ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST JANUARY, 1969, TO 31ST MARCH, 1970

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day].

Resumption of debate on Question (13th December, 1968),

"That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0501 be reduced by $100."- [Madam Chan Choy Siong].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

3.00 p.m.

Head 0501 -

The Chairman: The Question is, "That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0501 be reduced by $100.".-[Inche Rahim Ishak]

The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs (Inche A. Rahim Ishak): Mr Speaker, Sir, when the House rose for the adjournment last Friday night, I was on the point of answering questions which were raised by the Members for Delta, Crawford and Ulu Pandan concerning our international relations and our foreign affairs policy. The Member for Delta asked what the present state was of ASEAN, what future it would have and whether any concrete progress could be achieved by it. Well, Sir, even as I commenced replying to her, things were taking place in Bangkok where our Minister for Foreign Affairs along with other Ministers of the ASEAN member states had been conferring, among other things, to keep ASEAN viable, and an on-going concern despite the little dispute that was going on between two member states. It is on record, I am heartened to say, that some understanding has been reached between the Foreign Minister of the Philippines and the Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia at Bangkok, subject to the concurrence of their respective governments, which will, we hope, allow ASEAN a fresh opportunity to carry on business. You cannot allow a business enterprise to close shop after having started business just because differences occur between two of its board members, as differences are only to be expected from time to time over one another's specific problem. Even the European Economic Community, which is not just 10 years old but almost 20 years old, does not function with unanimity on all issues. One example is the admission of the United Kingdom into the common market.

ASEAN has as yet not brought direct benefit 10 its members, but this should occasion no special disappointment because it s only just over a year old. During the year substantial progress has been made to clarify and define approaches to greater economic co-operation among member states. At the recent Ministerial Meeting held in Djakarta last August, areas of co-operation have been defined in food production and supply (including fisheries), shipping, transportation, telecommunications, civil aviation and tourism. In fact, on tourism, some of the recommendations have already been implemented, for example, the introduction of a seven-day free visa in Singapore and facilities for package and chartered tours. There is also the bilateral agreement with Indonesia on the Bali tourist potential.

In keeping with our policy of making the maximum number of friends, Singapore must co-operate with as many countries as possible for mutual benefit, particularly so in the case of our immediate neighbours, namely, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines. This is a natural grouping of nations in a common neighbourhood, but effort must be made to foster the community spirit so that mutual understanding and co-operation is further developed. Whatever the difficulties of the moment, the ASEAN concept must be maintained - even as a state of mind. Last Friday night, I said that we have no illusions about regionalism or about joining ASEAN. For in the ultimate, the small nations in a single neighbourhood have to stick together regardless of whether it is in Asia, Africa, Europe or South America.

The Members for Delta, Crawford and Ulu Pandan also touched on our defence build-up and would like to know how it would affect our non-aligned policy and our commitment to regional co-operation, against a back ground of turbulence in the Southeast Asian region. And as the Member for Crawford puts it, the possibility of shifting balance of power within the region arising from the possibility of an early end to the Vietnam war and the emergence of a well-tried, well-organised military organisation in Vietnam larger than that of our members of the region.

In the first place. Sir, I do not see any incompatibility between our defence build-up, which will cost us some $350 million in next year's budget, and our non-aligned policy. There is neither in consistency nor incompatibility, it is an inevitable concomitant of our independence that we develop and exercise our muscles for defence purposes, and, as far as we are concerned, for defence purposes only. It is like members of the fair sex deciding these days to take up karate or judo. I am sure these precautionary measures are for defence and not for offence. For while the intention in such cases where the fair sex is concerned is to be equipped to defend herself against any attack against her modesty, it does not, of course, preclude her from giving way to temptation and using it for other non-defensive purposes.

Secondly, Sir, there is no doubt in my mind that our regional effort in defence is inseparably bound up with our neighbour Malaysia and tied to co-operation and assistance from our Commonwealth partners, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand. But we need to establish credibility and a sort of creditworthiness ourselves, so that our part of the bargain in the total set-up is not wholly insignificant or negative.

Thirdly, Sir, I do not think, as the Member for Crawford might be anxious about, that the Vietnamese people after more than two decades of suffering, harassment and war, would want anything more than to enjoy the blessings of peace and to rebuild their economy and get on with the business of a normal peaceful existence once the war there is officially and technically over.

I should like also to stress the point that it is of the utmost importance that while we make progress internally in strengthening our economic and defence sinews, internationally we should also make the maximum progress within our limited resources to seek and maintain the friendship of other nations, both big and small and whatever their ideology and systems of government. If by our defence policy and defence arrangements we can ensure that other nations would not be predisposed to be aggressive towards us, then to that extent we will feel assured of a basis for friendly relations, upon which we can further seek to enlarge by continuing to pursue a forward-looking policy.

Since we extend the hand of friendship to all nations alike, there is also the need for us to maintain friendship even with those nations that may not be as friendly, in the hope that over the years they too will appreciate our gesture of friendship and discard any hostility or dissatisfaction which they may hold against us. The hard reality of international life is that today's foes can be tomorrow's friends. After all, governments are made up of human beings whose policies are subject to change depending on what is in their own respective interests.

Our foreign policy is, briefly, in a sense, a most forward "defence" policy that can be conceived, since it endeavours to secure the maximum of friends and ensure their friendship with us at all times and under all circumstances, whatever their own attitudes and reactions to other nations, in a way, our policy of friendship towards all nations indirectly supplements our security.

On our non-aligned policy as brought up by the Member for Crawford, Sir, I already spoke at length last Thursday on this topic and I would not like to burden the House by unnecessarily repeating it all over again. However. I would again stress that our non-aligned policy is anchored to safe and unexceptionable premises which are beyond dispute and contradiction. I should also like to explain - as there appears to be some confusion about this - that non-alignment does not mean rigid neutralism in dealing with specific issues. This distinction must be understood, otherwise we may be unjustifiably and mistakenly represented by the misinformed or the mischievous that we follow one bloc or another in making known our stand on certain important issues from time to time.

When we express our conviction and our opinion on any specific issue, we do so purely on the merits of the case and in the light of our national interest first and foremost, and not because we follow one power bloc or another as such. Our non-aligned policy does not, in fact, preclude us from expressing our own conviction on specific issues based on our own experience and circumstances, and our own judgment on the effect it would have on our international relations, itself resting on our basic premise in wanting to be friends to all and enemy to none. The policy of non-alignment cannot be a policy of non-com mitment in the literal sense of the word. It could never be so, because in carrying out a policy of non-alignment, we aim for the achievement of certain definite objectives. For that matter, no policy can be considered as uncommitted because every policy we decide upon and execute implies action and has certain definite objectives for the achievement of which it is engaged. So the last thing that the policy of non-alignment can mean is to have permanent enemies or permanent friends. This it cannot be.

The Member for Crawford also touched on the changing scene and power shifts in Asia and he made reference to the emergence of a strong Vietnam, once the present conflict is over As I said in the general debate on the Budget, small countries like Singapore will always be in the shadow of more powerful nations. But just because they are powerful, it should not be taken to he synonymous with any suggestion that they have any hostile intentions towards us. For that matter, not only will Vietnam be a strong nation, as the Member for Crawford has said, but there are many other stronger nations than Vietnam, as he knows. Judging by both the pronouncements of policy and their actions, the Member should rest assured that whatever the strength of countries like Vietnam, our policy of friendship with all, regardless of ideology or systems of government, is intended to show that just as we do not wish to interfere in their internal affairs or the way they run their government, we also respect them for according us the same treatment. In brief, we cannot allow ourselves to be perpetually living in fear of our surroundings simply because there are large super-powers, much stronger nations in the world. By adhering to intelligent and realistic policies, I am confident we and other small countries can still live and work together for mutual benefit.

3.15 p.m.

Finally, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Delta raised a question concerning our posts in Johore Bahru and Rangoon. As for Johore Bahru, the original proposal was to have a consular post there with the appointment of an officer of the rank of Third Secretary, to deal primarily with the issue of visas and related matters connected with facilitating travel between West Malaysia and Singapore. Unfortunately, the response to this from Malaysia has not been favourable in view of its interpretation of our request as being that of our desire for establishing a visa office, tantamount to establishing a branch of the Singapore Immigration Department in Johore Bahru which is foreign territory. While the establishment of such an office would have in fact been more beneficial to Malaysians wishing to travel to Singapore, in view of this response the matter was not pursued further. However, the provision still remains and as soon as it is convenient to establish a consular office in Johore Bahru with a wider range of functions, a fresh ap proach will be made to the Malaysian Government.

In the case of Rangoon, it is not possible to say categorically when this post will be set up. All I can say now is that it has to be fitted into an amended time-table taking into account various new missions which have to be set up in the course of the next year or two.

Mr Ho See Beng (Bras Basah): A point of clarification, Sir. Just now the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs said that Singapore will even extend its hand of friendship to some of the unfriendly nations. Will the Minister inform this House which are the unfriendly nations?

Mr Low Yong Nguan (Crawford): Mr Speaker, Sir, I want to clarify two points. I do not know how the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs came to the conclusion, from my short statement last Friday, that I was questioning the incompatibility of the defence build-up with our foreign policy. What I did say was that too much money was being spent on defence and too little on foreign affairs.

Secondly, on Vietnam, what I wanted to say was that the end of the Vietnam war does not mean the end of confusion, it will most probably result in more confusion, more guess-work and doubts.

Inche Rahim Ishak: Sir, the Member for Bras Basah asked who were the unfriendly nations to which I referred, I think it should be clear to him that one way of making enemies is to mention who they are. For that reason, it is best for us not to mention the names of the unfriendly nations.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Labour (Mr S. Rajaratnam): Silence is golden.

Inche Rahim Ishak: Yes. This is where silence is not only golden but very much more precious than gold.

As to the comments made by the Member for Crawford just now, it was rather late in the evening when the Member raised the question of Vietnam. I can well remember that he was trying to race against time and I hope he has not become too involved in the question that he has put. I think that over the week-end he must have discovered that the question he had asked might not have been relevant to the issue.

The incompatibility and inconsistency are, of course, anybody's guess.

As to the last point -

Mr Low Yong Nguan: Sir, I just want to clarify the situation.

The Chairman: Order.

Mr Low Yong Nguan resumed his seat.

Inche Rahim Ishak: I have already mentioned that our foreign policy is closely related with defence and that the more successful we are in carrying out our foreign policy, perhaps, with due respect to the Minister for Defence, the less he will have to spend on defence.

Mr Lee Teck Him (Ulu Pandan): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, a point of clarification. Just now the Minister of State said that I was against the defence policy. That is not so. I wanted to say something on it the other day, but time was up and I was not allowed to speak. The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs said that I was against our Government's. defence policy, but in fact I am 100 per cent for it. I did not, however, have the opportunity to speak my mind. What I am against is that our foreign policy is. not neutral enough.

The Chairman: Order. Mr Lee, I do not think it right to say you were not allowed to speak on Friday. At no time were you asked to curtail your speech. There was no question of your having been rushed.

Mr L. P. Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to belabour the use of that phrase "unfriendly nations". If our foreign policy is sincerely posited upon the fundamental premise that all nations are friendly to us, then, in the first place, we will not be able to categorise any nation as unfriendly. Perhaps the Minister of State will enlighten the House.

Inche Rahim Ishak: Mr Speaker, Sir, unless the Member for Serangoon Gardens has forgotten what T have just said, it will be clear that I did not categorise or mention any country which is supposed to be unfriendly towards Singapore.

With regard to the comments made by the Member for Ulu Pandan, they are like his reference to what you were supposed to have done, Sir, on Friday night. Similarly, in the last statement which I made when the House resumed. I did not mention what the Member was supposed to have said. On Friday night he said that we were no longer non-aligned and, if I am not mistaken, we were going to the Right in our foreign policy. I can only ask him to support his own statement that we are not non-aligned or that we are Rightists in our foreign policy.

Mr Lee Teck Him: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to make a point of clarification. The Minister of State for Foreign Affairs said that I was accusing him of going to the Right. I never said such a thing at all.

Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta): Sir, I am quite satisfied with the reply given by the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $10,829,380 for Head 0501 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Head 0601 -

Mr Lim Cheng Lock (Kampong Kapor): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001.

Sir, in the later part of this year, regulations were provided under the Central Provident Fund rules to enable contributors who have the required balances in their accounts to make use of such balances and monthly contributions to purchase Housing and Development Board flats under the home ownership scheme. The response to this scheme was a great success and the Housing and Development Board is unable to cope with the demands.

