MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT OF EXPENDITURE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1989 TO 31ST MARCH, 1990

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Head J - (cont.)

Dr S. Vasoo: Sir, may I be allowed to take the two subjects together?

The Chairman: Yes.

Dr Vasoo: Sir, may I be allowed to

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JD 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the need for child care services is likely to be more acute in the next few years. This is because of the increasing number of women entering the labour force. The labour force participation rate for women over the last five years has increased from 38% to 48%, which means that at least half of the labour force are women. The issue is: how do we help working mothers meet some of their child care needs, particularly those who are unable to depend on support from their kin groups or other forms of child care services which are available in the community.

Sir, with the reduction of manpower in Singapore, the problem is likely to worsen because more women may be encouraged to get into the labour force to meet the manpower shortage. If you ask the mothers living in the new housing estates about their problems, you will find that it is quite bad in the sense that there are very few child care facilities in the new towns. The reason is that most of these facilities are not planned when these new towns are set up. I think there is a need to see how we can encourage the development of more child care centres in the newer housing estates.

The voluntary organizations are unable to cope with the demands in providing additional child care services. The alternative will be for the Ministry to see if they can encourage private operators to provide child care services in the new housing estates. I note that this area has not been fully explored. I hope the Ministry will be able to provide support for private child care operators who may be able to fill the need in new housing estates where child care services are in demand.

Sir, in the area of family service and counselling programmes, a number of significant social factors will have an impact and influence on the dynamics of the family and family life in Singapore. Some of these social factors have already been identified and they centre around a number of core areas such as the declining birth rate due to declining fertility, the increasing participation of women in the workforce, continuing breakdown in the extended family pattern, delays in marriages and increasing number of persons in singlehood. All these factors have important bearing on the current and future programmes for work with families. Consequently, it will have implications in the way in which services provided both by the Governmental and voluntary social service sectors will have to be organized. I envisage that in future the neighbourhoods of the housing estates in future will have to play a greater role to complement and support some of the services that are needed to be organized for the families. In this respect, Sir, I want to know whether the Ministry is planning to establish programmes to strengthen work with families. There is a need to look at this more critically because the family is a fundamental unit and, in fact, there is a need to provide more support in this direction. More programmes can be planned to deal with families that may be in need of support.

The Minister of State for Community Development (Dr Seet Ai Mee): Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Member for Tiong Bahru GRC for his comments and I assure him that more child care centres will be built in the financial year 1989/1990. 50 child care centres were built in the 1988/89 financial year at the rate of about 1 a week. As at 14th January 1989, there are 170 child care centres or 10,105 places, and there will be 6 more by the end of this month, and 40 more by the end of the year.

As to his request for private operators, I am glad to inform him that there is a scheme to enable private operators to set up child care centres. This is a pilot scheme and the centres will be set up in HDB void decks and this will be implemented in 12 blocks. Conversion cost estimated at about $1.6 million will be met by the Government and these centres will be tendered out to private child care operators. However, as it is not appropriate to charge nominal rent as Government should not be subsidizing profit-making enterprises, the tendered out price, we expect, will fetch market rents. These 12 void deck child care centres which will have capacities ranging from 70 to 90 children will be designed and fitted with features similar to non-profit child care centres.

I am also encouraged by the concern of the Member for Tiong Bahru GRC in the areas of marriage counselling and parenting. The Report of the Advisory Council on Community and Family Life has not been published yet. But the Member is right in that it did not recommend the setting up of a special family relations unit to assist our law makers. As the Ministry of Community Development has a Family Service Unit and has family counsellors, it will be more effective for us to strengthen this Unit. And we will also tap on the expertise of professionals in the private sector who have counselling and conciliatory skills to promote family relationships.

The Parent Education Programme which was started in 1984 has the objective of helping parents in the challenging task of parenting. And I note that in many areas and in many Housing Board estates, there are programmes in CCs and in RCs where lectures, talks and videos are shown to the community about parenting. While most people are responsible parents and want the best for their children, many are not fully aware of the demands of parenthood or are misguided in their approaches to child upbringing. Parents today need to be equipped with the basic skills of caring, disciplining, relating to their children and acquiring understanding of their children's physical and also social needs.

The Parent Education Programme (PEP) is coordinated by MCD functions under an advisory council. It consists of members from related Government departments, voluntary welfare organizations, private specialists in the field. In this way, MCD benefits from advice from all different sectors. I am sure you all know about the annual family week in June which focuses attention on family living and the PEP. This continues with a year-long programme of workshops, talks, forums and discussions, as earlier mentioned at CCs, RCs or wherever we are invited to participate. Posters, pamphlets, exhibitions, Radio and TV filmlets and jingles constitute our public education publicity. TV commercials like "Give Your Child Some Time", "Make Time To Be Together" and "Have You Spent Time With Your Child Today", all prepared under the auspices of the PEP, have been well received by our target groups.

The MCD is currently looking into the integration of the PEP with the Family Life Education Programme of the Ministry of Health to ensure that there will be no duplication or overlap and to ensure that there will be no conflicting messages projected to the public. And we will continue to encourage various organizations, eg:- VWOs, unions, cultural clubs, CCs, schools and religious organizations to incorporate parent education activities into their programmes. The parent education programme reinforces our belief in the family as the basic unit of our society and its continuing programme will maintain, focus on, and give support to the importance of the family.

We will take up your other suggestions.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, may I seek clarification from the Minister? I am interested in the 12 child care centres that have been proposed to be built in void deck blocks. May I know from the Minister whether her Ministry has already decided where these child care centres will be built? And whether or not Potong Pasir is included in the programme?

Dr Seet Ai Mee: The answer to the first question is yes, Mr Speaker, Sir. And the answer to the second question is no.

Dr Vasoo: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (4), 13 minutes. Mr Chay.

Mr Chay Wai Chuen (Brickworks GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JE 1500 of the Main Estimates.

