ORAL ANSWER TO QUESTION NO. 1 THE TEH CHEANG WAN AFFAIR (Public Inquiry)

Mr Chiam See Tong asked the Prime Minister whether he will call a public inquiry to get to the bottom of the Teh Cheang Wan Affair and to make recommendations to prevent further corruption at high places.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government is ready to have a public inquiry into any matter of public interest so that there can be no question of any cover-up. However, before we can frame the terms of reference of a public inquiry, will the Member for Potong Pasir please spell out what he means by "the Teh Cheang Wan Affair"? What are the items or matters or instances of corruption or other wrongdoing which he means by "the Teh Cheang Wan Affair"? In other words, what, besides the two cases of corruption the CPIB has against Teh Cheang Wan, does he want to have inquired into?

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, have I heard the Prime Minister correctly - that he is going to have a public inquiry on the so-called Teh Cheang Wan affair? May I have that assurance first?

The Prime Minister: May I re-read my carefully drafted reply?

"The Government is ready to have a public inquiry into any matter of public interest so that there can be no question of any cover-up."

A public inquiry into any matter of public interest so that there can be no question of any cover-up. Now, in order to frame the terms of reference of a public inquiry, will the Member for Potong Pasir please spell out what he means by "the Teh Cheang Wan Affair"? You must have terms of reference. If I have a term of reference which says, "public inquiry into the Teh Cheang Wan Affair" - what is it about? The CPIB has two charges against Mr Teh Cheang Wan. The Member for Potong Pasir has included these, I presume, in the word "affair", but he includes much more. Spell it out, and we will include it in the terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government is ready to hold a public inquiry into any matter of public interest. May I have the Prime Minister answer whether or not the matters that we are speaking in relation to Mr Teh Cheang Wan are, in fact, of public interest?

The Prime Minister: Of course. I am asking the Member for Potong Pasir to spell out what he means by the phrase, "the Teh Cheang Wan Affair", so that we can frame the terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I certainly must clarify myself that this matter will go before a public inquiry before I come to the terms of reference. So I take it that the Prime Minister agrees that this matter is of public interest. And if he agrees it is of public interest, he is now assuring the House that there will be a public inquiry. Am I correct in the position you have taken? There will be a public inquiry? I will spell out the terms if the Prime Minister says so.

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Potong Pasir is a barrister-at-law. He passed his Bar examinations. Words mean what they are supposed to mean. There are rules of interpretation. In case he has difficulty in conceiving of these words, may I offer him my written script? There can be no public inquiry without terms of reference. I am asking the Member to spell out his terms of reference. You cannot have terms of reference talking about "the Teh Cheang Wan Affair". You can have that in the coffee shops. But we are asking a Judge to investigate into specific defined areas. Define them.

Mr Chiam See Tong: After I have defined the areas, what then? Are we just going on with a question and answer session? Or do we want to have a commission of inquiry?

The Prime Minister: When the area has been defined and if it is a legitimate subject of a public inquiry, there will be one.

Mr Chiam See Tong: We know for a start there was this bribe of $800,000 taken. So it is of public interest and the matter has not really been resolved yet because there are many many unanswered questions. We would like to know the circumstances which led to this bribe. That is a very wide area. What are the circumstances? Then we want to know whether other people were involved in this bribe or maybe any other bribes. The Prime Minister has told the House that no other persons were implicated. Then we read in the papers that there was this contractor who was charged or at least he was under investigation at the moment. Of course, we would want to know the system that is now being employed by the Ministry of National Development in relation to acquisition/alienation of land, tenders and perhaps also its own companies and related companies that do business with the MND. These are of public interest. We go into a public inquiry and if there is enough evidence coming forth, then perhaps the commission could make recommendations to the Government to prevent a repetition of bribery by a very senior Minister. I presume these are enough grounds for a public inquiry.

The Prime Minister: May I suggest that the Member for Potong Pasir puts it down in a form of words. If they can comprise clear-cut terms of reference to a Judge, there will be an inquiry. But let us not wander vaguely over the two charges over $800,000, companies in the Ministry of National Development, tenders. What is the Judge to inquire into? The Member must have some suspicion of wrongdoing. Spell it out.

I can assure the Member that I take him very seriously. I take him more seriously than the former Member for Anson because I assume, and I think I have the right to assume, that he is not out on a vague general smear. He has got substantial grounds for believing that there are areas which deserve to be exposed to the public so that there can be no question of any cover-up. I welcome his intervention. But I warn him, or perhaps I should caution him, that I will meet him all the way, every inch of the way. Because this is the way I have run the Government. First, about the two charges of corruption. Why? In my view, he is completely misconceived. When there is wrongdoing of corruption, one does not have an open inquiry which will prejudice, first, evidence being unearthed; second, accused persons being prejudiced.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have to interrupt. This is Question Time and the Prime Minister goes off again and I suppose the Leader of the House has to suspend Standing Orders. Is he a Member of the House? I am not allowed to make a speech. Is he answering or is he making a long speech? This is Question Time.

The Prime Minister: But I was meeting his question! He has forgotten that he has suggested that amongst the terms of inquiry were the two bribes of $800,000.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Let us have the answers. Don't threaten me.

