MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF SINGAPORE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1989 TO 31ST MARCH, 1990

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [4th Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

12.45 pm

Head L (cont.) -

Resumption of Debate on Question [17th March, 1989],

"That the sum to be allocated for Head L of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100." - [Dr Tan Cheng Bock.]

Question again proposed.

Mr Chew Heng Ching (Eunos GRC): Sir, when the House adjourned on Friday, the Member for Tampines GRC, Dr Aline Wong, asked the Government to state its stand on pre-primary education. This follows a report by the Auditor-General that the programme be scrapped on the ground that the objectives of the programme no longer exist and it is not cost-effective to conduct pre-primary classes in schools.

To briefly recap, the programme was started in 1979 to try to arrest the declining enrolment in Chinese medium schools and to help children from dialect-speaking homes learn English and Chinese languages. This programme is presently offered not to all schools but only to 39 out of the 210 primary schools. Sir, the need to arrest the declining enrolment in Chinese-medium schools no longer existed following the Ministry's decision in 1987 to make English the main medium of instruction in our schools.

I believe a study conducted by the Ministry in 1984 shows that after three years of primary education there was little significant difference between the language abilities of children who attended pre-primary classes and those who attended kindergarten classes run by private and community organizations.

Sir, I am aware that this pre-primary programme is popular among parents. I agree that education is about investment in human resources and we must not stinge on that. But I believe it is also our responsibility, as Members in this Chamber, to ensure that taxpayers' monies are properly spent. The cost of running the pre-primary programme works out to about $120 per child per month. This cost is much higher than the average cost of about $12 to $90 per child per month spent by non-MOE kindergartens which we refer to private kindergartens as well as kindergartens run by community organizations.

I understand that it will cost the State something like $80-$100 million annually to run the pre-primary programme if this programme is extended to all schools in Singapore, ie, to all the 210 primary schools. This is a big sum. The opportunity cost to the State if we were to continue with this programme is just too high. The kindergarten classes conducted by the private sector and community organizations could take over this role.

Sir, I am aware that parents are concerned about the standard of education offered by some of these kindergartens. I wish to allay their fear as I believe that most of these kindergartens, particularly those run by the PAP Community Foundation and the People's Association, have invested large sums of money in recent years upgrading and re-equipping. Teachers are now better trained. The curriculum has been restructured to place greater emphasis on developing the child's language ability (and that was the objective of the pre-primary programme) as well as to develop the child socially, emotionally and academically.

Sir, I also understand that parents are concerned about the higher fees charged by kindergartens. This is inevitable. In the longer run, the operating costs will have to increase with efforts to continue to improve and uphold the standard of kindergarten education in Singapore. But we must try to maintain our kindergarten fees within affordable means of the average Singaporeans. To achieve this, may I suggest that the Minister for Education consider using part of the money saved from scrapping the pre-primary programme to subsidize kindergarten education in the same way as the Government subsidizes child care centres.

Mr Peh Chin Hua (Jalan Besar GRC): ( In Mandarin): Sir, when we talk about traditional values and religious knowledge education, we cannot leave out Confucianism. I would like to say that I regret very much Mr Chiam See Tong's talk and views on Confucianism last Friday. He said that it is a retrogressive action to teach Confucianism and Asian values in schools as it would hinder the development of a democratic society. Mr Chiam is mixing up Confucianism with feudalism. I doubt whether he understands Confucian values in the Eastern traditional culture. So he gave adverse comments on the Government's policy in teaching Confucianism in schools and compared Confucianism with the feudal system of rule in ancient imperial China. He said Confucianism is a stumbling block for democracy. Sir, if by teaching Confucianism in schools is to consolidate our political power, then scrapping it or teaching anti-Confucianism thoughts would be a measure for democracy! Just recall some two decades ago in mainland China during the period of Cultural Revolution when Confucianism was criticized, attacked and maligned thoroughly, the Government then was not democratic at all. There was only the personality cult of Mao in place of democracy. But now Mr Chiam See Tong is also against the teaching of Confucianism. Does he mean to emulate Mao Tse Tung's Great Cultural Revolution? Or, is he trying to mould a personal image of heroism to enhance his prestige? I hope Mr Chiam See Tong would not brag on his views of something which he has merely a tunnel view.

Next, talking about religious knowledge education, I agree to the views expressed by Dr Aline Wong. I would ask the Minister about the possibility of teaching Comparative Religious Studies in the class instead. Since 1984, there has been teaching of religious knowledge of one religion for one class system without touching on any general knowledge about other religions. Some students dare not even learn about any rudimentary history and tenets of other religions for fear of offending the religious regulations of their own faiths. So some students who have no inkling of any Bible Knowledge think that belief in Christian or Catholic faith is westernization and a denial of one's own culture and root. Some students without any knowledge of Buddhism or Taoism regard belief in these religions as a sort of cultism, feudalism, devil-related or superstition. To such people, the learning of Confucianism is also revival of feudalism and against the trend of modernization. This kind of thinking is caused by the students' own religious excluvism and extremism. If this kind of situation were to continue for long, it will have unfavourable effect on the inter-religious harmony in our country and also negative effect on our promotion of religious tolerance and mutual understanding.

At the moment, some teachers make use of class-rooms as churches or temples, while teaching in classes they would also be preaching their own religions. This has incurred the dissatisfaction and concern of certain parents. I hope the Minister would abolish the teaching of religious knowledge in schools or accept what Mr Wong Kan Seng has suggested, ie, change to teaching the subject on major religions instead, so that students may know something about those religious history and what enlightenment and influence they have over human history and, at the same time, learn from the historical angle of religious conflicts and wars to get enlightenment of their mind. In this way, it will help the students to formulate common value concept and a sense of identity.

The Minister for Education (Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam): Sir, the subject of core values and how to inculcate core values in our children was raised by several Members during the debate last Friday and this subject has also been very widely discussed in the press in the last few months. What I would like to do, Sir, this afternoon is two things. First of all, to give a perspective on the subject and, second, to outline a practical measure which the Ministry will be taking with regard to the dissemination of core values in our schools.

I believe, Sir, we can understand why, after so many years, the retention of core values has now become an issue by looking at the enrolment figures in our schools over the last 30 years. These figures are given in an Annex which I will ask the Clerk of Parliament to distribute. [Copies of Annexes (Cols. 567 - 570) distributed to hon. Members]. Let me summarize the main points. Annexes - ENROLMENT OF PUPILS IN PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS BY LANGUAGE MEDIUM, CHOICE OF CL1/CL2 AT PSLE IN 4 PRIMARY SCHOOLS (Cols. 567 - 570)

First, prior to 1960, more children were educated in Chinese, Malay or Tamil medium schools than in English schools. In fact, children who were educated in English medium schools were in the minority. But after Independence and with the growing economic success of Singapore the importance of learning English as a subject for economic purposes and as a common working language among the races in Singapore became evident. A good knowledge of English became the passport to a good job and to bright prospects. This was realized by parents and they responded to this trend by enrolling their children in English medium schools in preference to Chinese, Malay and Tamil medium schools. The process went on inexorably so that by the mid-1980s, Chinese, Malay and Tamil medium schools had been phased out and all schools were converted to a national system of education whereby all pupils learn English as their first language and their mother tongue as their second language - CL2, ML2 and TL2. The only exception was in the nine secondary SAP (Special Assistance Plan) schools and the four primary schools which continued to teach CL1 in addition to EL1.

I think a question which would be pertinent to ask, Sir, is whether it was right for us to encourage Singaporeans to use English as a common working language and to accommodate the wishes of parents for an English medium education for their children. I am sure there will be many views but in my own view, Sir, I believe that there really was no choice. Without the widespread use of English, we would not today have a thriving, prosperous Singapore.

Let me give you my reasons. There are three of them. First, I believe for racial harmony in a multi-racial society like Singapore, you need one common working language which all races understand and can use for communication with one another. Otherwise, misunderstanding and suspicion can easily arise and multi-racial peace and harmony will come under strain. Singapore is perhaps unique among the countries which have gained their independence in adopting a pragmatic policy towards language and emphasizing the importance of English even at the risk of somewhat lowering the importance of the mother tongue. Perhaps this is one of the reasons, Sir, why we have succeeded when so many other developing countries have failed.

The second reason, Sir, is that a knowledge of English made it possible for us to have rapid economic development by rapidly absorbing technology from the West without a need for massive translation facilities which would have been impossible for a small country like Singapore. Indeed, Sir, many companies say that one of the attractions of Singapore as a centre for investments is their ability to start up factories here more quickly than in other countries because of the ability of our people to understand instructions in English, thereby enabling the company to transfer manufacturing processes rapidly to Singapore.

The third, and I think in some ways the most important reason, is that without the widespread use of English I do not think that it would have been possible for us to build up the Singapore Armed Forces quickly and so effectively as we have done. We need economic success to give us the means to buy arms and equipment. Then of course the technical manuals and instructions are in English and you cannot build up an armed force quickly if all the manuals and instructions have to be translated into three languages which would have been necessary in a multi-racial society like Singapore if we do not have English as our common working language. Without a strong economy, without a strong SAF, there simply would be no Singapore today as we know it today.

Sir, I made these points in order to put the issue in perspective. But like everything else in life, there is a price for success and the price for Singapore is that for educating our people and our children in English as a key to the technological knowledge of the West, we also inadvertently expose them to cultural influences, attitudes and habits of the West. Our people by being educated in English do not need to read books in translation as is the case in Japan, Taiwan and Indonesia. They are able to read published materials directly from the West and see television programmes directly. And this openness is accentuated by the development of television as the most pervasive medium of communication in the world today. Television, Sir, has made closer the realization of one world where events that take place in one country can be instantaneously transmitted with great emotional impact to citizens in many other countries around the world. Whether it is soap operas, situation comedies or momentous events like the funeral of the Emperor in Japan or the destruction of the space shuttle "Challenger" in America - all these can be immediately perceived by our children in Singapore. And this daily dose of television material from the West must, over time, have a significant impact on our children's attitudes and outlook towards life. This is why we are today talking about why it is necessary to retain our core values in a situation where we have emphasized and encouraged the use of English as a common working languageand exposed our people and our children to the media, particularly television from the West.

How do we go about inculcating core values in our children? I think the answer is not with the schools. The answer is with the home. Inculcation of core values must begin with the home. Children absorb core values even before they go to school. They learn them from their parents, grandparents, relatives. When children are young, they are natural imitators. They see what adults do, how adults behave in the home and outside the home, and they follow. If there is an environment of politeness and respect in the home, these values are absorbed by children, as if by osmosis. You do not have to teach them consciously. But the values will remain with the children for a long, long time. So it must begin in the home, but it can be consolidated in the schools.

Within the school structure, Sir, inculcation of core values is best done during the primary school years. This is because during the primary school years, from ages 6 to 12, these are the years where children's impressions and characters are still being formed and attitudes are being shaped. By the time the child gets to secondary school, it is unlikely that there will be the same impact as in primary school when the lessons can be vividly impressed in his or her mind.

Now, Sir, what principles should we follow in the teaching of core values in schools? From the debate last Friday, it is generally agreed that the inculcation of core values cannot be effective if it is confined to a subject that is taught only at specific times and by specific teachers. As noted by the Member for Moulmein and the Non-Constituency Member of Parliament, Dr Lee Siew-Choh, it is the ethos of the school. It is the example of the teachers that play the decisive role in the transmission of core values to pupils in school. A school that is well run and orderly, where there is a proper relationship between the teacher and the pupils, where there is an air of politeness, respect and consideration - I think that that school itself is a better vehicle for the transmission of core values than any formal lessons that we can devise.

Last Friday Dr Lee Siew-Choh in his speech made a point that many of the Chinese stream schools in the old days, particularly the primary schools, used to teach good traditional values particularly good manners. I think he has made a valid point.

In fact, in 1979, noting the rapidly declining enrolment in the Chinese medium primary schools, the Government introduced a pre-primary programme in order to arrest the declining enrolment in the Chinese medium schools and to provide the foundation for the learning of languages. Unfortunately, as I shall explain later, because of the changes that the pre-primary programme had to undergo in order to accommodate the large number of schools that were involved at the start (67 schools or approximately a quarter of the present number of primary schools), the programme had over the years to be substantially modified until it is today effectively a kindergarten programme.

But the original intention was correct. There is much in the traditional discipline and culture of the former Chinese primary schools which can be usefully incorporated to inculcate desirable core values in Chinese children. And we should prevent these Chinese primary school traditions from being totally lost. Many of the Chinese primary schools have closed down because of declining enrolment. But fortunately, Sir, we still have a number of existing primary schools which have not lost their Chinese primary school character, and we should retain these schools as Chinese-type primary schools but now teaching CL1 in addition to EL1. These schools will help to keep alive the best traditions of Chinese primary school education. And if we can succeed in keeping the number of Chinese primary schools, we can in a way use them as "seed schools" to see what lessons can be learned in the area of retention of core values which can later on be transmitted to other primary schools.

The Ministry has identified 10 primary schools for this purpose. They comprise the existing four primary schools - Catholic High, Maris Stella, Nanyang Primary, and St. Nicholas Girls - which currently teach CL1 and EL1; and an additional six schools - Ai Tong, Peh Chun, Red Swastika, Maha Bodhi, Nan Hua and Tao Nan. All the 10 schools are traditional Chinese medium schools. They have principals who were educated in Chinese. The 10 schools have strong Chinese traditions and good academic records. They will, we believe, provide an environment which is conducive for the learning of CL1 and the transmission of values which are inherent in the primary school ethos.

To help these schools succeed, the Ministry of Education will develop special curriculum materials to facilitate the language learning and values education in the 10 schools. Where necessary, additional physical facilities such as classrooms and special rooms will be provided. The Ministry will also pose good bilingual teachers to the 10 schools and encourage the more able and better Chinese language teachers to apply to teach in these schools.