First, I must thank the Minister earlier for mentioning that the Government has basically accepted the Report of the Advisory Council on the Aged. I would seek his indulgence, however, for some clarifications in certain specific areas. In spite of his earlier announcement, I would still go on with my questions.

In the Report of the Advisory Council on the Aged, it was recommended that the Government should provide the following types of assistance and support to the voluntary welfare organizations in the running of the homes for the aged. First, in converting short-term leases of buildings currently occupied by voluntary homes to long-term leases of 30 years, as many of these present homes are housed in buildings which have very short leases. This would enable the private organizations to plan better in the services for the aged. Secondly, in providing purpose-built homes if conversions of such leases are not possible. Thirdly, it was recommended that the Goverment bear the capital and the recurrent cost of voluntary homes on a cost sharing basis with the voluntary welfare organization or the Community Chest of Singapore.

I would like to find out,firstly, whether the Minister plansto adopt this proposal of helping the private volunteer welfare organizations obtain the extended leases for their buildings, bearing in mind that this will greatly relieve the load on the Government. Secondly, I would like to find out whether the Ministry would help defray the capital cost and the recurrent cost as well, as recommended. I note that the provision for the capital grant under the Development Expenditure for the Financial Year 1989 is zero under this head.

Mr Lau Ping Sum: Sir, I am glad to note that the Minister has announced the acceptance of the Report produced by the Advisory Council on the Disabled. I would like to focus my attention on one or two aspects of the Report put up by the Committee on Employment, Accessibility and Transportation for the Disabled.

Sir, as pointed out by the Committee, Singapore missed an opportunity to create a totally barrier-free environment when the public housing and urban renewal programme was launched. It further pointed out that the self-regulatory accessibility code would not work, as shown in Hong Kong which in 1985 eventually introduced a statutory code. As an independent country, we have lagged behind Hong Kong, a colony, in catering for the special needs of the disabled.

The recently announced tax rebate for renovation to buildings to improve their accessibility to the disabled is commendable. However, it is uncertain how many buildings would be renovated in the near future as a result of the tax concession. I would therefore urge the Ministry to accelerate the work towards its noble objective. Serious consideration should be given to introducing a legislated accessibility code for all new buildings. Vision 1999 would be less than inspiring if the disabled among us cannot even move freely around Singapore and play their useful roles as citizens.

The second point is connected with the question of the income tax relief for the disabled dependants which the Minister also mentioned just now. As announced by the Minister for Finance, the income tax relief for those with disabled dependants has been raised from $750 to $2,500 and appears at first sight it is a most generous provision. However, the income tax relief for those with normal children the tax relief is $1,500. So the real difference is $1,000 and the rebate is in the region of perhaps $100-$150, assuming an effective income tax rate of 10-15%. Sir, in many of these cases, for example, children with low vision, medical costs are not exactly inexpensive as we know specialists' costs can be pretty high. Special transportation has to be arranged, perhaps even a special diet has to be provided for these children. I have urged the Minister for Finance to have some flexibility in the implementation of this income tax relief for in certain cases where higher amounts are neces- sary to look after these disabled children. I would like the Minister to add his support to the appeal of Backbenchers to ask for greater flexibility in the implementation of this relief.

Mr Loh Meng See (Kampong Glam): ( In Mandarin): Mr Chairman, I would like to touch upon public assistance.

I am happy to note that the trend is towards the decline in the number of Public Assistance recipients from 3,874 in 1986 to 3,420 projected in the new financial year.

Despite this, the cost of operating the department handling the Public Assistance cases is projected to go up with no additional benefits going to the PA recipients.

Would the Minister give sympathetic consideration to the plight of these PA recipients? I am aware that the present rate of $130 pm was revised not too long ago but other rates and costs are all going up. The Government has itself acknowledged the need to adjust the CPF minimum sum scheme. I, therefore, urge the MCD to spare a thought to these PA recipients.

I am sure that the state can afford to provide more financial help to these PA recipients who have after all met the stringent criteria for social welfare.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am in full support of the previous speaker about giving assistance to the poor and the needy.

The Government has already said that one of its priorities is to look after the lower income group and the poor. But as far as we know, Sir, so far as public assistance is concerned, Government has done nothing very much. It uses the means test and the means test is most humiliating. Most people would fight shy of it, and with this means test Government has effectively cut off a large number of people who should be on public assistance.

The PAP philosophy has always been that if you should give public assistance to the poor and the needy, then it would make them improvident and indolent, and the virtues of enterprise, self-confidence in work ethics, might be eroded. They have given no concrete examples of such allegations, and I do not think the Ministers who have said this really believe in it themselves. Sir, public assistance decreased year by year. In 1966 there were 22,000 recipients and the amount of P.A. was $12.4 million. The latest figures I have got are from 1983 Year Book. 3,200 recipients and the amount of P.A. was $3.2 million. After 1983, all such figures have been covered up. I do not find any of them in the Year Books after that. Maybe in future the Minister will let us know more of such facts.

Recently the PA seems to have been increased only during election years. In 1984 PA was increased for one person to $90, for two persons to $140, for three persons to $180 and for four persons to $220. In 1988, last year, because it was election year, PA was again increased for one person to $120, for two persons to $185, for three persons to $240, and for four persons to $295. The Committee on Destitute Families has released a report, and it complains that its Chief Statistician on December 1987 has listed that the current minimum sum that a household of four can live on is $389. The Committee says that the figure should be at least $500. That would be the poverty line for a family of four in Singapore. I am really surprised that this figure should have been given. Because early in 1980 the Singapore Council of Social Services had already carried out a study, and it should at that time, 1980, Sir, the basic monthly household requirements for food, clothing, rent, PUB charges, transport, household upkeep, etc. for a destitute person came to $120, for a widow plus three children $337, for a man plus three children $436. In other words, the poverty line in 1980 was already $436. 10 years have elapsed, inflation has pushed prices of everything up. Hospital charges especially have gone up many, many times. Yet we have PA having been revised only twice, hardly not even twice, only once. By right, if we should go according to the purchasing power of money, then PA for one person should be at least $240, for a widow and three children it should be $674, and for a man and three children it should be $872. That would be the poverty line for Singapore today.

