ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR 1966

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [3rd Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

3.09 p.m.

The Chairman: We are now on Head 1002 - Culture Division. There is an amendment standing in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong. Mr Teong.

Head 1002 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1181.

Mr Speaker, the Dewan Bahasa dan Kebudayaan Kebangsaan was established in 1960 after Singapore had self-government. Its purpose is mainly to carry out campaigns for the study of the national language, to encourage the people to learn and use it, and also to help the Government implement its language policy. It is hoped that the different races in Singapore will be able to use a common language in the near future. Since the establishment of this Dewan, it has been working assiduously in the promotion of the national language. Two National Language Months were held this year and we received keen support from all sections of the people. Cultural groups and the Dewan co-operated in promoting the learning of the national language. Because of this joint effort, more and more non-Malays are studying the language. This can be seen from the number of people who took part in Malay examinations in recent years.

Mr Speaker, when people are keenly responding to the movement, we find that there are two abnormal phenomena. The first is that one political Party, which calls itself as representing the Malays, namely, U.M.N.O., has never taken part in the Government's campaign to promote the national language. This causes people to doubt what they say they represent. In actual fact, Malay is their mother tongue. And now the P.A.P. Government has made Malay the national language and has encouraged all people, including non-Malays, to learn Malay. Yet U.M.N.O. has not responded to our appeal, They have totally disregarded and ignored our National Language Month and the promotion of the national language. This is regrettable.

Another political Party is the Barisan Sosialis. They have always been indifferent to the promotion of the national language as though it has nothing to do with them. Yet they claim themselves to be a political Party that supports Malay as the national language. Their claim judged from their action is very doubtful.

In addition to sponsoring and conducting the National Language Month or National Language Week, the Dewan also produces literature in the national language. But I feel that there are other fields of work which the Dewan has not been able to undertake.

3.15 p.m.

I do not know whether it will be able to do work in other fields, such as the compilation of a new Malay dictionary, because when we learn the Malay language, we need more reference books of this nature. Although there are Malay dictionaries available in the bookshops, they were compiled several years ago, and the new words are not found in them.

I also suggest that the Dewan should pay more attention to the promotion of the national language. I feel that the holding of National Language Month once a year is not enough. In addition, it should also hold forums and discussion groups on the national language to encourage and promote its use. For instance, it can encourage students from the primary or secondary schools to learn the national language so that the study of the national language can be undertaken jointly by all people concerned. This will be a great help in the promotion of the national language.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture (Mr Fong Sip Chee): Mr Speaker, Sir, as we know, the national language is accepted by all, as it concerns us and transcends political consideration. The Government is conscious of the need to promote and propagate the study of the national language and also to provide all possible facilities and encouragement to the people to acquire proficiency in it.

In 1965, two National Language Months have been held, and as in previous national language campaigns, a representative committee with members from the public and private sectors, including employers from the Chamber of Commerce and the Manufacturers' Association, and cultural organisations have considered the overall programme of activities.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Sembawang has suggested that U.M.N.O. and other political Parties did not participate fully in past campaigns and that they should do so in the future. With regard to the absence of participation by U.M.N.O., I feel that this question can best be answered by U.M.N.O. themselves. Very unfortunately, they have been rejected by the people to hold seats in this House. However, I shall take advantage of this opportunity to enlighten the House later on our language policy.

I am sure that the Member for Sembawang will agree that the national language is common to and concerns all our people, and efforts to popularise and propagate the study of it should also be a national issue transcending barriers of political ideology, since it has been accepted by all. We therefore hope that in this pragmatic approach of persuading - I said persuading, not forcing - the people to study the national language, members of other political Parties will also fully and actively play their part, since this is in the best interest of the nation.

For the information of the Member for Sembawang, I should like to state that the Government has spent no less than $26,000 on the two national language campaigns carried out this year. And the activities included debates, essay competitions, forums, cultural activities, book exhibitions and, above all, the publication by the Ministry of Culture of a book known as the Istilah, a book on Malay terms and designations of the Government.

With regard to the suggestion by the Member for Sembawang on the necessity to publish a dictionary comprising new words and new terms in the national language, this is indeed a very good suggestion which is worthy of consideration. The Ministry is, in fact, now in the process of making such a compilation. The House will agree with me that it will be highly uneconomical for us to publish a small dictionary comprising perhaps 20 to 30 words. So until such time as the new terms and new words have been collected and put into a sort of dictionary, this book will be circulated first to Members of Parliament and the various Government departments and then to members of the public.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am also grateful to the Member for Sembawang for allowing me this opportunity to explain to the House the general attitude of the Government of Singapore to the national language issue. In a multi-racial, multi-lingual and multi-cultural society like Singapore, we believe that the only way to achieve results is by means of persuasion, that the people should take up the national language as a matter of pride as citizens of Singapore, and not by force, threats and intimidation. As we see, these are very commonly the tactics employed by the language extremists in Malaysia.

Sir, we cannot run away from the reality that whatever statements and opinions are uttered across the Causeway do affect Singapore, and during the short two years that we were in Malaysia, the amount of intimidation and threats by the language extremists did to some extent influence the thinking of the people on the national language issue. We believe that by friendly persuasion and conviction people will take pride, and not fear, in the national language. However, this is the situation and the Singapore Government is now left with the job of clearing the minds of dissatisfied people in this matter.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful for the explanation given by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture. I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Inche Mahmud Awang (Kampong Kapor): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1331.

Mr Speaker, Sir, is this Ministry aware that the News Section (TV and Radio) has issued news emanating from our neighbouring countries whose attitude is one of animosity towards us? Sometimes the news is given wide publicity. Is this News Section still under the control of the Ministry in Malaysia, or are the officers in this News Section run by officers seconded from the Malaysian News Section? What is the attitude or policy of the Ministry on the News Section which issues news emanating from our neighbouring countries whose attitude is one of enmity towards us? What are the changes whereby the news items of our country can be given more prominence than the news from our neighbouring countries? Is it possible that news regarding our country can be given wider publicity?

Mr S. Rajoo (Farrer Park): (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, the radio and television together provide entertainment and scope for the acquisition of knowledge. Radio programmes cannot be of much use to the people unless they are set out properly. The Tamil programmes over the radio and on T.V. have not improved very much. The Government has allocated 15 hours a day for its Tamil programme over the radio. The attitude seems to be one of trying to while away the 15 hours by ---

The Chairman: The item relates itself to the News Section. If the Member is embarking on the whole policy relating to the time allocation of the language programmes, he is out of order.

Mr Rajoo: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am just speaking in general. I am only quoting this as an example. Old tapes are used and old programmes are broadcast on holidays and special occasions, and the officers thus feel that they have discharged their duties. Perhaps some of them think that the Minister of State for Culture does not understand Tamil. But they must not forget that thousands of people listen to the news and view television.

T.V. has been functioning for the last three years and yet there have been no improvements. Outside artistes are not given an opportunity to take part. In general, local radio artistes take part in more programmes. I think that three years is a long period to effect some improvements.

3.30 p.m.

In every nook and corner of Singapore, radios are turned on. But they broadcast mostly Kuala Lumpur programmes. The reason for this is that the programmes here are not up to standard. The Singapore Government gets $12 annually as a radio licence fee from each subscriber. And he has to be satisfied with just listening to the Kuala Lumpur programmes. About seven or eight years ago, a Commission of Inquiry was set up to investigate into the Tamil Section of Radio Singapore. After two or three years of that, I was told that the programmes were good. The Ministry should try to do something to bring up the standard of the programmes.

The highly paid officials of the Radio and T.V. section are not doing their duties properly. They have given most of their jobs to the lower paid staff. I think this is one of the reasons for the lower standard in the programmes. In some cases, applications for broadcasters in the Radio and T.V. sections are invited. Both men and women are asked to apply. A voice test is given to the applicants. When these tests are given to women especially, they are given dialogues of love scenes to read instead, and the men, in reply, give their opinions. In fact, people who are really interested in such talents are shocked by tests of this nature. I hope the Ministry of Culture will be able to remedy this state of affairs so that better programmes can be provided for the people.

Mr Ho See Beng (Bras Basah): Mr Speaker, I have a little complaint against T.V. and Radio.

The Chairman: The News Section, I hope!

Mr Ho See Beng: Yes, the News Section. It seems to me that the T.V. and Radio News Section have given more coverage to the Barisan Sosialis than to the Back-benchers of our Government. Some time last week, when Dr Lee Siew Choh was giving a Press conference, a very good report was broadcast over the radio and T.V. I remember the radio and T.V. did not report even one line of my Budget speech, which contained about eight and a half pages. This is my complaint, Sir.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I will start off with the complaint about the news. There are several daily news casts over the radio and television in the four language streams in Singapore. The radio news is from both the medium and shortwave network. This means that it is heard not only in our neighbouring countries but also in those countries that are much further. As has already been pointed out in the Address by the President, every effort will be made by the Government to publicise fully its policies and activities, especially its reaction to political situations in other countries, particularly in the neighbouring territories. This is essential to Singapore's position as an independent country whose future depends on worldwide orientation and effort. It is equally important to provide an international content in our daily news bulletins for our people and, especially, cover politics and happenings in our neighbouring countries, particularly Malaysia with whom our connections and interest are basic.

With regard to the comment by the Member for Kampong Kapor, namely, that the radio and T.V. have given an undue over-coverage of countries outside Singapore, particularly in Malaysia, I should like to state that we are a democratic country and we are not afraid of any adverse opinions or comments on us. We also feel that the radio and T.V. are a public media which can provide a channel of knowledge to the people, and we are not afraid of letting the people know the truth although it is painful at times!

Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the complaint by the Member for Farrer Park on programme planning, I wish to assure the House that every programme on T.V. and radio is carefully planned and timed, particularly according to the festive seasons of the various communities. However, there are ---

Mr S. V. Lingam (Aljunied): Shortcomings!