In moving this amendment, may I ask the Minister when he proposes to provide regulations to enable contributors of the Central Provident Fund who are not eligible to purchase Housing and Development Board flats, to make such purchases with other approved housing schemes with their balances and monthly contributions? I am sure this will accelerate our economic growth, assist the building industry and thereby increase our state revenue.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour (Mr Sia Kah Hui): Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no plan at present to extend the Central Provident Fund house purchasing scheme to enable members of the Central Provident Fund to purchase houses other than those built by the Housing and Development Board.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005.

Sir, we are at the moment accelerating the movement towards industrialisation, But at this point, it might be pertinent to ask what the Ministry is doing by way of research or planning to prepare for the various hazards of industrialisation, like injuries to the hand in the course of operating machines. Has the Ministry attempted to get figures of such injuries? I have, Sir. There may be need perhaps for a special department of experts in hand injuries in the Orthopaedic Ward of the General Hospital. Can I get some information on these matters from the Minister, Sir?

3.30 p.m.

Mr Rajaratnam: Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the increase in the number of hand injuries, I am happy to say that this matter has been exercising the mind of the Ministry of Labour recently and, in conjunction with the Ministry of Health, we are exploring the feasibility of setting up a Hand Unit in the Ortho paedic Ward of the General Hospital to look into this type of accidents, because, according to the statistics that we have, the number of accidents involving injuries to hands and fingers has shown a persistent increase in the last three years. The figures that I have here are, for example in 1967, out of 799 reported accidents, something like 360 involved injuries to hands and fingers. Therefore, with the growth of industrialisation - and as hands are the parts of the body which come into contact with machines - we expect more injuries to hands than to other parts of the body.

I can assure the Member for Serangoon Gardens that this matter is being looked into. I hope we shall be able to set up a proper Hand Unit to deal with these particular problems of industrial accidents.

Mr Rodrigo: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Low Yong Nguan: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101.

It is also my intention to speak on my next amendment No. (4)*, because I think it is best to take them together, thus saving time.

• Amendment No, (4) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1103.

Sir, the Factories Ordinance, 1958, provides for minimum health, safety and welfare requirements for persons employed in factories in the Republic. In some cases, these provisions fall short of those recommended by the International Labour Organisation. If we compare our legislation with that of other countries, our requirements are not up to their standard. The Factory Inspectorate is entrusted with the enforcement of these requirements. However, very often, the recommendations or rulings made by the Inspectorate are quietly overlooked or ignored by industrialists who make representations to other authorities entrusted with economic development, on the flimsy excuse that a rigid enforcement of such re quirements would result in hampering the growth of industrialisation.

Sir, I wish to warn the House that there is a rising trend in the rate of industrial accidents, one type of which has not been discussed. I think these accidents are mainly due to the absence of safety devices and safety appliances and the poor maintenance of industrial equipment. This is exactly what the Factory Inspectorate is out to eliminate. In Jurong, many industrialists ignore the simple requirements set out in the Factories (Persons-in-Charge) Regulations, 1960. Sir, this is bad. I consider that if we pass a set of laws, we should ensure that they work. But if we think that such laws are hampering our industrial progress - or even hampering any progress for that matter - let us revise them. The Inspectorate should not be asked to go round and try to do a good job when the requirements are not being carried out properly. It just goes round to see that the legal requirements are carried out by the industrialists. Of course, when I refer to industrialists not conforming to our requirements, I do not refer to all of them but to a number of them in Jurong who only care to make a quick profit and who do not worry about simple safety rules to protect the health and welfare of their workers.

Sir, the Government has professed itself to be democratic and socialist. The workers have given their unfailing support to us all these years. If we are asking them to sacrifice their fringe benefits for years to come, let us at least make sure that the factories are run in such a way as to ensure the safety and health of the workers.

Sir, I must say that the Factory Inspectorate has been trying to do a good job in spite of a shortage of staff and experienced engineers. Here again. I have to bring up the same point which I brought up under the Head "Ministry of Foreign Affairs". If a job is to be done, it should be done well, and if it is to be done well, attractive salaries should be paid to the staff so that they will want to stay in the service. I believe that only the Chief Inspector and the Senior Assistant of the Factory Inspectorate have sufficient experience to carry out involved inspections, such as inspections of boilers, etc. This means That they have to make such inspections all the time. They cannot get much help from their younger inspectors who do not have sufficient experience. This is all wrong. Sir,If we want a Factory Inspectorate to function efficiently, I think we should provide it with more staff. Even if it means paying them better salaries, by all means do so.

Mr Sia Kah Hui: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am in full agreement with the Member for Crawford that it is our responsibility to see to the safety and welfare of the workers. I am afraid he made a rather general statement when he said that factory owners do not conform to safety requirements. I can only say that, as far as the Factory Inspectorate is concerned, close liaison has always been maintained between the various bodies interested in safety requirements in factories, in this connection, the Economic Development Board is one of the bodies consulted. The duty of the Factory Inspectorate is to see that the minimum safety standards laid down in the law are complied with.

With regard to the Member's statement that the Factory Inspectorate is short-handed and that it does not have the necessary experienced men, I can only say that, like all the other departments, we would like to have as many as possible on the staff and as many experts as we can get. But I am afraid, as is always the case, a balance must be struck somewhere. In this case, the provision in the Estimates is considered adequate.

Mr Low Yong Nguan: I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (4) is not being moved. Amendment No. (5)*, Mr P. Govindaswamy.

• The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon, Inche Mohd. Ariff bin Suradi, Madam Chan Choy Siong and Mr Sim Boon Woo.

Mr P. Govindaswamy (Anson): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251*.

• The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon, Inche Mohd. Ariff bin Suradi, Madam Chan Choy Siong and Mr Sim Boon Woo.

I appreciate that, under present circumstances, careful consideration should be given to the granting of citizenship rights to aliens, but there are deserving cases which merit sympathetic consideration, May I know from the Minister if he will consider the following cases sympathetically:

(1) children who were born in foreign countries but whose parents are both Singapore citizens;

(2) orphans or unwanted children who were born in Singapore but whose births were not reported by their parents and who were subsequently brought up in welfare or private homes;

(3) children who were born, especially of Chinese parents, during the Japanese Occupation and whose births were not reported.

Some of our younger Members in this House may not know that, during the Japanese Occupation, many of our Chinese citizens were afraid to move about, leave alone to report the births of their children to the Japanese authorities This was particularly so during the early days of the Occupation when many innocent Chinese were arrested and executed. The people born during those days are now married and have children who were born in Singapore, and yet they are not issued with citizenship papers.

And lastly:

(4) Singapore girls who married aliens and who are residing in Singapore may have children born in Singapore, and the whole family roots are in Singapore.

If citizenship is not given to the husband and the residential rights are withdrawn, the family will suffer hardship and perhaps the Social Welfare Department will have to look after the family when the husband is gone.

In the light of the above, may I ask the Minister if he will reconsider the citizenship policy and grant citizenship rights to those who have been continuously living here before 1967 or for some reasonable period of time?

3.45 p.m.

Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon (Tiong Bahru): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise in support of the Member for Anson in respect of his amendment. I request the Government to review the present policy of granting citizenship.

In the interest of the nation and in order not to increase the national burden, there is nothing wrong in critically examining every application for citizen ship. But I do feel there are certain aspects of the present policy which are too restrictive. They are too strict and unreasonable. As far as I know, there are in the Registry of Citizens many applications awaiting consideration, Among these applications are some from people who are in good employment. They have decided to make Singapore their permanent home and a nation to which they can owe loyalty. They have their families here. They have their wives and children living here, all of whom are Singapore citizens, However, the income of these people is not very high. They are not considered to be making any contribution to our national economy. As a result, their applications for citizenship have not been approved even after a long period. As a matter of fact, we can say that although their income is low, these people do, to a certain extent, make a contribution to our country. Through the sweat of their labour they have provided for their family who are Singapore citizens. Without the efforts of these people to make a living, it will be the Government who would have the responsibility of looking after their families who are Singapore citizens. These people are members of our society. They share the responsibility of looking after the citizens of Singapore. In a sense, they have made a definite contribution to our country by reducing our social burden. I hope the Government will not neglect this aspect of their contribution, however little it may be. In view of these factors, sympathetic consideration should be given to their applications.

Inche Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi (Kampong Kembangan) (in Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I support the Member for Anson, I merely wish to add a little to what has already been said. During the Japanese Occupation, many people valued their lives more than anything else. As as result, many children born during that period were not registered. They are now unable to obtain citizenship because they are not able to produce sufficient documentary evidence of their birth in Singapore. However, I believe not all of these applications are genuine. There may be one or two applications which are false. Out of a hundred appli-cations, there may perhaps be ten false ones. However, the other 90 genuine applications should not be penalised by the falsity of the 10 applications. They should receive due consideration by the Government. Children born in Singapore, particularly those born during the Japanese Occupation, should be given Singapore citizenship. The lack of a Singapore birth certificate may not be the parents' fault, as in the case of children who were born before the Japanese Occupation or even after the Japanese Occupation.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: (In Mandarin): I support the Member for Anson on his amendment. We all know that laws are man-made. We do not deny that when we have achieved independence, we should make everybody under stand that citizenship confers certain rights and duties. The Government has citizenship laws which are applicable to all the people. Everybody living in the state knows what his rights and duties are. When the citizens have been given their rights, they should know how to carry out their duties towards the country.

At present, there is a doubt among many people regarding the laws of citizenship. Take, for instance, the definition of "citizenship". Many people have stayed in Singapore for many years. Yet they are not able to get their citizenship. They are at a loss to understand why this is so. Some people who have just come to Singapore from abroad have acquired citizenship. Yet many people who have stayed in Singa pore for more than ten years are still unable to get their citizenship. What is the reason? How can you explain this? The definition of "citizenship" is rather vague. The implementation of the citizenship policy has, therefore, given rise to some uncertainty. Capitalists coming from abroad and investing 250,000 here can obtain citizenship in a very short time. Yet many of our people who were born here and have stayed in Singapore for many years could not gel their citizenship. This has caused us Members of Parliament some trouble. When we meet these people, they say. "I sent in my application for citizenship three or four years ago and I have not received any reply from the Citizenship Registry." In some cases they have waited for five years without any reply. Being Members of Parliament, we have to tell them that we will bring them to the officer concerned and see what we can do. But, according to the complaints we have received, nothing happens in the end in spite of the necessary interviews. One or two weeks after the interview, they would receive a letter to the effect that their applications had been turned clown. They finally blamed the Members of Parliament. They would say that if they had not sought the help of Members of Parlia ment, nothing would have happened. Now that they had asked for our help, their applications had been turned down or rejected by the Citizenship Registry. So we have become the scapegoats.

[Mr Lim Cheng Lock temporarily in the Chair]

3.55 p.m.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: I have explained my points very briefly. I have touched upon some aspects of the problem of citizenship. Citizens are important components of an independent country. Many people are put in a difficult position because of the present Government policy. As has been said by the Member for Anson, many people who have been affected by the circumstances explained earlier have not been able to get their applications for citizenship approved. We should take steps to consider their cases. Unless we expedite the processing of applications for approval, we will be blamed by the people all the time. I suggest we set up an advisory committee to look into all these cases. The duty of the Registrar is to abide by the instructions of the Minister, According to the Minister, the practice now is that if an application is not approved, there the matter rests. Some people may have sufficient qualifications in their applications to deserve favourable consideration. There are many people who are related to some of our local people. For instance, a husband may be a Singapore citizen but the wife is not, or it may be the other way round. When the wife is a citizen, she may not apply to the Registry of Citizenship for her husband's citizenship. But at the moment the husband can apply for the wife's citizenship within a certain period of time of her stay here, Some members of their families are doing nothing at home. They are depending only on air and water to survive! We must not take the view that because the law provides for such a line of action, we must act accordingly. These are matters which require our sympathetic consideration.

I would suggest again the setting up of an advisory committee comprising Government representatives and some Members of Parliament. This committee can investigate into cases which have been pending for a long time. If certain applications merit consideration, this advisory committee can make recom mendations to the Minister for his final decision. In this way we might be able to solve this problem.

Mr Sim Boon Woo (Changi): Sir, for once I am inclined to support the complaints made by the Member for Anson, the Member for Kampong Kembangan, the Member for Tiong Bahru and the Member for Delta who is the only lady Member of this House.

Firstly, I would like to ask the Minister concerned whether anti-national elements and communalists could not be deprived of their citizenship, and, instead, citizenship be granted to persons whose loyalty towards Singapore is not in question and who wish to live in Singapore permanently. Secondly, would the Minister consider the case of children who were born in Singapore after 17th March, 1967, and whose parents are non-Singapore citizens? If these children are not granted citizenship, they will be faced with grave problems in the future. Furthermore, they will also create problems for our society.

4.00 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Sim Boon Woo (Changi): Sir, they are unable to go to school because they are non-citizens. When they grow up, they cannot be employed because they will be issued with blue identity cards and they cannot get public assistance because they are non-citizens. These are the problems that they will face. They have got no alternative but to become secret society members, thieves or even kidnappers and the peace of our country will be at stake. This is our problem and we have to face it.

