TELECOMMUNICATION AUTHORITY OF SINGAPORE BILL

Order for Second Reading read. 5.50 p.m.

The Minister for Communications and Minister for Labour (Mr Ong Teng Cheong): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

In Singapore today, the Postal Services Department is responsible for the conveyance of letters, postcards and parcels both within and outside Singapore. On the other hand, the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore is responsible for the provision of domestic and international telephone, telex and telegram services. The idea of merging these two organizations into a single organization responsible for both postal and telecommunication operations arose a few years ago. It was then recognized that with the advent of electronic mail in the near future, the transmission of messages over vast distances by electronic means would soon be faster and cheaper than that by post.

With this development, the functions performed by the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Autho- rity of Singapore would overlap to some extent. It would be administratively neater for the postal and telecommunication functions to be performed by a single authority. Merger would also reduce competing demand for scarce technical staff and enable the two organizations to concentrate their efforts to provide the most efficient and cheapest service to the public.

Singapore will benefit from the merger of the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore. Scarce resources, especially manpower, would be deployed more efficiently. For example, one person could deliver letters and postcards, as well as telegrams, instead of two persons, one to deliver letters and postcards and the other to deliver telegrams. Vehicles belonging to both organizations could be pooled together with resultant savings in fuel and reduction in the number of vehicles, drivers and mechanics employed. The existing network of 72 post offices all over Singapore could also serve as outlets where various telecommunication services could be provided. The public will then be able to send letters and parcels, buy stamps, make international telephone calls, send telegrams or bring telephone sets to be repaired or replaced - all these at a post office. Separate telephone area offices in land-scarce Singapore would therefore not be necessary.

It is not unusual for one organization to be responsible for both postal and telecommunication services in a country. After all, postal and telecommunication services complement one another. Anyone wishing to communicate with another person could either make a phone call or send a letter. He could, of course, do both. This is acknowledged, perhaps implicitly, in countries such as West Germany, Japan, Switzerland, New Zealand, Brazil and the Netherlands where postal and telecommunication operations are handled by a single organization.

The Bill before the House seeks-to effect the merger of the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore into a single statutory board. The present name "Teleommunication Authority of Singapore" or Telecoms, for short, will be retained for the new organization. The public has accepted the name "Telecoms" as synonymous with efficiency and technological progress. I do not wish to change the name for the time being because I want the new Telecoms to maintain the tradition of providing the best possible service at the cheapest cost to the public. I am confident that it will be able to do so. Steps will be taken to publicize that the new Telecoms will be responsible for both postal and telecommunication operations in Singapore.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I shall now go through the main sections in the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore Bill, 1982. The Bill is basically an amalgamation of the Post Office Act (Chapter 84) and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore Act, 1974. Editorial changes have been made to bring in line similar provisions in both Acts and to combine them into one provision whenever possible.

The new Telecoms will continue to be given the existing exclusive privilege of operating and providing information communication systems in Singapore. The term "information communication" will cover the modes of post and telecommunication, which are used for communicating information from one place to another. The only exceptions are the telecommunication systems operated by the Singapore Armed Forces and the Singapore Police Force as well as the broadcasting system operated by the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation. All others wishing to operate or provide postal and telecommunication services in Singapore must apply to Telecoms for a licence.

All postal and telecommunication officers will be transferred to the service of the new Telecoms on terms no less favourable than those currently enjoyed by them in their respective organizations. In the case of common-user employees in the Postal Services Department, provision has been made for those who wish to remain in the Civil Service to do so. Those officers wishing to remain in the Civil Service will be posted to other departments on the same terms and conditions of service. All postal employees transferred to the new Telecoms who wish to remain on the pension scheme may also do so. The others will be emplaced on the Central Provident Fund Scheme.

The new Telecoms will be run by a Board consisting of a Chairman, the Chief Executive and up to seven other members. All Board members, including the Chief Executive, will be appointed by the Minister. The Board shall be responsible for submitting a report on the activities of the organization to the Minister every year. The report in turn will be presented to Parliament.

The new organization will be fully responsible in meeting its financial obligations. It may, with the approval of the Minister, borrow money by issuing debentures, shares or stocks of various classes or raise capital from banks and other financial institutions in Singapore or abroad. Any operating surplus will be used to finance capital expansion so as to improve the level of information communication services and upgrade existing facilities.