Sir, we know that not all children can do CL1 in addition to EL1 without detriment to their other PSLE subjects. If Members would look at Annex II which has also been distributed, they will see that just under half of the pupils in the four primary schools which now teach CL1 and EL1 are assessed by the schools to have the ability to do the CL1 paper at PSLE without detriment to their other PSLE subjects. So the pupils need to be given assistance and, in order to encourage the pupils in the 10 schools to do CL1, we have to give them the best possible chance.

I have agreed after consulting the principals of the 10 schools, that these 10 schools will be allowed to enrol children next year, from the age of 5+ instead of the normal 6+. This, will commence from 1990. By enrolling pupils at 5+, the pupils will have the benefit of a special one-year preparatory programme which will focus on laying a foundation for the study of CL1 in the upper levels of the primary schools. The pupils in the 10 schools will remain in the schools and study EL1 and CL1 until the end of Primary 3. At the end of Primary 3 those pupils, who are linguistically talented and intellectually able, will be guided to continue with the study of CL1 up to Primary 6 and take the PSLE in the same school. Other pupils who cannot manage CL1 will be allowed to switch to CL2 in the same school or apply for transfer to other schools.

Now, Sir, I want to stress the point that while the arrangements which I have outlined are initially to allow more Chinese children to study CL1 in addition to EL1 within a Chinese primary school environment, I want to say for the record and to make it clear that we will also make arrangements for Malay children and Indian children to study ML1 and TL1 in our primary schools if there is demand. I think there should be no misunderstanding on this point. We have an even-handed policy. We will treat all three languages in the same way.

Having said that, Sir, I come to what is really the difficult question: What about the pre-primary programme in the other 31 primary schools which presently have pre-primary classes? This is the point raised by Dr Aline Wong on Friday and by Mr Chew Heng Ching today. Should we also convert the pre-primary programme in the 31 schools to this special one-year preparatory programme to lay a foundation in CL1 in the 10 schools which I have just described?

Sir, with the experience that we have had over the last 10 years with the pre-primary programme, I think that to convert the pre-primary programme in all the 31 schools to this special one-year CL1 programme would not be wise. We have to study carefully how many children can study CL1 in addition to EL1 without affecting their other PSLE subjects and we can do this better and have a greater chance of success if we limit the number to 10 schools rather than to extend the scheme straightaway to all 39 schools.

Members will know that the future of the pre-primary programme has been under consideration by the Ministry for many years. If the progrmame is retained in its present structure as a kindergarten programme, it is not equitable if we do not extend the programme to all primary schools and include the teaching of Malay and Tamil in addition to Chinese.

The Ministry has hesitated to expand the programme because our studies, which is supported by discussions with principals, show that educationally the pre-primary programme, as it is currently structured, does not go very much beyond the kindergarten programme conducted by the non-MOE kindergartens. By Primary III, there is little significant difference in so far as we can assess in language competency between children who have gone through the existing pre-primary programme and those who have come from the non-MOE kindergartens. These studies by the Ministry were confirmed in a cost-effectiveness review of the programme which was undertaken by the Auditor-General last year.

We have a difficult question, Sir, because the popularity of the pre-primary programme is not in doubt. I understand the reasons why this is so. Admission to the pre-primary programme guarantees a place in Primary 1 in the school in which the pre-primary class is held. The fee of $4 per month paid by parents for the pre-primary programme is very low as compared to the fees charged by some private kindergartens. This fee of $4 is low because Government is effectively subsidizing each pupil in the pre-primary classes to the extent of $120 per month. No doubt children in the pre-primary classes are better prepared for Primary 1. And it is therefore not surprising that over the years there has been much pressure from parents, from the public, even from Members of Parliament, for the Ministry to extend the pre-primary programme to all schools. But, Sir, we cannot escape from the central fact that as it is currently structured, the pre-primary programme is a kindergarten programme which can be conducted just as well by other non-MOE kindergartens. There is no educational necessity for the Government to continue with the existing pre-primary programme, except in the 10 schools where the programme will be changed to one that emphasizes the study of CL1.

After considering the matter very carefully - and I would again emphasize the words "very carefully" because we have taken three years over this subject - we have decided to discontinue the pre-primary programme with effect from next year in the 31 schools. The schools will utilize the pre-primary facilities to create special purpose rooms which will benefit the children in the other levels of the primary schools. This will also be the same for those primary schools which have pre-primary facilities but are not conducting the pre-primary programme now.

Sir, the proposal to retain a number of Chinese primary schools as seed schools for the inculcation of core values in Chinese children does not mean that we have all the answers to the problem of teaching of core values. My own view is that this measure can at best be regarded as only the first step towards a solution. We need to study the matter further to identify core values which will be accepted by all the races in Singapore. And we need to see how these core values can best be disseminated in all our schools.

Sir, we are not alone in this problem. Even countries which have established traditional cultures and homogeneous populations fear that their own core values are being weakened daily under the impact of westernization and the media. I believe that it is to our benefit to see how these countries approach the problem. Our aim is not to copy them blindly but to see what we can learn and adapt for our own purposes.

As part of the Ministry's multi-prong approach towards this complex problem, my Minister of State, Dr Seet Ai Mee, has discussed the issue with various sections of the public, ie, teachers, community leaders and parents last year and also visited Taiwan and Hong Kong to see what can be learnt in the teaching of core values in these two countries. With your permission, Sir, I think that this would be an opportune time for Dr Seet to inform the House of her findings.

The Minister of State for Education (Dr Seet Ai Mee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank our Non-Constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP) for his kind remarks and cautious reminder to political leaders to be good examples. I am glad that in the area of core values he is very much on our side.

May I suggest to the Member for Potong Pasir that, besides reading the Confucian ethics school textbooks - unfortunately he is not here - as suggested by Dr Aline Wong, he consult the hon. NCMP on matters related to Confucianism before he makes further pronouncements on the subject.

Singapore is undoubtedly a modern and industrialized society which has made every effort to achieve a higher growth rate in the economy. Concomitantly, new values and social norms have been introduced and adopted by the nation. Not all these new values can be termed "desirable" ones and as these found their way into our lives, traditional values were displaced.

Mr Chiam See Tong: [entered the Chamber] Can you repeat it again?

The Chairman: Can you repeat it for his sake?

An hon. Member: For his benefit.

The Chairman: I think I will allow you to repeat.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir.

The Chairman: It is always my pleasure.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: May I suggest to the Member for Potong Pasir that, besides reading the Confucian ethics school textbooks as suggested by Dr Aline Wong, he consult the hon. NCMP on matters related to Confucianism before he makes further pronouncements on the subject.

The problem is not a new one. A decade ago, in an attempt to correct the situation, the 2nd Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Ong Teng Cheong, at the request of Dr Goh Keng Swee, led a Committee to investigate the teaching of Moral Education in schools. This resulted in the publication of the "Report on Moral Education 1979", development of special curricular Moral Education materials and setting up of Moral Education teaching in our schools.

Today, 10 years down the line, there is much evidence to suggest that modernization has made even greater inroads into Singapore lives, and there is fear that we may be losing our roots in our culture and our values.

Indeed, Mr Speaker, Sir, in the last five months, while there has been much discussion about the identification of core values, and vehicles and methods for their transmission, there has been no one who has stood up to say that we as a nation do not need core values.

To identify desirable values and to select from these core values is not an easy one in our multi-cultural, multi-racial and multi-religious society. It is like picking out the prime colours from a colourful mosaic. After the values are identified will come the need to disseminate these values with the aim of establishing them in our society.

The first major task given to me on taking office was that of investigating the dissemination of core values. Consultation and discussion with a cross section of the population through the Feedback Unit and with teachers' unions and organizations have yielded a listing of important values and concepts on how these values ought to be taught.

Sir, I shall not take up your time with a complete listing of the desirable values identified by our population. Suffice it to say that the listing is available to Members who may be interested. The values identi- fied covered the total societal spectrum, ie, from self, to family, community, the nation and the world. However, it is needful for me to report that many identified the need to consider the following factors when formulating these core values:

Firstly, the sensitivities of the different groups in our multi-racial, multi-religious society, each with its particular cherished values and shades of interpretation of the same.

Secondly, the need for judicious balance in promoting core values, taking into account the differences between Asian and Western values and influences.

Thirdly, the values to be incorporated should go beyond a listing of virtues, but should instead be those principles that are relevant and desirable, and which can be practised in the present-day context.

Fourthly, the forging of consensus and commitment to the desirable values takes time.

There was consensus that for maximum impact and effective inculcation, values have to be taught young, that means at the primary school level. However, there was much emotion, and some variance, in the discussion of the language in which it was to be taught, with more advocating that core values should be taught in the mother tongue.

Grandparents, parents and teachers were also firm in advocating the need for improvement of curricular material and teaching methods, to impart culture, stimulate interest and participation in the value-learning exercise through the teaching of the mother tongue and through the moral education syllabii. Recognizing that values are not only taught but also caught, many expressed the need to teach core values indirectly through the whole school curriculum and co-curricular programmes.

It was further emphasized that, as values are inculcated at home, taught and reinforced at schools and practised in society, it is necessary to have the involvement of the whole society, especially the media, in the fostering and teaching of core values to our children.

Much public interest was generated recently by the study trip to Taiwan and Hong Kong, resulting in advice from the Member for Moulmein cautioning us not to act impulsively from superficial glimpses, as both Taiwan and Hong Kong are racially and culturally homogeneous societies. We won't. As to his suggestion that we should look in our own backyard, I wish to assure him that the curriculum team is one involved in the Good Citizen programme and three of our own home-grown experts went with me on the study tour.

We do not wish to reinvent the wheel. If we are wise, we will learn from those who have done it earlier, and who, in our thinking, have done it well. We can benefit from their experience, and the pay-off accrued will provide us with a headstart, and long-term gains.

Our trip to Taiwan and Hong Kong was not intended to identify core values to be taught, but to examine the approaches used by these countries in teaching traditions and values through the primary school, and the outcome of these approaches, and, also, to study their system of training primary school teachers.

What did we find? Moral Education in Taiwan's primary schools is targetted at teaching pupils in good habits for wholesome living, fostering in pupils virtues like loyalty, filial piety, kindness, etc, and developing in pupils good character and lofty national sentiments.

Mr Speaker, Sir, Members may say that we do almost the same here, and I am in total agreement with them. There is, however, a major difference. In Taiwan, the teaching of morals pervades the curriculum. Besides Moral Education taught in the syllabus, there is moral content in other subject areas, particularly in language teaching and the social studies curriculum. And there are many supportive activities which buttress the teaching, eg, formation of pupil councils, participation in service projects, participation in school cleanliness, assembly talks, etc, and parent education programmes where the pupil's personal conduct, social development, as well as academic progress, are monitored and discussed regularly with the parents.

Sir, in teacher education in Taiwan, in the training of teachers, great emphasis was placed on personal development of the teacher, fostering in teachers a commitment to serve as role models to their pupils. The whole environment of the Teachers' Colleges from the dormitories to the lecture halls centres on this theme. Indeed, the central role of the teacher as exemplar contributes to the success of the Moral Education programme in Taiwan. And it is worthy to note that the social status of teachers in Taiwan remains high.

Are there problems? Yes, there are problems of internalization of values taught. Some experts spoke to us of the futility of teaching old rules in traditional ways, which tended to produce external compliance and conformity, without the moral maturity and judgment to apply the knowledge gained to current and new situations.

To address this problem, current traditional didactic methods commonly used are being replaced in some schools in Taiwan, with more progressive pedagogical methods, and a school we visited, for example, is justifiably proud of the curriculum materials the teachers have developed, using the values clarification approach.

A major problem identified was the ubiquitous nature of television and its negative effect on Taiwanese society as a whole. The effects of media explosion in the Taiwanese experience is not dissimilar to our situation. If a country with one single language, race and culture, steeped in value teaching for four decades finds itself vulnerable - how much greater is the problem for Singapore? The media problem has to be addressed if core value teaching and implantation is to be effective.

In Hong Kong, as Moral education is not taught as a subject, it was not possible to see the cross-curricular effects, if any, in the short time we were there.

We cannot learn from the experience of one country only. We will, as earlier planned, visit Japan to see how moral education is taught and how values are caught, and we will, in time, be making trips to Malaysia and Indonesia to study how the Rukun Negara and Pancasila were formulated and how they are imparted, especially to the young school children.

We cannot learn from single study trips alone - it is needful for follow-up work to be conducted. We therefore have plans for short term attachments of some of our principals of schools to schools where moral education programmes are actively and well taught, and practised, so that they can observe during the attachment, and learn from their counterparts and teachers in the host primary schools. We plan to conduct these attachments during the November/ December holidays this year.

The teaching of core values is an all-pervasive exercise and our principals will need to feel, see, hear and taste this in practice.

We may also invite visiting authorities from these countries to conduct lectures and workshops for our educators thereby tapping on their expertise, and, benefitting from their wide experience in the planning and implementation of the programme.

The Member for Braddell Heights has touched on, what I termed earlier, an emotive issue - the language in which core values is to be taught. I thank him for his points and we will take them into consideration in our discussions.

At present, core values, through the Moral Education programme, is taught in the mother tongue, which is Chinese, Malay and Tamil in primary schools and, at the secondary level, in the child's most proficient language, which in the case of most schools, is English.

Mother tongue languages are generally perceived to have their roots in Asian traditions and cultures and are hence considered suitable vehicles for the transmission of core values. Furthermore, it is the language of competence of more than 75% of our children entering Primary 1. Values education has to fill the hearts of children to do good, and the language which is better in moving this desire is one closest to their hearts, and, in many cases, this is the mother tongue.

