SPECIAL ASSISTANCE PLAN (SAP) SCHOOLS

1.40 pm

Mr S. Chandra Das (Cheng San GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, firstly, I would like to thank the Minister for Education for his statement on the subject of SAP schools. Since the subject was discussed in this House during the debate on the Presidential Address, there has been much discussion on this subject, both inside and outside this House. It is my firm belief that one key area to preserving and enhancing racial harmony and social cohesion must definitely lie in our educational system. It is through our young that we can ensure the maintenance of racial harmony. Towards this end, I welcome the Minister's statement on this subject.

Mr Speaker, Sir, during the last debate I raised three specific issues. Firstly, for administrative convenience, a good number of schools have streamed their pupils according to second language taken. I believe this has unwittingly contributed to racial segregation. It is necessary for the Ministry of Education to instruct all schools to discontinue this practice. Pupils in our schools must be streamed according to academic merit and not by choice of second language. I believe if this is done there will be greater interaction amongst the students.

The second issue I referred to was the question of some good schools, ie, the popular or better schools, discouraging children enroling in their schools because a particular second language will not be available during curriculum time. I am extremely gratified by the Minister's statement that the Ministry will now try to offer ML2 and TL2 in the better schools during curriculum time. This change will definitely make it easier, particularly for the Malay and Indian children to enrol in the better schools in Singapore.

Sir, the third concern which I raised, and the Minister has addressed it, is my concern with SAP schools. Here I would like to again congratulate the Minister for taking the trouble to discuss this question in detail with the principals of SAP schools and the heads of junior colleges. I can understand the views of the principals of the SAP schools because they cannot say anything else. I took great pains during this earlier debate to explain that I supported the principle behind SAP schools. I asked for a review in the implementation of the SAP programme in the context of promotion of inter-racial harmony. The Minister, the principals of SAP schools and heads of junior colleges are satisfied that there are enough opportunities for children in SAP schools to mix with children of other races, and that there is no cause for concern. This is their point of view and I respect it, except that I am personally not as optimistic as they are. I sincerely hope that they are all right.

However, Sir, I am personally very heartened to note that the Minister has stated that his Ministry will monitor the situation closely and also look at additional ways and means for students in SAP schools to interact with other children in other schools. This, I believe, is a good starting point and this is something we should actively pursue.

Finally, I personally do not think it is necessary to take up the Minister's offer to set up SAP schools for students studying Malay and Tamil. This will only aggravate the problem further. To me, what is most important is that all our students, especially the brighter ones, must have opportunities to interact freely and experience similar environments. I would urge the Minister, and particularly his Ministry officials, to apply themselves further to find ways and means to achieve this.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock (Ayer Rajah): Mr Speaker, Sir, sometimes in our eagerness to preserve certain values and traditions, in this case the SAP schools, we may create some problems or concern. In this case, the SAP schools were seen as institutions not in line with what we are attempt- ing to achieve, ie, a multi-racial Singapore. Sometimes these concerns are not so evident now but may be so in the future. Therefore, as responsible MPs, we should bring this to the attention of this House and, if possible, come out with solutions that will help to allay the fears, in this case, of the minority races in Singapore. That is why after meeting many Singaporeans expressing concerns about SAP schools, I suggested the twinning of schools. And if I could refer you to the Budget debate on 16th March 1990, I said that the twinning of schools should allow the schools involved to develop programmes in the non-academic areas. For a start, like games, having a common rugby team with players from both schools, common football team or netball team and also common cadet or scout groups. If such programmes work out well, then we could extend to other areas. The sharing of academic teaching methods could be explored. Of course, these schools should preferably be sited close to each other and more details can be worked out with the Ministry and I am available if the Ministry needs me to make suggestions. We can work it out.

I would like to thank the Minister for looking into this matter very seriously and for having met the principals of the various schools, and I am very grateful.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Encik Yatiman Yusof): ( In Malay): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for Education for having reiterated, clearly, the Government's stand with regard to SAP schools. In particular, I would like to thank him for his assurance that if the other communities want a similar scheme, his Ministry would certainly look into it. He said this is the logical approach to be taken by a Government that continues to believe in multi-racialism as a pillar of its policies.

