Members here but I must say that this is one way the communists try to create public opinion. When I was young, I used to do this kind of thing. I used to write many letters, not just one, to the press to create a public opinion in order to prepare the masses for a revolution. But those were days long gone by. But I can see that the present generation of letter writers to newspapers are not many and they are also a bit childish. As we monitor them, we know what they are doing and we would take note of them and deal with them when the time comes. But to call them up whenever there is a nasty letter appearing in the press would not help solve anything.

On the question of wayang sites raised by the Member for Kim Seng. I would like to inform the House that the list of approved wayang sites was drawn up in conjunction with the Police and the Housing and Development Board in 1975 in an effort to reduce noise pollution and traffic congestion that is often associated with the staging of wayangs. This list is constantly being revised, and there are at present 693 approved sites on the list.

The Member for Kim Seng may wish to know that my Ministry has all along been sympathetic in considering applications for wayang licences. On a number of occasions wayangs are allowed to be staged at sites not on the approved list, provided special arrangements can be made by the organisers to reduce noise pollution and traffic congestion. As the Housing and Development Board is the competent authority to comment on the suitability of wa yang sites in its estates, it is only logical for my Ministry to refer such applications to them for consideration. But in many instances we are faced with the choice of whether to please the residents in the housing estates or to please the wayang organisers or the Tua Pek Kong. I am sure the Member will agree with me that when it comes to a decision of this sort, it is obvious that we should let the residents have as much peaceful sleep as possible and leave the Tua Pek Kong alone.

It has been the practice to seek the consent of the owner of a site before a wa yang licence is issued. In the case of housing estates, since the Housing Board is the owner, it is only appropriate that we should seek the consent of the Housing Board before a licence is issued. How would the Member feel if I were to issue a licence to hold a wayang in his garden without his permission?

On the need to go to an MP for approval. I think it is wrong to say that whenever an applicant wants a wayang licence, he must go to the MP. I think what happens is that when his application is turned down, he goes to the MP. Like any other applications which are turned down, whether it is for a wayang licence or any other licence, the applicant will normally go straight to his MP. In fact, there is no necessity for the MP to approve the wayang site. But in some cases, an MP writes in to recommend that a certain site be approved for a wayang because, in his capacity as MP of that constituency, he is more familiar with the site and that he would be able to tell whether or not the wayang there would cause noise pollution to the residents. So in this respect the MP's recommendations are also taken into consideration.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, when I said "quick action", I mean that it will take them 10 years. The Minister replied that he cannot promise quick action. When I say "quick" it means he will take another 10 years. That is what I mean.

Dr Ong Leong Boon: Sir,I rise to inform the Minister that he is mistaken because this is the experience of all MPs in Housing Board estates. Their recommendation is a must before permission is granted by the HDB Area Office for the staging of such shows.

His second point is exactly the point I was trying to put forward: that the Ministry of Culture refers the matter to the Housing and Development Board Area Office. The Area Office tells me that they are quite happy to issue permits for certain sites but these sites are not on the list of approved sites for staging the shows. So it is a case of the Ministry of Culture passing the buck to the HDB and the HDB passing the buck back to the Ministry. I do not know who is right and who is wrong. Perhaps the Minister might like to explain.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: May I just deal with the problem of wayang sites again. When an application is made for a wayang to be held on an approved site, nobody bothers about getting any approval from the MP or the Housing and Development Board, because it will normally be approved. The problem arises only when the wayang organiser wants the wayang to be held somewhere other than an approved site, say, somewhere in front of a house or next to a certain block of building. In such a case the consent of the residents must be sought. Otherwise the MP himself will be in trouble because if the wayang causes disturbance to the residents living in the block of flats or nearby, then they will complain to the MP. So to respect the rights of these residents, it is always our practice to consult either the MP or the Housing Board officials because they are the people who would know whether or not the wayang to be staged on a certain site would cause a disturbance to the residents. Therefore, in these cases we must ensure that the residents are not seriously disturbed by these wayangs.

Mr Cheong Yuen Chee (Toa Payoh): Sir, just a point of clarification. I would like to confirm what the Member for Kim Seng has said. It is quite customary for MPs to give approval before a permit is given, for one very important reason, i.e. I think many people who organise these wayangs are non-residents. Some of them are professionals. They strike up a deal with the residents, shopkeepers or hawkers and say, "All right, we will organise a wayang show. but how much will we get as a matter of profit?" To eliminate this malpractice, invariably the HDB Area Officers always ask for the MP's recommendation before official approval is given.

Mr Conceicao: Just to clarify. Sir. When I talk of a music policy, of course the development of different types of musicians would be part of this policy. We need not have an orchestra of 101 pianos or things like that. I mentioned that we wanted to raise the level of musical ability. May I point out that there are so many school bands in Singapore. We certainly cannot get a person who is playing in a school band to play in an orchestra, but we can pick out the good ones. And this is part of a music policy: to encourage the good ones and award them scholarships to develop their talents in different instruments and then put them in an orchestra. I think we want the Education Ministry to act in concert with the Ministry of Culture so that this kind of orchestration may lead to the kind of orchestra I was talking about.

Regarding Victoria Memorial Hall, perhaps instead of just dismissing the suggestion, the Ministry should find out whether it is feasible to convert it into a concert hall as it may be cheaper than spending $10 million to $15 million on an entirely new place for a concert hall.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, in answer to the Member for Toa Payoh, it is not a matter of passing the buck. We do not pass the buck to the MP. In fact, we respect the rights of the MP. If the residents in his constituency are disturbed, they would normally complain to him. Therefore, we have to ask the MP's opinion whether we should allow the wayang to be staged on the site applied for. If the MP thinks that the residents would be disturbed, then he would say "No". But if he thinks that it would not disturb the residents, then he would say "Yes". I hope that can satisfy both parties.

On Victoria Memorial Hall, we are - not dismissing the idea from the Member for Katong. I was only saying that in my opinion it is probably cheaper to build a new one. Of course, I will ask my officials to find out what is the cost and whether it is feasible to convert it into a concert hall.

The orchestra, as I have said, is not just a matter of money and the need for an audience. Our "Music for Everyone" series is doing just that - to create an audience so as to make our people attuned to this kind of music. But there is always the problem as to what sort of music should be promoted because if we promote the wrong music it will not enjoy the support of the people. In many instances, we found that the Chinese orchestra is a more popular one. Because of that, do we have to spend all our money on developing a Chinese orchestra? These are the problems that are troubling us, and I think they are not very easy problems. With all the help from the Member for Katong and others interested, we will try to solve them.

Mr Ngeow Pack Hua: (In Mandarin): Sir, although I am not happy with the reply given by the Minister, the reply given to the Member for Khe Bong is quite satisfactory. So I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: I propose to take the Suspension now.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order. I suspend the Sitting and shall take the Chair again at 5.30 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.59 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.30 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head Q (cont.) -

Mr Lai Tha Chai (Henderson): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1101.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in the debate just now the Member for Boon Lay and the Member for Khe Bong spoke on newspapers. I would like to say a few words. I sympathise with the Minister for Culture. We know that Culture is not an easy responsibility. As "half a newspaper man". I understand this problem. I know that in an open society it is easy to be influenced by others but not easy to influence them. No matter what we say, no matter what we do, the Minister for Culture is always blamed for it. So we can expect further blame put on him in future.

Everyday when I read the two different newspapers in two languages, I get two kinds of feeling. The Chinese paper gives me one feeling and the English paper gives me another. Recently an English newspaper carried many pages of writing about a multimillionaire, how he tackled a film star and how he came to acquire wealth. The Chinese newspaper on the other hand talked about social problems and traditional virtues such as respect for the old. So in my mind, I have two contradictory ideals. If this were allowed to go on without checking our society we will have a lot of trouble.

The Minister for Culture intends to amend the Newspaper and Printing Presses Act. I do not agree with the Member for Boon Lay that it would adversely affect the newspapers.

Mr Ngeow Pack Hua: (In Mandarin): On a point of clarification, Sir,I did not say that the amendment would adversely affect the newspapers.

Mr Lai Tha Chai: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I take back what I have just said. But the principle of amending this Newspaper and Printing Presses Act is to forbid anyone to hold more than 3% shares in any newspaper. That is to say, unless there are 17 people in the family and all the 17 people have 3% shares each in the same newspaper, this family will not be able to control the newspaper. What I want to point out is that the Minister for Culture should consider whether this will actually achieve the aim because other than the question of newspaper bosses controlling the newspaper, some journalists with ulterior motives could also write anything in any newspaper or publication here or abroad influencing thousands of people. Our Minister for Culture has just mentioned that these journalists could write all sorts of articles. We can control them internally but if they write in the foreign newspapers what can we do? Recently, some people were detained by the Internal Security Department. Some of them belong to this category of journalists. Some of them have the same ideology as their bosses and they could be under the instructions of the bosses. But some others actually acted contrary to the instructions of their bosses and they might be infiltrators. I would like to point out that while the original 1974 Newspaper and Printing Presses Act could not make the newspapers abide Government's policies, even with the amendment I doubt whether it could achieve the desired aim.