Mr Chairman, the teaching of core values is, however, not confined to Moral Education lessons alone but also through other subjects like Language, Social Studies, Literature, Geography, History, Art, Music, etc. Even through the hidden curriculum like ECA, cultural activities, school functions and celebrations, pupils imbibe core values. The medium of instruction should, therefore, not be the only consideration for teaching core values in our schools.

One point needs to be noted regarding teaching of core values in the mother tongue languages - their use necessitates grouping of pupils along ethnic lines for instruction. This is undesirable since pupils should be encouraged to interact with each other in the learning, developing and practice of our core values.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I wish to conclude with a truism. If we have the will, we can and will find a way. Indeed, when discussing the issue with my Taiwan counterpart, he said that while they in Taiwan have a difficult task in Moral Education, we in Singapore have a much, much more difficult path to tread.

I believe that we in Singapore have the will to meet the challenge of core values teaching and inculcation and, while the going may be rough, and difficulties seemingly insurmountable, given the will we can succeed.

The Chairman: Dr Beng, you want to ask your question about pre-primary education?

Dr Arthur Beng Kian Lam (Fengshan): Yes.

The Chairman: You have only one minute. We are approaching the guillotine time on this amendment.

Dr Arthur Beng: Sir, the Minister for Education has announced the cessation of the pre-primary programme as it now stands. He has given sound reasons and the alternative of earmarking the ten primary schools for teaching CL1. Sir, I support his views. However, I feel the MOE could still assist in the pre-school programme.

Sir, my first comment is regarding the cost to run the non-MOE kindergartens. While the cost appears on the surface to be less than non-MOE kindergartens, this is not a true reflection of cost as there are many hidden costs. For example, many of the non-MOE kindergartens are run by charitable organizations. Much of their setup or capital cost is not costed in as they come in the form of donations. Secondly, much of the administrative work of these organizations are done by volunteers, and that is another significant saving. Thirdly, while the MOE conducts 4-hour classes the equivalent in the non-MOE classes are usually two- or three-hour classes.

Sir, I would urge that the Ministry of Education should still continue to play a role in early childhood education but in a different role from that of administering pre-primary education. The state is already involved in this role via the People's Association and its assistance in the day-care centre grants. Will the Minister consider assistance to low-cost kindergartens in the following areas:

(1) A grant to help in the setup of new kindergartens or extension of present kindergartens so that we will be able to cope with the intake of those who are presently in the pre-primary classes.

(2) A grant to help further upgrade the kindergartens; and

(3) A grant to help in teacher-training. In this way, non-MOE kindergartens can continue to provide good quality kindergarten classes at an affordable rate. The Government in this way will be able to divert its financial resources to more urgent areas of need. For example, the implementation of single session schools while at the same time responsibly discharging its responsibility to the pre-school programme.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Member for Fengshan for his points. I would like to inform him that with the phasing out of the pre-primary programme, we will now have the resources to strengthen the kindergarten branch within the Ministry of Education. It is my intention, Sir, that the Ministry of Education should now enter into a dialogue with those who are operating in the non-MOE kindergartens to see how we can upgrade these kindergartens. Whether this will take the form of a grant or not, I think, is premature for me to say. But I can assure him, Sir, that we do not intend simply to wash our hands of this responsibility. I believe that the Ministry of Education will in fact be able to upgrade the quality of pre-school education by playing a supportive role to those who are now running the non-MOE kindergartens.

Sir, I know I am treading on your indulgence but I have not responded to those Members who have spoken on the Religious Knowledge subject. Can I, with your permission, Sir, take a few minutes ---

The Chairman: We have reached guillotine time on this amendment. If you want to continue you can, but that will mean affecting the time for the other amendments.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, I am sure the other Members will not mind because it is an important subject and the Members for Tampines GRC, Dr Aline Wong, Jalan Besar GRC, Mr Peh Chin Hua and Braddell Heights, Mr Goh Choon Kang, have spoken on the subject and I think they deserve a reply.

Sir, first of all, I would like to give Members some background on the teaching of Religious Knowledge in schools. The first thing I want to say, Sir, is that the decision to make Religious Knowledge a compulsory subject in schools was not taken lightly. It was done after a great deal of thought and study carried out over many years beginnng from 1979. There was at that time, as there is now, a concern that our children in schools should not grow up without absorbing some guiding principles or moral beliefs which would guide them through life.

For children in primary schools and the lower levels of our secondary schools, the Good Citizens programme and the Being and Becoming programme provide a reasonably adequate basis for moral edu- cation. But for moral education to be effective at the higher levels of our secondary schools, ie, with children who are aged 15, 16 and 17 years old, they cannot be taught simply as a collection of bits and pieces of good advice or moral platitudes. At that age, Sir, children begin to question. They will not simply accept what they are told. In other words, for moral education to be effective with older children, it must be related to what is called a "unifying intellectual basis" which will place desirable moral values within an "intellectually acceptable conceptual framework."

Much effort was expended by the Ministry of Education from 1979 to construct such a conceptual framework for moral education. Members will know that numerous reports were produced and many studies were done.

Finally, the Ministry concluded in 1982 that religions provided the best and the most dependable basis for inculcating moral values in our older children and producing the honest, upright citizens that we would all wish to see. Even so, it required two more years of very hard work before Religous Knowledge was made a compulsory subject at the upper levels of our secondary school from 1984.

Presently, Sir, six Religious Knowledge subject options are available - Bible Knowledge, Buddhist Studies, Confucian Ethics, Hindu Studies, Islamic Religious Knowledge and Sikh Studies. Pupils are free to choose any one of the six Religious Knowledge options for study. The subjects are normally taught within curriculum time except where a given subject option in a school has fewer than 20 pupils. Then that option is taught at designated school centres outside curriculum time. While attendance at Religious Knowledge classes is compulsory, pupils need not offer the subjects in the GCE 'O' or 'N' Level Examinations. But if taken as an 'O' level subject, Religious Knowledge can be considered for purposes of meeting the requirements for admission to junior colleges and pre-university centres.

Pupils opt to study the various Religious Knowledge options at the beginning of Secondary III. Members may be interested to know the distribution of pupils among the various options. This is given in an Annex (Cols. 571 - 572) which I have asked the Clerk of Parliament to distribute now. (Copies of document distributed to hon. Members). The Annex shows the number of pupils who opted for the various subjects this year. The most popular option is Buddhist Studies with 16,352 students or 44% of the total 1989 Secondary III cohort of 36,800 students. Other subjects with large enrolments are Bible Knowledge with 7,874 students or 21%, Confucian Ethics 6,563 or 18% and Islamic Religious Knowledge 4,921 students or 13%. 1,008 students or 3% opted for Hindu Studies and 136 students or 1/2% for Sikh Studies. Annex - RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE OPTIONS AT SECONDARY 3 (Cols. 571 - 572)

Sir, I believe that the concern of Members concerning these Religious Knowlege options probably arose as a result of the recent study conducted by the NUS Sociology Department on Religions and Religious Revivalism in Singapore. The conclusion of their study was that:

'Government through the introduction of compulsory Religious Knowledge programmes in schools has not been entirely neutral in matters of Religion (a point brought up by Dr Aline Wong). By designating only certain Religious Knowledge subjects to be made available in schools as compulsory subjects, the Government has given the impression of according preferential status to certain selected religions. This is not entirely in accordance with the Government's desire to adopt a secular approach and to be even-handed in religious matters.'

I think, Sir, this is a valid and an important point and the implications are such that, notwithstanding the important reasons that have led to the introduction of Religious Knowledge as a compulsory subject in schools and the very considerable resources that have been put into the programme over the last 10 years, it is timely for the Ministry to take a fresh look at this whole subject.

I want to briefly outline a few courses of action that we can take with regard to Religious Knowledge teaching in schools. There are three courses of action which are possible. The first is simply to discontinue all teaching of Religious Knowledge subjects in our secondary schools and then, because there will be a vacuum, possibly bring back the old Civics courses that we had before 1979. This would mean that we would really be going back to where we were before we started this whole programme. But the difficulty then, Sir, is that we will be putting our students through a course which we already know to be ineffective and to have little impact on pupils.

The second possible course would be to scrap the Religious Knowledge options and to replace them, as some have suggested, with a general subject on religions course called "Study of World Religions" or "Study of Selected Religions". On the surface, Sir, this is an attractive solution but there are complications. In actual fact, as far back as 1982, the Ministry of Education announced that in additon to the present six subjects which are available today, there would be a seventh subject called "A Study of World Religions". However, Sir, problems immediately arose when the Ministry got down to try and draft the syllabus. First, there was disagreement among the various religious bodies as to which religions should be included. After much discussion, the Ministry, with the help of a lecturer on comparative religions, settled on nine major world religions, namely, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Sikhism and Taoism.

Once settled on the religions, the Ministry found that no one could agree on which aspects of which religion should be included for study. Without agreeing on the syllabus, it was obviously not possible to develop any materials for the subject. Indeed, the Ministry could not find any academic, either in Singapore or overseas, who was brave enough to try and write a textbook on this subject which should be simple enough to be understood by secondary school students.

The final blow came when the Ministry realized that, even if the syllabus could be agreed and materials developed, there was no possibility of finding teachers who would be sufficiently conversant with the main principles of five or six religions to the extent that they could confidently present a fair and unbiased picture to their students. In the end, Sir, the Ministry gave up and, as Members know, the subject was never introduced. However, Sir, notwithstanding this rather disheartening experience, I promise Members we will take another look at this alternative but I fear we will run into the same difficulties which we encountered in 1982. But never mind, we will try again.

Sir, the third possible course of action is a less drastic one. It would be to allow schools to offer the Religious Knowledge options but only as an optional subject to be taught outside school hours and not to be used for purposes of admission to junior colleges and pre-university centres. This would mean that only children whose parents would like them to study particular Religious Knowledge subjects will do so and they will study the subject outside normal school hours. Under these circumstances, Sir, we must be realistic and expect that the number of students who will choose to study the Religious Knowledge options may be rather small. But, nevertheless, it would enable the Ministry of Education to keep a small residual staff at our headquarters to monitor the teaching of the Religious Knowledge subjects and give us more time to study this issue in depth. We could try the option for a few years and see whether it is workable or not.

But, Sir, whatever course of action we eventually choose, the point which I want to make is that I do not think we should take precipitate action on such a complex and important matter. My approach would be a consultative one, to discuss with parents, teachers and principals, community leaders and heads of the established religions in Singapore, MPs, academics, the public, anyone who would be able to throw some light on this subject, before we make a final decision.

This approach will take a little bit longer, but it will, I think, lead to a better and more rational solution. We will also have time to make transitional arrangements and, very important, Sir, to make sure that those students who are presently in our Secondary 3 or Secondary 4 classes will not be penalized or disadvantaged as a result of any changes that we may make in future.

The Chairman: Dr Tan, I think you have to withdraw your amendment.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock (Ayer Rajah): Sir, in view of lack of time, may I have a few brief words. One of the main reasons for my not supporting the pre-primary school is that it caters only to those who want to take Chinese. This, to me, is not proper because Singaporeans at such tender age must be exposed to study, learning and interacting with students of the other races.

On the subject of Religious Knowledge, the introduction of RK has led to many administrative problems, both in terms of time-tabling and curriculum time allocation without serving its objective. The subject has limited scope because it is limited to only one religion or school of thought. The principals are afraid that social segregation may occur as religious groups are formed. I therefore am glad that the teaching of Religious Knowledge is being reviewed.

Finally, the teaching of core values in the mother tongue in primary schools may have one setback and, that is, teachers who are weak in the mother tongue but have the aptitude and attitude in the teaching of good moral values, may be left out of this. It would be a pity.

With that note, I beg to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (2). We will finish this amendment at 3 o'clock. Dr Tan.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock: I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Mr Goh Choon Kang is not here. Mr Lau.

Mr Lau Ping Sum (Yio Chu Kang): ( In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LA 1500 of the Main Estimates.

I would like to speak about the problem of teachers who teach Chinese as a second language. From 1959 to 1983, the enrolment in Chinese primary schools declined over the years. In 1959, the number of students who enrolled for Primanry one classes in Chinese schools wes about 27,000 and for English primary schools about 28,000. However, in 1983, only 851 enrolled for Primary one in Chinese schools (about 2% of the total) but 42,218 enrolled for English primary schools, taking up 98% of the total. As we all know, from 1984 onwards, the Government has implemented the unified stream with English as the first language and mother tongue as the second language. We know that it is the parents who decide on the choice of stream. For the sake of better prospects of further education and career development through building a solid foundation in the English language from young, parents have sent their children to English schools. After all, English is not only the language of administration, it is also the main language for international trade, finance and technology. In the schools, English is the medium of instruction for most of the subjects, such as history, geography, mathematics and science.

Apart from the Chinese language, and one or two other subjects such as Confucian Ethics and moral education which are taught in Chinese, all other subjects are taught in English. Therefore, the Chinese teachers cannot help feeling that their talents are wasted because Chinese is not used extensively. Not much importance has been attached to the learning of Chinese. Some students learn Chinese mainly for passing examinations. As a result, the standard of Chinese today is a far cry from what it used to be. Some of the talented in our society were educated in English schools. Under the colonial educational policy, they have lost their cultural traditions and their feelings for pride in their own mother tongue. They are not enthusiastic to learn the Chinese language. Some even go to the extent of saying that Chinese has become an unnecessary burden to their children's learning process and they even send their children overseas for education to avoid learning Chinese.