Sir, if the Minister will give consideration to this matter, perhaps we can be less stringent.

Mr Teong Eng Siong (Sembawang): (In Mandarin): Sir, we have received many complaints from the people on this problem and I would like to inform the Minister of some of their hardships and complaints. [Laughter] This is not a laughing matter. Many applications for citizenship have been rejected without sufficient reasons being given. I can give an example to prove this.

There is a woman who is an owner of a small shop. She has been running this shop for more than 20 years and her sons were born in this country. They have graduated from Nanyang University and are now working as teachers, When this woman applied for citizenship, her application was rejected. According to the Minister, only those people who can make contributions to our economy will have their applications approved. In fact, this woman has made a contribution to our economy. Therefore, her application should be considered and approved by the Minister.

Another example is that of a father whose children are all citizens, except one son who was born outside Singapore. When he applied for citizenship for this son, he was informed that his son was a minor because he had not attained 21 years of age. He submitted the application when his son was 19 years old, but until now the application has not been approved. This is very unreasonable. Therefore, I agree with what the Member for Delta has said that an advisory committee should he set up to help solve the problems of applicants for citizenship.

Mr Lee Teck Him: (In Mandarin): Sir, on the question of citizenship, I feel that very often we have let down the applicants, if a person fails to get citizenship, he will come across many difficulties through no fault of his own. It is not that he is lazy that his applica tion is not approved. I think we are excessively strict in considering applications for citizenship and, because of this, we cause delays. In my view, as there are a large number of applications, we must increase the staff of the Registry of Citizenship. We should also invite the Minister for Labour to see whether the staff at the Registry is working hard or not. This is my request and I hope sympathy will be given to applicants.

Mr Sia Kah Hui: Mr Speaker, Sir, the eloquence of so many Members who spoke on this subject really leaves me in a very difficult situation, But I wish to say something in general, first, because I think a careful study and understanding of the statement given by the Minister in this House on the 21st of May this year might be of some help. I quote from Hansard, Vol. 27, No. 7 dated 21st May, 1968, column 345:

'...the grant of citizenship is a matter of privilege and not of right. A person who has the necessary residential qualifications will not automatically be granted Singapore citizenship.'

The Minister also said:

'In view of the run-down of the British forces and mounting unemployment, the Government has decided not to grant citizenship as freely as in the past. The number of cases that will be approved will now depend upon our economic position. A person who is granted citizenship must be able to make a positive contribution to the economic well-being of Singapore.'

As to the detailed complaints, I will try to answer them as well as I can. The question of deprivation of citizenship of people of bad character and so on should not be taken side by side with the granting of citizenship. I think the two do not belong to the same category. On the one hand, the law provides the necessary machinery to deprive those who are not worthy to be citizens. But it does not necessarily mean that we replace that number with an equal number of people who are of good character.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: Why not?

Mr Sia Kah Hui: As regards children who were born in Singapore on or after 17th March, 1967, to parents who are non-citizens, there is provision for registration. If such parents apply, I am sure consideration will be given.

As to the applicants who claim to be born in Singapore but who do not possess the necessary documentary evidence, I must draw the Member's attention again to the Minister's statement on the 10th July in this House. I quote from Hansard, Volume 27, No.9 dated 10th July, 1968, column 502:

'During the national registration exercise, it was revealed that there were many people who claimed birth in Singapore but who, on further investigation, were found not be born in Singapore. If we do not have some criteria for judging proof of birth in Singapore and if we just relax or ignore the law, qualifications and evidence required to prove citizenship, then having regard to the conditions prevailing around us, we might have thousands of people coming here who were not born in Singapore. They cannot produce birth certificates or any other evidence of their birth in Singapore.'

I think Members may not be aware that during the national re-registration exercise, some 1,050 cases came to light in which the holders of identity cards had used other persons' Singapore birth certificates to claim Singapore birth.

As for the man who marries a Singapore citizen, there is nothing to prevent him from applying for citizenship if he possesses the necessary qualifications tinder the relevant Article of the Con stitution. But again his application will have to be considered on the basis of the policy as enunciated by the Minister.

As regards children born in foreign countries and whose parents are Singapore citizens, they can apply for citizenship if they are under the age of 21 provided that they are residing in Singapore. It is also possible to register a person born outside Singapore as a Singapore citizen by descent if at the time of his birth his father was a citizen of Singapore by birth or by registration.

As to children who were born in Singapore of unknown or unascertainable parentage, it is the practice to regard such children as citizens of Singapore by birth, unless the contrary is proved. So abandoned children would therefore appear to come within the ambit of the law.

In the case of orphans, their guardians can apply to register them as Singapore citizens. Of course, each case will be considered on its own merits.

The question of setting up an advisory board to study rejected cases was also raised by Members. Obviously they are not aware that there is already, under the Citizenship Ordinance, an advisory board in existence. This Board does go through all cases of refusal before the applicants are informed of the result of the application.

The Member for Ulu Pandan says that we need more staff in the Citizenship Registry. I agree with him very much.If only the Minister for Finance can be persuaded to allow more posts to be created! But as for the Minister for Labour visiting the registry, I can assure him that the registry is visited very often not by the Minister because he has got many other duties to perform, but by many other people under him who do that chore.

As for the individual cases quoted by the Member for Sembawang, I do not think it will be fair for me to answer him here, But if he has any particular case on which he thinks we have made a wrong judgment, he can always write to me and I will look into it and advise him accordingly.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary's answer to the case of the non-citizen male who chooses to marry one of our charming citizens is not that neat and simple. It is all right for the male non-citizen who happens to be residing here temporarily. Perhaps he might acquire residential qualification. But there are cases where the male non-citizen is not even allowed to enter the country. He is stuck away in Hong Kong or some other place and he is a very frustrated husband.

An hon. Member: How did he get married?

Mr Rodrigo: I will come to that under a separate subhead. That is what I mean by the absence of co-ordination between the Registry of Marriages and the Immigration Department. This is very interesting confusion. When we have such a case, of course, the unfortunate husband is prejudiced ad infinitum and we do not know when his position will be resolved.

Inche Mohd. Ariff: (In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Parliamentary Secretary mentioned the number of people who used other persons' birth certificates to claim Singapore birth when renewing their identity cards. But he did not mention the number of people who were born in Singapore without any birth certificates, Is the figure of 1,050 the total number of persons born in Singapore without any documentary evidence and whose applications for citizenship have been rejected in spite of their having made applications several years ago? This is a regrettable matter. Sir, children who are born in Singapore but without any proof of their birth here should be given consideration.

4.15 p.m.

Mr Lee Teck Him: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary said that more money will be needed if we are to recruit more staff. How much money do we need? I think it will not be a very large sum. It is a small matter if applications for citizen ship are not granted, but replies to the applications should be given. Many applications were submitted but no replies were given to applicants. These people have approached their Members of Parliament and, on inquiry, the answer given was "Refused". As a result, Members of Parliament get the blame.

If an application for citizenship is rejected, there must at least be the courtesy of a reply to that effect, and the reason given for its rejection. This is the way it should be done, The applicants have been waiting for two, three or five years but all their applications were just put aside.

On one occasion I saw one Mr Teo Kiak Seng and he told me, "Mr Lee, you cannot expect your citizenship to be granted in one year. Some people applied for citizenship in 1963 and ,we have had no time to study their applica tions because of the lack of staff, if you do not believe me, the Minister can investigate the matter." If it is because of lack of staff, then we must do something about it. The Minister alone will not be blamed but the Government will be blamed.

Mr Ho Kah Leong (Jurong): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary, during the course of his reply to the queries on citizenship, said that an advisory board is in existence to review the rejected cases before final decisions are made. I wish to ask about the composition of the Board.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong (Moulmein): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour has drawn the attention of the House to the statement made by the Minister himself on the Government's policy in granting citizenship. I have no quarrel with that policy, but my quarrel is with the application of the policy in respect of certain categories of people resident in Singapore applying for citizenship.

The Member for Anson has outlined a number of categories. There are people who were born in Singapore but, at the time of registration, the parents were faced with certain difficulties to register the birth of their children. There is also a category of people who had resided in Singapore long before the talk of Singapore joining Malaysia. There are also other categories of residents applying for citizenship. The ordinary people who go about their daily lives having to worry about earning a living are the people who will become the victims of a policy that the Government has formulated in the granting of citizenship. The Government is not to be blamed, because it has to worry about its citizens. But my point is that there has got to be a certain degree of laxity in the application of this policy, because the ordinary people find it difficult to understand this contradiction in granting citizenship.

People who come here and are able to invest $250,000 are granted citizenship without any difficulty. The qualification is that they can contribute to the economic well-being of the country. In which country has citizenship been granted on the basis that a person must he able to make an economic contribution to the country? I think the most important point that we must look for in granting citizenship is loyalty. Singapore will be made a laughing stock if it says that the criterion in judging whether a person qualifies for citizenship or not is the ability to contribute towards the economic well-being of the country.

When we talk of citizenship, the first thing that it demands from the person is loyalty. I think the vast majority of those who seek citizenship today are loyal and have considered Singapore their home. It is a surprise to them that the Government does not grant them citizenship. Sir, it is in this respect that we ask the Government to be more humane in the application of this policy. II: is only rational that the Government should have a policy in the granting of citizenship in order not to aggravate the present problem that we have in terms of employment opportunities for citizens who are already flooding the unemploynlent market. It is well and good to have a policy like this. But, at the same time, it is important for the Government to consider other factors in respect of some of the residents who have been staying in Singapore for many, many years. There is also another category of people who were born in Singapore but, because of special circumstances, birth certificates were not obtained for them.

Sir, I would like to ask the Government to consider these points in granting citizenship.

Mr Seah Mui Kok (Bukit Ho Swee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I fully support the views of those Members of Parliament who have spoken on citizenship. We are getting a lot of trouble and headaches from our constituents during the "meet-the-people" sessions on this matter. I think even a large amount of Aspro and aspirin will not cure our headaches.

We are fully aware that there are many unemployed persons in Singapore and therefore jobs should be given to our citizens. But, on the other hand, we must sympathetically consider deserving cases. Of course, they must meet the requirements of the law.

During our "meet-the-people" sessions, the constituents who are seeking citizenship tell us very long stories. We take the trouble to record all the details and then write lengthy letters to the Registrar of Citizens, After going through so much trouble, the reply is just an ordinary acknowledgement card which says the application is under con sideration. Then there will be a long silence - it may be three or six months. After this the person seeking citizenship will he asked to call at the office almost every week. The officer will tell him to be patient and that a reply will be given.

I think the Government must be very realistic on this issue. They must be aware that all Members of Parliament should not be made to look stupid in the eyes of the public. I hope they will carefully review the policy of granting citizenship and lay down guide lines, instead of letting Members of Parliament help these people and in the end we find there is more frustration among the people.

It seems that foreigners who have $250,000 to invest here will be given special consideration in their applications for citizenship, and perhaps citizenship will be granted to them speedily. I think some consideration should be given to the working class as well. I am quite sure, Sir, that in time of war or when war is about to begin, the rich people will be the first to fly or sail away from Singapore. But the working class will definitely -

The Minister for Culture (Mr Jek Yeun Thong) rose -

The Chairman: Order. A point of order is being raised.

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: A point of clarification, Sir.

The Chairman: Are you prepared to give way, Mr Seah?

Mr Seah Mui Kok: Sir, I am not prepared to give way; I would like to complete my sentence, The working class people will definitely remain in times of adversity. During the Japanese occupation of Singapore, many of the rich people flew or sailed away from Singapore. This is a well-known fact. This was reported in the newspapers of that period.

Sir, I would like to make an appeal to the Government to reconsider the policy of granting citizenship and also bear in mind that we do not grant citizenship only to the rich people but also to the working class as well. The working class are the people who will work here and, in time of trouble, I am quite sure they will be with us rather than go away from Singapore.

The Chairman: Mr Jek, would you like to raise your point of clarification now?

Mr Jek Yeun Thong: No.

4.30 p.m.

Mr Rajaratnam: The Members of Parliament who spoke are getting themselves into more and more difficulties. I thought I had better intervene at this stage!

I think the difficulties of Members of Parliament should be the least of our considerations. Most of the Members who spoke have been trying to persuade the Government to change its policies in regard to a very important subject like citizenship, apparently on the ground that it creates difficulties for them and makes them unpopular. I am also a Member of Parliament. I also happen to be the Minister in charge of citizenship and I do get bothered by people who come and tell me that they made applications for citizenship two, three or five years ago. If you are a Member of Parliament, your duty is not to get popular but to enforce the law to see that you do things in the interest of Singapore. 1 sympathise with Members of Parliament who are in difficulties -being one myself - but that should not he the criterion on which we make decisions.