Just now some Members of Parliament, including the Member for Boon Lay have commented on the work of the RTS in diverse manner. I feel that when the workers in the RTS produce programmes, they usually copy what the Westerners are doing. What I mean is this. The foreign professional artistes can perform better than some of our amateurs. For example, programmes like "Enjoy Yourself" and "Under The Same Roof" are Cantonese films which are imported are quite popular, of course. So our TV producers tend to copy and they produce films like "Chinese Variety Show" and "The $50,000 Question". These programmes are in Chinese. When we compare locally produced programmes with the imported ones, we feel "dead", "angry", or "our domestic flowers are not as fragrant as the wild flowers". Some Members of Parliament have remarked that we should not pick the wild flowers. Some people like the "Guthrie Hour". This programme is all right. Of course, this could be better than some of the other programmes produced locally. I do not know whether the other Members of Parliament agree with me on this point.

Another point is this. When considering these points, the Ministry of Culture should "look at the major points and work from the minor points", in the promotion of various cultural activities. Take, for example, our annual Chingay procession. I do not understand what it means. Why is it not called the Zhuang Yi procession" or some other transliteration instead of Chingay procession? This is a far cry from the correct tenor of our Minister for Culture when he stated last month in this House that we have to "remove the weeds to preserve the essence". Then, to keep alive these old traditional things might not be too good for us.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have already stated in my speech during the debate on the Presidential Address that we are not seeking further control of the press. The object of the proposed amendment is not to control the press but to redefine the ownership of newspapers so that no single family or a single minor group can own a newspaper.

The problem with the press is not whether or not we should control it. In fact, we do not want to control the press. We want it to be a free and responsible press. But we have to be constantly alert so that no communists or pro-communists can infiltrate into the press and make use of it to disseminate communist propaganda. No matter what we do or no matter what law we pass, it can never be perfect and, therefore, we have to be alert. We have to monitor the kind of articles that is being published in the newspapers in order to get an account of what the situation is with the press, and I think we are doing just that. We know what the press is doing and how it is being operated. But I think it is wrong to say that we seek further control of the press.

On the question of TV programmes, the Member for Henderson said that we are lavishly copying the foreign productions from Hong Kong and Taiwan. This is not true because when we produce our own programmes we normally have our own local artistes and local writers to write out the scripts. However, the form may be similar to those programmes which we import from abroad. But then TV programmes are more or less the same, whether they are produced in Taiwan, Hong Kong or even in Singapore. A great number of these programmes that we acquire from Taiwan or from Hong Kong are mainly of an historical interest. For instance, the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and the Rise of the Tang Dynasty are of historical interest. I think it would give our people a very good opportunity to learn about the history of China, or for that matter the history of other countries, if we are able to get those programmes.

It is not possible for us as yet to achieve the same standard of production as the foreign programme as the funds and the number of professional script writers and artistes is greater in Hong Kong and Taiwan. They even pay more for the production. As a result the standard of local production is not as good as that in Hong Hong and Taiwan. But surely the Member for Henderson is not suggesting that we should therefore stop producing dramas or that even if we continue to produce dramas which are directly related to our milieu and reflect our values, aspirations, and problems, we should never produce them in this form. I think we are trying to produce these programmes in the best way we can. I can assure him that we are not really copying or lavishly imitating what the foreign artistes are doing.

5.45 p.m.

The word "Chingay" is a transliteration of the Chinese characters zhuang yi ( ) in the Hokkien dialect. Zhuang means "makeup, hua zhuang ( ). Yi ( ) means "art". So translated literally, it means the art of making-up. In fact, this procession is to commemorate a festival which originated in Penang. One authoritative definition of Chingay is that it is a sort of a carriage borne on the shoulders of men. It is a gorgeous representation of some historical scene. This Chingay procession is a religious-cum-secular festival originally held in Penang, usually in the middle of every first lunar calendar month dating back to the second half of the last century. As time goes on the occasion became more and more festive in nature. Eventually items in the procession included giant triangular flags, colourful lanterns and banners, musical bands, decorative floats, stilt walkers, troupes and so on.

The Member is not happy that the three Chinese legendary figures Fu Lu Shou are being presented in Chingay. I do not agree with him that this is feudalistic in nature. What is the meaning of Fu Lu Shou ( )?. Fu means good living, presumably. Xin guang ti pan ( ) that means "a very broad waist". But I do not think that that is a good thing nowadays. Lu is good opportunity in life. Shou is "long life". Now, what is wrong with having all these?

Mr Conceicao: Nothing.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: In fact, it is a kind of symbol everyone would aspire to. In fact, this is what all good governments should be - to provide the people with good life, good opportunity in life, jobs, and long life, health. This is what a good government should be. And what is wrong in projecting these three legendary figures even though they may be very old custom? This is exactly the kind of tradition we want to preserve. We want to symbolise this sort of aspiration. These are very effective symbols, and I think it is worthwhile having them.

Mr Lai Tha Chai: Sir, a point of clarification. I only spoke on Lu - Fu Lu Shou. Lu is not so simple as mentioned by the Minister. If he refers to the Chinese dictionary, he may go deeper and find that it describes a man too ambitious for powers, for a higher position. Well, basically I am saying whether we want to copy the right things from foreign countries and discard the bad things. Like the word Chingay, if the Minister agrees that Chingay is right, well, it is up to the Minister to decide. But if the Minister says, "Better correct it to Zhuang Yi procession" or some other transliteration, it is up to the Ministry of Culture to decide.

Sir, in view of this I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Cheong Yuen Chee: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BAA 1101.

Sir, the Member for Sembawang has just raised a point on the production of documentaries for screening in our cinemas and the Hon. Minister has replied that it is not considered. However, we must recognise that there is a constant need to promote and develop national consciousness among our citizens, particularly our young, through the mass media like TV. Documentary films or newsreels depicting our national development, health and safety measures, educational and cultural activities, are from time to time shown on TV. But all of us know that TV programmes are screened at fixed times, and these times may not be convenient for all home viewers to tune in to. Or on the other hand, if the titles are not sufficiently attractive enough, viewers could miss a good programme.

5.53 p.m.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Cheong Yuen Chee: In order to reach a wider audience and also at the same time to achieve good impact, may I suggest that the Ministry of Culture make it compulsory for cinemas to screen such documentaries and newsreels that are from time to time made available by RTS. After all, most of the cinemas, or I should say all of them, do screen documentaries and newsreels from foreign countries which in some cases have no relevance to Singapore at all. With the revenue thus collected from these documentaries and newsreels, perhaps the Ministry of Culture could further develop and expand its publicity services to cater to the needs of our young citizens.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir,I beg to differ from the Member for Toa Payoh that the cinema reaches a wider audience. In fact, I think it is the other way round. Television and radio together would reach a far wider audience than the cinema. The number of TV licences 31st December, 1976 309,276, and an estimated number of 940,000 viewers watch television on any one night. Moreover. 70% of the population tune in daily to radio broadcasts. Thus television and radio have become the most effective means through which publicity programmes can be transmitted. So when the documentaries are screened on television, I think at any one time we would be able to reach the majority of the people. Also if it does not reach them at all, the documentaries that we produce which are meaningful and of good value are usually repeated. So the chances of the audience or the people missing them are actually very small.

I do not think it is possible to make it compulsory for the cinemas to show the newsreels or documentaries produced by RTS because the RTS produce only 16 mm films. All the cinemas are screening 35 mm films, so it is not possible for them to screen the 16 mm films made available by RTS. If we do not produce 35 mm films for our documentaries, it is not possible for us to compel the cinemas to screen them.

As I have already stated in my reply to the Member for Sembawang, since television has already taken over this function, I think it is more economical to let the RTS handle this.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I do not quite agree with what the Minister has said - that since we have TV newsreels, there is no need for the cinemas to screen newsreels and documentary films. My point is that the TV audience and the cinema audience are quite different. The films screened in the cinemas, because they are 35 mm films, will leave a deeper impression on the audience. As regards the TV, most of the people may not bother to watch these programmes. They are interested in feature films. If we screen or telecast some local documentary films, many of them will not watch such programmes. Therefore, if these documentaries are screened in the cinemas, then the people will be more aware of the developments going on in Singapore.

Mr Cheong Yuen Chee: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would just like to reply to one point raised by the Minister. He has given some statistics on the number of TV licences and so on. One of the points he has missed is this. Whatever documentaries or newsreels we produce, a lot depends on the title. If the title is unattractive enough for the home audience, they will not tune in. For instance, whenever TV news or a documentary comes on, some families just switch off and wait for the next feature programme. I do not think he can base his argument on the number of TV sets owned by the people.

As mentioned by the Member for Sembawang, if these documentaries are shown in the cinemas, there is a ready audience and the impact is very much greater. But I accept the Minister's explanation that the size of the film matters in producing documentaries and newsreels. In so doing, I would like to beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CAA 1101* (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Ahmad Haleem and Ch'ng Jit Koon).

Sir, it is encouraging to learn that there will be more colour TV programmes in the near future. However, the chief complaint from almost every viewer of popular English programmes is the indiscriminate manner in which the advertisements are inserted between the programmes. One or two is tolerable, but more than 10 is unthinkable. And most of the time the advertisements are inserted during an important or exciting part of the story. Most probably the Minister may say that it is for revenue purposes. Yes, I accept that. But the advertisements should be screened before or after a programme.

It is not only irritating but reduces the enjoyment of a programme. I would therefore strongly suggest that advertisements be screened before or after a programme or once during a programme.