Mr Speaker, why the concern about the undesirable side-effects of the SAP scheme? Why has this been raised? I think our concern, including the concerns voiced by the Members for Cheng San GRC and Ayer Rajah, has reopened the debate on this issue and, indeed, these concerns are valid. Firstly, the scheme involves Chinese students from pre-school age going through the critical years of their emotional, intellectual and social development. The lack of exposure to the climate and realities of a multi-racial society in SAP students can to some extent influence their intellectual make-up and social attitudes. To my mind, the question of social attitude is most crucial to the future of multi-racialism in our country.

This brings me to the second concern. Mr Speaker, the students studying in the SAP schools generally comprise those who are able to take CL1. Naturally, these would be bright students with the potential to lead the society in future. Would these graduates of the SAP schools have a positive social awareness and a positive attitude towards multi-racialism? According to the Hon. Minister, the discussion he had with the SAP school principals assured him that these concerns should not exist, that SAP students are in fact able to interact with non-SAP students. But did these principals express their views objectively? The Member for Cheng San GRC doubts if they did, and I feel the same way. For, they are directly involved in the scheme and obviously must have full confidence in it. Perhaps the views of the junior college principals, who have seen how SAP graduates interact with other students, would be more objective. But is their involvement in the various programmes run by the junior colleges a sufficient indication? That is still a question, particularly in the analysis of their social attitude and views. Observing their actions in other situations, for example, during recess or in their mixing outside school hours, or listening to their views on issues relating to multi-racialism in a frank and open atmosphere might perhaps give us different indications.

Mr Speaker, I have nothing against the SAP scheme. If this is deemed to be the way towards tackling certain problems faced by the Chinese community of Singapore, ie, the erosion of their culture and proficiency in Mandarin, I think it is only proper that it should be implemented. However, while we seek to resolve one problem, we have to be sensitive to other issues that might arise therefrom. I therefore welcome the position taken by the Minister for Education when he said that the Ministry would monitor the implementation of the scheme closely. I am confident that, even if he could not accept the Member for Ayer Rajah's proposal to twin SAP and ordinary schools, or the Member for Cheng San GRC's suggestion that elements of multi-racialism be consciously incorporated, the Minister would be ready to make adjustments should any negative indications be detected in the scheme.

Mr Speaker, it is the need to stress on multi-racialism and its elements in this issue that I wish to highlight here. If there is any difficulty in ensuring the students' exposure to the ideal multi-racial climate in the development of their social attitudes, it does not mean we ought to maintain the status quo regardless of the views of the other communities. Thus, I would like today to suggest two possibilities. If the Member for Ayer Rajah wants the twinning of SAP schools, I would ask that the Minister consider the possibility of placing SAP schools under a "one school three wings" or "one school three branches" concept if the Malays and Indians want such school. This idea would mean our students are exposed to an environment with three components. During curriculum hours, they would take lessons meant to impart cultural elements and values but, in the afternoon, during ECA, pupils of all ethnic backgrounds would play and interact with one another. If this is not possible, I would still urge that special subjects dealing with social views and attitudes be offered to SAP students, with emphasis on multi-racialism.

As I make this proposal, I would like to take the opportunity to comment on the points made by an academic who said, inter alia, when he wrote about the SAP schools, and I quote:

' . . . non-Chinese parents in general are made to feel deprived [ie, of their right] in not being able to send their bright children to schools similar to such schools [ie, SAP schools].'

I am not clear what Dr Hussin Mutalib meant when he made this statement, published in the Straits Times of 23rd June. If what he meant to say by "deprived" is that there is a plea for the same opportunity to be provided to Malay students, that is to establish SAP schools specially for Malay students, he should first of all ask whether Malays face the same problems as the Chinese and want the same solution. Mr Speaker, I am not sure that Malays face the same problem, that is, the rapid erosion of cultural values and the need to build a single community speaking one language and not different dialects, as is faced by Singaporeans of Chinese descent.

Mr Speaker, the Malays have overcome the dialect problem and Malay is now universally used within the community. I do not know about future generations, of course.

Secondly, the performance of Malay students in Malay language is satisfactory. This is partly owing to the strong environment that exists for the study of Malay at home.

