LIFT UPGRADING PROGRAMME (Exclusion of cost of structural works from cost-sharing computations)

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LIFT UPGRADING PROGRAMME:

(Exclusion of cost of structural works from cost-sharing computations): 7.

Mr Leong Horn Kee asked the Minister for National Development

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whether the component cost involving structural works such as the provision of lift landings in void areas and access floors and staircases to lifts, should be excluded from the cost-sharing computations for future Lift Upgrading Programmes (LUP) where the residents have to bear a part of the LUP costs.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development (Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman) (for the Minister for National Development): Sir, the Lift Upgrading Programme (LUP) provides residents who live on floors that do not have lift landings with direct lift access. Under the LUP, HDB will either create new lift openings from existing lifts and lift shafts, or add new lifts and lifts shafts to the existing block. The LUP works often involve modifications to the existing lift shaft and the adjacent structural components, such as the parapet walls and floor slabs. Depending on the block configuration, new landing bridges may be constructed to connect the lift and lift shaft to the existing corridors. As these structural modifications are an integral part of the LUP works, their costs should be included in the cost-sharing computation for the LUP.

I would like to reiterate that Government is heavily subsidising the LUP. Residents’ share of the cost is between 5% and 12.5% only, depending on their flat type, and the maximum co-payment is capped at $3,000.

Mr Leong Horn Kee (Bishan-Toa Payoh): Sir, in cases of several HDB blocks built in the 1980s, where there is a need to slab over quite a big portion for lift access, the cost is therefore very high. These blocks are not able to be funded under the present LUP scheme. Would this not be deemed as a structural or design issue and therefore should be borne by the HDB as part of the cost of HDB in not catering for lift access in those blocks?

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Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: Sir, blocks of varying designs and configurations were built by HDB over the years to meet changing needs and preferences of residents at different points in time. For example, as Mr Leong Horn Kee has mentioned, some blocks built in the 1980s do not have common corridors running through the entire block. These are not design deficiencies. These were provided for because, at that time, there were residents who would prefer privacy. Residents who bought flats in such blocks would also have been aware of such structural issues as lift access. So we have to bear in mind the principle behind co-sharing. The principle behind co-sharing is that there must be an issue of shared ownership as well as shared responsibility. I think the residents recognise and probably know some of the limitations. So what we have always told them is that, yes, the cost may be high at this point in time but we will continue to look at new technologies and new possibilities to reduce the cost. But it is not fair for us to say that just because these are structural deficiencies, as Mr Leong put it, it is the responsibility of the HDB and therefore the HDB should bear the cost. While there may be structural deficiencies, there were other benefits which residents enjoyed at that time. They enjoyed privacy whilst other residents had access to lift landings on their own floors.

Mr Leong Horn Kee: My question is that, although at the point of purchase when the blocks were built, this may not be structural deficiency, as the Parliamentary Secretary said, but it is now because the demand or desire is for lift access. Now that there is a structural issue, I still feel that the HDB should look into it as a form of payment funded by HDB for the structural cost.

My second point is, if we do not do that, would the Parliamentary Secretary, or even the Minister, admit that over time,

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we may have a precinct where certain blocks are able to have LUP with lifts whereas certain blocks are without lifts on every floor, because they are not able to fund enough of it to get lift access. Therefore, there may be a discrepancy within a precinct? Would that be an acceptable position of the HDB to allow this situation to persist?

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: Sir, we try our best to make sure that we have lift access to every eligible block. The commitment that MND has given is always that we will try to provide lift access to every floor for all eligible blocks. What does "eligible block" mean? We have certain criteria that we have put in place. One of the criteria is that we cannot allow those blocks to have lift access if the cost goes up to $30,000 per benefiting unit. We have to be fair. We look at the cost. Some of it goes up to as high as $80,000 because the so-called structural limitations make the cost to be that high. And it is very unfair for the other situations where the costs are much lower. So, to be fair to most Singaporeans, I think the cap that we have put is at $30,000. As I mentioned earlier, it all depends on what is available and what we can do at that point in time. We try as far as possible to make it available to all eligible blocks. We cannot say for sure that all 100% of HDB blocks can be retrofitted with lift access, but, perhaps, in the future where technology permits and the cost can be brought down, then those blocks may be eligible.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, based on the same principle of the Parliamentary Secretary on lift upgrading, ie, (i) the cost structure is a consideration for co-payment; and (ii) the owners have actually chosen and enjoyed privacy in segmented blocks and, in that case, residents whose units are located on, let us say, the common corridor, or a unit which is located in a segmented block but with the lift landing, and therefore without the