Many Members who spoke got worked up. The Minister for Culture was going to intervene and explain. If he had been allowed to do so, I think hon. Members might not have heard some of the things they heard, especially from the Member for Bukit Ho Swee. First of all, anybody who invests $250,000 in Singapore does not get citizenship. He gets right of permanent residence. So I think all this oratory about, poor people not getting citizenship and rich people getting citizenship is singularly ill-informed. Let me say that when somebody invests $250,000 in Singapore, maybe 10, 20, 30 or 40 Singaporeans get jobs. If any of the hon. Members - especially the trade union Members - suggest that we should stop giving permanent residence, will they say categorically that permanent residence should not be given to people who are prepared to invest $250,000 here and who provide jobs for maybe a few hundred persons? I think the most important point to realise - I reiterate what I have said before - is that, on humanitarian grounds, it is good to give citizenship to everybody who has been here for ten years or who qualifies for citizenship. But for every one who is made a citizen, there are other liabilities. The moment a man becomes a citizen, he is entitled to free education, housing, medical attention, employment, a vote and to social welfare assistance. So every citizen who is granted citizenship is a liability to our society. It means coming back here for money to finance our new citizens who need not have become citizens, I quite sympathise with many of the difficulties that some people are confronted with as a result of our strict enforcement of the citizenship law, but we do so in the interest of the majority. Sometimes the choice is between two unpleasant things and I will, therefore, make the choice in favour of the less unpleasant course.

As regards applications for citizenship that are made and are not acknowledged or answered, I will say that it is a source of hope. The Parliamentary Secretary did say that it may be due to a shortage of staff. But I will say that it is not really due to a shortage of staff. Even if we increase the staff, a lot of applications will still be under consideration, and for a good reason, because if they are under consideration, there is a possibility that when conditions change or when circumstances make it possible for us to allow more people to become citizens, we will do so, lf the applications are rejected, that is that. So, as a matter of policy, many of the applications are kept under consideration, because if between now and the next few years, say, after the withdrawal of the British forces in Singapore, we find that the economic problems associated with the British withdrawal are not as disastrous as they were thought to be, we will be more generous to those people who have made applications for citizenship which have been under consideration for three or four years. But if we give a reply now, that means they are out. So the reason why no decision has been taken on many of the applications is that maybe in three, four or five years' time, it may be possible to grant citizenship to those whom we would be compelled to reject now, if we feel that conditions have improved and we can take them in.

Let me also say, in this connection, that quite a large proportion of applications for citizenship are made by people who could have applied five or six years ago when citizenship was granted more readily. At that time, they kept their options open. Now they have decided. And, therefore, when people now say that they are loyal, yes, many of them may be loyal. But some of them are what I call "rice-eating citizens", because they kept their options open, and they now come and pester some Members of Parliament as the options are now closed. Very often, they have come to me - in fact, too many of them. Many of them come from the Members' constituencies. They make inquiries and they always say this, "But I must have my citizenship now because I cannot get a job." Some of them are of an age when they could have applied for citizenship five or six years ago when things looked a bit dicey for Singapore. Then they kept their options open. Now that things are better, they want U' press for citizenship and the rights that go with it. Therefore, let us not be too sentimental about this picture that is drawn about poor people who can be loyal citizens and who are now enduring hardship. If things are not as good as they are today, I think you will find less demand for citizenship, less pestering of Members of Parliament.

So, first, let me say, if things improve - and I hope we will review this year by year - and we feel that we can give citizenship to those people from whom we now withhold citizenship, we will do so. But I think it will be disastrous if, purely on humanitarian grounds, we open the doors, Though Members of Parliament may be able to satisfy a small minority, the consequences of opening the gate may be such that they will find themselves confronted with other problems of mounting unemployment for citizens who, incidentally, are already voters.

Therefore, though I sympathise with some of the difficulties of Members of Parliament and with some of the hardships undoubtedly created for many non-citizens as a result of our strict enforcement of the citizenship policy, in the long run, it is a matter of balancing the interest of the majority against that of the minority. For the time being, we will have to adhere to and protect the interest of the majority.

Mr Rodrigo and Mr P. Selvadurai rose -

The Chairman: We have had a very full debate on this topic and we must get on.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker, Sir, although replies have been given by the Parliamentary Secretary arid the Minister, and many Backbenchers have spoken on this subject, no concrete decisions have been made. Either we keep the Singapore Citizenship Registry or we abolish it, if we want to have it, we must be able to get somewhere. Every week we are confronted with problems that give us a headache! The Parliamentary Secretary said that the cases of those persons born in Singapore will be considered. But their applications have already been rejected!

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not going to withdraw this amendment. I want a vote.

The Chairman: The Question is,

"That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251."

As many as are of that opinion, say "Aye".

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Aye.

The Chairman: To be contrary, say "No".

Other hon. Members: No.

The Chairman: I think the Noes have it? The Noes have it.

Mr P. Govindaswamy: Mr Speaker,Sir, I want a Division,

The Chairman: It is too late. The hon. Member should have asked for a Division before I said, "The Noes have it," for the second time.

Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon, amendment No. (6)*.

• Amendment (6) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1281

Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon: Sir. I am not moving.

The Chairman: Madam Chan, amendment No. (7)+.

• Amendment (7) reads as follows:

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1351.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3003.

Sir, this subhead refers to "Expenses for Hotel and Catering Training" with a token vote of $10.

In reply to a question on the expansion of the Hotel and Catering Training Centre in this House on the 3rd of December, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour said [Hansard Vol. 28 No. 1, col. 12]:

'The Hotel and Catering Training Centre. . . , will be extended to train more personnel in view of the expansion in the hotel trade.'

I find it difficult to believe that the necessary training can be provided in 1969 with only a token vote of $10. Am I to understand that no additional training will be carried out until more facilities are available?

Mr Sia Kah Hui: Mr Speaker, Sir, the expenditure for constructing, equipping and furnishing the hotel school with the necessary building arrangements for on-the-job training in hotel-style accommodation is provided for in the Development Estimates for next year.

The Member said that the Ordinary Estimates for next year provide for only a token sum of $10. The money required appears in the Development Estimates, But if the need should arise, an application will be made to the Treasury for funds to meet other expenses connected with this project.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Am I to understand that additional training will not take place until the expansion of the building is completed?

Mr Sia Kah Hui: Mr Speaker, Sir, the number of people who can be trained is limited by the facilities that are available.

Mr Lim Cheng Lock: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong ---

(9) That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0601 be reduced by $100.

Madam Chan Choy Siong: I am not moving, Sir.

The sum of $2,646,180 for Head 0601 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

4.45 p.m.

Head 0701 -

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*.

• The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong.

First of all, I would like to congratulate the Minister for Education on having taken steps to reform our system of education, More attention is now being paid to the education of blue-collar workers in order to meet the needs of the industrial development of our country. Seven months have now elapsed since May this year when the policy statement on education was announced at the beginning of this session. On 12th December, when we were debating the Budget for next year, we learnt from the speech of the Minister for Education that his Ministry had prepared well in advance a comprehensive policy on education for the coming years ahead. Thus, many problems will be solved, Many worries which are present in our society will be swept away. The development of education has now reached a new phase. We are now implementing a new policy, a reformation in education, so that the products of our schools will not lind themselves unemployed and can do nothing with what they have learnt after they leave school. Our new education policy will enable our graduates to make a contribution to our society. It is thus a good policy.

The sum to be allocated to the Ministry of Education is about $200 million. This is a very large sum of money and second only to defence expenditure. This large allocation will help to produce more capable men. We will have more people who can perform various tasks and take part in activities which will improve our society. We will thus be able to meet the coming changing situation.

However, our new education policy will give rise to some other matters which need to be considered. And here I would like to give my views for the consideration of the Minister for Education, Firstly, in order to ensure that our school leavers will be absorbed by our rapidly developing industries, the Ministry of Education should maintain close liaison with the industrial sector. In this way, a proper and regular review can be made of the curriculum of our technical and vocational education in order to meet the changing needs of our society. In my view, a permanent agency should be set up in the Ministry of Education, comprising representatives from the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Labour, the Ministry of Finance, and the industrial and commercial sectors in order to look after the workers. This agency will plan and look after the employment pro blems of our school leavers.

Secondly, in promoting technical and vocational education, we must not overlook the cultural aspect of education. Education has two aims, One is cultural and the other social. We must be able to look after both aspects of education at the same time. Overemphasis on technical and vocational education at the expense of the cultural aspect of education will result in the production of human robots in our school leavers. This is certainly against the principle of education. It defeats the purpose of education, for the aim of education is also to make a cultured man.

Thirdly, the present scheme for the training of teachers in technical and vocational subjects is not to be corn-mended. The courses are given on a part-time basis. After the teachers have gone through a hard day's work, they are probably exhausted and by the time they go into the class-rooms for their course, they have no energy left and are in low spirits. In these circumstances, the teachers whom it is hoped to produce instantly will not be able to undertake the responsibility of training the students in technical and vocational subjects. The training courses must be on the same basis as the training courses being conducted by the Economic Development Board. The teachers must be given full-time courses and enough time to go through the theoretical as well as the practical aspects of their training. They must be given opportunities to do practical work in the factories or workshops.

Fourthly, as from next year all male students from Secondary I and Secondary II, as well as 50 per cent of the female students from Secondary I and Secondary II, are required to do three hours' practical work in the workshop. This means that our students will have the opportunity of doing some practical work in their vocational and technical education. However, I have some misgivings about the position of those who have talent in painting, drawing and music. I do not know whether provision will be made to exempt these students from attending such courses. Through such a course, Singapore will in time be able to produce musicians comparable to the talented Fou Ts'ong the well-known Chinese pianist. At the same time, it is my hope also that, in addition to domestic science, female students would be given the opportunity to take up other subjects, such as sewing, typing, book-keeping, etc.

Fifthly, as from next year, students in Secondary I will be given three extra hours for technical training. In my view, the teachers responsible for such training should not be included in the quota allowed for teachers. Otherwise it would greatly increase the teaching load of the teachers. It is possible that the teachers may have to take seven teaching periods a day. This is too much for any efficient teaching to be successful.

Sixthly, as a result of the reforms we are bringing about in secondary education, the study load of our students will definitely increase, not only in terms of subjects but also in terms of learning hours. Consequently, the students will not be able to cope with their subjects. In my view, although they may be required to learn as many subjects as possible, the examination subjects should be reduced so that the study load of the students may be reduced. At the same time, I wish to appeal for the abolition of the Cam bridge School Certificate Examination. It should be replaced by a local examination.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I now wish to go on to a new subject. This is in respect of school inspection. As far as I know, there have been recent appointments made of inspectors of schools. However, in the final analysis, the confirmation of promotion or the extension of service of teachers is handled by the principals themselves. I cannot see the merits of this system. Rather, I see many disadvantages. In the first place, not all principals are properly trained in the School Inspectorate. They are actually outsiders as far as school inspection is concerned. As a result, they are doing a slipshod job. What is even more ridiculous is that some principals who are not conversant in the second language are asked to observe the teaching of the second language. After the observation, they will ask a senior teacher to make a report. This is ridiculous.

The excessive powers given to the principals also give rise to some other effects. Moreover, the duties of school inspection will add to the burden of the principals. As a result, their other duties will have to be performed by some other teachers. And it is usually the senior teachers who have to take on the extra load. The work of school inspection is part and parcel of the education system. It should be done by properly trained people in order to get the desired results, so that the teachers and students will benefit. I hope the Minister will review the present system of school inspection.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the 12th of this month, the Minister for Education made a clear statement that great changes will take place in respect of the teaching of the second language. The result will be that a truly multilingual and multiracial society will emerge from this policy. I hope this policy will succeed. We do need a great many bilingual and multilingual people in our society. This is not only useful in the field of human relationship but is also an advantage in finding employment for our citizens. As the Minister has pointed out, in the past the teaching of the second language was confined to the language itself. All that we tried to do was to increase the teaching time and improve the teaching methods. In his view, this was not enough. I agree with him. We must go beyond the normal teaching hours for the second language and give our children more opportunity to learn it. We have used English as the second language in the teaching of Mathematics and other science subjects. We have used Chinese, Malay or Tamil as the second language in the teaching of Geography and History - subjects which are connected with culture and language. In my view, this policy is praiseworthy. But we must not try to hurry these things in view of the problems still existing in connection with teachers and textbooks. If we try to rush through things before these problems are solved, we will not be able to get the desired result.

The Minister has also noted the possibility of using the second language as a medium of instruction in other subjects. He said that, according to a survey in Primary I, the result shows that the standard of the second language will not be lowered and the teaching of the subject in which the language is used as a medium of instruction will not be lowered. But if he were to make a survey, say, in Secondary I, probably he will not be able to get as good a result.