On the other hand, in implementing its policies, the Ministry of Education often emphasizes the importance of English and Mathematics. For example, teachers who obtain distinctions in English, English Literature and Mathematics in their 'O' level examinations are given an extra increment i.e $100 each month. The Chinese teachers find it difficult to enjoy this incentive because Chinese is not included in the list. I understant that in the case of CL2 teachers reaching the age of 55, when they apply for extension of service, the chances of success are almost zero. If this is true, no wonder the morale of Chinese language teachers is very low. Some are even sceptical of the value of their knowledge and have lost confidence in themselves. Over the years, the Ministry of Education has stated that teachers from the various language streams are treated equally. But is the Ministry putting into practice what it preches?

I would like to ask the Ministry of Education whether they agree that the morale of our CL2 teachers is rather low. Is there any comprehensive plan and practical measure to boost the morale of our Chinese teachers and to improve the learning environment for the Chinese language? We know that the learning of our mother tongue is important not only because it confers greater knowlege of the language but more importantly because it affects the cultural traditions, values and spiritual life of our society.

Another question I would like to raise is the long-term plans for the training of Chinese language teachers. Taking the number of students who major in Chinese language today, we can see that in time to come there will be aproblem of insufficient Chinese teachers to meet the demand. Is it wise for us to be over-dependent on Chinese teachers from overseas? Has the Ministry of Education formulated a definite solution to preempt the future problem of a shortage of Chinese teachers?

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: Mr Speaker, Sir, recently the Chinese press has carried quite numerous articles concerning Chinese school teachers and since Mr Lau has already mentioned some of it, I would not repeat what he has said. But the fact is because of the excess of Chinese school teachers that they were transferred and made to do other subjects which they were not very familiar with and all this simply because of the change of using English as the main stream of education instead of English and Chinese.

Sir, many of the teachers' morale has fallen quite a lot. It has already been mentioned, so I would just pick only a few points. Because of the switch from teaching in Chinese schools to teaching English, the problems have arisen because of the non-proficiency of teachers in English and they have difficulty in communicating with their students. As one person has put it in the Chinese press, he was reduced to merely saying "don't do this" and "don't do that". He could not express himself well enough and his discomfiture was made worse when students poked fun of him and because of his poor command of English he felt that he could not even retain the respect of the students as teachers.

Another problem lies in the matter of incentive bonuses and promotions. They feel frustrated when because of their poor English they can only gain incentive bonuses for mathematics, and not for other subjects. As regards promotions, they feel inadequate and because of the inadequacy in the English language, therefore their chances of promotions, say, to the post of Senior Assistant or the Vice-Principal are dim. And the Chinese school teachers also complain that in the mid-year pre-oral examination for students, when officers from the MOE go around to tell them what to do, these officers sometimes know no Chinese and there is always the fear that everything is not properly understood and there is some possible misunderstanding. All in all, they feel very demoralized in many ways. Since the system is going to be changed, with the new policy switch to teaching of moral values in the mother tongue, the point about Chinese teachers being in excess may not be so serious. The problem may soon be solved if the period for Chinese is increased from, say, six to eight hours so that the teachers will again be allowed to teach subjects best suited to them; all for the benefit of the students. All other problems which accompany these issues will also be solved.

But what I would like to stress, here, Sir, is that new problems may arise. You know, some of the teachers are already reaching retiring age. And in another five or six years, instead of an excess of Chinese teachers, there is the probability of an insufficiency of Chinese teachers. That is if there is no sudden switch again in education policy. So the only way to meet such a contingency is either to re-employ the Chinese school teachers, ie, those teachers who are willing to work on a temporary basis, or to take immediate steps to train more Chinese teachers now. That is the task which the Ministry has to face. I have spoken on this because some teachers had spoken to me and I wish to stress what I have already said.

Sir, a little while ago, you guillotined me and I had no chance to speak on independent schools. May I just rush this quickly and tell you why I want to speak on it?

The Chairman: Do you want to cover your next topic, Streaming, together?

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: Yes. First, on the matter of streaming, it has been going on for the last 8 or 9 years. But in spite of all the assurances given by the Government, there is still very strong opposition from the parents. They feel that their children who have been streamed have been discriminated against. They want their children to be given a chance to take their PSLE and later on, if possible, also the 'O' level examinations, at the same time as other students. In other words, instead of having to take eight years before their children can sit for the PSLE, let them have the same chance as others to sit for the examinations on the sixth year, so that if having been given a chance and they fail, the parents are satisfied that he extra years just could not be helped.

One way of helping them is not to allow promotion from Primary 1 to Primary 3 to be automatic. In other words, parents do not mind their children being detained for a short while in Primary 1 and Primary 2. But if you allow children to go straight on from Primary 1 to Primary 3 and then suddenly test them, they may find that they cannot cope at that stage. The main problem about streaming is that there is a stigma attached to it - a stigma attached not only to students, but also to the parents. Because other students will say that such and such a student is from the Extended or Monolingual stream. And, of course, it reflects very badly on the parents as well. Hence, this streaming business should not be continued. Streaming makes people unhappy, and I am sure the Education Ministry would not like to make people unhappy with such an issue.

On the matter of independent schools, Sir, that the Government has started, all the best things are given to the independent schools. But the point is, what happens to the non-independent schools? If everything, all the best, should be given to the independent schools, then it follows naturally that the other non-independent schools will not have the best. If education is the best available in independent schools, it will only be second best in all the other schools. I think Government should not have this kind of discrimination because it leads to more and more inequality and such inequality in schools, ultimately must lead to more inequality in the whole of society. I think Government should spend more time, attention and money on all the schools instead, rather than on a few exclusive schools.

Mr Goh Choon Kang (Braddell Heights): ( In Mandarin): Mr Chairman, earlier my colleague, Mr Lau Ping Sum had talked about the low morale of Chinese teachers and the Non-Constituency Member had also touched upon this subject. I would like to add that the former principal of Institute of Education, Dr Lau Wai Har, had also published an article in the Lianhe Zaobao touching on this subject, giving the impression that the low morale of Chinese teachers is both very serious and general. On top of it, there were other letters to the press by Chinese teachers. This gave mainly a general impression that the position of Chinese language is now lower, accordingly the Chinese teachers also have a lesser role to play and are in a lesser position. There is an excess of teachers of Chinese. They have no proper role and position in the schools, so they are just being shuffled about here and there to take charge of subjects beyond their scope of suitability or competency.

Sir, if this problem is really so serious, then I believe we should try to correct the situation. If it is a general and common situation, it will be detrimental to the teaching of Chinese. We know that since 1987, all the schools have been integrated the teaching of mother tongue has become more important. In respect of teachers of Chinese, if the situation has come to this stage, then it will have a very adverse effect on Chinese mother tongue education. I hope the Ministry of Education will pay attention to this problem and try to correct the situation.

The next point I wish to touch on is that when debating on the President's speech, I had spoken on the question of the proper naming of the "mother tongue". Now we used to call our mother tongue Chinese, Malay or Tamil as "Second Language". This will give people the impression that the mother tongue is at a secondary level or of less importance. I think we should change the name. We can directly call it "mother tongue" or the Chinese language subject as "Chinese and the Malay language subject "Malay" and the Tamil subject as "Tamil". English should be called as "English". We should do away with this calling by the "first language" or "second language".

Dr Ow Chin Hock (Leng Kee) (In Mandarain): Mr Chairman, I would like to talk about the bilingual policy. At the beginning of March when Prime Minister Lee was interviewed by Taiwan journalists, he said that if he had the opportunity to return to 1965 or 1970, then he would like to preserve all the Chinese primary schools and increase the English subject as second language and encourage all the parents to send their children to Chinese schools. In fact, it is not too late to amend this problem. ( ) This responsibility has now fallen on the shoulders of the second generation leaders.

I remember that in 1987 when Parliament was debating on bilingual policy, I had raised similar questions asking what practical measures the Ministry of Education had taken to ensure the standard of Chinese is maintained and there would be adequate supply of Chinese teachers, journalists, editors hereafter. But the answers given were the trite talks such as "the aims and principles of bilingual examinations and so on, the usual stuff, evading the question.

Outside the Parliament, in April in the same year, various Chinese newspapers as well as their readers raised various questions in the press giving many views and suggestions on Chinese mother tongue education and bilingual policy. In the end, the Ministry of Education had to issue a statement in early May saying that "the trend of language development was due to the choice of the parents. If the parents wanted Chinese mother tongue to first language and English as second language, the MOE would try to accommodate their wishes." This is the kind of tai chi play, something like a repartee out of pique. That is not a positive attitude in solving a question. I criticize but I also praise.

I think I am fair. Just now, what the Education Minister had announced and what his Minister of State had said about core values were encouraging. These are concrete and positive steps.

Here, I would like to give my views on three points on the strengthening of mother tongue education as the basis for the inculcation and conveying of traditional values which is the pressing task for the moment, especially at primary school stage.

The first is to set right the upside down pyramid. This means it is lopsided to have only four primary schools and nine secondary schools teaching Chinese as the first language. It is not logical. We should try as soon as possible to set the pyramid upright, that is, Chinese should be taught as a first language in more primary schools. At the moment, the reverted pyramid is not entirely put right. It is now more like a cylinder, as the Minister has announced just now that the number of primary schools teaching Chinese as the first language will increase from 4 to 10 and there are 9 secondary teaching CL1. This is the first step towards rectification.

The second point or suggestion is that we should use more flexible and lively teaching materials and methods to teach mother tongue which should be used as a means to convey the traditional values and not treat CL just as a language to teach. Teaching materials can be culled from details of daily living and from philosophies of life and major maxims. We can have resort to the various history events, legends, biographies, folklores, poems and novels, and so on, to inculcate values, to formulate standard of behaviour and the right attitude to deal with the world. Regarding teaching methods, more uses should be made up of pictures, diagrams, video tapes, cartoons, plays, and so on, to rouse students' interest and not let the teaching contents and methods be constrained by the prescribed list of characters and vocabulary. If we have to follow the list rigidly, a nursery rhyme like "Yao Yao Yao, Yao Da Wuai Poh Chia" will take primary pupils three long years to learn all the characters. It will be too regrettable.

The third suggestion is the creation of traditional Chinese school atmosphere and environment, so that primary students besides acquiring knowledge at school will be able to learn how to behave properly and how to deal with others. They learn to be orderly, respectful to teachers and elders, to speak and talk gracefully and be kind and friendly. While the teachers should set examples for the students, the standard of conduct of the school children can also be guided by such daily courtesy rituals as before and after a class when the teacher comes into or leaves the classroom, the whole class will stand up, bow and sit down. Also through non-examination subjects and extra curricular activities, primary students' contact with mother tongue can be increased.

Finally, I should emphasize that the functions of bilingualism need not be too polarised or bisected. We should be clear that English cannot be deemed to be neutral culturally, because EL not only introduces Science and technology and economic knowledge, it also transmits foreign thoughts and values which speed up the westernization process of our society. On the other hand, with rapid economic progress and ensuing import- ance of the Asia-Pacific area, the mother tongue has not only the function of transmission of traditional culture, its economic value has become increasingly important. Therefore, at our secondary school stage, we should allow more students with language talent to choose to study higher level of language, whether English or mother tongue, in order to cultivate more language talents for our country.

We should start now. Otherwise, it will be too late. In the book of Zhong Yong (The Golden Mean), it is stated that "a task well prepared at head will succeed, if not will fail.... A cause prepared in advance, there will be no regret." If we want to preserve our traditional culture and values, now is the time to work hard for it, before it is too late, even to regret it once again in future.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Mr Tang Guan Seng) (In Mandarain): Sir, I thank the Members who have spoken. They have brought up three main issues. The first issue is the supply of Chinese teachers. The second issue is the morale of the Chinese teachers. The third issue is the teaching materials of the Chinese language in schools. In fact, all these issues have been looked into by the Ministry of Education. We are actively trying step by step to adopt practical methods or measures to solve these problems.

Let me touch on each issue. In the early part of the 80s, our Chinese schools became part of a unified stream. As a result, we face the problems of excess Chinese teachers. However, it is a phenomenon of that transitional period.

According to forecast, if we do not recruit more Chinese teachers, then in five or eight years we will be faced with new problems, just as Dr Lee Siew-Choh has pointed out. That is to say, we will be faced with the problem, of a shortage of Chinese teachers. This is because the majority of the Chinese teachers were employed in the 50s and 60s and they will soon gradually retire. Every year from 1995 to 2010, the number of Chinese teachers retiring will be increased from the present 60 to 200. In other words, by 1997, we need on an average 195 non-graduate Chinese teachers and 80 graduate Chinese teachers each year. In order to ensure an adequate supply of Chinese teachers in the future, the Government is continuously recruiting graduate Chinese teachers in spite of the fact that there are excess graduate Chinese teachers at present. On the other hand, the Government started to recruit 'A' level students to be trained as teachers for primary schools last year. In order to strengthen the learning of Chinese and to raise the standard of Chinese, the curriculum of the Institute of Education was also revised to meet the situation.

In fact, other than chinese teachers, we also need a group of Chinese language personnel serving other fields, such as newspaper editors, journalists, civil servants and those people who know not only the Chinese language but the Chinese culture as well, including the entrepreneurs, businessmen, professionals and so on. We need all of them because all these people can contribute much to our cultural, educational and economic development in nation-building.

But under the present education system, most of the students can only attain a second language standard in the Chinese language. In order to cultivate more people conversant in Chinese and in order to meet the need for social development, the Ministry of Education is implementing measures to give more able students more opportunities to learn more Chinese. In primary schools, just as the Minister has said, from next year, other than the original four primary schools, there will be six more primary schools which will also be teaching Chinese as a first language. Five-year-old pupils will be enrolled in these ten schools, so that they will be able to have a more solid foundation in Chinese.