Thirdly, the number of Malay students taking Malay as a first language, or ML1, is stable. From a total of 322 students taking ML1, 90 of them are in Secondary 1, 81 in Secondary 2, 84 in Secondary 3 and 67 are now in Secondary 4. These figures are the result of a conscious choice made by parents. The problem actually faced by Malay students is in attaining a high level of performance in English, Mathematics and Science. Creating a SAP school specially for Malay students might strengthen the Malay language and enhance awareness of Malay culture but I am not sure if it would not jeorpadize their performance in English. Parents would rather see their bright children studying and succeeding in good schools than in some special school. And for this reason, I welcome the Government's move to introduce ML2 in schools which hitherto did not offer the subject.

Mr Speaker, another no less important aspect is the desire of the Malays to enter the national mainstream and to be a part of our multi-racial society. The right climate for this exists in schools with a multi-racial student population. These two elements are at the heart of our national objectives and I would appreciate it if the Minister could take them into consideration.

Mr K. Shanmugam (Sembawang GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to make two short points on the Hon. Minister's statement. First, on the SAP school and the second, a more general point, on the offering of second language by schools generally.

Sir, on the SAP scheme, I think there is a concern, and I would say a legitimate concern, that a proportion of the brightest children in Singapore may go through 10 formative years without the close interaction with the children of other races. I hear what the Minister says, but I think it has to be accepted that the more time children spend with children of other races or the more time children spend in a multi-racial environment, the greater the empathy will be towards multi-racialism. The empathy factor may be directly proportional to the time spent and, in the context of Singapore, that is an important point. Such close interaction is available in all schools generally. The concern is that it may not be as easily available in the SAP schools.

While I support the SAP scheme, perhaps we could consider one idea. I do not think that it is necessary to set up a separate SAP school for children of other races, but perhaps a multi-racial environment could be created in the existing SAP schools with ML1 and TL1 being offered by the same schools. This would provide a physical environment where children of all races come together but they study the different languages at a higher degree. Perhaps this is just one thought.

The second point that I wish to make is the offering of second language in schools. Generally, I am glad to know the Minister's commitment to make as many schools as possible, and in particular the popular schools, to offer all second languages, or at least the three major second languages. As a matter of implementation though, one point has to be noted. Many good schools now in theory offer all three second languages. But in practice, what happens is that they say they will only offer all three languages provided there are sufficient numbers of students. Popular schools will have a large number of applicants and by the system of selection, students of any particular race may fall below the required minimum in order for the school to opt for the particular second language within their curriculum time.

I can see that it would be illogical to require every school to employ a Tamil or Malay teacher, regardless of how small the number of students is. But I think there are ways around it. Perhaps a few such schools could come together and employ one teacher who could move round the schools. But there may be some administrative problems about time tables and so on. Henry Park School is an example of a school which, for some years, in theory, offered Tamil, but in practice did not, because there were never enough Tamil students to take it. If our education system is moving towards the Japanese system, then what we have is that you need to get to a good primary school in order to get to a good secondary school, and you need to get to a good secondary school in order to get to university. And if we accept meritocracy as the only principle, then regardless of race, all children of all races should have theoretical as well as practical access to all good schools. That is the point I wish to make, Sir.

Dr Ow Chin Hock (Leng Kee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I give full support to the Minister. On this issue, I am behind him.

At the last sitting, I pointed out that SAP students do have opportunities to mix through school sports day, uniformed group activities and ECA; secondly, these students also have opportunities to mix in housing estates; and thirdly, when they go to junior colleges, university and in National Service.

On the issue of inter-racial mixing, there are two basic questions. First, do SAP students have an opportunity to mix? Can they mix? And do they mix? The answers are all yes and in the affirmative. The Minister just now gave us the assessment of the principals from the nine SAP schools and also of the JCs. This confirms my point that the SAP students do mix, can mix, and they do have opportunities to mix.

May I add another point: In the university and polytechnics, students of different racial groups do mix, and you cannot tell among the Chinese students who were from the SAP schools and who were from the non-SAP schools. So we must judge the system by its products.

Another point is a comparative question. In comparison with students of other schools, do SAP students have fewer opportunities to mix with students of other racial groups? The Minister thinks so, as there are very few non-Chinese students in SAP schools. This is an obvious point. But may I counter this point by asking a simple multiple-choice question. Which of the following has a greater opportunity to mix?