The Chairman: Dr Lee, we are running out of time.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: I will finish very quickly.

The Chairman: All right.

Dr Lee Siew-Choh: I support the recommendation to give vouchers for the poor to pay for flat rentals and utility bills, but I think the PA should be substantially increased to fit in with the circumstances of today. If the Government could give $169 million to top civil servants and Ministers, (and do not forget, Singapore is supposed to be one of the 20 richest countries in the world) I see no reason why we should not be able to really help the poor and the needy. The Government should not pass the buck to other people. The Government should be responsible and its responsibility is not to utter platitudes but to give real concrete help to the people.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, I go straight to the clarifications that Mr Chay Wai Chuen asked. He asked for three clarifications. One is on converting short term leases to long term leases and building purpose-built homes if conversion is not possible. I would say, yes, we have taken up the cases of these organizations which are currently on short term leases to help them to convert into long term leases and the appropriate authorities are definitely giving serious consideration to all of them. If conversion is not possible we will also try to help them to build purpose-built homes.

As regards the capital grants and recurrent cost for such homes to operate, I would say that my Ministry and the Ministry of Finance are working out a scheme to provide a subvention to these organizations through the Community Chest, but of course we have to examine each case on its own merit. We just cannot say, "Here is $X for you to carry on with your operation". We would have to examine each case on its own merits and I can assure the Member that we will be as compassionate as possible.

As for Mr Lau Ping Sum's question on the disabled's accessibility and employment, the Council of Social Service actually has started a production sheltered workshop as well as a job placement and vocational assessment centre in Joo Chiat to help these disabled people. The Ministry of National Development has decided to expeditiously introduce an accessibility code to provide for a barrier-free environment. This code is targetted to be introduced some time in the middle of this year.

The Ministry of National Development has also formed a Committee to coordinate the efforts of the URA, the HDB, the PWD, Parks and Recreation Department in providing a comprehensive barrier-free environment for the disabled. PWD by itself has also set up a walk-way unit to oversee the implementation of the long term walk-way redevelopment programme. They will take into account the needs of the disabled.

As regards Mr Loh Meng See's question and also Dr Lee Siew-Choh's question that the PA grants in the budget have not increased, let me assure them that the PA grants have actually increased. For example, 1982, we spent about $3.7 million on 3,259 PA recipients and in the year 1987 there were 2,960 recipients and the Government gave out $3.4 million and for the year 1988 there were only 2,880 recipients and the Government gave out $4.15 million. The question may naturally arise as to how come PA recipients declined in number. The reason is really very simple - it is because 90% of the PA recipients are 60 years old and above. 90% of them are in single-person households and 6% of them are in two-person households and the rest of them are with family with children. The amount of money given out in 1988 has increased as a result of the study that we made. We said that every two years we will do a review of the PA rates and we have carried this out in 1986 and in 1988. In 1986, after the review in 1984, we found that there was no substantial increase in the cost of living because inflation was low. In 1988 we decided to make an adjustment. We will do a review again in 1990.

Means test is necessary, Sir, to ensure that only those who are deserving receive public assistance. If not, we will definitely create a dependency mentality. I can assure Dr Lee Siew-Choh that if we have no means test and we do give, as he suggests, $872 for a man with three children, and $674 for a widow with three children, then I can assure him that there will be many people who would not want to work.

There have been many studies done by private organizations, by the Council of Social Services and lately by the Advisory Council's Committee on Destitute Families about what is the minimum amount of expenditure that is needed. The Government can only depend on one source and that is the source of the Chief Statistician. If there is any query on the basis of the calculation, we will ask the Chief Statistician to look at the basis of the calculation and to do a review when the time comes. But the Government can only depend on one source.

Mr Chay Wai Chuen: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (5) - Encik Wan Hussin - five minutes.

Encik Wan Hussin bin Haji Zoohri (Aljunied GRC): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JF 1500 of the Main Estimates.

On 16th November 1987, the composer of our National Anthem, Encik Zubir Said or better known as Pak Zubir passed away. He has bequeathed to Singaporeans something which we all can be proud of, ie, the National Anthem. He was reported to have said that what made him compose the National Anthem was the people and the life in Singapore. He was bestowed the national honour of Darjah Utama Temasek.In this respect, Sir, may I ask the Minister what efforts have been made by the Ministry towards recognizing the contributions of the late composer. Perhaps he would consider some of these suggestions I have.

Firstly, would a scholarship in music be named after him to be awarded to talented local musicians to further their musical career? Secondly, would the Ministry undertake to compile and document the works done by the composer during his lifetime? Thirdly, would the Oral History Department of the Ministry be commissioned to record his life history and his contributions? Lastly, two local writers have published a book on his biography. Would the Ministry undertake to translate this book into other languages for the benefit of all Singaporeans?

Mr Lau Ping Sum: ( In Mandarin): Sir, I have another amendment. Can I have added time to move the two together?

Sir, our economic achievement is a recognized fact. In order to achieve quick returns Singaporeans sometimes unduly stress on short-term result. Therefore, they are eager to achieve instant success and quick profits. In a comercial environment there is very intense competition. This situation not only appears in Singapore but also obtains in Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea. Because of limited domestic markets in their own countries and protected foreign markets, there is very keen competition. Therefore, those who can adapt to the situation will survive, those who cannot will be eliminated.

The commercial world is just like the battle field, appearances can be deceptive. So human compassion and consideration are on the decline. In order to get a greater share of the market and higher profits the entrepreneurs will try all the tricks of the trade to get what they want. After-office entertainment and enjoyment of life have become routine. This is most apparent in Taiwan. Recently the Minister of State for Education and Community Development has been to Taiwan to study moral education. Has she noticed that sex trade is most active in Taiwan? When we want to study moral education, have we chosen the right place?

