MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF SINGAPORE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1989 TO 31ST MARCH, 1990

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [6th Allotted Day].

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

12.44 pm

Head I (cont.) -

Resumption of Debate on Question [21st March, 1989],

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IC 1500 of the Main Estimates." - [Dr Hong Hai.]

Question again proposed.

Dr Wan Soon Bee (Pasir Panjang GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, before the House adjourned yesterday afternoon, I was talking about the hefty diesel tax increase and that the Public Transport Council had only approved a 20-cent taxi fare increase. Therefore, the total burden of this tax increase was borne by the taxi drivers. As such, their income has been drastically reduced and 20,000 taxi drivers and their families are adversely affected.

I was also talking about the importance of taxis as a public mode of transport and that it was the second largest public transport to serve Singaporeans and tourists. Although taxis do provide the comfort and convenience not unlike that of private cars, but taxis are not private transport and therefore they should not be treated like private cars in terms of social cost. Therefore, the question of normalizing the differential treatment of the private cars and the taxis does not arise. I agree with what the Member for Fengshan said during the debate on the Presidential Address - that the diesel tax was introduced mainly for private diesel cars; and therefore it has nothing to do with the taxis which are serving the public as such.

The Government has announced its intention to increase the diesel tax further in November this year and the total amount will be $6,600. After this increase, the operating cost of the taxi drivers will be increased by about $15 a day compared to the pre-November 1988 days. I would also like to point out that come end of this year, the

eastern line of the MRT will be operational. With a full MRT system running, this is expected to impact considerably on the demand for taxis. Taxi drivers will therefore be dealt, a double blow. Are we fair to these cabbies who also contribute to our economy and form a valuable segment of our workforce?

I would also like to highlight the hardship that would be suffered by the taxi driver and his family should he fall ill or his vehicle meets with an accident. The taxi driver would not be able to have earnings for a period of time, and yet somehow he must find additional money to pay for the hefty increase in diesel tax.

For all these reasons, I therefore appeal to the Minister for Communications and Information for greater compassion and understanding on the diesel tax issue. I would urge the Minister to defer the decision to impose the second increase of tax in November and review the situation in consultation with the GPC for Communications and Information and the various taxi organizations.

I would also like to ask the Minister to consider exempting the taxi operators from paying diesel tax during the period when the taxis are in the workshop for repairs and when they scrap their cars in the beginning of the month. The monthly diesel tax works out to be $500-$600 and it is a substantial amount which the taxi drivers have to pay although they may not be using the cars during that period. But if the Minister cannot agree to my requests, perhaps it is time that the Minister consider allowing the taxi organizations to determine their own taxi fares and let market forces determine the supply and demand of taxi transport.

The Chairman: Dr Yeo, guillotine time for this amendment is 1.00 pm.

The Minister for Communications and Information (Dr Yeo Ning Hong): Sir, I will try to go through the answers very quickly.

The Chairman: You have to.

Dr Yeo Ning Hong: The Chairman of the GPC, Dr Hong Hai, asked yesterday whether there are any predetermined targets for the number of passengers that we want to see on our MRT, the number of passengers that we want on buses, cars, taxis, the lot. The answer is no. This is not the way we plan our land transport system. We concentrate on the congestion created, and not on the absolute numbers using each of the different transport modes. But there are planning parameters which the bus companies and the MRTC use for their own internal planning. They are looking at approximately 2.8 million passenger trips per day on buses for the year up to 1995. And approximately 800,000 passenger trips per day on the MRT by the year 1995.

The transport situation is not something that you can predetermine, come up with a number and say this is a number that we want to work to. Because the transport situation is a dynamic situation, dependent very much on the extent of usage which is in turn dependent on the state of the economy. All of us know that when the economy is doing well, more people travel, more people go for outings, for dinners, for visits to the Bird Park, beach and so on. So more trips result.

The flow pattern of our traffic is also very important. You can have the same number of trips made but if the trips are made outside of the CBD, they do not contribute to the congestion within. The Public Works Department looks at the overall flow of traffic throughout the island, in particular at three areas. Firstly, CBD for obvious reasons. This is where the highest concentration of employment is. Secondly, it looks at the flow of traffic through the inner ring roads going through Scotts Road, Patterson Road, and Newton Road. And then the outer roads which is Adam Road/Farrer Road going on to Queensway.

The objective is to try to ensure that the flow of traffic throughout these three key areas does not suffer severe congestion. And if we are able to achieve traffic flow of about 90% of the capacity of the road design, then that would be give us a smooth flow. What is 90% of road capacity in terms of something that we can understand as motorists? 90% means that at a traffic junction, you will have to wait for one or two changes of light. In other words, you will have to meet the red light at most twice. That is roughly 90%. If you get too close to 100% of design capacity, you may have to wait three, four or even more times, more changes of light. With a good system for the distribution of traffic flow throughout the island, we can get closer to the 90% objective.

Sir, the Chairman of GPC also touched upon the issue of privacy if we should move to having an electronic road pricing system. This concern has been expressed on a number of occasions to us. No decision has been taken on the ERP system that would be selected eventually. PWD is at the moment talking with the different manufacturers. Some systems go closer to the idea proposed by Dr Hong Hai which is to use "smart card" technology. Then each time that particular vehicle goes past the checkpoint, a certain sum of money is deducted. The technology is fairly complex. It has not completely stabilized yet. We do not know whether it is applicable to our circumstances. Other systems use simpler "read only" technology, which means that each time you go past, the detector reads the passage of a particular vehicle. We will look into the details bearing in mind Dr Hong's comments. However, I want to mention that even if the read only technology is adopted rather than the "smart card" technology the question of privacy will still not be a serious one. Because the computer is not interested in who is in the car. The computer is only interested in whether a particular car has gone past and how much money has got to be deducted from the account holder.

Sir, I move on very quickly to the comments made by the Member for Aljunied GRC, Encik Wan Hussin. I thank him for bringing to our attention the traffic situation in Kampong Ubi. I shall ask SBS to look into the details as to why the bus turned left instead of turning right when there is supposed to be more people on the right.

Sir, Dr Low raised the question of whether we should be moving towards lead-free petrol. I believe this subject was raised earlier on with the Minister for the Environment. I have ascertained from the Ministry of the Environment that the present low level of lead in petrol is very satisfactory. It is the same as that used in many developed countries.

As for noise pollution, the MCI is looking at the problem and ensuring that we keep up with the latest requirements worldwide, ensuring that our vehicles are as quiet as present technology. And this we will continue to do.

Now I come to take up a number of questions raised by a large number of MPs on the question of taxi fares. The Member for Tanglin and the Member for Pasir Panjang GRC, Mr Lew and Dr Wan, have spoken very eloquently on the need to lower the diesel tax. They said that the diesel tax is too high. Dr Wan, together with Dr Beng, have gone further and said that the diesel tax is not relevant, that there is no anomaly. Sir, with your permission, I would like to circulate copies of a table (Cols. 739 - 740) to Members. [Copies of Table circulated to Members]. table - ANOMALIES IN TAXES FOR TAXIS AND CARS (Cols. 739 - 740)

Sir, the table gives a list of the anomalies in taxes for taxis and cars. A taxi is a car with four wheels just like an ordinary car. It may be painted blue and carries the label "NTUC Comfort" or it may be painted white and red and carries the label "Singapore Commuters Ltd". But a taxi is a car. And because a taxi is a car, it it contributes the same degree of congestion.

