THE TEH CHEANG WAN AFFAIR (Public Inquiry)

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Resumption of supplementary questions.

Mr Speaker: I presume you have finished with your questions, Mr Chiam?

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe the Prime Minister wants the terms of reference for this public inquiry. May I be allowed to speak?

Mr Speaker: Yes. Let us have your terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Yes. I have to say that I did not take the opportunity in this lunch break to draft this. In fact, I had this all the time from this morning. The only thing I did was to photostat a copy of the Inquiry Commissions Act. Apparently section 10 therein does not prevent an Inquiry from being convened despite the fact that there are relevant pending cases, because it says here, under the heading "Use of evidence in civil and criminal proceedings."

'No evidence taken under this Act shall be admissible in any civil or criminal proceedings whatsoever against the person who gave such evidence, except when such person is charged with giving or fabricating false evidence.'

So if the Prime Minister wants to, he could recommend to the President to issue a Commission to investigate on what we were speaking of.

I have here the terms of reference which I had drafted.

"1. To investigate:

(1) on the circumstances which made it possible for the late Minister for National Development to accept the $800,000 bribes.

(2) whether other persons were involved or implicated in giving the $800,000 bribes or other bribes, if any.

(3) The system employed by the Ministry of National Development in (a) acquisition/alienation of land; (b) granting of tenders; (c) its operations of its and related companies.

2. If the Commissioner finds on the evidence that there are shortcomings in the system employed by MND and/or any of its related organizations and companies, it shall receive proposals and make recommendations for their improvement and to prevent further corruption."

I believe these terms of reference are enough to have an inquiry.

The Prime Minister: Can I have a copy?

Mr Chiam See Tong: Unfortunately I scribbled it.

The Prime Minister: We can photostat it.

Mr Speaker: Yes, we can photostat it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I would suggest that if the Prime Minister is ready to have this public inquiry, I think there should be more than one commissioner, preferably three.

The Prime Minister: Can I have a copy?

Mr Speaker: We will get it photostated.

The Prime Minister: Whilst the document is being photostated, speaking from my aural recollection of what was said, he specified the $800,000; any other bribes that might have been taken.

Mr Chiam See Tong: If any.

The Prime Minister: If any. Somebody must lead evidence. I presume he will. Acquisition or alienation of land which arose or which is connected with the two bribes. Then he mentioned tenders and other procedures. What have the tenders got to do with the corruption? Because the tenders have not led to any corruption.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, this is an important area of the MND. They are calling tenders worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I think it is of public interest also, if we are having an inquiry, to look into this area of activity of the MND.

The Prime Minister: As I understand it, it was all in one term of reference - the $800,000, acquisition/ alienation of land, public tenders and one other item. They were all in one branch. He did not say, from my recollection of what was just read, that there was another branch of the terms of reference - to see if there was any possibility of corruption in public tenders. Is that what he is aiming at?

Mr Chiam See Tong: I think one of the very important areas as far as the MND is concerned is the system used by this very important Ministry. And I think the system definitely includes tenders. In fact, one of the key activities of this Ministry is to give out tenders.

The Prime Minister: As I read the document now, it is:

"1. To investigate:

(1) on the circumstances which made it possible for the late Minister for National Development to accept the $800,000 bribes.

(2) whether other persons were involved or implicated in giving the $800,000 bribes or other bribe, if any.

(3) the system employed by the Ministry of National Development in (a) acquisition/alienation of land; (b) granting of tenders; (c) its operations of its and related companies."

"... of its and its other ..."? Has the original been returned to the Member? It does not read grammatically. I cannot make sense out of (c). "Its operations of its and related companies". What does that mean?

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe the Ministry of National Development owns companies which prepare materials to build HDB flats. I believe it owns companies, and I believe there are other companies which are related to the MND. So in one, ownership of companies; in another area, companies that have got relations with the MND. So there are two aspects to that.

The Prime Minister: I suggest he takes a little more time and puts it in coherent language. I am taking this proposition absolutely on face value. There will be a Commission of Inquiry. We will follow these terms of reference if they are relevant; and if they are not relevant, the Commissioner may find that it is not relevant, and he may be out. So I suggest that he sits down and puts his thoughts together.

He is making a serious proposition which we take seriously. He is asking that public expenditure be incurred for three Commissioners to make these investigations of matters of an important public nature. Two of them, the first one concerns the two bribes which are the subject of pending proceedings, either pending in the courts or pending the arrest of certain persons. The others I do not see the connection between tenders and operations of other related companies and the bribes that were given or alleged to have been given. Is he asking the Commission to inquire into the system whether it is possible, whether it invites bribery? What is it? Well, say so. It is your Commission. You are asking for it. Let's investigate. [Interruption] That is not the meaning of the words he has put down. I am prepared to accept his words and gazette them.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, if I heard it correctly, the Prime Minister is willing to hold a public commission, and I am glad to hear that. If he wants to, I could redraft this and put it, in his own words, a better crafted form and present it for the Gazette, as he says.