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Shortcomings. I thank the Member for Aljunied for that word. There are shortcomings and difficulties that confront us from time to time, difficulties relating to obtaining good artistes - for we wish to maintain a fairly high if not decent standard - and also the technical difficulties. Over the last few years, Radio Singapore and Television have grown considerably. But the studio has not grown. We hope that when the new studio is completed, there will be an overall improvement, to the satisfaction of those Members who have complained about the standard or quality of the programmes.

The statement by the Member for Bras Basah goes to show that we are more than fair to the Barisan Sosialis, notwithstanding the fact that they have decided to boycott the sittings of this House. The Member has pointed out that on one single occasion the radio and T.V. gave a good coverage to Dr Lee Siew Choh at a Press conference given by him, stating the reason why the Barisan Sosialis should boycott this Parliament. This goes to show that the allegation by the Barisan Sosialis that the radio and T.V. are only reserved for the Government use is far from true. We consider that if the people are kept informed of the happenings in our country, whether they are in favour of the Government or are adverse to the Government, then we can build up faster the sophistication of the people, which is very essential to the survival of our country.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr P. Govindaswamy (Anson): (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1371.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government has given equality of status to all the four languages. I am pleased about it. It has also provided certain facilities in the National Library. I wish to applaud the Government for that. But I wish to comment on one point. There are only old books in the Tamil section. This situation should be remedied and newer and better books beneficial to the country should be added. Further, there should be a Tamil clerk to look after the Tamil section. The Ministry should arrange for such things so that these defects will be rectified.

The National Library is in the centre of the city. Therefore, those who are in the rural areas find it difficult to go there. So mobile libraries and branch libraries should be opened up.

There is another point. Those who have completed their education should not waste the knowledge they have acquired; and children, in order to improve themselves, should go on reading. If they continue with this habit of reading, they will be able to contribute better to society. Therefore, the Government should not concentrate the National Library in just one place. There is no point in looking after the books in that particular library alone. We should teach the people how to make use of the facilities of the library. Branch libraries should be opened up. A sufficient number of books should be supplied to those branches. People and children and the future generation should be provided with books for their education and knowledge.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, the observation of the Member for Anson with regard to the paucity of Tamil books in the National Library and the need for improvement in the Tamil service are generally appreciated. I will ask the National Library Board to give further consideration to this matter, and will keep the Member informed in due course as to what will be done.

For the information of the House, the service of a full-time Tamil library officer has been provided since January this year. The number of Tamil books in the National Library has grown from 2,000 in 1959 to over 13,000 at the present moment. The number of Tamil books lent to adults and children has also increased from 3,760 in 1959 to 22,074 in the year 1965, that is, from January to November.

With regard to the suggestion by the Member for Anson to set up branch libraries, I wish to inform the House that the National Library has now two part-time branch libraries in the Joo Chiat and Siglap Community Centres. The Ministry of Culture is seeking the co-operation of the Housing and Development Board to rent or to acquire suitable shop-house premises in housing estates, such as Queenstown, Jurong, Kallang and MacPherson, for use as small branch libraries. It is hoped that in a short while we will have sufficient full-time branch libraries in the densely populated areas and they will replace many of the existing service points.

3.45 p.m.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Hon. the Parliamentary Secretary has given an adequate explanation and I, therefore, beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1531.

Let me quote a booklet published in 1959 by the People's Action Party on its cultural policy:

`We want to promote the cultures of the various races in order to fuse it into a common Malayan culture. At the same time, we want to suppress all foreign and immoral culture in order to prevent this yellow culture from undermining the moral attitude of our people. Many people have been victimised by this yellow culture. That is why we want to suppress the growth of yellow culture to safeguard the healthy growth of the people's minds.'

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have quoted the policy on culture formulated by the P.A.P. in 1959 and ever since the Government has been following it. On the one hand, we are trying to promote healthy culture and, on the other hand, we are ruthlessly suppressing foreign immoral and yellow culture. Therefore, in the past few years healthy culture has been thriving.

But what surprises me is that recently in many cinemas in Singapore, unhealthy and yellow films have been shown. This causes us grave concern. This unhealthy culture can be classified under the following heads: firstly, fiction pictures; secondly, fighting pictures; and thirdly, romantic and immoral pictures. Mr Speaker, Sir, most of these films come from Japan or the Philippines. Their contents are absurd and against ethical values, the stories are very absurd too. Most of these films show armed robberies and illegal sexual relations between men and women. They appeal to people of low taste. They will undermine the minds of our adolescents and young people. If we continue to tolerate such unhealthy films being shown in our cinemas here, they will not only annul the effort we have made in the past to destroy yellow culture, but it will also lead to an increase of all sorts of crime in our society. Therefore, in the interest of the people, I would like to urge the Minister concerned to take immediate action to put a stop to the screening of unhealthy pictures and that the Film Censors Board should carry out more stringently its work in accordance with our cultural policy and allow more healthy films, educational films, films of high artistic value to be imported into Singapore for screening. As a newly emergent nation, we should have the nourishment of a healthy culture to enable the two million people of Singapore to benefit from it and to inculcate in our people a healthy ideological outlook.

Mr Ho See Beng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am in full agreement with my friend the Member for Sembawang that the Film Censors Board must be careful about censoring indecent films. The deleterious effects of indecency, violence, crime and immorality are too well known for me to preach a sermon here. But I think we are becoming too dangerously tolerant or liberal in this respect, and some drastic steps seem to be called for. That much for the Film Censors Board.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have received a representation from a cinema operator and film distributor that delay has been unduly caused by this Film Censors Board. It is obvious that films imported from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, and even for that matter, from Communist China, have been unduly delayed. In this connection, Sir, I hope the Film Censors Board should try to expedite the censoring of these films as quickly as possible. Of course, we may have to be careful that these films imported from the countries I have mentioned earlier have to be treated with the same caution. By all means we agree, knowing full well ourselves the struggles we have been through to defeat anti-national forces. But surely the process of censorship can be expedited with no weakening of our armour.

The grumble amongst the importers of these films is that the Censor authority takes a long time - some three to four months - to screen these films. It is pretty well known that films usually are imported to coincide with certain festive occasions and periods in the year when the importers believe the films will make the biggest impact. You can, therefore, imagine, Sir, their quandary perhaps to find that after having paid through their noses to get the film into Singapore, it does not get through the censor barriers until the season for that picture is completely over. In these circumstances, the importer, instead of having a large box office draw, loses a lot when the film for which he pays so much gets out of season.

I believe this is a genuine complaint, and I hope it will be met. But I want to make it clear, nevertheless, that I am holding no particular brief for these operators. My only interest is that there is a crying need for a sensible arrangement. We do not want our citizens to be deprived of their measure of appropriate entertainment because the wheels in the Film Censors Board move so very slowly. They can be made to move faster so that cinema operators can confidently arrange for the entertainment of this section of the people of Singapore.

Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I have similar views on this subhead. I think the Government's measures against yellow culture have been very well carried out. But I have also discovered that there are some loopholes. Of course, from the point of view of film importers, if Government can only relax certain regulations, they will stand to benefit. If Government can only allow strip-tease shows, this will appeal to them very much because this is in their own interest. However, the Government will have to carry out certain measures in accordance with its cultural policy. This is even more so now that Singapore has achieved independence.

The Member for Sembawang has raised certain points, and I have certain views about them. Sometimes it is not the substance that matters. It may be film importers have used various means to attract members of the public, or perhaps they have purposefully emphasised certain sexual scenes in order to attract members of the public.

4.00 p.m.

Sometimes in a story various means are used to arouse the emotions of the people so as to attract them to these films for their own benefit. I personally feel Government should introduce strict measures to stop the film operators from using immoral means and various sexual appeals in advertising certain films. Some advertisements are really appalling. I have forgotten the titles of these films. In the Tiong Bahru and Tiong Poh areas, I have come across certain advertisements in which there were four ladies in very short panties. They were scantily dressed in order to attract passers-by and these advertisements were placed at street corners. Motorists too were attracted to the advertisements. As a result of this, the lives of others were endangered by these motorists driving their vehicles. I feel it is my duty to point out the very sexual appeal in the advertisements. I am convinced there are other films which have not been passed by the Film Censors Board and these are particularly sexual films of an immoral content. I hope the Board will continue to adopt stringent measures in this respect. There are films which have not been passed in Singapore but have been passed in Johore. So you will invariably find crowds of people going to Johore to view these films which have been extensively advertised in the local Press. Often the advertisements appear in mysterious ways, sometimes even with question marks, in order to arouse the curiosity of the people and make the films more mysterious and more appealing.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, may I begin by briefly informing the House of the policy of the Film Censors with particular emphasis on Japanese films. Out of a total of 900 original feature films dealt with by the Film Censors Board this year up to the middle of December, about 130 were films of Japanese origin, the majority of which were Mandarin dubbed or intended for Mandarin dubbing. Of these 130 Japanese films, about 20 were passed without cuts, 90 with cuts, and 20 banned altogether. This constitutes about the highest figure percentage-wise of films cut or banned. There is absolutely no reason why Japanese films dubbed in Mandarin, or any other language for that matter, should be singled out for unduly rough or harsh treatment by our Film Censors. Sir, the Film Censors Board is fully aware of the nature of these films and each film is censored on its own merits. Censorship of films is carried out in accordance with the terms of the censorship directives which are as realistic and as liberal as possible. Sir, we have no control over the quality of the films. The production of Japanese films is usually and surprisingly high and those that have been released are deemed to be suitable for public exhibition. The reason for the increase in such films in Singapore is in reality two-fold. On the one hand, as stated above, these films enjoy wide popularity and so the exhibitors bring them in in large numbers. Notwithstanding the adverse comments by various Members earlier, there are many people who have commented favourably on Japanese-produced films. Then again there have been criticisms too. These opposing factors, however, merely serve to underline and emphasise what censorship work involves. It is not possible to please everybody at the same time. Differences of opinion must exist, and indeed it is a healthy sign that differences of opinion do exist, for they indicate interest in what is going on around us. But they must be aired in the spirit of give and take. No one sector of opinion should impose its will upon the other with absolute finality. Sir, even when the Board makes a decision on the film, that decision is not final. It is subject to appeal by the exhibitors to the Film Appeals Committee. They could bring it up for decision by the Appeals Committee. Sir, the decision of the Appeals Committee - whose members are appointed annually by the Minister and who come from various walks of life - over-rides that of the Board. There are many films which were partly or wholly rejected by the Board but were released for exhibition by the Appeals Committee either with less cuts than they originally required or completely uncut.