Members can look at the table that I have just circulated and they will see that the duty on petrol is 50 cents per litre. The duty on diesel is 8.8 cents. There is a factor of approximately six times. The duty on petrol is approximately six times that of diesel. And the $6,600 is just a simple attempt to correct that anomaly. Going down the table, Sir, you will notice that the road tax for taxis is only $1,100, relative to the equivalent road tax for a 2-litre car of $2,100. So there is another area of discrepancy. Further down, if you look at the PARF payable, if a taxi were to be scrapped for a new taxi and if the scrapped taxi is less than five years old, there is no payment of ARF at all for the purchase of the new taxi. If the old taxi is less than six years old, there is only a $2,000 PARF, and if the taxi is less than seven years, it is $5,000. Compare that for the cars and we see another very large discrepancy.

Sir, these are the anomalies that are in our present system. So the diesel tax just goes a small way in correcting that anomaly. The Government has decided to liberalize the taxi industry to permit market forces to determine the number of taxis on the road. The number of

taxis on the road is determined by the taxi operators: NTUC Comfort, SCL and the other taxi operators. Taxi demand? That we leave to the market to decide. Taxi fare should be determined by taxi operators and not by the Government. Indeed, we have moved in that direction already, except that when we have built in as a safeguard the Public Transport Council which, Members will remember, was proposed by the former Government Parliamentary Committee on Communications and Information.

The Chairman: Order. It is guillotine time.

Dr Hong Hai: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment (5), Encik Yatiman.

Encik Yatiman Yusof: I am not moving, Sir.

The Chairman: Amendment (6), Dr Hong Hai. We have seven minutes.

Dr Hong Hai (Bedok GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IE 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the problem of our information programmes in Singapore is not that there are not enough news programmes or programmes of information and educational value. The problem is how to make them interesting enough so that people actually watch them and do not switch off.

Sir, I was going to talk in general about this subject except that yesterday when the hon. Minister of State for Communications and Information responded to my suggestion on morning television, I was a little disappointed with the answer. The response to my suggestion was that the Ministry did not consider this to be a priority area at this time and had other more important things to look at. I feel that this answer is not entirely satisfactory and therefore I would like to now focus on this question a little more.

One of the problems with our information and educational programmes, as I said, is that it is sometimes presented in a way that does not excite the interest of the audience. It is a difficult process to make the educational and information process interesting. This is why when my GPC thought about morning television, we felt that this might be a good way in which to marry the two objectives of SBC, the objective of informing and educating on the one hand and of entertaining on the other. The experience of television in the United States and in Hong Kong, as I have pointed out, is that morning programmes that are able to combine news, current affairs, discussions, talk shows, in a punchy and effective way are commercially very successful and draw large audiences. Hong Kong, in particular, has found this to be very effective and very profitable and a great commercial success. In view of this, I was a little troubled that SBC does not consider this to be a priority area. I would like to ask the Minister of State to explain or give a compelling reason why in view of what can be achieved with such a programme, that is, marrying the two objectives of educating, informing and entertainment, why this is not given priority and whether SBC would like to re-think this subject.

The Minister of State for Communications and Information (Mr Mah Bow Tan): Mr Chairman, Sir, I thank the GPC Chairman for his comments. Unfortunately, since yesterday nothing has changed. SBC has not had any new information that would cause me to change my reply. However, before the GPC Chairman becomes even more disappointed, may I reassure him that in my answer yesterday I did not say that SBC is not going to do it but that it is not a priority item. In other words, the door is not closed to morning television programme. I think we can look forward to a programme of this nature which combines both educational elements as well as entertainment elements in a very well packaged manner. But unfortunately, given the resources that SBC has at its disposal at the moment, there are really other much more pressing things to do. I repeat though that the idea of packaging programmes which fulfill its objective of entertaining as well as informing, that SBC is fully in agreement with the Member. The question is how to do it, what are the resources available - in that sense I do not think the Member should be that disappointed with my reply.

Dr Hong Hai: Sir, I do not mean to press the issue, but my question is, why is it not a priority item? My question is not why you do not do it today or right away? My question is, why do you regard it as not a priority item? In view of the substantial impact it could have in furthering the cause of making information interesting, why is it not a priority item? What are the other priorities that are so pressing that this has to be put aside for the moment?

Mr Mah Bow Tan: If I may, Sir, I think the Member is correct in saying that SBC should look at these programmes. Why is it not a priority item? It is very simple. Because at the moment it is gearing up for further improving its new services in the evening where the viewership is much higher. In fact, it has had to consolidate its resources. I think Members may have realized that SBC actually had to discontinue its late news programme. In order to provide a higher level of service, SBC had, in fact, extended the news and went into a late news programme on a trial basis. That really shows that SBC has the intention of improving its news programme. But unfortunately, things did not work out. The resources that were committed to the late news programme were found to be not commensurate with the viewership. So as a result of that the late news items were discontinued.

The question is whether morning television will be a success. The Member has cited the experience of Hong Kong and America and other countries. SBC is aware of these programmes and the peculiarities of the marketplace there. It is not unmindful of what it is capable of doing and what the audience in Singapore is interested in. It has looked at these issues. The situation is that at the moment the interest is not enough to sustain a morning television programme. But given the resources that it has at the moment and, in fact, with the redirection of some of the resources that were saved as a result of the discontinuation of the late TV news, steps are being taken to improve and upgrade the regular news programmes.

Dr Hong Hai: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Lau Ping Sum (Yio Chu Kang): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IF 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, as a medium of communication or artistic expression, the film is one of the most powerful. Whether for entertainment or education, vivid images and sounds create an impact which the printed word cannot match. With rising affluence, the TV set and video cassette recorder are found in almost all households. The way of life depicted, the attitudes and values shown on films and TV programmes reach out immediately to all segments of the population. It is, therefore, necessary to have some form of censorship or control of what is available for public viewing. This is true not only in Asian societies but also in the West where artistic expression is not without constraints.

In a recent article in the "Economists" and I quote:

' ... If not quite unshockable, the West is thick-skinned, and is surprised when others are not.

The truth is somewhat different, as followers of "The Last Temptation of Christ" will remember. The West shows regularly that it can take offence too, and that limits are set for artists even in the freest societies.'

The writer then gave several examples where artistic expression was not without its constraints. One example, he gave, in a case in Britain, a Canadian artist and a gallery curator were fined in February for exhibiting a mannequin wearing earrings of freeze-dried human foetuses. In that case the Judge told the jury:

'In any civilized society, there has to be a constraint on freedom to act in a way which has an adverse effect on other members of the society.'

In our context, against a back-drop of increasing Westernization, the need to curb the violence, permissiveness and foul language used in some films is undisputed by most. However, standards of acceptability are not static. For example, kissing scenes were taboo in most Asian films only a decade ago. But today even films produced in China have relaxed such a rule.

The role of the film censor is certainly difficult. It requires consistent application of good judgment based on a set of criteria which ought to be reviewed from time to time taking into account changing circumstances. I would like to ask the Minister if, in recent years, the criteria for censorship have been reviewed and updated, for the enjoyment of films can be marred by disjointed scenes.

In addition, I would like to ask the Minister what kind of training and development plans are in place for the film censors whose responsibility is to achieve a balance between national objectives on the one hand and artistic expression and entertainment value on the other.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Encik Yatiman Yusof): Sir, when I submitted a cut, MCI had not come out with any comment following a request from the Muslim Religious Council to have the book banned. It seems that the cut has been overtaken by events that MCI had finally decided to detain the book.

An hon. Member: What book is it?

