YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1972, TO 31ST MARCH, 1973

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [1st Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

2.53 p.m.

The Chairman: Estimates of Expenditure of Singapore for the financial year 1st April 1972, to 31st March, 1973, contained in Paper Cmd. 3 of 1972. 1 shall take the total for each head of expenditure as it appears in the last column of the Abstract of Estimated Expenditure on pages 49 and 50 of the Paper.

I shall deal first with the heads of expenditure in respect of which amendments stand on the Order Paper Supplement.

Head 0104 -

Mr N. Govindasamy (Telok Blangah): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0104 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2010.

Sir, this amendment is moved to solicit information. A vote of $600 was set aside for the last financial year 197 1-72 for the rental of a photo-copying machine. I would like to know how much of this vote was actually spent during that financial year.

Sir, the Government is advocating mechanisation in our various departments. Has the department of Judicature a photo-copying machine or not? If not, would it not be cheaper to purchase one rather than renting a photo-copying machine at the cost of $600 a year?

The Minister for Law and National Development (Mr E. W. Barker): Mr Speaker, Sir, based on the demand for copies of exhibits, affidavits, wills, and other legal documents, from legal firms and litigants during 1971, it is considered economical for the present to hire a photo-copying machine than to purchase one. Besides, the company which is presently renting out this machine to the Judiciary does not sell this machine which apparently has been found to produce better quality copies and in less time. The Member for Telok Blangah will appreciate that a better quality reproduction of documents is required for use in our courts.

Copies of exhibits, affidavits, wills, and other legal documents supplied to legal firms and litigants, were supplied at 30 cents each. The cost was about 15 cents per copy, and so there was a net profit of 15 cents per copy. In 1971, a total sum of $11,674.50 was received as revenue for making copies of documents. Expenditure on rental, plus the cost of paper and copying charges, amounted to $6,312.58; leaving a net profit of $5,361.92 from the rental of this machine for 1971.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the Minister's explanation and the fact that some money was made out of this machine, I beg leave to my other point, that is, the extent of withdraw,

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $2,405,580 for Head 0104 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0108 -

Mr Ng Kah Ting (Punggol): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0108 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2001.

Sir, this item concerns accidents involving Government vehicles. I would be grateful if the Minister for Law and National Development would care to indicate the number of vehicles involved in accidents in the last financial year, the cost of damage to these vehicles, which departments are involved, and whether action has been taken against those found negligent, and what is the extent of injuries to persons, if any.

3.00 p.m.

Mr Barker: Mr Speaker, Sir, altogether 192 claims in respect of accidents involving Government vehicles were received during the last financial year. Of these, the Ministry of Defence was concerned in 97 cases and the total amount paid out was $36,588.98. Second, came the Public Health Department with 43 cases, and the amount paid was $20,742.18. Third on the list was the Police, with 20 cases involving $6,552.19. There were others like the General Post Office, Hospitals, Prisons Department, Civil Aviation Department, and the Customs and Excise Department. I do not think I should bother the House with the details but, in all, the number of cases was 180 and the total sum paid out was about $70,000.

There are some outstanding claims, and the estimated amounts involved are as follows: Public Health Department, 4, about $2,800; Ministry of Defence, 7, about $13,000; Police Department, I, about $3,000; making a total of about 12 cases outstanding.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister has not replied to my other point, that is, the extent of injuries to persons.

In respect of claims, I note that there were 97 cases involving vehicles from the Ministry of Defence, 43 from the Public Health Department, and 20 from the Police. The total number is less than 200. But last year this House had occasion to hear Members' views that drivers of Government vehicles should take more care on the roads. Much has been done to prevent accidents, by way of road safety campaigns as well as industrial safety campaigns. Therefore, to this extent, I would like to inquire whether the Ministries or departments concerned would seriously take note of the number of cases involving them, because to my mind the figure is still quite high.

Mr Barker: Sir, I am afraid I do not have particulars of personal injuries, which the Member has asked for in respect of these cases. As for his comments on the standard of driving and care, there are so many departments concerned that I would not wish to add further to what he has remarked.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0108 be reduced by $10 in respect of sub- head 2006.

Sir, I am seeking information similar to what I sought just now. Since this item concerns legal fees, claims and Costs for all departments, will the Minister concerned inform this House as to the number of claims and costs awarded, the departments involved, and what action has been taken against those found guilty, wholly or partially?

Mr Barker: Sir, all the legal fees, claims and costs relate to cases against Government departments, that is to say, claims for damages in respect of tort and for breach of contract. These sums are payable when the court decides that Government is liable or that there is a settlement where we admit liability. These sums would include fees for claimants' solicitors and the disbursements incurred in making the claims.

The names of the departments involved and the amounts paid for the last financial year are as follows. Again, I am sure the Member does not want details in respect of every department, but I will read them out if he wants.

The Ministry of Defence again takes the lead, with about $50,000 paid out. Second, Police, for which $15,200 was paid out. Strangely enough, the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau is third on the list, with $11,658.50 paid out. The rest consists of small amounts each, about $2,000 or less. The Public Works Department, $2,230; Prisons, $2,900; the Ministry of National Development, $2,204; Ministry of Foreign Affairs, $437, and the Attorney-General's Chambers, $184. The total expenditure as at 15th March, 1972, was $87,680.83.

There are 11 suits outstanding. I think the Member knows that litigation in court takes time. Nine suits are against the Ministry of Defence, and two against the Public Works Department. The estimated total claims exceed $300,000 for these 11 suits which are awaiting trial in the Supreme Court. This estimated figure for claims is based on cases in which legal proceedings have been instituted and dates have been fixed for trial. Other claims have not been included because they have not been made, and it is not possible to ascertain with any degree of certainty what the claims will be and when will they be made.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I am grateful to the Minister for his detailed reply. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $996,350 for Head 0108 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0201 -

Mr P. Govindaswamy (Anson): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0201 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Sir, our Prime Minister's pay has remained stagnant for the past two years. Whether or not "stagnant" is the proper word to use, I do not know. His salary has remained at $3,500 a month, while other Cabinet Ministers have been drawing a salary of $4,500 a month each.

In the whole of Asia, our Prime Minister is the only Prime Minister to draw a salary less than his Ministers. When the Prime Minister first announced an increase of pay for his Ministers, he had reason not to increase his own salary. However, I feel that the time has come for me to speak on this issue. Therefore, I would request all my colleagues in this House to review this matter in view of the fact that our country is doing well. it is high time we proposed legislation to raise the Prime Minister's salary at least $10 higher than a Minister's salary.

The Minister of State, Prime Minister's Office (Tuan Haji Ya'acob Bin Mohamed): (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer the Member for Anson to the Prime Minister's Statement on Ministers' salaries and allowances for Members of Parliament as contained in Hansard, Volume 30, No. I, col. 8, dated 7th May, 1970, at paragraph 5, and I quote:

(In English) `I am not increasing my own salary of $3,500 a month. My salary will stay as it is until the end of 1972, by which time Singapore should have overcome the economic problems caused by the rundown in British military expenditure, provided we all work hard for higher and higher productivity and more and more industries.'