(a) An ACS boy living in a private housing estate; or

(b) A River Valley High School boy living in an HDB flat?

The answer is not straightforward. It depends on many factors.

The question simply highlights one particular important point, that is, living or residential environment is an equally important factor, in addition to school environment. So we must look at this question of inter-racial mixing in a wider perspective. In an open, urbanised and highly competitive society like ours, it is not possible for any group to isolate itself from the others and neither is it desirable to do so. Even the Japanese in Singapore cannot do so.

I understand the point made by Dr Tan Cheng Bock and Mr Chandra Das. I never question their motives. But when Dr Hussin Mutalib chose to echo Mr Chandra Das' point in the Straits Times, the debate on SAP schools has taken on a different dimension, ie, a broader dimension. Dr Hussin made two main points. One point is that the SAP system operates in such a way that it prevents inter-racial mixing amongst students. I am not sure whether his point is identical with or similar to Mr Chandra Das' point. But he made another point, and that is, may I quote:

'... non-Chinese parents in general are made to feel deprived in not being able to send their bright children to such schools.

Utilising taxpayers' money, the SAP schools offer infrastructural facilities on a scale not enjoyed by ordinary schools ... .'

He went on to say:

'Given the requirement that students who wish to apply for these elite schools must also offer ...(CL1), non-Chinese students of equal merit are denied access to study in SAP schools if they do not take CL1.'

This is from the Straits Times of 23rd June.

Dr Hussin's letter has drawn sharp reactions and strong rebuttals from readers in both Chinese and English newspapers. He should realise that in a multi-racial and multi-religious society, if he started to query the use of taxpayers' money for SAP schools, then he cannot prevent others from asking whether or not taxpayers' money has been used to fund or support any institution or activity for the exclusive use or benefit of one particular community. And what purpose does it serve? Where will this line of argument and counter-argument lead us to? Will this type of argument undermine the basic principle of racial harmony that we are trying to preserve or maintain?

On the question of equal access of SAP schools, let us not forget the objectives of SAP schools, and the Minister has mentioned them. Let me reiterate them: (a) to teach EL1 and CL1; and (b) to preserve the tradition and ethos of Chinese schools. I have said in this House the last time that if non-Chinese parents are prepared to send their children to SAP schools, I believe SAP schools will welcome that. Of course, these non-Chinese students must be of equal merit and meet the requirements. Every institution has its own requirements. NUS has its requirements in terms of "A" level results, subject combination and language requirement. You cannot say, "I want to join your church, but you change your bible." Moreover, the Minister has repeated his offer. If there is a demand for Malay and Indian students to learn ML1 or TL1, the Ministry of Education will make the necessary arrangements to make this possible. This is an equal treatment and fair to all communities. Whether or not it is necessary to have a Malay SAP school or Tamil SAP school is another question.

Finally, Sir, may I just make a point about the SAP students. They are effectively bilingual, and in that sense they are able to combine the East with the West and it is more likely they will develop a balanced view. And secondly, if they really learn the core values of Chinese teaching derived from Confucianist ethics and Buddhism, to some extent, then they will be more tolerant and more respectful of other cultures and religions.

Dr John Chen Seow Phun (Hong Kah GRC): ( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I support the statement of the Minister for Education.

It is my view that bilingual education, especially the SAP scheme, is a correct and very important policy. We must not only proceed with this scheme but we must also go one step further to improve and strengthen it. Economic development and racial harmony are two requirements that Singapore must have. And because of this, Singaporeans have to use English as a first language. But if the Government does not stress and make efforts to implement the bilingual policy, then eventually Singaporeans will pay more and more attention to English and slowly forget about their own mother tongue and eventually we will lose our cultural heritage and traditional values. In this kind of society, it is not sound and healthy, because the people in such a society will be culturally rootless. Although we may be able to continue to enjoy the present prosperity, when we face a grave crisis, we will become directionless. We will not know what to do, we will lose our ballast, and we will lose our cohesion and strength to face the difficulties and problems.

Let me give you one example. When I was young, I read the stories about the Spring and Autumn Warring States. There was this King of the State of Yue. After a defeat, he spent 10 years reliving the problem, building up himself, going through the difficulties and hardship. I also read about Yue Fei, a hero of the Sung Dynasty, for his patriotism. This kind of story has left a very deep impression in my mind, and each time I come across any setback, I derive encouragement and inspiration from such stories. So I can appreciate the Prime Minister's narration of his experience of having been slapped by a Japanese, and from there he made the determination to build his own nation. This gives me a very good lesson.

