NOTARIES PUBLIC BILL

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Order for Second Reading read.

The Minister for Labour and Law (Mr K. M. Byrne): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

This Bill repeals the Notaries Public Ordinance, 1958, which has not been brought into force but re-enacts its main provisions with the modifications which are considered necessary in view of the attainment of self-government by Singapore.

It is felt that the provision whereby notaries public appointed by the Master of Faculties of the Archbishop of Canterbury are allowed to act as notaries public in Singapore is not in keeping with the new status of our State. In the past, such persons had indeed an exclusive right to act as notaries public in Singapore, but it is proposed that in future only notaries public appointed under the provisions of the Ordinance shall be entitled to exercise the functions of notaries public in Singapore.

Under the Bill, the Minister is given a discretion in the appointment of notaries public who must, however, be practising advocates and solicitors of not less than seven years' standing. The Minister may consult the Bar Committee but shall not be bound by the recommendations of the Committee. Power is given to the Minister to make rules for the guidance and control of notaries public and to fix the fees payable by and to notaries public.

Sir, I beg to move.

Question proposed.

5.42 p.m.

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, while welcoming this Bill, I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister one point that may arise out of the enactment of this Bill.

At the moment, there are notaries public practising in Singapore who had been appointed to practise here by a source extraneous to the State. When this Bill comes into operation, Mr Speaker, Sir, by virtue of clause 6, such notaries public will immediately cease to have the right to practise. By virtue of clause 3, it might take some time before persons are entitled to practise as notaries public under the Bill. Now we are a commercial city and it is very necessary to have notaries public functioning. The only point I wish to bring to the notice of the Minister is that he will not allow a hiatus to occur - that Singapore must not be for a period of time without notaries public and thereby cause commercial inconvenience.

Mr Speaker: Is the hon. Member talking on his amendments?

Mr Rajah: No, Sir. On the general principle of the Bill.

Mr Byrne: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would refer the Member for Farrer Park to clause 1 which says that this Ordinance will come into operation on such a date as the Minister may by notification in the Gazette appoint. It is the intention of Government to bring this Ordinance into force as soon as possible, but everything will depend on the procedure that we have to follow.

Mr Speaker, Sir, under the provisions of clause 3 (3), there must be an invitation to the Bar Committee to submit a list of persons who the Bar Committee considers are suitable for appointment, and if the Member for Farrer Park wants speedy action with regard to these appointments, I would suggest to him that he prods the Bar Committee into early action.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Assembly.

Assembly immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.-[Mr Byrne].

Bill considered in Committee.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

5.46 p.m.

Clause 1-

The Chairman: There is a Note:

In page 1, line 5, to leave out "1959" and insert "1960".

It is a typographical emendation. That will be done.

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 -

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

In page 2, line 4, after "be" where it secondly occurs, to insert "or act as".

Mr Speaker, Sir, the reason for this amendment is tied up really with the amendments I am moving to clause 5.

The Chairman: Will the Member please read out the amendments?

Mr Rajah: The amendments read as follows:

In page 2, line 26, to leave out "If it shall appear to the Minister that" and insert "Where",

and

In page 2, line 28, after "Court", to insert "or has been suspended from practising as an advocate and solicitor in Singapore".

Sir, to put my point as clearly as I can, it may be necessary to partially cover my amendments on clause 5.

As clauses 3 and 5 stand, they only provide for a case where a person has been struck off the roll of advocates and solicitors of the Supreme Court. But there is another way whereby a person may be stopped from practising temporarily: in other words, he may be suspended. The period of suspension may operate for as long as a year or perhaps even two or three years. So it is for that reason, Mr Speaker, Sir, that I have sought to introduce this amendment to clause 3 (2):

"No person shall be appointed to be or act as a notary public unless he is a practising advocate and solicitor of the Supreme Court and has so practised for not less than seven years." It is not a very neat way of doing it, but it was the only possible way I could do it as the Bill now stands. So that under the proposed amendment no person can act as soon as he ceases to be a practising advocate and solicitor. In other words, by operation of the law, he will cease to be a notary public, whereas in clause 5 he might have been struck off the roll on 1st February, 1960, but the Minister might not gazette under the clause till the 15th of February, 1960. So it could well be that this person could claim to act as a notary public although he has ceased to have the qualification necessary for his acting as a notary public.