(In Malay) I would also like to refer to the Government's recommendation to the Wages Council that adjustments and rationalisation of wages and bonuses should be taken in two steps, one in 1972 and another in 1973. This is contained in the Prime Minister's address to the N.T.U.C. Delegates Conference on 5th March, 1972.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: It is true that the Prime Minister did say that he did not want a rise in salary. But now every worker in the public service is getting one month's extra salary as allowance. What is the reason for that? It is because the country is improving and getting more prosperous. The Minister for Finance has already estimated that there will be a surplus. Therefore, although it is most probable that the Prime Minister does not want a raise, can we not take some action in this House to increase his pay to something more than a Minister's salary, at least by $10 more?

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I feel we are very fortunate to have a Prime Minister who very rigidly upholds the declaration he made two years ago, i.e., that he would not seek to increase his salary until the end of 1972. We are proud that our Prime Minister is a leader with a conviction not to smile unless the people themselves smile first.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

3.15 p.m.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0201 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1041*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.)

Sir, during the Budget debate last year, my colleagues, the Members for Mountbatten and Telok Blangah, expressed their views on this important set-up, the Anti-Pollution Unit, within the Prime Minister's portfolio. Whilst their observations are noteworthy, I would like to seek further elucidation from the Minister of State, Prime Minister's Office, on the scope, function, and future planning of this very important Unit.

Sir, the Minister of Defence, who was speaking for the Prime Minister during the Budget session last year, disclosed that this Unit, comprising a team of three scientists of very high calibre, exists in the Public Works Department. I quote from Hansard dated 18th March, 1971, Vol. 30, No. 12, col. 790:

`... - all three of them - have gone abroad to study air pollution problems; one to Australia, the second to America, and the third to Europe.'

He also mentioned that their functions were not those of an enforcement nature but purely to study the problems and to establish monitoring stations, make recommendations to the Prime Minister on matters of policy, including legislation, and advise on measures that suit our situation best. In this respect, perhaps the Minister of State would care to enlighten this House as to whether any recommendations from this top calibre, high-powered team of scientists have been submitted to the Prime Minister. As a consequence, will any measures be taken by this Unit, on a long-term basis, to ensure that our City state will not be faced with the hazards of pollution? Sir, it is indeed highly commendable that Singapore is tackling this pollution problem seriously and at a much earlier stage than many other developed countries like the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Japan, which only recently began to grapple with this problem, long after it has become an environmental hazard.

Another minor observation, if I may hasten to add, is that, although this Unit has been charged with a very high responsibility, its entire staffing position, ranging from the Head of the Unit right down to the office boy comes to a total strength of only 23 persons. In other words, this Unit appears rather small to be able to co-ordinate its activities against air pollution, pollution of water-ways, etc.

I, therefore, hope that the Minister of State will be good enough to throw some light on the measures which are being taken or will be taken to ensure that Singapore will be pollution free.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker. Sir, despite the anti-pollution measures that have been taken in Singapore, there is still a great deal of noise, smoke and pollution of water at present. It is a common sight to see antiquated-looking buses belching smoke to envelope passers-by and other vehicles travelling along their side. It is high time the Anti-Pollution Unit paid greater attention to these lumbering monsters emitting poisonous fumes into our atmosphere.

During pasar malam nights and at hawker sites in various parts of the island, the generators that supply electricity are not only noisy but they also emit a lot of fumes. Record shops and stalls operating at pasar malam sites too seem to derive pleasure in creating noise. They are allowed to blare out music from their records at a deafening pitch. It is time legislation was introduced to compel record shops to install and equip soundproof rooms within their premises. The Hawkers' Department should note this, in particular. However, ample warning should be given to those offenders before taking any action.

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): Sir, I would like to explain to the Members concerned that the main concern of the Anti-Pollution Unit is air pollution. The other matter of air pollution comes under the charge of the Registrar of Vehicles, and water pollution is the responsibility of the Public Utilities Board. For the time being, this Unit is solely concerned with air pollution. In this respect, the Unit monitors the air for the various air pollutants in different parts of Singapore, and upon detection carries out enforcement measures under the Clean Air Act. The Unit also advises the various Government agencies, such as the Jurong Tower Corporation, the Planning Department and the Economic Development Board, on various aspects of pollution problems and also acts as a co-ordinating body for all such activities.

The Minister for Finance in his recent Budget speech has indicated that Government will allow accelerated depreciation over three years on capital investment in approved anti-pollution devices. This, together with the new tax relief measures, will cost the Government a total loss of revenue of approximately $3.5 million. This is in the interest of the people of Singapore. This should be an incentive to industrialists to act now by installing anti-pollution devices and so take advantage of this opportunity.

This Unit is taking every effort to ensure that the air around us is pollution free, so that our people can lead a healthy life wherever they may live. I assure Members that our policy is to prevent rather than cure.

On the question of noise pollution raised by the Member for Anson, I think that the Minister for Law and National Development will answer that point because it involves his Ministry, and is outside the jurisdiction of the Anti-Pollution Unit.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, the Minister of State has just explained that the Antipollution Unit is primarily concerned with air pollution and that queries on other forms of pollution such as noise, should be referred to the appropriate authority. But I think that this Unit should not confine itself to air pollution. For the moment, it may confine itself to air pollution, but as I have mentioned just now, it should co-ordinate its activities with other departments though the Minister of State has also pointed out that the Unit acts as a co-ordinating body for such activities. What I would like to point out are the important functions this Unit will be performing and is now performing. With a few officials - the Head of the Unit, a couple of engineers and scientists - I doubt that much can be done for the present. Even with the loss of Government revenue through encouraging industries to install anti-pollution devices or equipment to reduce air pollution, I would say that the price Government is paying for is well worth it because, in the long run, what little is saved at the moment, will save us a much higher price later on. In this respect, will the Minister of State see to it that more trained officers are recruited into this Unit?

The Minister of State has also failed to answer my point with regard to the three scientists who were sent overseas- one to Australia, one to America and another to Europe and of whom the Minister of Defence mentioned as a high-calibre team. I suppose these three specialists must have returned with bagfuls of ideas on the various measures of countering pollution. Will the Minister of State care to elaborate on this?

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): As I said just now, Mr Speaker, Sir, this Anti-Pollution Unit was recently established. The other functions of pollution control are under the charge of the other departments which come under different authorities. However, I wish to assure the Member that although the number of officers in this Anti-Pollution Unit is small, they are officers capable enough to ensure that Singapore will be free from air pollution and, under the control of the officers whom we have sent abroad, I think this Unit is sufficiently able to discharge its function.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I do not have the slightest doubt that the officers who were sent abroad are capable. What I said was that this Unit should have more such officers. But since this House has the assurance of the Minister of State that measures will taken to ensure that Singapore will be pollution free, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

3.30 p.m.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0201 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101.