5.00 p.m.

Sir, since we are trying to build a rugged society, we must place emphasis on extracurricular activities. I fully support this policy. But there are many defects in the present system. As a result, we have not been able to -

The Chairman: Mr Ho, in Committee you are limited to 15 minutes and you have now spoken for 15 minutes. As you have an amendment* to the whole Head, you can speak further when you move that amendment.

• The amendment reads as follows:

That the total sum to be allocated for the Head 0701 be reduced by $100.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Sir, in my view, the vote allocated to the Ministry of Education is substantial and adequate. Even with the increase in defence expenditure amounting to $375 million, the Ministry of Education still ranks second in total expenditure. This means that we are paying equal attention to education and are able to train our youths for various jobs. This is the proper course that we should take.

There are very few countries in Asia which have a high rate of literacy. We have almost wiped out illiteracy amongst our population. In 1960, we switched our attention to technical education and we are also aiming at turning out people who are rugged and patriotic. In this respect, I wish to raise several points.

Firstly, I wish to talk on technical education. Most of the Secondary I and II students will come under the technical education scheme. But, as far as I know, there are not enough teachers who are able to teach technical subjects. I do not know how the Minister for Education proposes to deal with the shortage of technical teachers.

Secondly, some 50 to 60 Government-aided schools in the Chinese stream will be using English as the medium of instruction in Mathematics and science subjects. What arrangements will be made for the teachers required in this respect? Are the existing teachers competent to teach their students in the second language all of a sudden? There may not be any problem for Primary I and II. But from Primary III onwards, I think the teachers should be retrained for the purpose, and such retraining should start immediately so that they will be able to teach the higher classes.

The next point concerns the use of English in the teaching of Mathematics and Science in Chinese Government-aided schools. There is an expected increase in the number of teachers and, because of this, there may be a surplus of teachers in some schools. What will become of this surplus of teachers? Some of them are quite old. Will they be retired prematurely?

Sir, in some aided-schools, the number of students is decreasing, thereby resulting in the transfer of some teachers to other schools. Is there any policy governing such transfers? Is it on the last-come-first-go basis? To my knowledge, this policy is not being followed. The transfers are being done at the dis cretion of the principals who, if they like the faces of some teachers, retain them. Some teachers are transferred because they are not liked by the principals.

Mr Yeoh Ghim Seng (Joo Chiat): Sir, I wish to appeal to the Minister for Education to abolish the Saturday classes for the English stream. As far as I can make out, the school children go to Saturday classes about twice a month for reasons unknown to me. They deserve our sympathy. I cannot somehow get the impression that the children profit in any way by going to Saturday classes. Sending poor children to Saturday classes is an item of considerable expense to poor parents and it is also a waste of time not only to the school children but also to the teachers.

Mr Lee Teck Him: (In Mandarin): Sir,I support the statement of the Member for Jurong when he asked for the abolition of the Senior Cambridge School Certificate Examination and its replacement by our locally-conducted examination. As we are now indepen dent, we should not rely on other countries to conduct examinations for us. Otherwise, what about the Chinese School Certificate Examination? Do we have to rely on Peking for this? If we do not, then we do not have to depend on England to conduct the School Certificate Examination.

The second point concerns our education policy. I have been told that the number of schools to be built next year will be reduced. If less schools are to be built next year, where are we going to accommodate the new students? In my view, we should build more schools next year because the student population is increasing. Actually we have planned to build 17 schools every year - 12 primary schools and five secondary schools. Are we changing this policy?

I am of the opinion that the Minister for Education should instruct the big civic organisations like the huay kuan to start their school building fund campaign. Government should also allot state land to these organisations for the building of schools. For example, we can build more schools in Anson con stituency as there are vacant pieces of land there.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education (Dr Lee Chiaw Meng): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, first, I must thank the various Members for their appreciation of the education policy of the Government as well as their appreciation of the problems that we are facing.

I wish to deal first with the points raised by the Member for Jurong. On the question of technical education, he says that we must keep close contact with the commercial and industrial sectors, In fact, this is what we are doing. At the present moment, we are in the process of setting up an advisory committee on technical and vocational education to consider all the related problems.

As regards the social and cultural aspects of education, the Member for Jurong should not worry because a change in emphasis does not alter the principle of education, We only wish to convert one-third of our students to technical education. The main point in our reform is that our secondary students will have at least eight years of general education in which they must have learnt enough about culture, language, literature, art and some technical subjects. The principle of education is not affected by our emphasis on technical education.

Sir, several Members have raised the question of shortage of technical teachers, According to our Estimates, when the changes are completed by 1970, we require 700 to 800 technical teachers to teach Secondary I and II students, At the present moment, we have about 300 teachers undergoing training. Next year, we propose to introduce the change at Secondary I only. Therefore, we need only half the number of teachers required. So there is no question of any shortage of teachers.

As regards part-time courses for teachers, in my view, this is not a serious problem because the teachers can still cope with the training done on a part-time basis. All along, trainee teachers have been attending lectures on a part-time basis. Yet they have been able to cope with the teaching load as well as extracurricular activities. At the present moment, we have about 80 teachers undergoing full-time training in technical education.

Sir, as regards the changes to be introduced in Secondary I and II, we have given consideration to students who are talented in the fine arts. If students are considered to be talented in the fine arts, they will be exempted from attending three hours per week workshop practice, provided that the teachers are satisfied that the students are gifted in the fine arts.

Reference has been made to the speech of the Minister for Education on the 12th of this month regarding the compulsory attendance of girl students at domestic science classes. Only 50 per cent of the girl students will be affected. I have already said that we need only 800 teachers for technical education. This is only four per cent of the 20,000 teacher population. Therefore, there will be no repercussions. The number of technical teachers re quired for the secondary schools is small because we are not fully implementing the changes at the same time.

5.15 p.m.

On the question of school inspection, I am of the view that principals should have some authority in the methods of teaching. I think they are competent to do this job, because they have been teachers themselves in the past. If there are cases where the work of the principals is slipshod and if further details are supplied, we will investigate.

In his speech earlier the Minister for Education has already made clear the Government's policy on the teaching of the second language. The Ministry of Education is now getting ready to prepare for a two to three-year period of special training in order to enable teachers in the non-English language streams to make the change.

Sir, on the question of text-books, I have to point out that at the present moment, before the changes are implemented, many schools, particularly the Chinese schools, are using English textbooks in Science and Mathematics. So there is no problem about text-books.

I now come to the points raised by the Member for Sembawang. The point concerning technical teachers has already been covered by me when I answered the Member for Jurong. On the question of redundancy of teachers, the Minister for Education has made it very clear that those who are dedicated and can carry out their responsibilities properly will be given special consideration when the question of redundancy arises. Those who are not dedicated teachers may be affected by the redundancy exercise,

As for the decreasing number of students in aided schools, resulting in transfers of teachers, I think the transfers are based on the subjects the teachers are capable of teaching. The principle of "last come, first go" is not strictly adhered to because of the need for subject teachers. If the Member for Sembawang has got any special cases in mind, he can give me further details and I will look into the matter.

I now come to the point raised by the Member for Joo Chiat about half-day classes on Saturdays. Not very long ago Chinese schools had a six-day week. Now, the attendance on Saturdays is required for extramural activities or if there are special circumstances where the principal or the teacher is of the view that special classes are necessary on Saturdays. In this way the burden will not fall mainly on the parents because it is better for the students to attend school rather than roam about the streets.

Two Members have raised the question of abolishing the Senior Cambridge Examination. The Ministry of Education is now actively considering this matter but there are technical problems which cannot be solved overnight. Therefore, we require some more time to consider this matter and I do not think this is the proper time to make a decision yet. We will give an answer when the time comes.

The Member for Ulu Pandan asked what will become of the increasing number of students if fewer schools are being built. I do not think this problem is very serious because of our success in family planning, and therefore our population growth will be less. For example, the enrolment of Primary I students has decreased this year compared with last year.

On the question of contributions by the public to the building of schools, the Ministry of Education will give them all the necessary help and facilities for this purpose.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, you are aware that I have not finished with my speech on education. In view of the explanation given by the Parliamentary Secretary, I am quite satisfied and I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: I think it might be convenient to take the suspension now.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: I will suspend the sitting now and take the Chair again at five minutes past six o'clock;

Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.23 p.m. until 6.05 p.m. Sitting resumed at 6.05 p.m.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head 0701 (contd.) -

The Chairman: Amendment No. (2) . Mr Rodrigo.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005*.

• The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Teong Eng Siong, Mr Tay Boon Too and Mr Sim Boon Woo.

Before I begin making my observations and queries on the vast subject of education under this subhead, let me assure the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary that I am well aware of the complex nature of the subject under their charge and the limitations within which they have to manage it.

The reason why I am concerned with the subject of education is my belief that it will take a new society, a society with radically different responses and reactions, if we are to achieve national security and prosperity in the years ahead. And in the final analysis, it is the content of the education that we provide our young today which will determine their respor~ses and reactions tomorrow.

Perhaps I may add that I am not holding a watching brief for the teaching profession in this Chamber and I do not intend to do so. But I am anxious that our education system succeed.

In the short space of ten years, our education system was adjusted as a result of:

(i) the implementation of the recommendations of the all-Party Report on Chinese Education in 1958;

(ii) the acceptance of Malay as the national language;

(iii) the policy of integration through integrated schools and bilingualism;

(iv) the emphasis on Science and Mathematics;

(v) the implementation of some of the recommendations of the Commission of Enquiry into Vocational and Technical Education in 1961;

(vi) the implementation of a few recommendations by the Lim Tay Boh Commission of Inquiry into Education; and

(vii) the impact of independence which accentuated the need for us to be rugged and to be equipped with all the proper and requisite reflexes which a people who are determined to survive must have.

These changes and adjustments did come rapidly one after the other in the space of ten years. They created many problems' which the administrators had to solve by reason of the rapidity with which these problems came on an ad hoc basis which in turn resulted in more complications. Meanwhile, more schools were built and more children went to schools and more teachers were appointed. So more problems came in a rush which were necessarily dealt with ad hoc.

This rate and extent of expansion virtually caused a bottle-neck in the administration out-channels, and ex plains why the administration perhaps had to call for returns after returns from schools, a telephone relay system had to be set up for rapid information transmission, teachers had to be transferred at an instant's notice and administrative work had to be piled upon the teachers.

But today we have restructured our education system. The restructuring is extensive in scope, involving primary, secondary, technical, tertiary and teacher education which I hope is a final restructuring and is intended to describe in perspective our education system.

So now I say, let the administration in the Ministry stop solving problems on an ad hoc basis. Our pattern of the education system is now set for some permanence. Let problems be solved in the context of the whole system. Let there be a continuous grasp of the system as a whole.

Now that the structure is set, the administration will be able to view the system in comprehension, anticipate complexities and resolve them in co ordination with other ancillary administrative functions and the profession.

This urges me to reiterate the call which I made in the debate on the President's Speech earlier this year. Our education system must contain a research body of sufficient scope to undertake effectively a continuous, thinking on the effects of the present restructuring of the education system.

I agree with the Minister that teachers, must respond to the challenge if we are to make our restructured system succeed. The profession can make a tremendous contribution to the country if its effort is developed into a cohesive teaching power imbued with the aims and purposes of education, as we have restructured it.

To achieve this, the administration should consider two courses of action. First, it should make a statement of these aims and purposes. The priorities in education must be arranged and inculcated in the profession to the extent that they become the basic motivations of its entire teaching effort.

Let the administration carry out the exercise of ensuring that every single teacher and school-head has a precise understanding and appreciation of the' aims and purposes of the new system.

And I say, in the name of education, let this not be done through circulars or other forms of blunted administrative insistence,

Secondly, the teaching profession must be accepted for what it is a profession. At this point in the development of education, the country requires the total and enthusiastic commitment of the teaching profession to the aims and purposes of the system. Let there not be instead a move to squeeze out of the teaching body an effort which is nothing more than a service. Not only will it be insufficient, but it may even be dangerous, because the teaching body is a profession and it is not a service.

Teaching is vocational essentially. If we are agreed that we want our school-leaver to be not only literate, knowledgeable and proficient academically or technically but also educated - and that means imbued with the values of personal and social morality, and nurtured in national obligations and responsibilities - then we want a profession and we want its teaching and we do not want a service with its instructing.

If the teaching profession is gradually forced into the strait-jacket of service form and stamp, the pupils will receive instruction from instructors, when they should be receiving teaching from teachers.

How has our restructured system catered for character education - education in personal and social morality? Is it through the lessons in ethics once or twice a week? I am not convinced that as a form of character education, these lessons in ethics are a~ effective as the teachers' impromptu and spontaneous references to moral principles of personal and social conduct in the course of a lesson, say, in History or Literature.