Other than the tangible material life there is the spiritual life. That includes cultural life, family life and a compas- sionate society. If one were to pursue only material enjoyment, then life is meaningless. Cultural pursuits will enrich one's life, mould a common sense of belonging and help promote social cohesion as we progress towards a more meaningful and gracious society. We have several thousand years of cultural tradition. We should promote and adapt certain aspecsts of our heritage which are suitable for the present. In the past, our country has devoted its attention to economic development. Therefore, cultural development has not been given the same emphasis. During the initial stages of our nation building when our economic foundation had not been well laid, such a policy could not be faulted. From now on, we must redouble our efforts to promote our cultural activities in order to enrich our people's cultural life and create a new image.

Our civic cultural groups, whether in the fields of music, arts or performing arts, have in the past been quite active, but there were relatively few active participants. Therefore, I hope the Ministry of Community Development will provide the most appropriate facilities to help in terms of human resources, financial support and physical facilities. For instance, for members of these groups, the activities are carried out after office hours. Therefore, we hope that when the Ministry convenes a meeting, it should be held after office hours in order not to cause them inconvenience.

This year, the allocation for cultural activity is about $4,019,000. Last year, the allocation was $3,500,000. The increase has been 14.7%, but it is only 2.7% of the total allocation of $149 million for the Ministry of Community Development.

The Chairman: Mr Lau, you want to allow some time for a reply?

Mr Lau Ping Sum: ( In Mandarin): I am finishing. This is a very insignificant figure. I hope in future the allocation will increase every year so that Singapore will not only be well-known in South East Asia for our economic development but also famous throughout the world for our rich cultural life.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: Sir, the late Zubir Said who composed our National Anthem was conferred the Sijil Kemuliaan,(the Certificate of Honour) in June 1962, for his musical contributions. Sijil Kemuliaan is the third highest National Day award, ranking only after the Star of Temasek and the Order of Temasek. In memory of the great composer, especially Pak Zubir's contributions, the Singapore Cultural Foundation, which operates under my Ministry's aegis, has embarked on the Zubir Said Song Collection project to produce a publication documenting his life and music. Materials for the publication, which is sponsored by Berita Harian, have been gathered through a community effort involving the Central Council of Malay Cultural Organizations, friends and associates of Pak Zubir and his family. Materials in the collections of the Singapore Broadcasting Corporation, National Archives and Oral History Department will also be used to strengthen the contents of the publication.

As to the suggestion for a scholarship in music and oral history documentation of his life and history and also translation of the book by the two local authors, may I offer to Encik Wan Hussin that we will be looking into this and seeing how we can get sponsorships for this situation.

Sir, I thank the Member for Yio Chu Kang for his interest in culture and his helpful observations and comments. Yes, I did go to Taiwan recently but as I am of the wrong sex I did not manage to see the sex trade he was mentioning. My Minister has answered part of his comments about a better life in his answer to the GPC Chairman. While the Ministry can provide and encourage the growth of a conducive environment for culture to grow and flourish in Singapore, the successful cultural development in Singapore must depend to a large extent on the efforts of the public, the corporate citizens and interested cultural organizations working in concert. To harness their views on future cultural promotion, the Advisory Council on Culture and the Arts was set up in April last year. The Council was tasked to review current problems and propose solutions in an action plan to lead us to the cultural vision of 1999. While the Council has yet to submit its report, its three committees have identified five main problems in Singapore.

Firstly, lack of funds which constrains their level of activity. Secondly, a small audience support and shortage of trained manpower. Thirdly, a limited talent pool. Fourthly, facilities which are sub-standard, and fifthly, complex licensing procedures. The Member must recognize that while procedures to facilitate licensing and funding can be addressed almost immediately, the problems of our limited talent pool and poor audience support are long term ones.

Arising from these findings, the Committees have made recommendations for the improvement of the system of art education, etc, and these are now being considered by the Council which is expected to submit its report to the Government shortly. I am confident that there will be improvement in our cultural scene in the years ahead following from this report.

I also note that the Member has expressed concern about premises given to cultural organizations. Since 1985, my Ministry has housed 23 organizations in four vacant buildings and this has enabled them to increase their artistic output. However, because these buildings are old and they have been vandalised in some instances, much money has to be put into renovating the buildings and, in one case, because the group did not have enough funds to upgrade the power mains to the building. Because of this, the use of air-conditioners necessary to reduce noise interference had to be strictly controlled, otherwise power trips occurred due to heavy power demand. My Ministry will look into other ways of improving the scheme to house arts organizations.

In the area of culture, the MCD relies heavily on volunteers who are experts in their fields. We are grateful for the many hours they have given and are giving and will continue to give in what can only be termed as a "labour of love". I am as concerned as the Member that our volunteers are made to take hours off work. My Ministry has now made it a point to schedule meetings beginning between 4.30 and 5.00 pm but there have been circumstances where this has not been possible. This is especially so last year in the case of the volunteers serving on the four Committees set up under the Advisory Council on Culture and the Arts. As the Council had to finalize its deliberations within a time schedule, these Committees found it necessary to hold regular meetings even during normal office hours in order to complete their reports. For this reason, the volunteer members had to take time off to attend these meetings. I would like at this point to express my appreciation, firstly, to the volunteers and, secondly, to their supportive employers, in their service to the cultural development of the nation.

Encik Wan Hussin bin Haji Zoohri: Sir, I thank the Minister of State for her encouraging reply but I hope the current compilation work by the Ministry could be expedited as it has taken slightly more than a year to complete. On that note, I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (7), 5 minutes. Dr Vasoo.