Very recently, school children were asked about their electoral districts. Unfortunately, many of them did not know the change in electoral districts. Therefore, may I suggest that more publicity be given through the medium of the press, radio and television of the changes in electoral boundaries and districts in Singapore?

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, most of the local newspapers have given adequate coverage on the Report of the Electoral Boundaries Delineation Committee, 1971. Some of them not only gave details of the electoral divisions affected, but also reproduced maps showing the newly marked boundaries. Television and Radio also reported fully on these changes.

In addition to the Report, descriptions of all the 65 electoral boundaries were re-gazetted. Maps were also printed. The Report and the Gazette on the descriptions of the 65 electoral divisions are obtainable from the Government Publications Bureau, Fullerton Building, at the cost of $5 and $4 per copy respectively. The boundaries of the 65 electoral divisions are printed on 26 maps, and each of these maps costs $5, and can be purchased from the Survey Department, National Development Building, Maxwell Road.

Furthermore, the Elections Department has already published the Registers of Electors for the 65 electoral divisions, and these have been displayed to members of the public from 20th December, 1971, to 3rd January, 1972. This was announced to the people over the radio, television and the press.

Any member of the public can get further clarification on the newly delineated electoral boundaries and related matters from the Registration Officer, Elections Department, City Hall, ground floor, St. Andrews Road (Coleman Street entrance).

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister of State for his explanation. What he said is quite true. But the publication of these electoral registers is only in English. Not everyone in Singapore can read English. There are the Malay, Chinese and Tamil educated people. He has to consider about that. We do not want to be blamed for not properly bringing the attention of the public to the changes in the various electoral divisions. It is our duty to inform the people thoroughly.

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, we have community centres in each constituency and through them we have displayed for a period of more than one month, the electoral registers and asking members of the public to inspect their names. So we cannot be blamed. We have informed them through the television, radio and the press. Also, through the Citizens' Consultative Committees, we have asked the people to inspect their names in the electoral registers.

Members of the public should take the initiative to find out under what constituency they come under. If they fail to turn up at the centre we are not to be blamed. We have provided them with all the facilities.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: (In Malay): But members of the Citizens' Consultative Committee do not visit the electorate, which is not their work. It is the responsibility of the Government to sufficiently inform members of the public of the new electoral divisions. We cannot make use of the C.C.C. We must take our own action; that is our job. We cannot pass the buck on to other people. We do not know whether the C.C.C, have discharged their duties or not. Therefore, the Minister of State must investigate to see how best we can disseminate the news to the people.

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): As I have said earlier on, Sir, those who wish to know about any changes to their constituency can get in touch with the Registration Officer of the Elections Department, City Hall.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: I do not want to pursue this matter, and therefore I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ng Yeow Chong (Mountbatten): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0201 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3013.

In an industrialised country, air pollution is the most serious of all forms of environmental pollution. This is no exception to Singapore. Therefore, we must take steps in advance to prepare for such an eventuality and to prevent air pollution from getting worse.

The House is now asked to approve a vote of $50,000 for the purchase of equipment for the measurement of air pollution. I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister of State to explain to the House the uses of this equipment and its specific purposes. Is it to be used to combat industrial pollution, or to combat pollution caused by vehicles, or for other purposes?

Tuan Haji Ya'acob: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, six types of equipment are likely to be purchased. The first type of equipment, the Hydrocarbon Analyser, is used for measuring the presence of hydrocarbons, and the second type, the Auto-analyser, is used for measuring oxide of nitrogen. These two types of equipment will be used to monitor the ambient air in the urban area. Two other additional equipments will be used to measure dust concentration in and around manufacturing premises having dust pollution problems. The fifth equipment will be used for general monitoring and identification of particular sources of pollution, and the sixth equipment will be used in the laboratory for identification and measurement of the pollutants that have been sampled.

Mr Ng Yeow Chong: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $4,120,230 for Head 0201 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0301 -

Mr J. F. Conceicao (Katong): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1003.

Sir, the Ministry of Science and Technology has over the past two years or so had its responsibilities increased. Until recently, its staff has undergone some strain. Through my membership of a few committees under the Ministry's purview, I have personally noticed this quite clearly. In the next several months the work of the Ministry will be intensified further with:

(a) further work of metrication;

(b) increased responsibility over the construction, staffing and equipping of the Science Centre in Jurong; and

(c) the possibility of the setting up of the Centre for Applied Research.

In view of this pressure as well as possibilities of expansion, I feel that making a Deputy Secretary as the Chief Executive Officer of the Ministry, instead of a Principal Assistant Secretary, is overdue. I hope that this post, together with the other vacancies, will be filled as soon as possible, and that a three-month delay implied by the Vote is all the delay that will be tolerated.

Finally, I wonder whether the Minstrel would, in respect of the proposed Centre for Applied Research, care to expatiate on the brief reference made on this Centre by the Minister for Finance in his Budget address.

3.45 p.m.

The Minister for Science and Technology (Dr Toh Chin Chye): Mr Speaker, Sir, I indicated last year that I would appeal to the Ministry of Finance for a Deputy Secretary as and when the volume of work in my Ministry grows. Members can now see for this year that there is provision for such a post. However, the provision is only for nine months as it is the practice of Treasury to allocate only nine months' salary for a new post. Apparently, they spend the remaining three months looking for a suitable person. I do certainly hope that the Establishment Division of the Ministry of Finance will be able to appoint someone competent enough to fill the post of Deputy Secretary in my Ministry.

The post of Principal Assistant Secretary continues to remain in my Ministry. Members would perhaps like to know that it is not very easy to get people who are versed in administration as well as in science and technology to occupy this post, because at the moment people who are so qualified prefer to obtain a similar job outside the public sector where it is more convenient and better paid. Because of this competition which the Government is faced with, there may be some delay before we can find a suitable person.

I have no objection to replying to the Member for Katong on the Centre for Applied Research. As Singapore's industrialisation and economic growth continue to progress, it has become obvious that multifarious problems are popping up to confront the Government, statutory bodies, and the private sector. It is true that civil servants, both in the Government and statutory bodies, are very much pre-occupied with routine matters of administration and day-to-day operations of their departments to apply their minds to work out solutions to problems confronting them, or even to sit down and identify the problems which they may have to deal with in executing any particular policy. This is particularly so of the public sector, and generally so of the private sector, where the multi-national companies have invested heavily in Singapore.

For this reason, my Ministry commissioned the Stanford Research Institute last year to do a study on the setting up of a Centre for Applied Research in Singapore. Their report suggests that such a Centre should be established as a private company limited by guarantee, and will have no shareholders, in order to maintain confidentiality of research reports and in order that the company can call itself a non-profit making institution so that it will not have to pay income tax to the Government. It will also have no dividends to pay out. But the ultimate objective of the company will be to sustain the costs of the research efforts that it puts in. The Ministry of Finance has promised a sum of money to initiate operations for the setting up of the Centre for Applied Research.