Encik Yatiman Yusof: The Satanic Verses, I am sorry. Sir, there is one point which I would like to make here. In making decisions, we ought to be seen as acting in a consistent manner. I think the book by Salman Rushdie is clearly blasphemous. It insults the Muslims. It causes great unhappiness and it hurts the feelings of the Muslims and we are quite aware of the misunderstanding and tension the book has created world-wide. However, Sir, I would like to confine to our position on the Satanic Verses in Singapore itself.

Sometime ago, there was a controversy surrounding the book entitled "The Last Temptation". The Ministry was correct in detaining the book and withholding it from distribution. However, judging from comments raised in the newspapers, especially the English newspaper, we have seen prominent personalities taking a position - some publicly declaring that the book ought not to be banned. I would ask such personalities whether they feel the same on this book, whether they would be campaigning for the Satanic Verses from being detained by the Government.

Sir, consistency is important so that we are not seen as being unfair, not being just. In ensuring that in a multi-racial society where religious sensitivity can be an explosive subject, a cautious, fair and judicious approach has got to be applied.

The Chairman: You have two minutes to make your reply.

Mr Mah Bow Tan: If that is the case, Sir, I do not think a response is necessary to the Member for Tampines GRC on Satanic Verses. Suffice it though to say that the MCI did not finally decide to detain the book but actually had already made a decision and had communicated that decision to the book distributors about a month before.

Sir, can I turn to the point made by the Member for Yio Chu Kang about the question of censorship standards. I agree that the standards of acceptability are not static. In fact, they move all the time and, because of this, it is incumbent that the censors are also aware of the current situation. But let me just inform the House that the Ministry's policy is to follow, not to lead, in standards of public morality. It strikes a balance between both the conservative and the liberal sections of the population because for every request or for every strident view that we are too strict there is an equally vociferous view that in certain cases we are being a bit too lenient.

The broad censorship guidelines for films are, very briefly, to disallow films which are objectionable on either moral or political, communal or religious grounds, in other words, those that depict sexual permissiveness or those which attack any religion or race. However, when deciding whether to make a cut or not, the censors do take into consideration the overall theme of the film. For example, some violent scenes may be allowed if the theme is a war film. A film on a sexually transmitted disease would be allowed if the film is portraying sexually permissive behaviour. Besides consulting each other, the Ministry and the film censors also have recourse to the views of the Film Advisory Committee and the Films Appeal Committee.

The Chairman: Order, guillotine time. Mr Lau.

Mr Lau Ping Sum: I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (8), Dr Hong Hai, 12 minutes.

Dr Hong Hai: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IH 5200 of the Development Estimates.

Sir, it is not fair to say that the MRT is a white elephant; it is only a light shade of grey.

Why are there not more people taking the MRT to not more people taking the MRT to work? The problem lies with the feeder system. Motorists who congest our roads do not have a convenient system for getting from their houses to the nearest MRT station. The bus feeders from housing estates to MRT stations are inadequate; in the private estates, they are practically non-existent and it is not easy to get a taxi from your house to the station. Many taxi drivers do not want to respond to radio calls for only short trips from the house to the nearest station.

Sir, I am aware that the Ministry is working with SMRT and the bus companies on "through-ticketing" and for buses to render better feeder services. I do not know why this was not settled even as the MRT was being built. But even if this had been done, it might only have been a half measure.

Sir, I think there is a more fundamental problem here. The MRT is taking business away from the bus companies. Why should the bus companies cooperate in bringing more passengers to the MRT? When two organizations are fighting for the same pie, it is unrealistic to expect that good cooperative schemes can be worked out.

Sir, I think the alternative is to merge SMRT and SBS as one company. Within the same company, cross-subsidies are not a problem as long as it enhances the overall efficiency and profitability of the combined organization. The benefits of the merger could be as follows: cheap and efficient feeder services from housing estates, both private and HDB, to MRT stations. Secondly, where buses and MRT have a common route, the bus service could be reduced or even taken off. We would have less road congestion and pollution as a result of fewer buses if they were replaced partly by MRT.

Sir, it will not do for the Minister to say that both bus companies and SMRT are private corporations and we should leave it to market forces if they wish to merge. Public transportation has too many social costs and economic externalities, and it requires State intervention. May I have the Minister's views on this?

Mr Teo Chong Tee (Changi): Sir, firstly, let me declare my interest because the subject I am going to talk about involves my workplace.

Sir, on Monday, 20th March, Singaporeans came to know for the first time that there will be Changi sky-trains serving air travellers between the two passenger terminals at Changi Airport in 1990. It is also the first international airport outside the United States and Britain to have such an automated people mover system. This modern facility will indeed be another milestone for Changi Airport which is in my constituency.

Sir, what about the Changi underground trains for Changi Airport? Most big international airports are linked by underground train services to the city central and, in some cases, to the outlying areas as well, whereas our Changi Airport could not even be reached by the MRT from different parts of Singapore. The MRT station nearest to the airport is at Pasir Ris station which, as reported, will be ready next year.

The volume of air travellers using Changi Airport has increased so rapidly as evidently shown by the necessity to build a second passenger terminal. Many of these travellers, I believe, are familiar with the underground train services in other countries. I am sure they will welcome the opportunity of travelling in our modern MRT when they arrive in Singapore.

Every day there are many well-wishers and greeters who call at the airport to either send off their friends, relatives and loved ones or to receive them on their arrivals. Changi Airport alone employs several thousand people. These airport workers need a more convenient mode of direct transportation to and from their workplace. They are either working on normal office hours or on shift duties. Many Singaporeans and Malaysian casual visitors visit the airport as one of their sightseeing stops. During the school vacation, groups of students accompanied by their teachers also visit the airport as part of their excursion tours.

Sir, all in all, the volume of people in general using Changi Airport in one way or another is significantly high and it therefore justifies for an extension of the MRT to Changi Airport which is presently the best airport in the world. It would be cheaper to extend the MRT service to the airport now than, say, five to 10 years later when the cost of construction of the extended line will be more expensive. I urge the Hon. Minister to positively consider linking Changi Airport with other parts of Singapore.

The Chairman: Encik Wan Hussin is not speaking. Dr Yeo.

Dr Yeo Ning Hong: Sir, the Chairman of the GPC has raised a very good point, which is to encourage the availability of feeder services to bring passengers from the vicinity, public housing estates, maybe even private housing estates, to the MRT so that they can also take advantage of our MRT system. This is being looked into very closely by both bus companies, namely, SBS and TIBS together with SMRT. The problem at the moment is not that there are no bus routes available, to bring people to the MRT station. The problem is one of fares. Under the present structure, the buses operate two different fare structures - one known as feeder fare which is 15 cents and the other one known as trunk services which starts at 40>. The bus services cross-subsidize each other because normally a person would take a feeder bus to an interchange and then take a trunk route. They pay less than economic fare for the feeder and they pay slightly more than economic fare for the trunk service.

Trunk services are presently available from many different parts of Singapore and they are available to bring residents to the MRT stations. What is needed is a fare structure that will permit some kind of cross-subsidy from the MRT system to the trunk service that brings residents from beyond walking distance of the MRT station to the MRT station. This is currently being actively looked into by the three operators, TIBS, SBS and SMRT. We want to have this out as soon as possible but, as I have explained in this House before, Sir, the problem is the lack of ticketing equipment. The companies are on the verge of going out for tender. They should be able to make a decision on the equipment required very soon. Then it will just be a matter of equipping all the buses and then this problem should be less severe. Fares should come down a little for those taking trunk route buses from their housing estate to the MRT station.