With the easy availability of more and more sophisticated telecommunication equipment all over Singapore, we must be constantly vigilant to ensure the proper use of such equipment. The existing power of seizure for the illegal use of radio-communication equipment has therefore been extended to include telecommunication equipment and attachments. Such seized equipment, if not claimed by the owners after two months, may then be disposed of by the new Telecoms in any manner considered desirable.

The Bill also authorizes the Chief Executive or any officer authorized to act for him to arrest or search any person or to search any place if there is good reason to suspect that an offence under the Bill is being committed or is about to be committed. The organization is also empowered to compound certain offences so as to avoid having to go to court on minor offences.

These then are the major highlights of the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore Bill, 1982. In seeking to effect the merger of the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore, I must stress that skilled and experienced manpower in the field of information communication technology in Singapore is very limited. Our limited manpower resources will be stretched to keep up with the ever-increasing pace of technological advancement in this field. It is, therefore, sensible that we merge the two organizations and pool their resources together so that the new Telecoms is able to develop Singapore as a communication and information centre more effectively.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question proposed. 6.02 p.m.

Encik Othman bin Haron Eusofe (Geylang Serai): Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill will create a large public corporation which will assume the existing functions and powers of the Postal Services Department and the existing Telecommunication Authority of Singapore. This merger can indeed promise a more efficient and effective use of resources. However, the quality of the information communication services which the new Corporation will provide will depend greatly on the quality of its workforce and the work environment in the Corporation. Sir, I would like to draw attention to the following:

(a) Human aspects of the merger exercise

Large organizations can become impersonal structures with little compassion for their workers. It is essential for the new Corporation to guard against this strenuously. Clauses 28 and 29 of the Bill provide for the transfer of employees to the new Corporation and for the protection of their conditions of service on transfer. It is important here that the workers are not taken for granted and the transfer treated as a mere perfunctory exercise. In the merger exercise the new Corporation must be sensitive to the feelings of the workers. Their fears regarding their role and their future in the new Corporation must be quickly allayed. In general, workers will be motivated to contribute to the best of their ability and will be committed and loyal to organizations which clearly demonstrate their care and concern for them. Hence, the decision-making process of the merger should take careful account of the human aspects of the transfer. The Corporation must have a "heart". We must always remind ourselves that organizations are about people who have feelings and who want respect and dignity and not about work digits or work horses.

I would now like to turn to training and skill development of workers in the new Telecommunication Authority of Singapore.

(b) Training and Skill Development for Workers in the new Telecommunication Authority of Singapore

We are witnessing rapid developments in the field of information communication. We must keep pace with the developments and the technological changes associated with them if Singapore is to remain as an information communication service centre. To enable the workers in the Corporation to cope with the technological changes, their training and skill development needs must be given high priority. It is natural for workers to become apprehensive of changes, especially when they occur at a rapid pace. Changes have an unsettling effect. The main reason for this is the lack of information as to how these changes will affect them and their jobs. This is perhaps more so for workers who see the introduction of computerization, automation and robotization and so on as having a direct effect on their jobs, and they fear that they may become obsolete and be discarded. However, if they are given adequate and timely information on the changes and the steps that are taken to prepare and train them so that they can continue to play a useful role, they will be only too willing to respond responsibly and will help to usher in the new technology confidently. The new technology will help to make them more productive and will enable them to enjoy a better quality of life. It is, therefore, of paramount importance that steps are taken quickly to gear up the training and skill development of the workers in the new Corporation.

Sir, I submit that it is the quality of the human resources in the new Corporation which will ultimately determine how successful it will be in the future.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, first of all, may I express my support, in principle, for this Bill. I think it is commendable that the Postal Services and the services provided by the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore should come under a single body.

My only observation, and I say this without any reflection on the Hon. Minister who is going to be in charge of this Corporation, is that whilst he sets up the Corporation and appoints the Chairman and several members, it would appear from my reading of the Bill that they are really unable to do anything without, first of all, getting the approval of the Minister. It seems to me that too much power, again may I say without any reflection on the Minister, is vested in the Minister and not really in the Corporation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, would this not bring about a lack of confidence in the Chairman and members of the Corporation? There are several sections where it would seem to me that the Minister's power is unlimited, and I wonder whether it is advisable that the power of the Minister should be unlimited.