The areas of research which the Centre will initially embark upon will be in market research, particularly for export products, distribution and transportation analyses (both national and international), management information and control systems and procedures, corporate strategy, long-range planning assistance, economic analysis of growth potential in relation to changing economic, political and technical environment in this region and throughout the world, industrial feasibility survey, including cost-profit projections for specific products, processes, and industrial undertakings, industrial engineering, technical problems peculiar to our tropical environment, such as corrosion control or insulation problems, product innovation and adaptation to meet local and other market requirements, and increasing total value added in manufacture. Subsequently, when the Centre has begun its initial operations, it will embark upon more technical studies which are confronted in the engineering and applied sciences.

The problem which we are now confronted with is manpower. It is not the purpose of the Centre to recruit very highly qualified and very expensive personnel to form a nucleus for this Centre. But it will try to utilize whatever expertise there is available in Singapore, particularly in our institutions of higher learning. Some of the contract work can be farmed out to such experts or they can be brought in as consultants. The key person, who will be the manager of the Centre, is now being sought, and when appointed, the company will be launched as a non-profit making institution.

At the moment, my Ministry is engaged in drawing up the Articles of Association and Memorandum for the company. When this is done, we hope to get the Centre going sometime in 1972.

Mr Conceicao: Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply, and I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3003.

Since the metre, as a unit of measurement, has been adopted in Singapore in stages, may I know what steps are being taken to ensure that shopkeepers do not make use of this conversion as an excuse for profiteering? The Hawkers' Department should ensure that all old methods of weighing should be replaced with reliable ones and which do not lend to tampering by hawkers in markets. At present, because of the various forms of measure used by the hawkers, the poorer sections of the community are being cheated by unscrupulous hawkers. But I am not accusing every hawker, but only the unscrupulous ones. There are some shopkeepers who are very honest.

Dr Toh Chin Chye: Mr Speaker, Sir, metrication has not yet been extended to hawkers; so the Member for Anson can be rest assured that the problem has not arisen. There is the Weights and Measures Division in the Department of Trade, which regularly inspects the measures used by hawkers. In the distant future, when hawkers begin to metricate, he can be assured that the Division will be very active in inspecting the balances, or whatever measures the hawkers will use.

It is true that the Chambers of Commerce had taken the initiative to ask textile shopkeepers to sell currently by the metre instead of by the yard. This began in March. But not all shops are following this new practice, but we expect that over a period of time even the smaller shops will gradually follow suit.

In order to prevent shopkeepers from profiteering on this change, members of the Metrication Board and the Consumers' Association of Singapore have been visiting textile shops to watch the progress of metrication. To-date, the report that I have got so far is that there have been no serious complaint of cheating. In fact, there are some textile firms selling by the metre, but are charging rates at the old measure, i.e, by the yard. In other words, they are prepared to round off the old measures into metric, so that the consumer, in fact, stands to gain rather than lose. In view of this, the Metrication Board intends to publicise those shops which are charging at the old rates but measuring out with the metre rule instead of the yard rule.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Sir, I am very glad to hear that. I do not think the hawkers will not be using the metric system of measurement in future. Does the Minister for Science and Technology know that before hawkers begin to metricate, we have to make sure that they do not use this system of measurement to cheat. For example, textile shops have started to metricate, and some have been charging their customers wrongly. Therefore, we must very carefully see that when we go metric the shopkeepers and hawkers do not cheat the poor people, who form the majority of consumers. Therefore, I feel that the Minister must take severe action against unscrupulous retailers in the future when Singapore has fully gone metric.

But in view of the detailed explanation, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $596,980 for Head 0301 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0401 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1004.

Sir, the Ministry of Defence has been allocated a provision of about $442 million. This takes first place in the national expenditure. This is 38.9 per cent of our total expenditure; 16.5 per cent more than the estimate for last year. I understand that this increased expenditure is necessary to meet the effects of the final rundown of British military expenditure and that our Government now has to shoulder the entire responsibility for our internal security. In view of this, we have to increase our expenditure to build up our own armed forces. At the same time, we have to examine whether expected and desirable results can be achieved.

Next, I touch on the problem of National Service. The National Service Act has been in force for the last few years. With the support of the people and the efficient enforcement of the law, it has achieved certain desirable results. Our citizens now realise that as an independent nation, we must have our own defence forces to safeguard our national and territorial rights. They have also realised that national service has brought about many benefits to our country. For example, our youths can be mobilised for training to become the stalwarts of our defence forces. National service also enhances the quality and discipline of our youths, and thus promotes a better organisation of our society.

4.00 p.m.

Although we have achieved much from national service, there are certain shortcomings. They are, however, technical in nature. In other words, they relate to the training courses. If the officers in charge of training can remedy these faults, then the position will be all right. The training courses do not inculcate a sense of national identity and consciousness in our national servicemen. This is a very important factor. We are a very young nation. Therefore, in the course of our nation building, we have to instil a sense of national identity in our young people. They should be inculcated with a sense of national consciousness and patriotism so that our national servicemen will love our country. Only then, will they identify themselves with the country and be given an opportunity to serve. In order to achieve that objective, the Ministry of Defence should strengthen its educational and cultural division. More cultural and educational officers should be employed to promote national consciousness among our national servicemen youths.

I have also received complaints from our national servicemen. Having reached national service age, they registered themselves with the Manpower Division, and underwent medical examination. But some of these youths have not as yet been enlisted in the army. What is the reason for the delay? They are very willing to serve their country, and we should help them to realise their aspirations.

There is another problem. These youths have to undergo national service training. However, in looking for jobs they encounter certain difficulties because the Government has decided that unless they receive a certificate for employment from the Manpower Division, they cannot look for a job in either the private or public sector. Therefore, I urge the Minister to take note of this situation and to take appropriate measures to remedy such shortcomings.

The Minister of Defence (Dr Goh Keng Swee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree very much with what the Member has said, particularly the need to have soldiers who are loyal, patriotic and conscious of their national identity. However, this business of inculcating national consciousness is not something that can be done only in the Singapore Armed Forces during the period of national service. If a boy of 18 goes into the army without knowing what country he belongs to, and has no loyalty to Singapore, then I say that our educational system has failed badly and that his parents do not know how to look after him. However, within the army we do try to give our youths further education on this line. But this is something you cannot overdo, because after all in the army they are to be trained as soldiers and not as patriots, and certainly not in political matters.

As regards educational and cultural services in the Armed Forces, the Member has got a point there. In fact, I am looking for a person with sufficient knowledge and experience to direct or promote cultural shows. I have asked Radio and T.V. Singapore whether they can send such a person to my Ministry, but they have said that they need all the producers they can lay their hands on. They have lost a good number of producers to the private sector. If anybody, either within or outside the House, knows of a good producer, please recommend him to me. We do want to run cultural and educational shows in the battalion camps at night, because this is a good way of putting across the proper message by subtle means.