Sir, while the problem obviously needs to be solved, I also want to remind the House that at the moment about 80% of the population are living in HDB housing estates. So, while it is a problem, it is not that acute a problem. Notwithstanding that, we are pressing ahead to resolve that.

Sir, the Member for Changi, Mr Teo has pleaded again for the MRT to be extended to Changi, to Changi Airport in particular. Sir, I have noted his proposal. Indeed, this particular suggestion comes up again and again, very regularly, as are the suggestions from people living in other parts of Singapore wanting to have the MRT go to where they live or where they work. Sir, I have stated Government's policy, which is, we will build the MRT in places where there is a need for them, where there are enough passengers to make that particular route viable economically, not to pay for the capital cost but just to make it viable for operational purposes.

I want to explain to the House why that is very important. If a particular route is not viable, then commuters in other parts of the island, whether they are living in Ang Mo Kio or Toa Payoh or Clementi, travelling along the busier parts of the MRT route, will have to subsidize the very few people who are travelling to and from Changi Airport. And that would be extremely costly and unfair to the former commuters. So there must be a certain minimum load, a minimum number of people served by a particular route before that route can be extended. The intention is to exploit fully every square metre of land that we have in Singapore. And the MRT provides us with the means of doing that. But it must be done sensibly. As soon as HDB has plans for the detailed development of the East Coast Area, including Changi Constituency, and as soon as demand is sufficient to pay for the operating cost of the route, we will take the MRT to Changi Airport.

Dr Hong Hai: I wonder whether the Minister would comment on the feasibility and the rationale for the merger of SBS and SMRT.

Dr Yeo Ning Hong: Sir, there is no necessity for a merger because with a revenue-sharing system, which means some measure of cross-subsidy between the buses and the SMRT there is no need for them to come under one company.

Dr Hong Hai: Sir, I hope the Ministry would further consider the point I made, which is that when you have two organizations competing for the same pie, and when SMRT is, in fact, taking business away from buses, it is difficult to expect bus companies to cooperate effectively with SMRT to make the other organization more profitable. I know it is a complex problem that requires more thought. I hope the Ministry will give it further consideration. And on that note, I withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (9), Encik Yatiman is not moving. Amendment No. 10, Dr Lee.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh (Non-Constituency Member): Mr Chairman, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IJ 5200 of the Development Estimates.

Sir, since 1980, Cantonese serials have not been telecast over Singapore TV. The Government gave the excuse that it would clash with the Promote Mandarin Campaign. But, as everybody knows, there were widespread protests and the aged suffered in silence. As usual, the Government never bothered about protests from the people and the only thing that it did was to say that in time, the public would come to learn how to accept TV serials dubbed in Mandarin. The people have come to accept, but not like, what has been dubbed in Mandarin. Viewership, of course, fell drastically and the SBC's revenue fell very much at one time as many commercials pulled out. That helped the video-tape and video-cassette recorder business to boom. And, of course, Malaysia TV came onto the scene. Today, we can see that the RTM2 and TV3 telecast Cantonese serials on a regular basis and have naturally captured many of the TV commercials plus the viewership.

The Government, Sir, has realised all this loss of revenue and has tried to win back some of the viewership by putting up better TV shows, and putting up even popular Cantonese serials dubbed in Mandarin. But somehow orother, Sir, it has not fully succeeded in winning back all the Singapore viewers who have already been lost to the RTM2 and TV3. People always complain, Sir, that Cantonese serials dubbed in Mandarin are not the genuine goods, and they do not get satisfaction and thrill out of those dubbed in Mandarin serials. The old folks, of course, have suffered and whether they be Hokkien or Teochew, or Hainanese, or Hakka, or Cantonese - speaking all of them fully understand and follow the dialogues in Cantonese serials, and therefore they like them very much. But they cannot possibly follow the serials in Mandarin. They are too old to learn anyway. And they have been forced to see these Mandarin serials simply because they have nothing better to do.

Sir, as everybody knows, Singapore has an ageing population and their needs are not very many. The Government has already stated that it would like to attend to the needs of the people who are aged, and there is also big talk about a new style of Government. Now then is the opportunity for the Government to do something good for the aged. The occasional video-shows in community centres have not helped very much. If the Government really wants to help entertain the aged, it should telecast the Cantonese serials on SBC once a fortnight, or once a week, if possible. There are three tangible benefits. (1) It will not in any way stop anyone from learning Mandarin. It creates variety and it helps to satisfy the demand of many of the aged to see the Cantonese serials. (2) It will help increase revenue for SBC because many of the TV commercials will flock to such a programme. (3) It will also help to check the undesirable influence of certain TV commercials from RTM2 and TV3.

If Government has any doubt on what I have just said, Sir, let it conduct a survey to find out how many people really want these Cantonese serials.

Mr Mah Bow Tan: Mr Chairman, Sir, I believe I do not have much time left. So I will go straight to the point.

SBC's practice of not telecasting Cantonese serials, I think, is well known. It actually stopped in 1982, not 1980 as the NCMP, Dr Lee, mentioned. SBC's practice was obviously in support of Government policy to promote the use of Mandarin rather than dialects.

The Member indicated that there were widespread protests. SBC is not aware of these widespread protests and I think it is their business to know about this. Because, if it is so, the news people would have known about it.

Viewership fell drastically and revenue fell - I think the figures that SBC have do not support this contention. It is true that the older members of the family were deprived of their favourite Cantonese serials when this was done, and it was a sacrifice. But to be fair to them ---

The Chairman: Order. It is 1.40 pm. Guillotine time for this Head.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: I withdraw my amendment now, Sir.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $44,408,890 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $698, 271,750 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head J -

The Chairman: Amendment No. (1), Mr Tarmugi. 35 minutes.

Mr Abdullah Tarmugi (Siglap): Sir, I beg to move,

That the total sum to be allocated for Head J of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100.

Sir, in February 1988, this House agreed and adopted the Agenda for Action as the basis for Government policy and nation building. Six Advisory Councils were then formed and they were to chart programmes in part implementation of the Agenda for Action for us to be able to achieve the kind of society that we want at the end of this decade.

All this, Sir, showed Government and the people's ability and readiness to go beyond bread and butter issues which were our priority during the 1950s and 1970s and determined Government policy and the ethos in this country. That was long time ago, Sir. Now we have developed to a point where we can pay more attention to the finer things in life, to go for higher aspirations and to fulfill the higher expectations of the people. In other words, to raise the quality of life in Singapore.

Sir, the work of the six Advisory Councils concerns matters under the Ministry of Community Development and also under the purview of my GPC. Sir, they will set the direction and guide the work of the Ministry up to the end of this decade. Many man-hours and thought have gone into the deliberations of the Advisory Councils and the recommendations. Expert opinion has been sought, research has been done, feedback from the public has been gathered.

My GPC, Sir, is of the opinion that the implementation of the various recommendations of these Advisory Councils would perceptibly enhance the quality of life in Singapore and we would, certainly push for their implementation.

Sir, the work of the Advisory Councils has been completed and I believe most of the Councils' reports have been submitted to the Government and I do not intend, to go into detail into each of their recommendations. Suffice it to say that my GPC has gone through most of these reports and we concurred with most of the recommendations.

But I would like to ask the Minister some questions, that is, what is the Government's position vis-a-vis these reports, namely, has Government completed studying the various reports (at least those which have been submitted), if not, when? What are the recommendations which have been accepted and the time targets for their implementation? What are the recommendations that are not accepted and why are they not accepted? And who, or which Ministry, will be the coordinator to implement these recommendations since many of them will involve Ministries other than Ministry of Community Development?

Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir): Sir, I shall be speaking on community centres in Opposition constituencies.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, you have two subjects. You have to take them together.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Yes, I will take them together. I am much obliged to you.

Mr Chairman, just before I was elected in 1984 as Member of Parliament for Potong Pasir, there were three community centres there - two were modern and were new generation types and one was built as an extension of the void deck at Lorong 8, Toa Payoh. Soon after I was elected two of the said three community centres were taken away. There was no justification at all for such a move, especially the one at Jalan Wangi, Sennett Estate. That building was planned and built partly out of public funds, specifically to be used as a community centre. It was modern and equipped with all social, cultural, educational and sporting facilities. It was a popular community centre, especially with residents at Sennett Estate and its vicinity.

When the Government took it over, the use of that community centre was changed, contrary to all Government planning regulations from that of social, cultural, education and recreational use to that of an office use. As for the other community centre at Lorong 8 Toa Payoh, it was left idle for over four years. Recently, I was told, it has been tendered out to the public. I shall welcome this move if it is tendered out to the private sector for use as a play school or as a creche.

I have brought up this matter of community centres in my constituency in this House before. And I was not satisfied with the reasons given on why the said two community centres were taken away and the remaining one at Potong Pasir Avenue 2 not handed over to me. As far as I know, all the PAP MPs are made in charge of community centres in their respective constituencies. In the case of Potong Pasir, the situation is most perplexing. I have been elected into Parliament not once but twice with increased votes. Yet, I have been refused as an MP to take charge of the community centre at Potong Pasir. In my place, as I have been told, a PAP candidate rejected by the voters at the last general election, despite his promise to build an Olympic-sized swimming pool at Potong Pasir if he were elected, has been installed as the adviser to the community centre management committee (CCMC) of Potong Pasir CC. Anyone who followed the last general elections will also remember that that PAP candidate promised to pack up together with all his grassroots supporters and leave Potong Pasir if he lost the elections. The question is: what is he doing at Potong Pasir Community Centre now?

Sir, the Prime Minister was reported in the Straits Times of 30th June 1985 to have said:

'The style of the community centres has changed with time. However, the objectives and role of the PA remain as embodied in the People's Association Act passed in 1960. From the outset, the government anticipated the necessity of insulating the PA and the management of its community centres from interference by political parties or opposition MPs. The PA and the community centres are instruments of the government to carry out its policies of nation building.'

Sir, I do understand why that policy was adopted in 1960. Those were turbulent times. The threat of a Communist takeover was there. The Government had to use the community centres as political instruments to win over the hearts and minds of the people and also to be as listening posts for the Government. We are now in the 1980s, more than 20 years since the People's Association Act was made law. There are no more internal or external Communist threats.

The Opposition is constitutionally elected. There is no chance whatsoever that the social, political, economic situation can be reverted back to that of the early 1960s when there was mass unemployment and the nation building process had just begun. The Government's early fears of the Communists cannot be translated into fear of the Opposition today. The Opposition today is not conspiratorial. We are open and above board in all our activities. We have worked within the parameters laid down by the Government. In fact, it is insulting to the Opposition to be treated with great suspicion by the Government. As far as I am concerned, as the only elected Member in Parliament, I am in fact angry.

The Minister for the Environment (Dr Ahmad Mattar): Only Opposition Member!

Mr Chiam See Tong: Only Opposition MP. Correct, thank you.

Long before the last general elections took place, I announced that if I were to be elected again, the Town Council at Potong Pasir shall be non-political. I have carried out that promise. Out of a Council of 9 members excluding myself, 7 have no political affiliations whatsoever with my Party. I can be outvoted on every issue by the majority of the Town Council if they so wish. But I know I have no fear at all. I have full confidence in my Council members because I know they are all responsible and good citizens and will only act for the interest of Potong Pasir Town. In similar vein, the Government should have no fear to appoint me the adviser to the CCMC of Potong Pasir CC. If I were to be appointed, the CC at Potong Pasir will really become apolitical. As I see it, the real issue is really not whether the Opposition will convert the CC to become a hive of political activities which the Government knows that it cannot be done in present-day Singapore social context. But the issue is the acceptability of the Opposition into the system. The Opposition up to now is still treated like a stepchild and has still not been accepted fully into our social and political system of the Government.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, I just want to remind you that you have one minute left to speak on the other subject.

Mr Chiam See Tong: In this respect, the Government is not in tune with the people of Singapore. The people have given the Opposition nearly 40% of the votes at the last general election and in my case a 63.2% mandate. They all want the Opposition to be part of the nation building process. The Government cannot hold back the wishes of the people any longer. It must allow elected Opposition MPs to be appointed as advisers to the CCMC now.

Sir, as regards the subject of accessibility of libraries, I note that at Potong Pasir two of the HDB estates and also at other housing estates, there are no libraries there. I have read reports of the Minister of Education in England and one of the points he brought out was that there must be sufficient branch libraries. As regards branch libraries, the distance stated therein is as follows:

'The distance between service points is important, particularly to the old and to the very young. We think that in urban areas, no person should normally have to travel more than one mile to the library. Indeed, we think that the distance should be less in heavily built-up areas where natural centres of population are closer together and the density of population justifies the provision of more branch libraries.'

Sir, I also notice that we do not have statutory provisions for the Minister to set up libraries and to supervise libraries. Perhaps the Minister could look into this area.

The Minister for Community Development (Mr Wong Kan Seng): Mr Speaker, Sir, as Mr Tarmugi has rightly pointed out, we have provided for the basic needs of our people. During the closing address by the Minister for Finance on the Budget debate last week, he also said that since we have provided for the basic needs of the people, we should now devote more of our resources towards defence, towards improving the quality of education, quality of health and also generally the quality of life. Mr Tarmugi also talked about the Agenda for Action which we have adopted in this House. Those of us who were in this House will remember that.

The Agenda for Action which we adopted last year outlined four broad areas: nation building, economic growth and progress, human resources and education, social and cultural development. I must report that we have made progress in these four areas. Of course, more can still be done. To take us further to implement these four areas, particularly on nation building and social and cultural development, the Government formed six advisory councils recently to work out a set of programmes in these areas and to bring about a better quality of life. However, I would like to add here that the Government alone cannot bring about a better quality of life. It can, however, play an enabling role and provide the conditions that are conducive towards creating a better quality of life so that family and community cohesion can be promoted, culture enriched, and community facilities and services improved. And to achieve these objectives, the individual person, the families, the community organizations and the corporate citizens must be involved. On the Government's part, this process has been carried out systematically over the years. For example, through increased funding and grants, through consultation and communications with the people, through Ministerial visits to constituencies, meetings with professionals and other groups, at forums, workshops, Feedback Unit inputs and, more recently, these six advisory councils.

More than 400 people have been involved in the six advisory councils deliberations as well as the deliberations of the sub-committees and other committees formed by the advisory councils. More than 1,000 submissions have been received from the public. The councils have also held almost 120 dialogue and forum sessions. May I take this opportunity to thank them all for their input and contribution and the time and effort they have put in in coming up with very comprehensive reports that outlined the very important programmes that we should have in place to bring about a better quality of life. As Mr Tarmugi has asked, what is the Government's plan, decision, action, arising from these reports? Allow me to inform the House, Sir, that three of the advisory councils, namely, the Advisory Council on the Disabled, the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation and the Advisory Council on the Aged, have sub- mitted their reports to the Government which have considered all the reports. The reports have been made public.

The Advisory Council on Youth has also just completed its report and the Government is considering it. As for the other two advisory councils, one on Culture and the Arts, the other on Family and Community Life, they are in the last stages of finalizing the reports and when they are ready I am sure they will also be made public.

