HIDDEN_RECENT DEATHS OF THREE SAF SERVICEMEN

look after their commandos, look after their soldiers, look after those who are placed under their charge well, redeem their reputation. That, I know, is the make-up of the commandos. They rise to the challenge.

We will have to work hard in MINDEF and the SAF in the coming days, weeks, months, years, to restore the confidence of the public in the SAF. And that is the reason why I called my commanders in this morning, 400 of them, to speak to them, to tell them that this is a serious matter, pay attention to it, they are responsible personally, and what they do, more than what I say in Parliament today, will affect what the public think of them and the SAF, and I believe that they have got the message.

Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong: Sir, after the death of Sergeant Hu and the other two servicemen, is there any critical incident debriefing and/or counselling conducted for the other trainees and the unit members to ensure that they do not suffer from any post-traumatic stress disorder?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the answer to the question is yes.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, the Minister says that in the last 10 years since 1993, 24 training-related deaths occurred. I can understand NSmen dying from premature explosion of ammunition or even struck by lightning. But I think death from lack of physical fitness is really unacceptable. I can understand why. Some of the boys who go into NS have not taken part in sports at all in school. How can they, within four weeks, be fit to run five miles and complete it within a certain time? I think it is quite impossible. I have done a lot of physical training whilst I was in school. And to be fit, we had to go for training almost every day. Within four weeks, how can these boys build up their physical fitness? I think it is just not possible. Unless, of course, they have been doing some physical exercises in school. An obese person, obviously, has not been involved in sports in school. My question is whether the Minister is willing to talk to the Education Ministry to see whether some of these boys can build up their physical fitness before they go into NS. Otherwise, there will be deaths from lack of physical fitness again.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, I can assure Mr Chiam that I have done so very often. I have spoken to the Minister for Education, sometimes even in my sleep, over this subject. Mr Chiam will know that we have the Trim and Fit Club which has managed to maintain obesity rates in Singapore among young children to around 10%, which is quite remarkable compared to other countries which have the same level of development and access to good rich food, compared to even countries like China, certainly when compared to the United States. Even for this group who is obese, we try to bring them up to a physical standard which allows them to contribute to the nation in national service. That is why we have specially designed this basic military training package to cater to servicemen of different physical abilities. The normal basic military training programme is three months long, but the basic military training for those who have not passed the silver NAPFA standard in school is longer than that. And we categorise the servicemen according to their physical fitness and ability, and customise the programmes to prepare them in a progressive way to meet physical standards.

Two years ago, I went for the Sheares Bridge run. One of the guys whom I was running with was from the obese platoon. He was an officer. He out ran me. At that time when I spoke to him, he had gone back to Pulau Tekong as a platoon commander for the obese platoon to inspire and to train these young men, so that they can also acquire the same level of physical fitness. So they go through a progressive training regime which allows them to build up their fitness slowly.

It is also in the interest of the SAF that we do so because we want as many of our people as possible to serve in combat duties. And by building them up progressively in this way, we get more of them to serve as physically fit and combat fit servicemen.

Dr Wang Kai Yuen: Sir, I thank the Minister for being very frank in his disclosure in Parliament. I think the key task ahead of us now is to restore confidence of Singaporeans in national service, and I hope that he will conduct the investigation in as transparent a manner as possible. On the other hand, having heard the comment on compensation, I would like to find out from the Minister whether the investigation will be conducted under military jurisdiction or will it be open proceedings in a civil court? For instance, will the findings of the committee be published? If the family decides to take action in the civil court, will the Minister be prepared to release the findings to the public?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, we have taken the position that the Committee of Inquiry reports are not released, because they deal largely with internal matters in the way that the Ministry or the SAF works. Also, the rules of evidence and so forth at the Committee of Inquiry are not the same as those in a court of law. The purpose of the Committee of Inquiry is to discover as many things as possible so that we can set them right. This is a different purpose than in a court of law, which is to find whether a person is in breach of the law. We have provided summaries of the findings of the Committee of Inquiry and we will also do so in this case.