In my view, character education is the sum total of a teacher's involvement with the personality development of his pupils through his sincere and intelligent exemplification of character in the ordinary living of individuals in a society or nation, his pupils' responses and the management and development of these responses.

6.15 p.m.

We need to attend to this aspect of education especially now when we are going technological in a big way and when opportunities for character education in teaching are nil or much less in a lesson, say, for example, in industrial designing than in history.

At the end of it, our system must produce essentially the homo sapien, the human being with his personal, social and moral responses. Let us not have, in his stead, the techno sapien, if I may be allowed to concoct a term. And I say that the teaching profession can help ensure this by remaining essentially and contributively a teaching profession.

Sir, I will just end by remarking that the reason why this country has succeeded hitherto is not only because of the grey matter content of our leadership in the Cabinet but, more important, because the persons who constitute it have been educated, have been taught and have been imbued with moral principles of personal and social conduct.

It will be a sad day when a new leadership of intelligent and knowledgeable persons but bankrupt of moral education assumes government of the country. For our entire achievements would be dissipated before you could finish saying "Switzerland".

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to raise four points under this item. Firstly, I wish to draw the attention of the House to the complaints of parents who are in receipt of public assistance. Students of these parents were informed not very long ago that they would have to pay half the "Miscellaneous" fees when, in fact, they did not have to do so in the past. The "Miscellaneous" fee was $1 for a primary student and $2 for a secondary student. In the past, children of parents who were in receipt of public assistance were exempted from payment of these fees. As far as I know, these people are very poor and the amount of public assistance given is small. Therefore, they should continue to be exempted from payment of these fees. I hope the Minister will give sympathetic consideration to this matter.

The second point is in respect of the transfers of students which will take place next year. I hope the officials in the Ministry of Education will make proper arrangements for the transfer of students from one school to another. Students should not be posted to schools very far from their homes, otherwise this would result in a greater financial burden on their parents.

Third, I wish to refer to the flag-raising ceremony in the morning and in the afternoon which is being performed in the schools. I have noticed over a period of two years that in some schools the students do not take this ceremony seriously. Probably this is due to the failure of the teachers to explain to the students the significance of the flag-raising ceremony. I hope the Ministry officials will look into this matter.

Fourth, I wonder whether the Minister for Education will consider introducing a uniform of standard pattern for students of primary and secondary schools. A standard uniform will ensure that students from primary schools will not have to make new clothes for school going when they are promoted to secondary school. Otherwise the financial burden on their parents will increase. At the same time, some aesthetic consideration should be given in the design ing of the uniforms. A standard uniform system will solve the problem of what students should wear when they take part in mass drill at the National Day celebration.

Mr Tay Boon Too (Paya Lebar): (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Members who have spoken before me. Whether a modern and developing nation like Singapore will continue to grow strong and healthy depends on whether there is political and economic stability. Singapore's future survival and whether the democratic system will succeed will depend on whether our economic expansion will be fast enough to cope with the rising expectations of our people. We must march forward if Singapore is to survive. Everyone knows that we lack natural resources. Our economic growth, therefore, depends on our talents and the proper utilisation of our natural resources. In other words, our economy depends very much on the human factor. Therefore, the aim of education should be to enhance the quality of our people.

Mr Speaker, Sir, viewed in the context of the situation in Asia, we have achieved some success in our education system. It is now mature and more progressive. However, we must not be complacent We must always be on the look-out for any shortcomings and try to overcome them. If we adopt the correct measures to overcome our shortcomings, I believe the pace in our educational development will be faster.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not want to speak on the overall education policy. I will direct my observations instead to certain short comings which we encounter in trying to implement it. Let us talk about our teachers. At this juncture in our nation building, we need not only a sufficient number of teachers but, what is more important, we need teachers who are dedicated and committed to the task of implementing our education policy. Otherwise Singapore, which depends on its human resources for its survival, will be doomed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, do our teachers have a real respect for their profession? Let me quote an example from the Teachers' Training College. Recently, the T.T.C. Research Unit conducted a survey of the theme, "Why I become a teacher." Among the teachers questioned, about 40 per cent of graduate teachers in the English stream; 68 per cent of graduates in the Chinese stream; 71 per cent of H.S.C, trained teachers (English stream); 69 per cent of H.S.C, trained teachers (Chinese stream); 72 per cent of Secondary IV trained teachers (English stream) and 86 per cent of Secondary IV trained teachers (Chinese stream) have really committed themselves to their profession. In other words, of all the qualified teachers, there are about 60 per cent of graduate teachers (English stream); 32 per cent of graduate teachers (Chinese stream); 29 per cent of H.S.C, trained teachers (English stream); 31 per cent of H.S.C, trained teachers (Chinese stream); 28 per cent of Secondary IV trained teachers (English stream); 14 per cent of Secondary IV trained teachers (Chinese stream) who regard their present job as a temporary occupation. Teaching is to them a stepping stone to other jobs. If they have a better opportunity, they will quit teaching. We can deduce a very alarming fact from these figures; that is, if a teacher is better qualified, the less dedicated he is to the teaching profession. What is the Education Ministry going to do to arrest this trend? At the same time, I wish to know what the T.T.C, is going to do to overcome this difficulty.

There is another point. The majority of teachers have experienced some frustration in their teaching. Most of them have been taught the latest scientific tnethods of teaching. However, sometimes these methods do not meet with the approval of the inspectors of schools or principals. The reasons are as follows:

(a) The inspectors were not themselves teachers prior to their appointment, nor have they any diploma in education.

(b) Most of the principals were not given any professional training. They did not even keep abreast of the latest trends in education. They run their schools according to their own experience and reputation.

(c) Each and every lecturer has a different opinion of a trainee teacher.

For these reasons, there is a conflict in the approach to teaching between the lecturers and the teachers. The teachers are therefore bewildered. Whenever a teacher wants to try out the latest methods of teaching, he has to consider whether enough facilities are available and also whether he will be allowed the freedom to experiment with the new methods. For example, first, there is the question of arrangement in the classrooms, and, second, the question whether the students have to go out of the classrooms or out of the school for extra-curricular activities.

6.30 p.m.

Thirdly, whether there are enough books for pupils to do self-study.

Therefore, in order to allay these doubts and fears, I believe there should be greater co-ordination and co-operation among lecturers, principals, inspectors of schools and teachers. To achieve this, more seminars, lectures and discussions should be held.

I will now speak on the problem of teachers in aided-schools who want to extend their service after retirement. At the moment, the Ministry of Education considers applications on four criteria:

(a) the physical condition of the teacher concerned;

(b) his teaching ability;

(c) his financial situation; and

(d) his record of social service.

I agree entirely with this approach. But I do not agree with the method of their implementation because there are many faults. As regards the teacher's teaching ability, the discretion is entirely with the principal and the inspector of schools. They do not know the teacher well. If the inspector of schools decides on the applicant's teaching ability after one or two inspections, this may lead to a dangerous position of a blind man sizing up the picture of an elephant. Moreover, principals have their own personal feelings, whether good or bad, towards certain teachers and they may not always be right. In this way, there may be prejudice against the teachers. This system of allowing inspectors of schools and principals to judge the teaching ability of teachers is not good and may lead to unfair decisions on the teachers concerned. I suggest that a committee be set up to deal with the question of extending the service of retired teachers.

My next point deals with textbooks. Sir, we all know that before 1960, our schools did not have a common curriculum. The schools had their own choice of textbooks with an inclination towards books from foreign countries. Because of this, students in the various schools adopted different cultural values. Since 1960, when the common curriculum was formulated, schools of all streams have been making use of the same curriculum and have been inculcating in our youths a sense of national consciousness. But so far we have not achieved much in this direction, although the common curriculum has been in existence for eight years. This is because many textbooks are not available and many of our schools are using textbooks the supply of which is dependent on overseas publishers. Therefore, how can the contents of these textbooks suit our local situation and requirements? I dare say that most of the publishers and authors of textbooks are the first generation Chinese from China or refugees from Hong Kong. They get very low pay.

The Chairman: Order. Mr Tay, you have spoken for 15 minutes. I am afraid I have to stop you here.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Sir, I am about to finish my speech.

The Chairman: Mr Tay, even if I wanted to give you additional time, the House would have to pass a resolution to exempt you from Standing Orders. My spirit is willing but my hands are tied by Standing Orders! Mr Sim Boon Woo.

Mr Sim Boon Woo: I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, earlier on I was talking about extracurricular activities. I agree very much with the Government's policy on extracurricular activities. But at present there are many faults in the implementation of the policy and, as a result, the objectives cannot be achieved. Firstly, the teachers in charge of extra curricular activities are not experienced and are unable to demonstrate the correct techniques. As a result, the students are not keen on these activities. Because marks are awarded for extracurricular activities, they have to participate in them in order to gain more marks whether they like it or not.

Secondly, some extracurricular activities take up three or four periods a week and normal lessons are therefore disturbed. Some extracurricular activities are concerned with taking part in public performances. As a result, teaching hours are used up in the train ing of these activities. Just because the students want to get some extra marks, they have to sacrifice their normal study lessons. Sir, do you think that extracurricular activities of this kind are good for the students? Students very often take part in national parades, youth festivals and other public performances. I feel that the Minister for Education should look into this problem.

Sir, the Adult Education Board has achieved results in providing adults with supplementary education. The Board will have greater responsibilities in the coming years. Besides providing classes for students who have failed the Primary School Leaving Examination, the Board is also providing evening classes to over-aged students. This is very good. But I feel the Ministry of Education should take the responsibility of super vising the activities of the Board. For instance, there have been shortcomings in the Board in the past owing to lack of supervision. Some teachers are assist ing students by paying for their fees and thereby inducing them to stay on in order to make up the required number of students for one class. In this way, they will be paid by the Adult Education Board and thus recover the money that they have spent on the students.

We know that the Ministry of Education will be moving to a new building. I hope that, in future, the efficiency of the Ministry will be improved. In the past, perhaps it was because the offices were housed in separate buildings that the efficiency of the Ministry was low. For instance, a certain teacher organisation wrote to the Ministry requesting for per mission to hold a table tennis tournament during a particular term. But there was a long delay and the reply was only given when the term was about to end. So the tournament had to be cancelled. I hope the inefficiency in administration will not recur when the new building is occupied.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Mr Speaker, Sir, the development of education in Singapore in quantitative and qualitative terms has been impressive and signi ficant. But, unfortunately, the people of Singapore have not noticed it. Educationists who have come to Singapore and seen how the education system works have often marvelled at some of our achievements. Take, for example, integration, bilingualism and trilingualism in our schools. These are aspects of our educational achievements which have impressed many of the foreign educationists. They have also been impressed by the fact that we are able to achieve all this within the short space of one decade or so.

Those of us who were present at the Youth Festival this year and watched the performance of the youths at the youth rally and the Youth Festival of Drama and Music must admit that a great deal has been achieved in education.

As I said, all these achievements have been conveniently forgotten by the people and also by some Members of this House. What stands out very clearly in their minds is the failings of teachers. There must always be black sheep in every profession. The headlines they make in the papers are very vivid in the minds of the people of Singapore. The people have not recognised the fact that these achievements and the development in education must necessarily bring about a lot of attendant problems which will only be solved with the passage of time. These problems are unavoidable and are sometimes due to the failings of certain teachers.

6.45p.m.

If we keep on harping on all these failings and criticising these teachers both inside and outside this House, I think we will have a very demoralised teaching profession - not an inspired one. A demoralised teaching profession will not be able to play the role that we expect of them and, in Singapore, we sometimes expect the moon.

I will give a few examples of the contributions that the teachers have made in response to the call of nation building. Some time in 1960, the Government wanted to introduce Malay as the National Language and bilingualism and trilingualism in schools. Many of the teachers were not able to speak Malay at that time, and when asked to attend the Teachers' Training College in order to acquire a knowledge of Malay at Standard I and II level, the response was so tremendous that even the Teachers' Training College and the Ministry of Education were not able to organise enough classes for them. This situation would not have arisen if the teachers had not risen to the occasion.

We have recently heard of the slogan of building a rugged society. The number of extramural activities going on in the schools nowadays sometimes frightens the parents. They complain that their children have no time for their studies. We have observed the results of these extramural activities in the performance of the students during the Youth Rally and the Festival of Drama and Music.

Over and above all this, the teachers are asked to do unprofessional work. The Member for Serangoon Gardens has underlined a very important point which we have to remember, and that is, we have to recognise teaching as a profession. If the teachers are to achieve professional standards in their teaching, certain duties which are non-professional should not be added to their load of professional duties. Common sense tells us that if you have that situation, then the efforts of the teachers in the field of professional work will be diluted. Teachers are also human beings and they can only take up the load to a certain extent, not more than that.