6.00 p.m.

If RTS says that we are better off in this respect compared to other countries, then I think they may not be right because other countries have two stations, that is, commercial and national. There should not be too many commercial advertisements in our TV programmes.

Sir, the Tamil section of RTS still leaves much to be desired. The Tamil films are still shown on two different days at a late hour instead of one single day. The excuse that Tamil films are too long to be shown on a single day is a lame one. Further, to aggravate the situation, there seems to be no punctuality in screening times. Sometimes the films are screened as late as 15 minutes past the stated time. I thought RTS possess a crystal clock.

I brought up this matter during the last Budget debate. I am very fed up about this. Somebody shouts at the sun. What is the use of shouting at the sun? The sun does not care. The one who shouts will suffer. Although I bring this matter up at every session of the Budget debate, no action has been taken. I feel that the Minister has got no power. On paper he has the power but not in action. There must be somebody in the RTS who is victimising the Tamil programmes. Somebody must look into this matter. Maybe some officers need to be called up to pull up their socks.

The children's programmes are insipid as one can think of. The viewers are tired of seeing the same scene of children gathering round an adult and following the same rigmarole. Cannot the producers be more imaginative? Perhaps some of the imported programmes could be a guide for producing more creative programmes.

Sir, it appears that there is no outdoor shooting for Tamil colour TV programmes as we have for the other language programmes. Why is this so? Why must RTS be victimising the Tamil programme? I cannot understand. After all the Tamil people are also paying Income Tax and paying the same amount of licence fees.

Again the shooting of Tamil programmes is done mostly during the weekdays. And on Sundays the studios are not made available for the shooting of Tamil programmes because the other groups are using the studios. If the studios cannot be used on Sundays. then how can the Tamil section get the artistes who may be available only on Sundays because of the nature of their work? If this goes on, the Tamil section will never progress.

Sir, I would also like to know what method is used in the selection of singers for the Tamil programmes. It seems that during auditioning there is no band present and the selection is made at the whims and fancies of the auditioners. Thus when the artistes are selected and when they are actually performing the accompanying band at times finds difficulty in following the artistes who had been auditioned without a band.

It is no wonder that the standard of production of Tamil programmes is so poor. Something must be done to encourage better quality programmes for the Tamil Section.

Finally. Sir, there is a lot of emphasis on bilingualism by the Education Ministry. Why not introduce some programmes on TV in the later part of the evening to cater for working adults? Then we will be educating a nation of youngsters and adults together.

Another matter is that when you tune to the Tamil radio wave band you cannot get the Tamil programme. All over Singapore the radio broadcast in Tamil is very poor. That is also a form of victimisation! When the Tamil people tune to the Tamil section, they cannot get the programme. The broadcasting section in the Tamil network is very poor. All the time we are fighting with the RTS and, therefore, the RTS purposely do this. This is because the Minister has no power. Let us see what happens to what I speak here today. Tomorrow you will see the result. They will still `victimise' the Tamil programme.

Mr Ahmad Haleem (Telok Blangah): Sir, I would like to draw the Minister's attention to the use presently made of the intervals between television programmes which are not taken up with advertising commercials. Usually this interval time is about one or two minutes' duration during which nobody wants to advertise. This interval is normally filled in with films on fishes, flowers or girls singing songs of Singapore. That is all right. But if you keep on seeing it four times a day, it becomes monotonous.

I suggest that to stimulate interest - the Member for Toa Payoh said there was no attraction to coming programmes - the RTS make a 10 or 15-second extract of the programmes that are to be shown later in the evening, the next day or the next week. This is just like the Akan Datang in the cinema. In this way it will stimulate interest. The title of a programme might not appear to be very interesting, but if the TV could show something interesting in Akan Datang more people might watch the programme. And if advertisers think that more people will watch the programme, they will want to advertise, and therefore there is more revenue for the RTS. Maybe the Tamil programme might then not be so badly victimised. There will be more money and the local TV production might benefit from this.

Apart from the extracts, I think the RTS could show more filmlets. I think they do a very good job with the "Save Water" campaign where we see Bobo, the elephant, saving water. The same thing could be done for the campaign against drugs. We also have the police campaigns such as "Don't road hog" and "Keep in lane". But what does "Don't road hog" mean? RTS could make a 10 or 20-second filmlet to show what road hogging means. For 15 seconds you can do a filmlet. But there seems to be no such shows of an educational value for our people.

They could also use it as a public service. If there is an announcement for a public service, the RTS could put it down on a piece of card and screen it over the TV. But there is nothing on this. Nobody shows any interest. Nobody reads and nobody does anything about it. If they can have a little film to show the people that there is a cultural show coming up, a quick, little excerpt of one or two scenes from the show will create a little interest. All this could be done by RTS. I am sure it will be very well received by the public.

I would now like to come to the presentation of news and newsreel. There has been some improvement in the presentation but it still leaves a lot to be desired. They seem to be bankrupt of ideas of presenting the news. You can switch off the TV and listen to the news on radio; it is just the same. All you see on TV is the news reader reading, looking down, now looking up, and quickly looking down again. The news presentation over television should be better than what we get from the radio. If it is the same as on radio, we might as well not have news presentation over TV. They need only say. "For news, please tune in to Radio Singapore." Then the film clips. When they say something about a news item, use the film clip. We do not want to see the same stuff all the time. We have a situation where if something is happening in the Middle East or in a town in Thailand, for example. 140 km out of Bangkok, out comes a map of Thailand, but it shows "Bangkok". But where is this town that is 140 km away from Bangkok? Nobody knows. It just shows a map of Thailand. Where is Bangkok? What is the point? They might as well not show the map. Nobody knows. If they want to show something, then show exactly where it is. Show an arrow pointing to the town and say. "This is the town of Chulat" or whatever it is. Then we will know. If they just want to show Thailand, they might just as well forget it.

Sometimes when listening to a news item, the news reader reads about one topic and in the same breath he or she continues with the next topic, and I say to myself, "What relevance has this item got to the first one?" Suddenly I realise that he or she is on the next news item. Maybe an educational programme or a training could be given. After every topic he or she should wait two or three seconds, and then carry on.

Another matter is that the news readers look as though they have just returned from a funeral. There is no smile. They should at least put on a smile. If it is a sombre piece of news, he looks sombre, and if it is a happy news he looks happy. At the end of the programme he says, "That is all for the news tonight. Good night." And smile. But they do not do such a thing. They look as if they are zombies.

One last point, Sir, We have this background music. Do not tell me that we have no talent on background music. I think it is not a question of talent but just a simple question of laziness. In every newsreel someone just picks up an LP and just change from one music to another with no regard to what is being shown. I once saw a newsreel showing the tragedy of an earthquake, and the background music was like cowboys fighting with the Red Indians. One day my family was watching a Malay drama programme, and I was speaking to my grandmother. I was there and I was listening. It was a Malay drama programme. It was not a sad programme. Neither was it a happy programme. It was just a normal scene. The background music was "Jesus Christ Superstar!" This is a Malay programme. The music has no relevance at all. It seems that somebody just picked up a musical record from the library and just played. He did not care what music ought to go with the programme. If they want to make a programme interesting, the background music should create the right atmosphere. There is no atmosphere at all to the local Malay drama programmes. That is probably one of the reasons why local production has failed. One does not anyhow play any music he likes. I hope the Minister will look into this, and it does not cost very much to make an improvement. I do hope the improvements will be evident.

6.15 p.m.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong (Moulmein): Sir, RTS and the National Theatre Trust occasionally run song-writing competitions. The winning entries are occasionally played over TV Singapore as interludes. This is very commendable.

They say songs sometimes cheer our hearts - if they are lively. Some songs make us feel romantic - if they are love songs. Songs also touch our hearts - if they are sad songs. Songs can arouse feelings of patriotism and strengthen our unity as a nation - if the music is stirring and the words express adequately our aspirations and national pride.

In other countries, people have national songs or folk songs that unite them. Whether it be in time of war or peace, in the battle field or in the cafes, they sing these songs with such gusto and feeling and feel good after that.

In Singapore, because we are a multicultural society with a comparatively short history, we have so far few songs that we can call our very own. As a result, whether it is a group of national servicemen, youth groups of the People's Association or groups of trade unionists, when they sing, they sing songs from other lands that have no significance or relevance to us. These songs may help them let off their steam and exuberance, but they certainly do not stir their hearts and spirit as one united people, as proud Singaporeans.

Therefore, song writing competitions should be encouraged. The winning entries should not only be played over TV Singapore as interludes, but also be distributed to schools, national servicemen, youth groups, trade unionists, etc, and all should be encouraged to sing, so that a time will come when all Singaporeans will have in common, Singapore songs to sing.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: May I begin with a reply to the Member for Anson's first query regarding advertisements on television by setting the matter in perspective? The TV Commercial Service was inaugurated in January 1964. The rationale for it was explicitly stated by my predecessor, now the Foreign Minister, in his speech at the inauguration ceremony. Of the three ways of financing television, television advertising was considered by my predecessor to be the only practical and relatively painless way of financing television without making undue demands on the pockets of the viewer or of the taxpayer. The position still holds good today.