Sir, allow me to deal briefly with some of the comments made by the Members earlier. We must not forget that we are an affluent society and, therefore, the situation has now completely changed since 1959. We will have to be more liberal in our approach, but that does not mean that we completely lose sight of our Party's policy. It is difficult, particularly in a place like Singapore which is multi-racial, for one to impose the standard of morality of one community on another with differences in background, education, culture and tradition. No one can claim that he is an arbiter of morality. Nevertheless, we consider that film censorship in Singapore is about the strictest in this part of the world. We are so strict that, as pointed out by the Member for Delta, there appears to be a one-way traffic going across the Causeway. I say good luck to the bus companies and the film exhibitors in Johore Bahru. Sir, this goes to show that our policy is different from that across the Causeway. We are more liberal with films which have a political aspect. But we are very strict with films that we consider detrimental to the morality of the people of Singapore.

Sir, the Member for Sembawang has implied in his comments that we are responsible for not showing films of educational value. The House will appreciate that the contents of production and the number of films on educational aspects are completely out of our control. In as much as we try to bring up a very cultured and refined society, we must also not forget entertainment. I am sure the film companies and film exhibitors are very sensitive about profits and, therefore, we at least must be as cultural and as entertaining in the execution of the Film Censors' work.

Sir, the Member for Bras Basah has complained of the undue delay caused by the Film Censors Board. I wish to state that we view films practically every day, sometimes up to eight or nine films a day, and there is no undue delay as suggested by him. We normally notify the exhibitors of the films that are banned or passed with cuts, and if they so desire, they may appeal to the Appeals Committee. If the films are banned altogether, the Film Censors Board normally returns them to the exhibitors well in time for them to return to the distributors. If the Member could assist me by quoting one instance of which film was delayed, I shall take up the matter with my officials and see to it that no undue delay will be caused in future to any film submitted by any film exhibitors. I would also call upon the Member for Delta and the Member for Sembawang to quote me specific instances where they consider Japanese films, or for that matter any other films, are undesirable in order that we may consider their opinions. Perhaps we may even adopt them in our film censorship policy.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture just now in his reply has said that our society is different from that existing before 1959. This is undeniable, of course. But in the past we were a colonial territory; now we are controlling our own fate. Ours is an independent country. Therefore, everything will have to be decided by ourselves. Everything should progress with time. We should also remember that the development of culture is multi-fold. It depends on how we guide its development. It is not right that if in 1959 there were Yang Ko dances, we should pursue them also this year. It is not logical that we should pursue now what has taken place in the past. Our culture is developing with the times; it should also be able to accommodate the racial characteristics and habits of the different communities in order that the cream of the various cultures can blossom forth and contribute to the general culture of Singapore. Since such evil things as mentioned by the Members have happened, we should take steps to control them.

4.15 p.m.

Mr Sim Boon Woo (Changi): Mr Speaker, Sir, we have heard discussions on film-goers in Singapore, films censored in Singapore and those barred from film going in Singapore. I have never been a frequent cinema-goer, so I do not know what is going on in the cinemas. But what I would suggest is that we should have a movement for a healthy culture - healthy dances and dramas and so on - to compete with the so-called not-so-good culture or a bit yellowish culture, which hon. Members have mentioned. I quite agree that we should uphold the good name of our citizens. Therefore, I urge every one of us to show some responsibility and try to inculcate in our citizens a better sense of culture by organising and helping our people to organise themselves and compete with what we call yellow culture.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, I think we have discussed this topic long enough. Various views have been expressed. Just in reply and no more. Just one last speech.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I am glad to hear the speech of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Culture. He said that, in regard to culture, the Government's policy would not be contrary to what has been laid down in 1959. I am glad to hear that. I also agree with him that one section of the people cannot impose the characteristics of its culture on the other sections of the people. I should tell him that I have never mentioned that we should do so. I have never said that Chinese culture is the only one that is healthy or that Western culture is the only healthy one. So if the Parliamentary Secretary has been vague about this in his speech, I hope he will clarify. As regards the film, "War and Peace", there is also some controversy over it. Even among Western pictures, there are also good ones. I consider "War and Peace" a good film. We should judge films according to their contents. I am glad to say that the Parliamentary Secretary has assured us that the Government will in its policy on films pursue the same policy as has been laid down. So I give my support to him.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, when I say that no community should impose its standard of morality on the others, I was making a general statement, and I hope the Member for Sembawang will not be unduly sensitive about this matter.

Sir, I will try to clarify one point which the Member for Delta has brought up earlier; that is, there appears to be an absence of healthy films in Singapore. As I have said, Sir, we have no control over this matter. We only censor what is submitted to us. And if the film producers do not intend to produce films of educational value, we do not receive them and we do not censor them. With regard to those films that are submitted to us, as I have said earlier, we censor them according to their own merits in accordance with the established policy of the Ministry of Culture.

The Chairman: Mr Teong, do you wish to proceed to a vote?

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Lingam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of item 2 of subhead 2091.

Sir, this is for information only. Though the sum here is $550, I just want to know what has Broadcasting got to do with the Caldecott Hill Estate.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Mr Speaker, Sir, Caldecott Hill Estate, where Radio and T.V. Singapura are situated, is private property, and except for the portion where the studios and the officers of the Broadcasting Division are situated, the roads in this estate are private roads. Just as every householder on the site has to contribute to the general maintenance of the estate, the Broadcasting Division also has to contribute its share towards grass-cutting charges at about $30 a month, repairs to the private roads, sewers, etc. The money asked for in this item is its share for this purpose.

The Chairman: Is the Member satisfied?

Mr Lingam: (In Tamil): I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Lingam: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, I wish to take both amendments (6) and (7) + together as they deal with more or less the same matter.

• Amendment (7) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3261

The Chairman: Very well. The Member should move amendment No. (6)* and he can speak on both.

Mr Lingam: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1002 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2222.*

Our Government is going to complete the building of its new television studio, and when it is completed the four language streams will present programmes for all the people in a very good way. This was stated in the President's Address. We welcome it. However, I have to air my views on certain shortcomings in the programmes.

A few weeks ago we celebrated our National Language Month - on stage, in community centres and in the Press. We gave it a lot of publicity. We talked and wrote much about it. There were daily special programmes over television. You also might have seen and listened to all these programmes, Mr Speaker, Sir. "Bahasa Bersama" is the title of one of the programmes. Girls were shown in this programme. The television camera was focusing on the breasts of these girls. Perhaps the camera man was very happy about it. But the people are not very happy about it. We have to condemn such activities. It is the duty of the Government to do so.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Tamil Section of Radio Singapore should be improved. Although more time has been allotted on T.V. for Tamil programmes, we never see any good programmes. I hope the Head of the Tamil Section will look into this. After the Radio news, a report is given of the parliamentary proceedings whenever the House meets. In this programme, Members' speeches are reported. I have listened to them. But there is one shortcoming. Last night, at 8.45 p.m., the Tamil Section gave a broadcast on the parliamentary proceedings. It was stated that I had requested that television sets should be installed in all the wards in Middleton Hospital. This is wrong. What I said was that the children's wards in all the hospitals should be provided with T.V. sets. I hope such mistakes will not occur in future. At times the people have criticised radio programmes in the newspapers, particularly in the Tamil newspapers. When such cases come up, the Ministry should not just keep quiet but should take action to remedy the defects. It should also announce to the public that such criticism could be forwarded to the Minister direct.

The Chairman: Discussion may also take place on amendment No. (7) . Does any other Member wish to speak before I call on Mr Fong?

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, I would like to congratulate the technicians who produced the film on the national language because at least it succeeded in attracting the attention of the viewers. Sir, Mr Lingam has pointed out some undesirability ---

The Chairman: The Member for Aljunied.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: I am sorry. The Member for Aljunied has pointed out some undesirability in the camera technique of the particular film which he had seen. However, the interpretation of the meaning of that film is left to the individual. If the Member for Aljunied chose to interpret it in that sense, then I have no control over his feelings. But I will, of course, instruct my officers in future to take into consideration the opinions and comments as expressed by the Member for Aljunied which I consider very constructive.

With regard to the misquotation of the parliamentary proceedings last evening over the Radio Tamil network, I was given to understand that the debate was on Middleton Hospital, and it was quite natural that the report should have stated that the Member had requested that television sets be installed in every ward in Middleton Hospital. However, I agree with the Member for Aljunied that that was not exactly what he said in this House, and I have instructed the officers concerned to be more careful in future.

Finally, I wish to assure him that the mistakes were not deliberate but inadvertent.

4.30 p.m.

Mr Lingam: (In Tamil): The Parliamentary Secretary has not answered my last question, i.e. the criticism from the public or criticism by newspapers could be sent direct to the Minister, and this promise should be given to the public, and publicity should be given.

Mr Fong Sip Chee: Sir, the Ministry is always alive to constructive criticism, and I assure Members of the House and, for that matter, members of the public, that any letter whether written direct to the Minister or to a local newspaper, will be attended to and discussed by the officials in the Ministry. And if the contents of the letter are found to be constructive in nature, we will then take them into consideration and will remedy our shortcomings.

