PRIME MINISTER'S VISIT TO CHINA, THE US, AND THE COMMONWEALTH HEADS OF GOVERNMENT CONFERENCE IN THE BAHAMAS (Report)

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Mr J.B. Jeyaretnam asked the Prime Minister if he will report to the House on: (i) his discussions with the Chinese leaders on his recent visit to China; (ii) his discussions with President Reagan on his recent visit to the United States; and (iii) the Commonwealth Heads of Government Conference in the Bahamas.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, the discussions which I had with the government leaders on my recent visits to China, the United States and the Commonwealth Heads of Government Conference in the Bahamas have been extensively covered in my press conferences and reports in the press and on TV. I have no new items of information to disclose. If Members have any specific questions, whether or not arising from these reports, I shall be happy to answer them.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, supplementary questions for the Prime Minister. First of all, if I may take the trips in their sequence. On the China trip, may I know what was the reason for taking such a large delegation and, particularly, what was the role and purpose of the Senior Minister in the Prime Minister's Office in this delegation?

The Prime Minister: May I ask, when he uses words like "large" and "small", whether he can count? Would he let me know how many there were on the delegation?

Mr Jeyaretnam: Is the Prime Minister not aware of the number that he took with him to China? We were told that there were at least 30 of them.

The Prime Minister: Is that a statement of fact that he is making?

Mr Jeyaretnam: I am asking you. Are you saying that you did not take a team of 30 to China with you? And if you did not, how many did you take? It is as simple as that.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not count the members in my delegation. I know the principal aides who accompany me, and the Ministers. And the official members of the delegation include secretaries, and people in charge of baggage and other transportational problems. I thought I carried a smaller team in 1985 than I did in 1980.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Would the Prime Minister please enlighten this House a little bit more? These things cannot be kept secret. May we know what was the function and the role of the Senior Minister in his Office?

The Prime Minister: He is one of my closest colleagues. He shares his advice when I seek them. And if I did not think he was useful, I would not have brought him along.

Mr Jeyaretnam: What insights did he bring into the problems that you were discussing with the Chinese leaders?

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the House must first have a sense of perspective. Either I am the Prime Minister, or I am not the Prime Minister. If I am the Prime Minister, then I have the constitutional right to appoint my Ministers. And I appoint them because I believe them to be valuable and useful in the running of the Government.

The Senior Minister happens to be the man who pioneered our opening to China, so to speak. In April 1975, three years after the Nixon opening, he had established contact and he met the then Chinese Prime Minister, Mr Chou En Lai. He established our first links with the People's Republic of China, and he has been a continual thread in our relations with them throughout the years. It is my business to take advice from those who can give me advice. It is not my business to have to convince the Member for Anson that Mr Rajaratnam was a valuable aide.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Surely the Prime Minister must accept that he will have to justify every cost to the taxpayer. But let us move on to the next question. Was the Prime Minister satisfied in his talks with the Chinese leaders that they would not export communism to this part of the world nor encourage any insurrection in this part of the world?

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, what they have said to me and to other leaders have been well publicized and I have no reasons, from our experience in Singapore to disbelieve what they have said vis-a-vis their activities in Singapore.

Mr Jeyaretnam: May we take it from the Prime Minister that he is fully satisfied with their assurance that they would not export communism nor any insurrection into these areas? And is he then satisfied that there is no communist threat to Singapore?

The Prime Minister: That is a non sequitur. Whether I am satisfied or not has nothing to do with whether there is a communist threat or not. The Chinese are not exporting communism to Nicaragua but there is a threat of communism in Nicaragua. The Chinese are not exporting communism to the Philippines, but nobody doubts that there is a threat to the Philippines by the New People's Army.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Would the Prime Minister say ---

The Prime Minister: Get your thoughts right!

Mr Jeyaretnam: I am getting my thoughts right, Mr Prime Minister. It is you who is having difficult getting your thoughts right. The question is: do you now consider that there is any communist threat to Singapore?

The Prime Minister: We have moved a long way from my visits to China, the US and the Bahamas. Would he like to come back to those questions?

Mr Jeyaretnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, the question concerns his discussions about stability in this part of the world. I thought that was part of his discussions with the Chinese leaders.

The Prime Minister: I did not say it.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Did you not? I thought that you were reported as having got these assurances.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member should come armed with my statements. I went to China for one major reason, namely, trade and economic relations. I did not bring with me my Foreign Minister because it was not an issue.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Is the Prime Minister saying that there was no discussion at all with the Chinese leaders about stability in this part of the world? Is he saying that?

The Prime Minister: I am telling the Member for Anson that he should read his reports. At no time did I say that the stability of Singapore was a subject of discussion with my counterparts in the People's Republic of China.

Mr Jeyaretnam: It must have been obvious. I suppose it was not obvious to the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister: What was obvious?

Mr Jeyaretnam: If, from what he said that he had no reason to doubt their assurances that there is no communist threat here, may I ask what is the continued justification for the detention of Mr Chia Thye Poh?

Mr Speaker: It is irrelevant to the question you have asked.

Mr Jeyaretnam: It is in relation to the communist threat, communist subversion, which at one time the Prime Minister himself said originated from China.

Mr Speaker: There is no mention of communism in your question.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I am, Mr Speaker, Sir, trying to fathom the Prime Minister's mind ---

The Prime Minister: Impossible!

Mr Jeyaretnam: --- to get answers to questions. It would appear to be an impossible task, Mr Prime Minister. I concede that. I have been attempting to ask the Prime Minister to get an answer from him.

The Prime Minister: Have you sorted out your thoughts?

Mr Jeyaretnam: I have, Mr Prime Minister, if you will listen. Were you not reported as having said that you were satisfied with the assurances that they would not export communism into this part of the world?