Dr Vasoo: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JG 2100 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the first phase libraries which were built in the 1960s and 1970s are too small and inadequate in terms of facilities. To name a few libraries, such as in Queenstown, Bukit Merah and Toa Payoh, they are to some extent out of date. The readers who are using these libraries feel a greenhouse effect, in the sense that it creates a lot of discomfort to many of the users of these libraries. Moreover, these libraries do not cater for students who want to do their homework and other related reference work.

I think the facilities of the libraries, particularly those in the older housing estates, need to be upgraded in order to allow more students to use them. We must encourage our younger students to use the libraries for their learning. Sir, the upgrading of the libraries is more urgent in old housing estates, and I hope that some steps will be taken.

Mr Chew Heng Ching: Mr Chairman, Sir, in line with Dr Vasoo's call for the Government to upgrade libraries in old housing estates, I would like to ask the Minister to consider upgrading the Central library, which is the National Library. I think the present environment in this library is very crammed and congested. Facilities are grossly inadequate and the place at peak hours looks pathetic.

Sir, as our population becomes more literate and better educated, the demand for library services would increase. And with the availability of MRT, many Singaporeans do not mind travelling to the National Library to read and to borrow books. I think Singaporeans deserve a better national library. A good national library, well equipped and centrally located, is in line with our overall objective to improve the quality of life and it is also symbolic of a middle class society.

Sir, I wish to ask the Minister if the Ministry has any plan to upgrade the existing National Library or perhaps, even better still, build a new one.

The Chairman: Dr Seet, you have two minutes to reply.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: I start by answering to the question addressed by the Member for Eunos GRC. I agree with him that the facilities over the years for the National Library have become inadequate to meet the increasing demand for library services. I have good news for the Member for Eunos GRC.

My Ministry plans to build a modern national library with bigger space and incorporating up-to-date facilities. This has the in-principle approval of the Government. My Ministry has made a study of library designs in Australia and is in the process of engaging a consultant for the project.

Now, to reply to the Member for Tiong Bahru GRC. Over the years, the older branch libraries have been upgraded to provide the same facilities as the newer ones. In answer to the greenhouse effects, Queenstown Branch installed air-conditioning in 1978 and upgraded its lecture rooms into an auditorium in 1983. Toa Payoh Branch installed air-conditioning in 1982 and constructed an entrance ramp and installed a passenger lift for the disabled readers in 1983 and 1985 respectively.

Today, actually, the older branch libraries provide the same facilities and offer the same services to their readers as the newer branches. Older branch libraries have the advantage of having a larger book collection built over a longer period of time.

To his question about seating in the library, Mr Chairman, Sir, a library's main objective is to serve members of the public who wish to borrow books or consult reference materials. They are not meant for students to study in. Students should study in their homes, schools or reading rooms provided by community centres or in education centres in the constituency when these are not in use. Seats are provided in the National Library and its branches for people, including students, who browse through the books before deciding whether to borrow them, and, they are also meant for those who do research in the libraries.

Dr Vasoo: I beg to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (8), six minutes. Dr Ong.

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JI 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, the National Museum, National Archives and Oral History Department play a vital role in the preservation of our heritage and the development of our very own national identity. My question is: are they receiving adequate funding and support from the Government? I doubt so. A very small sum, for example, is allocated to the National Museum for its acquisition programme. It could hardly acquire anything of significance, yet it is supposed to be a repository of our national treasures. I also believe that to upgrade and develop these departments fully, we need to appoint consultants or experts. Yet hardly any funds are allocated for this purpose.

The programme of these departments would be enhanced if there is better coordination of their work. There is at present no senior professional person to coordinate and direct their activities, though they all report to the administrative Deputy Secretary or Permanent Secretary. For other professional services, there is the Director of Medical Services or Director of Education. Indeed, coordination is perhaps difficult as the three departments have their separate advisory or development committees.

Sir, the public is hardly aware of the activities of these departments. Perhaps there should be more funding and better ideas for its publicity and education programmes, and a bigger exhibition hall at their Hill Street premises.

Besides the departments in MCD, other departments and agencies are also involved in the preservation of our heritage, for example, STPB, URA, PMB, Sentosa Development Corporation, SAF museum and PSA museum.

I think there should be an inter-ministry committee, chaired by MCD, to coordinate and integrate the various programmes, so that funds are well spent and there is no overlap of functions.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: Mr Chairman, Sir, regarding the National Museum, National Archives and Oral History Department, each has specific areas of interest which requires specialized knowledge and each is headed by a Director and assisted by various subordinate specialists. While the three Departments work under the central policy direction of MCD, I agree with the MP that more coordination in the areas common to the three Departments would provide greater benefit. As a start towards greater coordination, my Ministry has set up, early this year, a Coordinating Committee, chaired by the Deputy Secretary of the Ministry, which is looking into common areas of work by the three Departments and determining how common solutions can be identified for the benefit of all. This includes areas like conservation, exhibitions and preservation. In the long run, we intend to work towards a closer integration of the work of the three departments.

With reference to his suggestion that an inter ministerial committee be set up for better coordination of Singapore-wide programmes, I will take this up at our next ministerial meeting.

With regard to his suggestion that we should have senior professional specialists to advise our Heritage Department, it is a good one. But, in practice, such a person does not exist. A person who is an expert in all 3 heritage areas would be a verydifficult person to find, and, at present we do not know of such a person in Singapore. We are also unaware of any other country which has the arrangement of someone who has expertise in oral history, in archival history as well as in the national museum. I would be very obliged if the Member for Bukit Batok could let us know how this is done in other countries and, if he has any suggestions, I would be very glad to have them.

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Just a point of clarification. This person need not be a specialist but a historian of general standing or of certain stature. But in view of the Minister's explanation, I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (9), 10 minutes. Mr Chay is not moving. Dr Tan Cheng Bock.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock (Ayer Rajah): Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JJ 1500 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, I move this amendment wo that I have the opportunity to tell this House how grateful I am to the civil servants who manned the Feedback Unit, my panel members, the numerous resource members and the many Singaporeans, including shopowners, hawkers, taxi-drivers, and the professionals.

