ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITUREFOR 1960

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [1st Allotted day].

[Mr SPEAKER in the Chair]

3.02 p.m.

The Chairman: Will the Minister signify the recommendation of the Yang di-Pertuan Negara before we proceed with the consideration of these Supplementary Estimates?

Dr Goh Keng Swee: I so signify.

The Chairman: The Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960 of the State of Singapore as contained in Paper Cmd. 18 of 1960. The summary is at page 4.

On Head 34 - Ministry of Labour and Law - there is an amendment standing in the name of the Member for Joo Chiat in relation to the new subhead (Industrial Arbitration Court).

Mr C. H. Koh (Joo Chiat): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 34 be reduced by $10 in respect of the new subhead (Industrial Arbitration Court) therein.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I speak today in particular reference to the announcement of the Government a few days ago regarding the appointment of the President of the Industrial Arbitration Court. Mr Speaker, Sir, the word "Court", I take it, has been deliberately used in the designation of this Court under the Industrial Relations Ordinance. It was the expectation, I think, in the country that the first President would be a person of some legal experience and qualification. I do not make any personal reference to Dr Gamba except that he does not possess any legal qualification or legal experience. The work of this Industrial Arbitration Court, Mr Speaker, Sir, will draw the attention of a very large number of people of this country. It has been stressed time and time again inside this House and by both sides of the House that the economic situation of this country is a vital factor in the existence of the people of this country. Mr Speaker, Sir, there has been much attention focussed on the industrial relationship between employers and employees, and we have all been expecting that the Industrial Arbitration Court would be the final answer to the numerous strikes which have plagued this country in the past and, in so plaguing this country, have disturbed the equilibrium of the people whose main concern is the betterment of the economic situation of this country.

Sir, in the work of the Industrial Arbitration Court, there will no doubt be a great deal of material which does not involve the interpretation of law. Now, such material, Mr Speaker, Sir, would involve a great knowledge of the business of this country. Dr Gamba was the Professor of Economics in the University of Malaya and, as such, we naturally respect his knowledge of economics. But he has no experience of the day-to-day running of big business, and it is my humble submission that a certain amount of knowledge and experience of big business should be an essential qualification of the Judge sitting in the Industrial Arbitration Court. I fail to see how the new appointee can qualify in that respect.

As to the knowledge of law, Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not need to stress before you that it is no easy matter to interpret the law, and there is a great principle often quoted in the law courts in the administration of law in any country, and that is that justice must not only be done but must seem to be done. Mr Speaker, Sir, the appointment should have gone not only to a person of great legal experience, but should also have gone to a person whose politics cannot be questioned, or, rather, a person who should have no political leanings whatsoever. In the case of this new appointee, there may be some question as to his political leanings. Therefore, Mr Speaker, Sir, it may perturb employers, particularly when they appear before the Court, which should be absolutely impartial to both employee and employer.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to appear to be anticipating the work of this Court, but I hope, when a reply is given to this amendment, that some satisfactory public statement will be made to subdue whatever qualms that may have arisen with the announcement of the appointment.