At the secondary school level, we already have nine SAP schools teaching Chinese as a first language. There are still vacancies for more students. However, at the moment there is no plan to encourage our students in junior colleges to study a higher standard of Chinese. Therefore, to correct this aberration, from January next year, in Hwa Chong Junior College and Temasek junior College, the Government will implement a Language Elective Programme (Chinese) which will not only teach Chinese at first language level but also teach the students to appreciate Chinese literature and learn creative writing. At the same time, students will also be sent abroad to take part in language immersion activities. Contacts will be established with foreign Chinese language centres, too. If necessary, we will also invite foreign teachers to come and teach at these colleges.

The Chinese libraries and teaching materials of these colleges will also be augmented and improved. Every year, there will be 20 scholarships awarded to students joining this programme. Every scholarship will have a value of $1,000 a year, for a period of two years. The value of this scholarship will be the same as that of the Humanities Scholarship awarded by the PSC. Here, I would like to convey on behalf of the Ministry of Education our thanks to the Chinese Clan Foundation and the Foundation for giving ten of these awards each. To encourage those who have completed the course to pursue the study of Chinese at tertiary level, under-graduate scholarships, tenable at NUS or at overseas universities, will be offered.

Let me mention in passing that the Chinese Studies Department of NUS has restructured its courses from last year. Other than the original "Chinese Studies", there will be an additional "Chinese Language" course. This year, there are 95 students studying "Chinese Studies" as well as "Chinese Language" courses.

I would now like to touch on another subject that has something to do with Chinese teachers, that is, the low morale of the Chinese teachers. For a school to be run well, not only should the teachers be happy with their job and have a high regard for their profession, there should also be a certain dedication on there part together with a high morale. Therefore the Ministry of Education is very concerned about some Chinese teachers whose morale is low. I feel that there are several contributing factors to their low morale which can be summed up as follows. First of all, as the Chinese schools have been phased out, many Chinese teachers have become redundant. This has led some Chinese teachers to feel that their roles have diminished in importance. Some are demoralised because their pupils perceive Chinese only as a subject for examination. Others are unhappy because they have to take heavier workloads. All these have affected their morale.

The Ministry of Education understands the situation and feelings of these teachers. In order to solve their problems and boost their morale, we are resorting to various measures. On the one hand, it is to raise their professional standard. On the other, we give them more opportunities for self advancement. These include inservice courses and seminars conducted by various divisions of the Ministry of Education and the Institute of Education have also taken steps to help them. There are also opportunities for long-term career development. For example, scholarships and bursaries are available to non-graduate teachers who qualify for a degree course. In terms of workload, a survey by the Ministry has confirmed that a small percentage of Chinese teachers has a heavier workload mainly because of more time needed in marking pupils' assignments. So we are sending more teachers to such schools.

With regard to some teachers in the English stream who are given increments after they have obtained credits in English, English Literature and Mathematics as pointed out by certain MPs, we must see it in the right perspective. It is because in the past, certain teachers did not have good qualifications to teach such subjects. So we encouraged them to get better qualifications. That is why this kind of incentive is given to them to encourage them to raise their standard.

As regards extension of retirement age, this matter has been resolved now. When a teacher has reached 55 and if he is physically fit and without an adverse record, generally we will allow him to continue to teach. Of course, it depends on the merit of each case. Generally the extension of retirement age will pose no problem.

Now the problem is that even with these various measures adopted, if Chinese teachers still think that their role is insignificant and their contribution is still not appreciated, their morale will still be low. Here, I would like to express my view that Chinese teachers have an important mission to carry out. The duty of a Chinese teacher is not only to teach linguistic skills like listening, speaking, reading and writing but more importantly also to convey Chinese culture and values to students. Although it is desirable to teach such values across the curriculum, I believe that because of their cultural background, Chinese teachers are more effective in playing a positive role in this area. This is a time-honoured mission and challenge which involve heavy responsibility for the Chinese teachers. The Ministry of Education recognizes the contribution of Chinese teachers. While we are taking various measures to boost their morale, we hope that they will strive hard to contribute their bit by playing their role in the spirit of "willing service to the young".

Talking about teaching materials for secondary and primary schools, these were formulated several years ago based on the situation, the social background and the need of the prevailing conditions then. For example, the materials for primary schools have been in use for some 10 years. At that time, other than language teaching we tried to teach the students national consciousness which was required in nation-building. Now that time and tide have changed, social and other conditions have changed while the problem of westernisation has appeared. So it is time for us to revise teaching materials. In the course of revision, we will try to preserve what we have achieved, that is, in the field of language teaching. At the same time we want to strengthen and incorporate traditional culture and values in the contents of the teaching materials in order to achieve our target.

Now I would like to touch upon the question of CL1 and CL2. I agree with what the Member for Braddell Heights has said. The term CL2 would give a person the feeling that it is of secondary importance. To change the term is very simple. But, we have to consider other implications. Chinese as a first language and Chinese as a second language are two separate subjects of different standards which cater to the learning needs of different groups of pupils. So if we suddenly change the term, then people will be confused as to what the standards of the subjects are. Therefore we must give some thought to it before considering any changes. It will take some time.

Finally, to sum up, the decreasing number of Chinese language talents including teachers is a serious matter that calls for our serious attention. I am glad that many Members have spoken on this subject. If Chinese teachers are lacking in number and quality, of course the standard of Chinese will also be affected resulting in a general weakening of traditional values. Therefore we must study how to increase the supply of qualified Chinese teachers. Once more I stress that the Government attaches great importance to the contributions of the Chinese teachers, particularly in the field of traditional values and culture. MOE will continue to pay attention to their problems and try to find solutions for them in order to ensure high morale in their work.

Mr Philip Tan Tee Yong (Paya Lebar): Sir, can I take my two amendments together?

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr Philip Tan Tee Yong: Mr Chairman, Sir, it is not uncommon to find relief teachers in our schools today. I believe it will continue to be so because of the difficulties the Ministry is facing in recruiting more permanent teachers. At the same time, Sir, I spoke with a few people and all of them have expressed concern with regard to the quality and standard in view of the fact that relief teachers are untrained. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister a few questions. They are: Is there a fixed ratio of relief teachers to permanent teachers for each school? If so, what is the ratio? Is there a limit to the period a relief teacher can be employed? If so, what is the period? Is there a minimum qualification before a relief teacher can teach a certain level or a certain subject? For instance, English. The few people that I spoke to give me the impression that relief teachers are usually given the weaker classes in the school. Thus I would like to ask the Minister whether it is true that most relief teachers are given the weaker classes in the school? Lastly, when does the Ministry expect that relief teachers will be replaced by permanent teachers?

I go on to the aspects of training. Sir, many schools are promoting the use of projects to enhance the pupils' learning. This, in my opinion, is highly commendable. But unfortunately, many projects are measured by the end results. This medium of measurement for projects has resulted in having projects undertaken not by the students themselves but very often by parents themselves or even professionals employed by parents. I think this negates the purpose of having projects in schools. My opinion is that a pupil's learning can only be enhanced if they do the projects themselves. Make the necessary mistakes in the natural course of performing the project, being corrected, and then learn from the experience of the mistakes. I think the process and not just the end products is more important.

But, Mr Chairman, this can only be achieved if all teachers who are in charge of projects are adequately trained. Very often you will find that many teachers who are in charge of projects do not know how to go about performing their project. I think the Ministry should consider training these teachers on projects before they ask pupils to perform these projects. Some areas of training in projects include, for instance, project management, which is very important, where and how can materials be found, how further research can be made and how to analyse the materials. The presentation of the project or the findings, the evaluation of the findings, and then do simple costing of the project. I hope that this will help in the making of projects a more worthwhile process of learning in schools.

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, may I take the two cuts together?

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Chairman, Sir, I have brought this question of class size up last year in this House. The Minister promised to look into it. At that time I said our schools were overcrowded. The situation today is still the same. The average class in our schools has an enrolment of about 40 to 43 pupils, except the independent schools. It was announced by the Government that each class in an independent school would have about 25 pupils. In this respect, Sir, the right move has been made as far as the independent school is concerned. But why is this same policy not extended to other schools? We know that a teacher can never teach effectively when his or her class is large. A class of 40 pupils is definitely too big. It is impossible for a teacher to teach meaningfully a class of this size. This is particularly more so in primary schools, especially in Singapore where language speaking is so important. Many Malay, Chinese and Indian families do not use the English language at all in their home. Many Chinese still use dialects.

The children of these families are enrolled in our primary school at the age of 6 years and they are expected to master the English language and in the case of Chinese pupils, also Mandarin as a second language. Within three years, these children are expected to sit a national examination where the English language will feature prominently. It is a great achievement for many of our pupils to pass the Primary 3 qualifying examination in view of the fact that these pupils do not have a home grounding in the English language and also a class size of primary schools which is so large. Of course, pupils have failed in the Primary 3 examinations and were sent to the Monolingual or Vocational stream. The sad part is that it is through no fault of these pupils at all and they have to suffer the traumatic experience of a failure in the start of their academic life at such a tender age. It is our education system that is the culprit and it is squarely to be blamed.

The structure of our education system still maintains large classes in our schools. It is impossible for our teachers to teach pupils the English language effectively if the pupils come from homes which do not have that language as a background.

Educationally, it is difficult to teach an average pupil to master enough English in three years to sit a national examination if that pupil did not have a head start in that language. The reason why many of the pupils who are able to pass Primary 3 examinations and also the Primary 6 examinations three years later in their school life was not due solely to the teaching in their schools, but due to private tutors employed by their parents to coach them to pass those examinations. I am not against parents employing private tutors to coach their children who are weak in any particular subject. But what I am objecting to is that poor students will be at a disadvantage. Their parents are too poor to engage tutors to give them extra lessons and their schools, due to the large classes, the teachers will not be able to teach them effectively. As a result, of course they fail. An innocent victim of our education system. No wonder many teachers of the schools have been advising the parents to engage private tutors for their children if they are weak in any particular subject, especially in the Primary 3 and Primary 6 levels. If the Government really wants to promote excellence in education, I say reduce the class size in our primary and secondary schools, other than the independent schools now. I know it is going to cost the Government hundreds of millions of dollars but it is well within the budgetary means of the Government and the Government should not use the lack of funds as an excuse. This priority to further invest more money in education with a specific purpose to reduce our class size is even more pressing in my view than the intended increase of salaries of selected top civil servants and Ministers. This is what I really think so.

Thousands of our future citizens' livelihood depend on whether or not they get a good education. I say that many of them will not get a good education, especially in the primary school level if this Government persists in maintaining over-crowded schools. It is within our economy to maintain the average class size of our primary and secondary schools at 30 students per class and I advocate that and I call upon this Government to implement this policy straightaway and not to drag its feet anymore. I know at the last time the Minister has assured that he will take steps to ease the overcrowding in the school, but the question is when. I want the Government to give an assurance that it will do so now. We do not want any more excuses.

In the addendum to the President's Address to Parliament on 9th January this year the Minister had only nice things to say and that was about all. There was nothing in the addendum specifically spelt out which will benefit the pupil. The Minister said:

'Since 1980 we have achieved significant progress in unifying and improving our education system. We have emphasized English as a key factor for Singapore's economic development and as a common working language in our multi-racial society.'

Then suddenly the Government had second thoughts on the emphasis on English language alone. This is what the Minister said in this regard:

'Today, all pupils learn English as a first language. As a result our children are increasingly exposed to Western influences, particularly through the media.'

What are the Western influences which the Government is unhappy about? Disco dancing? Surely not. The Government has given its official stand on disco dancing and by implication together with all the loud metallic music and the way of life that goes with disco dancing. What about the Western capitalist concept of making vast profits? Is the Government against that? Surely not. The Government through one of its Ministers has said that profits is not a dirty word. Then what is the western influence that the Government is so fearful of? The western influence that this Government fears most is western political influence. Westerners, through their long eventful political history, have found that no single party, group or person must be given full political power.

The Chairman: Order. Mr Chiam, I think you are straying from the subject. What has disco dancing and westernization got to do with class size?

Mr Chiam See Tong: This is the report, because we have not gone to the specific object.

The Chairman: I think you are commenting on the Presidential Address.

Mr Chiam See Tong: No. I am pointing out that the Government has not addressed this specific issue of class size.

The Chairman: Yes, but your subject is class size and continuing education.

Mr Chiam See Tong: That is right. I am pointing out that the Government has gone astray on all these subjects except the class size. I think I have a right to do that. I am not straying, Sir.

The Chairman: I think you are straying, Mr Chiam.

Mr Chiam See Tong: No, I am pointing out what the Government has done.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, can you please get back to your subjects. You are straying very far away.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, I am not straying.

The Chairman: You have one minute left.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, it is a western philosophy. I have got another cut, Sir. I can use that up.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, you have 10 minutes when you rise to speak, whether you have two subjects or three subjects. So you have one minute left.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I know, but I have got another cut. I will forgo even that, if need be.

The Chairman: What other cut do you have?

Mr Chiam See Tong: I have got one more at amendment No. (7), Sir.

The Chairman: That is another amendment. We can take that later on.

Mr Chiam See Tong: No, it is under Education.

The Chairman: Yes, but that is another amendment, that is right.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I know. I am going to complete this, otherwise it will be incoherent.

The Chairman: You have one minute. That's all.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Westerners have entrenched in their political systems institutional checks and balances to prevent any one getting absolute power. Hence the recognition of the role of the media to legitimately criticize the Government of the day. They recognize pressure groups and the active role of the opposition to be a watchdog of the government and to make the Government account for its action or as an alternative government. Western political philosophy recognizes the role of the people. They have a right to actively question the Government on any one of its policies, even though they have given the government mandate to rule the country at a general election. These are the western influences the PAP Government does not like. It is now shifting its stand. The Government has gone against its earlier policy and now intends to revive mother tongue of the various communities and the teaching of Asian and core values.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, your time is up. Please resume your seat.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, what about my other amendment?