Running an outfit like the Feedback Unit is not an easy one. Although one of its original aims was just to listen and pass the feedback to the Government, the Unit went beyond its role by adopting a pro- active stand and went out to seek the views of many Singaporeans on many matters, sensitive and otherwise. In so doing, we have stepped on the toes of many people, including a few Frontbenchers. It was all in the line of duty. But I must admit that they responded positively most of the time, that is, after many exchanges of correspondence and personal contact. To carry out this duty, my colleagues and I spent many nights, especially in its early formative years, moving from community centre to community centre, holding dialogue sessions with associations, societies, and different groups of Singaporeans, so as to get a feel of the ground. Not only gathering feedback was our objective, but we also exchanged ideas, clarified government policies, gave them information, and explained government policies in an environment in which everyone was at ease to talk with. There was this free exchange of views.

I must admit that in the beginning it was confrontational - the people against the Government, them against us. But as the Unit grew and we learned from some of our earlier mistakes, tempers cooled and sanity prevailed, and we realize that Singaporeans are not just the complaining kind. They have good ideas and they want to share. Our initial worry that the dialogue sessions would be just grousing sessions turned out not to be so. Technique, style of approach to issue, sharing and understanding their concerns, putting across points not in the manner, "we know best" attitude, helped a great deal.

Above all, it is the behind-the-scene approach of my Unit that is most time-consuming but many a time rewarding. I remember having to chase five departments, including the Ministry of National Development, the Ministry of Education, URA, MRT, National Preservation Board, to try to resolve the resettlement of the Malabar Street Temple. In that exercise I made sure that no bulldozers got too close to the temple while negotiations were under way. It was not easy getting a very old temple, claimed to be more than 100 years old, to be demolished for progress. Tempers were high. And worse still, this happened in the midst of the recession when businessmen needed help from whatever source, including praying to their Gods. But I must point out that the various Government departments did give the Unit their support and I do appreciate their contributions. The Feedback Unit is beginning to gain acceptance. I wish the new Chairman and new panel members all the best and would encourage Singaporeans from all walks of life to continue to support the Unit.

Dr Ong Chit Chung: Sir, on the CCCs and RCs, I think there should be better coordination between these two sets of grassroots organizations. The younger RCs could then tap the experience and contacts of the more established CCCs, while the CCCs could utilize the manpower and mobilizing zeal of the RCs. To enhance coordination, I suggest that the staff of the CCCs and the RC secretariats be integrated. This will also cut down duplication, maximize their effectiveness and perhaps save us some costs in terms of manpower. A combined secretariat could then be set up for each constituency or GRC.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I know that Dr Tan Cheng Bock did not expect me to reply. Perhaps I would like to say that in his valedictory speech, not swan song, he has made known the work of the Feedback Unit. Indeed, as a result of his dedication, his commitment and his efforts and those of the panel members, the Feedback Unit has gained a lot of support from the public. They have worked very hard in building the Feedback Unit. The Feedback Unit has benefited a lot from his advice and they have helped to improve the rapport between the Government and the people. Despite the passing of the baton to a new Chairman and perhaps to a different personality, I have no doubt that the Feedback Unit will receive guidance and support from the new Chairman in the execution of the duties and they will continue to actively seek the views of the people in carrying out their role.

The First Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Goh Chok Tong): You should thank him.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Yes, I thank him, of course. I would just leave my Minister of State, Mr Chng, to reply to the other points.

The Minister of State for Community Development (Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon): Sir, the CCCs and RCs, together with other grassroots organizations, play a vital role in community development and nation building. They help forge a sense of community, improve communication between the people and the Government and foster in our people a social conscience and a spirit of voluntarism. They are doing good work and deserve all the support and encouragement we can give them to enable them to better serve the community. I therefore share the hon. Member's concern about the efficiency of the secretariat services provided for the CCCs and RCs.

Sir, the Community Life Committee set up under the Advisory Council on Family and Community Life noted the greater role grassroots organizations will play in fostering a participatory community. The Committee therefore recommended that the CCC District Secretariats and the RC Group Secretariats be merged into a common network of Secretariats to provide better support to the CCCs and RCs. This move will streamline procedures and minimize duplication of efforts. We are now working out the details of this recommendation for implementation by the end of the year. This move, together with the guidance of the CCC/RC advisers, will enhance the coordination of grassroots activities and improve the service of the CCCs and RCs in each constituency.

Dr Tan Cheng Bock: I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (10), Encik Wan Hussin.

Encik Wan Hussin bin Hj Zoohri: I am not speaking, Sir.

The Chairman: Amendment No. (11), Mr Abdullah Tarmugi, 13 minutes.

Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Sir, I beg to move,

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of Code JL 3100 of the Main Estimates.

Sir, those in my age group or older will remember how we used to reign supreme in the Thomas Cup competitions. There was a time when the whole nation, irrespective of race, religion or culture, used to identify themselves with people like of Wong Peng Soon, Ong Poh Lin, Eddy Choong and the rest.

An hon. Member: And Ismail Marjan.

Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Ismail Marjan too. And every boy or girl who held a racket saw Wong Peng Soon in the Thomas Cup as a symbol which motivated them to train, to play the game, to strive and to excel. But ever since then, that enthusiasm, that mood, has somehow subsided and, I think, to a point where it has disappeared at all.

We launched into a Sports for All policy. In essence, this was sound, given our priorities and given the kind of constraints we face. But sports was given a somewhat reluctant, and some would even say perfunctory, attention by Government, employers and even parents. The nation turned into a nation of weekend sports persons and sports feature in their daily lives only when they have time and only when they felt like it.

Sir, I am therefore heartened by the recommendations of the Advisory Council for Sports and Recreation and I am glad to note, as mentioned by the Minister earlier, that 40 of the 43 recommendations by the Council have been accepted by the Government. I am especially concerned with those recommendations under section 4.3 of the Report under Nation Building Through International Champions. Can the Minister elaborate on this in this House Government's commitment on these recommendations and Government's plans to support the Singapore Sports Council, employers and schools in building a conducive sports environment in this country?