The Minister for Labour and Law (Mr K. M. Byrne): Mr Speaker, Sir, if the Member for Joo Chiat had been present in this House at the time when the Industrial Relations Bill was debated, he would have been able to inform himself of the functions of this Court. On that occasion, Mr Speaker, Sir, I did take pains to inform Members of the House that the Industrial Arbitration Court is not a Court of Judicature. It is a Court that is concerned with the making of collective agreements between employers and unions, its functions are mainly legislative and not judicial. Mr Speaker, Sir, in any dispute where the parties fail to agree, the Minister can, under the provisions of the Ordinance, refer the dispute to the Industrial Arbitration Court. It will be the function of this Court to make the agreement for the parties when they cannot so agree. That is essentially a legislative process and not, strictly speaking, a judicial process. It is for that reason, Mr Speaker, Sir, that it is considered unnecessary that the holder of this appointment should hold accepted legal qualifications.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is provision for the appointment of a Registrar under the Ordinance. It is our intention to ensure that the person who fills that appointment will hold recognised legal qualifications so that he could assist the President whenever points of legal difficulty arise. There is also provision under the Ordinance for the State Advocate-General to be consulted by the Court when points of legal difficulty arise; and when he intervenes, members of the Bar have the right to appear before the Court. There are two sections of the Ordinance which provide that members of the Bar no longer have a right, once this Ordinance has been brought into force, to take part in the process of collective bargaining and members of the Bar also have no right to appear before this Court. I have pointed all that out before.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the question of the political leanings of Dr Charles Gamba who has been named, I can assure the Member for Joo Chiat that he is not a member of the People's Action Party. He is a person who has played a great part in labour economics in this country. He has appeared on various tribunals dealing with labour problems. As the Member for Joo Chiat must know, this appointment is under the law made by the Yang di-Pertuan Negara on the advice of the Prime Minister. And the Prime Minister, before he made this appointment, was very concerned that he did make the right choice. Before he made this appointment, he consulted various employers and sounded out their views, and they indicated that this appointment would be acceptable to them. In the same way, he consulted the Trades Union Congress and the Congress informed him that this appointment would be acceptable to them. So we are sure, Mr Speaker, Sir, that this Court will be in the hands of a capable and experienced person.

3.15 p.m.

The Chairman: Does the Member for Joo Chiat wish to take this to a vote?

Mr Koh: No, Mr Speaker.

The Chairman: Will the Member formally beg leave to withdraw his amendment?

Mr Koh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $43,070 for Head 34 ordered to stand part of the Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960.

Head 40 -

The Chairman: There is an amendment standing in the name of the Member for Joo Chiat in relation to the new subhead (National Day).

Mr Koh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 40 be reduced by $10 in respect of the new subhead (National Day).

Mr Speaker, Sir, this sum of $52,000 is being asked by the Government to pay for that famous occasion on 3rd June, when rain washed away all the marvellous preparations of the Government. Mr Speaker, Sir, we all saw what the procession was going to be like, although nature did not permit it to take place. In fact, it was a procession for the glorification of the People's Action Party. It was to have been a mile-long procession, or something like that.

The Deputy Prime Minister (Dr Toh Chin Chye): Two miles long.

Mr Koh: Two miles long. But whatever length it was supposed to be, I think about 95 to 98 per cent of the length was to be occupied by banners which say "People's Action Party". Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, the country is being asked to pay $52,000 for this act of glorification. It is monstrous, Mr Speaker, Sir, that this little country of ours should have to pay such a big sum of money. Even if it is not for the glorification of one political party, this luxury could be ill-afforded by a little country like ours. In future, I hope the Government is not going to let us in for any more heavy expenditure. We can remember our National Day. We can send up our prayers, one way or the other. Perhaps a sum of a few thousand dollars could justifiably be spent. But $52,000, Mr Speaker, is - I repeat - a luxury which this country can ill afford to spend.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture (Mr Lee Khoon Choy): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to enlighten the Member for Joo Chiat. The $52,000 was not spent entirely on the so-called mass parade to glorify the P.A.P. In fact, a good part of the expenditure went to the purchase of decorative material, much of which, through wear and tear, becomes useless after use on an occasion of this kind and had to be replaced. Moreover, the stock of equipment, especially in electrical fittings, with the Public Works Department, was inadequate for big festive occasions of this nature. It is intended to build a pool of such equipment over a period of time and to make it available to meet all requirements.

$52,000 is an insignificant figure when compared with expenditure for similar events by other countries. Of the $52,000, $41,320.80 was spent on decorations. We could not stop the rain. But if there had been no rain, the Member for Joo Chiat would have witnessed a performance by the people of Singapore to glorify the self-government that we have attained, not the P.A.P.