The Chairman: Your other amendment will be taken later on. That is on the third university. That comes later in the afternoon.

Mr Chiam See Tong: It will be today, Sir. It will be this afternoon.

The Chairman: Yes, if there is time. But if you continue, there would not be time.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Then I will continue this afternoon.

The Chairman: Yes, all right.

The Senior Minister of State for Education (Dr Tay Eng Soon): Sir, the last few speakers, speaking under this head, have one point in common which has to do with teachers - the shortage of teachers and the training of teachers. I concur with them that everything should be done to reduce this problem of shortage of teachers because without an adequate number of teachers in schools, in classrooms, the business of education cannot proceed smoothly.

Sir, we all know that teachers and principals are the key people in schools. We have reached a stage when we want them not only to teach academic subjects well, we also expect them to inculcate good habits and values in our children. We are putting upon them a great responsibility and in their profession, teachers, in fact, affect the development and education of a whole generation of young people, the next generation of Singaporeans. We must therefore continue to attract enthusiastic and capable people to become teachers. The problem is how to do this. One or two Members raised the question of relief teachers. Relief teachers are an indication of the shortage of teachers in our schools. We have about 1,000 relief teachers still within the school system. We would like to reduce that number as much as possible. But how do we get more people to become teachers?

The need each year is for the Institute of Education (IE) to recruit some 700 people for both primary and secondary school teaching. The IE is barely able to recruit this number of people but by the mid-1990s the annual recruitment will have to increase to about 1,100 persons per year for the teaching profession. This is needed to cater for retirements.

Sir, the Ministry recently undertook a survey with the help of a professional firm to survey the attitudes of people, particularly parents towards the teaching profession. The survey revealed three interesting opinions. The first is that many people do not regard teaching as a choice profession. They regard it either as a second choice profession or in some cases as a last choice career. The second finding was that many parents, when asked if they would encourage their children to become teachers, say that they would not. They even go further to say that they would dissuade their children from becoming teachers. And when they were asked what they thought of the teaching profession, they said, "Yes, teaching is a noble profession. More people should consider going to teaching." They recognize the importance of teaching but they said that other people's children can go into teaching, but not their children! These are the findings of a survey and they are findings that are not promising from the point of view of trying to recruit more people into the teaching profession. We have to somehow overcome these prejudices, these opinions, so that more people will be prepared to come and become teachers.

There are many ways in which this can be done and the Ministry of Education is looking into all possibilities. More publicity of the teaching profession, explaining this to junior college students before they leave junior college to go to university, carrying out briefing sessions and education sessions with university students in their first year when they are choosing the subjects that they should study, so that they will not pre-empt the possibility of their becoming teachers by choosing the wrong subject combinations and also answering their questions on the scope of the teaching profession. All these measures are being taken and will continue to be taken to reach the group of people who are potential teachers.

The Ministry is also actively reviewing salary scales and the mechanism for promotions in the Education Service. We think that this is an important part in making the teaching profession more attractive in competition with the many other sectors which are also making demands for the same group of people. The principal, the vice-principal, the heads of departments in school, the professional officers at Ministry headquarters and CDIS, all provide critical professional leadership in the whole of the Education Service. We must therefore find ways to attract the most able of our teachers to assume these positions of responsibility so that together they can raise the professionalism of the teaching profession. The Ministry is looking into this matter.

It is also looking into the feasibility of establishing an Education Service Commission in consultation with the Public Service Commission. Sir, as Members will know, the Education Service is one of the largest departmental professional services. It needs the full attention of a dedicated body such as an Education Service Commission. If the Education Service Commission is established, then it will be responsible for the selection, the appointment and the promotion of teachers in the Education Service. I believe that with these concerted efforts now under study or in progress we should, in the course of time, bring more people into this vital service, the Education Service. Only then, can we reduce class sizes, can we do all the many desirable things that we want to do in Education to make it better for our children.

Sir, I just want to answer two points raised by Dr Lee Siew-Choh in an earlier speech. One is the subject of streaming. He made an impassioned speech about streaming and its consequences. He has not been in previous debates in this House where the subject of streaming had been extensively explained but I just want to let him know that, thanks to streaming, many of the weaker students in our schools now have the opportunity of spending an additional two to three years in school to be taught, to be given remedial help so that they can progress further in their education. As a result of this policy, more children are staying in school for longer period to receive an adequate education compared to the past when many of them in that same group dropped out from the system altogether. So contrary to what he has said, many children today enjoy more education and will emerge from school better educated than they were, say, 10 years ago.

Secondly, on the spending of funds on the non-independent schools, indeed, Sir, we will be spending quite a lot of money on the non-independent schools. In fact, the bulk of this budget is for them. In particular, when the secondary schools become single session schools, the Ministry of Education will be spending close to $1 billion to convert schools into single session schools, to upgrade their facilities and to improve the conditions in these schools.

Mr Lau Ping Sum: ( In Mandarin): Sir, in the debate on the policies of the Ministry of Education, very often we only hear the beginning but not the end. But this year they seem to be well prepared. We hope they will successfully implement their policy. On this note, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, before the amendment is withdrawn, the Minister has not answered this specific question whether they are or they are not going to reduce the class size of our schools.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: Sir, I thought I answered that question ---

Mr Chiam See Tong: No, you said you can't recruit teachers.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: --- by pointing out to the Member that until we can recruit enough people to become teachers, you can do all you like, you cannot reduce class sizes without enough teachers in the classrooms.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I think the Minister, instead of asking the question why there are not enough Singaporeans coming to become teachers, he should ask the question: why are Singaporeans not willing to become teachers?

Dr Tay Eng Soon: Sir, I think the Member was at one time a teacher for a short while and then he left teaching. If he wants to, we will welcome him back into the teaching service as a qualified person!

Mr Chiam See Tong: I believe the Minister is misleading this House. It was not for a short while. For your information, I was a teacher for more than 10 years, and I did it out of voluntary service. I not only taught in Singapore but I went to the jungles of Pahang to teach as well.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: In that case, I welcome you with open arms into the teaching service. But seriously, Sir, I do not disagree with the Member regarding the need to make class size smaller. We all want to do that. But until you can get more teachers - we are already in a shortage situation to man the normal classes that we have - until we can overcome the shortage and recruit even more teachers, the possibility of reducing class sizes is not great. We have to do this.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Chairman, there are many altruistic and good Singaporeans who are willing to become teachers. Many of them want to become teachers. But the Government has made it just impossible or almost difficult for them to become teachers. They have to be loaded with all sorts of administrative work, they have to do all kinds of jobs that are not related to the teaching profession. You ask any teacher, and they can list the whole lot to you. I think that is the true position.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: Sir, I think there is no point for the Member saying these things. The truth is, if he wants to help us, he should publicize the attractions of the teaching profession, persuade his friends, his colleagues, his friends' children to go into teaching.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Mr Speaker, Sir, just a brief intervention. I think this dialogue can go on for a long time. But the fact of the matter is that you cannot put the cart before the horse. Things have to be taken step by step. As Dr Tay Eng Soon has said, we must get the teachers first and the Ministry of Education is exerting a number of steps in this direction. Once that is done, the Member for Potong Pasir will see that we will reduce class size and that his wishes will be granted.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Order. Time for suspension.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.20 pm.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 3.02 pm until 3.20 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.20 pm

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in the Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head L - (cont.)

The Chairman: Amendment No. (3), Dr Tan.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock: I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Mr Leong is not here. Encik Wan Hussin.

Encik Wan Hussin bin Haji Zoohri (Aljunied GRC): ( In Malay): Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LC 1500 of the Main Estimates.'

Mr Chairman, speaking on the performance of Malay students, I would like to draw attention to the announcement made by the Senior Parliamentary Secretary over the statistics of the performance of Malay students in the past 10 years. The announcement gave us some relief because the statistics showed that Malay students have achieved an encouraging level of progress. This progress of course is the result of the efforts of all parties involved - students, parents, schools, Malay organizations, and the Government. The announcement was followed by a number of dialogue sessions between the Senior Parliamentary Secretary and Malay organizations and Malay and non-Malay individuals, aimed at gathering views and suggestions as to how the performance of Malay students could be further improved.

Mr Chairman, the problem of the educational performance of Malay students has had a rather long history. If we start off from the era of Mr Eunos Abdullah, a Member of the Legislative Council of the Straits Settlement in the 1920s, this problem would have had more than 60 years of history.

If I could summarize the history of the educational progress of Malay children, I would divide it into three phases to show how we have arrived at this present stage. The first phase is the pre-1980's; the second is the 1980's itself; while the third phase is the era towards the 1990's. In the first phase, specifically from the 1950's to 1970's, we find efforts to improve the education of Malay children being carried out by many Malay organizations individually, perhaps even divergently. For example, the work of KGMS (the Singapore Malay Teachers' Union), 4PM (the Malay Youth Literary Association), the Malay Education Council, and the Malay Education Committee, were rather disunited and had very little success. Then came the second phase, when the formation of Mendaki in 1981 and its activities in the past years drew public attention. For the first time, there is a new, more cohesive effort, a more unified approach among the Malay community, that turns the issue of upgrading the educational performance of Malay children into a joint effort. Now, we find the educational climate of the Malay community getting better as we move into the third phase of this process, the 1990s.

Mr Chairman, in my view, the preparations needed to enter this new era have already begun. The dialogue series held by the Ministry of Education with representatives of the Malay community is a very positive sign. The fact that the Ministry is prepared to take a new initiative to gather Malay and non-Malay viewpoints reflects its need for the support and cooperation of the community to overcome the educational problems of Malay children. This also shows a desire to merge the resources of the Ministry of Education and the Malay community, or Mendaki, in a joint partnership towards a common objective. And it is within this framework and in this spirit that I hope the suggestion to create a Working Committee as an outcome of the dialogue series could be implemented. If this could be done, there would be further evidence of progress in the history of the development of the educational performance of Malay students, which began as totally a Malay problem but has now become the joint responsibility of the Malay community and the Government.

Since the problem of the performance of Malay students involves not only the Malay community, but would affect the whole make-up of the national education system, it naturally becomes the responsibility of Mendaki and the education authority. It is my fervent hope that the formation of this Working Committee be accepted in principle by the Minister. Although the question of membership and terms of reference of this Committee can be considered in detail later, once the principle of its formation has been accepted, I would ask the Minister to consider not to confine its membership to Malays alone. It would be advantageous if suitable non-Malay persons could be included in the Committee. This would facilitate a better cross-fertilization of ideas. Secondly, if it could also be considered, beside looking at the weaknesses of Malay students, the Committee should also look into areas where Malay students excel or possess natural talents. Having identifed these strong points or talents, the Committee should then give the necessary support and encourage their development as far as possible.

The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Encik Sidek bin Saniff): Several of my Malay colleagues would like to make their comments on this particular subject. With your permission, Sir, may I defer my reply until after Encik Yatiman has made his statement?

The Chairman: After which amendment?

Encik Sidek bin Saniff: After Encik Yatiman has spoken on Code LC 1500.

The Chairman: All right.

Encik Sidek bin Saniff: Thank you. Sir. 3.30 pm

Mr Sia Khoon Seong (Moulmein): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Education is the largest employer in Singapore with a staff of about 20,000. Among them, a large number of younger people in middle management positions in the Ministry and in the schools, many of whom are new and lacking in experience. The problem at present is that the teacher sometimes perceives the Ministry of Education as a large unwieldy bureaucracy, which is insensitive and unresponsive to his personal needs and aspirations. The teacher sometimes sees his principal who is his immediate supervisor as a purveyor of instructions from the Ministry or from the Instruction Manuals, and not as a person who provides professional leadership in the school.

The problem is this. The Ministry has not developed principals who are their first-line managers fast enough to meet its needs. We need in our schools principals who will treat their teachers in ways that lead to high performance and career satisfaction.

Many large corporations in America and Japan have had to deal with the problem of ensuring that every individual member of the corporation sees himself as an important part of the whole organization and as having a vital contribution to make to it. Perhaps the Ministry of Education should learn how to manage and motivate people from the experience of such corporations. This approach has become known as people centred management. J. Sterling Livingston of the Sterling Institute, USA, said:

'The difference between employees who perform well and those who perform poorly is not how much they are paid, but how they are treated. All managers can learn to treat their employees in ways that will lead to mutual expectations of high performance. The most effective managers always do.'

The principal who is a people centred manager is one who recognizes that the teacher is a key factor in the school. Such a principal would devote his time and energy to developing his teachers and to creating an environment in which they become self-motivated to give of their best. The net result of this enlightened approach will be that the teachers will be positively motivated to do their best for the school and the ultimate beneficiaries will be the pupils under their charge.

Two significant developments have prompted my concern. The first is that the Ministry is giving greater autonomy and discretion to the principals to run their schools. And the second is the provision by the Ministry of training for aspiring principals and vice-principals to attend the Diploma in Education (Administration) courses. I welcome the move to give principals greater autonomy and discretion in the running of the schools. But I wonder how prepared some of the new principals and vice-principals are in accepting and properly exercising such powers. I am therefore anxious to know about the training the Ministry of Education is providing in their EDA courses and also the way these aspirants to positions of leadership in our schools are selected. How much emphasis is placed on the importance of understanding and dealing with the human factor in people management? By what criteria are they judged to be fit to be principals and vice-principals of our schools? What are the qualities they possess that make them special and worthy of selection?