Mr Lingam: (In Tamil): I withdraw my amendments.

Amendments, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $15,810,190 for Head 1002 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1003 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Mr Speaker, our Government is one that looks after the benefits given to the people. Annually we appropriate a sum of more than $10 million for public assistance. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Affairs has already stated that last year public assistance came to $10 million. But this year it is only $9 million. This shows that there is a reduction in public assistance, and the reason given is that the number of people seeking assistance has decreased and, therefore, the expenditure also has decreased.

Yet I have received many complaints from members of the public that their applications to the Department concerned for assistance have been delayed unduly. What are the reasons? I would like the Minister concerned to look into the matter and to see how best to deal with it. Our Government is a Government that looks after the interests of the people, especially the poorer class, and we should be sympathetic to such people who apply for public assistance. The staff in the Social Affairs Department, being public servants, should be sympathetic to people who need assistance.

I know that recipients of public assistance are mostly aged people who have no means to rely upon to make a living, and widows, widowers and other destitute people. Some of these people have been unemployed for quite a long time and are unable to get some means of support. Their situation is very difficult and should merit our sympathy. Therefore, since our Government is one that looks after the interests and welfare of the people, special attention should be paid to this matter so that we can be of assistance to them. Yet there are some Government officers who are not properly carrying out Government's policy in this regard, and so they have not been able promptly to deal with cases in, say, approving applications and giving out the assistance. The recipients earnestly hope that they will be able to receive their aid in time, because they have to incur various family expenses, such as rent for their house and other things. As far as I understand it, the delay has been even up to six months, and the shortest delay is three months. So I would like the Minister concerned to investigate and see whether there are such instances of delay or not.

I would also like the Ministry concerned to give special attention to applications for public assistance from people in rural areas. Usually when replies to these people are delayed for several weeks, they will have to go to the Social Welfare Department to enquire, thus incurring transport expenses to town and also expenses for their meals when in town. We know that these poor people cannot afford such expenses, and if the Department concerned can help them, it will reduce their burden.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Affairs (Mr Chan Chee Seng): Mr Speaker, normally it takes about two weeks to consider an application for public assistance from the date of its registration, for the application has to be investigated, processed, and given a decision. However, there are cases where applicants - (a) have furnished incorrect addresses, (b) leave addresses which are difficult to locate, and (c) require a thorough investigation into their circumstances. In all these cases, some delay is unavoidable as more than one home visit will have to be made and a fuller investigation required.

In the last few months the Social Welfare Department has had to cope with special assignments, for example, the relief and rehabilitation of victims of civil disturbances in July and September 1964, the special assistance scheme for fishermen who were affected by the curfew imposed in Singapore coastal waters in early 1965, and a special scheme for payment of rent subsidies to Malay families who are affected by the Government's redevelopment scheme. As a result of these special assignments, investigation officers have had to be taken off their normal public assistance work. This has resulted in an unavoidable slowing down of investigation of public assistance cases.

Action is in hand to recruit more staff for the public assistance section. It is hoped that with the employment of additional staff, it will be possible to speed up the investigation of public assistance cases.

The Chairman: Does that satisfy the Member?

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Yes. Mr Speaker, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government has established many creches and rendered facilities to the people. However, more creches should be built so that parents can be relieved of a heavy burden. Quite a number of parents have to go out to work. Therefore, they have no time to look after their children. I hope the Ministry will take adequate steps in this connection.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, at the moment the Department maintains a total of ten children's creches and 16 children's centres. The creches provide care and training for children of a few weeks' old to five years of age, whose mothers are working and who cannot afford to send them to private kindergartens. Every child is given breakfast, lunch, and tea, and free medical attention is provided.

The creches are open from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Mondays to Fridays and from 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Saturdays. The ten creches have a daily total average attendance of over 300. It has been found that the ten creches, which are located in various parts of Singapore, appear to have met the need for this type of service, so that at the moment there is no demand for an extension of service. In fact, a number of our creches, for example, those at Manila Street and Bukit Ho Swee, are not filled to capacity.

The 16 children's centres run by the Department have a daily total average attendance of over 1,000. These centres provide elementary education for children who, for some reason or other, cannot be admitted to the schools run by the Ministry of Education. They are open from 9 am. to 5 p.m. on Mondays to Fridays and from 9 a.m. to 12 noon on Saturdays. The children attending these centres are from 5 to 13 years of age. They receive snacks of milk, vitamins, buns, and free fruits. Free medical and dental treatment is also provided. All these children's centres are located in existing community centres run by the Peoples Association, and it is possible that the hon. Member is referring to these centres rather than creches.

The question of increasing the number of children's creches will have to be considered in relation to the availability of staff and the need in each locality. In fact, the position has been under constant review h the Department of Social Welfare

4.45 p.m.

If the hon. Member would like to suggest particular locations where there is at present no children's centre and where he considers the establishment of such a centre is desirable, the matter will be looked into by the department.

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): Mr Speaker, Sir, I refer to the centres where children are looked after when parents go to work. Those are the particular institutions I am referring to. I am not talking about children's centres which cater for education. What I mean are creches where the parents leave the children when they go to work. These children are taken away by their parents later in the day when they return from work. I am saying that these centres will be beneficial to the parents. I feel that all community centres should run this sort of centres, thereby making it convenient for parents to go to work. I hope the number of creches will be increased. I was not referring to other matters. I was referring to creches.

The Chairman: Mr Chan, do you wish to add anything more? Yes, Inche Othman Wok.

The Minister for Culture and Social Affairs (Inche Othman Bin Wok): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think there is any possibility of starting a creche in the community centres because most of the community centres especially in the rural areas are being used during the day time. In the morning, for instance, they are used for selling pig food and other things. There are also centres run by the Social Welfare Department and these are used by the public from three o'clock in the afternoon. So if you have working parents who wish to leave their children in the creches, that means they have to take back their children at three o'clock and not at five o'clock because both parents usually finish their work at about 5 p.m. However, the Ministry will look into this matter further to satisfy the Member.

The Chairman: In views of the reply, does the Member wish to pursue the matter?

Mr Govindaswamy: (In Tamil): I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ng Yeow Chong (Mountbatten): Mr Speaker. Sir,I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2062.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is observed that there is an unusual increase in the Estimates for the year 1966 from $2,500 in 1965 to $86,500 in respect of this vote. Does the Government expect more destitute persons in 1966 or is it due to the under estimate in 1965?

Mr Speaker, Sir, under subhead 2063 the provision of $9.6 million has been estimated for public assistance to unemployed persons. I do not understand why there is such a need for this vote. Sir, I begin to suspect that we are gong to face a situation in future in which there will he an influx of destitute persons from the other side of the Causeway. If this vote is meant for repatriating these destitute persons hack to the other side of the Causeway, then I say. Sir, it is unfair for our hard-earned revenue to be spent on this. However, this is the responsibility of the Malaysian Government. We should hold the Malaysian Government responsible for this expenditure. Mr Speaker, Sir, this is only my assumption. Nevertheless, I should he grateful if the Minister for Culture and Social Affairs would kindly enlighten this House on the utility of this vote.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, this provision is used for assisting destitute and stranded persons and for the purchase of rations for feeding victims of civil calamities like fires and floods. It was the practice in previous years to make a standard provision of $2,500 per year and to supplement this provision from savings under other votes in the course of the year should the provision be inadequate. For 1966, however, the provision has been increased to meet additional payments as follows:

(a) Special relief to fishermen who have been adversely affected by the curfew imposed in the coastal waters around Singapore. Fishermen families affected are given assistance at the rate of $5 per person subject to a maximum of $30 per household; and

(b) Special grants of $5 per person to victims of fire and other calamities which in the past were charged to a public assistance vote. It was considered inappropriate to charge this expenditure to the public assistance vote and the transfer of liability to this vote is to regularise the matter.

The Chairman: Mr Ng, does that answer satisfy you?

Mr Ng Yeow Chong indicated assent.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendments stood in the names of -

Mr Chow Chiok Hock:

Mr Ng Kah Ting:

(4) That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1 of subhead 2063.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi:

Mr Sim Boon Woo:

(5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2063.

The Chairman: Amendments (4) and (5) relate to the same subhead 2063. Amendment (4) relates to item (1) , whereas amendment (5) relates to items (1) and (2) . Now, if amendment (4) is not proceeded with and amendment (5) is moved, then both Mr Chow Chiok Hock and Mr Ng Kah Ting can speak on amendment (5) . Is that agreeable to them?

Mr Chow Chiok Hock and Mr Ng Kah Ting indicated assent.

The Chairman: Very well then. amendment (4) is not proceeded with. Amendment (5) - Inche Mohd. Ariff bin Suradi.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi (Kampong Kembangan) (In Malay): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2063.

Mr Speaker, each recipient of public assistance from the Social Welfare Department realises and knows that the money given to him is not for his maintenance but to assist him to stave off hunger. If I am not mistaken the head of a family gets $21, his wife gets $10, and each child under the age of 18 years gets $5. This total is at times reduced by the Social Welfare Department. For instance, when an inspector from the Social Welfare Department comes round to investigate a family receiving public assistance, the person is asked whether it is sufficient or not. The officer knows that the amount is insufficient. But because the recipient is sincere, he says that he has to seek other means of income. When it is found that he has other means to get some money, for instance, by selling cakes and so on, so as to enable him to pay for the transport expenses of his children, his public assistance allowance is cut. This is very unsatisfactory because the assistance given to such recipient is inadequate and, therefore, he has to find other ways to augment his income. So the method employed by the inspector in carrying out his investigations into such matters is unsatisfactory. On getting the answer, the allowance is cut for the coming month. If an elderly person is entitled to public assistance and he stays by himself - if he merely stays in the place for shelter - he is given only $4 and not $21. This too is a matter about which I feel most unhappy. Although he should be getting $21, he is not given it simply because he has to stay with someone else. For this reason he is given only $4. So, Mr Speaker, I request that the Minister concerned re-consider both these matters that I have raised.