The Government has set up the SAP schools to provide the opportunity for students with the interest, inclination and capability to learn their mother tongue as the first language so that we will have a group of students with such linguistic ability to transmit our cultural heritage and to promote literary appreciation in their mother tongue. This cannot be done by Singaporeans generally because they have to cope with the need of learning and using English. So we need such people to take the lead to ensure the continuation of our cultural heritage and the transmittal of such values.

In fact, successful implementation of the SAP scheme is not an easy task. Since its implementation in 1979, whether we have achieved the objective or not, it is still too early to say. According to my knowledge, although 10% of the PSLE students are eligible to go into the SAP schools, only 5% of them select to go into SAP schools. I believe one of the reasons is that the SAP school lacks a certain very important link and, as a result, we do not achieve the desired effect.

Because if we want students to build a strong foundation for a language and to cultivate their interest in the language, we cannot wait until they reach the secondary school. We should start right from the primary school, right from a young age of the students. In my opinion, the SAP schools should not only be continued but they should also be improved and strengthened. And because of this, the Government has decided to set up what they call the "seed" schools. This is a very wise move. I hope that this move will not cause any concern or worry to certain people over the so-called segregation of SAP school students from students of other races.

Mr Speaker, the Minister has already explained why there is no problem to the maintenance of religious harmony in Singapore. I entirely agree with what he has said. As a matter of fact, what is more important is the correct attitude among the various ethnic groups towards one another. Correct attitude must be cultivated right from childhood, right from young. We must teach our students not to have any discrimination or suspicion of other ethnic groups. We must cultivate the idea of universal brotherhood among our students. This I think we have already done. Because if you look carefully at the contents of the Civics lesson in our primary schools, you will see that there are many lessons inculcating the concepts of multi-racialism and multi-racial harmony.

In the past, under our old education system, we have the so-called Chinese schools and the English schools. There are many Singaporeans who have hailed from the Chinese schools. Why is it that since the 1970s we were able all the time to work and live and make progress together in racial harmony? This is because, as the Minister has stated, the Government is determined to support and maintain racial harmony. The various policies of the Government, including the policy of putting various ethnic groups in the same housing estate to ensure that all racial ethnic groups will have the awareness of maintaining racial harmony, are very important. This is the most important reason of our having racial harmony. Thank you, Sir.

The Minister for Trade and Industry (BG Lee Hsien Loong): Mr Speaker, Sir, may I express a personal view on this subject? I have seen several different parts of our school system. I went to primary school in Nanyang Primary School. It is what would nowadays be called a SAP school, purely a Chinese environment. I went to secondary school in Catholic High School, also a Chinese environment but different, because it is a mission school. We had Catholic brothers and quite a number of Indian teachers, teaching not only English but also Science and other subjects. We also had activities with other schools nearby, especially our brother schools, St. Joseph's, RI, etc., and therefore opportunity to mix with kids from other backgrounds and traditions. I spent a year in National Junior College, where students and teachers came together from all the schools in Singapore - English schools, Chinese schools, Malay kids, Indian kids, Eurasians - attending lectures together, sports, games, together. And plus on top of that, for several years as a kid, I was a member of a wolf cub pack in Kampong Jagoh Primary School, most of whose members were Malay kids because Kampong Jagoh in those days was a Malay neighbourhood.

I think I learnt something from each one of these experiences, I would have been the poorer off if I had not undergone them. We do not have a single monolithic homogeneous school system in Singapore, just as we do not have a single homogeneous population in Singapore. There are variations in the traditions, in the ethos of different schools, in the values which are emphasised and the character traits which are brought out amongst the children.

There is a common ground. We all say the National Pledge, we all sing the National Anthem. We all must remember that we are citizens of Singapore together. But in the details of moulding the characters of the kids, each school goes its separate way. And I think it is good that we do not all grow up exactly in the same mould, but are a range of individuals with common ideals and common objectives.