I firmly believe that as the older and experienced principals retire and leave the service, we must carefully select their successors and train them well. We have invested a great deal in our educational system in terms of financial and manpower resources. We must not allow this to go to waste for want of competent and an enlightened management at critical levels of the system. Most of all we must not fail because the future of our children and of our nation are at stake.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin (Pasir Panjang GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, I want to talk on extra-curricular activities in schools. I would like to know whether the Ministry has plans to implement the recommendations made by the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation. The Report recommends among other things:

'By improving the PE in school and the ECA sports programme, a better quality of life through sports can be achieved.' Another remark made by the report is, "by giving more importance to the acquisition of lifetime sports skills in schools". My questions are as follows:

How will the Ministry provide sufficient number of qualified PE teachers in primary schools to teach the basic rudiments of skills training in the selected sports and games? I would like to suggest perhaps, to overcome some of the problems, the Ministry could liaise with respective national sports associations which have qualified coaches and expertise to help schools to nurture some of these skills in sports training.

The Ministry could also encourage schools to select and promote certain games according to the interest and enthusiasm shown by the students and teachers. Some schools are known by the games that they have played. For example, St. Andrews known in the early days for its rugby and perhaps boxing. Anglo-Chinese School known for its athletics and maybe swimming. And many other schools that have excelled in some of these sports.

My next question is whether the Ministry has any plans to provide up-to-date sports facilities to meet the demands of training of some of these sports when new schools are built in new housing estates.

My last point is on talents and nurturing of skills or potentials among youngsters in schools. Some students may be about average in their academic performance but have natural talents and aptitudes in art, music or even games. I would like to support and reiterate the point made earlier by Encik Wan Hussin, Member for Aljunied GRC, when he mentioned about MENDAKI and the Ministry of Education working together to improve the performances of the Malay students. Perhaps both MENDAKI and the Ministry of Education should also look into the non-academic areas in which Malay students have natural talents. By helping them to develop their potential talents, it would enhance their chances for success in life later on, especially those talented in areas like creative or designing arts, music or even sports. Hopefully, we can get more Iskandar Jalils, Sulaiman Suhaimis, Jaffar Ahmads, Zainal Abidins and Fandi Ahmads, to name a few who have been successful in their respective skills.

Encik Abdul Nasser bin Kamaruddin (Hong Kah GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, recently the Ministry of Education launched a recruitment exercise to encourage more of the population to join the teaching profession. This point was highlighted again by the Senior Minister of State for Education, Dr Tay Eng Soon, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education, Mr Tang Guan Seng. What I would like to ask the Minister is how successful this exercise has been and whether it has thus far achieved its desired objective.

Sir, may I venture to suggest that perhaps the shortage of teachers in the teaching profession is artificial, in the sense that more and more teachers are being redeployed out of the schools and placed in positions at the Ministry's headquarters. In the Ministry, I understand, there is a Curriculum Planning Division charged, among other things, with tasks of designing, reviewing and revising the school curriculum and subject syllabi. It also monitors and appraises the teaching and learning of subjects in the school curriculum. Among other tasks, it provides consultancy services in matters relating to the curriculum. Staff in the Division, I understand, are drawn from staff strength of the Ministry's schools.

The Curriculum Development Institute of Singapore, Mr Speaker, also has a large complement of staff drawn from the teaching profession. Among its tasks is also to constantly develop the curriculum packages such as school textbooks, workbooks, teacher's guides, manuals and handbooks for the improvement of the teaching/learning process.

Sir, it would appear that the two areas of responsibility of the departments, the Curriculum Planning Division and the Curriculum Development Institute of Singapore, overlap one another. And both departments have approximately the same staff strength. I would therefore like to urge the Minister to undertake a review of the CPD and the CDIS with the view to streamlining its areas of responsibility and possibly, if necessary, merging the two, so that the number of teachers presently seconded or serving in these departments would be able to be redeployed back into the schools or other areas.

On this note, Sir, I would like to support the suggestion brought up by the Member for Aljunied GRC, Encik Wan Hussin. Education serves as a basis of all Malay endeavours to improve ourselves. The perseverance and continuous efforts put in by students, parents, teachers, Malay organizations and the Government have borne fruit. Recent years have shown that the performance of Malay students has improved. But it is important for us to double our efforts. Comparing and measuring of performances should be restricted to among the Malays first, while the performance of the other ethnic groups should serve as an impetus to the Malays to further improve ourselves. There is still so much to be done. The spirit, perseverance and efforts have to be continuously upgraded for the sake of a more complete and meaningful performance and achievement.

In this regard, I again support the call by the Member for Aljunied GRC that the Ministry consider the setting up of a joint working committee, comprising of officials from the Ministry and Malay organizations, namely, Mendaki. Officials from the Ministry could also include staff who have been redeployed if the Minister takes up my suggestion to merge CDIS and CPD. Such a committee would be able to harness the professional expertise available in the Ministry as well as making available the necessary logistical support services. Malay organizations, on the other hand, would be better placed to concentrate on parental education and the need for parents to place a premium on their children's education.

I believe the committee should involve members drawn from all sectors and should include non-Malay participants who are concerned with the issue so that there can be a meeting of minds to tackle the wider problems. With the formation of this joint cooperation between the Government and the community in tackling what can be described only as a national issue, we would have taken a small but positive step in the right direction. After all, Sir, a thousand journeys begin but with one small step.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Encik Yatiman Yusof): Sir, about two years ago, the Minister for Education announced the new criteria for admission into junior colleges and pre-university centres. Under these new criteria, applicants must pass certain subjects. For Arts courses, apart from the first and second languages, they must also obtain S7 for Maths. For the Science course, applicants must also do well in at least one Humanities subject.

Could the Minister kindly enlighten the House on the following queries:

(1) What are the implications of this new policy on the quality and quantity of JC intakes?

(2) Has this policy reduced the opportunity of certain groups, for example, Malays, to enter JCs?

Sir, I ask the second question because, following the announcement of the recent 'O' level results and applications to JCs, I was informed that the number of Malay students entering JCs has been significantly reduced.

Sir, related to this subject of Malay students' performance, I would like to share the sentiment expressed by the Member for Aljunied GRC for a greater involvement by the Ministry of Education through some kind of joint effort to help the Malay students. My colleague who had spoken earlier had emphasized the new perspective that is required if the effort to help the Malay students are to be effective.

Sir, the Malay problem, be it social, political or educational, is a national problem. If it is not a national problem, then the problem that is faced by drug addicts would not be given national perspective. If the Malay educational problem is not seen as a national problem, then the support given to Mendaki must be very much lacking. And if we see the Malay political problem is a non-national problem, we would not be seeing GRC.

Sir, in view of this, any indication of willingness from any party to help solve this problem ought to be welcome and applauded. Sir, I am compelled to restate this position following remarks made by the hon. Member for Leng Kee a few days ago. The Member said that there have been some unhappiness expressed on the Government's policy of giving free education to the Malays at least at University level. While the Member may be expressing what is legitimately the concern of some section of the Chinese community, I hope we should be able to see it in a broader national perspective. Sir, it is in this context that I welcome the suggestion, if it is to be implemented at all, the proposed joint committee, as mentioned by the Member for Aljunied GRC. The involvement of non-Malays for such joint committee is crucial for their involvement will not only provide a cross-fertilization of ideas from among educationists, professionals and people who are familiar with the problem of child development but also to provide the much lacking perspective of cross-cultural approach to this problem.

Encik Wan Hussin had earlier mentioned of how the Malays themselves tried to solve this problem from the perspective of the Malay community through the formation of Mendaki. We need to move one step forward by involving others in a semi-formalized form of joint effort and through such joint effort we will be able to enrich and strengthen the capability of this proposed group and at the same time serve to deepen mutual understanding at the working and thinking level of solving the Malay education problem.

Dr John Chen Seow Phun (Hong Kah GRC): Sir, the Economic Committee in its landmark report published in early 1986 has emphasized the importance of having a thinking and creative population so that our people can acquire a niche in the global economy of the 1990's by being quick to see and seize opportunities, spot new trends and adapt to new circumstances. "Our education system must provide the means for them to acquire these skills", says the report.

Sir, our education system has been similar to that of the Japanese with its reliance on rote learning, the amassing of knowledge and the confirmation of learning through institutionalized tests. While this system has served us well in producing a knowledgeable and skilled workforce in a relatively short period of time, we have paid a price for not being able to foster development of creativity and thinking skills in our students. In an examination-oriented system such as ours, the pressure is always present for schools to be pre-occupied with preparing students for examinations by teaching facts and com- pleting syllabuses. It is not uncommon for schools to even drill students in the techniques of answering exam questions. The society as a whole has come to believe that top exam results are the best vindication of a person's worth and therefore the best way to success. This is misleading and not in line with our objective of educating each individual to his maximum potential.

Sir, although our education system has produced more students passing examinations and obtaining better results than before, it is lacking in nurturing a creative and thinking mind. From my observations and my colleague's observations among the students in the university, there is a general lack of initiative, fear of making mistakes, reluctance of speaking up in class to participate in discussions, lack of an inquiring mind, not strongly grounded in fundamentals and are more likely to learn by rote than by understanding. These students are among the top 10% of the product of our education system. If anyone doubts my words, all he needs to do is to convince the Ministry of Education to change the style of the exam questions for PSLE, 'O' and 'A' levels without changing the content and see what happens.

Sir, the bias towards rote learning benefits poorer students and help them pass examinations and acquire useful skills to earn a living in our modern economy. However, for the abler students the extra time and effort spent in order to score the best possible grades could be better used to achieve a more rounded education to foster creativity and thinking skills and to develop other aspects of one's faculty.

Since 1984 the Ministry has introduced the Gifted Education Programme to provide opportunities for the intellectually gifted to develop their potential to the fullest. This is a good programme but it only caters to a very small group of pupils. I am glad that the Ministry has also introduced thinking skill lessons based on Edward de Bono's lateral thinking method in some of the schools and is planning to extend these lessons to more schools. This is a step in the right direction. However, these lessons are separated from the main curriculum and the benefits would there- fore be limited. It would be good if such creative teaching and learning which encourage thinking could be integrated into the core curriculum. I know that at present students in schools do get involve in project work but are these work sufficient. May I take this opportunity to ask the Minister what other measures is the Ministry considering to foster creativity development? I would like to suggest that perhaps the Minister could consider for a start extending the method of teaching adopted in the gifted education programme to a much larger group of students in the primary and secondary schools, say, the top 10-15% of the cohort. The curriculum and scope of the programme need not be as heavy and intense as the GEP. If we implement such a programme, although this group of students may not at the end get better grades than before, I am confident that they will become much more creative and independent and have more depth in their thinking which will go a long way in helping their future studies and career development.

The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Encik Sidek bin Saniff): ( In Malay): Mr Chairman, I am replying on behalf of the Minister.

As the Senior Parliamentary Secretary, Education, I held eight dialogue sessions with Malay organizations and Malay and non-Malay individuals who have an interest in education in November and December 1988 with the aim of getting feedback, views, comments and suggestions on how the performance of Malay students in school could be improved. These dialogue sessions have been worthwhile. The sessions have facilitated an exchange of ideas and explanations on issues relating to the education of Malay students. The Ministry is now studying the suggestions offered.

Concern has been raised over the poor performance of Malay students in English, Mathematics and Science, which are important core subjects, especially in the primary schools. It is recognized that the primary school is where the foundations of these subjects are laid, particularly in the case of Mathematics which, among the cognitive subjects, is where pupils of all races are weakest and where the performance of Malay pupils is by far the lowest. The Ministry of Education has expressed its willingness to assist teachers from Mendaki and similar organizations, like Taman Bacaan, which have been running tutorial classes for Malay students outside school hours. A training course has been conducted which concentrates on remedial teaching in Mathematics. The course deals with the weaknesses of students and the strategies to be employed to improve their performance. At the moment, 23 tutors from Taman Bacaan have undergone the course organized by the Ministry and they completed it last Friday. More such courses will be planned.

Mr Chairman, as evidence of the cooperation, a mathematics camp jointly organized by Mendaki, Taman Bacaan, the Science Teachers' Association of Singapore and the Curriculum Development Institute of Singapore (CDIS) will be held in June this year. 400 Malay/Muslim students are expected to undergo the camp. Both STAS and CDIS are planning the activities and preparation of materials relevant for the camp. Another initiative now being considered is the setting up of a working committee to study the socio-economic, cultural, attitudinal, familial and other factors that might influence the educational performance of Malay students. The proposed committee will be a joint effort between the Ministry and Mendaki to plan and draw up programmes and strategies towards the overall upgrading of the academic performance of Malay students. The committee will be carrying out school-based as well as community-based programmes to improve the performance of Malay students. Specific attention will be given to mathematics and English. The activities planned include (1) a programme on being a good mother, (2) a quiz, (3) assisting Mendaki and Taman Bacaan to improve the effectiveness of their tutorial classes, (4) setting up study centres at the void decks of HDB blocks and in community centres, and, where possible, setting up mathematics parks, (5) using the mass media to develop interest in mathematics, (6) carrying out a survey on the factors that affect the performance of Malay students.

In addition to these activities, schools will continue to give attention to its weaker students to improve their performance through tutorial or remedial classes. All these efforts must have the support of parents in order to succeed. We therefore urge parents and the community to play their part. I am confident that, given the increased consciousness now shown by the Malay community, this can be achieved.

Mr Chairman, I would like to express my appreciation for the contributions, concern, ideas of fellow Malay Members of Parliament, like Encik Abbas, Encik Nasser, Encik Yatiman, relating to two important matters. I shall put it briefly. Firstly, Insha Allah, the setting up of the committee will be carried out in cooperation between Mendaki and the Ministry. I hope by May this would be finalized.

Secondly, your point that we should ensure that the committee include non-Malay individuals to reflect the idea that this is a national effort, that this is another step towards improving the performance of Malay students, both points are noted and I shall convey them to the Ministry and the Minister.