On the Sports and Recreation Advisory Council's recommendations, they have made 43 recommendations in all. Of the 43 recommendations, I am pleased to say that the Government has accepted all the recommendations except three. These three recommendations are, firstly, designating SAF camps for selected high performance sports and to marshall all the available resources in support of such adopted sports. Secondly, reviving of supernumerary scheme for top national athletes in national service whereby top national athletes are posted to specific SAF units according to their various sports. Thirdly, establishing a department in the Military College to promote both recreational and sports excellence.

Sir, the Government is not in favour of the first two recommendations as it is an established policy that military training, national service indeed, should take priority during the period of national service of a person.

As regards the establishment of a department in the Military College to promote sports excellence, the SAF Sports Association, the physical training and sports branch of Mindef are set up specifically to do this job and therefore there is no need to have a separate arm in the Military College.

On the Advisory Council on the Disabled, the Government shares the view of the Advisory Council that disabled people have the same rights as other people to take a proper place in society. And this should be the concern of everyone, the family, the community, and the Government to help them live as independently as possible. To a very great extent, Sir, the maturity of a society is measured by its attitude towards its less fortunate members. As we move towards the next century, we should ensure that the less fortunate should not be left behind. The Government agrees therefore that every opportunity should be created in the areas of education, vocational training and employment for the disabled so as to enable them to live as independently as possible. Public places should also be made accessible to the disabled to facilitate their integration into society.

The Council, Sir, made 26 key recommendations covering a wide range of topics from special education, vocational training, employment and accessibility of public places and to measures of preventing disability. The Government has, in principle, accepted all the major recommendations of the Advisory Council on the Disabled, except, Sir, for three areas which it is still studying.

One of these areas is the responsibility for the transportation of the disabled and the recommendation to help set up a transport fund. The other two are the appropriate authority to look after the mentally burnt-out patients and to coordinate vocational assessment, training and placement of disabled persons.

On the Advisory Council on the Aged, Sir, Members will recall that the Agenda for Action adopted by this House also identified our ageing population as one of the major challenges in the coming decades. The Advisory Council has observed that the number of aged persons will rise from the present 221,000 or 8% of the population to about 835,000 or 26% of the population by the year 2030. To meet some of these problems envisaged, the Advisory Council has made 40 recommendations. The main thrust of the recommendations are aimed at creating an environment whereby the aged can continue to live a healthy and fulfilling life and encouraging the aged to remain with the family for as long as possible so that admission of the aged into residential homes will only be the last resort. The Government has accepted all the recommendations of the Advisory Council, except the recommendation to set up health screening and medical counselling centres in every Constituency and the recommendation to set up day-hospitals for the senile demented.

The Government feels that the demand for health screening and medical counselling does not at present justify the need to set up centres in each and every constituency. It will be enough for health screening and medical counselling to be made available at senior citizens' health care centres of the Home Nursing Foundation and at community centres' health screening centres.

On day-hospitals, the Ministry of Health's view is that the care of the aged suffering from senile dementia is best managed at home or in a community-based setting. For those whose behaviour is particularly difficult to manage, institutionalization in nursing homes is the only solution and not in day hospitals, as recommended by the Council.

As to how we are going to implement these Council's recommendations, Sir, my Ministry will coordinate the implementation of all the recommendations that have been accepted by the Government. In fact, some of the recommendations have been implemented. For example, the Government has increased the per capita grant for special education from $1,500 to $3,000 per annum per child. The tax reliefs for disabled dependant or for an aged dependant will increase from $750 and $1,000 to $2,500. These new tax reliefs are more than what the Advisory Council's has recommended. This shows the Government's strong support to families to help themselves by keeping their disabled and the aged dependants.

On the recommendations of the Sports and Recreation Advisory Council, the Singapore Sports Council will be monitoring the recommendations and help to implement them as and when they can be implemented.

The Advisory Council on the Aged, Sir, has recommended a national council on ageing to coordinate the activities of the various agencies involved in providing programmes and resources for the aged and to receive feedback from the aged and their families. But there is also another committee under the Family and Community Life Advisory Council which recommended the establishment of a national council on the family. My Ministry will be considering the merger of these two national councils so that we can have a better coordination of the work of the two councils.

The Member for Potong Pasir, Mr Chiam, raised the question about his role in the community centre and whether he should be appointed as an adviser. My colleague, the Minister for Labour, will deal with this as the Deputy Chairman of PA. But let me add one point about his role as Town Council Chairman. He has been elected by the people precisely to run the Town Council. Whether he wants it to be a political organization or not it is entirely up to him. He can appoint his SDP members to serve in the Town Council or he can appoint one of them to serve or he can appoint none to serve. He is entirely free to run the Town Council as he pleases because what the Town Council envisages is that the MP must have the responsibility for the running of the Town Council.

On his comments about libraries in Potong Pasir or no libraries at all in Potong Pasir and he has quoted what the UK Minister for Education had said. I would like to say that Singapore is not the UK. We are a very different society. In any case, there are two libraries which are quite close to Potong Pasir. I think they are within 1.6 km from Potong Pasir and one is in Toa Payoh and the other is in Geylang East. Of course, people will need to make some effort to go to the libraries and they cannot expect to have a library right next to their doorstep.

The Minister for Labour (Mr Lee Yock Suan): Mr Chairman, Sir, may I first clarify that although the PA comes under the MCD vote for budget purposes, I am fully in charge of the PA and that is why I am answering today.

This topic brought up by Mr Chiam, the Member for Potong Pasir, is something which he has brought up almost without fail in every Budget session.

If Members are interested in the full details, I would like to refer them to Hansard of 24 March 1987, Cols. 972 to 982. There is a full record of the debate which took place then. Today, in view of the time constraint, I will have to be very brief.

I think Mr Chiam has been trying to squeeze the maximum political mileage out of this single issue every year because he refuses to be convinced by the rationale and the genuine answers that we have given. I do not know how else I can convince him. Perhaps I have another point that was not mentioned in the past. If he were to refer to the 1985/86 Budget Document which was prepared before the elections in December 1984, he will find that there is a statement in there which says that the Senette CC will be replaced by the modern CC which was built with the intention of replacing that CC. He must realize that the PAP did not go into the elections expecting to lose the election. So already in 1984 the Community leaders were told that there was a need to build a better CC because Sennette CC was not up to the full standard of a modern CC. So plans were afoot to raise funds and to move to this modern CC when it was built. So that is what has happened since. But the Member insists year in and year out that it was closed to do him in. That is not the reason, Sir. The reason is a very simple one, and that is we do have manpower and other resource constraints in the PA, like in other Government organizations. There is, for example, a freeze on the recruitment of staff. Therefore, although MPs would like to have, not only Mr Chiam but other MPs, more than one CC in each constituency, it is just not possible. So what we have to do is to try and upgrade and provide the best CCs possible to serve the residents. As a result of the delineation of the election boundaries, certain constituencies have more than one CC. In fact, we are wondering how to make use of some of these other CCs. Maybe PA should run one and the other one should be leased out to other organizations, I do not know. But the point is that we have to conserve manpower and provide CCs as centralized facilities for the use of the residents in the most convenient point where there are the most number of people who can be served.

For example, in 1988 alone, 20 CCs were closed, including some fairly large ones. So let us not hear any more about this issue. I think Members must be quite tired of it.