Now, the waiting period after medical examination. A boy is put through a medical examination when he is l7-X years old. Therefore, he will not be called into the army for another six to 18 months. This period of waiting is unavoidable. However, once he passes his 19th birthday and has not yet been called up for full-time national service, he is not liable for a full-time national service. In such circumstances, the Manpower Base will give him a certificate to say that he is not liable for full-time national service. Therefore, there is no difficulty about his getting a job.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): I thank the Minister for his detailed explanation. I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin (Jalan Kayu): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1011.

Sir, this is a new vote providing for a Principal Systems Analyst. Under the same Head, I also notice that provision is being made for a number of other Systems Analysts and Programmers. This would suggest that the Ministry is going into computerisation in a fairly big way.

I would like to take this opportunity of seeking information on the computerisation programme embarked upon by the Ministry. In particular, I should appreciate it if the Minister could inform the House of the total costs involved in the purchase of computers, and the extent to which computerisation will apply to the overall administration in MINDEF, and the possible effects this will have on the future staffing position in the Ministry of Defence.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Sir, actually the Ministry of Defence has been using computers since 1968, when we leased a computer from the Central Provident Fund at an annual rent of $100,000. Since the middle of last year we have stopped using the C.P.F, computer, and are now using computers belonging to the Electronic Data Processing Unit in the Ministry of Finance. They have two computers and they can spare some of their time for us.

As regards the sort of work that is being computerised, the following subjects are being computerised. First, the payrolls of officers but not those of other ranks. I am not quite sure of the reason why. Officers are paid by cheques and the other ranks are paid by cash; we have not got down to computerising the latter, and I am not quite sure of the reason.

Next, we need various data regarding manpower. We want to know, for instance, who should be registered in any one year. We get that information from the identity cards, and therefore nobody can escape because his name is in when he applies for an identity card at the age of 12. So we know that 4X years later he should register for the first time.

Then, we computerise other data on manpower, for instance, how many soldiers are in each unit and against which establishment. This is being reviewed monthly and quarterly at various levels of detail and completeness.

Then, of course, the Member is aware that the computer is an ideal system for keeping checks on inventories. Our Logistics Division makes considerable use of the computer in working out catalogues, that is, giving all the components and code numbers, in maintaining stock level of the hundreds and thousands of items which they have in their bases. This work is done by the computer.

Regarding the personnel employed in this work, they were previously listed in the military establishment. There were actually some 83 military posts concerned with producing the data. Unfortunately, a good number of these military personnel were national servicemen who, by the time they knew something about their work, were due to leave the army. The work was, therefore, not done very satisfactorily. We have decided that we had better engage full-time and permanent civilian staff to take over the work, so that they can accumulate the experience and expertise and get better year by year. In fact, this is what we have done and we will replace these 83 military posts with 34 civilian posts, including four office boys.

With regard to the cost of the system, as I have said, we are not buying computers of our own. We are using Government computers. The pay of staff comes to $232,980 - it is in the budget- as compared with more than $671,000 previously. The maintenance of computers is estimated at $132,000 as against $296,710 previously.

I think this gives the Member all the information he has asked for.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin: Mr Speaker, Sir,. I have raised this matter with a view to ascertaining from the particular Ministry concerned whether from their own experience they feel that computerisation in the long run is going to result in greater efficiency, and perhaps will enable us to cut down on the number of staff in the civil service, in view of the acute shortage of manpower in Singapore today. Therefore, I would like the Minister to inform the House whether, in his opinion and from his own personal experience in the Ministry of Defence, the computerisation introduced so far has resulted in greater efficiency and with a smaller number of employees doing the same job.

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would think that that is so, if it is a question of collecting data. The computer saves a lot of manpower. But, of course, the computer is no substitute for soldiers. We still need that number of soldiers. The computer, however, can tell us whether we are training the right soldiers and putting them in the right unit. To that extent, it helps in increasing the efficiency.

Mr Hwang Soo Jin: I thank the Minister for his reply. I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

4.15 p.m.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1036.

Sir, as I have another amendment* on subhead 1041 of the same Head, may I seek your permission to range my remarks over both amendments?

• The amendment reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead1041.

The Chairman: Yes.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Sir, subhead 1036 is the vote for a Research Officer under Salary Code 154. This Code gives .a salary scale ranging from $800 to $1,650. The Research Officer under subhead 1041 comes under a different Salary Code; Code 216 which gives a salary scale ranging from $935 to $1,255. The question is: what is the reason for the disparity in the salary scales for these two Research Officers? It is understandable if one officer is on a different grade from the other, but the Estimates of Expenditure does not indicate so. The nomenclature is the same, and yet the salaries differ. Can the Minister of Defence explain the difference in the salaries?

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Actually, the Research Officer coded under item (1036), the one who is paid higher, not only belongs to a different grade but also to another Ministry, that of my colleague, the Minister for Home Affairs. This post has been entered in error in the Estimates of the M.I.D., owing to an administrative slip which took place when the Ministry split. The other Research Officer is in my Ministry, Defence. We find that we do not need a very highly qualified Research Officer, and so we pay him less.

Mr N. Govindasamy: Sir, now that the administrative slip has been found out, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3005.

Sir, first, I would like to express my basic agreement with the view expressed by the Minister of Defence at a commissioning ceremony a few months ago. He said that in order to attract men of high calibre into the officer-cadre ship of the Singapore Armed Forces, a status has to be accorded to this officer corps by way of perquisites like housing, provision of motor vehicles, and so on. I think there should be a general acceptance of this principle. In modern warfare, it is not the man of brawn, the brawler, the tough, one of the Dirty Dozen, so to speak, who really contributes to victory - except perhaps in television performances - although soldiers should certainly be tough fighters. Marshal Georgi Zhukov, perhaps the Soviet Union's greatest soldier in the last war, was said to have expressed the view that war is a science, a series of mathematical problems to be solved through proper integration and co-ordination of men and weapons in time and space. The soldier, and especially the officer, is not the kind of metal out of which rough nails are made. He has indeed to have a fine intellectual temper. This being the case, the Singapore Armed Forces has to be seen as occupying an appropriate position in our society. However, it should be easily agreed also that status is won as much as it is accorded, is worked for as much as it is given.

In this respect, the S.A.F., especially its officer corps, has a big role to play. In fact, it has already begun this role for some time past and should continue to play it more vigorously. The S.A.F, has participated in many community projects. In my own constituency, we have received help in cleaning-up operations after serious flooding. We have received help in the planting of trees. We have received promise of such cooperation any time we call upon the help of the military in the vicinity of my constituency. Furthermore, there was a warm response to the military static display which was held at the Katong Community Centre.