In this case, the investigations have been undertaken by the Criminal Investigation Department of the Police. There will also be a Coroner's inquiry. The Coroner's inquiry will be held in open court. And if the cases do come to court, they will be held in open court. There is no reason to do otherwise.

Where no criminal offence has been revealed and the Attorney-General may decide not to proceed with criminal charges against individuals, it is still possible that the SAF may proceed with military charges where we feel that the serviceman may not have discharged his duties in a way which is required under the SAF Act, but which, of itself, does not constitute something which is criminally chargeable in the civil court.

Mdm Cynthia Phua: Sir, as I understand it, there is a safety officer on site at the training scene. Will the Minister reveal the scope of the role and responsibility of these safety officers and their effectiveness on the site itself? I would also like to reiterate the Member's request for an independent safety officer, ie, someone who is not within the command of the unit.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: I have already responded on the matter of the independent safety officer. The issue at hand is really whether the safety officer carries out his duties. In this case, I think the safety officer would be found wanting in his duties. If he had carried out his duties properly, many of these things would have been stopped.

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman (Sembawang): Mr Speaker, Sir, it is quite disturbing to be told that there are such serious violations of rules within an organisation like the SAF. With regard to detecting violations, I wonder whether this is the first time such a violation has been detected. And by virtue of the fact that a death had occurred, were there any indicators that the SAF use to detect other possible incidences of violations, perhaps excessive numbers of servicemen requiring medical attention, not necessarily death as in this instance?

The Minister also mentioned about the ad hoc inspection processess that are in place. Can he describe a little bit more how these inspections take place? Because I wonder whether this particular training programme of the commandos has ever been subjected to such ad hoc inspections. If it has, when was the last time it has been inspected such that any violations before this could have been detected? Can the Minister also assure us that, at this point in time, there are no other similar violations in the other units in the SAF?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, we have a comprehensive system of data collection. In medical cases, we know, for example, that several years ago, many of our soldiers were suffering from problems with their joints, because they were being subjected to very heavy physical training very early in their recruit training and also in their OCS training. And this was something which was not good for the soldiers and not good for the SAF, because we were losing soldiers because of medical downgrading for no good reasons. As a result of studies like this, we redesigned the courses to make them more progressive. So there was more walking with load rather than jumping, running and pounding in the early part of the course to build up the strength of the soldiers, their joints and their muscles/tendons. So there are data collection methods like this.

I do not have the information on when the last time the GSI inspected this particular unit. As I said, this is the 80th course. We have had 6,000 come through this course.

On whether there are other violations, the SAF is currently going through a complete relook of everything to make sure that procedures are correct and they are properly being adhered to. And that, Mr Speaker, Sir, is one of the reasons why I called in the 400 commanders this morning to tell them about this incident, to tell them how it happened and to tell them that they had better make sure that this does not happen in their commands.

Mdm Halimah Yacob: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the case of the asphyxiation, it was just not involving Serjeant Hu. We had six other cases. My question to the Minister is whether at any point of time, there have been complaints received from either the late Serjeant Hu or in the case of the other six cases that they were receiving such kind of treatment. If there have been no such complaints, does it suggest that the trainees themselves are not aware of what is permitted and what is not permitted? And if they are not aware, they would therefore not be in a position to make any form of complaint if there is a violation. Would the Minister then consider also in the case of training, such as combat training, to keep the trainees informed of what sort of training is involved and permitted?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, we have not received any complaints from the members of this course with regard to the training that they had received, certainly not prior to the date of the incident. I think Mdm Halimah has a good point about trainees also knowing what is happening. A good lesson should be conducted with the objectives and so on in mind. But one of the things that we do in training our soldiers is to have to deal with surprises on the battle field. So there is a limit to whether we can tell them everything that is going to happen during the course of the training. Otherwise, the objective of the training may not be achieved.