I am afraid the Member for Joo Chiat has under-estimated the intelligence of the people of Singapore, because all representatives of the people and all sections of communities were represented. Unfortunately, the procession did not take place.

Of the $52,000, only $2,403.91 was spent on the Prime Minister's luncheon which had to go on despite the rain. And the Yang di-Pertuan Negara's function at the Istana Negara, which was not interrupted by the rain, cost us $2,673.61. If the Member for Joo Chiat thought it was a good idea to celebrate our self-government, then he should not have brought up this unnecessary question.

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not questioning the necessity for celebrating National Day, but I wish to raise two questions of principle. Mr Speaker, you will notice that the National Day celebrations started on 3rd June and ended on 6th June, 1960. When the People's Action Party came into power, they framed a Budget which they presented to this Assembly; but apparently they forgot this particular item in their Budget. Having forgotten it, Sir - perhaps they were hard pressed in framing that Budget, and I accept what the Minister for Finance has said, that they had only a few months in between the framing of the Budget and the actual expenditure of this money - they now come to this House to seek its approval to obtain this money which they had spent.

Another point you will observe, Mr Speaker, is that this sum has been advanced out of the Contingencies Fund. You may remember, Mr Speaker, that when it was queried in the House as to how the Contingencies Fund would be used, if I remember rightly, Mr Speaker, the impression I got was that it would only be used on occasions when the Government had to spend money in respect of matters which they could not have foreseen before the actual time of expenditure. This expenditure is a matter which I am sure the People's Action Party foresaw - they not only foresaw it, but they knew it must happen. Therefore, could I suggest to the Minister for Finance that in future an item like this be covered in the Budget?

Dr Goh Keng Swee: I certainly welcome the suggestion of the Member for Farrer Park, but a word of explanation may be necessary as to why we adopted the procedure that we did. Members will know that this is the first occasion that celebrations on this scale were attempted by the present Government, and it was not possible to budget in sufficient detail the cost for all the various activities in advance. For instance, in the course of preparation, it was the experience of the Government that more and more associations, groups of people, and cultural bodies volunteered to join in the festivities. Accordingly, it was felt that the method of budgeting in advance would be a difficult procedure to comply with. But with the experience that we have gained, I think it should be possible to budget within fairly close limits for future occasions of this sort.

The Chairman: I take it that the Member for Joo Chiat wishes to put his amendment to the vote?

Mr Koh: Yes, Sir.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived.

The sum of $52,000 for Head 40 ordered to stand part of the Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960.

Head 46 -

The Chairman: No notice of amendment has been received in respect thereof.

The sum of $117,170 for Head 46 ordered to stand part of the Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960.

Question, "That the sum of $212,240 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Third Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960 contained in Paper Cmd. 18 of 1960", put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported.

The Chairman: Fourth Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960 (Paper Cmd. 19 of 1960).

The summary is at page 4.

Head D 22 -

The Chairman: There is an amendment standing in the name of the Member for Joo Chiat in relation to subhead 3.

Mr Koh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to proceed with this amendment.

[That the sum to be allocated for Head D 22 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3.]

The sum of $3,156,880 for Head D 22 ordered to stand part of the Fourth Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960.

Head D 48 -

The Chairman: There is an amendment standing in the name of the Member for Joo Chiat in relation to item(4) of subhead 6.

3.30 p.m.

Mr Koh: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the explanation to this Head, the Government has said that this is in order to implement Government's policy of reorganisation of Ministries and integration of the City Council and Rural District Councils into Government -

The Chairman: I take it that the Member is moving?

Mr Koh: I beg your pardon. Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head D 48 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (4) of subhead 6 therein.