If one looks at clause 10, this deals with the appointment of the Chief Executive and other employees of the Corporation. We have, of course, the First Schedule which deals with the appointment of members of the Corporation. If I may take the First Schedule first, it would appear that the appointment of the Chairman and other members of the Corporation shall be by the Minister. I have no qualms about the judgment of the Minister, but I would like to know whether, in the appointment of the Chairman and members of the Corporation, the Minister would be guided by anybody, would he seek the advice of the Public Service Commission on these appointments, or would it just be left to the discretion of the Minister alone. I think it is necessary that in setting up a Corporation to undertake such vast undertakings as the Postal Services and the services provided by the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore, the people who are appointed should be capable people who can discharge the functions effectively and satisfactorily.

There is, again, the power given to the Minister to remove all or an of the mem- bers of the Corporation. There is a qualification, that is, "necessary in the interests of the effective and economical performance of the functions of the Corporation . . . . There, again, is the power to remove members of the Corporation left to the sole discretion of the Minister. Will the Minister be guided by anybody else on this matter?

Then there is what would appear to be a carte blanche power to the Minister to remove members of the Corporation or any member of the Corporation in the public interest. Now we find "public interest" power given to the Minister in other sections as well. Is the Minister to be made the sole judge of what is in the public interest, or would he again seek the advice of anybody else outside himself before he exercises these powers?

There is the appointment of the Chief Executive. Again, one finds that although the Corporation is empowered to appoint a Chief Executive, it may only do so after seeking the approval of the Minister. So much for the powers given to the Minister for the appointment of members of the Corporation and the Chief Executive. I think it is desirable, and I hope the Minister will see that it is desirable, that perhaps the Public Service Commission or any other body should be drawn into the appointment even if it be in an advisory capacity.

Then there is clause 18 on which I would like some clarification from the Minister. It talks about the investment of funds. I see that funds may be invested:

'in securities in which trust funds may, by any written law for the time being in force relating to trustees, be invested . . .'.

We can find out what are the investments that trustees can make. But then there is this:

'for the development of information communication service whether in Singapore or elsewhere.'

I do not quite understand what is intended by this. Is it intended that funds of the Corporation should be used to finance development of information communication services outside Singapore? Would that give the Corporation an equity in the other information service, or would it be by way of an outright loan being granted to the other undertaking outside Singapore, and before any such investment is made, whether there would be obtained the approval, I would say, of Parliament?

Then there is clause 22 where one finds the "public interest" powers of the Minister. This is in subclause (6):

'(6) On the occurrence of any public emergency or in the public interest the Minister may, by order in writing, direct that -

(a) the operation of any telecommunication . . . should be subject to the control of the Government, and may - xxx xxx xxx

(ii) provide for the taking of, the control of or the usage for official purposes of, all or any such telecommunication system and'

and then, finally,

(iii) provide for the stopping, delaying and censoring of messages and the carrying out of any other purposes which the Minister thinks necessary, . . .'.

So we have, here again, wide powers given to the Minister to stop, delay and censor messages, if he considers that the public interest or public emergency requires it. And sub-clause (7) says:-

'(7) if any doubt arises as to the existence of a public emergency or as to whether any act done under paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (6) was in the public interest, a certificate signed by the Minister shall be conclusive evidence of the matters stated therein.'

In other words, the Minister is made the sole judge again of what is public emergency or when a public emergency exists or what is in the public interest.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would counsel against such wide powers being given just to the Minister, again without any reflection on the Minister who is introducing this Bill. We are talking about the principle of the Bill and whether it is advisable that powers should be vested in just one man.

Then, if I may talk about the transfer of employees. Concern has been made by an hon. Member for the employees who are being transferred. What I would like to know from the Hon. Minister is about the protection of the present employees of the Postal Services Department who are public servants, the protection that is given to them under the Constitution which says that before their services can be terminated or they can be reduced in rank certain procedures have to be followed. Will that protection be safeguarded when employees are transferred from the Postal Services Department to this new Corporation? Because if we look at clause 29, it says:

'Until such time as regulations are drawn up by the Corporation, the regulations relating to the schemes and terms and conditions of service in the Government . . . shall continue to appIy . . ."