Mr Ang Mong Seng (Hong Kah): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister is right in that during army training, the safety aspects are taken care of by the Safety Officers, and we have a Commander to take care of all the training courses. I had gone through two-and-a-half years of National Service. I know all these have been taken care of by the SAF. But sometimes the training is done out of the camp. The servicemen go for jungle training and the troop may be a bit far away from the Safety Officers and the medic. I do not know whether the SAF can consider the provision of special equipment for individual soldiers so that in case they encounter any difficulty during the training, they can press a button to call for SOS.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, we can consider such a technical solution. We have a sort of manual solution, if you like, today, ie, a buddy system which is when the soldiers go into camp, they get a buddy and they are supposed to look after each other. So we do not have the technical solution today. We have a "human" or manual solution.

Mr Low Thia Khiang (Hougang): Sir, does the Minister agree that to restore public confidence, the transparency of the SAF is important in order for people to understand how their children are being taken care of during the training? I also wonder whether it would be helpful if the trainees, especially the recruits, know what are their rights, what is required of them when they undergo certain courses, what are the safety precautions that should be in place, and what they are required to do or what they should not be asked to do. Because I think many of the people who have gone through National Service all know that they kena tekan . The point is that even when they are being ill-treated, they may not know that they are being ill-treated, because they do not know what are their rights and what the instructor can or cannot do to them. So I think it would be useful to make known to the recruits or trainees what are their rights and what the instructors and officers should or should not do to them.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, Mr Low brings up a good point. In fact, we have received feedback of this kind before. And that is the reason why we produced the Recruits' Handbook . This particular edition [ indicating ] is the 16th Edition, December 2002. And not only have we done that, we have produced a handbook for the parents. So not only do the recruits know what is allowed and what is not allowed, the parents also know. This particular one is also the 16th Edition, "My Son, The NS Man", January 2003. Inside these booklets - this particular version that I have is in both English and Chinese - some of the things are listed: for example, points to take note before you take the NAPFA test; what the BMT programme consists of, what the requirements are for the various standards in the IPPT, advice on adjustments to community living (because we have many small families now and they are not used to living with each other), even things from camp cleanliness and maintenance to personal appearance.

There is, in fact, a section on what is allowed and what is not allowed in terms of the types of unauthorised punishments. There is a section, on page 37, on the types of punishments which are authorised. And there is, in fact, a list of unauthorised punishments on page 37, and these include things like change parade and running through an obstacle course outside training hours, and so on. So, in fact, it is quite complete.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I sense that the questions repeat themselves in different forms. So, if I may suggest, make your questions specific and short, because we are taking a lot of time on them.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, the Minister has not answered my question on transparency of the SAF.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sorry, Sir, maybe I misunderstood his question. But I thought the Member's question on transparency was that if we provided this information, then it would be helpful, and that would be the transparency that the Member was asking for. And I just mentioned to him that we have transparently provided this information. I am not quite sure exactly what transparency he is talking about.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, with regard to NSman Chew Heng Huat, Andrew, the Minister mentioned that he was obese. So we know that he was probably not very active in sports in school and that he died while doing his proficiency test. He was only short of 30 metres to the finishing line. My question is whether or not for this kind of case, the four weeks' training may not be long enough. Would he look at the period of training? Also, the exercise or the tasks in the proficiency test may be too tough for this type of NS boys. So can he review the tasks in the proficiency test to make them not too difficult for these boys?

Mr Speaker: Mr Chiam, I thought you have gone over that ground. But I would leave RAdm Teo to reply to that one.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I am referring to the proficiency test.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the purpose of the categorisation test is to assess the fitness of the individual so that we can design a programme in the next phase of his BMT to suit his physical proficiency standards, and this is after three weeks of physical preparation after he is enlisted. But I would ask the Army to look again to see whether there are any areas in the suggestions which Mr Chiam has brought forward which are worth implementing.