The behaviour and the initiative shown by officers have been generally exemplary on such occasions. It would be good to reiterate that under all circumstances the behaviour of S.A.F. officers should be considerate and gentlemanly. When he appears in public places of entertainment, for example, an officer should not forget that he represents the Armed Forces, even though he is not in uniform. When driving on the roads, he should always show courtesy, even if courtesy is distinctly lacking in others. The point I am trying to make is that not only should an Army officer set high standards of behaviour for himself, so as to show a leading example to his men but, wherever possible, also show such example to those who may not be in the Armed Forces. In this way, if there is something wanting in the behaviour of non-S.A.F, members, this should not be found wanting too in the standards of the officers.

Respect may then be won, and an appropriate status found for the S.A.F, in our society. Therefore, when the soldier, especially the officer, undergoes training, he should, in addition to normal military training, perhaps at some stage of his army career, be exposed to knowledge and experience that would have a fine and civilizing influence over him, not to make him less of a soldier, but more of a gentleman. If I may quote from Shakespeare:

`In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility: But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger;' -Henry V. Act 111, Scene 1, lines 3-6..

Dr Goh Keng Swee: Sir, the speech that the Member for Katong was ref erring to was made by me at the Istana commissioning ceremony last November. Perhaps I might say a few words on the progress that has been achieved to give officers better perks, such as a decent car, house, and so on. The Manpower Division, M.I.D., has been applying their minds to this subject of staff cars, and the thinking now is that officers in command of brigades or higher formations should be getting a Mercedes, and battalion commanders should get a Ford Cortina, or a slightly bigger car, but I am told that none of that is being assembled here.

As regards houses for them to live in and to buy on instalments, my Permanent Secretary has been hunting for a suitable tract of land. After three or four trials, I think he has found the right tract. There is quite a good piece of land off Ayer Rajah Road, where the British Navy used to have some oil tanks which we now think we can afford to demolish. It is in a very nice area, very central, and we are now negotiating with the Housing Board to see whether or not we can take part of the land to build high-rise apartment blocks for sale to our officers on instalment basis.

Regarding the other matter of the way an officer and a gentleman should conduct himself, I am impressed by what the Member has said. If he will let me have a copy of his speech, or perhaps with your permission, Mr Speaker, Sir, if we could extract it from the Hansard, we might publish it in the next issue of the Pioneer.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, I am flattered by the Minister's request, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $442,831,720 for Head 0401 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0501 -

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 4X50l be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao, Low Yong Nguan and P. Govindaswamy.)

Sir, the allocation for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is $11,366,250. This is only a slight increase over the provision for the last financial year. It shows that the Ministry has increased its activities, and we have got quite a good reputation in the field of international diplomacy and foreign affairs. We have been able to acquire more international friends. Of course, the main aim of our foreign policy is based on our national interest. Under this grand ideal and principle, we will try to resort to all practical measures to maintain good relationship with as many countries as possible and to establish trade relations with them. Of course, this is Beneficial to our country.

Sir, I believe that Members will agree with me when I say that we can be successful in our foreign policy because we have not only a good foreign policy but also a capable Minister for Foreign Affairs, which is also an important factor. However, I have four questions to ask of the Minister:

4.30 p.m.

(1) Up to-date, in how many countries have we set up embassies or high commissions?

(2) Is there any plan to set up any new `consular corps in any country this year?

(3) In the past one year, what benefits have we derived from the ASEAN organisation?

(4) How many creditable measures in this year's ASEAN Regional Programme can help us to promote our tourism and trade, and in other fields?

I wonder whether the Minister will be good enough to answer all these questions.

Mr Conceicao: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the last fortnight or so, a phenomenon has been reported a number of times in several newspapers about the so-called "squall" over the Straits of Malacca. There were arguments as to whether it should be internationalised, or whether certain limitations should be imposed on navigation through the straits, and a decision over this matter may have some important consequences for us. I wonder whether it is opportune and appropriate at this time for the Minister to comment further on this issue.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, sometime ago, the Chinese Chamber of Commerce successfully organised a trade mission to Communist China. I feel that more such visits should be encouraged. May I ask if our Government intends to improve the relationship by sending more trade missions, and finally establishing full diplomatic ties with China?

The Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr S. Rajaratnam): Mr Speaker, Sir, first of all, I must say that I am always very glad to listen to speeches from the Member for Sembawang, because his estimation of my capability is higher than that of my own. This is rather reassuring!

In regard to his question as to how many embassies we now have in the different countries, there are at present seven Ambassadors and five High Commissioners in Commonwealth countries, one Permanent Representative in the United Nations, and one High Commissioner in Hong Kong.

As regards whether we have any plans to set up new embassies or missions, we have set up an embassy in Brussels, and there is a consulate in Medan. As far as I know, we have no other plans to set up any more missions, unless there is the need for it. As the Member probably knows, we do not set up missions or embassies for the sake of prestige but only where there is a clear need, either political or economical, or otherwise, to set up such mission. As I have said in the past, sometimes you are able to promote the best of relations with other countries without having to set up embassies or missions in them.

The other question which the Member asked was what benefits have we derived from being a member of ASEAN. ASEAN has been undertaking a number of projects during the past year for the mutual benefit of member-countries, but these are mainly in the field of tourism. In fact, a number of activities were conducted as part of the "Visit ASEAN Year of 1971". We have conducted trade seminars in Auckland, Sydney and Perth, for the tourist industry there. There was the Visit ASEAN Year commemorative stamps. Then also there was the ASEAN Film Festival held last year. The competition was organised to select an ASEAN musical team to introduce joint-ASEAN Radio and T.V. Programme as part of our cultural activities with ASEAN. A number of countries participated jointly in the ASEAN Pavilion at the 1971 Jakarta Fair, which is part of a joint effort to promote trade and commerce among member-countries.

In regard to civil aviation, four project-teams of aviation experts visited the ASEAN capitals to survey operational and airport facilities available in each country, with a view to co-ordinating such services among member-countries so that each country can provide a better service for air traffic operations within the region. We have training courses, workshops and seminars relating to a variety of subjects, such as seminars on production and fisheries.

Apart from these benefits, there are 11 Permanent Committees, all of which continue to exchange information relevant to their fields. During the year a number of them consolidated their activities by establishing clearing houses for collection, processing and dissemination of information and publications.

We have also requested a United Nations Study Team to make a study and to report on the fields of trade and industrial co-operation, monetary and financial co-operation, forestry and forest industry, agriculture and shipping. The final report of this U.N. Study Team is expected to be ready sometime at the end of this month.

Apart from all this, there have been the granting of scholarships under the ASEAN scheme and, as far as Singapore is concerned, there are a number of ASEAN scholars studying in Singapore. For example, there are 15 in the University of Singapore, eight in Nan-yang University and 74 Pre-University students. These are some of the activities, not very dramatic, but obviously progress is being made and this is a bit better than making no progress at all.