The other issue concerns why he has not been appointed adviser to the CC in Potong Pasir. The reason is very simple. The PA is a statutory board. Its objective is to carry out Government policies, according to what the Government thinks best. Of course, these policies are the policies of the PAP, which is the ruling party. There is no rule in the Constitution or anywhere else that says the MP who happens to be elected in a constituency should be appointed the adviser to the CC. So naturally the Government would appoint those people who are most suitable to carry out the Government's policies. If, for example, the Member for Potong Pasir would declare that from now on he will support all Government policies, maybe we will consider appointing him. But the mere fact of his having been elected in Potong Pasir does not mean that he has the right to go into the CCs, into the schools, into the other Government facilities in Potong Pasir. He is elected to represent the constituents in Parliament. Now with the introduction of Town Councils, he has a bigger role. He has to run the estate to look after conservancy and so on. But that is a different matter from running the other organizations, the other Government machineries such as the PA, which are meant to carry out the Government's objectives.

PAP MPs have been appointed advisers to the grassroots organizations of constituencies where they have been elected. But this need not be so. If the PAP MPs do not perform, for example, they may not be reappointed. I may not reappoint some members if they do not perform their role in the MCs. One final word before I close, and this is that, with the system of democracy that we have here, which is based on the British system, the ruling party has full control over all the machineries of State, including the statutory boards like the PA. Having won the political mandate from the people, the ruling party has to make the best use of this machinery of State to carry out the Party's election platform and deliver on its promises. If it fails, it may be thrown out at the next general election and the new ruling party then has full access to and control over the facilities. It is not a system of power-sharing between or among various political parties. I would suggest the Member go back and reflect on this point and refer back to the whole series of debates we have had on this issue. If he likes, we can have a further debate, but I think we are wasting the time of Members in this Chamber.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, can I be given just one minute to clarify one point? It has been stated many a time by the Government that the CCs are also a tool of nation building.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: "By the Government".

Mr Chiam See Tong: Is there not a role for the Opposition in Singapore to be part of this nation building?

Mr Lee Yock Suan: Sir, there is a definite role for the Opposition if they are a constructive Opposition. In the case of the CCs, the facilities are available to the public, whether they be PAP supporters or Opposition supporters. They can come in and use the facilities to play games, to learn how to arrange flowers, to cook Chinese dishes, and so on, but at the same time the Management Committee also has a programme of its own - forums, talks, cultural shows. It will invite whomsoever it thinks fit to these functions. It has the full right and responsibility to run the CCs and it is not the MP who has the automatic right to go into the CC and say, "Because I am elected, therefore, here I must be given the CC to do what I like." This is the clear distinction. The CC is meant for community development and I hope the Opposition Member would support us in our community development efforts. But it does not mean that therefore he must be Advisor to the CCMC. It does not follow.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, I thank the Minister for his answer and I also would like to accept his suggestion that there should be a full debate on this matter. I would certainly take it up.

Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Dr S. Vasoo (Tiong Bahru GRC): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JA 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, we should take a fresh look in terms of promoting more community activities. Community groups such as RCs, CCCs and voluntary organizations should be given more support so that they will be able to undertake more localized activities and programmes to build a better neighbourhood. This is essentially important because by doing so we will be able to build a better network of support in the local neighbourhood of the housing estate. Through this network of support, we will be able to encourage the more able to help the less able living in the various localities.

Sir, the various advisory councils have also suggested that community groups and organizations should take steps to organize more programmes for the aged, disabled, the families and youths. Whilst these recommendations are important, it is not possible for community groups and organizations to carry out such projects on a continuing basis without an initial capital support for their projects to be implemented. Most of these groups depend on voluntary manpower. However, besides their best will and intention, they do require some initial capital to start off the various projects that they wish to undertake.

May I suggest that the Ministry look into the possibility of establishing a community development fund which could be made available to the various community groups seeking support for funding various projects that they wish to initiate in the neighbourhood. By having such a fund, we will be able to encourage various groups to undertake activities which will help solve some of the problems in the neighbourhood. These funds can be a working capital or it can be used as seed money for the organizations to initiate their programmes.

Dr Koh Lam Son (Telok Blangah): Sir, in Singapore where resources are limited, a welfare state is undesirable. Our approach to welfare service is through a joint effort between the Government and the people. While the Ministry of Community Development provides the infrastructure and sets the direction the voluntary welfare organizations, backed by the community, are responsible for providing the service. This approach has worked well in the past and should continue to be the framework for us to address the needs of the underprivileged.

However, Sir, to be effective, the voluntary welfare organizations require the continued support of the Government. In particular, they are facing problems in two areas. The first was mentioned by the speaker before me. The funding for these organizations is grossly inadequate and very often they have to rely heavily on their own fund raising projects in order to finance their efforts. This is undesirable because it detracts them from their primary goal of meeting the needs of the underprivileged. I would also like to call on the Ministry to set up a fund for these organizations, and to fund these organizations especially if they assume responsibility for a function previously provided by the Ministry. A specific example is the case of the Disabled Services Section of the Ministry. When this section was closed down and the responsibility transferred to the Singapore Council for Social Services, I understand limited funds were passed on to the Council to discharge their responsibility.

Perhaps one good way in which the Ministry can fund and support these voluntary organizations is to match dollar for dollar public donations to the Community Chest. This will enable the Government to participate with the public in providing the care needed and in enabling the Chest to support more organizations that require help.

Secondly, the voluntary welfare organizations need the help of the Ministry to provide training for the volunteers. If training is undertaken by the voluntary welfare organizations it will again severely tax their limited resources and further reduce their effectiveness. By providing proper training programmes the Government, is in fact making an investment for the future to ensure that these organiza- tions continue to be able to fulfil their roles well.

Finally, Sir, welfare volunteers whom I have spoken to would like to see more consultation between the Ministry and volunteer welfare organizations. They feel that this is necessary to ensure that the Ministry's policies are effective and take into account the problems faced by these organizations. I would like the Minister's comments on this.

Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon (Yuhua): ( In Mandarin): Sir, in the past few days, my colleagues in Parliament have been talking about the issue of core values which generally centres around school education. Today, I want to talk about the responsibility of grassroot organisations in the promotion of core values. In fact, before we touch on the topic, the Ministry of Community Development in its total defence scheme under Civil Defence has laid down 6 core values. These 6 cores values are in line with the 4 values outlined by the President in his Parliamentary Opening Address. And the 6 values are racial harmony, religion tolegrance, mutual concern, spirit of sacrifice and being proud of our history and cultural heritage and establishment of a common goal.

I am happy to note that in the past year the Ministry of Community Development and grassroots organizations have organized altogether about 15,000 activities and these efforts are indeed worth commending. But on these efforts, I also want to raise a few questions for the Minister. First, in the promotion of these six core values under Civil Defence, what has been the progress so far? And also, has the Authority concerned provided training for these grassroots leaders so that they will be able to play more important role? In the promotion of these values through the six core values, these are very profound issues. Are the offices of the Residents' Committee and CCCs, equiped with sufficient manpower to carry out such mission and satisfy developments and needs in these areas?

Another point is how the Ministry of Community Development, intends to attract people from the various ethnic, social levels and religious groups to get involved in community activities? I would also like to ask the Minister at the moment, whether we are faced with the problem of discrepancy in the religious and racial backgrounds. Also, how we can bring the concept of core values above that of religion and race differences. In a recent report by the three NUS lecturers, we can see that there has emerged a situation of religious imbalance in Singapore. It warned that competition among the various religions would lead to social class struggle. In the past few days, we have focused on religions instructions in schools. Today I wish to focus on the training at the grassroots level. I am just wondering whether the authority has noticed that some people are over involved with religious activities so much so that they do not have the time or are reluctant to get involved with community activities. They also encourage their children to get involved with religious activities only. The impact of this on our society can be both significant and long lasting.