Encik Ibrahim Othman (Bedok GRC): Sir, the Government launched its Sports for All policy in 1973. Since then, thousands of Singaporeans have participated in various mass events organized by the SSC. We have also participated in the various international and regional competitions such as the Olympics and SEA Games.

Sir, recently the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation published its Report and made some recommendations to the Government. Among the recommendations, I wish to cite two:

(1) Giving special support to sports in which Singaporeans can excel.

(2) Creating and sustain an environment that is conducive to the further growth of sports.

Sir, national sports associations in Singapore are responsible for the successful running of the various sports programmes. They are manned by volunteers and sometimes face difficulties such as lack of funds and lack of proper training facilities. Many associations have to organize fund raising activities and much precious time is taken in organizing them at the expense of training for the athletes. I wish to ask the Minister what kind of support can the Government give to our national sports associations. Secondly, whether the Government could consider giving annual financial grants to the national sports associations to lessen their financial burden.

Sir, let me end by saying that when we produce outstanding sports persons, they become role models and provide inspiration to the nation. They can instil strong feelings of patriotism in our community and thereby contribute to nation building.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin (Pasir Panjang GRC): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Advisory Council's Report on Sports and Recreation is a detailed study on attitudes, standards, trends in sports and recreation in the Republic. The Advisory Council must be commended for its in-depth study and report and its recommendations must be taken seriously.

Sir, the Report made recommendations which could undoubtedly help to improve the standing of sports and recreation in our Republic. The recommendations affect and involve mainly the Ministry of Education, Ministry of Defence, Singapore Sports Council and its various agencies. In view of this, I strongly urge the Ministry to liaise with the respective Ministries and bodies concerned to as much as possible fulfil all the recommendations as soon as possible.

I know the Minister mentioned earlier that the Government has considered and rejected the recommendation of the supernumerary scheme. However, I beg to appeal to the Government to review this decision if we want to excel in sports.

Sir, I would like to make the following observations. I was involved when I was in the SAF as the Secretary of the Singapore Armed Forces Sports Association when this scheme was implemented. The supernumerary scheme was practised in the Singapore Armed Forces from about 1968 till 1979 when it was discontinued. Under the scheme, at any one time, there were only 75 national athletes who were national champions or combined schools champions from all the various sports. And they had the privilege to continue their training while they were in the Army. The supernumerary status did not exclude athletes from all military training. In fact, they had to undergo the vigorous basic military training (BMT) and the vocational training. And they were later on distributedor posted to the various non-combat units.

During their national service, they also had to perform military duties in between their athletic training. As they form only a small number, they did not disrupt or adversely affect the SAF and its military training. We all know that those with potential as officer cadets, commanders and section leaders and many other combat units, were exempted from this scheme because we wanted them to contribute positively in the military training. Because of this scheme, we produced quite a number of good sportsmen and, in many cases, the Armed Forces excelled in all the national competitions. For example, many of the players in the national hockey team came from the SAF. They were performing very well and on par with the Malaysians, who were then and still are, one of the best in Asia. But the standard of our hockey team today is totally a different picture. Another example is that our Malaysia Cup team of the '70s could attri- bute much of its success to the good supernumerary scheme.

The Chairman: Encik Abbas, we are running out of time.

Encik Abbas Abu Amin: Yes, Sir. We produced stars like Kim Song, Seak Poh Leong and many others. What I would like the Minister to consider is to seriously review the whole scheme to concentrate only on the games recommended by the Committee.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Sir, the Government has announced that it would promote sports. But when I look at the budget allocations I only find that most of the money were given for capital development. $12.37 million to the Singapore Sports Council to take over canteens, cafeterias of sports complexes from the HDB. Then there was an increase of $2.37 million or 4.8% in grant mainly due to a large grant given to the Singapore Sports Council to meet additional recurrent expenditure on maintenance of new sports facilities. Then a sum of $2.05 million was provided as a loan to the SSC to carry out major repairs to the National Stadium. There was no mention of allocation of funds to sportsmen and their coaches. Sir, I think the Minister should look more into this area because our sportsmen are really not given enough financial support. If we want to shine in the international level, our sportsmen must be given real support.

Sir, sad to say, our sports level as far as the international standard is concerned, is at the kampong level. I think we have to do something to build up one or two champions and that will give inspiration to other sportsmen.

Sir, the Member for Yio Chu Kang has talked about culture. I think sports is, in fact, part of culture. I think it should not be downgraded. The public schools in England stressed on sports. It was said that the Battle of Waterloo was won at the playing fields of Eton. That has much to say for sports.

Sir, sports has many benefits. It is not just for the materialist aspect of getting good health. Sports builds up courage, character of a person, disciplines him, teaches him fair play, his ability to take defeat and get him into the right spirit of cooperation with others. And as regards the social level, sports is a very good means of getting social cohesion because if people are really interested in sports, whether he is a company director or he is a labourer, they will get together for a common pursuit.

Sir, above all, our schools should encourage our children to enjoy sports. I think that is the key, not to tell them, "If you take up sports you will be healthy." I do not think we should approach in that aspect. Teach him to enjoy, teach him to acquire a skill for life and the health aspect of it will come with it.

The Chairman: Mr Chiam, can you wind up? There are still a number of persons who want to speak.

Mr Chiam See Tong: Of course, in the communist countries and the eastern countries they excel in sports for a specific purpose. Sir, that is to prove to other countries their social system is better. They might be true in certain aspects. But in Singapore today, I think our emphasis just on academic excellence is really lop-sided. There should be a balance up with some sporting activities so that our children can really grow up to be developed all round.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: Mr Chairman, Sir, how many minutes do I have?

The Chairman: Two minutes.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: In that event, I shall just answer the questions ad hoc as they were raised.