As regards the question by the Member for Anson about establishing diplomatic ties with the People's Republic of China, I have stated on many occasions that, in principle, since we have recognised and supported China's admission to the United Nations we must, sooner or later, have other forms of relation with them. But we are an island-state situated in South-east Asia. We have many neighbours whose interests and views must be considered should we want to enter into negotiations to establish a diplomatic mission in the People's Republic of China. And as some Members here may be aware, the members of ASEAN have discussed this matter and there is general agreement that before any member of ASEAN enters into diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, he must consult the body and co-ordinate his action.

The Straits of Malacca and of Singapore is a topical issue at the moment, but it is not necessarily the be-all and end-all of the issue. It is imperative that the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore should not become the catalyst for a new cold war. It could well become one, if the discussion and approach to this issue and the problems connected with it were discussed in terms inviting cold war postures by countries within or outside the region. Once such postures and attitudes are taken then it becomes, as it always does, an intractable cold war issue. Then rational solutions which are now open to us to resolve some of the real problems connected with the Straits may be closed, if not forever, then at least for a long time. The real problems could well be lost sight of, once the question of the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore is befogged by cold war considerations. I do not need to draw the attention of the Member, if he had been reading the papers recently, that we are coming close to a cold war over the Straits of Malacca, and by that I mean that there are incipient murmurs of such a possibility. This will be tragic, since, as a result of the detente between China and the United States, the prospects of running down the old cold war in Indochina and in South-east Asia are generally better than they bad been for many years. Therefore, it will be tragic if we start a new cold war in our region. As Singapore sees it, the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore is a vital lane for sea communications and trade between Europe, Africa and Western Asia on the one hand, and the Far East on the other.

4.45 p.m.

We believe that this lane should be freely accessible to all nations without discrimination. It has been used as an international waterway for centuries and has become a major artery of the network of international communications and trade. To do anything or to say anything to disrupt this is to disrupt international communications and trade seriously. But Singapore, together with Indonesia and Malaysia, are concerned with some of the problems affecting our national interests which have arisen as a result of increased traffic through the Straits. There is need to ensure safety of navigation, to avoid danger of collisions as a result of larger vessels and increased traffic. There is also the danger of oil and other forms of pollution, which can have disastrous consequences for the three countries bordering the Straits. There are also problems of security arising from naval rivalry of big powers. In other words, while Singapore stands for unimpeded passage of all ships of all nations through the Straits, it also feels that those who use it must, in turn, agree to observe certain rules and regulations to ensure safety, security, and avoid risks of collision in the Straits.

With this end in view, the three countries held discussions in November last year and agreed to establish a body composed of their representatives to coordinate efforts for the safety of navigation. The three countries agreed that the problems of safety of navigation and the question of the so-called internationalisation of the Straits are two separate issues.

Indonesia and Malaysia were of the view that the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore are not international straits, while recognising the use of the Straits for international shipping in accordance with the principle of innocent passage.

Singapore, however, could not go any further than to take note of the views of our two neighbours. The reason is that, in Singapore's view, the status of the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore should not be considered in isolation but in conjunction with the status of some 114 straits scattered throughout the world and which are considered vital links in international sea communications. These straits are spread over all continents and adjoin many countries, such as Canada, Denmark, United Kingdom, United States, the U.S.S.R., Japan, China, Australia, New Zealand, and many others. We feel that it would be premature to settle the status of the Straits of Malacca one way or the other without reaching agreement on the other 113 such straits which are considered by the U.N, to be of international importance.

There must be uniformity of agreement in regard to the status of all straits of international importance. The alternative to an international agreement is a dangerous scramble for the carve up of not only straits, but of oceans as well. Hitherto, most conflicts known to mankind have had to do with the carve up of land and rectification of land frontiers. Now that most of the world's land mass have been carved up, there could well be a scramble for the carve up of straits and oceans. And once the principle is conceded that the oceans are open for picking by those with power and might and strength, and to declare portions of these oceans as their preserves, then small countries - whoever else may win- will certainly be the losers. That is why Singapore is strongly of the view that the status of all straits, including that of Malacca and Singapore, should be settled by mutual accord and agreement in a rational way at the United Nations Law of the Sea Conference tentatively scheduled for next year. Were the future of the oceans and straits of international importance to be settled on the basis of unilateral carve ups on the principle of "finders keepers", then the seas of the world - they make up most of the world - could well become areas of anarchy and contest where right must be and will be largely on the side of those who have the might which, in technological terms, means those who have the biggest navy, the largest submarine fleets, and the greatest air power. So for this reason, we believe that the Straits of Malacca and of Singapore should not be made a cold war problem or a power conflict problem, but largely a problem of communications.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: Sir, I thank the Minister very much for his detailed reply to me. So I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0501 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1051*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P.Govindaswamy.)

Sir, I merely wish to express my curiosity as to whether or not the salaries as indicated by this vote for our Ambassadors and High Commissioners are really enough to enable them to perform their functions without too much worry over expenditure. I know that there is another item showing the payment of overseas allowances to our representatives abroad, but despite this allowance I have the impression that total emoluments for our Heads of Missions are still not enough. One point that springs to mind is what is the criterion used to determine the grade of allowance that a particular Head of a Mission is entitled to? Here again, perhaps there is no relationship between the cost of living for an Ambassador and the allowances that he actually gets. Sir, we are supposed to be a Republic with the second highest per capita income in Asia. Under these circumstances, our overseas Heads of Missions should receive emoluments commensurate with their importance and dignified calling to meet the financial demands of their office.

I do not know if it is about time we looked into the matter of getting a cadre of full-time Foreign Service officers at Head-of-Mission level who are prepared to serve on a permanent basis. But this cadre should not be seconded from among Ministers of State, Members of Parliament, University staff, etc. With the possibility of the emergence of this cadre of Foreign Service officers, could not a new scheme of pay be devised?

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, looking through this year's Budget Statement, I noticed that our hotel occupancy rate is going down year by year. Is it possible that our overseas missions have not given sufficient emphasis in their efforts to promote tourism? I think they can do better than what they are doing at present. Or perhaps if we could increase their salaries, they will then work hard.

Mr Rajaratnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think what the Member for Anson has been saying is less than fair to our Ambassadors. They work very hard, regardless of whether their salaries are increased or decreased. However, since both Members have raised the question of emoluments for our Ambassadors and High Commissioners, I would like to say that, as far as I know there have been no complaints from them as regards salaries. But there have been complaints and grouses regarding their overseas allowances.

The grades and salaries of Heads of Missions are equated with the Civil Service Superscale Grades D, E and G, i.e., salaries of $2,170, $2,070, and $1,920 respectively. This is to avoid upsetting the Government salary structure and to provide prospects of advancement to higher grades. The total emoluments of Heads of Missions who are married with, say, three children, range from $3,944.50 to $5,903 per month for a Grade II Ambassador or High Commissioner. In addition to all these, he is provided with rent-free furnished accommodation, a chauffeur-driven car for his exclusive use, and adequate financial provisions for entertainment and representational activities.