TV commercials are not indiscriminately inserted into programmes. Almost all of the entertainment programmes that are acquired by RTS have, in fact, built-in commercial breaks or junctures designed by overseas producers of the programmes themselves. We do not make the breaks. The breaks were already there in the films, Maybe the commercial comes in during an exciting moment but it is already there. We do not put it there. Naturally, when the producer makes his film, he wants the viewers to watch the commercials during a very exciting scene.

A one-hour programme has normally about six such built-in breaks for the insertion of TV advertisements. In a half-hour programme. RTS works on a maximum of two such breaks for advertisement and not more than 7-8% of the total weekly transmission time is given to commercials or advertisements. This compares to the 17% to 25% devoted to commercials in the case of other stations. If he thinks that we have too many commercials, he should take a look at the other stations. I should refer him to an article in Sunday, 6th March, 1977. It is entitled "Where TV is really commercial", and I quote:-

"Bangkok: In most countries when a commercial interrupts a television programme the viewer has time to whip out to the kitchen and grab a cold beer.

In Thailand, he has time for a shower. Often, he can also take a shampoo. And still have time to go for that beer."

It went on to say that a viewer with a stopwatch timed a show "The Six Million Dollar Man" and he found that the show ran for about 48 minutes but the commercials went on to about 35 minutes. And there was a boxing show. The whole of the boxing show came to only 45 minutes but there were 63 minutes of commercials in that 45 minutes of boxing. That is really commerical TV that you find in other stations.

As I have stated in this House last month, no commercials or advertisements are allowed in the News and in informational and educational programmes, although commercial interest or inquiries have been made in this direction. As for the commercials being inserted only before or after or in-between programmes, I think the advertisers have to be given some measure of return in terms of the money they spend on TV advertisements. This would be an assurance that there are viewers to watch their advertisements when they come on. It is no use having it at the beginning or at the end when TV viewers just disappear after the programme.

The Member for Anson seems to have a kind of complex that he is being victimised. I can assure him that this is not the case. I am not a person who would like to victimise anyone, least of all our Tamil friends. He was talking about the lack of Tamil films or that a Tamil film is broken up into two parts. But the problem is this. The average length of a Tamil film is always very long, sometimes 2 1/2 hours running and sometimes three hours or four hours. If we were to show the Tamil film in a single evening, then there would be no other shows except that Tamil film. This will be unfair, and we would be victimising other viewers. If we continue to do this we may even antagonise other viewers.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, on a point of clarification. Tamil films are usually shown late in the night. Although the film lasts 2 1/2 hours or 3 hours many parts are being cut. So the full film is not being shown. There are some parts which are cut, e.g. where songs are sung. We are not victimising the other viewers. When a programme is fixed for 10 o'clock it must be shown at 10 o'clock. If it is scheduled for 10.15 then it must be 10.15. But when it is fixed for 10 o'clock it is not shown until 10.20 or 10.30. What is the RTS doing?

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: I will come to this point about punctuality. Punctuality is given very great importance by RTS. Where programmes are delayed, normally it is because of special reports or Parliamentary reports which affect the starting time of the programmes that follow. Sometimes Parliament sits but in the case of the last President's Address. Parliament sittings were extended for two days. There was no prior planning for this because the RTS schedule is normally fixed two weeks ahead.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, I am not talking about the President's Speech or Parliament sittings. During week days when there are no Parliament sittings. I notice that for the last two programmes although it was fixed for 10 o'clock it did not start until 10.15 or 10.20. I am not objecting to the Parliamentary report.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, I am only just quoting this as an example. It is not only just the Parliamentary report. There may be some other show which comes up unexpectedly, for instance, a football match or a more exciting show. This has to be inserted apart from the normal schedule and, therefore, the timing is upset. But such changes, whenever possible, are always conveyed to the press for reflecting in the day's schedule. And if the changes cannot be conveyed to the press in time they will always be publicised on TV as often as possible. We try very much to keep our programmes on time but sometimes it goes beyond our control and we have to go beyond the scheduled time. I can assure the Member for Anson that this is no victimisation. This is purely because something crops up apart from the normal schedule.

In reply to his criticism on a lack of outdoor shooting facilities for Tamil programmes, I must point out that outdoor filming facilities are limited. So priority is given to news coverages and documentary films, The materials shot are then used in news and newsreel and documentary films produced in all the four languages, including Tamil. A news magazine in Tamil, mainly made up of film materials shot on outside location, is also produced monthly. There is, therefore, no question of discrimination or victimisation at all. It is inevitable that most productions, irrespective of languages, have to be carried out on week days as there is only one Saturday and one Sunday per week. We cannot make it any more.

The convenience of artistes is taken into consideration as far as possible in scheduling the recording dates of programmes. Children's programmes and family magazines in Tamil are, for example, sometimes shot on a Saturday afternoon or on a Sunday. For other types of TV productions in Tamil, we often go out of our way to arrange for recordings in the evenings on week days whenever artistes are unable to come in the day. Apart from the above, it is to be noted that the production crew in our studios are entitled to have at least one rest day per month, either on a Saturday or on a Sunday. So therefore there are even fewer Saturdays and Sundays to go round.

6.30 p.m.

Singers for Tamil programmes are selected and auditioned by a panel of three judges. A singer is tested and auditioned basically for voice quality and ability to sing with the required tone, rhythm and correct pronunciation, and therefore there is no need for a band to accompany the singer. However, before a programme is recorded, the singer is given ample time to practise with the band during rehearsals at the studios. The quality of all the programmes depends very much on the standard of available artistes, including singers.

The suggestion from the Member for Telok Blangah that RTS should utilise some of the interlude time to show trailers or excerpts of forthcoming programmes is a good one. In fact, this is being done on a modest scale through slides and announcements of outstanding entertainment programmes or other special events. To prepare trailers on a more elaborate scale which he has in mind would require more production and technical efforts and facilities which are not available at present. Attempts during the last two financial years to obtain two posts to back-up and improve our present TV gathering and presentation units were rejected. Until such time as the necessary staff are provided, the present modest methods of advance publicity will have to continue. In any case, we will try to vary and improve these interludes.

I agree with the Member that the effect which simple traffic slogans or other subjects have on TV viewers might be limited. However, when these are combined with other media, the total impact can be considerable, The RTS is at present planning a series of 13 programmes in all languages. dealing with road safety, including lane discipline. These will be telecast sometime between June and August this year in support of the lane discipline campaign.

I also agree with him that our news reading should be more visualised. In fact, this is being done on TV. Therefore, during a Parliamentary report if the name of a Member is mentioned his picture will appear on the screen. But the normal practice of using map graphic is to pinpoint the cities or towns mentioned in the news. This is not possible for a very small village or town which cannot be located in the atlas. But this difficulty is overcome by resorting to the use of a cross to indicate the last location in relation to a better known city or town. At other times the RTS have used arrows to pinpoint locations.

Now, background music for the news. Regarding news items, sometimes the time factor has to be considered. When an important newsreel comes into the hands of our producers they always like to show it on the screen as quickly as possible. In some cases it may not be possible for them to locate the appropriate music to accompany the newsreel. But in any case, I think the suggestion is a good one and our producers will look more closely into this matter.

The Member for Moulmein has spoken on song writing competition. We are doing our best to popularise songs composed by Singaporeans for song writing competition. I believe these songs will help develop our national identity and instil a sense of patriotism in our young people. We are asking the Ministry of Education, the People's Association, the SAF Drama and Music Company and the Institute of Education to popularise these songs. Moreover, these songs will shortly be printed in a booklet for distribution to schools and organisations. In fact, a local music school has been using some of these songs for teaching and examination purposes. However, given some time we should be able to build up a repertoire of local music and songs. But we should remember that great songs of the various countries were not written overnight. Very often they were written by unknown writers and because they reflected the common experience and aspirations of a people they became popular and handed down from generation to generation.

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi (Kampong Kembangan): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would be grateful if the Minister could give some clarification, particularly, on the points raised by the Member for Telok Blangah. I think the hon. Member has raised very relevant points regarding the reading of news over television. I am sure most of us would agree that RTS could still improve on the format of news presentation over television. I was thinking, for example, that we could encourage the telecasting of opinions on major news items, Perhaps, there could be short telecasts of discussions on a particular point by local notables. It is not a debate. The idea of news presentation is not just to say that something has happened. If the RTS could try to telecast short excerpts of opinions on a particular item, it would be educational and more than just a factual report.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: There are newsreels.

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi: Newsreels are a separate matter. I have also been considering for some time why RTS needs to always summarise the news items before the news begin and then make a further summary at the end of the news. I do not know the rationale for this. If the Minister could consider reviewing this we could save a few seconds.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Member for Kampong Kembangan has made some very good suggestions. But regarding the telecasting of opinions by people to accompany the news, the problem is whether we can get the people to come forward to give their opinions. Local people are reticent on matters concerning local affairs. In many cases it is not possible for us to get the right type of people to come forward to give their opinions. Especially during a news telecast, when the news of the morning or the day has to be read in the evening, it is not easy to find immediately the persons belonging to the relevant discipline or people who have something to say about a certain subject to come forward and give their opinions on that subject which is about to be telecast in the news service. But if we are able to find these people, of course, it is good to telecast them.

The reason for the news summary before and after the news is read is this. This has been the practice for a long time. The summary is to give those who switch on to the news a little late to know what has been read so far, and the summary at the beginning is to tell them what to expect. If from the summary they find that the news would be of no relevance to them, they may switch it off. The summary at the end of the news is to let them know the news items they have missed if they switch on too late.