The Member for Serangoon Gardens has mentioned a few examples of the non-professional work that principals and teachers are asked to do. One of them is the filling of survey forms and all kinds of returns. This work is not done during free periods but during teaching hours, and therefore lessons must necessarily be interrupted. Principals are sometimes asked to act as audit clerks. I realise this is not entirely the fault of the Ministry of Education, because they have their limitations and, with a standstill budget, they cannot employ additional clerks. But the blame should not be on the principals and teachers. When they are not proficient in their professional work, it is because they are given this additional load of unprofessional work.

The Ministry of Education has recently come out with the idea of forming advisory committees in schools. I think this is a very splendid idea, because schools should be allowed to use their initiative to get additional finance in order to increase their efforts in promoting extramural activities and equipping their libraries and so forth. Unfortunately, a sound idea is sometimes badly carried out. Principals of all Government schools - the aided schools already have their management committees comprising civic-minded citizens who have the interest of education at heart - are asked to form advisory committees. To make it easy for Members to follow me, I will take 200 schools as the number. Each advisory committee will comprise 15 members and the principals are asked, in the first instance, to set up their advisory committees within one month. I was wondering how the principals of these 200 schools would be able to find 3,000 persons - there are 15 members in one advisory committee - within one month to serve on them. The main function of the committee is to contribute and raise money, and another function is to look after the interests of the schools. The task of the principals to get this number of persons within one month is beyond most of them. In the first place, how do we suddenly find 3,000 citizens within one month or six months, who are civic-minded and with the interest of education at heart, to serve on the advisory committees and to raise and contribute money? The result is that if the principals do not form the committees in time, the blame will be put on them because they are not up to the mark. These are some of the problems that I am able to list for the moment. I can go on listing other problems which the principals and teachers have to face.

It is true that there are bad principals, and bad teachers, but this fact must be, looked at against the perspective of the vast majority of teachers who are willing to play their role. I will not say that the vast majority of the teachers are truly dedicated. There are also those who, though not that dedicated,. are willing to rise to the occasion and play their role effectively. My point is that we will not get this response from the teaching profession if we continue to criticise the failings of a few and let these criticisms dominate everything, while we forget the good which the teaching profession has done.

It must also be recognised that how well our young citizens will shape up does not depend only on our teachers alone. I think the teachers spend about five hours with their students and perhaps one or two hours during extramural activities. There are also the other hours where the children are at home and it is the parent's concern to teach their children moral and social values. Therefore, the parents' role is as essential as, if not more essential than, the role of teachers. Much as we blame the teaching profession for some shortcomings, there are certain parents who should also be blamed, for the only concern they show for their children's education is whether they can pass the Primary School Leaving Examination and whether or not they should employ private tutors to give them additional tuition. The vast majority of parents, cannot afford to engage private tutors. They probably have their citizenship or other problems to worry about.

The Chairman: Order. Mr Sia, I think you have just gone beyond 15 minutes.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir.

The Minister for Education (Mr Ong Pang Boon): Mr Speaker, Sir, much of the criticisms against the Ministry of Education can be attributed to the rapid and vast expansion in the field of education over the last 10 years. I think Members are aware that the school enrolment has almost doubled since 1960. There has been no corresponding expansion in the administrative personnel in the Education Ministry and a considerable backlog of administrative work has accumulated. This has led to various criticisms of inefficiency, the lateness in giving decisions and so forth.

The Member for Serangoon Gardens has pointed out that within a short space of eight years there have been so many changes in the educational system that many of the teachers are not able to understand the various changes and grasp the aims and purposes of such changes. No sooner have commissions and committees been appointed to look into the educational system and no sooner has one report by a commission been completed than it is overtaken by events. However, from now onwards we can expect a period of consolidation because, as Members are aware, money is not easily available in future for expansion in the educational field. Given this respite, we may be able to bring much of the administrative work up to date and innovate various improvements.

Members will notice that although there is a restructuring of the educational system, it is not so much a radical change of the policy as a change in emphasis. I cannot agree more with the Member for Serangoon Gardens that our teachers must be informed of the aims and purposes of the changes in emphasis, and, towards this end, the Ministry will do all that is possible to bring the teachers up to date on this matter.

7.00 p.m.

Mention has been made of the need for a research unit to study the effects of the various changes in the education system. I agree that although we have at the moment a research unit in the Ministry, not much research has been carried out, because of the shortage of qualified personnel, particularly on the subject of the possible effects of the various changes in our education system.

The Member for Serangoon Gardens expressed his anxiety that in our eagerness to produce a sufficient number of technicians and craftsmen to meet the needs of our industries, we might be producing a lot of what he termed techno sapiens instead of homo sapiens. Sir, I cannot agree more with him that this is a problem that is causing me sleepless nights, because very few people have given thought to it. Unlike other matters, the effects of changes in our education system can only be seen after a number of years. However, we did get advice from various experts on these changes in our education system. It is hoped that we will produce educated homo sapiens and not techno sapiens.

The Member for Sembawang raised the question of payment of "Miscellaneous" fees by pupils whose parents are in receipt of public assistance. Prior to the third school-term this year, pupils in Government and Government-aided schools were required to pay terminal fees which varied in amount according to the type of school and the course of study, and ranged from $1 per term in island primary schools to $6 per term in secondary schools. Poor pupils were exempted from payment of these fees on the recommendations of their principals. But with effect from the third school-term this year, the terminal fee was replaced by a "Miscellaneous" fee of $1 per month in primary schools and $2 per month in secondary schools. As the "Miscellaneous" fee will be collected in small monthly instalments rather than in large terminal ones, the burden on the parents will be negligible and, therefore, no exemption or waiver on grounds of hardship may be considered. The Member for Sembawang should know that the "Miscellaneous" fees are intended to meet part of the cost of expendable materials connected with sports, libraries, Science, Domestic Science, Arts and Crafts, and also extracurricular activities in keeping with the Government policy of intensifying such activities in our schools. In view of the financial stringency, it is not possible to grant exemptions to such cases.

The Ministry has always tried, as far as possible, to post students to schools nearest their homes. But I think the Member for Sembawang should know that over the last five years, there has been a considerable shift in population in Singapore. Many housing estates have been developed, and, as a result, there have been shortages of school places in these new housing estates. But overall, there are enough places in schools in Singapore. The question is one of distance because the school buildings are permanent structures on the ground and they cannot be shifted about to suit the convenience of the parents. While we try our best to post students to schools nearest their homes, it is not always possible to do so.

The Member for Paya Lebar referred to the production of textbooks by local experts. I am quite sure he is well aware that since the introduction of a common curriculum in schools, we have been encouraging our local publishers to publish books in conformity with this school curriculum. I think the response has been satisfactory, although it is true that a number of these textbooks were edited by people who came from China and by refugees from Hong Kong. But, by and large, I think a considerable number of books, parti cularly English books, have been produced locally. Nevertheless, steps have also been taken by the Ministry to publish textbooks in certain subject areas where special needs have to be met. For example, three series of textbooks are being published by the Ministry. A series of textbooks on civics for secondary classes have already been published by the Educational Publication Bureau of the Ministry of Education. The publication of a similar series for the pre-university level will soon follow. Other series in the course of preparation include a series of History textbooks and a series of Chinese Language Readers for primary schools.

Reference was also made that many of the trained teachers and many of those undergoing training now are not motivated by the high ideals of the teaching profession. Mr Speaker, Sir, the situation described may have resulted from the large number of trainees recruited in the past to meet the shortage of teachers. The situation now is quite different. With large numbers of well-qualified applications for a limited number of teaching jobs and with better methods of selection, I think we can expect a more dedicated crop of teachers in future.

The Member for Paya Lebar also touched on the basis of granting extension of service to teachers. Since June 1968, the work of teachers applying for extension of service is initially inspected and assessed by the principal of the school to which the teacher is attached. It is followed up by an independent inspection and assessment by a principal of another school nominated by the Ministry. Where the views of one principal differ from the other, a third inspection is made by the Inspectorate Division of this Ministry. Since the work of a teacher is inspected by more than one officer, the possibility of personal factors coming into play is considerably reduced.

The Chairman: Mr Ong, I am afraid you have reached your 15 minutes. I will find out if there are any other points that Members wish to raise.

Mr Teong Eng Siong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has left two points unanswered: first, with regard to the flag-raising ceremony and, second, with regard to school uniforms.

I hope the Minister will reply to these points.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I thank you for giving me another opportunity to complete my speech.

My final point refers to the Examinations Division the administration of which should be improved. Generally speaking, the secondary school examinations set by this Division are not ideal. The form and content of the examination questions are extensive. The students are not able to cope with them. Even the teachers themselves are at a loss.

I would also like to touch on the Science examinations in secondary schools. I feel that the Ministry of Education should adopt a more unified method of arranging the Science examinations so that the school teachers do not have to run around to obtain the necessary apparatus for the Science examinations.

7.15 p.m.

The practical examination in science subjects should also be under unified control. The Ministry of Education should set up a laboratory where examination questions on practical science which require experiments could first be tested in the laboratory to ascertain the result, before they are given to the students, otherwise some mistakes may be discovered halfway through the examination. A ridiculous situation would then develop. This is to supplement what I have said just now.

Mr Ho Kah Leong: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not given a reply to my question on extra-curricular activities.

The Chairman: You may get your reply then. Dr Lee.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker. Sir, since my Minister was cut off after 15 minutes, I hope I will have time to answer.

The Chairman: Also for 15 minutes.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: In that case, my Minister's Political Secretary will answer. As the term "extracurricular activities" suggests, students should take part in these activities only outside the normal school hours, except under very special circumstances where they have to be undertaken during school hours. Such occasions are very rare and the principal should get the permission of the Ministry first. If the Member feels that there are any cases he can quote which demand a special investigation by the Ministry, we shall be delighted to have that information.

With regard to the efficiency of the administration, my Minister has already given his reply, and I do not think I should go into that.

The Member for Sembawang also asked why his question about the flag-raising ceremony has not been answered. We have known of instances where during the flag-raising ceremony the discipline was not very well maintained. However, the principals concerned have been warned and advised to rectify the position. In fact, the Ministry is rather concerned about such lack of discipline.

With regard to uniforms, it is not possible to have a standard pattern of school uniform throughout the island. There are many schools which have long traditions, and they would be very reluctant to change the pattern of their uniforms. Some schools have pure white, some white and yellow. I do not think it is really a very serious matter. I think most schools would prefer to keep their own tradition.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as for raised by the Member for the Ministry would not like the failure of the teaching We do not -

Mr Sia Khoon Seong rose -

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng resumed his seat.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: Sir, I did not blame the Ministry for harping on it. I was just commenting on the criticisms that were being levelled at the teachers from within and without this House. I know the Ministry cannot blame the teachers because the Ministry has got to blame itself. I do not hold the Ministry responsible for this. In fact, we are in the same boat. We have to defend ourselves against the unfair criticisms both from within and without this House.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, it would appear then that I need not answer the question, since as the Member for Moulmein says, the profession and the Ministry are in the same boat! Anyway, to those who are dedicated to their profession we always show the carrot, and to those who are not, we show the stick. [Interruption.] Not from the Ministry, as the Member for Moulmein has himself pointed out.

As for teachers being asked to do non-professional work, I think it is very difficult to distinguish professional work from non-professional work for teachers. A teacher does not only teach but he also builds up the personality and character of the students. He may therefore have to do some non-teaching work in order to achieve this aim. If I recall correctly, the Member for Serangoon Gardens did ask a question in this House about the duties of principals some time ago, and this was answered. In teaching, it is also necessary 'to perform certain duties pertaining to the education system as a whole, such as the filling up of forms and the supplying of statistics to the Ministry for the purpose of planning. This is indirectly professional work contributing to the education profession.

As regards school advisory committees, I realise that 200 multiplied by 15 gives 3,000, which is a large number. Mr Speaker, Sir, the principals have been advised to consult the Members of Parliament of their respective constituencies for suitable persons to be on these committees. If they fail to do so, it means that they have little liaison with the Members of Parliament and with the community.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong: They did not approach the M.P.s.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: I am not exactly saying that, Mr Speaker, Sir. But if the principals have not approached M.P.s, of course, I cannot blame the M.P.s. But the principals have been advised to do so. It should not be difficult for the M.P.s, to recommend 15 members of the public to the principals to sit on these committees. In fact, many schools have parents and teachers associations before the new advisory committees were set up. In many instances, it is just a matter of getting the same people to serve on the other committees.