Another matter which I would like to raise concerns the public assistance given to Malays who are affected by the urban renewal scheme. Those who are affected are given subsidies of 20 per cent. I would like to remind the Minister for Culture and Social Affairs that quite a good number of Malays who are not affected by the urban renewal scheme are keen to stay in flats but because of their small income, they cannot afford to do so. I would like to know from the Minister whether this assistance could be given to those people who are not affected by the urban renewal scheme but who wish to stay in flats,

The Chairman: I think possibly this would be a good time to take the tea break.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order, I shall suspend and resume the Chair at 5.30 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.00 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.30 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head 1003 (contd.) -

The Chairman: Head 1003, Amendment No. (5). Inche Mohd Ariff Bin Suradi has already spoken. Mr Sim Boon Woo.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I share the same view as the Member for Kampong Kembangan on the matter of public assistance, as I am facing the same difficulties with the voters in my constituency. I would like to add that in my constituency there are fishermen living in Bedok, Padang Terbakar, Mata Ikan, Ayer Gemuroh, Kampong Changi, Pulau Tekong Besar and Pulau Ubin who are affected by the imposition of the off-shore curfew due to the Indonesian confrontation. Sir, all of them have registered for public assistance, but not many of them have been entertained by the Social Welfare Department. I would like to draw the attention of the Minister to this matter, and I hope he will be able to enlighten this House on the measures he proposes to implement for assisting these poor fishermen.

Secondly, I would like the Minister also to inform this House that if an applicant for public assistance has two wives, whether both of them will be included in the assessment of public assistance allowance. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock (Ulu Pandan): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, under this Head, we see that the Government is voting $9,600,000 for 1966 and yet for 1965 it was $10 million. There is a great difference in the vote. We can expect, therefore, that some applicants for public assistance may not be able to get assistance, because of a reduction in this vote. Just now the Member who spoke on this subject also mentioned this.

I would like to ask the Minister concerned a few questions. To give an example, if a couple have two children and they get $30 public assistance with no other sources of income, they will not be able to maintain themselves and their two children on this meagre sum. Therefore, under these circumstances, possibly one of the family - maybe the wife - will have to go out and do some work, such as washing clothes for others, in order to get some extra income which will be about $30 per month. Under these circumstances, the couple's public assistance from the Social Welfare Department might be cut by the same amount. Let us also say that one of the children gets a temporary job at a salary of between $30 and $40 a month. Such a meagre income may be enough for the child's expenditure, but it is likely that the Social Welfare Department will cut off all the assistance given to that family. Thus this will give the public the impression that the people who get public assistance from the Social Welfare Department are those who stay at home and do not go to work and that if they go out and make some money for themselves, their allowance will be cut by the same amount that they earn. So they might as well not go to work. They might as well depend forever on public assistance. These things are quite common in my constituency and that is why I mention them in this House. There are such cases in my constituency.

I would now like to give another example. An aged couple with no children drew public assistance of $20 per month for quite some time. After paying their monthly rental, they had nothing left. They had no other alternative but to seek other means of income. This couple told me frankly of their plight. They said that they could earn an income of about $20. They wanted to know, if the Social Welfare Department officers approached them in the course of their investigation, whether they would have to tell the officers frankly about this extra income. Since I have to look after the interests and welfare of the people in my constituency. I was in a dilemma, not knowing what to tell them, whether or not to advise them to tell the Social Welfare Department officers frankly that they were in receipt of an extra income of $20.

So I hope the Minister concerned will deal with this kind of cases and adopt a better method whereby if any cut were to be made in public assistance to any family, he should take into consideration other facts and cut only the part in respect of the working members of such a family. I hope he will give due consideration to this matter.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to associate myself with the views expressed by my three colleagues who have spoken before me. I notice that $10 million was estimated for this year and $9,600,000 for 1966; a vast sum of $400,000 has thus been deducted. I say "a vast sum" because we know that people look to public assistance not because they like to enjoy the bitter bread of charity but because of extreme financial circumstances.

So in view of this, I would like the Minister to enlighten this House on the reason for budgeting $9.6 million for next year.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, I think one has to face a lot of hard facts in life. Getting money from the Government is one of them and the Government has a duty to look after the taxpayers' money and not just pay it out without looking into the matter.

May I, first of all, answer the Member for Kampong Kembangan on the point he has raised just now? As the total payment under the public assistance scheme has been rising very steeply from $7.2 million in 1961 to $9.7 million in 1963, and as a result of reports received by the Department of large numbers of public assistance recipients receiving public assistance under false pretences - the majority of recipients who find jobs fail to report to the Department and continue to draw public assistance although they are no longer eligible - it was decided to start a systematic review of all public assistance cases in April 1964. As a result of this review, it has been found that, on the average, about 20 per cent of public assistance recipients are bogus cases. This review has enabled bogus cases to be closed and the money available for public assistance relief to be diverted to the really deserving cases of families whose heads are genuinely unemployed. Public assistance recipients whose allowance has either been stopped or reduced can always appeal to the Assistant Director (Public Assistance) for reconsideration. On receipt of an appeal, the case is reinvestigated and if circumstances are disclosed which merit the continuance of public assistance relief, the case is reinstated.

5.45 p.m.

As for the second point raised by the Member for Kampong Kembangan on housing subsidies, for the time being, the subsidies are only confined to those Malay families who are affected by urban development projects, who have a total income of less than $300 and who wish to occupy Housing Board flats. But as for the others who are not affected by urban development projects, the Government, of course, is willing to study their cases.

The other point raised by the Member for Kampong Kembangan is that those who are staying with friends have their subsidies deducted. I hope that the Member for Kampong Kembangan can take up such cases with our Minister. We shall look into these cases also.

Coming back to matters raised by the Member for Changi, according to the records of the Social Welfare Department, a total of 163 fishermen living in Changi have been referred to the department for assistance under the scheme. As a result of investigations carried out by the department, 22 of these families have been found eligible and have been given assistance under the scheme. The balance of 141 were found ineligible for assistance under the scheme for various reasons. For example, some have been found to be already in receipt of public assistance; others have found alternative sources of income which render them ineligible for assistance. Secondly, there are cases in which a public assistance applicant has two wives and both of them are included in the assessment for public assistance relief if the department is satisfied that both of them are without income of their own and are dependent upon the applicant.

As for the Member for Punggol, it will take a considerable time to go through the records of public assistance pensions for a number of recipients in Punggol constituency, as the records are kept for Singapore as a whole and not broken up by constituency or by area. In fact, a number of requests have been received from Members of Parliament asking for a list of public assistance recipients in their constituencies, and the Social Welfare Department has been hard put to it to provide the necessary information. Members of Parliament who have asked for this information and have not been supplied with it are requested to be patient, is the work involved in the compiling of the information required is quite considerable. It is regretted that it will not be possible to inform the Member for Punggol of the number of applications which have been submitted to him and which have been successful, as this will involve searching through every public assistance file which has been opened for the last 5 or 6 years. As there are about 30,000 public assistance cases in action, it will be appreciated that this involves a considerable amount of work which the public assistance section, which has a lot of work daily, will be unable to undertake at the moment. I think these are the points raised by the Member for Punggol.

As for the Member for Ulu Pandan, he has raised the point that public assistance relief be paid to recipients who are engaged in casual work. Under the public assistance scheme, relief is paid on the basis of a means test under which the following limits of income are not taken into account - first, a recipient with no dependants, $10; second, a recipient with one or two dependants, $15; third, a recipient with three or four dependants, $20; fourth, a recipient with five or more dependants, $25. Thus a public assistance recipient who has five or more dependants and who earns, say, $50 a month from casual labour will be allowed to retain $25 of his income. The remaining $25 will have to be deducted from his public assistance allowance. In some cases, however, it is difficult to ascertain the amount of income earned by a casual labourer; and in such cases, a rough and ready rule is applied and the average monthly income is estimated at $40. Each case is, of course, treated on its own merits and where there are special circumstances meriting sympathetic treatment, the recipient is usually given the benefit of the doubt and, where possible, the minimum amount deductible under the scheme is deducted from the public assistance allowance.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi: (In Malay): If there are bogus cases, not only should their assistance allowance be stopped, but the due process of law should be taken against them. But if the cases are genuine, then the matter should be considered. I have put forward four cases to the authorities, but to no avail.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I must thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture and Social Affairs for replying to what I have not asked for; that is, I had intended to raise the matter, but I did not say just now that I wanted information on the number of recipients of public assistance in my constituency. However, I am still grateful to him.

Anyway, he has not answered one little point, that is in respect of the $400,000 that has been deducted from 1966 Estimates. I will be grateful if he will be kind enough to enlighten this House on why the $400,000 has to be deducted next year.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, I think this is due to the bogus cases. Some bogus cases have been uncovered; so it seems that we will have enough funds for next year's expenditure.

The Member for Ulu Pandan has said that action should be taken against the bogus recipients of public assistance allowance. I think we have definitely taken action against them. He said that we have not looked into the matter, but I think the Minister has told him outside this House that he can submit his cases to him and that he will be prepared to look into those cases which are not being looked into.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi: (In Malay): I withdraw the amendment.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: I also withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Lingam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2081.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I just wish to elicit information only; what is this allowance and to whom is it given?

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, Sir, this allowance is for the foster-mothers. The fostering out scheme has been administered by the department since 1956 and provides carefully selected foster-mothers to look after children up to the age of 10 who cannot be brought up in their own homes or who, for some reason or other, have been deprived of normal maternal care; for example, when the mother is ill or has been hospitalised.