Encik Mansor Haji Sukaimi: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I may be allowed to comment further. In the first place, the points summarised before the news do not cover all the news items being read. They may just be covering 40% of the news items. So to say that the pre-News Summary is to enable persons to anticipate what would be read in the news items does not seem to be a good explanation as to why the summary is given at the beginning of the news. Secondly, I do not really think it means much to those who came late for the news nor do I believe that they really benefit by getting the summary at the end of the news. I would like to say that I do not suggest in any way that we should stop the reading of the summary at the beginning and at the end of the news. But I think it is good for us to just ask what the rationale is, Even if this has been a long practice, do we really need to continue it? This is all I ask.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have already said that it was a summary. Sometimes it is necessary to give a headline since it is a news service. The newspapers usually have headlines. Items which are summarised at the beginning and at the end of the news are the more important news items and are given headlines. In my opinion, this format is a good one. I do not think the practice should be discontinued.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered my question correctly. He has sidetracked the issue. Most probably my picture will not be shown on the TV tonight. Because I always attack the RTS, they never show my face. However, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr S. Dhanabalan (Kallang): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CBA 1101.

I would like to ask the Minister for Culture whether there is any in-house system in RTS that evaluates and monitors programmes from the technical angle so that the many instances of technical lapses and unintended humour will be reduced. Some examples of these technical lapses have already been mentioned far more dramatically, complete with music, by the Member for Telok Blangah. I think we are all familiar with the news programmes which have been touched upon quite a bit, and with the mistakes that are often presented on the screen, for example, a map of the Middle East when the headline refers to Vietnam, or the picture of the wrong person being shown. One of the Members here swears that he once saw, instead of a picture of the Minister of Defence, a character from the "Adam's family". I do not know whether .RTS was trying to pass some subtle message to the Minister of Defence, but I think it was probably another technical lapse. I think there are too many technical lapses and an in-house system of evaluation and monitoring would help.

6.45 p.m.

Sports telecast is another area where there are quite a few lapses. It is a very popular programme and very often we find that at the most dramatic moment instead of seeing the action on the field, we see something else. For example, once I saw a hockey game where Singapore was scoring an equalising goal and instead of seeing the excitement in front of the goal mouth, I saw the excited picture of the Minister. I think there are some psychologists who make it a point to study the reaction of people watching an event. But I think most of our viewers are more simple minded and would rather watch the event. So I hope that there is some monitoring system and I would like to hear from the Minister what is happening on this particular score.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, some of the errors committed by our TV producers and cameramen are purely accidental and not due to a lack of knowledge or of training. Nevertheless, it is my view that the RTS is now large enough and sophisticated enough to justify the setting up of a staff training unit or school. The training school will enable all newcomers to the profession to receive proper training before they are actually put on the job. At the same time, older hands can be put through refresher courses to update ideas and techniques from time to time.

Many national broadcasting stations in this region have broadcasting training centres of their own. It is only in this way that technicians and production staff can thoroughly master the tools of their trade and learn how to use all the sophisticated equipment to the best advantage. Training facilities must be similar to but separate from the studios and equipment used for the daily output of programmes. To close down studios for training too often not only disrupts the normal flow of essential producion but is also uneconomical.

No, it is not the Ministry of Culture that needs to be convinced of the necessity of a training school for our broadcasting staff. It is someone else and we will try to convince them. The time to set up the training unit or centre could not be more opportune than now. We have the building which was recently vacated by the staff now housed in the new Radio Centre. We have the redundant black and white cameras and related equipment. Basically, all that we need is a small staff to run the school, some funds to refurbish the old building and for some installation and modification work to be carried out. But if we delay this too long, the cameras which are at present serviceable will through disuse rust to such an extent that they may eventually have to be written off.

At present, training is carried out on an ad hoc basis and while the trainee is in service and on the job. Some of the key members of the production staff have been sent to stations and training centres overseas to upgrade their knowledge and learn the latest techniques, particularly in colour. Upon their return these officers run sessions for the recruits and others who need training. But all this has to be done in addition to the senior officers' normal production and supervisory duties. From time to time. RTS also obtains the services of experts from overseas through the Colombo Plan scheme to carry out training sessions. For the duration of these sessions, normal production facilities and studios have to be diverted for training purposes. Until such time as the proposal for a training school is approved, I am afraid we will have to tolerate this unsatisfactory situation. However, as I have said before, most of these errors and mistakes are of an accidental nature. This is most noticeable in a programme which is telecast live, such as the news. But in a pre-recorded programme where there is opportunity for rehearsing and editing, these errors are not so common.

Mr Ivan Baptist: Sir, does the Hon. Minister not realise that accidents do not happen? They are caused. I am sure the Member for Kampong Chai Chee will agree with me. So if they are caused, something can be done about them. I do not see why we have to tolerate it.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, I do not understand what the Member meant by "caused". We do not deliberately cause these errors to happen. All these happen by accident.

Mr Conceicao: Just a small point, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir. When the Minister spoke about training, he might perhaps explore the possibility of collaboration with CEPTA. Although CEPTA is orientated towards educational TV, still the techniques are similar and there could be some economies derived out of collaboration in this respect between the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Education.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, CEPTA is devoting more time to educational TV, and therefore I think it is unfair to expect CEPTA to spend some of its time for the training of our technicians or our producers. In any case CEPTA has been of service to us, but I do not think it is a solution.

Mr Dhanabalan: Sir, in view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ahmad Haleem: Sir, I beg to move.

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead FAA 1101.

Sir, I love to go to the Museum. I have been to the National Museum many times. But, until very recently, the exhibits seem to be the same as they were 20 years ago. In the last couple of years there seemed to be some changes. I saw that money was being spent, and I thought we were going to see something fantastic. But all that I can see is that the old exhibits have been rearranged. They put the exhibits in different places, trying to confuse the public, but with a few additions. Nothing much. I am interested to see what the countries around us are like, what their histroy is like, what happened during the Stone age in Malaya. etc. But I regret to say that there is a lack of exhibits purely of Singapore origin.

160 years ago Singapore was rediscovered. Before that Singapore existed, so it was never founded. It was rediscovered. There is a lot of history before and after this period. And yet when people go to the Museum they see nothing very much about Singapore. Visitors to the Museum expect to see a potted history of our country and yet they do not see any. When they go to the Museum, they want to know who built Singapore. Personalities who are well known in Singapore should be highlighted. And so do our cultures. We are mainly of immigrant stock. Our forefathers came from various countries. Why can we not show in our Museum what Singapore was like when our Chinese, Indian, Malay or Arab forefathers came? How they were dressed, their hairstyles, customs, life-styles, and traditions. These are valuable reminders to our present Nouveau Riche, the new rich generation, of the humble and hard beginnings of our forefathers. This will encourage a sense of pride in our achievements.

I am sure many people do not really know that Singapore was really much smaller than what it is today. Reclamation was not done only in the last 15 years or so. There were reclamations even before that, like Beach Road which was actually sited on the beach. Such items in our Museum can tell what it was like to be in Singapore. We could show the wild animals in those days, like tigers, wild boars, roaming on this island. We can show visitors what Singapore was before and what it is now.

I tried to read about the local content of the Second World War, and I find that all the colonial powers, the mak salehs, get all the publicity of what they did during the war. There was very little written about our own people. How about the Museum telling us, and showing exhibits of what actually happened to Singapore during the war? There were the local celebrities, and the legal system. We can show our famous leaders, judges, lawyers, what they did, and the various personalities who have helped to build Singapore, the big Chinese towkays who created this country. All these are not being shown.

When students studying Singapore history go to our National Museum, they should be able after two or three visits to assimilate the knowledge of the whole history of Singapore. Right now, if someone goes there, he learns nothing.

Again tourists and floating population can get a look at Singapore in microcosom - everything for them to see, the growth of Singapore, how it grew from a village into a city. My forefathers used to live in Kallang village and they used to work as rollers of rokok daun (leaf cigarettes). All these things and what our forefathers were like could be shown.

The other point is that I like to know whether the Ministry proposes to have several museums in Singapore - a science museum, a natural history museum and historical museum. Because I have seen quite a lot of the natural history exhibits being removed. Are we going to have it? If so, where and when is it going to be opened.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Science Centre.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, perhaps the Member has not been to the Museum recently. If he has been there. I am sure he will find something new there, something different. So it is not correct to say that the displays in the National Museum are all the same throughout the year. The National Museum Art Gallery which was officially opened on the 21st August last year has held art exhibitions continuously. So has the Young People's Gallery which is devoted mainly to student art. In addition, the three renovated gallery rooms for the University of Singapore art collection were opened to the public in the middle of March last year. On the ground floor, the National Museum has displays pertaining to the history of Singapore from the period of Temasek to the 1930s.

7.00 p.m.

Under the final phase renovation of the National Museum there are plans to provide a gallery for the chronological history of Singapore and another gallery to illustrate the growth and development of Singapore City. Even now the displays in the old galleries are changed from time to time. For example, a display of the costumes, garments, tapestries and other artifacts used by the Straits Chinese of Singapore in the 19th and 20th centuries has just ended.