Raffles Institution is a very good school. They have just celebrated a grand dinner last night; many RI boys have been successful Singaporeans. But I do not think we would like all Singaporeans to be like RI boys. ACS is also a very good school, having produced many very successful Singaporeans, but in a different mould. Again we appreciate their contribution to this tradition but I do not think it would be ideal for every Singaporean to be an ACS boy. Similarly with the Chinese schools, whether it is Hua Zhong or Nan Zhong or Gong Jiao. The Chinese schools were one strand of a national tradition, and had their value. I do not know if it is the language in which the lessons are taught, and values are transmitted, or whether it is the way the teachers carry themselves and dedicate themselves to the task of bringing up the kids. But certainly the atmosphere in a Chinese school is different from the atmosphere in an English school, and I am talking about good schools in both cases. In a Chinese school, the teacher goes in, the class monitor says, qi li, stand up, xing li, you bow, zuo xia, sit down. Everybody bows, including the teacher.

It may be a ritual not so different from English school kids chanting "Good morning, Sir", but it is a ritual with some meaning and some influence on the way the kid grows up. If you look at the cut of adult Singaporeans today who have been to Chinese schools, and those who have been to RI or ACS, I think you can distinguish in the adult person the imprint of the formative experiences which he went through. We would be poorer off without any one of these three traditions.

We are not starting from scratch in setting up SAP schools. We are trying to preserve an existing tradition which developed over the colonial period, and gradually eroded somewhat as we went into the national stream schools. Now we are saying let us not go all the way into a single national stream. Let us preserve some of the values of the best components of the earlier tradition.

We know what the outcome will be in a way because, as the Minister for Education said, a SAP school is not the same as an old Chinese school. You are learning both EL1 and CL1. There is mixture with other students. The activities organised by the schools, the principals, are not the same. It should, by all accounts, be an improvement on what we had before.

If you look around in society today, there are many honourable Singaporeans who can say that they have had a good upbringing in the old Chinese schools. So is it wise to let that tradition totally die away, whether by neglect or by policy, by bringing everybody together and say, "No, I will not allow you to have something different because we want everybody to be exactly the same."? Even if you look in this Chamber, many of the MPs have come from Chinese schools - Mr Ong Teng Cheong, from Chung Cheng Primary School and Hua Zhong. Many of the Backbenchers were from Chinese schools. Many of the Malay MPs also have received Malay stream education, at least in the primary school level. We are not the same, but at the same time are we not able to work together as Singaporeans with a common cause?

It is a basic question. To be Singaporeans together, do we have to be identical? In talking about integration, do we have to go all the way? If we were totally segregated, that would be very bad. All the Malays on one side, all the Indians on another side, all the Chinese on the third, and the three never mix, exchange views or just work together. That is a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, if you forcibly stir everybody together, that may not be a good solution either. In America, they have tried this with busing. Some schools were more white, and some schools were more black or more Spanish. By law and compulsion, they mixed the students together so that each school had an equal proportion of all the races. If necessary, they bussed the children, ie, put them into school buses and transport them to some other place so that the proportions will be equalised. It has not led to happy results.

So as we make our own efforts at integration, we also have to allow a certain range of activities. This is the way our policies have been pursued. We talk about integrating HDB estates, integrating so that all the neighbourhoods have a representative racial mixture. But we did not specify a fixed mix, exactly 70% Chinese, 15% Malays, so many per cent Indians, so many per cent Eurasians. We specified a range, so that an extreme of 95% Chinese is out, an extreme of 50% minorities is also no good, but in between there is some free play. In the blocks too, there is free play. We do not require every fifth household to be a minority. In the integrated neighbourhoods, if you go and take a look, all the Malay households are on the lower floors, many of the Chinese households are on the upper floors. Should we interfere? I do not think so. These are personal preferences which we should respect.

In the case of minority activities, an Indian cultural group, a Malay mosque community activity, should we say no, you are not be allowed to do this because it is bringing you away from the mainstream? It would lead to a lot of trouble. We say, yes, do this, but at the same time try to do other activities which will bring you into the mainstream and which will give Malay kids, Chinese kids and Indian kids the opportunity to mix, to get to know one another, and to accommodate one another. So that if you are from a Chinese school and you go into an Indian restaurant down Serangoon Road for the first time, and somebody pours the curry from the pail onto your banana leaf, you feel perfectly comfortable and tuck in with your fingers. I think it can be done.