The fostering-out of the child is an assignment which calls for careful consideration and selection, and it is vitally important that he is placed in a home where the foster-mother is capable of understanding him and where he is likely to find a happy adjustment, the aim being to provide him with the best substitute for a home. Foster-mothers under the scheme are paid from $50 to $60 per month according to the age of the child placed in their care and, where possible, parents are encouraged to make a contribution towards the cost.

Mr Lingam: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap (Geylang Serai): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1003 be reduced by $100.

I am not satisfied with the Social Welfare Department's assistance to the needy in Singapore, because this department does not carry out its investigations fully in respect of a recipient's dependants who are in need of public assistance. There are applicants whose living conditions are appalling. But there are also applicants who possess their own homes and some are living in rented homes. The same amount of public assistance from this department is received for the same number of dependants. I am sure that those applicants who are living in their own homes are not in a bad plight because of the public assistance they receive. But for those applicants who have to pay house rents from the public assistance that they receive, this may mean more difficulty.

6.00 p.m.

I shall give an example to explain such a case in my constituency. A family lived in a Geylang Serai flat belonging to the Housing and Development Board. When the head of the family first occupied the flat, he was employed in a small Chinese firm. Not long after, the firm wound up, and he became unemployed. He applied for public assistance from the Social Welfare Department and he received an amount of $46. The rental of his flat was $46.50, not including water and light.

Because the public assistance he received was insufficient to support his family, he had to wash clothes and his daughter had to sell cakes. When an investigator from the Social Welfare Department came to know that he was earning some money by washing clothes and selling cakes, his public assistance was stopped, although he had explained his circumstances to the investigator concerned.

Similarly, the special allowance given to a person who lives in his own house is $21. In the case of another who is a lodger, the allowance is $4. When the person appealed to the Department concerned in order to get more public assistance, he was advised to move out and live on his own, which means that he would have to rent a room. If he can only get $21 from this Department and he has to pay a rental of $20, then the balance will be a paltry sum. This will cause more hardship to him. I hope this matter will receive due consideration by the Ministry concerned.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, under the public assistance scheme, the rates of payment are in accordance with certain rules of eligibility and a means test. Those Malay families living in Housing and Development Board flats and are receiving public assistance have been paid in accordance with the scheme. To give any special treatment to those families under the scheme will raise difficulties in the administration of the public assistance scheme. However, if there are such families whose circumstances require special consideration, it may be possible to assist them in other ways outside the ambit of the public assistance scheme. I would suggest to the hon. Member that he give the particulars of such families to this Ministry, so that we can ask the Social Welfare Department to look into the matter.

Inche Rahamat Bin Kenap: (In Malay): I thank the Parliamentary Secretary, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $14,746,770 for Head 1003 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 1004 -

Mr Ng Yeow Chong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1004 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2011.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I merely want to know why the provision for this subhead for the year 1966 is double the amount estimated for 1965. Consequently, if I may say so, Sir, the efficiency of the Fire Service should increase. There is always the fear that whenever there is a fire, the houses in the affected area are more often than not gutted before the arrival of the fire engines.

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Chan Chee Seng: Mr Speaker, this provision is for paying rental charges to the Telecommunications Department for the use of V.H.F. radio sets. These V.H.F. radio sets are used as a means of quick communication between the fire engines, ambulances, fire officers and fire stations. The increased provision has been made necessary by the increase in rental charges imposed by the Telecommunications Department, which in most cases have been doubled. For example, the rental previously charged for a mobile set was $800 per year. This has been increased to $1,200 a year.

Mr Ng Yeow Chong: May I have leave to withdraw, Sir?

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $3,012,640 for Head 1004 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 1101 -

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy ---

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1101 be reduced by $100.

The Chairman: Mr Govindaswamy is absent,

The sum of $274,740 for Head 1101 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 1108 -

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1111.

Sir, at present there are about 60 boats anchored regularly at the jetty at Upper Serangoon Road. These boats are used for deep-sea fishing purposes. I think well over 90 per cent of them have boat licences. But I noticed that these licences were obtained not in Singapore but from our neighbouring country, Malaysia. The size and tonnage of these boats range from 80 horsepower upwards to well over 15 tons.

Sir, I do not understand why these fishermen do not obtain their boat licences from our Fisheries Division in the Primary Production Department. I think that licences obtained from elsewhere will do us no good, because we lose revenue. So I would request the Minister for Law and National Development to look into this matter with a view to issuing Singapore boat licences to these boats, so that, in one way, we can get revenue for our country's coffers, which is our due by right. Sir, I beg to move.

The Minister for Law and National Development (Mr E. W. Barker): Mr Speaker, Sir, in answer to the Member for Punggol, I do not intend to tell a fishing story, but there is a little history behind all this. Whilst we were part of Malaysia, certain Singapore boats preferred to obtain their fishing licences from the State of Johore, because boats registered in the States of Malaya were given preferential treatment by the Malaysian Navy Patrols, and it was for that reason that the boats from Punggol obtained their registration in Johore and left their nets in one of the coastal towns in the east coast of Johore whilst operating and selling their catch in Singapore. With the separation, however, the position has now changed, and the owners of these boats have been informed that at the end of this year their licences, on termination, will not be renewed in Johore. As from the 1st of January next year, these boats will have to be registered in Singapore.

As for the revenue, I would like to point out to the Member for Punggol that the amount of licence fees involved is negligible, but I agree with him on the principle of his speech.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for his explicit explanation to me, and I beg leave to withdraw this amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1259.

Mr Speaker, could you allow me to speak on my amendment No. (3)* too, namely on subhead 1269?

*Amendments (3) reads as follows:-

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1269.

The Chairman: Yes.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, this is a small matter, but I hope the Gentlemen in this House will not criticise me for speaking on what appears to be touching on the equality of the sexes.

6.15 p.m.

According to the Government's policy, some car parks are covered while others are not covered. The covered car parks are in Cecil Street (the multi-storeyed car park) and at Raffles Place. The open parking places are along the roads. The parking time-checks are done by the staff - and not by machinery or meter - by men and women attendants. I would like to mention that certain women attendants have been sent to sites which are not suitable for them, e.g. Shenton Way and Robinson Road, which are quite remote, and there are no lavatory facilities. If women car park attendants are sent there, it will cause them a lot of inconvenience.

I would like to ask the Minister concerned whether women car park attendants could be sent to these covered parking places. I do not mean to say that these women attendants cannot stand the sun or rain, but what I would like to see is that they are sent to more suitable places to work. I would like to ask the Minister concerned to give some consideration to this matter. At the same time, I hope he will consider recruiting more women car park attendants, as the figures now show that there are more men attendants than women attendants.

Another matter is about the time-checks and the handling of fees. At the moment, this sort of job is done by men car park attendants, and no women car park attendants have been allotted this job. I feel that the handling of parking fees should also be assigned to women attendants, because they are more suitable for this job. I hope the Minister will make some adjustments in this respect.

The Chairman: The Question is, "That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1259."

In speaking on the amendment, amendment No. (3) may also be taken into account.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development (Mr Ho Cheng Choon): Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Member for Delta has asked three questions which are in a way surprising from a champion of equality of rights for men and women workers. She is now suggesting that we should give preference in the recruitment of parking attendants to females and posting them to covered car parks; and we should also permit the checking and handling of money within car parks to be done by female attendants, as females are more careful. The selection of car park attendants for appointment is done by a special committee in the Ministry of Labour and approved by the Public Service Commission. It is not for the Ministry to say whether the committee should select or the Public Service Commission approve male or female attendants. It is Government's policy to make no differentiation whatsoever between male and female officers. It is also patently unfair to reserve the softer jobs - the jobs that are within the covered car parks - for female parking attendants, while the male parking attendants should be posted to do outdoor work. Car-parking attendants, by the nature of their appointments, are required to attend to the many car parks in different parts of the city, and he or she must discharge all the duties of the post which he or she holds.

In the past, there have been some complaints that certain car park attendants were favoured in that they were given work in the office or in covered car parks.

Now, Sir, it has been decided that there should be a proper roster drawn up so that every car park attendant would do the same range of duties, both indoors and outdoors, on an equal basis, irrespective of whether or not the attendant is a male or a female.

It is not possible for anyone to be certain that female officers are more careful in the handling of money than male officers. The Car Parks Division must, of necessity, treat every officer as being equal. There are no posts of checkers as such in 1965, but there will be new posts created in this way in 1966, and car-parking attendants will be selected to fill the posts of checkers, but the selection will not be based on sex, but rather on the merits of each candidate.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development has given me a reply, and I would say that from the start I had already told the House not to criticise me when I was going to mention something about the treatment of women. Actually, I am not trying to get more favours for women. I only hope that the Minister can, more or less, give some consideration to them. I am not requesting him to reduce the working hours for women car park attendants, but because of certain conditions peculiar to women - judging from objective circumstances - he should give some consideration to the fair sex. It is not a question of giving more favourable treatment to women, or to assign them to covered car parks. It is only a matter of administration, and I hope that the men, the opposite sex, will not be too harsh in this respect, and I think that all the Members here will agree with us, because usually the men will say, "Ladies first!" This is really a very simple matter. I am not requesting a favour; I am making a request based on human nature.

Just now, the Parliamentary Secretary also mentioned that the recruitment of car park attendants should go through P.S.C. selection. Of course, I was not suggesting that the P.S.C. should select men or women for certain posts. But the question is that, in inserting advertisements in the Press, the Department concerned could stipulate that there should be a certain quota for women applicants or a certain number should be filled by men applicants. So this actually has nothing to do with the P.S.C., but it has something to do with the Department which is going to put out advertisements to recruit members.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think Members of this House should be grateful to the Member for Delta who, before the Government could take up the suggestion of having a Women's Research Institute on the problems facing women, has done some research on her own. I, for one, have not been able to put myself in the position of the fair sex and think of the problems facing female parking attendants.