The National Museum is worth many visits in the year, especially for its exhibitions. At least 262,000 people visited the National Museum in the last financial year. What the Member wants to see seems to be an increased number of exhibits, but this can only be acquired in time. But if there are no new museum pieces discovered, how can we create them? We have already dug up the whole of Singapore as a result of the urban renewal development, but so far we have not come up with anything worth exhibiting in our Museum. I am sure if there are, they would have been exhibited in our Museum. The stuffed animals have all been taken over by the Singapore Science Council. I am sure he will find them there. It is not possible to have several museums in Singapore because it is already quite difficult to keep up with just one museum. I am sure we do not have the resources to keep more than one.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, just a point of information. There are a number of museums already. There are the Arts and Anthropology Museum, the Science Centre Museum and the Sentosa Maritime and Gun Museum. We are quite well stocked with museums. Perhaps I should suggest to the Minister for Culture that he revives the Advisory Committee that used to help him with the Museum. The Member for Telok Blangah could be invited to be a member of this Committee. I remember I was a member of this Committee at one time but after we have finished our work the Minister closed down the Committee. This reminds me of the Malay expression: Lepas jambatan buang tongkat.

Mr Ahmad Haleem: Sir, I go to the Museum very often. I am aware of the various art exhibitions and that there have been improvements. But what I am saying is that the improvement is just a redistribution of the old exhibits. I remember what it was 20 years ago, and now I see it is the same one redistributed. There was the nyonya exhibit. I went to see the nyonya exhibit and all the art exhibits. What I am saying is that I want to see the history of Singapore as I walk in. That is what I want to see. And that is what my children and other people's children and the students want to see. They do not want to see exhibits one at a time. Do you expect everybody to go and see just the nyonya clothes? Not every one in Singapore could go and see the exhibit four or five times a year. They may be able to go there only once or twice.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, I had the fortune or misfortune to serve in the same Committee as the Member for Katong. The Member for Telok Blangah said that the Museum appeared to be nothing new but a rearrangement of exhibits. The Museum has been there for many years and the arrangement was there for those many years that it only conformed to the old display technique.

What I understand is that the Museum is now undergoing renovation to upgrade and update itself in the style, manner and artistic display of the very valuable exhibits. Maybe the Member for Telok Blangah is under the misconception that it is a simple means to deceive the public. I can assure the Member that being quite associated with the Museum myself, that is not the case, First, it has to get itself geared up, update itself and then we can talk about whether or not we should have a department to show the history of Singapore. But now and then, exhibitions like the nyonya dress and so on will highlight one particular aspect of the history of Singapore and that the cumulative effect will give us a better indepth than just walking into the Museum and declare that "I have emerged from the history of Singapore." It is not possible at this stage to put everything together in the very constricted area of the National Museum. If the Member for Telok Blangah spends three hours in the Museum and declares that "I have been to the Museum", I think he is not being honest with himself. That is not the way to see a museum. I will have to spend at least one week if I want to understand every exhibit in our Museum alone. However, in etiquette, the Member for Telok Blangah might think it is.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Sir, the Member for Kampong Chai Chee has already spoken what I am going to say. So all that I am going to add is that a museum is a museum. It is not a china shop. A museum isa place where all the old things of historical value are being housed. Since we do not have so many things of a historical value, we have to do with the old ones which are already there. In a china shop, of course, we can have a new display every week or whenever a shipment comes in. That is another matter.

The Advisory Committee of the Museum has done a very good job. Of course, we are not the kind of people that would be accused of guo qiao chou ban ( ) which means "After we have crossed the bridge, we will take away the plank."

Mr Conceicao: I was only joking.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: We are not that kind of people. We appreciate their services very much and we would, when the time comes, again invite them, if they are still interested in it, to sit in the Committee.

Mr Ahmad Haleem: Sir, I am not entirely happy with the answer, but I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead GAA 1101* (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Dr Ong Leong Boon).

Sir, under this subhead I would like to pose two questions. Firstly, in the past one year I have found that the Film Censorship Board has not been stringent in its censorship of films. They have become more liberal in their censorship, resulting in certain undesirable films being screened in the cinemas, such as those violent, phantasmic, nonsensical and obscene films. All these undesirable films are having their way in Singapore and are causing an adverse effect on our people, particularly the youths. They are detrimental to the welfare of our youths. We know that our youths are still in their formative years and are susceptible to all sorts of bad influences. These undesirable films will lead our youths astray and degenerate. This is very dangerous. For example, those nonsensical, obscene or sex pictures will influence the youths to tease or molest women and girls even in public. Other films are so phantasmic and monstrous that will kindle the superstitions of the audience. Some action films are very violent and bloody in certain scenes. All these will leave an indelible influence and will cause a lot of harm to our people, particularly our youths.

Recently, there has been a continued manifestation of such bad trends in our society. We can find from the statistics of the Health Ministry that there are youths both boys and girls under 14 years who have contracted VD and the number of juvenile delinquency cases is increasing year by year. We have the responsibility to provide a healthy environment for our people to live and grow in. Ours is a young country. About 60% of our population is under 21 years old. They are our priceless asset. Whether they grow up healthily or degenerate into a decadent generation will affect the future of our country. Therefore, we should not neglect this aspect of our affairs. We should consider this matter seriously and impose a ban on all such undesirable films. I hope the Minister for Culture and his officials will persuade the film distributors and agents to buy only those healthy films with educational significance for screening, otherwise they would not be approved by the Film Censorship Board. Since cinema films enjoy a large audience, business must be very lucrative, and the film distributors and agents can buy and show those good films and still make a profit.

The second question is: in the past one year how many films were banned from public screening and what categories did they belong to? What were the reasons for banning such films?

Dr Ong Leong Boon: Sir, I have listened with great admiration and interest to the Member for Sembawang on his views regarding film censorship. However, I thought it would be fair for me to stand up and perhaps moderate his enthusiasm to censor films to the extent that he has advocated.

I agree that films that blatantly advocate sex, violence, crimes, political or racial overtones should be banned without hesitation. What I am saying here is, in effect, that if censorship is to be exercised it should be exercised cleverly. If the Film Censorship Board decides to cut parts away from a film, this should not be overdone to the extent that the film loses its artistic content completely, that it is disjointed and the language becomes incoherent. If such deletions of a film are necessary, a ban should be imposed totally, and not reducing a two-hour film to just one hour. I think the public deserve a better treatment. The public should not be cheated by the distributors.

7.15 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to add here, however, that the Film Censorship Board must realise that different films cater to different sectors of the population. Therefore, in a sense, films that may be acceptable to one sector may not be acceptable to another. I know that arising from this argument that there could be conflicting interest and hence difficulty in terms of allowing certain films through.

Sir, I note with great interest that recently a certain film called "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" was allowed. I think this film was allowed after an appeal and a certain amount of publicity was given in the press. I personally would like to applaud the Ministry of Culture for allowing this film to come through because there are many factors which one has to consider in exercising the axe. I wish to ask the Minister that with the passing of that film, does it therefore indicate that the Film Censorship Board is now undergoing a period of liberalisation of its attitude or approach towards film censorship, or was the film allowed purely because of press agitation? I must confess that since that film was allowed there were many other interesting films which have been shown in cinemas and, in fact, over Television Singapore. The public has responded very favourably. I notice the language is free and simple with lots of monosyllables, words which we commonly use and hear. And the bare facts of life made barer and the beauty of body and flesh given display in its full glory. In a sense, it is a refreshing change.

I come back to the point regarding the different sectors that films cater. Would it not be possible, therefore, for the Ministry of Culture to consider classification of films? If the Film Censorship Board feels that a certain sector of the population should not see these movies they can be classified accordingly.

As a final comment, I would like the Minister to enlighten this House as to the banning of a certain film about the episode at Entebbe Airport, a film that I thought depicted victory of resolve over bully, discipline over madness.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not easy to please everyone. The Member for Kim Seng is happy to see some relaxation in censorship but, on the other hand, the Member for Sembawang deplores this and is sad to see such relaxation. Films is always a popular topic for debate and it is perhaps the most popular entertainment for Singaporeans and it is also a profitable commodity.

Film producers will produce films that can draw crowds, and after some time when a certain type of film has lost its attraction, they will produce something else. So you have films on the supernatural, ghosts, vampires, and so on. But such films are generally unrealistic and they provide a kind of escape for the ordinary people and nobody will take them seriously. To prohibit the exhibition of such films would be an exaggeration of their influence on the cinema goers. We have had our days when we were young. We all grew up in the days when these films were popular, but it does not mean that we are all ghost-fearing or vampire-fearing people. It really does not affect us at all. Even then all the films portraying the supernatural and those depicting sex are carefully scrutinised before they are allowed public exhibition.

However, as the Government does not import or produce films, we are not in a position to select films for the people. I think it is also unwise to tell the exhibitors that they should show or import only a certain type of film. On the contrary, we should encourage the cinemas to show as many types of films as possible so that the people have a better choice of them.