Generally, the rates for overseas allowances depend on the cost of living index applicable to the country o posting. However, in view of the complaints from some Heads of Missions that they are not adequate, my Ministry has made representation to the Ministry of Finance for an interim revision of the existing overseas cost of living allowances and this, as far as I understand, is under active consideration by them.

Mr Conceicao: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not touched on the possibility of a proper cadre of ranking Foreign Service officers at ambassadorial level for the Foreign Service. Perhaps this would be a better scheme than getting people from various walks of life and post them overseas on a temporary basis.

Mr Rajaratnam: Sir, I think I have said on previous occasions that our Foreign Service must be re-modelled on the basis that it is not a trade union purely for professional diplomats. We must have a mixture of professional diplomats of M.P.s, Ministers of State, politicians, businessmen, university dons, etc., so that this wide strata of our society can bring in the various valuable expertise. Our main concern in Foreign Service is the development of commerce and trade with some countries. So there is no use sending a politician to conduct matters where commercial acumen and industrial understanding is the more dominant function of an ambassador. As it is, I can say that, by and large, this experiment in recruiting bankers and industrialists has produced far greater results than having a purely professional cadre of diplomats.

5.00 p.m.

I believe that in many other countries too, including the United States, it is not the custom to take the old approach that the diplomatic service is completely and wholly staffed by professional diplomats. Until we have reason to believe that this present system does not work, we will continue to adopt this present form of approach to the diplomatic service.

Mr Conceicao: Sir, I thank the Minister for bringing me to a better understanding of the principle behind recruitment to the Foreign Service. I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0501 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3104.

Sir, this subhead concerns "Staff and Expenses for New Missions Overseas". The Minister for Foreign Affairs has pointed out just now that two missions will be set up, one in Brussels and another in Medan. He has also mentioned that an overseas mission is set up on the basis of necessity and of interest to Singapore. I suspect, Sir, that the setting up of a mission in Brussels is for economic purposes, because the Minister for Finance has, in his Budget Statement, mentioned that it would be to our benefit if Singapore becomes an associate member of the E.E.C. (European Economic Community) or the European Common Market, whose headquarters is in Brussels. Apart from this benefit, perhaps the Minister would care to elaborate on the other factors which necessitate our Government's decision to set up a mission in Brussels, and in Medan.

Another point I would like to raise is whether these two missions will be established at ambassadorial level. The reason is that my attention has been drawn to the grades of Ambassadors and High Commissioners, discussion of which has just been concluded under an amendment to subhead 1051. In this matter, 1 think the grades of our Ambassadors and High Commissioners should not be indicated in the Estimates for obvious reasons, It may well be that we need to indicate the number of Ambassadors and High Commissioners, and together with it their total personal emoluments. But by its inclusion in the Budget Estimates, as it has been in all these years, everyone will know that such and such a foreign mission is headed by such and such a grade of Ambassador. I am aware that some of our Ambassadors and High Commissioners are rendering their services gratis; I appreciate their contribution to Singapore. But I would say that it is unwise to classify the different grades of Ambassadors and High Commissioners in the Estimates. Therefore, I hope that in the next year's estimates we will not be able to know their various grades.

Sir, I now come to a point which the Minister has just replied that there were no complaints about the salaries of Ambassadors, except perhaps Overseas Allowances. I take it that there has been no complaints officially. But I have had the opportunity to visit some of our overseas establishments, and I think it is high time the Foreign Ministry seriously looked into the question of providing adequate, if not more than adequate, overseas allowances and proper accommodation for our high officials overseas. For example, let us take Japan. Our former Ambassador to Japan was put up in an apartment which was, I think, probably about I X- times the size of a 4-room Housing Board flat. I am not exaggerating because on one occasion I paid him a visit at his residence. I doubt that with such an accommodation and surroundings that he was provided, and with only a small place to park his car, he would be able to hold an official function in his house. I must point out that the Ambassador concerned did not ask me to bring up this matter. I think this illustration is necessary.

An hon. Member: A rugged Singaporean.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: It may be that he is a rugged Singaporean. The Minister for Finance has been a bit generous with his tax reliefs and, he has also mentioned that we are heading for a surplus and that our Gross National Product is going up and up. I do not know how far up it is going to be, but let us come down to brass tacks.

Mr N. Govindasamy: They have no trade unions.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Yes, as the Member for Telok Blangah has just remarked, Ambassadors have no trade unions. Be that as it may, Sir, I hope that in countries where the cost of living is extremely high, for example, Japan, the United States of America and the United Kingdom, our Ambassadors or High Commissioners will get a level of allowance that is in keeping with their status in those countries. Of course, in respect of accommodation, the Foreign Minister might say, "Look, what is the use of having so much space? After all, being revolutionaries, we do not need that sort of luxury!" No doubt, we may not want to look at it from the prestige point of view, but it is my view that they must at least be accorded some degree of comfort and be happy enough to be able to say, "Welcome to my little flat." I hope the Foreign Minister will elaborate further on this point, taking into consideration what I have just said.

Mr Rajaratnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, with reference to the Member's query as to why we have established a mission in Brussels, he was quite right in saying that it was established primarily, though not wholly, for commercial considerations. I am not quite sure whether he meant that as a criticism or a commendation; I hope it is a commendation. However, the Head of the Mission will be at ambassadorial level. It may well be that since it is the first mission in Continental Europe, our mission in Brussels will have concurrent accreditation elsewhere in Europe, if it is possible.

As regards Medan, our Mission there is at Consulate level and, therefore, there is no question of an Ambassador. We want to be in the best of terms with our Indonesian neighbour. The main function of a consulate is to promote the potential for trade and, in particular, tourism.

The other comment by the Member concerns the emoluments of Heads of Missions, and I have dealt with this subject. I think the lines for setting a standard for what is comfortable or what is not, may vary. I have also been to what he has called "a little flat" of the Ambassador in Tokyo. As far as I can see, most flats in Japan are "little flats", because their concept of size is quite different from other countries. Many very prominent and wealthy people live in little flats in Tokyo. However, I get the point made by the Member, and that is, in countries where the cost of living is high our Ambassadors should get appropriate allowances. The cost of living index was formulated at the time when things were fairly stable in Singapore. Many of our bureaucrats tend to think that the cost of living is also stable in other parts of the world. But in many other countries, the cost of living has risen considerably. However, we have made a representation to the Ministry of Finance to help Heads of Missions to meet additional expenditure arising from the increased cost of living in the countries where they have been posted. I hope the Ministry of Finance will, on both financial and humanitarian grounds, pay considerable attention to our representation.

Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am happy with the reply of the Minister, and I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $11,366,250 for Head 0501 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairman: I propose to take the suspension now.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: I suspend the sitting now and shall take the Chair again at 5.45 p.m.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.15 p.m. until 5.45 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.45 p.m.