What is our stand on grants for national sports association? The Singapore Sports Council will give grants on a case-by-case basis and many national sports associations have benefitted from these grants. Our Singapore National Olympics Council have also received funds for this purpose.

In answer to the Member for Potong Pasir, there is a sports fund for sportsmen, managed by the Singapore Sports Council and this grant is also granted on a case-by-case basis.

Mr Chiam See Tong: How much?

Mr Wong Kan Seng: $5 million.

Dr Seet Ai Mee: Is that enough, $5 million? Mr Chairman, Sir, I also find the comments from the Member for Potong Pasir very strange. He is commenting that money is being spent on capital. Other people are asking for money to be spent on capital and here he seems to be criticizing us for money being spent on capital. In the Report of the Advisory Council on Sports and Recreation, comment was made that the Singapore Sports Council will have to construct special facilities to cater for all new activities to be introduced. So every year money will be set aside for capital funding for the Singapore Sports Council. I think he should be glad rather than critical because one cannot be a good sportsman if there are no sports facilities available.

As for the comments by Maj. Abbas about the standing of sports, we will have to take a long time to re-establish the slow standing of sports and, as he well knows, he sat on many committees where this was discussed. He has been instrumental in many of the recommendations and these are still being evaluated. The recommendations have been forwarded to the Ministries of Defence and Education and the Singapore Sports Council and these will be taking up the recommendations. The implementation and the monitoring will be done at the Ministry of Community Development.

Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Encik Ibrahim Othman: (In Malay): Mr Chairman, I beg to move.

That the sum to be allocated for Head J be reduced by $10 in respect of JM 3100 of the Main Estimates.

Under Sections 87 and 88 of the Administration of Muslim Law Act (AMLA), the Muslim Religious Council (MUIS) is responsible for the administra- tion and management of Islamic religious education in Singapore. MUIS has carried out this task effectively. It has strengthened its Education Unit, and recently mooted the idea of setting up an Advisory Council on Islamic Religious Education to provide guidelines and set the direction for education in Singapore. I wish to congratulate MUIS for making these moves aimed at streamlining the religious education system in Madrasahs (Islamic schools), mosques and schools, etc.

Mr Chairman, most parents send their children to religious classes on a part time basis, particularly those run by the mosques. This is because their children attend secular schools in the morning or the afternoon. Students of secular schools attend these part-time religious classes two or three times a week. They sometimes face problems when they have a lot of homework to do or study after school, especially when the examinations are near.

I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Muslim Affairs three questions: (1) What are the steps MUIS could take to upgrade the part-time religious education for the benefit of students of our secular schools; (2) What can MUIS do to co-ordinate Islamic religious education in the mosques and madrasahs and other Islamic institutions? (3) What would be the role of Advisory Council on Islamic Religious Education when it is set up?

Encik Yatiman Yusof (Tampines GRC): ( In Malay): Sir, I would like to join the Member for Bedok GRC in welcoming the moves made by the Muslim Religious Council (MUIS) to implement some of the provisions of the Administration of Muslim Law Act. The question I would like to ask is considering that these measures will involve the training of religious teachers, what steps are being taken to improve the capabilities, skills and professional standards of the teaching staff of religious schools. (2) What steps are being taken to improve the curriculum of local religious schools? (3) Since only 10% of graduates of these religious schools would have the opportunity to go to university and then to return to serve in positions befitting their skills and qualifications, what steps are being taken to ensure that the resourcs of the rest of the religious school graduates will not be wasted in the labour market? I have been informed that proficiency in English is now emphasized even for undergraduates of the Al-Azhar University. This is a good move. And I would like to suggest that, even at local religious the school level, proficiency in English ought to be enhanced so that religious school graduates could together contribute to greater Islamic knowledge and higher morality among the general student population through a better command of English.

The Minister for the Environment (Dr Ahmad Mattar): ( In Malay): Mr Chairman, I am answering in my capacity as Minister in charge of Muslim Affairs.

Mr Chairman, I would first deal with questions on the Islamic Education Unit formed recently by MUIS. At the moment there are 4 full-time madrasahs at primary and secondary levels and 1 full-time madrasah at primary level. In addition, there are part-time madrasahs run by mosques and local Muslim organizations.

With regard to part-time madrasahs in the mosques, the syllabi have been standardised since 1984. The common syllabi were formulated by a Coordinating Committee set up by MUIS in 1982, whose membership comprised representative from mosques.

As for training, Mr Chairman, I would like to state here that since last year MUIS had embarked on a training programme for religious teachers. For example, 7 religious teachers from Madrasah Aljunied, Madrasah Al-Maarif, Madrasah Alsagoff and Madrasah Wak Tanjong were sent to the Yayasan Islam Kelantan, Nilam Puri, etc, for short training courses. MUIS also conducted three short courses for 110 full-time and part-time religious teachers and administrators. In June last year MUIS organized a course on Upgrading of Teaching Methodology for 36 full-time and part-time religious teachers. Another course on Computer Workshop for Madrasahs, held on 9 December 1988, was attended by 30 full-time and part-time religious teachers and administrators. In March this year, a Seminar on Islamic Education was held and as a follow up to the Seminar, a workshop will be held to discuss the issue further and formulate guidelines and programmes to further improve Islamic Education here. MUIS is also considering a comprehensive training programme for religious teachers which includes courses on principles of education, teaching methodology, child psychology and so on. To assist the Religious Education Unit, MUIS, as mentioned earlier, is also planning to form a special Advisory Committee comprising eminent religious teachers and educationist. Among other things, this Committee will formulate guidelines on the Syllabi for Islamic religious education in Singapore.

Encik Ibrahim Othman: Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The sum of $125,710,060 for Head J ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates.

The sum of $25,633,680 for Head J ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

The Chairman: Order. It is 4.30 pm.

Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Wong Kan Seng: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1989/90, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr Speaker: So be it.