Now, we all know, of course, Mr Speaker, that there is a difference in the problems facing men and women; for instance, men have got woman problem, and women have got man problem! So the only thing that I am wondering about is whether it would be appropriate for men to solve women's problems, or for women to solve men's problems, because, as the saying goes among women, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." But we all know that all gastronomic delights are best prepared by men! In the same way, women who are inclined to solve the problems of dressing in order, shall we say, to solve their man problem have got to go to men dressmakers, too.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as regards the problem of female car-parking attendants, the problem that was posed by the Member for Delta has never occurred to me, and that is the difficulty of female attendants getting certain facilities in certain places where they are posted. I am sure that my colleague, the Minister for National Development, who is a great admirer and respecter of the female sex, will certainly look into this problem and see that the appropriate facilities are there, or failing that, that women will not be posted to places where there is a shortage of such facilities.

6.30 p.m.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, in regard to the debate on male and female parking attendants, I have known from my own experience that in many progressive countries, women workers can compete with men in all walks of life. This shows that their countries want to progress. If the women can adopt such an attitude, I am sure they can beat the men folk, and that the men folk will not be able to beat the women folk.

The Member for Delta should urge women parking attendants to show greater efficiency to their male counterparts. Only thus can they solve their problems.

Mr Chow Chiok Hock: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I am not speaking on behalf of women. But it seems that there is only one woman Member in this House now - the Member for Delta, The other woman Member is not present now. But I feel that the men in this House should not be too harsh to the Member for Delta. She has mentioned the facilities which should be given to female parking attendants and their allocation of work. In this House there are only two women Parliamentarians who can speak on behalf of women. There are 49 gentlemen here in this House speaking on behalf of the men in Singapore. Since we have more spokesmen for the men in Singapore, of course, we should allow more latitude to the two spokesmen for the women. We should give more consideration to their speeches. I would also urge the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary concerned not to quibble too much over their request.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, I merely want to reply to what the Member for Kampong Kapor has said. Just now the Member for Kampong Kapor has mentioned the principle of equality for men and women, and that the women should do an equal amount of work to show the men. I have said just now that the female car park attendants are no different from the male parking attendants in so far as work is concerned. They both work eight hours a day. What I was saying was that certain facilities should be given to female parking attendants. That is to say, I am referring to the welfare of the female parking attendants. In certain areas, the sites are not suitable for female parking attendants. Of course, I will not go into details about this. Otherwise people will accuse me of talking too much and it will not be becoming of me to talk in great detail about this. It is not really a question of equality of men and women, or women and men.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Health (Mr Sia Kah Hui): Mr Speaker, Sir, as there is a disparity in the number of female and male Members in this House, I would like to be on the side of the Minister for Finance who has spoken gallantly on behalf of the women. I think it is only right, as the hon. Member for Delta has indicated, that lack of facilities is certainly a very important factor. I think the Minister concerned would gladly accede to her request.

The Chairman: Madam Chan, it seems that it is generally agreed that more facilities should be made available. In view of that, would the Member pursue the matter?

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn

Mr Ng Yeow Chong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2034.

I notice that there is an increase in the estimates for 1966 from $8,330 in 1965 to $51,470 for this vote. This is a tremendous increase. There is a great need to conserve Government funds for better utility. Such an unusual increase is unwarranted if there are no major or new development projects under the Primary Production Department which require overtime work to cope with the extra amount of work. Mr Speaker, Sir, this House would be happy if the Minister would enlighten us on whether or not it would be more practical and justifiable to recruit new workmen and labourers instead of paying the existing employees overtime allowances. This would give more employment to a great number of unemployed in Singapore.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, I can assure the hon. Member for Mountbatten that it is the Government's policy to provide employment rather than to pay overtime allowance. But, in fact, there is no increase in the overtime allowance for 1966 as compared with 1965. In past years, overtime allowance was included in the individual items of expenditure, such as labourers' wages and allowances, daily-rated staff, watchmen, etc. In 1966 the Budget section of the Ministry of Finance decided that overtime allowances must be taken out of the individual items of expenditure and put into one lump sum under one separate subhead, as a result of which $51,470 was entered in the 1966 Estimates. I can assure the hon. Member that there has, in fact, been no intention to increase the overtime allowances.

Mr Ng Yeow Chong: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2183.

Sir, I have come to understand that the penghulus receive an allowance of $50 a month and the ketuas receive an allowance of $35 a month. These allowances given to the penghulus and the ketuas of the islands are, in my opinion, insufficient.

Sir, the penghulus and ketuas act as liaison officers between the Government departments and the islanders. As far as I know, the work of the penghulus and ketuas is that they bring the islanders to the Government offices to pay house assessments, property tax, changing and applying for identity cards, birth certificates, death certificates, and so on. A penghulu from Pulau Tekong, that is from my constituency, will, for example, spend $2 as launch fare to Changi Point and back. Another $1.50 is spent on bus fare from Changi Point to the City and back to Changi Point. And perhaps a few cups of tea or coffee and lunch will cost him, say, about $1.

Sir, since the expenditure incurred by the penghulus and ketuas in carrying out their official duties is considerably high, I wonder how much the penghulus and ketuas from the Southern Islands will have to spend. Therefore, I would suggest that the allowances for the penghulus and ketuas be given considerable increment.

Sir, my argument is that since the pro-Communist Barisan Sosialis M.P.s can be paid a tax-free allowance of $500 each to fight our own people, I think it is fair that the penghulus and the ketuas who are working for the interests of the people should be paid a little bit more.

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Changi has raised the question of allowance to the penghulus and ketuas. In fact, the allowances given to the penghulus and ketuas are not emoluments or monthly salaries as such, but rather reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses for transport and incidentals which a ketua or penghulu will reasonably incur in discharging his duties.

The Government is of the view that the present allowances, which were raised not very long ago, are adequate to cover such out-of-pocket expenses. If a ketua or penghulu can show that such allowances are not adequate for this purpose, then his case can be put up for consideration.

6.45 p.m.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, the point that I raised was a point which I know from the penghulus from my constituency. And as far as I can gather from the hon. Member for the Southern Islands, the penghulus do all the work and they do not have any extra earnings from the islands. Therefore, I am urging this House to consider whether a considerable increment can be given to complement their allowances.

The Chairman: I think the answer given by the Parliamentary Secretary was that this is not a salary but an out-of-pocket allowance. Is that the point the Parliamentary Secretary was making?

Mr Ho Cheng Choon indicated assent.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, the vote for allowance to these penghulus and ketuas was decided after very careful study of the monthly expenses incurred by each of them by way of launch fares and other incidental expenses, like the cost of lunch in Singapore and soft drinks. The Government considers that the existing rate of allowance is fair and reasonable. But, as my Parliamentary Secretary has pointed out, if either the penghulus or the ketuas or the hon. Member for Changi can somehow prove that these allowances are, in fact, very inadequate, then I can assure them that we will increase these allowances.

The Chairman: It seems a fair answer. Is the Member withdrawing his amendment?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Yes.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the names of Mr Sim Boon Woo and Inche Mahmud Awang ---

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $100.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: I am not moving, Sir.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1108 be reduced by $100.

Mr Speaker, is the Ministry aware that prompt attention is not being given to applications for repairs of houses, renovations, etc.? Complaints have been k.i.v'd for months. Considerable time is also taken between the investigation of complaints and the time repairs are made. After waiting for months, the roof leakages will be worse if they are not attended to. If these defects are not rectified, it will be difficult to get people to own flats. Here, Mr Speaker, it shows whether the defects were as a result of the construction by the contractors or otherwise.

Mr Speaker, another point regarding the Letting Section. Although there are legitimate complaints of malpractices, it is difficult to prove them. What is feared is that such news may be spread indiscriminately. This Ministry should be in a position to control and take remedial measures in order that we can get the confidence of the people.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Kampong Kapor has raised two points. Firstly, regarding the contractors in the Housing Board and, secondly, regarding the malpractices in the Letting Section of the Housing Board. In reply to the first point, I must say that if a tenant finds any defects in the flat, he should inform the respective officers by phone or by letter so that the Maintenance Inspector can go to the flat and check what are the defects. The contractor would be instructed to repair this in two or three weeks' time. If nothing has been done, then the tenant can approach the Complaints Bureau in the Ministry of National Development and lodge a complaint, and action will be taken. I do not know what instances the Member for Kampong Kapor is referring to. If he can give me more details, I will look into the matter.

In regard to the second point, the Letting Section of the Housing Board. The present position is this. The Letting Section handles 300 cases per day and sometimes there is considerable delay in the work and applicants who receive the letter late often complain. There must be something wrong somewhere. If the hon. Member knows some instances where he suspects that corruption is going on, he can give me the information. Surely my Ministry will refer it to the C.P.I.B. for investigation.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, as requested by the Parliamentary Secretary, I am ready to supply him with details, and if he really wants me to make complaints now, I am quite prepared to do so.

The Chairman: Speak to the Minister in person.

Inche Mahmud Awang: (In Malay): I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $5,762,750 for Head 1108 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1109 -

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $100.

Sir, due credit must be given to the Public Works Department for having carried out the policies of the Government faithfully in providing all the good things of life for our people, and, at the same time, they are responsible for beautifying our city to attract tourists. Sir, to many people the Public Works Department is merely associated with the construction and maintenance of roads, bridges and drains. Little do they realise the other varied and diverse functions of this important department. In fact, there are little government activities which do not in one way or another involve the Public Works Department. Some of the important functions of the department can be summarised as follows:

The design, planning and construction of roads, drainage schemes and bridges, extension of the Airport runway, the design, planning and construction of sewerage schemes such as the extension of Kim Chuan Road Sewerage Disposal Works, extension of main and minor sewers to bring in more areas under modern sanitation, the new sewerage scheme for the Toa Payoh satellite town, the design and the construction of Government buildings, such as new Government offices, schools, hospitals, clinics, post offices, police stations, housing for Government employees, warehouses, jetties, fountains, etc., building of multi-storeyed car parks, underground car park, Airport Terminal Building, abbatoir, Ministry of Education Headquarters, etc., etc.

