LEMBAGA GERAKAN PELAJARAN DEWASA BILL (As reported from Select Committee)

Order for Third Reading read.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have given notice that I wish to move amendments to clause 5 of the Bill.

Mr Speaker: The Bill accordingly stands recommitted to a Committee of the whole Assembly in respect of clause 5 of the Bill.

In accordance with the Standing Orders, any other Member, who wishes to propose other amendments or other new clauses or new schedules, is required now to give notice of his desire before the Assembly resolves itself into a Committee on the recommitted matter.

No other Member giving notice -

Mr Speaker: Committee Stage, what day?

Mr Yong Nyuk Lin: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Notice of amendments has been given to clause 5. There cannot therefore be any dissentient voice, and the Assembly will now resolve itself into a Committee on the Bill.

Bill considered in Committee.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

7.42 p.m.

Clause 5-

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

In page A2, lines 26 and 27, to leave out "from among the tutorial staff" and insert "on the nomination".

Sir, in moving this amendment and the others, I am quite aware that I might evoke the wrath of many Members on the Government side. But, Sir, I believe that the issues involved are so vital to the life of the people in the State of Singapore that I feel that the amendments have to be moved, and I do hope that when the Government side appreciates the issues involved, it will treat the arguments with every consideration.

Sir, as the Bill is presented, it implies that the status of the University of Malaya has so declined that the Government is not willing to give the University the same rights as it is giving to the Trades Union Congress in Singapore; that is, the right to nominate their own representative on the Adult Education Board. I wonder whether the Government realises that, by doing so, it is going to give a slap in the face of the University of Malaya, and it will be a shock to those who believe that the University of Malaya should have the right to nominate whomsoever it will to represent itself on any Board.

I do hope, Sir, that the Government appreciates the importance of the issue. Otherwise, why should there be this difference in procedure with regard to the appointment of a member from the University of Malaya and two members to be appointed by the Minister on the nomination of the Trades Union Congress in Singapore? On what basis is the Singapore T.U.C. considered to be more responsible and more reliable than the University of Malaya?

The second issue which is very, important in the eyes of the public concerns the autonomy of the University of Malaya. In every democratic country, which is a free country, a university in that country is always considered to be autonomous. Therefore, not to give the University of Malaya the right to nominate its representative will give credence to reports circulating that because the Government of Singapore gives large subsidies to the University of Malaya, therefore, the autonomy of the University is going to be impaired, and there will be more and more interference in the appointments and promotions of members of the staff of the University. If this particular paragraph is not amended, Sir, it will give support to the report that, in the opinion of the present Government, the autonomy of the University of Malaya is but a myth. Sir, I do hope that the Government will think it over and, in order to silence the criticisms and remove the fears of the people who are concerned about this autonomy of the University, it will allow the same rights to the University of Malaya as it has allowed to the Singapore Trades Union Congress.

Sir, I do move.

The Chairman: I do not know whether it will be convenient for hon. Members to deal with the second amendment as well. It appears to be a similar amendment to paragraph (g). If it is convenient, then, perhaps, the hon. Member for Tanglin could touch on the second amendment as well.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker. Sir, the second amendment is somewhat similar. It involves the Nanyang University. Here again, Sir, the Nanyang University has not been given the right to nominate its own representative for appointment by the Minister for Education. I hope it was due to an oversight, because recently the Minister has denied that he wishes to control the Nanyang University. Sir, if that assurance is to carry weight with the public, then it is only right that the nominees to the Board should be made by the Nanyang University and the University of Malaya themselves.

The Chairman: It has been moved as an amendment in page A2, lines 26 and 27, to leave out "from among the tutorial staff" and insert "on the nomination".

The Question is, "That the words proposed to be left out, be left out," and in the debate Members will be permitted to range over the next amendment, that is, in page A2, lines 29 and 30, to leave out "from among the tutorial staff" and insert "on the nomination".