But what will be the position when regulations are drawn up by the Corporation? Will they in any way detract from the protection given at the moment to the employees in the Postal Services Department?

Again, in clause 71 you will find that it seeks to punish persons who do a number of things but there is an exemption, and that is this. You will find it in paragraphs (b) and (e). Clause 71, paragraph (b) says:

'except in obedience to an order of the Minister or an employee specially authorised by him to make the order, wilfully omits to transmit or intercepts or acquaints himself with or detains any message or part thereof or deliberately causes a call or connection to be disconnected or not to be connected;'

he shall be guilty of an offence. So if the Minister orders this, then he is exempt. He is immune from any prosecution. In effect it gives the Minister very wide powers to detain any message or to acquaint himself with any message or part thereof. When we come to paragraph (e) of clause 71, it says:

'except in obedience to an order of the Minister or the chief executive or the direction of a court, wilfully opens or causes to be opened contrary to his duty any mail bag or postal article in the course of transmission by post or wilfully detains or delays or causes to be detained or delayed the mail bag or postal article;'.

I am glad to see in this clause there the provision of "the direction of a court". I should have thought that in all these cases there should be the direction of a court. I can understand that sometimes it may be impractical to seek the direction of a court before powers to stop or to open any mail, letters, or telegrams are exercised, but one must recognize the right to secrecy and that it is something that should not be openly infringed without adequate reasons and security provided.

Finally, there is the accounts of the Corporation. I see, by the Third Schedule, the third paragraph provides for the auditing of the accounts of the Corporation

'by the Auditor-General or by an auditor appointed annually by the Minister in consultation with the Auditor-General.'

I do not know the reason for including in this paragraph the appointment of an auditor outside the Auditor-General. I would commend to the Hon. Minister that accounts of all statutory boards (and this Corporation will be a statutory board) should, in principle, be audited by the Auditor-General, and no power should be given to the Corporation or anyone else to appoint any other auditor to audit the accounts of the Corporation.

That is all I wish to say on this Bill, Sir. 6.22 p.m.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Rohan bin Kamis (Telok Blangah): Sir, before I support this Bill, I wish to seek the Minister's clarification and assurance on certain items of the Bill. These items are more basic, down to earth, and they will directly affect the welfare of the staff in the Postal Services Department as well as the service to the general public.

According to the written objective on this Bill, it is an Act to give effect to the merger of Telecoms and the Postal Services Department. I feel this may be an administrative convenience because a merger is usually between two equals or two near-equals. However, in this case, taking only the net revenue for the last year based on the published reports, Telecoms had a net revenue of $264.4 million while Postal Services Department had a surplus of $41.5 million which represents only 15.7% of Telecoms' net revenue. Therefore, looking at the financial statements, it is apparent that this is not a merger but a take-over. I am not against take-overs because they can be good for both parties and also provide for greater benefits to the public as can be seen with the previous merger between Telecoms Department and the Singapore Telephone Board to form the current Telecommunication Authority of Singapore (TAS), though that was a reverse take-over in personnel terms.

However, with take-overs, or paper mergers, certain implications arise and this is what I would request for clarification and assurance from the Minister.

First, this merger can be a means of eliminating competition. If this is so, then the general public who is used to a certain level of postal services will suffer. I base this on the statement made by the Chairman of Telecoms in his annual report 1980/81, and I quote:

'With this merger, it is anticipated the services such as electronic mail can be implemented more efficiently and expeditiously.'

I trust that the Minister is aware of a debate going in other countries as to whether electronic mail can and should supersede postal mail. Therefore, does the Chairman's statement mean that now that Telecoms have eliminated or at least contained the Postal Services Department and the competition in postal mail with this 'merger', we (Telecoms) can now go ahead and implement electronic mail and the public will pay us as they will have no alternative?

I hope this is not the case. But I do want an assurance from the Minister, especially more so when Part V of the Bill states that Telecoms will have "exclusive privilege with respect to information communication system". It means there might be a danger of the cost of Postal services becoming more expensive.

Secondly, if this is a take-over as it appears to be, will the staff of the Postal Services Department suffer? The Member for Geylang Serai has spoken on this topic. Usually in take-overs, the current staff of the take-over organization is given terms and conditions of employment which might be less favourable than they have now. This is not so. I am glad that the Minister has assured us of this, especially when the staff of the Postal Services Department are a hard-working and dedicated group of people who have delivered our mail and provide other services under difficult conditions of heavy workload without complaint. If at all, I would like to see that they are given better terms and conditions whenever possible but certainly not less favourable than what they have currently.