The Prime Minister: I am not threatening him, Mr Speaker, Sir. I am just telling him that those two items cannot form the subject of a commission of inquiry. Where there are specific instances of corruption, they must be thoroughly and properly investigated in order that charges can be brought and persons punished. One does not have a commission of inquiry because in that way the evidence will vanish. Secondly, accused persons will claim that they have been unfairly prejudiced by the hearings of a public inquiry before their trial. So in these two particular cases, there can be no inquiry because the cases are still being pursued. We can have the inquiry when the cases have been completed through the courts.

I did not say that there was no other wrongdoing. I said "persons who are outside the jurisdiction." There was no other wrongdoing by any other members of the Government in the Ministry or any Government officers in the Ministry of National Development. I chose my words carefully. Now if he has suspicions that there are wrong procedures over tenders or Government companies being mismanaged and milked for funds, draft the terms of reference. There will be a commission of inquiry led by a High Court Judge. The Member can give evidence. He can lead the evidence and produce them. This Government is prepared to meet him all the way.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister himself is a qualified Advocate and he knows that the wrongdoer is now dead. And no criminal court will pursue a matter which has got no witness and the matter ends there as far as the criminal court goes, and he knows that. And he says whether or not we have ---

The Prime Minister: May I ask him to desist before he blunders wildly into more assertions of law which are totally unfounded? Mr Teh Cheang Wan is dead. But he was not the only wrongdoer. A bribe consists of the giver and the taker besides any intermediaries who facilitated either the giving or the taking. That the ultimate taker has died does not mean that there are others who cannot be charged and will be charged. There is one particular person who is now in Macau because we do not have extradition treaty with Macau. But there is no reason why we should throw away the prospect of a prosecution by having this blown in a commission of inquiry and allowing the prosecution to lapse. There is also the case of the contractor who tried to suborn evidence and that will be proceeded with. There is nothing which is embarrassing to the Government which needs to be hidden. The Member will have full access to this data either in a commission of inquiry or in a proper trial. Draft your terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, this is something new that the Prime Minister has brought up. He did not tell us at the last sitting of Parliament that there was another person involved, now hiding in Macau. As far as we know, there was only the giver ---

The Prime Minister: I said, Mr Speaker, Sir, "outside jurisdiction". I am now spelling out that Macau is the place outside jurisdiction.

Mr Chiam See Tong: He says that anything I want, I could have access to. I will take his word for it. I attempted to make a search at the Land Appeals Board but I was denied the two files. The Prime Minister can check that out for himself. Even a Member of Parliament, on a simple thing like access to the appeals file, is not allowed.

The Prime Minister: Appeals file with regard to?

Mr Chiam See Tong: To the land involved at Lim Chu Kang. This is the subject matter of the bribe.

The Prime Minister: This has nothing to do with this question. I can assure him that he will have access to the file, if he wants.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I am only hearing it now.

The Prime Minister: Nobody has heard about your wanting to have access to this file.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Why do you not just inquire at the Registry of the High Court? You will find that I have made an attempt just to make a search for basic data and I was denied. So I think it is appropriate. Of course, if investigations are still going on, well, there is plenty of time. Let the criminal cases carry on to their ultimate end, and we can have a look at that. Because I think it is for the public good that the public not only should ---

The Prime Minister: May I suggest, Mr Speaker, Sir, before the Member blunders into more problems for himself---

Mr Chiam See Tong: Please, I do not blunder.

The Prime Minister: Set out the terms of reference. If they are proper terms of reference, a High Court Judge will be appointed. He can lead evidence before the High Court Judge. Or I am prepared to appoint him as a member of that commission with a High Court Judge. There is nothing which we want to conceal. I cannot go further. I cannot make him the chairman of the commission because he has not shown the degree of perspicacity and acuity which will lead to definitive conclusions. We will be rambling all over Singapore looking for files which have no relevance to the case. But this is a serious offer. Settle the terms of reference. I will be back here at 2.30 pm. He has the lunch hour.

Mr Chiam See Tong rose -

The Prime Minister: Let me finish. I am making him a very serious offer to meet all his suspicions. Settle his terms of reference. A High Court Judge will be appointed. He can present evidence before him. Or if that is too difficult because it does require some work - I did have to do some work before I appeared before the Committee of Privileges to lead evidence - he can sit beside the High Court Judge and he does not have to work. He can just listen and make inquiries from time to time for further files. Nothing will be denied him. I cannot go further. Half-past two.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, what I am saying is, of course, there is already evidence. I am not bringing up a subject which has got nothing in it. In fact, there is already evidence that bribes have been taken by a very trusted senior Minister. Is that not enough evidence to have an inquiry? Does it mean that since the Minister has died everything will be closed and covered up?

The Prime Minister: I have explained that the matter is not closed. There are two prosecutions still pending, one against the contractor who tried to suborn evidence and another against the man in Macau, outside jurisdiction. It is not closed.

Mr Speaker: Order. It is 1.00 pm. I suspend the sitting and will take the Chair again at 2.30 pm.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 1.00 pm until 2.30 pm. Sitting resumed at 2.30 pm