The Member for Paya Lebar has, raised the point about the necessary improvements to be made in the examination questions of the Ministry. Most of the examination questions are set not just by one examiner but by a board of examiners who consider the' examination questions in detail. It is unfortunate that sometimes certain mistakes do occur. But, by and large, an examination is just a means of ascertaining the standard which has been attained by a student. So the question of too wide a syllabus does not arise. We do not want to tell the students, "We are going to ask you this, question. Therefore, you study this question properly." We are trying to test what they know and not what they do not know. The question of limiting the syllabus so that the teachers will know exactly what to set as an examination question is not correct from any educational point of view.

With regard to practical work, I am afraid we cannot institute a centre for' practical work in respect of science' subjects. We have too many centres already. The Member for Paya Lebar will appreciate that most of the examination questions are set by the science teachers themselves ---

Mr Tay Boon Too rose ---

The Chairman: Dr Lee, are you prepared to give way?

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng resumed his seat.

Mr Tay Boon Too: (In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to correct what the Parliamentary Secretary has said. I do not mean that a centre should be set up where all the candidates could' be examined on the practical aspects, of the science subjects. What I meant was that the questions should be tested first before they are put down as examination questions for the students.

Dr Lee Chiaw Meng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I fully understand the Member's question. As I said, the questions are set by teachers who are specialists in their fields. They are graduate specialists teaching their respective .subjects. They have spent two years in the T.T.C, to be trained as teachers. Under the present system, such experiments as are necessary in practical questions are first tried out in the laboratory by those who set the practical side of the examination paper. This is to ensure that the experiments can be carried out. Of course, there may be a few instances where minor defects might arise. Perhaps the teachers, who have had so much train'ing themselves, will be able to answer and carry out the experiments faster than the students they teach. But remedial action is usually taken and such cases have always been reported to the examiners.

Mr Ong Pang Boon: I just want to add one point with regard to the activities of the Adult Education Board. The Member for Jurong has said just now that the activities of the Adult Education Board have not been properly supervised by the Ministry. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is such a body as the Adult Education Board. All the activities organised by it are supervised 'by staff recruited by it. The Ministry does not directly supervise the activities of the Board. Although there might be a few instances of laxity in supervision, I am sure they will be looked into by the Adult Education Board.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Rodrigo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1016.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I seek your leave to range over the subjects that will come under subheads* 1017, 1018, 1019.

• The amendments read as follows:

(4) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1017.

(5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1018.

(6) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1019.

Sir, this subhead concerns inspectors of schools. I think the image of the inspectors of schools is fairly set by now. In some cases it gives rise to a lot of apprehension on the part of the teachers.

[Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair]

7.25 p.m.

Mr Rodrigo: But apart from their functions of inspection of teaching methods, the examination of school accounts and investigation into complaints against teachers and school heads, what are their residual functions, if any? I wonder if these inspectors of schools are expected - or a much more preferable term - required to submit research papers on the problems of education, analysis of problems pertaining to methodology, methods and teaching of special subjects and so on.

If it is part of their duties to so submit treatises, theses and written papers on these problems, what have been their contributions so far?

7.30 p.m.

Sir, I think it would be extremely desirable if the Inspectorate insists that inspectors periodically submit written papers on problems relating to matters of teaching. I think they are the proper persons with the expertise to undertake such a problem. I do not think that their duties should be so mundane and so limited as to go around examining accounts and inspecting the teaching of teachers for bar crossing. etc. I think the Inspectorate can contribute best to education if it instils into the inspectors of schools a sense of careership, because inspectorship is a career. It does not involve isolated services like inspection of teaching, examination of accounts and investigation into complaints. I think there is an attitude, an approach, required of inspectors. This will only be achieved if the duties of inspectors, as I say, are more than just servicing schools and inspection of teaching. It must include a progressive and sustained inquiry into the many and varied problems of education from time to time. If the results of these inquiries are published and distributed among the teaching pro fession, then I think it will go a long way to help and improve the teaching effort of the profession. It certainly will benefit 19,000 teachers and indirectly will benefit half a million school-going children.

Secondly, is the Inspectorate not aware that the teaching in primary schools these days places so much emphasis upon the passing of that infamous examination called the Primary School Leaving Examination that the pupils going to the secondary schools are, in fact, in difficulties when it comes to articulating and composing work in the classroom? I think this is due to the fact that the teachers in the primary schools have focused their efforts purely to get the pupils through the examination. Surely the Inspectorate is aware of this trend and, if it is, what has it been doing? Has it gone round to the schools to try and dilute this trend and to insist on the teaching of skills in composition? I do not mean the classroom subject Composition but composition in speech, composition in thinking, composition in articulating so that when the pupils go to secondary schools, they will not be shocked by the amount of work that requires compository skills in the secondary schools.

Mr Ong Pang Boon: Sir, the specialists and inspectors of schools do submit papers on various aspects of education. Some papers are required for study before decisions are taken and others are submitted as papers for discussion by teachers and principals at various seminars and conferences conducted throughout the year. I agree that the work of specialist inspectors and other inspectors in this respect is not sufficient, as most of their time is taken up with the routine and mundane duties of administration~ inspection of teachers and so forth. It is for this reason that sometime this year we decided to "off load" some of their responsibilities on to the principals by asking the latter to inspect their own teachers and also to assist in inspecting the school accounts. But, as Members have criticised just now, this aspect of the work is really not professional and should not be given to the principals.

There are only about 120 inspectors as against nearly 20,000 school teachers. Merely to inspect the teachers' work would have occupied most of the time that is available to the inspectors. I think it is principally because of this reason that there have not been enough papers on various educational problems submitted by specialist inspectors.

I am not sure how this problem can be tackled, because the routine inspection of teachers is necessary for purposes of crossing the bar, for purposes of promotion, extension of service and so forth. Somebody has to do this aspect of the work. And unless we can get staff from elsewhere to relieve the specialist inspectors of some of their routine duties, I am afraid it is not possible to expect too much paper work from them. However, if financial support is forthcoming in the course of next year, I propose to expand the Research Unit so that it will be able to do research into the many pressing educational problems instead of directing its attention mainly to the compilation of statistics.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1020.

This subhead concerns staff officers, a subject on which the ambit of my debate has been somewhat reduced by the answer given by the Parliamentary Secretary to my question earlier.

However, there are two points that I want to raise. I believe that a directive stands to date requiring the staffing of qualified teachers only in Primaries I and VI and that in between (Primaries II to V), these classes could be staffed with unqualified teachers. I am not saying that my information is factual. I do not know. Perhaps the Minister for Education or his Parliamentary Secretary can enlighten me. That is what I have been given to understand. If that is so, the point that I wish to raise is that the staffing on this basis in primary schools should be looked into, because if we need to staff qualified competent teachers in any school, it is in the primary school. I think if the pupils in the primary schools are somehow mishandled, by the time they reach the secondary classes, they will be so atrophied that they will not have much of a potential as students, in these schools. I think that whatever staffing formula is being applied by the staff officers, it should be such as to ensure that more qualified teachers be staffed in primary schools in view of the fact that the children in Primary schools are in a formative age, and if they are malformed, we are going to get a good deal of maladjustments which would be difficult to reset in the secondary schools. That is one observation which I would like the Minister to consider.

The second observation that I wish to make is in reference to what we call "integrated schools" these days. Sir, perhaps we can do away with the word "integrated". To me, it sounds as though we have a racial problem in Singapore when we name a school inte grated. I do not know whether it is possible to do away with it. My view is that it would not take a lot of thinking to remove the word "integrated". It conveys the impression that we have got a set racial problem. To the tourist who comes to Singapore, especially if he is an American, and who sees the expression "integrated school", he, of course, draws the analogy.

7.45 p.m.

Mr Ong Pang Boon: Sir, I agree with the Member for Serangoon Gardens that the term "integrated" used in the schools is not appropriate. In fact, I do not like this term myself, because "integrated", as translated in Chinese, means "mixed". One does not know what type of school this is. However, the Member for Serangoon Gardens will notice that in all our new schools completed since 1964 when I took over, the term "inte grated" has not been used. But for the old schools which already have this term I have not really brought my mind to bear on whether we should take the word out. Some of the schools have been known by this term for the last eight years and they have become embedded in the parents' minds. I am not sure whether the removal of the word "integrated" will not cause more confusion. Anyway, it is something into which I would like to look myself.

Regarding the staffing of the primary schools, it is our aim that all teachers in primary schools should, as far as possible, be trained. The current position is that 62 per cent of the primary school teachers are trained teachers, 24 per cent are teachers-in-training and 14 per cent are untrained teachers. Even with this 14 per cent of untrained teachers, various in-service courses have been organised with a view to raising the standard of their professional teaching and also to keeping them abreast with current trends in educational development and the modem techniques of teaching. As the primary school enrolment is not expanding and with more teachers being trained in the future to replace the untrained teachers who might be retiring in the course of the years, the situation in our primary schools will be very much improved.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn

The following amendment stood in the name of Mr L. P. Rodrigo -

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1111.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, in view of what the Minister has said on research, I am not moving this amendment.

The Chairman (Mr Yeoh Ghim Seng): Amendment (9) .

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1121.

Sir, in doing so I seek leave to range over the subjects coming under subheads 1131* and 1l32+ since I intend to relate them.

The amendments read as follows:

*(10) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1131.

+((11) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1132.

I note that, on the one hand, we have a Department of Extramural Activities. To my mind, I get the impression that this Department of Extramural Activities will embrace the activities coming under subheads 1131 and 1132, in other words, the activities of the National ,Recreation Centre. Although subheads 1131 and 1132 have to do with inspectors and assistant specialist inspectors (physical education). I understand that their work is, to a large extent, con nected with sports and extramural activities which should come under extramural activities. I do not know what the development has been. Perhaps these two departments have merged. This is a question of form, Sir.

Secondly, I note that the Estimates list out 10 posts of assistant specialist inspectors (physical education), but I understand that eight others have been seconded to the department, and so you have 18 assistant specialist inspectors (physical education). I understand that these 18 inspectors are required to supervise physical education in a great number of schools, involving about half a million pupils and about 20 .000 teachers. I wonder whether, even in the course of a whole year, these assistant specialist inspectors will be able to supervise all the teachers in the schools. Will the Minister consider seconding to this department a greater number of teachers who have been specialising in physical education or extramural acti vities to undertake what is clearly a massive piece of work?

Mr Ong Pang Boon: Sir,I think the Member for Serangoon Gardens is correct in saying that extramural activities will embrace the work done hitherto at the National Recreation Centre which will be abolished with the completion of the Extramural Activities Centre at Farrer Park. The head of extramural activities is responsible for the coordination of the work of the following three sections of extracurricular activities in our schools: the Physical Education Section, the Cadet Corps Section and the Music Section.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

7.51 p.m.

Mr Ong Pang Boon: So far, the Physical Education Section has been run by a specialist inspector with 10 assistant specialist inspectors. As the volume of work has increased with the emphasis on extracurricular activities, we have found it necessary to second eight teachers to this section. I am sure if there is a further need to second more teachers to this section, we will do so.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, before I withdraw my amendment, I notice what may be a misprint in the Estimates. Can I refer the Minister to footnote (v) on page 189 which reads:

'Officers who were in service on or prior to 30-4-58 are on scale: (II-4A) for Pass Degree; (II-13) for Certificate Course and (III-23) for Normal Trained.' I do not know whether the salary scale "(III-23)" is a misprint. I think it should be "(II-23)" because in Appendix L at page 542 I see that the salary scale for Normal Trained teachers is $325-l5A-490/530-20A-690 under Code Number II-23. I wonder if this is a misprint.

The Chairman: Mr Rodrigo, if you compare it with footnote (vii) on page 187 which refers to code (11-23) for Normal Trained teachers, I think footnote (v) on page 189 is clearly a misprint. In any case, we are concerned with the sums of money to be voted.

Mr Rodrigo: That is right, Sir. Other than that, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendments (10) and (11) are not being moved. Amendment (12) , Mr Rodrigo.

Mr Rodrigo: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1153.

However, Sir, I seek your leave to range over the subjects coming under subhead 1158* as well, as I intend to make some observations on principals at large. Recalling my suggestion that the time is opportune for the administration to secure the total commitment of teachers with the aims and purposes of ensuring that we succeed in our new educational system, I would urge the administration to provide opportunities for principals of schools as well to undertake inquiry and research into the educational problems of the country, and those having special reference perhaps to their own school of environment. The principal of the school must, in my opinion, be involved if his staff are to he similarly enthused. But his contribution can certainly be much more than that of school administration only. I am sure that the principals of schools, who are people with vast experience, keen minds and are alive to the innumerable problems of education in the country, will also be the persons who, apart from the inspectors of schools, can contribute to education by keeping their minds alive to the problems of education in the country.

• The amendment reads as follows:

(14) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1158.

8.00 p.m.

The Chairman: Order. It is 8.00 p.m.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Ong Pang Boon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st January, 1969, to 31st March, 1970, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Speaker: So be it.