As regards young people indulging in sex, I do not think it is because of films. Sex comes to us naturally. I do not think it is because of films that cause these people to indulge in sexual activities. The Member for Sembawang wants to know the number of films banned last year. The number of films banned last year is 73. Forty of them glorified crime. violence, gangsterism or drug addiction; 23 were sex exploitative or morally objectionable; 9 were banned for political reasons; and one on religious grounds. It is not correct to say that we are relaxing our criteria on film censorship. It has always been our policy to see that films shown in our cinemas are decent, healthy and of good taste. But the judging of a film differs very widely from person to person and also from time to time. It is very difficult to lay down in detail whether a particular scene or a particular word should or should not be allowed and therefore we have this kind of difference in treatment. Very often, a film has to be judged in its entirety before a decision is made as to whether a particular scene should be cut. No, we are not relaxing our censorship on films. Perhaps you can describe what you are seeing as a more sensible or a more enlightening approach in film censorship. But when a film is cut, care is always taken to see that cuts are not noticeable.

As to the classification of films, we have considered this matter. If I remember correctly, when the Member for Katong came to this House he was the first to raise this matter. We have considered this and our feeling is that it is not a very good idea to have film classification. If we do have film classification then there should be a lot of films which are of artistic value but which cannot be shown to the younger population. But unfortunately there are not so many of this kind of films. Most of the films that are supposed to be rated X are actually on sex exploitation. It is more an erotic or pornographic film than an ordinary film made in an artistic way. So there is really no advantage in having film classification in Singapore because we would then have a lot of films coming into Singapore which are of no value at all. If the Member for Kim Seng has been overseas - I am sure he has - he would know that in most of the cinemas in Europe or the USA where X films are shown, in many instances, the cinemas are practically empty. So you can see that if we do have classification in Singapore, after a while I am sure our cinemas will also be empty after the people get tired of them. This would really be a waste of the facilities. It would be a better idea to let them show decent films and films which are of good taste so that everyone, not only the grown-ups, can enjoy.

On the matter of the film which was banned it is entitled "The Raid on Entebbe Airport". It was banned on political grounds. Because of the representation made by certain embassies in Singapore and also because of other considerations, we have decided that it should be banned.

Dr Ong Leong Boon: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to clarify or rebut one point. This concerns X films which the Hon. Minister said that shown in European countries or in America the cinemas are virtually empty. I think that is exactly the point that is perhaps worth noting.

The human curiosity is such a powerful element that if you should prohibit people from seeing certain things or certain features or certain films, then the desire, the wish, the wanting, to see that particular film is even greater. Likewise, the human anatomy. It so happened that thousands of years ago somebody decided that certain parts of the human body should be hidden, and since then history records man's curiosity to see those parts in their full glory. May I suggest, therefore, that if history were to be re-written and I had some part to play in this, I would say. "Hide the big toe". And I tell you every human being today would be crying and wanting to see the big toe in its full nakedness!

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Is the Member for Kim Seng suggesting that we should open up some kind of nudist colony in Singapore so that more tourists can be attracted to Singapore? I do not think that in order to satisfy the curiosity of the people we should allow this kind of film because knowing the end result would be empty cinemas, why do we have to do this? Why not put them to better use? Why waste the equipment? Why waste the time of other people?

Dr Ong Leong Boon: Sir, I just want to record that I feel very sorry that the Minister has missed my point altogether.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, although the reply from the Minister is not very satisfactory. I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

7.30 p.m.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok (Delta): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of item (a) of subhead AAA 3020* (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr J. F. Conceicao).

Sir, we have been told by the Minister that the cultural policy of the Minister is to improve its present range of cultural activities to meet the growing demand for more sophisticated programmes. This means that we need to have more money, but the fact is that the contribution to cultural organisations has been drastically reduced. In the Addendum to the Presidential Address at the opening of this Session of the Fourth Parliament, the Minister for Culture has stated, and I quote [Hansard, Vol 36, cols 42 - 3]:

`Apart from sponsoring competitions, exhibitions and performances, the Ministry will provide financial and other forms of assistance to deserving amateur cultural groups.'

Sir, in the light of his remarks I would like to ask the Minister the following questions.

First, why is there a reduction from $186,500 for FY 76 to only $10,000 for FY 77? Second, what are the criteria for contributing financially to cultural organisations? Third, how many cultural organisations have received this contribution? Fourth, how can the Ministry help promote and improve cultural activities with much less money as budgetted here? Sir, the budget here is not in line with the policy of the Ministry of Culture as spelt out in the Addendum.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Member for Delta that the sum earmarked for contribution to cultural organisations has always been $10,000. Although the provision appears to be higher in some years the additional fund was actually meant for renovation work to our theatres. For example, in FY 76 out of $186,500 provided in the subhead, $176,500 was used for rewiring and installation of fire fighting equipment at the National Theatre. The balance of $10,000 was used for contributions to cultural organisations. There is no reduction in the provision.

Three criteria are used for approving grants. The organisations applying for the grant should be active. The project should have some merit and the organisation is in need of financial support. In 1976 grants were given to the National Junior College Drama Society, the National Theatre Club, the Experimental Theatre Club, the Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts, the Alumni Association, Sri Warna, the National Book Development Council and the Stage Club. The National Theatre Club was given a grant of $5,000 for organising a wide range of activities. Grants of between $500 and $1,000 were made to the other organisations to assist them in carrying out various cultural activities, including the staging of plays and cultural shows, organising a workshop on bibliographical standards and an art exhibition. The Member would appreciate that cultural promotion requires the support not only from the Government but also from members of the public, civic and commercial organisations. The small grants given by my Ministry are a token expression of Government's support for healthy cultural activities.

The Chairman: It is guillotine time.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok: In view of the guillotine time, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The time allotted for Head Q having expired, the following amendments were not proceeded with: Mr Phey Yew Kok: Mr Tan Cheng San: (9) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (b) of subhead AAA 3020. Dr Ong Leong Boon: (10) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 3020. Mr Sia Khoon Seong (11) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CAA 4002. Haii Rahmat bin Kenap: Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon: (12) That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 8301. The sum of $47,749,860 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $10,407,000 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head R -

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004.

Sir, I know that the Ministry of Science and Technology has got to do a lot of research work before any recommendations are implemented in the field of science and technology in the interest of our Republic. I believe that through the efforts of this Ministry some studies have been done on alternative sources of energy, like solar energy and the monsoon winds, which could in a way be useful to Singapore. May I know what are the findings?

Besides this, may I also know what are the other major scientific and technological experiments and studies that have been and are being carried out, and what recommendations have been made so far by this Ministry to the various authorities concerned.

Are local personnel given ample opportunities to be trained in research work in foreign countries in the field of science and technology, so that we can fulfil our desire of being the brain centre of this region?

Sir, the Department of Scientific Services is, by name an important one and it is managed by a staff of 144 persons. Under the Medicines Act, one of the functions of this department is to provide microbiological testing of pharmaceutical products for the Ministry of Health as well as the private sector. It would appear that this department caters mainly for the Health Ministry. What about its functions to other Ministries? I feel that this Department should also extend its services to the other Ministries.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, as part of its efforts to promote scientific and technological development, the Ministry encourages research activities by local researchers both in Government and in the tertiary institutions through the award of research grants. Such grants are awarded for research on selected topics which are beneficial and relevant to our needs. Besides studies on energy sources, research grants have been provided for research projects in other fields such as engineering studies, pollution control, applied chemistry, biological studies and on technological development of specific industries. The findings of the researches are made available to relevant Ministries or departments for their use as appropriate.

One such research project undertaken by the Mechanical Engineering Department of the University of Singapore is the possible use of solar and wind energy. Preliminary results indicate that it would be technically and economically feasible to use solar energy for the production of hot water for domestic purposes. Utilisation of solar energy for air-conditioning and refrigeration, though technically feasible, will not be an economically viable proposition. Similarly, in the case of the study of wind energy, it was found that it may be possible to utilise wind energy for the production of electricity on a small scale to power light beacons but the wind force was not strong enough for any large scale power generation.

The training of local personnel in foreign countries is in general coordinated by the Public Service Commission. The Ministry is directly concerned only in training of manpower in the use and application of nuclear energy and ample opportunities are provided to train suitable local personnel in this area.

As regards the Department of Scientific Services, it provides a wide range of scientific back-up services to several Government Ministries and departments and not just to the Health Ministry. For instance, it examines food samples and water samples for the Ministry of the Environment, urine specimens for the Central Narcotics Bureau, the hospitals and the Police, exhibits connected with crime for the Police and liquor for the Customs Department. It also provides document examination services and radiation protection services for several Government departments as well as firms in the private sector. The department has been providing services in the field of pharmaceutical products for the Ministry of the Environment, the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Health. This is now being further extended to pharmaceutical firms in the private sector.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: In view of the Minister's explanation. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $22,567,050 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $21,020,000 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head S -

Mr Ngeow Pack Hua: (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004* (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Teong Eng Siong, P. Govindaswamy and Ahmad Haleem).