Sir, besides the design, planning and construction of new works and buildings mentioned above, the Department is responsible for the maintenance of public roads, bridges, drains, Government buildings, offices, quarters, Civil Airport, street lights, sewerage works, septic tanks, etc.

Sir, some of the major works done by the Public Works Department, which I think are worthy of mention,are very big projects costing millions of dollars. Braddell Road, for instance - the construction and the realignment of this road into a dual-carriageway is completed except for a short section for a foot-path and cycle tracks. It costs approximately $2 million. Bartley Road, Ayer Rajah Road, West Coast Road, Clementi Road Bridge, Dunman Road Bridge, Sungei Padang Bridge, Sungei Bang Kuang Bridge, Tanglin Halt Bridge. Some of the major drainage is also constructed by the Public Works Department in conjunction with the flood alleviation schemes; Rochore Canal lining and tide gates. Opera Estate outlet drain, Geylang River concrete lining costing about $1� million.

The Chairman: Does the Member have any questions to ask the Minister? At the moment, he is extolling the Public Works Department. If he has got any question to ask the Minister, he may do so. But, at the moment he is still on a panegyric of the Department. That is not the point and purpose of this time.

7.00 p.m.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Sir, I will be a little brief on this.

The Chairman: I think the Member had better be a whole lot briefer on that!

Mr Sim Boon Woo: What I want to give credit for is this; little has been announced to the public that such work has been carried out by this Department, and I simply want this to be recorded, Sir, but ---

The Chairman: Have you any complaints against the Public Works Department?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Yes.

The Chairman: Please get on with them then.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Sir, my complaint is a minor one. In my constituency, I would say that for the last 10 months, the filling up of the junction of Tanah Merah Kechil and Changi Road has not been done although I was told by the Urban and Rural Services Committee that the work has been given to the Public Works Department. Nothing has been done so far, and therefore I would like the Minister concerned to pay more attention to these projects.

Sir, I beg to move.

The Chairman: The Question is, "That the total sum to be allocated for Head 1109 be reduced by $100." Mr Ho, there is only one complaint. You may answer it.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Changi has complained about Tanah Merah Kechil. In fact, an engineer of my Ministry has already looked into the matter, and the estimates will be forwarded to the U.R.S.C. for consideration.

The Chairman: Is that satisfactory?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Sir, I would like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary, how long this consideration will last and when the work will start.

The Chairman: It is a fair question. When will the work start, Mr Ho?

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Changi is a member of the U.R.S.C. So when the project is approved, of course, tenders will be called and work will be carried out.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, this is not a matter of the U.R.S.C. The U.R.S.C. has given this work to the P.W.D., and therefore the P.W.D. has to carry it out. This is not a matter of my being a member of the U.R.S.C. This is a different matter - a case of the P.W.D. and the U.R.S.C. What I want to know is, when will this work commence?

The Chairman: Do I understand that the Committee has approved the work?

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Yes.

The Chairman: There you are, Mr Ho. The Committee has approved the work, it seems.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: No, Mr Speaker, this is procedure and it will take some time. Once a project is approved by the U.R.S.C. today, it does not mean that it will be carried out tomorrow. It is impossible, you know. When a project is approved, the usual procedure is to hand the job over to the P.W.D. The P.W.D. will then advertise in the newspapers and tenders will be called. When this procedure is completed, work will be carried out. So it is difficult for me to state here when this work will be carried out, because a certain procedure has to be followed.

The Chairman: Apparently the matter has been caught in the procedures of the P.W.D.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: In view of the assurance given by the Parliamentary Secretary that this project will be carried out, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $8,517,760 for Head 1109 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1110 -

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1110 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2015.

Sir, this item concerns Public Street Lighting and the next year's estimate stand at $2.6 million. I would like to ask the Minister concerned whether he is aware that Punggol Road, being a public street, has been lighted up from 7� m.s, to 9� m.s. Punggol Road, and whether it is possible that next year the rest of Punggol Road will be lighted up. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Punggol has asked whether the rest of Punggol Road can be lighted. I can give him this answer. This request will be forwarded to the Chairman of the Urban and Rural Services Committee for consideration.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to prolong this little debate on one particular request. So in view of the explanation given by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $16,430,510 for Head 1110 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 1111 -

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 1111 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, in the course of my Meet-the-people's sessions, I have come across many requests from my constituents who want to apply for permission to reconstruct their existing houses and also to apply for permits to retain their existing houses.

Sir, I would like to deal with the second point first, that is: application for permits to retain existing houses. Such houses were built more than 10 years ago, and today, with social amenities like water and electricity supplies being available in many parts of Punggol constituency, many of the constituents in unnumbered houses have come to me to seek my assistance to get for them permits for existing houses in order that they can obtain house numbers so that they can apply for such facilities. Sir, the point is this. The application forms are printed in the English language only, and I also notice that on the form itself the applicant making such an application has no opportunity to state his date of application and that at the back of this form the applicant has to draw a sketch plan of the site indicating where his existing house is and, at the same time, draw a sketch plan of the house.

Sir, in the course of rendering such assistance, I find that if I were to request the Minister concerned to see to it that such forms are printed in the four official languages, then I am sure that many of these applicants would be able to fill up the forms easily.

The other point is this. The form being duly completed will be submitted to the Chief Building Surveyor who will look into the matter. Now I have come across such applications which had to wait for more than two months - I am not simply alleging this complaint, but it it is necessary I am prepared to furnish such particulars, that officials of the Chief Building Surveyor's Department sometimes take up to two months to visit a site and later on when a permit is approved and a $2 fee is paid, even then a house number is not given until one or two months later. So, all in all, it takes three to four months, sometimes six months.

The other point is the application for permits to reconstruct existing houses. Sir, in the rural constituencies, many such houses are made up of plank walls and attap roofs. Very often, when such applications are made, the houses are in a very poor condition, and these constituents need to get permission as soon as possible to go ahead with reconstructing them. I would suggest to the Minister concerned to look into the possibility of establishing a small unit in the Chief Building Surveyor's Department purely to look into these two matters and to help the poor people, not only in my constituency, but also in other rural constituencies as well, by facilitating these applications, so that they can get what they have applied for within as short a period of time as possible and with as little inconvenience to them as possible. For example, in order to apply for permission to reconstruct a house, the poor chap will have to go down to the Planning Department to buy two site plans. Many of these people are not familiar with site plans and more often than not they buy the wrong ones because first, they have got to go down to the Planning Department and tell the officer what they want and they are not able to read and understand the site plans well. So in view of what I have pointed out, I hope the Minister concerned will kindly look into those two matters.

Sir, I beg to move.

7.15 p.m.

Mr Ho Cheng Choon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Punggol wants to know why requests from rural residents or farmers to reconstruct their existing houses or retain their existing house numbers are being delayed and whether a small unit should be set up in the Chief Building Surveyor's Department.

Now, the problem of unauthorised houses in Singapore has been reduced ever since the end of World War II. There are thousands of such unauthorised houses and the Government has been realistic in not taking action to put the residents occupying unauthorised houses out of them, but rather to permit them to remain there temporarily. It has been considered dangerous if we were to regularise every unauthorised house, even though it has been in existence for a number of years, for the simple reason that it will mean putting the stamp of legality on something that is unauthorised. It will soon be accepted to mean that the people can construct houses without bothering to apply for permission and with the passage of time these houses will be authorised. Since the Government is not in a position to throw out families living in unauthorised houses, each house will be authorised with the passage of time. The Chief Building Surveyor's Department has been dealing with this problem for some time. Efforts have been made to contain the problem within limits rather than to provide a solution. Wherever possible, those houses that could comply with the building by-laws would be regularised and the owners could then obtain house numbers to enable them to get supplies of electricity and water. For those houses which are so irregular as to be unable to comply with the building by-laws, the Chief Building Surveyor cannot regularise them and they will have to remain as they are or be demolished. It will be difficult for the Government to regularise such unauthorised and newly constructed houses which go against certain building by-laws. Now, the Chief Building Surveyor's Department will assist the farmers or rural residents to obtain the necessary temporary building permits, and there is no need to set up a special unit just to assist them. As in Punggol the Primary Production Department has recently completed a veterinary centre at the 9th milestone Punggol Road. Perhaps the officer working in this veterinary centre will be instructed to assist in this matter.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think one little point our Parliamentary Secretary raised was that I mentioned regularising unauthorised new houses. I did not say it at any time just now. So I beg to correct that little error. However, I am indeed glad to hear from him that with the completion of the establishment of the veterinary centre in Jalan Serangoon Kechil, 9th milestone Punggol Road, the officer in charge will be instructed to assist in this matter.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $753,640 for Head 1111 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairman: The remaining heads of expenditure in respect of which no amendment stands on the Order Paper are Heads 0101, 0102, 0106, 0201, 0302, 0303, 0306, 0308, 0309, 0701, 0704, 0802, 0803, 0805, 0806, 0808, 0809, 0810, 0902, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107 and 1112. Is that right, Mr Minister?

Mr Lim Kim San: Yes.

Question, "That the sums stated for those heads which appear in the last column of the abstract of estimated expenditure on pages 53 and 54 of Paper Cmd. 25 of 1965 stand part of the Estimates," put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the sum of $472,554,830 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Estimates contained in Paper Cmd. 25 of 1965," put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has come to a certain resolution.

Resolution reported ---

That the sum of $472,554,830 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Estimates contained in Paper Cmd. 25 of 1965.

Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the House doth agree with the Committee on the said resolution."

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolution accordingly agreed to.