Dr Lily Neo: May I ask the Minister whether our NSmen receive adequate medical attention and rest when they report sick? Are there too many NSmen labelled as malingerers when they report sick? Have there been more mishaps occurring when NSmen are feeling unwell? And have there been surveys and studies done to ascertain the correlation between feeling unwell and accidents during training?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, I am not aware that we have done any correlation studies between feeling unwell and accidents during training. But the basic philosophy which the SAF doctors practise, and this is something which is a requirement for them as doctors, is to treat those who come to see them, first, as patients, then as soldiers. So this is the priority and the attention which they give to those SAF personnel who come to see them.

Mr Speaker: I will allow for three last questions - Mr Zainul Abidin, Ms Braema Mathi and Mr Tan Soo Khoon.

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed (Aljunied): Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. I have one question. But before that, if you allow me, Sir, to say this. As a father of three sons who had done National Service, and I am sure practically every household has a son who is doing National Service, it must have been quite frightening to learn that such unauthorised training practices have taken place. Parents, therefore, would expect higher discipline and adherence to authorised training. I would like to see MINDEF reassuring the public on that score. On that note, Sir, I am personally reassured to hear that MINDEF take the gravest view of the matter.

Mr Speaker: Your question?

Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed: The question that I would like to ask, Sir, is very specific. On the question of the time lapse which the Minister explained just now, between 1645 hours when SG Hu collapsed and the time he reached SGH at 1752 hours, I wonder whether anything could be done to improve on it, for example, Changi Hospital could have been used instead of SGH for the purpose. And what about the medical facilities at Pulau Tekong itself? Could they be improved?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the timeframe for evacuation in the case of SG Hu was within the norms which have been designed and found to be suitable by the medical professionals in the SAF. A helicopter was used to evacuate SG Hu from Pulau Tekong to Singapore General Hospital. You can imagine the response time was quite fast - to be able to get a helicopter to Pulau Tekong and from Pulau Tekong to Singapore General Hospital.

There are a number of phases in the medical treatment of SG Hu. The first phase was by the medic on the spot at the site. Then, he was evacuated to Pulau Tekong Medical Centre where he was again given medical treatment. Along the way to Pulau Tekong Medical Centre, he was continually treated and also during the evacuation from Pulau Tekong Medical Centre to Singapore General Hospital.

Sir, one must not look just at the timing but also the circumstances of any particular case. Because there will be occasions when the casualty may not be able to be moved for medical reasons and may have to be stabilised on the spot first before being moved, say, from the location where the incident occurred to the next echelon of medical facility, and then again he may have to undergo further stabilisation there before being transported again. This is a judgment, I think, that is best made by the medical professionals on the spot, given the particular case at hand and medical and evacuation facilities that are available.

Ms Braema Mathiaparanam: Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. I thought you are not going to let me speak for half the population.

Mr Speaker: Questions, please.

Ms Braema Mathiaparanam: Yes. I would like to thank the Minister for the transparency. Although we have discussed this issue, I have got three questions. He spoke about 24 deaths. I think it would be reassuring to the public if the lessons learned from the other incidents can be shared with the public, so that we know that there is constant improvement within the SAF where NSmen are concerned.

The second question is with regard to counselling. To what extent will anonymity be preserved because there is a hierarchical system within the SAF, and NSmen who are young would look below to complain about their superiors?

Thirdly, for errant NSmen, what is the system through which they can seek some kind of redress? And what is the system here that we have where you can complain against your superior and seek some kind of justice for any form of misdemeanors?

Lastly, the Minister spoke about the wonderful booklets that have been produced. I would love to know whether they are in different languages. Also for some of them, who are not very proficient with their languages, will there be some kind of oral presentation to them?

