URINE DETECTORS IN HDB LIFTS

Dr Koh Lam Son asked the Minister for National Development whether the new device to detect urine in the lift will soon be implemented in the Housing and Development Board flats in Telok Blangah Constituency.

Dr Lee Boon Yang (for the Minister for National Development): Mr Speaker, Sir, in December 1987, HDB implemented a pilot project to detect urination in HDB lifts. The Board has installed urine detectors in three lifts in Ang Mo Kio, Tampines and Kallang. These detectors are found to be effective.

To reduce the cost of maintaining lifts, HDB will be extending the pilot scheme to include more lifts where there are serious urination problems. Some lifts in the Telok Blangah Constituency will be included in this exercise.

Sir, installation of the urine detecting device on a wider scale has to be carefully considered as urine detectors are expensive to install and maintain. The problem could be more effectively curbed if people are socially responsible and civic-minded. To encourage residents to keep their lifts clean, the HDB will emphasize the proper use of lifts in its social responsibility programmes which are being organized in conjunction with the various grassroots organizations.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon (Alexandra): Sir, can we know how much this urine detector cost?

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Sir, as I said, at the present moment the project is in its pilot stage. Theactual cost, when the scheme is implemented on a wider scale, is still not available at the moment.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister of State has said that it is costly; so he does know the cost.

Dr Lee Boon Yang: We do have the estimated cost but I do not have the exact figure of the estimated cost at the moment.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: If the Ministry would install it in more lifts in Singapore, and I believe the problem is prevalent, would it not allow the Ministry to bring down the cost per unit?

Dr Lee Boon Yang: True, but it will depend on the total cost benefit. If we can educate our people not to urinate indiscriminately in the lift, then I think it would be an even more economical solution to the problem.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon: The problem has been there for the last 10 to 20 years and it has still not been solved.

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Mr Speaker, Sir, this new device which will be installed in lifts which are known to be prone to have such a problem, together with our education programme, I think, we will make better progress because people who now urinate indiscriminately know that there is a possibility of their being identified or being caught in the act.

Mr S. Chandra Das (Chong Boon): Sir, for the benefit of Singaporeans and Members of this House, can the Minister explain what this new device is all about?

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Mr Speaker, Sir, the urine detecting device consists of two components - a urine sensor and a detector module. The detector module is, of course, linked to the HDB central monitoring system which is computerized. The sensor will detect the presence of urine and, unfortunately, it may also detect the presence of other liquids. I believe if people who carry various wet food items and if they are not careful and allow it to spill and drip all over the elevator, it may trigger off the device and which stops the lift at the next landing, and they will have to wait for rescue. But HDB will try to fine-tune the system to minimize any inconvenience that can be caused. But then again, we hope that all users of HDB lifts will be careful not to indiscriminately or carelessly spill liquids all over the lifts. Because whether it is urine or some other liquids, it still needs cleaning. And a wet and messy lift is, of course, something which nobody likes and we want everybody to play a part in preventing this from happening.

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, I have always wondered why the HDB has not bothered to construct public toilets close to the playgrounds or at convenient places in the housing estates. Can the Minister of State give the reasons?

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe this question was asked not long ago in this Chamber. The reason is that the construction of these public toilets will mean extra cost, not only in construction but getting people to look after these public toilets and to maintain them. Otherwise, you are only transferring the problem of vandalism, indiscriminate littering and urination, to the toilet. And you have a filthy toilet there which does not help anybody at all.

The fact is that there are kiosks in the void decks of many HDB blocks. Some of these kiosks are provided with toilets. And one of the conditions of the lease for the kiosk is that the operator must allow the toilet to be used by members of the public. He is, of course, free to levy a charge. There are also a lot of coffee shops in the HDB estates, and these have public toilets which can be used. And my colleague, the Minister for the Environment is making every effort to have these toilets kept in a good and clean condition. So there is really no further need to go around constructing public toilets in the void decks of the flats. Because if you do, you will increase the cost and ultimately it is the people who live there who will have to bear the cost.

Mr Chiam See Tong: But there is a problem.

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Yes, there is a problem but we are tackling the problem, as I said, through a continuous education programme, and this new device will be much more effective than anything else to deter people from urinating in the lifts.

Mr Chng Hee Kok: Sir, I shall like to bring the Hon. Minister of State back to the urine detector device. Will the Ministry consider, in order to cut down the cost, planting dummy devices in all elevators and hang up appropriate signs to say, "This lift is installed with a urine detector device", just as a deterrence?

Some hon. Members: No.

Dr Lee Boon Yang: Sir, I think that will not work. As far as we are concerned, if we install the devices, they must all be effective. Because should people come to realize that they can get away with it, then it undermines the effectiveness, the deterrent effect, of this whole system.

Mr Chng Hee Kok: Sir, actually I was suggesting something similar to camera traps at traffic lights. You rotate the devices every now and then so that residents will not know which lifts have been installed with the real device and which have dummies.

Dr Lee Boon Yang: As far as the traffic light is concerned, he should address his remarks to the Minister for Home Affairs. As far as the HDB is concerned, we will identify those lifts in the estates which are seriously affected by this problem and they will be the ones which will be installed with the the devices.