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need to incur extra cost for additional structure, then why should they be asked to co-pay as well?

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: They are not being asked to co-pay. Those residents who already have lift access to their respective floors are not required to take part in the vote. Those who have got lift landings on their floors, they are not required to pay and they are not required to vote. So those who are required to co-pay are those who are going to benefit from any additional work with regard to LUP.

Dr Tan Boon Wan (Ang Mo Kio): May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary: do the residents really have a choice of flat? The flat type is being built, they are asked to select, and they are allocated. Do they really have a choice? And if they do not have a choice and, therefore, they are caught in a situation, should the HDB not take responsibility that they have designed that, and that is a defect in the long term, in terms of mobility?

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: Sir, we are talking of blocks that were built by HDB some 20 or 30 years ago. We do not know at this point in time whether the issue of them having no choice is really valid, because there is so much mobility among Singaporeans. There is a high possibility that people who are living in those blocks are second-time or third-time owners, and, therefore, they have bought those flats from the resale market, knowing what the configurations of those blocks were, and they were actually making those informed decisions. We do not know at this point in time how many original flat owners are still there. So, therefore, I think it is hard to say at this point in time that HDB should be made responsible for those conditions.

But I think what is important to really take note is that we have to make HDB

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dwellers or lessees co-pay because they must be responsible, there must be co-ownership, and there must be partnership. If we were to just take away all the responsibilities from them, it is as though that we tell them whatever decision they made at that point in time, they are not responsible for it, and therefore the Government is responsible for everything that they are facing today. I do not think that is fair.

Mr Speaker: Mr Chiam, last question.

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, it would appear that LUP works subsidised by the HDB are dependent on whether the works are an integral part of the lift or whether they are structural items. So, am I correct to say that if they are structural, then the HDB will bear most of the costs? And if they are an integral part of the lifts, then the residents will have to pay.

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: No, it is together. It is a whole package. When we talk about lift upgrading, the whole idea is we have to do whatever replacement that needs to be done. We also want to make sure that there is access to the lift landing and there is access to the floors. We have to punch the holes to make sure that there is access. So, it is an integral programme. It depends on the structure of the flats. Some blocks require landing bridges; some blocks require other works.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I have not asked my questions yet.

Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: I thought that was the question that he has asked.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I made a statement first. Is the HDB willing to come together with the Town Councils or residents to decide on what are the items that the residents need to pay and what are the items the HDB needs to pay?

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Dr Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman: I thought that was already asked. That was what I understood the question to be. Sir, when we look at LUP, the whole idea is basically we want to upgrade the lifts to make sure that it is accessible to every floor. What do we need to do? It depends on the structure of the flats. Some flats require landing structures; some flats require more works; and some flats require lesser works. It is a total package. That is why the total package may cost differently between different blocks. So it is an integrated programme with the same objective of creating access to every floor. So, we look at the total package, we divide by the number of possible benefiting units, and that is the cost that is required now.

As far as TC-LUP is concerned, the co-payment is between 5% and 12.5% (that is, the co-payment part of the residents) and the rest are to be paid by the Town Councils.

As far as HDB-LUP is concerned, 5% to 12.5% by the residents, and the rest will be covered by the HDB. So, it is very clear that it is a total package, and we do not itemise. Once we itemise, it will create a lot of difficulties because one will say that is yours, and the other one will say that is mine. So, I think to be fair, to be easy, we have a whole package and we decide the co-payment component, and the rest of it will be the responsibility of either the TCs or the HDB.