It was with that purpose and intent in view, Mr Speaker, Sir, that I have introduced this amendment to clause 3 (2).

The Chairman: The Question is, "That the words proposed to be inserted, be there inserted." As indicated by the Member for Farrer Park, the debate may range over his proposed amendments to clause 5.

Mr Byrne: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would accept it as there is considerable force in what the Member for Farrer Park has just said, but I would like to draw his attention to the provisions of clause 3 (1) where it is clearly stated:

"The Minister may, from time to time, appoint fit and proper persons to be notaries public...".

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is not the intention of Government to appoint anybody to act as notary public and the Member for Farrer Park has not suggested any amendment to clause 3 (1).

The Member for Farrer Park has also referred to amendments which he is proposing to move to clause 5 of the Bill. Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the objection that he has made can be overcome - I crave your indulgence - under the provisions of Standing Order 56 (2) which would enable me to move a drafting amendment by introducing the words "suspend or" before the word "revoke" in the 4th line of clause 5 which will then read:

"...the Minister shall, by order under his hand, suspend or revoke the appointment..."

That would meet the objection of the Member for Farrer Park.

The Chairman: The Minister is probably looking at the old Standing Orders. We are now working under new Standing Orders. The present Standing Order 56 is "Order in Debate". The present Standing Order 56 (2) reads:

"Not more than one Member shall be named...".

I do not think the Minister means that!

Mr Byrne: Mr Speaker, I think the reference is to paragraph 51(2).

The Chairman: The old 5 1(2) is 71 (3).

Mr Byrne: That is the moving of amendments without notice, Sir, on the ground that an amendment is of a minor or purely drafting character.

The Chairman: I think we will deal with that point when we come to it but, in passing, I would suggest to the Minister that the amendment he is suggesting is not of a minor or purely drafting character. It goes further than that, because he seeks to insert the words "suspend or" after the word "hand," in line 29 of page 2 of the Bill. He may, of course, proceed under Standing Order 32 which reads:

"Notice shall not be dispensed with in the case of a motion or in respect of any other proceeding for which notice is required except with the consent of the Speaker and the general assent of Members present."

So that when we come to the appropriate time, perhaps the Minister would request "the consent of the Speaker and the general assent of Members present".

We are now still on clause 3. Mr Rajah.

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, the important amendment from my point of view is the amendment to clause 5. If the Minister thinks that the amendment which I have sought to put in in clause 2 is untidy and not appropriate, I am quite prepared to withdraw it. But the important point, from the practical point of view, is the amendment to clause 5. Sir, in view of that, can I have leave to withdraw my amendment to clause 3 (2)?

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 5 -

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

In page 2, line 26, to leave out "If it shall appear to the Minister that" and insert "Where",

In page 2, line 28, after "Court", to insert "or has been suspended from practising as an advocate and solicitor in Singapore",

and the Note:

In page 2, to leave out the, marginal note to clause 5 and insert "Revocation of appointments.".

The Chairman: The proper procedure, of course, is for the Member to move the first amendment and then ask for leave for the debate to range over the other amendments.

Mr Rajah: Sir, may I ask for leave for the debate to range over the other two amendments at the same time?

The Chairman: Leave is granted.

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, it seems to me, on reading the clause as it now stands:

"If it shall appear to the Minister that any person being a notary public has been struck off the roll of advocates and solicitors of the Supreme Court the Minister shall, by order under his hand, revoke the appointment of such person and shall cause such order to be published in the Gazette.".

that the first comment I have to make is on:

"If it shall appear to the Minister that ...".

Between the time when a person is struck off the roll and the time when "it appears to the Minister", there might be an interval of two, four or five weeks. One does not know. So it could well be that the notary public might consider himself entitled to practise as a notary public between the time he is struck off and the time his name is published in the Gazette under the provisions of clause 5. That was the first thing that struck me, Mr Speaker.

The second thing was that a person ceases to be a practising advocate and solicitor when, first, he is struck off the roll and, second, he is suspended. For the period of his suspension, he is not entitled to carry on the practice of an advocate and solicitor. Clause 5 merely deals with the case of a notary public who has been struck off the roll of advocates and solicitors of the Supreme Court and leaves untouched the case of a person who has been suspended from practising as an advocate and solicitor in Singapore. Could this then mean that the Minister might not have power to strike off the person who has been suspended and that he can only strike off the person who has been struck off the roll?