If such trend indeed exists, does the Ministry of Community Development have any measures to correct the situation and encourage these people to get more involved in community adtivities? Another point is that what does the Ministry propose to do to promote core values over racial and religious differences? Next is the creating of a caring and loving society and families. To me, this is very important. Outside the schools, the family unit and the society are important organisations through which traditional values and superior moral values are transmitted. In the past, our Government and people in the promotion of economic prosperity and in the pursuit of better materialism have already achieved considerable success. But I hope we do not overlook building a loving and caring society. According to a report we submitted recently, we now have about 23,000 families which are living on the poverty line. These families need our help and encouragement to lead a more independent life. Under such circumstances I would also like to ask the Minister on the suggestions made by the Committee on the Poor and Destitute, whether the Government has accepted the recommendations made by the committee.

Another point I would like to talk about is voluntary welfare workers. At the moment there are 75,000 volunteers working in Singapore and this represents 4% of our adult population. This compares to US and UK which is 15%. So it appears our percentage of volunteers is somewhat low. I want to know if the Ministry has come out with any strategies to encourage more people to get involved with voluntary social services.

The last point brought up in one of the core values is being proud of our cultural heritage and history. It is important that we promote core value education through history and cultural heritage. But as we talk about these abstract concepts, such as how to place the nation before self, such abstract concepts sometimes are difficult for children and ordinary people to understand. Therefore, I think the best way is to use history, especially biographies of heroes who died for their countries and together with their spirit of sacrifice to teach them. So, under a situation where parents are very busy earning a living the most effective broadcast media is the TV and I hope the Ministry of Community Development can negotiate with the Ministry of Communications and Information to use TV to inject into our young these values and to teach our people through such history and biographies.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Mr Chairman, Sir, Dr Vasoo asked what sort of support we give to the grassroots organizations and the voluntary welfare organizations to help them carry out their activities which we want them to do. May I say that the grassroots organizations have all along been doing very good work with their advisors' assistance and with the dedication of the community leaders. They have always carried out their activities with their own funding either by organizing trade fairs, collecting newspapers or other f und-raising activities. In that regard they have done excellent work. Over the years they have been able to give out many scholarships, bursaries and financial assistance to the needy as well as subsidizing many of the activities for the residents.

We also want more of our grassroots organizations to carry out more activities. But in order to help them do this more effectively, the Government feels that one way would be to give them some form of financial assistance. As to what form this financial assistance will take and how the moneywould be disbursed, the details are still being worked out. The Government has decided, in principle, to allocate $1 million a year to help these organizations to carry out some of the activities which the advisors want them to do. This $1 million will be used at the discretion of the advisors of the grassroots organizations. Once we have worked out the details, we shall keep the advisors informed and they can apply for the money.

On the voluntary welfare organizations, they receive financial assistance from the Government if they have a case. For example, last year the Government disbursed $3.2 million to assist such welfare organizations. Of course, there is no fund being set aside to carry out activities. But MCD does have, from time to time, philanthropists who are willing to contribute to charity and to social purposes, and we will help them to disburse such funds to deserving projects and community organizations. But in addition to this kind of one-time help from philanthropists and charity organizations, the Government on its part has also provided many forms of assistance, for example, nominal rental, capital grants, per capita grants, block grants, and so on. Moreover, Government also gives them very cheap rental on government properties which are not being used by the Government, and also a waiver of developmental charges on properties that they need to develop. The clients of these voluntary welfare organizations, if they qualify, also receive free medical benefits from the hospitals when they visit the hospitals.

For the voluntary organzations which find difficulty in raising money to fund their activities, I would suggest that they join the Community Chest. Because the Community Chest is an umbrella or a large fund-raising organization to help fund the activities of these organizations, I have sometime ago appealed to Members of this House to also take part in the SHARE Programme of the Community Chest. I hope more Members will respond to this so that its Community Chest is able to raise more money to fund their activities.

Dr Koh's suggestion about providing funds to charity or welfare organizations that help to run some of Government's activities - this idea actually has been explored and the example quoted by Dr Koh is already implemented. We are going to work with three other organizations to help run homes for the children, for youths and for the intellectually disabled. For example, the Salvation Army will take over the new complex that is being built by MCD in Yio Chu Kang to set up a home for children and young persons. The Muhammadiyah Society also plans to set up a home for Muslim children and the Tai Phua Kuan Moral Society also plans to operate a home for the intellectually disabled.

As for training of volunteers, the Council of Social Service actually does conduct such training for volunteers and, if necessary, my Ministry will be pleased to help train such volunteers. My Ministry, whenever possible, also consults the voluntary welfare organizations as regards the kind of plans that we have, and we consult them also with regard to the kind of problems that they have, and we try to find ways to help them with their problems. We try to do as much as we can in the process of consultation.

As for Mrs Yu-Foo's comments about the six core values that I mentioned in the last debate, she is pleased to note that many activities have been carried out by the grassroots organizations. I must report that the Ministry has been very active in promoting these six core values. Perhaps I should speak in Mandarin to respond to the Member.

(In Mandarin) Our Ministry has been actively promoting the six core values. We do so by a two-pronged approach. One is the development of specific plans of activities to promote the six core values so that they can be better inculcated into the society. In fact, we will continually carry out these activities until such a time when all Singaporeans are able to better understand the various customs and cultures of the others. For example, we hold a community week every year. At the same time we also hold seminars, forums for people to explain and understand the cultures of our major races - Chinese, Malay and Indian - their religious customs and tradition, etc.

The second strategy is to identify those values which are regarded as obstacles in the way of community cohesion. Such work is being carried out through three organizations. They are the Social and Psychological Advisory Council, Total Defence Working Committee and the Social Defence Committee under the Ministry of Community Development.

The Family Life Committee set up by the Family and Community Advisory Council has suggested five core values which parents should also inculcate in their children. In order to inculcate these core values among Singaporeans, we must have a set of comprehensive and detailed action plans. We have to start from our younger generation, from pre-school, kindergarten and school, and through teachers and parents who must set a good examples to the younger generation, from the home to the community. Grassroots organizations like the RCs, CCCs, CCMC, Civil Defence Coordinating Committees and other civic organizations should also promote these activities and cultivate a community spirit among the people and strengthen communication between the people and the Government. They have played a significant role in the promotion of racial harmony and social cohesion. The Community Life Committee has also made some suggestions for implementation by the grassroots organizations so as to further enhance racial harmony and social cohesion. The Advisory Council may consider accepting these suggestions.

Mrs Yu-Foo has also brought up a point in the report of the Committee on the Destitute which states that there are about 23,000 families faced with problems of destitution. But among these 23,000 families, between 900 and 13,000 families are actually considered as facing problems of destitution. My Council will earnestly look into their suggestions.

As to how to attract more Singaporeans to get involved in community service, we have on many occassions and through activities, launched recruitment drives to attract more people to get involved and to spare some of their valuable time in serving the people. What we can do is only to talk them into giving some of their time to serve in community organizations.

As for those people who spend much of their time in promoting religious activities, we can only encourage them not to devote all their time on religious organizations but to re-direct some of their time to other community organizations so that they may have a better understanding of the workings of other organizations and the life and problems of other people in Singapore.

Dr Vasoo: Sir, I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Order. Time for suspension.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.00 pm.

Sitting accordingly suspended at 2.42 pm until 3.00 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.00 pm