Another implication of a take-over is for funds to be siphoned off. In other words, I hope Postal Services Department with a surplus of $41.5 million last year alone will not be viewed by Telecoms as a cash-cow which can be milked for years to come to finance all the other activities in Telecoms, including electronic mail at the expense of the general public.

Going through the Bill, there appears to be no indication of the financial arrangements in regard to the transfer of assets and liabilities. Questions in my mind are things like: what are the estimated savings in annual recurrent expenditure affecting the Government budget, especially when the Minister spoke about the pooling of resources, and, of course, economies of scale and more advanced technology.

I could go on, Sir, but with all due respect and consideration to the Chair, I will summarize by saying that, all in all, the cardinal issue here is the need for a clear assurance from the Minister that our Postal Services Department, which has been providing an excellent counter service all these years because its objective is to provide efficient service, is not in any way buried in the mass of Telecoms, especially when Telecoms may tend to emphasize other priorities than service.

Mr Eric Cheong Yuen Chee (Toa Payoh): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, recently I had the privilege of visiting the Postal and Telecoms facilities to look at how things were done. I was indeed very much impressed with the efficiency and the high morale of the staff in these two organizations.

Twenty years ago the Post and Telegraph Services were under one body. The Telegraph Department later merged with the Cable and Wireless to form the Singapore Telephone Board which subsequently was converted into the TAS.

I would like to seek some clarification from the Hon. Minister, in particular, on the postal facilities. I was given to understand that the present postal facilities at Nelson Road will be moved to a temporary larger and better facility at the former Rollei factory. A new one will also be constructed in Eunos Estate. May I seek a clarification from the Hon. Minister whether this is a prudent move, as this will no doubt involve immense costs in removing two or three times.

Many of us do recall that the TAS has, on account of its efficiency, been able to maintain the costs of telephone services and telecommunication services to the public and even in one service managed to reduce the cost. I am therefore quite confident, after viewing the facilities, that the services of the postal services will be further increased and I think it is our hope that the costs of sending mail will not be increased unduly because of the merger and arising out of this a more efficient service can be rendered to the public.

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to thank the various hon. Members for their support of the Bill. I cannot agree with the Member for Geylang Serai more on his statement that the quality of the information communication services which the new Corporation will provide will depend greatly on the quality of its workforce and the work environment. This is one of the reasons why the Government thought it would be prudent for the postal facilities at Nelson Road to move over eventually to the new complex which will be built in Eunos Estate. We have heard of complaints from the postal staff and also from the late Mr P. Govindaswamy, the previous Member for Anson, years ago when he brought up the plight and complaints of postal workers about the poor working conditions at the Nelson Road Mails and Parcels Centre. The facilities have been improved from time to time but that was only a temporary measure and it was done on a piecemeal basis. We hope we will eventually give them a proper and permanent workplace.

As far as the statement made by the Member for Geylang Serai is concerned, I am sure the present Telecoms and the Postal Services Department are fully aware that the quality of service depends greatly on the quality of its workforce. The Member is also concerned that the new Corporation, because of its size, may become impersonal, with little compassion for its workers. I must say that it all depends on management. Some smaller organizations are more impersonal than larger organizations. So it all depends on whether the management is an enlightened one or not. It is in the interest of the Corporation itself to win over the trust and loyalty of its employees and motivate them into giving of their best. An enlightened management must surely understand this. I am sure the management of the new Corporation will do the necessary in line with Government's policy to develop its human resources to its fullest potential so that the new Telecoms can provide a more efficient postal and telecommunication service.

I understand that upon merger plans will be made to design and conduct training courses to help staff, both clerical and uniformed staff to upgrade their skills. A traineeship scheme will also be introduced for the postal clerks, similar to the one for the Telecoms clerks. Courses will also be developed to enable staff, particularly postmen, to undergo upgrading courses so that they will be able to apply for higher grades in their merged organization, either within the postal services or the other services in the organization, such as artisans and technicians. In-service courses would also be provided to prepare staff to operate the various machines and equipment that will be installed in the future. This will also ensure that they will not be redundant with the introduction of mechanization and automation, besides widening their job responsibilities. All staff of the merged organization will be eligible to apply for training awards, if they have the prerequisite qualifications, which can benefit their career in the new Telecoms. These training awards will enable such selected staff to do part-time courses at the Vocational and Industrial Training Board, Ngee Ann Polytechnic, Singapore Polytechnic and the National University of Singapore.