Mr Yong Nyuk Lin: Mr Speaker, Sir, if we turn to the Official Report of the Select Committee on the Lembaga Gerakan Pelajaran Dewasa Bill on which the hon. Member for Tanglin served as a Member, we will find that he was unable to forget the conditioning of his own mind over a period of time. It is unnecessary for me to repeat all that was said by him and my reply on the question of nomination, and whether the nominee is a rubber stamp. I think a lot depends on whether a particular person serves as a nominee of Colonial Government or as a nominee of a popularly elected Government. The hon. Member for Tanglin has had the experience of being a rubber stamp in the past - and a very battered one at that. Those who are prepared to serve as nominees under a popularly elected Government would consider it an honour to serve as such, because the new popularly elected Government, as representatives of the people, have a high regard for their standing, their integrity and their capability to produce work for the Government. Therefore, far from there being a smear that they are rubber-stamps, it is, on the other hand, a compliment to them because it shows that they are men of stature.

The Member for Tanglin now raises the question of the autonomy of the University of Malaya. Only a few days ago, the Prime Minister had to say that the University of Malaya is still unfortunately a Colonial university. Let it also be said that there are many people holding high positions in organisations existing today who really do not deserve to be on them. That is why it is necessary for this new Government to decide on nominations and not to leave that to the tender mercies of such organisations. In practice, it will be the case of the Minister consulting the principal executive officer of the institution concerned, be it the University of Malaya or Nanyang University. It is quite clear that the present Government of Singapore considers it necessary, in the case of Nanyang University, that there should be thorough reorganisation. Therefore, it is deeply regretted that the proposed amendment from the Member for Tanglin is not acceptable to the Government side. In fact, all we need say is this: there is an old saying, "Old dogs are unable to learn new tricks." What has been put forward by the hon. Member for Tanglin is just a repetition of what was said in Select Committee, and it failed to convince us. If today there have been slight changes here and there, it is a case of the barking dog, which does not bite.

The Chairman: Order. I think those expressions are completely out of order and uncalled for. The Hon. Minister, I think, does know that when Bills have gone through Select Committees, there is provision in our Standing Orders for recommittal to a Committee of the whole Assembly where it is not just a matter of seven Members considering amendments, but it is a matter of 51 Members. Therefore, the Member for Tanglin is perfectly in order in raising the same topic, which he raised in the Select Committee, albeit he failed to press through his amendments.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I was only asking for the same right for the two universities as had been given to the Trades Union Congress in Singapore. I shall be grateful, Sir, if the Hon. Minister will explain why the Trades Union Congress should be given the right to nominate its own representative and the University should not.

Inche Yaacob Bin Mohamed: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, the Trades Union Congress is not a university. It is an organisation to which all the various trade unions from all sections of life are affiliated. The University is one body without any affiliations, and it is easy for the Minister to nominate one member to represent the University. In the field of trade unionism, if we nominate one representative from a particular trade union, it may cause dissatisfaction. Therefore, the nomination comes from the Trades Union Congress. Since we consider that the Trades Union Congress represents all trade unions in Singapore, we give it the tight to nominate its own representative from its affiliated bodies to represent the workers on the Board.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker. Sir, I do not like to say it, but I have to. May I ask the Government whether the Trades Union Congress has been given that right because the Secretary-General thereof is a Front Bencher?

The Chairman: Order. To start off with, the remark is completely irrelevant. It is completely out of order. Therefore, I ask the hon. Member to keep to the point of his amendments, and not embark on irrelevancies.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Sir, if it is important that at the present stage nominees from the Universities must be nominated by the Government and not by the Universities, I think there is no purpose in putting down here that one member to be appointed by the Minister should be among the tutorial staff of the University of Malaya in Singapore, and another member to be appointed by the Minister from among the tutorial staff of Nanyang University in Singapore. We may as well have it clearly stated that two members would be appointed by the Minister from the educational bodies. That would cover the same point. But the moment the Universities are mentioned, naturally one would expect that they would be accorded the right to nominate their own representatives. That is natural and logical.

Amendment negatived.

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Thio Chan Bee -

In page A2, lines 29 and 30, to leave out "from among the tutorial staff" and insert "on the nomination".

The Chairman: I take it the hon. Member is not moving the second amendment formally?

Mr Thio Chan Bee: No.

The Chairman: The hon. Member is not moving the second amendment.

Mr Thio Chan Bee: Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill will transfer the assets of the former Adult Education Council into the hands of the new Board. Some of the assets were contributed by private individuals. But the composition of the Board is such that out of the 11 members, 7 are Government nominees, 2 are from the Universities but also Government nominees, and 2 are nominees of the Trades Union Congress.

The Chairman: Order. Moment of Interruption.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the Assembly.

Mr Yong Nyuk Lin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee has made progress on the Bill and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Speaker: So be it.