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the booklets are in different languages. This particular one that I have here, "My Son, The NS Man", is in both English and Chinese. I imagine they are in other languages as well. As I mentioned earlier, in the Recruits' Handbook , if a NSman has a complaint and he is unable to write his complaint down, we will actually help him to write his complaint down, so that he can seek appropriate redress.

For counselling, anonymity is preserved. The counselling hotline, the number that I indicated just now (1800 2780022), is available, and this is anonymous. Matters discussed during counselling sessions are kept strictly confidential, and I am reading from the Recruits' Handbook , page 30. I have already discussed earlier in response to another Member's question about how

an NSman can raise issues if he feels that he is seeking redress. There is a system through the command chain and there is also a system outside the command chain where he can approach his Member of Parliament, but there are certain rules that have to be observed.

Sir, every time we have an incident or an accident, every time we lose a soldier, it is a painful experience for us because it is one of our boys. And we take it very seriously and we look for ways of improving what we do. And the Training Safety Regulations are paid for with the blood and, sometimes, the lives of our soldiers. That is why the Training Safety Regulations are written that way and that is why the Training Safety Regulations have to be followed. And this is exactly what I told my Commanders this morning.

We have to keep on improving. We have to keep on learning. And I can assure Members that we will continue to do our best to make sure that our men are trained well and that they are trained safely.

Mr Speaker: Mr Tan Soo Khoon, last question.

Mr Tan Soo Khoon (East Coast): Mr Speaker, Sir, much has been said in the past 1 1/2 hours about how servicemen can seek redress for their grievances. I am glad that the Minister has mentioned that one of the rules is for the aggrieved servicemen to see their Members of Parliament. Many of us here have, at some time or other, servicemen coming to us with complaints about ill-treatment. And MPs too have to go through the proper channel in bringing up the complaints to the higher authority. But I notice that, in some instances, when I informed the aggrieved persons, or even the parents of the aggrieved servicemen, of how the complaint is to be raised, they tell me not to take it any further for fear of reprisals by their superior officers or colleagues against whom the complaint is being made. Sir, how can we assure the servicemen with complaints that all their grievances will be investigated in a very fair and thorough way, in a transparent way, and without any fear or favour?

I think the answer which the Minister just gave to Mdm Halimah on whether there were any complaints made about the unauthorised training in the first case is very important. Because I wonder if this is the case of the unauthorised training happening for quite a long time and nobody dared to make a complaint and everyone thought that it might be better just to look the other way. They did not want to have action taken against them because they feared reprisals from their colleagues or superior officers.

RAdm Teo Chee Hean: The point that Mr Tan Soo Khoon raises is well taken, and I have addressed that to some extent. It is important that we have a culture of openness in the SAF, particularly with regard to breaches of safety regulations. That is very important so that these safety breaches are well and quickly reported, and we can take action to redress them. If there are complaints about mistreatment by superior officers, in order for the investigation to proceed and in order to be fair also to the superior officers who have heavy responsibilities to discharge, the person who raises the complaint has to follow certain rules and therefore we will have to be able to know certain details before we can proceed. Otherwise, it will be most unfair also to the officers and warrant officers. But, let us say, if we receive a lot of feedback about a particular unit or particular types of activities, even though they are anonymous and we may not take action on specific cases which are anonymous, this will set alarm bells off, and we will have a look at what is going on with a particular activity or a particular unit. As I said, we also have an inspectorate, and so on, to go around and do surprise checks.

Sir, I would like to thank Members of this House for frankly and openly providing their views on this very serious issue. MINDEF will look into every suggestion and every point raised and we will act on them. This is one of the most serious incidents, if not the most serious incident, that we have had in the SAF of this kind in its history. The SAF will work hard to ensure that we maintain the trust of this House, maintain the trust of parents, maintain the trust of Singaporeans. And, at the same time, we will work hard to make sure that we continue to have a tough, capable SAF to defend Singapore and Singaporeans.

Sir, I thank you and I would like to thank Members of the House as well.

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