The Prime Minister: I assume that the Member will lead evidence. Because we have not seen the need for this Inquiry. We have made departmental inquiries to see whether any changes have been made to procedures which might lead to corruption. The new Minister for National Development has been going through all the procedures in the last two months. The Member suspects that there is something. I asssume that he is going to lead the evidence and all the files will be made available to him. Nothing will be denied him. But we are not having this Commission of Inquiry in order that we will com- mission somebody to produce evidence of wrongdoing or possible wrongdoing when we have not found any. So the Member will lead evidence.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, there is already evidence, a hefty sum of $800,000 has been taken. And as far as the other evidence is concerned, it will have to be related to the system employed. And we have already in fact, evidence that strange goings-on have taken place. A piece of land has been acquired and it is the most strange phenomenon because I have done acquisition of land cases that, in fact, the land was returned to the owner. This is indeed very, very strange. So I think there is need for an inquiry into that area.

The Prime Minister: I have already admitted or said I understood him when he said he wanted to inquire about acquisition and alienation of land because that is connected with the bribery. It is manifest from the evidence that have been placed. But he is now going on to say that granting of tenders and its operations of its and related companies. How is that relevant? But I am happy to take it as it is and to gazette it because I will not stop any Inquiry. It will be gazetted. I am just asking him now to decide whether he has really put down what suspicions he has in mind, and he will lead evidence on it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, we are not talking of suspicions. We are talking of actual wrong-doings. He certainly knows that there is already a member of the core contractors who is willing to give a bribe of $1 million. It is no small sum. There must be certainly something behind that. I do not think the least reason we can think of is out of friendship. So I think there is something to be looked at as far as tenders are concerned. There is no doubt about that. If we dig deep enough, we will find the evidence.

The Prime Minister: Will he spell that out? To investigate why a core contractor offered $1 million to suborn a witness and whether it was because the system of tenders gave him an advantage so it was worth his while to offer this $1 million. Spell it out. We will investigate it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I think my terms are good enough.

The Prime Minister: But it is not in the terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: We could look into it because tenders cover every area that is concerned with tenders. I do not think we want to go into details and tie our hands. I think we should really give ourselves some flexibility. I think these terms are sufficient. If the Prime Minister is willing to gazette them, I will give my permission by all means to do so. If there is such a commission, not only I will lead in evidence but I have certainly people who are willing to assist me in that area.

The Prime Minister: I accept the proposition. It may sound bizarre. It is absurd. I should, by way of illustration, by way of not being accused of taking advantage of the somewhat patchy knowledge of commissions of inquiry by the Member for Potong Pasir, that terms of reference are drawn with considerable care and precision. If I may read him the terms of reference for the Commission of Inquiry to investigate the allegations made in this House by the former Member for Anson. There were four limbs:

'AND WHEREAS I am of the opinion that it would be for the public welfare that an inquiry should forthwith be made by the Commissioner so appointed in accordance with the following terms of reference, namely: [That is the whole of the preamble "Whereas I am of the opinion ... namely:]

(a) to investigate the evidence upon which Mr J B Jeyaretnam based his allegation in Parliament on the 10th day of January, 1986 that the executive arm of Government had on at least three occasions ...;

(b) to investigate the evidence upon which Mr J B Jeyaretnam, MP for Anson, based his allegation ...;

(c) to decide if there was any truth in these allegations ...;

(d) if the Commissioner finds, on the evidence, that the transfers were due to or caused by interference by the executive arm ... to receive proposals as to how the existing system and procedure as provided in Article 111 of the Constitution relating to the Legal Service Commission and its duties and functions can be improved.

NOW THEREFORE, I, ... appoint ...'.

I will accept the Member for Potong Pasir's proposition. He wants this gazetted. I will recommend to the President that this brainwave of the Member for Potong Pasir be gazetted. I will warn him that the first question the Commissioner will ask is: what do the terms of reference mean? And he will be the first witness to explain what it means and, as he said, he will lead evidence and he will bring people to bring evidence. So be it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, if there is a technical form in which these words need to be framed, I will certainly look into it and put it into a form that is acceptable for printing. But as far as the substance of this reference goes, it stays. Mr Speaker, Sir, I have to admit that I have never been involved with any drafting of terms of reference for public inquiry. But I could inquire on this point and, if need be, I will draft it in a form which is acceptable under the Inquiry Commissions Act. So I do not think I should be faulted on a technical point.

The Prime Minister: I take it that he has not withdrawn this document.

Mr Chiam See Tong: No, no.

The Prime Minister: And that I have not misunderstood him - he will lead evidence and he will bring others to produce evidence. It is on the record. We can play the video-tape back, if necessary. But I just want to make this quite clear.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to tell the Prime Minister I am on solid ground and I have nothing to fear. I think it is of public interest. I really think so. I do not think it is an attempt to smear the Government. I think there is a majority view that the circumstances which lead to this should be made known. I want to repeat. I do not want to be faulted in law. Sometimes people can be faulted even before they can get off the case.

The Prime Minister: This is not a question of law. This is a question of terms of reference.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Yes.

The Prime Minister: What they are supposed to investigate, and I want to make quite sure that the Member has got what he wants investigated, down in his own words.

Mr Chiam See Tong: I think we are repeating. I have accepted the Prime Minister on these terms but, as I said, I wish to have these terms of reference written out in a form that is accepted under the Inquiry Commissions Act.

The Prime Minister: Yes, we accept it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: That is all I want to say.

The Prime Minister: We accept it.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Thank you.

2.52 pm