One of the concerns of the non-Chinese when we talk about SAP schools is that it sounds like more and more Chinese culture is being expanded and emphasised, and is encroaching upon the non-Chinese cultures and traditions in Singapore. I can assure you that that is not the way the Chinese schools or the Chinese teachers look at it. I am not a Chinese teacher, but if you read what they have written about this issue of SAP schools, they feel beleaguered. There is a certain desperate assertion of how important these schools are, and how we must never let them die. It does not say they will take over the world. It says we must never let them die. And they have a point, because even in SAP schools today, the kids are speaking more English than Chinese, despite everything the parents can do, or the teachers can do. The kids often come from professional backgrounds. They speak English at home, they chatter with one another in English. Certainly, they read a lot more in English than they do in Chinese.

So what we are looking for is the preservation of some aspects of Chinese culture, just as we should preserve the best aspects of Indian and Malay cultures. It is a bigger problem for the Chinese population than for the Malay or the Indian population. Because quite frankly, the Malay population does not have difficulty with their children learning ML1. A lot of Chinese parents have great difficulty teaching their children CL1. And even Chinese parents who are originally Chinese-educated and who try to start off their kids using Chinese as well as English, when the kid is a little bit slow to learn to speak, and after 15 months still has not gone beyond "papa" and "mama", they take fright and convert to English so that the child will start talking. Malay kids do not have that problem. I am sure Indian kids do not either. So there is a reason to preserve the tradition and I think the SAP schools are one way to do it.

We will find ways to mix the SAP school kids from other schools with kids from other racial backgrounds. It can be done. It must be done. Dr Tan Cheng Bock has suggested some ways to do this and the Ministry of Education will follow it up. But to say that we are better off without that pillar of our tradition, then we are cutting off one significant leg of a stable tripod and I am not sure that just with the remaining legs the balance will still stand.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: ( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would also like to express some of my personal views on this question.

When talking about how to improve the SAP schools, we should not forget how these schools originally came about. We will remember that since sometime in the past, our education policy has placed more emphasis on the learning of English. As a result, Chinese schools and Chinese school students were decreasing in number. For a time people were afraid that the Chinese schools might be completely phased out. They feared that, if the number of Chinese schools and students should continue to decrease, then it would be difficult to find good Chinese TV and radio news-readers, teachers, newspaper reporters and so on in future. Already Mandarin-speaking news-readers had to be imported from Taiwan. They asked, would it end up in a situation where all Chinese teachers, news-readers and reporters would have to come from overseas?

Government has promoted the so-called "Speak Mandarin" campaign. But speaking Mandarin alone without studying the written Chinese text does not improve the situation. People have expressed their fears in the press about the future of the Chinese language.

And because of the increasing concern in the community that there might not be a sufficient number of Chinese teachers, reporters and news-readers of good standard, Government had to establish the SAP schools to help repair the damage.

Unfortunately although SAP schools are already functioning, there are still fears among many people that the standard of the Chinese language among these schools is still far from adequate.

The question now is how to maintain and improve the standard of the Chinese language in these SAP schools.

We must also remember that the Chinese constitute 76% of the population in Singapore today. However we may try to mix students, we will still have more Chinese students in the SAP schools.

As our Minister for Education has said, the SAP schools are operating satisfactorily today.

I have said on numerous occasions that I will support correct Government policies though I am a member of the Opposition. I support especially some of the new correct education policies. In this instance it is correct for Government to maintain the present SAP schools. The Minister has consulted the principals of these SAP schools, and they have made their position very clear. We should follow their advice.

I feel that the concern expressed by certain Members is misguided and unnecessary. In the past, we used to emphasize on equal treatment of the four streams of education. Now we emphasize on a bilingual policy. Government has to make up for past neglects in the education policies in the interests of the people.

On the issue of inter-racial mixing of students, we must not forget that such mixing is already carried out in many other ways as already mentioned by Dr Ow Chin Hock. There is no need for me to repeat them. There are ample opportunities for mixing in housing estates, public places, sports arena. I feel that it is important to make up for past neglects in certain aspects of our education policy.

Mr Speaker: Order. We will take a break now. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.00 pm

Sitting accordingly suspended at 2.35 pm until 3.00 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.00 pm