The Member for Anson has a number of observations. First of all, it is about clause 10 on the appointment of the Chief Executive. He claims that the Minister's power is so unlimited that it appears that the Board would not be able to do anything without the permission of the Minister. I assure the Member that such powers already exist in the present Telecoms Act and the present Telecoms has been able to provide an efficient service - which he has admitted himself - so far with this provision in the Act. I assure him that the Minister does not appoint the Chief Executive himself. The Chief Executive is recommended by the Board and appointed by the Board. Seeking the approval of the Minister is only an additional safeguard in case there may be other factors which may not be known to the Board. The same applies to the appointment of the other members of the Board. The provision for appointment of members to the Board by the Minister also exists in the present Act, and the Minister is normally guided by the Public Service Commission and by the other Board members who come to know of individuals who are conversant and competent in the field of telecommunications and they are nominated and appointed accordingly.

The Member also raised about the content of clause 18 regarding investment of funds elsewhere other than in Singapore. This relates to investment of the Authority on submarine cables outside Singapore, on telecommunication satellite that goes outside the territory of Singapore. I hope that clears the point.

Mr Jeyaretnam: It is not clear to me.

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Clause 18 says:

'Any funds of the Corporation may be invested from time to time in securities . . . be invested or for the development of information communication services whether in Singapore or elsewhere.'

I think the phrase "in Singapore" is quite clear. He is referring to "elsewhere". "Elsewhere" means investment in submarine cables, for example, linking Singapore to other countries. For example, in the submarine cable linking Singapore to Indonesia, the cable will have to be laid from Singapore to somewhere outside Singapore in order to be connected to Indonesia. This is what is meant by "elsewhere" insofar as this investment of funds is concerned. Is it clear now?

Mr Jeyaretnam: I quite well understand about expenditure of money on submarine cables because that would be providing information services for Singapore. That is not my point. The clause would appear to give the Corporation power to invest any funds. It is a question of investment. We are talking about surplus funds for the development of information communication services whether in Singapore or elsewhere.

What I wanted to know was: does this envisage the Corporation taking an equity, for example, in information services undertaken in other countries? It is not the laying of submarine cables between Singapore and other countries but development of information services. For example, in Indonesia there is an undertaking there. Does this mean that the Authority may also join in in that undertaking and invest its funds there and will it get an equity?

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not a lawyer but I thought the last but one line of the clause is very clear on this point. It says that it is the investment of funds "for the development of information communication services whether in Singapore or elsewhere." I am here referring to the investment in submarine cables or satellite telecommunication systems outside Singapore. This is a capital expansion in order to upgrade the level of telecommunication services. This is to cover that part of the investment.

Mr Jeyaretnam: It is wider than that.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Mr Jeyaretnam, would you please not interrupt. If you want to speak, please do get the Chair's permission.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I beg your pardon, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is just that the Hon. Minister was directing questions at me, so I thought I could answer. But I beg your pardon.

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: This particular clause is to make provision for that sort of investment. I am sure the Member for Anson understands that the satellite is not in Singapore. It is somewhere up in the sky.

Clause 71 is necessary to protect the public who uses the services of Telecoms in respect of the privacy and confidentiality of the information which is being transmitted. So I do not understand the point of the Member's objection.

Clauses 28 and 29 refer to the transfer of staff from the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore to the new Telecoms Corporation. I assure the Member for Anson and the Member for Telok Blangah that the interests of these employees will be safe-guarded, as explicitly stated in clauses 28 and 29. As I have explained in my speech earlier on, they will be employed on terms no less favourable than what they enjoy now. If Members were to read clause 29 carefully, they will find that all the safeguards are there. All the various options can be exercised by these employees, whether they want to remain under the pension scheme or otherwise.