The Prime Minister: No, I was never reported as saying that in China.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Not in China, outside. I take it that the Prime Minister proposes not to answer the question about the communist threat to Singapore and about the continued detention of Mr Chia Thye Poh. Is that what I am to understand?

Mr Speaker: The Prime Minister does not have to answer that.

Mr Jeyaretnam: All right, Mr Speaker, Sir, if you rule that he does not have to answer. May I move on to his discussions with President Reagan. Did he discuss with President Reagan the question of stability and peace in this part of the world? Did he discuss it or not? Let us have a straight answer.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is no crime to discuss these matters with the President of the United States. But demeanour, the tone, the voice of the Member implies that I have committed some heinous offence. I discussed a wide range of subjects. Amongst them is the peace and stablity of Singapore and of the region.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Did the Prime Minister express his concern and the desirability of keeping this area nuclear free?

The Prime Minister: I did not, Mr Speaker, Sir.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Did the Prime Minister discuss with President Reagan the dispute that the United States is having with New Zealand over the visit of nuclear warships to New Zealand?

The Prime Minister: No.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Are we to understand from the Prime Minister that he is not desirous of keeping this area nuclear free?

The Prime Minister: I am in favour of motherhood.

Mr Jeyaretnam: I see that the Prime Minister finds all this very funny. It must be his particular brand of humour. May I move on to the Commonwealth Heads of Government Conference in the Bahamas. Because very little has been reported about the Prime Minister's utterances in this conference, may we know from him what stand he took on this question of sanctions against South Africa? Did he, for example, stand with the Prime Minister of a neighbouring country, one of the members of Asean, or did he line up behind the British Prime Minister?

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think the Member for Anson has got his geography right at these conferences. We do not line up with each other. We do not stand behind each other, and I needed no skirts to protect me. My position was clear. It so happened that I had an interview, I think, with ITN, on the morning the subject came up for debate, and I made it quite clear that we were in favour of sanctions to send the right signals. As far as I was concerned, the majority of the members were also in favour. Mrs Thatcher was not. In the event, the outcome did not mention the word "sanctions" because they wanted unanimity. And so it was - no sanctions.

Mr Jeyaretnam: Would he tell us what stand did he take in the discussions, not on the report he gave to reporters afterwards about whether he favoured sanctions or not? May we know quite categorically what was the stand that Singapore took?

The Prime Minister: It was no secret, Mr Speaker, Sir, nor any surprise. The stand I took in the Conference was exactly what I told the ITN man. If he wanted further details, I will tell him that he ought to read the Straits Times because I met the Straits Times and SBC and Zaobao and Berita. If I could paraphrase myself, because I cannot reproduce the exact words I used.

When the whole debate was about to be repeated again on a Sunday afternoon at a delightful resort called Lyford Cay in the Bahamas at about quarter to one, I thought that we would all be late for lunch. So I interjected to remind the Chairman that five eloquent, articulate and powerful members of the Commonwealth had been at work on Mrs Thatcher for the whole weekend, from Friday evening to Saturday morning, afternoon and night, and we were then on Sunday morning, that if she had not changed her mind - and there were two documents on the table, one the majority view, the other the view of the British Prime Minister - it was unlikely that the 40 others who had not been at work on her would move her. I therefore suggested that there were two alternatives: (1) a majority document, and allow Mrs Thatcher to issue her minority point of view; or (2) a consensus document, which meant that the Five should get to work and resolve the differences between the two documents so that there could be one.

The discussions went on till 9 o'clock that evening. I am sorry to say that I had an appointment for dinner with the Sultan of Brunei, so I was not present at the final resolution. But they did reduce the two documents into one, which was what I had suggested at a quarter to one. The pity, however, was that I did not have lunch till a quarter past two.

Mr Chiam See Tong: May I ask the Prime Minister a supplementary question in regard to trade between Singapore and China? One of the areas which Singapore could provide China with is professional services. Has the Government taken any steps or made any provisions to ensure that if there should be any services provided to China, it will not be monopolised by the public sector, and that some area of this business should be reserved for our now very troubled private sector?

The Prime Minister: I understand the motives of the Member for Potong Pasir. He wants to ingratiate himself, reassure the private sector that as a result of his intervention they are going to get a lion's share of this China consultancy business.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Because the private sector is a sick man now.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, my discussions covered a wide range, and it did no more than open doors. Actual business will have to be conducted by entrepreneurs and consultants who have goods and services to sell.

Mr Chiam See Tong: The Prime Minister has not really answered the question here. If there should be some business in this area, will the private sector get a share of it?

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not the other party. I am giving no business away. I just ensure that doors would be opened, that any architect, or accountant, or engineer, or lawyer, could go not just to Beijing, which is mandatory, but other than the 14 economic zones and the four special development zones, they can also go to any provincial centre direct. I am not giving out contracts or consultancy services. It is the Chinese who are.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Does not the Prime Minister realize that the PWD has taken steps to give local architects business, which they have not done so before, or at least not at this kind of level?

The Prime Minister: Do I understand now that we are talking about Singapore?

Mr Chiam See Tong: Yes. This is only an example. When the economy was booming and doing well, the private sector was neglected. Now that the economy is not doing so well, the Government is taking steps to help the private sector here and there, in little bits. The PWD, I am saying, has taken some steps to farm out work to the architects of Singapore. Should there be business coming from China, would the Prime Minister please make a statement or say something as to whether or not the public sector, like the Port of Singapore Authority or other public Government bodies, will not hoard the whole business?

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not the Prime Minister of China. I cannot order the PWD of China to put out tenders for Singapore architects.