Sir, as Minister for Social Affairs one of his main duties is to look after social welfare work. Briefly he has the duty initially to help those unfortunate people in our society. Therefore, to be a Minister for Social Affairs, the first condition is not whether one can do it or capable or not capable but whether one has sympathy. Sir, after these few years I have come to this conclusion. I feel that the Minister for Social Affairs is one without sympathy. To be more frank, I feel that he is a bit like what the Chinese saying says, "One with a stony heart." To many unfortunate events in the society he has always been lethargic. If we read the newspapers we can always find that there are reports of frequent tragedies taking place in our society. Just as the Prime Minister has said, if you do not read the Chinese newspapers, you do not understand what is happening in our society. We have frequently come across unfortunate incidents happening suddenly to some families, the breadwinner of a family suddenly meeting with some tragedy, being killed at worksite or due to some other events, so that members of the family are left alone, high and dry. Overnight, the old and young are left helpless, with their livelihood going from bad to worse. So; has the Government taken any immediate practical steps to help such people? No, to be frank. Not only this, the HDB has also threatened to evict them because of arrears in rental and the PUB has also threatened to take action against them because of arrears in payment of PUB supplies. Recently, there was an unprecedented tragedy of a family, a widow and her daughter. They burnt themselves to death in an HDB flat because of difficulty in looking for any means of livelihood. Does the Minister know about this?

7.45 p.m.

Very often local newspapers, particularly the Chinese newspapers, have been taking the lead in organising relief to help such people. This is done as part of their social duty to render good services. All along, the response from members of the public has been spontaneous. Many people have donated generously, many anonymously. Only our Social Affairs Ministry is apathetic to such social tragedies. Normally, it is the Government that should take the lead. But it now appears that the Ministry of Social Affairs seems to be taking the attitude that such tragedies are merely some isolated family tragedies and it is not the business of the Ministry. I think it is the Ministry's duty. The officers concerned also should not just work to rule and be contented with merely engaging in investigation and doling out some little amount of money to such victims, and that is all. There should be a contingency `und to meet such a situation. If such a tragedy happens, the Ministry concerned should immediately take action.

We have been talking about the traditional good virtues of Eastern people. Let me point out one which is to look after the orphans and widows and to render them assistance. This is the usual expectation on the Government by Oriental people. Why is the TV programme Pao Ching Tien, that is Justice Pao, so very popular? It is because we Orientals all look up to him to be not only just, but also humane and with warmth. Our Minister for Social Affairs obviously cannot measure up to the stature of Justice Pao but at least he should take the lead in this matter. The Ministry of Social Affairs should initiate relief action in such cases at least negotiate with the HDB or the PUB to be more flexible in dealing with such unfortunate people and should not leave it to the Members of Parliament alone to take up this responsibility.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not quite agree with what the Member for Boon Lay has said - that our Minister is "one with a stony heart". On the other hand, he appears to be a very kind person.

The work of the Social Welfare Department is to be in charge of social welfare and to render welfare services to needy people. All along it has done its work quite well and I have no adverse comment to make against it.

I would like to touch upon the social welfare of the aged. This matter is receiving popular attention now. I would like to draw the attention of the Minister for Social Affairs to my views on this. On the matter of providing welfare care for the aged, I know that the department concerned has been encouraging civic mutual aid organisations to set up small scale homes for the aged to accommodate destitute old people. This is a good move. I feel that these civic organisations are very willing to take up part of the responsibility in looking after the old and the destitute. But I feel that many civic organisations are not quite able financially to take up the entire burden for this task. In order to carry out their work, there is the need for substantial amounts of money to buy the necessary equipment and the facilities required. Also there is the need for a constant source of finance to meet recurrent expenditure. So I would like to ask the Minister whether he will consider allocating some funds as allowance to assist those mutual-aid organisations which run homes for the aged.

Secondly, in order to assist the livelihood of the aged, will the Minister consider raising the retirement age? At present it is at 55 years. Although some people have reached 55 they are still quite healthy physically; because of the changing times. In the past, people who lived up to 70 years old were rare. Nowadays the situation is different. There are many people who have reached 70 years and are still healthy. So we should reconsider the retiring age. Maybe the Minister says that it is not under his portfolio but a matter for the Minister for Finance to decide. But I say he could start of! something in this respect in his department. The Minister can take the lead in doing something about his department.

Thirdly, the question of the aged has aroused the interest of the public. In order to enable those aged people who have contributed to our society to be treated and looked after better. I would like to ask whether the Ministry concerned will start a campaign to respect and love the old people and to teach and instil a sense of respect for the aged among our younger generation.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the previous Members have spoken regarding allowances. I am going to speak on sports. I spoke about it last year and I am going to speak on sports again this year.

We are all agreed that the objective of sports promotion in Singapore is the mass participation of our people in sports. This is more important than producing champions. But then we must at the same time try our best to improve the standard of our sportsmen and sportswomen. This is evidently seen in the selection of the Sportsman and Sportswoman of the Year as it appears that there is no keen competition from the various sports associations for this annual grand title during the last few years. However, I wonder what encouragement and incentives are given by the various sports associations and Government leaders to our stars who represent our State for international meets.

I understand that in most cases, very little encouragement and incentives are provided by the sports associations for our players. Many State players from the various sports associations have mentioned that in some instances the officials of the associations do not give proper guidance and moral support which they are supposed to give to the players. I believe the main problem is finance. Besides the Football Association of Singapore which is now more or less financially stable, the other sports associations need adequate financial backing. Perhaps sponsorship by various firms could be a solution. Potential players who represent the State should be given incentives like time-off for more meaningful centralised training, sports aids, monetary incentives, participating in more international meets and even more newspaper publicity for encouragement.

I know the present Chairman of the Singapore Sports Council and since he took over the administration of the SSC he has got a proper control of the Council. He himself makes it a point to check and attends to all matters pertaining to sports. This is remarkable. But then the SSC has got no control on the individual sports associations which are supposed to give encouragement to their members.

The Minister himself is a keen supporter of sports. Sir, you can see him attending many sports functions. He is at the National Stadium to support our national soccer team whenever the team is in action. He too should be praised for the interest shown. However, I hope that he would use his good offices to see that the players are properly treated and that the standard of the game is improved.

Sir, the National Stadium is no longer a "white elephant" as it once was. We now regularly hear of the "Kallang Roar" of the soccer fans. Perhaps it is the roar of the capacity crowds which may have produced the cracks in the structure of the Stadium. May I ask what is being done to minimise the danger that these cracks present? There is a craze by most Singaporeans, both male and female, to support our national soccer team in action at the National Stadium. The paying crowd numbering thousands come out in full force to cheer our national team. This is indeed remarkable and because of our local support, our players' performance too is glorifying.

However, there is a need to discipline some of our local fans. In the recent World Cup series, the fans played their part very well in cheering the teams.

The police has now formed a permanent unit of hundreds of National Servicemen under the charge of the Reserve Unit to control the crowd. But then during some of the matches of the Malaysia Cup series, even the police had some problems in controlling the crowd.

There were occasions when some mischief makers threw missiles onto the pitch, onto the players and the referee. This I think should be definitely stopped.

Cheering and booing is a common thing in sports which is acceptable. But the throwing of missiles onto the field is a very dangerous act and is not healthy in the light of sports promotion, though the fans may show their colours here. But what would be the fate of our innocent players when they go for return games? A typical example is the match against Pahang last year which should be a lesson to our local fans, I also note that some of our mischievous fans boo, pass uncalled remarks and spit at some of the visiting players when they are leaving the stadium. This is, in fact, not healthy. I therefore suggest some sort of strict measures be introduced like banning some of the offenders from entering the stadium for sometime.

Sir, the grounds outside the National Stadium still seem unsafe despite my pointing this out a few years ago. Too many accidents have occurred, particularly at night when thousands of people rush out of the stadium after a match and some have to cut across the grounds and open drains. And if accidents should occur at that time, there is the problem of getting medical aid immediately because of the heavy traffic leaving the stadium. Something must be done to cover up the many open drains which are around the stadium.

Sir, I notice that 30 squash courts, 70 tennis courts but only three football pitches are provided in the master plan. I wonder why there are only three football pitches. The squash and tennis courts will cater for the affluent members of our population. Since we are placing emphasis on mass participation, what we need is more football pitches because a football pitch if used properly will serve more people and it helps to solve part of our social problems particularly amongst the young.

The Farrer Park football pitches are being well utilised every day so much so that when the newly erected lights at the nearby tennis courts are switched on some people take advantage of the bright lights to play football at night. Why should we not light up the football fields too? I am sure it would benefit many office workers to play soccer at night. Perhaps we may succeed not only in letting our young citizens spend their energy wisely but also produce future soccer stars.

Sir, badminton seems to be dying a natural death. What is really going on? Why is there such a lack of interest in badminton? Our standard of badminton was very high at the time when it was a very popular game. more popular than soccer, but it has gone down very badly, particularly after the Thomas Cup went to Indonesia. Something must be done to revive this game and other games too.

The opening of the Fitness Park is a good move. This Ministry could liaise with the Ministry of Culture to introduce a daily fitness programme over TV to serve a greater part of the population who, for various reasons, may not be able to go to the fitness park.

Sir, as the Minister for Social Affairs is also responsible for religious matters, I take this opportunity to ask him about the alternative site at Toa Payoh for the building of a Hindu temple which is at present sited in Somerset Road. This alternative site about 5,000 sq. ft. seems to be too small. It seems that it can accommodate only a chicken coop, and moreover it is next to a big monsoon drain. The locality is very bad for a Hindu temple. As such the site was not accepted and the matter is still in abeyance for quite some time.

8.02 p.m.

The Chairman: Order. Mr P. Govindaswamy, can you please develop your arguments tomorrow? Moment of Interruption.

Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

The Minister for Social Affairs (Encik Othman Bin Wok): Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1977 to 31st March, 1978, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Deputy Speaker: So be it.