As regards the Third Schedule, paragraph 3, raised by the Member for Anson on the appointment of auditors, the Corporation would be happy to engage the Auditor-General as the auditor. Unfortunately the Auditor-General may not be able to accept the appointment because of man power shortage. My personal experience is that first preference is usually given to the Auditor-General to be the auditor for statutory boards. For example, the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation wanted the Auditor-General to be the auditor, but the Auditor-General was unable to accept the appointment and suggested that the Corporation engage external auditors instead. This clause provides that if the Auditor-General is not able to do the job, the Corporation may, after consultation with the Auditor-General, appoint an external auditor.

The Member for Telok Blangah seems to have the misconception that this is a take-over Bill. If this is a take-over Bill, then we need only to amend the existing legislation. This is a new legislation for a new corporation. This Bill seeks to effect the merger of the Postal Services Department and the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore into a new statutory board, and not a take-over of one by another. The Member for Telok Blangah need not fear hat there will be no post offices or postal services after merger. We will continue to have post offices and postal services. As clearly stated by the General Manager, which he quoted correctly, with the merger it is anticipated that the services, such as electronic mail, can be implemented more efficiently and expeditiously, not to replace postal services nor to make the cost of postal services more expensive. As regards the arrangement for transfer of assets and liabilities, these are day-to-day manAgement matters. We will leave them to the management of the two bodies to handle.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House.

The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Ong Teng Cheong].

Bill considered in Committee. 6.52 p.m.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2 -

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Sir, I beg to move,

In page 4, line 3, to leave out ", intelligence or information" and insert "or intelligence".

Sir, this amendment deletes the word "information" from the definition of "telecommunications". The purpose of this amendment, and the subsequent amendment which I will be moving, is to make it very clear that the functions of the new Telecoms Corporation do not include broadcasting and television services or the control of information. These functions should rightly remain with the Ministry of Culture and the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation as provided for in the Broadcasting and Television Act and the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation Act, 1979.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made:

In page 4, line 6, to leave out, "intelligence or information" and insert "or intelligence". - [Mr Ong Teng Cheong].

Clause 2 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3 to 5 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 6 -

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Sir, I beg to move,

In page 6, line 4, after "services", to insert ", except broadcasting and television services,".

Sir, the purpose of this amendment is to make explicit that information communication services which encompass postal and telecommunication services do not include broadcasting and television services.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 7 to 19 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 20 -

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Sir, I beg to move,

In page 13, line 6, after "communication", to insert "system".

Sir, the purpose of this amendment is to specifically state that the exclusive privilege granted to the new Telecoms Corporation is in respect of information communication system only and does not include the provision of all forms of information.

Amendment agreed to.

The Chairman: Consequential amendments will be made:

(a) In page 13, heading, Part V, after "COMMUNICATION", to insert "SYSTEM".

(b) In page 13, marginal note, after "communication", to insert "system".

Clause 20, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 21 to 99 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill. 7.00 p.m.

New Clause - "Excluded This Act shall not apply to - matters. (a) the licensing of any broadcasting Cap. 83. station under the Broadcasting and Television Act or of any broadcasting apparatus or any dealing in broadcasting apparatus Act 33 under the Singapore Broadcasting of 1979. Corporation Act, 1979; and (b) any other matter relating to broadcasting or television under the Broadcasting and Television Act or the Singapore Broadcast-ing Corporation Act, 1979.". - [Mr Ong Teng Cheong].

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr Ong Teng Cheong: Sir, I beg to move, "That the clause be read a Second time."

Sir, the new clause is to make it very clear that the issue of licences for broadcasting station and broadcasting equipment and any other matter relating to broadcasting or television under the Broadcasting and Television Act or the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation Act, 1979, do not come within the ambit of this Bill.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause read a Second time and added to the Bill.

The Chairman: This new clause will be inserted immediately after clause 96.

Consequential amendments will be made -

(i) To renumber clauses 97 to 99 as clauses 98 to 100, respectively.

(ii) In page 51, line 32, to leave out "98" and insert "99'..

(iii) In page (ii) of the Table of Contents, to insert the word "SYSTEM" after the word "COMMUNICATION" in the Heading of Part V, and in the marginal title of section 20.

(iv) In page (v) of the Table of Contents to insert the title of new clause 97 after section 96, and to renumber the existing sections 97 to 99 as sections 98 to 100, respectively.

First to Third Schedules inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported with amendments; read a Third time and passed.