The Chairman: Dr Tay, guillotine time is in three minutes.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: Sir, I intended to respond to five Members of Parliament on five different subjects but since I have only three minutes, allow me to respond to one or two more extensively. First of all, the point raised by Mr Sia Khoon Seong, the Member for Moulmein, I welcome his views about the need for the training of principals, vice-principals and those in leadership positions in schools. I agree with him that in a large organization like the school where there are 60 or 70 teachers, the management of professionals is of highest importance. Good management leads to good work conditions, job satisfaction and people doing their work well in the classroom. So we agree that we should provide training for principals and vice-principals. In fact, the Ministry has been doing this since 1985. Every year a small group of principals, about 20 in number, are taken in to do a Diploma in Education (Administration) course. A similar course is run for vice-principals. The number is kept small because it has to be a very interactive group, working with senior principals, by means of dialogue rather than just by lectures in the classroom. The result of this has been very positive. Those who have been through this course have a lot of praises for the course and we know from the feedback that they are effective principals or vice-principals when they get back to the schools. A similar programme has been mounted for the heads of departments in schools called the "Further Professional Certificate or Diploma in Education" with the same objective - management training for those who have to help run schools.

Sir, Encik Abbas raised the question of ECA. I assure him that we take this seriously. We will be studying the report of the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation and we will look into all the recommendations and see how they can be implemented in our schools. Our plan is to give every school a full complement of physical education teachers so that sports and physical fitness can be properly taught and nurtured in the schools. I agree with him that there should be games for all students in schools. There should also be games for excellence. These are two different levels. We want all children in schools to acquire some game skills. This is for life. This is useful for them. But we also want those who have the ability to excel and therefore schools are encouraged to identify which game they can excel in, whether it be rugger or badminton or swimming, whatever, and to make a name for themselves in these areas. Indeed, a number of schools have done so.

The Chairman: Would you like to wind up?

Dr Tay Eng Soon: I cannot do justice to the Members when they have brought up so many points. But I would like to suggest that if they want to have answers to their points they could raise them again as Questions for Oral Answer or they could write directly to me and I can furnish them with the answers.

The Chairman: That is a good suggestion. Encik Wan Hussin, would you like to withdraw your amendment?

Encik Wan Hussin bin Haji Zoohri: ( In Malay): I would like to thank the Senior Parliamentary Secretary. There appeared to be many indications of enthusiasm in his reply and we shall await the moment when they are put into effect. On that note, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (4) - three minutes. Encik Yatiman, I suggest you make your point so that we could have a reply.

Encik Yatiman Yusof: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LD 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the schools have long been regarded as one of the most suitable places for inculcation of various desirable values. It is in school that our young citizens of impressionable age groups are being taught new concepts, ideas and values. As the major source in which the minds and attitudes of the future citizens are shaped and moulded, the schools with both in form and content, including the curricula, must undoubtedly reflect the aspirations of the

people.

I believe the Ministry saw a lot of merit in emphasizing the importance of history so that children of tomorrow are able to link themselves with the past. It is for this reason I support ---

The Chairman: Encik Yatiman, I suggest you ask your question so that we can move on with the rest.

Encik Yatiman Yusof: I would like to ask the Minister to look into the possibility of strengthening multi-racialism in schools by giving our new schools multi-racial names after they have demolished old schools, such as Kampong Glam, Kota Raja, Umar Pulavar and Min Chong Schools.

Encik Sidek bin Saniff: Sir, over the last 10 years, about 20 aided schools which have been closed or converted into Government schools have been able to retain their old names for the new school premises. But for the schools with Chinese dialect names, the names were changed to hanyu pinyin.

Question No. 2 - name retention is considered only for aided schools which have been closed or converted into Government schools. The retention of a school name is based on its examination results and its contribution to education in terms of academic excellence, sporting achievements, tradition and history. Government schools that are closed down because of dwindling enrolment are not considered for name retention, just like Jalan Kayu School which is a Government school was closed in December 1988 because of dwindling enrolment. It had only nine classes at the time of closure and these pupils were absorbed by established schools in the area.

The Chairman: Encik Yatiman, withdraw your amendment.

Encik Yatiman Yusof: Sir, I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (5) - three minutes. Encik Wan Hussin.

Encik Wan Hussin bin Hj Zoohri: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LE 3200 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, in raising this amendment, I am made to understand that the Ministry of Education gives some financial assistance to certain Islamic religious schools. I would like to raise some questions in this regard. Firstly, what are the conditions or the criteria for these schools to qualify for such assistance? Secondly, what is the quantum given to these Islamic religious schools? Thirdly, would the Minister consider reviewing this quantum with the hope of raising it, and lastly, what other forms of assistance are given to these Islamic religious schools other than this financial assistance?

Encik Sidek bin Saniff: Sir, for FY89 the Ministry has made provision of $10 per capita grant to the Islamic schools. There is no plan to increase the grant.

From the questions by Encik Wan Hussin, may I suggest that he take up the case and let my Ministry consider it all over again?

Encik Wan Hussin bin Haji Zoohri: Sir, on his suggestion, I will try and do that. I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (6), Encik Abbas - three minutes.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LF 9863004 of the Development Estimates.

Sir, I will be very brief. First, I would like to commend the Ministry of Education for its efforts in building a modern building for the College of Physical Education with well equipped sports facilities. I would like to know from the Minister whether these up-to-date facilities could well be extended to our national sports associations for our athletes and sportsmen to use during the evenings or even during the weekends.

I would also like to know whether the Ministry has plans to increase the number of trainees in the PE College to meet the demands for PE teachers in schools, especially in primary schools, as recommended in the Report of the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation.

Dr Tay Eng Soon: Sir, the College of Physical Education that was referred to is in the process of construction. It will be ready for the intake of students this coming July. With that intake, it is hoped that they will take in at least 60 teachers or trainees for the secondary school programme and another 60 for the primary school programme. The facilities there are first-class not only for the training of teachers but it will also be made available to national sports associations to carry out their training programmes, their matches and practices. I understand that some of the experts at the PE College will also be available to help national sports associations upgrade themselves to train their coaches. But this arrangement will be done through the Singapore Sports Council.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: Sir, I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Dr Dixie Tan (Ulu Pandan): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head L be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LG 3200 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the subject of a third university has been in the air for some time. I submit that there is an urgent need for a third university for Singapore because the GPC Chairman for Education has previously discovered that there are 11,000 students who are overseas studying in other universities. So this is the size of the actual need that has already been perceived.

Secondly, our universities are providing education for only 4% of the student cohort. This, I believe, is too small a number, too low a percentage, if we are to be a nation that is 100% literate and a nation that is functioning at a high technological level.

Thirdly, Sir, there is a hiatus in tertiary education for a number of subjects such as education, performing arts, and therapies of various kinds such as physiotherapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy.

I refer to MOE's addendum to the President's Address on 9th January, part of which says:

'If the numbers justify it, we will also establish another tertiary institution to teach subjects such as music, speech, drama, dance and art. If not, we will link the institution to NUS or NTI and award their degrees and diplomas.'

Sir, the number of students seeking admission for a newly-offered subject will always be small, in particular this will be true for performing arts, because the number of students in school who are offering these subjects at '0' and 'A' levels are at this moment very small. They are very small because the number of teachers available for these subjects are very small. So it is a situation of the chicken and the egg. Therefore, Sir, I would suggest that we should not wait for sufficient numbers to justify it. If we perceive that there is a need, we should just carry on and start these departments in the university, however small the starting numbers of students.

Then again, Sir, I have made this point before - I feel that each of our universities should be broad-based and should offer essential disciplines to be included in the subjects. If we do not do this, and if we start a third university for, let's say, only education and the performing arts, I fear that, with the Singapore mentality, a third university may end up being regarded as a third rate university. Also, Sir, please do not forget to include a school for therapists because, as the Minister would know, there is a crying need for graduates in these disciplines.

Finally, the location of the campus, I hear, has been mooted to be the present Institute of Education campus. If we think on these lines, I feel that this campus may be too small to have a university that is broad-based and offering the essential disciplines.

Mr Leong Horn Kee (Thomson): Sir, I shall be brief to make sure that the Minister has the chance to reply. I would like to join in this call for the provision of more university places in Singapore for our students. During the debate on the Presidential Address, I did make a speech on the need for more university places for Singapore students. There were a few points I made in that particular debate. I would like to repeat them.

The first is the urgent need for a third university because there is a big demand for university places. I also tabled during the meeting a table showing that Singapore is, in fact, behind some countries in the provision of university places on a per capita basis. In fact, we are quite far behind countries like Japan and South Korea. In Singapore, there are about 1,622 places per hundred thousand population, whereas in Japan and South Korea, the number is beyond 2,000 places for the same per capita base.

I also asked the Minister at that time whether he could consider two other proposals which are meant for adult education. There are many Singaporeans who missed the chance to go to university and are very keen to have an opportunity to get university degrees. I proposed two ideas: one is the open university; the second is the idea of providing external degree programmes within our present universities, whereby working adults can do their own part-time courses and earn degrees in the process. This matter is quite important. In fact, I notice that the Straits Times recently also came out with a full-page write-up on the need for university education among the Singapore adults. They asked: Is there life without a university degree? Many Singaporeans felt that it is important for them to earn degrees to get ahead in life. Therefore they felt that by some means whatsoever, whether it is a full-time education or a prt-time process, if they could obtain degree, they can get ahead in life. They will become, as we always say, a more worthwhile citizen and have a better place in Singapore. This would also enable them to exploit their own potential to the fullest. Therefore, I would like to call on the Minister to please consider all the above proposals seriously.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, I rise to support the hon. Members for Ulu Pandan and Thomson's call for an additional university. They have made good points and I shall try to add one or two more.

Sir, as the society becomes more affluent our middle-class society becomes larger, I think most middle-class parents would like to see every one of their children to be in the university. Therefore, I think there is really a demandfor a third university. And I think the number of children going abroad is not 11,000, but I believe it is 12,500. So there is a need really for a third university. As regards funds, there is really no excuse. Our Government can well afford to have a third university and maintain it.

Sir, one of the fears of the Government of having too many university graduates is that they feel that it will politically destabi- lize our society. I can assure the Government that they need have no such fear because our society now is well educated. I do not think university students who come out will go about throwing stones and breaking windows. On the contrary, they will contribute to the economy of the country. And that is not my view, that is the view of Dr Albert Winsemius. He said that one of the ways of promoting indigenous entrepreneurs is to have more university graduates. All university graduates are supposed to be taught to think. If they are out of job, then they will really think and start business themselves, and that is where we can have our indigenous entrepreneurs.

Sir, as regards the ratio, I think we are definitely behind most countries. I know that in New Zealand, where I had my first university degree, they have something like four

universities there. At that time they only had a population of 2.5 million or so. So I think we could do with three or four universities, instead of just an additional one. If we have another university here, I am sure we can attract a lot of students from the region. I think it would be good in a way to promote Asean closeness if they have students coming here to study. They would go back and they would not declare war on us, I am sure.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: Mr Chairman, Sir, I will also be very brief. The matter of fee increases has already been adequately mentioned by Dr Aline Wong and Dr Tan Cheng Bock. I do not need to emphasize on that any more.

But I am going to emphasize on three aspects of it, namely, that the Minister has mentioned about the loans available. He has said that students could repay their loan in four to eight years, anyway up to 15 years. It sounds a simple matter, but he has not mentioned anything about the interest payable. If the interest is pegged to the prime rate, then if the prime rate goes up, of course their burden also will go up, and that will affect the paying capacity of the students. This also could affect the timing of their marriage. Because if they have to look after their debts, then they will not have enough time to think of marriage at the same time. That would also mean a delay of family formation and that would definitely go against the population policy which the Government is trying to pursue today.

The second point which I want to mention is about the timing. The Minister has given two reasons for the timing of the announcement of the increase of fees. But I think there is one other reason which he has not mentioned, and that is the real reason, and that is, that the examinations are just about to go on. And, you know, the protest from the students has been very vehement. The way to avoid that is to make sure that they concentrate on their work, otherwise they might go in protests and demonstrations. And that is a good idea, I think, if they intend really to avoid all that.

The third point which I want to mention is that the Minister has said that the long-term aim of Government is to cut varsity subsidies further. I suggest that is a very wrong aim. I think we should invest more in the tertiary education of our people. After all, the Minister himself has admitted that education is a long-term investment for the nation. Therefore, more funds should be allocated to education instead. There need not be cutting of the allocation for universities in order that more funds can be channelled to the schools. But if more funds are really needed, then they can easily cut from the unnecessary expenditure on heavy armaments. I suggest, Sir, we should not stinge on education at all.

The Chairman: Dr John Chen is not speaking. Dr Tony Tan.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Sir, I do not think there is enough time for me to do justice to all the comments. I would just like to say that with regard to the comments from Dr Dixie Tan, Mr Leong Horn Kee and Mr Chiam See Tong on a third university, as Members will know, planning for a third university is currently being undertaken by my Ministry. We intend to do this carefully because, as Dr Dixie Tan has said, I do not think that we want to have a third rate university. If we have a third university, it must be a good university.

I would just like to inform Members that the priority for the Ministry of Education over the next few years with regard to university education is to upgrade NTI to a full university, the NTU, by 1991. In this way, we will be providing more university places. And until that is done, we will not proceed with the third university. We have to do this step by step in order to make sure that all the universities which we establish will be proper ones, universities which we will be proud of.

Just one comment, Sir, on the point made by Dr Lee Siew-Choh on tuition fee increases. I have spoken quite extensively on this matter last Friday. I do not intend to repeat myself. But I will tell him that if we find any correlation between the length of the loans and marriage and the ability of our graduates to bear children, then of course we will review the loans.

Dr Dixie Tan: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $1,648,365,000 for Head L ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $200,528,900 for Head L ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

The Chairman: Order. Moment of interruption.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1989/90, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Speaker: So be it.