Mr Speaker, Sir, since the Government took office, and particularly in the second half of the Government last year, there have been a good many changes and house removals of Government offices. I question whether these removals were, in fact, necessary. Of course, if the costs of such removals were not the high sum of $50,000, one might be a little bit patient. But when there is such a big sum to play "general post" within the Government, one becomes a bit perturbed. The government of this country has been evolved through decades, and there have been many commissions of inquiries into the working and the allocation of work and the placings of the various Government offices. In one foul stroke, this new Government of ours has started changing things all round, quite apart from the headaches the members of the public have when they want to go to any particular department. We find that there has not been any radical improvement. Where do all these changes lead us to? It is so easy for a new broom to say, "Well, I want to sweep clean, and I want to change everything about." Well, do so by all means, but not, Mr Speaker, Sir, I contend, at the costly expense of $50,000.

The Minister for National Development (Mr Tan Kia Gan): Mr Speaker, Sir, in order to implement the Government's declared policy of integrating the City Council and the Rural Board with the Government Ministries, and also the need to organise the Ministries themselves, and where possible group the various departments under one Ministry together in one building, it was necessary to carry out a programme of reallocation of office accommodation for various Government Ministries and departments. For the information of the Member for Joo Chiat, the major departmental re-groupings and reorganisation are as follows: The Land Office and the Rural Board were moved from the Upper Pickering Street office to the ground-floor of City Hall, the Land Office being a land-user department. The Registry of Titles and the Registry of Deeds have been moved to the ground-floor of the City Hall, whilst the Survey Department will move there shortly. These are also land-user departments. The Treasury, the Establishment Office, the Audit Office and the Accountant-General's Office have been re-grouped together with the Division of Commerce and Industry in Fullerton Building. This enables the departments under the Ministry of Home Affairs, including the Immigrant department, the Registry of Citizenship, the Registry of Persons and the Registry of Births and Deaths to be re-grouped in Empress Place.

The City Engineer's Department and the City Chief Architect's Department were earlier regrouped together with the Public Works Department. The City Hawkers' and Markets' Department are to be re-grouped under arrangements by the Ministry of Health.

Mr Speaker, the principle of integration was announced in the policy speech by the Yang di-Pertuan Negara at the beginning of this Government's term of office. At that time, there was no appreciable opposition to integration, reallocation of offices, and removal, as the Member for Joo Chiat has said, from one place to another. Since there was no appreciable opposition, it is assumed that the principle of integration has been accepted as the logical process by which we can achieve an efficient and a streamlined administration.

As for actual cost, this is in fact negligible, but includes such items as labour, transport, adjustment of office needs and providing facilities for the public and so on. Mr Speaker, the Saving from the public from now onwards, both in time and in transportation, will be immeasurably grater. For instance, it is more convenient for the public, if they have to go to several departments in one Ministry, that they have only to go to one building where business can be cleared possibly with one visit. Similarly, the advantages of regrouping, as for example, by having land-user departments together, will also cut down administrative procedure and costs, and show a considerable financial saving. An expenditure of some tens of thousands of dollars weighed against public time and convenience and the administrative efficiency can, therefore, only be regarded as an essential investment.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived.

The sum of $50,000 for Head D48 ordered to stand part of the Fourth Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960.

The Chairman: Heads of expenditure undisposed of. They appear in the Summary at page 4 of the Paper other than Heads D.22 and D.48. I propose to take those heads of expenditure* en bloc.

• Following are the heads of expenditure:- Head Title $ D.34 Labour and Law 47,500 D.45 Police 28,000 D.46 Prisons 188,200 D.49 Colonial Development and 6,000 Welfare Schemes

Question, "That the sums stated for the heads stated in the summary of totals contained in Paper Cmd. 19 of 1960 other than for Heads D.22 and D.48 already disposed of stand part of the fourth Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960", put, and agreed to.

Question, "That the sum of $3,476,580 shall be supplied to the Government under the heads of expenditure for the public services shown in the Fourth Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for 1960 contained in Paper Cmd. 19 of 1960", put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the chair of the committee and took the Chair of the Assembly.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply have come to certain resolutions.

Resolution read.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Assembly doth agree with the Committee on the said resolutions.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolutions accordingly agreed to.