In order to make the position absolutely clear and safe, I have moved:

In page 2, line 28, after "Court", to insert "or has been suspended from practising as an advocate and solicitor in Singapore".

On the question of the marginal note "Misconduct of notaries public.", a person can be struck off the roll of advocates and solicitors for two reasons. One, for misconduct and, second, where he himself applies to be struck off the roll merely because he does not want his name kept on it. So it would be unfair to such a person who has voluntarily applied to have his name taken off the roll to say that he has committed misconduct. It is with that purpose, Sir, and to make the position absolutely safe from that point of view that I have suggested the marginal title to read "Revocation of appointments." rather than "Misconduct of notaries public.", because a notary public can be struck off the roll not only for misconduct but also because he so wishes it himself.

6.00 p.m.

The Chairman: I might, of course, indicate to hon. Members that the marginal title of any clause is not strictly part of a Bill and, therefore, it is a question of agreement as to what marginal title should be used. Perhaps the Minister will, in due course, inform the House whether he agrees that the marginal title should be amended as suggested. But, as I say, it is not a question for debate. It is a question for agreement.

Coming back to the amendments, it has been moved in page 2, line 26, to leave out "If it shall appear to the Minister that" and insert "Where". The Question is, "That the words proposed to be left out, be left out," and the debate may range over the next amendment.

Mr Byrne: Mr Speaker, Sir, I would say, with respect, that it would be quite unfair of the Member for Farrer Park to want P.A.P. Ministers to be omniscient, wherever other Ministers may be.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the clause requires the Minister to do certain acts under certain circumstances, and in order that he might be able to do those acts, it is necessary that he' should have notice, and quite clearly the words "If it shall appear to the Minister" are important because they indicate that the Minister must have some notice before he is able to act. For that reason, I would submit that it is necessary that those words stand part of the clause.

On the other point which the Member for Farrer Park has raised, the omission to deal with the suspension of practising advocates and solicitors, I will now admit, Sir, that that was an oversight on our part and I am quite prepared to accept that amendment. But in order to give effect to the intention of the second amendment which has been proposed by the Member for Farrer Park, I think, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would have to crave your indulgence and that of the Members of the House to agree to my moving now, without notice, the insertion of the words "suspend or" after the word "hand," in line 4 of clause 5.

On the need to change the wording of the marginal note, I am in complete agreement with what the Member for Farrer Park has said.

Tun Lim Yew Hock: With respect, Sir, I think if the word "suspend" is to be added, it should come after "revoke" in order to have the proper sequence. If a member is struck off, his appointment is revoked. If he is suspended, then he is -

Mr Byrne: Yes, I will agree, Sir.

Mr Rajah: That being so, Mr Speaker, Sir, may I beg leave to withdraw my first amendment, i.e., in page 2, line 26, to leave out "If it shall appear to the Minister that," and insert "Where".

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Chairman: Will the Member for Farrer Park now move the second amendment formally?

Mr Rajah: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

In page 2, line 28, after "Court", to insert "or has been suspended from practising as an advocate and solicitor in Singapore".

Amendment agreed to.

The Chairman: Mr Minister, perhaps we can have the proposed amendment in writing for the record.

Amendment handed in.

The Chairman: Will the Minister again consider that amendment? I do not know whether it will carry out the intention of the Minister. The last part of that clause then would read:

"the Minister shall, by order under his hand, revoke or suspend the appointment of such person".

Is the Minister satisfied?

Mr Byrne: We can suspend that person's appointment, Mr Speaker, Sir. He is still appointed but the appointment is suspended for some time.

The Chairman: There is no question of a certificate being issued on the appointment of a notary public?

Mr Byrne: No.

The Chairman: The Minister then seeks to move an amendment in page 2, line 29, after "revoke" to insert "or suspend". Notice of that amendment is strictly required, but under Standing Order 32, notice may be dispensed with with my consent - I give that consent - and the general assent of Members present. Is it the pleasure of hon. Members that that amendment be moved?

Hon. Members indicated assent.

The Chairman: Perhaps the Minister will now move formally his amendment?

Mr Byrne: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move,

In page 2, line 29, after "revoke", to insert "or suspend".

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 6 to 9 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported with amendments; read the Third time and passed.